Iowa's Christian conservatives follow their faith when voting, and some say it leads them to Trump

girlfreddy@lemmy.ca to News@lemmy.world – 279 points – Iowa's Christian conservatives follow their faith when voting, and some say it leads them to Trump
apnews.com

“We thank you for the upcoming election, Lord — or caucus, as we call it in Iowa,” said Hundley, speaking from the sanctuary of his evangelical Christian church in his slight Texas drawl as his parishioners bowed their heads.

“It doesn’t matter what our opinion is,” he went on. “It’s really what’s your opinion that matters. But you’ve given us the privilege of being able to exercise a beautiful gift. The gift of vote. We thank you for that.”

While Hundley stops short of suggesting to his parishioners which candidate divine guidance should lead them to support, he is among more than 300 pastors and other faith leaders who’ve been described as supporters by former President Donald Trump’s campaign. It’s a message that some members of Hundley’s First Church of God have taken to heart, saying their faith informs their intention to caucus for Trump.

Ron Betts, a 72-year-old Republican who said he plans to caucus for “Trump all the way,” said he felt the former president “exemplified what Jesus would do.”

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"Iowa's conservatives pretend their faith says whatever they feel like when voting, and some say it leads them to Cheetos."

Thou shall licketh the orange from thyne fingers in holy glory, sayeth the Lord.

Ezekiel 29:17

Its because they're Christian Nationalists.

They don't think of it as our country, they think of it as their country that was stolen by secularism and "wokeness." Their version of religion means they must rule at the top of the theocratic hierarchy and force the rest of us to live under a system where women are subservient, sexual minorities are persecuted, and the church writes the law.

And if they successfully turn America into a theocracy then they'll start picking other countries to "liberate" for Jesus.

Not hard to imagine TX sending out "Cruz aides" (say that fast a few times) to spread the love of the Lord. They may need some special inquisitions inquiries to find anyone who undermines their righteous cause.

WWJD?

According to these people He'd lie, cheat, steal and rape his way to power - then He'd con a few people into beating and murdering others while committing insurrection against a democratically-elected gov't.

As a former Christian, I still can't believe how many of these people never even read that book they're so fond of. Not a god damn clue in their heads if they think Trump is anything "Christ like". He does in many ways resemble an anti-christ though, so I could see the Armageddon accelerationists being supporters for their own twisted reasons

Dude, look up Trump + signs of antichrist, its unreal

Seriously. I know that every president has their own laundry list of "OMG signs of the anti-christ"! However, trump is so on point its actually unsettling. Not a whole lot of stretching required for trump to be the legit anti-christ.

The first time I heard the article, I nearly fell off my dinosaur. Like fr

I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. ― Susan B. Anthony

Get fucked religious people, I’m sick of your delusional life. Go somewhere else and fuck it all up, you aren’t wanted here.

Problem is that people can no longer tell the difference between evangelical Christians and the Republican Party. Evangelicals complain that Christians are hated and persecuted. But people don't hate Christians and they certainly don't want to persecute anyone. However, many people hate the Republican Party. And when you can't tell the difference between the Republican Party and evangelicals, they are hit with hate by proxy.

The GOP is a criminal conspiracy to elevate their own figurehead above the reach of politically-actionable law and order. There is no practicable difference between the American Fascist and the partisan Republican. There has not been since the southern strategy. Politicized Christianity is a declaration of intent.

Since you missed it, get fucked christians.

How dare you insult their imaginary friend!

Ask me how many fucks I give. It rhymes with zero.

Ask me how many fucks I give. It rhymes with zero.

Nero? Antihero? Fearow?

Surely you don’t mean “zero,” rhyming a word with itself is just lazy. ;)

You are correct, that is lazy :)

I still give zero fucks about peoples delusions.

Get fucked religious people, I’m sick of your delusional life. Go somewhere else and fuck it all up, you aren’t wanted here.

I actually want all kinds of different people, as diverse perspectives lead to improved outcomes for everyone.

I just want those people to also accept one another.

Plenty of religious people I know actually are kind and generous and accepting. Their religion isn’t a cudgel to be wielded to silence and command those who think differently, but rather a guide and solace for their own lives.

It’s when religion becomes a worship of the religion itself, a veneration of the rules and structure rather than of the beliefs, that it becomes a problem. And unfortunately that’s what we often see in a large portion of religious folks around the world throughout history. Where the religion becomes a tool to control populations, a path to power, a virtue to signal, rather than a living faith.

But I caution you against hatred of religion for its own sake. We must be intolerant of intolerance, but not intolerant of religion itself.

I stand by my comment.

Religious people can get fucked.

Plain and simple. I don’t care about your delusions or perspective because it’s based on false information.

Are American Christians not able to tell the difference between their internal monlogue and divine guidance, or what?

It's crazy how God is always telling these people the things that reinforce their biases and never things like "Go help Habitat For Humanity."

There is no difference. They think there’s a difference. Got it backwards.

Finding a definitive answer on whether or not any god exists is way above most of our pay grades.

But even if I were religious, I don't see myself thinking "maybe chili tonight for dinner?" And responding "okay, thanks God".

We literally have a scene from a children's movie here in Sweden from our famous author Astrid Lindgren where exactly that's the joke, the kid answers their own prayer asking if they can take more cake

There is credible speculation that our internal monologue is what started the idea of God in the first place.

American Evangelicalism is a tulpamancy cult. I was raised Evangelical, sent to a private Evangelical school, and made to attend several Evangelical churches until adulthood. In all of these communities, it was universally believed that God directly speaks to each person through a special voice in their head. I was very strongly pressured to find, listen to, and obey this voice, and made to feel like I was not a "true believer" for being unable to channel it into glossolalia.

Tulpa:

“Modern practitioners, who call themselves "tulpamancers", use the term to refer to a type of willed imaginary friend which practitioners consider to be sentient and relatively independent. Modern practitioners predominantly consider tulpas to be a psychological rather than a paranormal concept. The idea became an important belief in Theosophy.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa

This is a huge point that should be talked about more. Tulpamancy isn't pseudoscience, it's very real and religion, especially Christianity, uses it to great effect. The process of finding and cultivating the "voice of God" is the exact process used to create an intentional tulpa of any number of various other types, there are entire internet communities about it. A little bit of research with this context in mind is extremely eye opening.

They shift attribution depending on whatever is politically convenient. Religion is America's original sin and those traitors know it.

Religion is America’s original sin

It's worse than that. Religion was co-opted into the maintenance of slavery, and it caused schisms in multiple sects, including the Baptists, Presbyterians, and Methodists

Generation after generation, Southern pastors adapted their theology to thrive under a terrorist state. Principled critics were exiled or murdered, leaving voices of dissent few and scattered. Southern Christianity evolved in strange directions under ever-increasing isolation. Preachers learned to tailor their message to protect themselves. If all you knew about Christianity came from a close reading of the New Testament, you’d expect that Christians would be hostile to wealth, emphatic in protection of justice, sympathetic to the point of personal pain toward the sick, persecuted and the migrant, and almost socialist in their economic practices. None of these consistent Christian themes served the interests of slave owners, so pastors could either abandon them, obscure them, or flee.

What developed in the South was a theology carefully tailored to meet the needs of a slave state. Biblical emphasis on social justice was rendered miraculously invisible. A book constructed around the central metaphor of slaves finding their freedom was reinterpreted. Messages which might have questioned the inherent superiority of the white race, constrained the authority of property owners, or inspired some interest in the poor or less fortunate could not be taught from a pulpit. Any Christian suggestion of social justice was carefully and safely relegated to “the sweet by and by” where all would be made right at no cost to white worshippers. In the forge of slavery and Jim Crow, a Christian message of courage, love, compassion, and service to others was burned away.

https://www.politicalorphans.com/the-article-removed-from-forbes-why-white-evangelicalism-is-so-cruel/

That is an amazing read! Thanks for the history lesson!

What a backwards shithole this place sounds like.

If you want Iowa to look neat and logical you'd have to reverse so much of the place it would have to be called 'Awoi'.

Ron Betts, a 72-year-old Republican who said he plans to caucus for “Trump all the way,” said he felt the former president “exemplified what Jesus would do.”

And lo, did our Lord grabbeth Mary Magdalene by the pussy...

This is what bothers me the most. I've heard the "he's an imperfect vessel" before, which is kind of hard to argue with, albeit super convenient that allows you to support whoever you want.

But this? This is just madness. He exemplified what Jesus would do? How did this guy even get himself to this position? What bible is he reading?

If your religion leads you to trump, you need a new religion or no religion at all

This shit is so aggravating, it's like how tf do you interpret the Bible so badly that you wind up following the guy that checks every box for being the antichrist?

It's the same thing with all my fellow veterans who follow Trump, they all claim he's the best leader, yet I and similarly minded veterans have to wonder wtf leadership classes these idiots got that they would think Trump qualifies for any kind of leadership position, because he absolutely does not.

you realize most of these people have never even read the bible, right?

they just like the sense of authority and power claiming faith gives them.

Which is wild because it seems like every former Christian atheist has read that book cover to cover.

They only listen to the "right things" Trump says because they only hear it indirectly from secondhand sources who filter out all the crazy and evil parts. Lots of people hate critical thinking and love being spoonfed what they should do and believe. Ignorance is bliss and they fully embrace it because they hate confrontation, feelings of helplessness, and guilt (if they ever realize they're on the wrong side).

Of course, this doesn't include all Trump voters; this does describe a large portion of the church-goers though, especially the older folk. This is my anecdotal opinion from when I used to regularly attend church a few years ago before I became an atheist. There are a lot of good, but really stupid people in Christian churches who will actively avoid anyone trying to burst their bubble. The only real way to fight it is convince the people feeding them information to change their tune, which is basically impossible. The best you can do is swap them out for new people who aren't intentionally manipulative and misleading. Unfortunately, those kinds of people are naturally attracted to the position due to how trusting the "flock" can be.

I feel like Ron Betts has never actually read any of the Jesus parts of the Bible.

Ron Betts, a 72-year-old Republican who said he plans to caucus for “Trump all the way,” said he felt the former president “exemplified what Jesus would do.”

Nietzche's The Antichrist apparently didn't go hard enough:

One must not let oneself be misled: they say 'Judge not!' but they send to Hell everything that stands in their way.

If you think your faith leads you to Trump, then you've betrayed basically every tenant of your faith to get to that conclusion.

but then again, these people never read their bibles, so they have no idea what their faith actually is besides what the hateful, manipulative and money grubbing preachers spout at them to believe.

Christ does not lead you to Trump, you lying assholes.. your own ego leads you to him.. your love of yourselves is what leads you around by the nose..

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To "follow their faith" they'd have to know what the hell it was. Hypocrites blow in the wind and would call Jesus a "Sociologist/Marxist libcuck" if they saw him in real life. Fucking evil circus.

Honey, it ain’t you faith leading you there. It’s your racism. It always boils down to that one way or another in America.

Neither Donald Trump nor actual conservative politics have any core foundation in the Christian faith.

While it’s cathartic to ridicule fundamentalist Christian’s knowledge of their own faith as the only possible source of such dissonance, I imagine their view of the Great Cheetoh is also very far from reality. It’s not just the Bible they quote as something they don’t know, but the last 8 years of history? Any actual news in that time? Trumps background as a reality show host, but before that decades of questionable real estate fraud?

So how is it possible that they either don’t know or don’t care who Trump has proven himself to be, over and over? How could they have missed so much reality, or willfully ignored the last bright years?

Peer pressure and intentionally not thinking critically. The entire religion self identifies as sheep following a shepherd.

Yet sheep aren’t lemmings. They don’t blindly follow the crowd off a cliff to their doom (urban legend is false though). The shepherd is supposed to guide and protect while still allowing them the freedom to be themselves within the herd

The shepherd is supposed to guide and protect while still allowing them the freedom to be themselves within the herd

Within the bounds of the shepherd's rules. They can't go past the guidelines he sets, and they don't try to. And wouldn't you know it, those guidelines benefit the shepherd more than the sheep.

There are republican operators out there whose sole objective intent based on how they spend their time (I have between 2 and a half and 5% confidence interval) is to transfer blame from political leadership to the electorate. This is how they work.

The bigger problems seem to develop when they substitute a human being for God as the sheppard.

If they just stuck with what Jesus says in the 4 gospels things might not be so bad.

How could they have missed so much reality, or willfully ignored the last bright years?

...fundamentalist Christian...

I think most Christians have lost Christ.

Recently there was an article about a congregation telling their preacher Christ's actual message was "too woke."

When "take the wheel Jesus" affects a whole country and not just one self

"I listen to the voice in my head, and it tells me to vote for the one that promises to fulfil my basest desires."

If your conscience and your religion lead you to an idiotic, misogynic and xenophobic fraud with obvious delusions, you don't actually have the former and the latter is irrepairably broken.

Why are yanks having such a hard time wrapping their heads around the separation of state and church?

They're not yanks, they're southern confederates and they understand the concept well enough to engage in covert, coordinated warfare against it.

If you're American, they're not yanks as they aren't Yankees. But to the rest of us, everyone who is a citizen of the US is a yank, regardless of if they're a Yankee or not. Fair point on the rest though.

First of all they're traitors to yanks, second I'm going with the more specific definition because that's what the word actually means. I'm being a prick about this point on purpose because I sense two opposites being lashed together and they should absolutely not be treated as the same thing when one of them are aspiring fucking traitors.

You can want to be as specific all you want. Doesn't mean the person you initially replied to is wrong, especially given there's a couple of American dictionaries who list that definition. And I'd temper your rhetoric about there being such a divide a bit too, especially when Ohio and Indiana voted for Trump the year he won. Sure seems like there were a bunch of northerners who were thinking along the same lines as those in the south...

Also, no need to apologise for being a prick, you shouldn't give two fucks about what people think of you here. I mean, why should you censor yourself for some randoms who don't know you from a bar of soap? We all have opinions, we should be able to express them how we want. We should also expect criticisms of those opinions though.

it's funny to me as the UK doesn't have separation of church and state and most people think the church is fuckin lame

I thought Church of England was kind of like model railroading. It's a rather niche hobby that no one outside of it really understands. Though unlike model railroading, Church of England was started by divorce, and wasn't the cause.

These are small town yokels. They can't imagine any scenario where they aren't the majority while simultaneously believing that they are the most oppressed group in the history of the world.

Religion is just a cultural affectation. None of these people actually believe in anything outside themselves.

Plus, Trump is a cherub! Micro penis is a total giveaway. He just needs to drop trousers, get the wings and the bow.

These people are fucking hopeless. And almost a third of the US voting population is operating on similar logic. We are so fucked.