What a garbage article. Elon sucks, the cyber truck sucks, but an article about tweets is less than worthless.
Perhaps the article instead of assuming elon just "didn't have time to run tesla properly", should dig a bit deeper and demonstrate that tesla was successful despite elon, not because of elon. Same with Space-X or Star-link.
Now as far as why the cyber truck is getting stuck in snow, tires is the low-effort answer, but maybe look at the weight of the truck versus the contact area. Maybe look at how the traction control system works? How about whether the car is front wheel bias vs rear-wheel biased. Does it make assumptions about which wheels have contact to the ground? Does it have a differential or are all 4 wheels independently controlled? (I don't know the answer to any of these by the way, but if I were concerned about a vehicle getting stuck in the snow, I'd certainly want an analysis that addresses all of the above.)
Welcome to modern “journalism”, throwing together a few sentences based on twitter and reddit posts, without any research or asking experts.
"Another user said...."
It's so ridiculously low quality journalism it's embarrassing
But some online commentators have come to the Cybertruck's rescue by pointing out that the cars being shown didn't have snow tires or snow chains, and it getting stuck may be due to over inflating the tires or driver error.
The part of the truck that touches the roadway is exactly the same design as the part of any other vehicle that touches the roadway.
There's a point to be made about the overlap between the people who want a Cybertruck, and the people who aren't self-sufficient enough to make sure that their vehicle can operate in the winter, but this has no bearing on the merits or not of the Cybertruck as a vehicle.
Also:
"Another storm, another CyberTruck needing a rescue," they wrote. "It's like finding a leprechaun that's constantly getting stuck in a glue trap."
😆
Well, they advertised it as a truck that does truck things...
And the people with them now, ordered years ago.
It all comes back to range, and the range is horrible. So out of the factory they get "fuel efficient" tires that are great for range and terrible for everything else.
Put on truck tires, let alone winter, and range will nosedive.
Not everyone will drive one in snow, but all of the suckers who bought one know the range.
It also weighs way more than a normal truck. I think.
If it does that would help...
Weighing it down gives traction. Hell, most hillbillies load up their truck beds in the winter because the weight is such a big help, especially in the back.
I think I might have heard something about weight distribution though, like a normal truck has an engine over the front, but Tesla's weight is in the middle of the axle.
But this is the tires, and probably something about whatever this things equivalent to a transmission is. Like you only need to put your foot on it a little for normal driving. Which means take offs in snow would almost always spin out.
So like the RPMs of the wheels go up to fast? I think that's the easiest way to say it.
It makes a vehicle seem faster the less you have to push on the gas pedal, it's a pretty old trick, because most people never floor it, so they don't notice halfway thru it stops doing anything.
That makes sense
If the traction control is the same as in the model 3, slipping due to pressing the accelerator too hard shouldn't be a big issue. I can literally floor the accelerator from standstill in the snow and the car barely slips at all and just accelerates slowly until it has better traction (obviously didn't do that on public roads but on private road). It is has way better traction control than my old car had.
I think shitty tires are a more likely culprit.
Lol I used to keep a bale of straw in the bed all winter to get traction. Apparently I'm a hillbilly.
the fact that you just happen to have a bale of straw handy every winter was a clue...
Lol good point
Weight is not as important as weight distribution. And the CT has significantly better weight distribution than any other unloaded truck.
The part of the truck that touches the roadway is exactly the same design as the part of any other vehicle that touches the roadway.
...you mean the tires? No, no it's absolutely not. 😂
I see Jersey schmucks up here with their pavement princess trucks getting stuck in the snow all the time. I see locals in a Corolla or fiesta or other tiny light car make it just fine in deep snow. One of my bosses at the ski mountain used to drive a mini Cooper an hour to work every day.
This is a skill issue.
Also snow tires make a huge difference in the snow
I used to have an old Subaru (Leone, 83).
I could get it anywhere in the snow. It was so easy to drive. It had absolute pizza cutters for tyres.
Once drove up to a ski field without chains on. Was one of only 7 cars to make it to the top (with zero issues) because there was so much snow.
Was a blast to drive.
Skinnier tires are actually better in snow because they can dig down to the ground somewhat and find traction there. Wide tires tend to float on top of the snow because of the larger contract patch (but not enough to stay above it, that requires huge, under-inflated-balloon-like tires like what you'd need on an antarctic expedition)
One of the most satisfying things for me is driving my wife's little Mirage in the snow. With normal all season tires it does great, with proper snow tires it's completely unstoppable - that is, until you need to stop.
It turns out that accelrating and stopping a 2,000 pound car on ice and snow is easier than it is with a 4,000 pound vehicle.
Nah it's more of a weight distribution issue. Pickup trucks in general are terrible at this. Engine, cab, transmission, basically everything is over the front axle but they are rear wheel drive.
Cybertruck doesn't have this problem.
Growing up my mom lived on one of the biggest hills in a town that was basically all hills. She remembers when it snowed they'd watch all kinds of cars and trucks get stuck trying to make it up that hill, and then watch a guy in a little VW beetle go right up the hill like it was nothing, perfectly happy will of that engine weight right over the rear drive wheels.
Years later I'm a new driver borrowing my parents's cars, a '93 RWD ranger, and a '92 Buick century, and that comparison did a good job of driving home how much difference that weight distribution matters. The ranger had some pretty good grippy tires, but without any weight in the bed, it didn't take much to make those wheels spin. The buick, on the other hand, handled snow beautifully, it had all the weight of that big boat-like front end over those front drive wheels, never once struggled to find traction, the only limiting factor was that it sat pretty low to the ground so it didn't take too much snow before that front end was just trying it's damnedest to plow through snow. If some mad scientist ever thought to lift an old Buick a few inches, I'm pretty confident that 4wd/AWD would become all but obsolete.
skill? sometimes. the fact that those corollas and mini coopers only weigh a fraction of those huge trucks probably has something to do with it, too...
Weight and weight distribution are both important, but a pickup will usually perform better in snow with more weight, like 500 lbs of sand in the bed usually does the trick.
How you apply power to the road surface is also very important. Not enough weight and you will just spin tires. Break too aggressively and you lock up. Pedal to the floor and your tires are spinning. Overcorrect your turns when you start to slide and you'll never get back straight.
My car is a little older and actually drives better in snow with the traction control off.
Big trucks aren't necessarily all that heavy. The bed is entirely empty space, remember.
The bed is entirely empty space, remember.
but they have much larger, heavier engines and drivetrains.
a ford f-150 weighs about 4,500 lbs (minimum). a dodge ram weighs about 4,750 lbs (minimum)-- these are without any outrigging which can almost double the weight.
a corolla and a mini weigh about 3,000 lbs. a ford fiesta weighs about 2,750 lbs.
those are pretty big differences (to start) which can get bigger depending on the configuration of the truck.
Huh.. That's interesting. My Nissan Navara (Frontier) weights 4400lbs despite being half the size of an F-150.
And increasingly a smaller and smaller portion of the overall composition of the truck.
It just means even more weight is on the front tires instead of being more evenly distributed.
I think the cybertruck is super heavy, though.
They are heavy but the weight distribution isn't even and most trucks are 4x4/RWD which is what leads to the issues you're alluding to. The rear tires can't propel the vehicle because there's not enough weight over them in the rear compared to the weight of the front.
Egh, looks like the facebook crowd has come to Lemmy.
Wrong tires.. It's that simple..
I hate Elon as much as the rest of us, but this reads like it's written by the Anti-EV crowd. All it needs is an ad for a Dodge RAM at the bottom.. And, I don't particularly find the cybertruck (or any large truck), appealing at all tbh
I can put the wrong tires on my jeep too, and skid off the road when its wet.. Not everywhere needs snow tyres (here in Australia, they would be useless), and I'd be guessing they're less efficient too?
Also, I'm not really sure how it works with deep snow (since I'm here in Australia), but wouldn't snowchains help as an alternative? Or can you not use them on EV's?.. Or do they not work with deep snow?
Chains are only useful if there’s snow compacted onto the road (like in a lot of mountainous areas). Winter tires are useful because they stay softer in cold weather, while summer tires get hard as a rock below a certain temp, turning your car (or cybertruck in this case) into a sled. There are also studded snow tires, but they’re useless or even dangerous on roads with no snow.
Yeah ok.. So, there isn't really much that could be done in this case except use Winter tyres anyway? If so, that makes this article seem even more silly I'm guessing?
Without knowing specifics about the cybertruck, it’s hard to say. Another factor could be that the tires are too wide, which would prevent them from cutting through the snow to make contact with the road. There could be other factors, like traction control freaking out and locking up the wheels, AWD issues, driver error. I just don’t know enough about the CT to make an educated guess. Tires are probably the most common reason for something like this though.
Not anti-EV crowd, just anti-Elon. I hate him as much as anyone else but people just throw absolutely any rationale out the window when it comes to anything he's involved with (especially around here).
I've seen several leftists at this point straight up turn their backs on EVs and literally start parroting conservative propaganda about them. So sad.
If you are leftist you should be anti-ev. All EVs do is propagate car-centric social development which is a cancer to any potentially better world.
If you want to be anti-car, that's an entirely different discussion from anti-EV.
Disagree. EVs only environmental advantage is tail-pipe emissions. But they are significantly worse for society then tail-pipe emissions are. Being heavier damages the road more, and causes more tire and brake wear. Proprietary batteries mean that they are thrown away more often then gas cars. More limited range means that more car infrastrucutre is required to support them.
At the end of the day, the limited-taxes we have in the US that discourage driving, EVs are allowed to side-step, so from a societal point of view, EVs are absolutely worse in everyway (except trivial tail-pipe emissions). If you are a leftist who has to drive a car, an EV wouldn't even be a viable option. You'd be better off in a hybrid.
EVs only environmental advantage is tail-pipe emissions.
Thank you for making my point. That's exactly the type of conservative parroting I was referring to and it's absolutely not true. Good job 👍
Have you read about the actual environmental costs and material extraction needed for electric cars? EVs are about saving the auto industry when gas runs out. Not about saving the environment.
The conservative parroting usually takes a sliver of truth and runs with it while tacking on other bullshit to make it seem legit. The "anything to own the libs" is part of that dogma, but pushing a con is easier with a twisted truth to lead the bigger lies.
No sense in rehashing this discussion for the 87297368th time, here's a fun video you can watch to learn more:
It literally is though. They are worse in every single other way including the people that defend them.
EV's can also act as a VPP and feed power back into the grid too, stabilising it. Yeah.. Those blackouts you guys claim are ALWAYS coming? EV's can actually help with that..
Also, Sodium Ion Batteries just got released, which is a huge step up (more environmentally friendly), and Solid State batteries are getting closer and closer.
Also, batteries get recycled. So yes, those big heavy batteries, are reused, by future batteries (which are likely more efficient). We're only at the start of Lithium batteries too. Lithium air has made huge developments recently. lithium Air is 5000-11000Wh/kg vs Lithium Ion 300wh/kg. So, with the same weight, that means a future Lithium air based car could have 16x-30x more range (and we have plenty of lithium here in Australia). Or, 16x smaller batteries (which due to lower curb weight, would be amazingly efficient). And, future EV's will likely be more modular too
Unless you're proposing I ride my bike 60km per day for work? I also do lots of hiking, so, do you propose they run a trainline to the middle of forests? Or do I not hike anymore?
But judging by the fact you have posts unhappy with the Nazi salute being declared illegal, I'm going to say this is typical right-wing facebook BS
You are the dumbest person I've seen post today.
re: nazi salute, you don't understand the purpose of the legislation, it has nothing to do with "nazis," it's purpose is to silence dissent, the nazi excuse is so sheeple like you support it unconditionally.
Similar to EVs. Their purpose is to ensure car development can continue and idiots like you don't realize that the problem with cars has nothing to do with what powers them. Why do you think you live 60km away from work with no public transit? Because cars force you to.
I live in Australia where they were banned. There were literally neo Nazis publicly being Nazis trying to make others feel unwelcome and feel like they were in danger. Nazi symbols have been banned in Germany for ages (which should tell you something). If you want to make up some weird conspiracy theory like they're playing 4d chess, good for you. People like me also got sick of reporting Nazi shit to councils after they took pt to get home and acted like hateful dickheads. I guess you want to keep burning crosses and the kkk legal too eh? Guys like me get sick of removing Nazi stickers though
The location where I live has nothing to do with cars. Work is located in a more expensive place to live. And even if I move, should I tell my family I can't see them anymore because they don't live close enough to me?
Again, I do hiking (I actually operate a hiking group). You've skipped that comment because your argument doesn't sound great when you start telling people they can't go outdoors anymore.
The problem with cars isn't that they exist. It's that too many clowns are buying big cars they don't need, and they need to be designed to be more repairable/modular. More public transport is definitely needed though, and more density of population.. But some people like me (even ignoring work) will continue to need a vehicle to get around. I also think emergency services will be more efficient with a car eh
Battery technology will rapidly catch up. The first big changes have already just come (sodium ion) which is already a step forward. If lithium air happens, it will be a game changer
Also, I received an award for graduating top 5 people in state in one of my high school subjects.. So honestly, I suspect I'm not a total idiot like you claim.
Tires may be part of the equation, but ground clearance is typically more important to avoiding getting stuck in the snow.
Definitely important, but in my experience with good tires and patience you can basically plow the snow out of the way
Getting enough snow jammed under a vehicle will high-center the vehicle. If the tires can't touch the ground,it doesn't matter how good they are.
Good tires prevent you from sinking down into the snow in the first place. You can have 5 feet of ground clearance but that doesn't help you in 6 feet of snow.
It's also really heavy. I have a crosstrek and even with all seasons on I'm getting up that driveway in the video with no problems at all.
I imagine deep snow is very similar to sand where you want the largest contact patch possible in order to float on the surface. Here we have some dunes that you can offroad in and tour companies take busses full of people out there but they use gigantic tires that look like donut shaped balloons and perform decently even though they're low powered and incredibly heavy.
They set out to make the truck version of the Delorean and succeeded.
How do we know it is? I suspect all photos of the thing are AI-generated deepfakes. 😜
I've seen them in the wild, I live in the bay area. They look worse than in the pictures. The brushed steel catches every speck of dirt and oil. It's like they're driving a damn crock-pot.
The engineers unironically ask themselves the same question. None of them wanted to do the project
All seasons with a tiny sidewall = bad news pretty much anywhere but pavement.
Although I do think Tesla needs to work on their traction control system to better mimic having locked differentials after seeing the hill climb video from a few weeks ago. This should be able to be performed via an OTA update though.
Probably bad tires to be honest.
Bad tires for a hideous truck: a loosing recipe.
Too bad the tires are tied to the wheel and can't just be exchanged
they aren't tied to the wheel, just the hubcaps. If you want to run it without the hubcaps, you can put whatever tire you want on it.
if only they used something sensible like nuts and bolts to secure them. something which could be easily unscrewed...
They do but the tires are specifically made for Cybertruck and the hubcaps lock in with the tire. If you buy a different set of tires they fit the wheels just fine but the hubcaps no longer do. It just affect aesthetics and probably aerodynamics.
Really?! That is so more shittier than I thought!
And actual human beings purchased those things?
What, pray tell, are you talking about?
Mighty? It was a joke from the start. The only reason for buying it is a novelty for collectors. I don't think it was ever meant to be driven.
I thought it was sarcasm but then i saw the name of the website
Truck built for truck things fails at truck things
Could we assume that if you're stupid enough to buy that ghastly monstrosity, you're probably not a very good driver either?
I remember MKBHD made a comment about the snow possibly being an issue opening the doors as well. Hoping these things were actually tested in super cold conditions
Tesla and tested?
That's what "launch edition" Teslas are for.
Tesla claims they've tested it with 3/4 inches of ice and should work on an inch. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough either way
Maybe if it didn't weigh 3 tons...
Weight is actually a good thing in the snow. Too light of a vehicle and it's hard to get any traction without something like tracks.
The struggling in the snow is most likely an issue of tires. If someone put some all terrain or ideally snow tires, I'm sure it'd do significantly better.
But it can't afford to run less efficient tires because it has too much air resistance and the range would suffer. There's a reason why other Teslas have no flat panels or straight lines.
It's a 100,000 vehicle with plastic hubcaps.
I don't disagree with that at all, it's a dumb vehicle no matter how you slice it and this debacle only furthers the proof. If it needs low rolling resistance, highway tires, then it's just a street queen for elon fanboys.
Most SUVs and Trucks now are pavement princesses. I respect the hell out of people who buy minivans now.
Weight is actually a good thing in the snow. Too light of a vehicle and it's hard to get any traction without something like tracks.
Weight alone doesn't help. It matters where the weight is. On a rear wheel drive vehicle it absolutely does help with traction and handling if you add more weight on the rear axle. People have been hauling sandbags on their truck beds/trunks in the winter for ages for a good reason.
Adding more weight only helps if you put it in the back. Takes those sandbags and slap them on the hood and you'll just make it worse. You need them over the drive wheels.
Who would have guessed that an offroad vehicle designed in socal only works on bare, dry, triassic limestone.
Holy shit that thing is ugly..
Remember how well the Delorian didn't do? Mush has one that's going to do 1,000 times worse. Way to go boy genius.
The Delorean might've been fine if they hadn't tried to build it in Northern Ireland during the Troubles and if John Delorean hadn't been entrapped with drug trafficking charges. Musk doesn't have those excuses.
No, he doesn't. I'd say his being in the right place at the right time streak is nearing an end.
There is not a single good thing about the Cybertruck.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Tesla touts that its Cybertruck is "durable and rugged enough to go anywhere" on its website, but apparently snow may be its kryptonite after numerous online videos and pictures have showed the electric vehicle getting stuck in typical wintery conditions.
An Instagram user posted a video of a Cybertruck slipping and getting stuck in about four inches of snow in an unspecified location.
"There's literally a sedan like thirty feet ahead of it that made it all the way to a parking space," joked podcaster and journalist Robert Evans.
And back in December, a TikTok video also showed a stuck Cybertruck being pulled up by a sports utility vehicle on a slight incline of snow and ice.
All this content showing its performance in real-world conditions doesn't bode well for a vehicle that's being hyped as the next big thing in the lucrative consumer truck sector.
Regardless, the news doesn't come at a good time for Tesla's Cybertruck, which has had to contend with range and quality control issues, in addition to numerous delays and production problems.
The original article contains 388 words, the summary contains 176 words. Saved 55%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Shitty truck performs shittily.
Fixed their headline.
Several comments about tires being the issue. I've driven through worse with a simple set of all-seasons - is there something special about EV tires that make them perform so poorly in these conditions?
Low rolling resistance tires tend to be not very great in snow. They get that low rolling resistance partly by not having a very sticky compound, and partly by not having a very aggressive tread pattern (among other things, I'm sure). Both of those factors are going to have an impact on traction on anything but dry pavement.
It might also be due to other design choices. I've got a 2015 Ford Fusion PHEV, and I had a 2013 Fusion Hybrid before that; they suck so bad in the snow with normal all-season tires that I have to keep a finger on the electric parking brake switch to make sure I can stop if there's any snow on the ground.
I bet it has traction control which is great in wet conditions, and light snow. Get over 5" of snow and traction control is worthless if you start to get stuck.
So apparently after a quick search, I found that the truck does indeed have traction control, and it's buried somewhere in a submenu of it's touch screen controls. So I bet more than likely stuff like this is happening because the controls are not easily found and readily available to turn off when you need it.
Hell on my Jetta it's on the panel by the emergency brake. Easy to find and turn off.
Hubris?
I’ve driven through worse in a 1980s manual pickup with bald tires. It wasn’t pretty driving, but the truck didn’t get stuck either.
Edit: Not that I'm trying to show bravado or anything. Whole state was closed down in a state of emergency and my retail boss said I had to come in, and in 'mericuh you can't lose your job! Kudos all go to the bald tire truck. Nobody should ever try this.
You drove through this same location...? On the same day...? In a comparable pickup truck?
I'm curious if this is a "Cyber Truck" issue or an electric vehicle / drive train issue. I mean, do the electric motors in these vehicles have "gears"?
It's the tires
The harder and small the tire, the better the range.
Good truck/snow tires are huge and a little flat, pretty much the opposite.
They likely switched tires last minute to try and hide the horrible range
I have a different electric truck with 21" tires, and it does fine in the snow. It even has a snow mode. The weight might make it even better than some pickups.
This is the tires or something else with the design, for sure.
Technically they have gears, but not as you normally think of gears.
In my opinion, Partially it's an electric vehicle thing (lots of torque) and partially it's a software thing (wheel slip and torque control algorithms)
The suspension design and tire size choice could affect this as well, but not as much in my opinion as the previous points.
If you're driving in the snow you don't want a lot of torque starting out. When I'd drive a manual transmission I'd start off in 2nd rather than 1st for this reason.
Electric motors are famous for having maximum torque instantly, so unless it's got an accurate wheel slip sensor it will apply too much torque and just spin.
Then there's the problem of it being super heavy. The best car I ever drove in the snow was a Scion xA. It was so light it would float above any accumulation. My motor scooter was even better.
Tesla has excellent wheel slip controls, that is why the Plaid can accelerate like it does on the street. I am certain the issue is driver skill and tires, but mostly driver skill.
These trucks are really heavy, being made out of metal. Google says 6600-6800lbs while a F150 is 4200-5700 lbs
No idea on the drive train, would be interesting to see though!
mostly seems like a tire issue. These things come with all seasons made for fuel efficiency, not traction.
No, but why would „gears“ make any difference?
If you're starting off in slippery conditions is good to start in a higher gear so there's less torque and you don't exceed the lower amount of friction with the road surface.
It's quite a bit different for electric motors because they don't have the same power band that ICE have.
Electric motors deliver maximum torque at 0rpm.
With electric vehicles, you really just have to rely on driver skill and automatic traction control.
Gearing won't help you.
It's not an electric vehicle thing... Plenty of other EVs do fine in the snow. Mine even has a snow drive mode and it does pretty great on all season tires.
Get some good snow tire on one, maybe with a 2" suspension lift, in 4X4 mode then see how a Cybertruck handles snow
Snow is 90% about tires. Proper snow tires make a dramatic difference. I'm sure any other truck would get stuck in the same place. They have MUCH poorer weight distribution.
Lol no, I drive a 2011 GMC Serria 2500HD in rural Michigan, USA and my truck would have no problem going up that. In fact my driveway goes up a hill that is far taller than the one shown and most of the time I don't even have to turn on 4 wheel drive. I don't even have snow tires as my all terrains work just fine (as a former autotech I do highly recommend snow tires though). For the weight distribution, yes, but that's also why we throw weight in the bed over the rear axle which solves that real easy.
The problem with the cyber truck is it was designed by people who don't use trucks for a techbro demographic who don't need trucks.
There's no way you can know that.
From another thread on this topic, I've learned that apparently the cybertruck uses custom tires that are the only ones that fit on the stock wheels. In other words, if you want tires that function properly in the snow you've got to replace the wheels themselves, too.
If you're getting a separate set of winter tires you're going to need another set of wheels anyway. I mean you could have them switched to the same wheels and be rebalanced twice a year but I don't know anyone who does that. Here everyone simply just has two sets of wheels.
I mean, it's a large American pickup truck. We all know that it's only a matter of time before those rims are replaced with polished aluminum trashcans
What a garbage article. Elon sucks, the cyber truck sucks, but an article about tweets is less than worthless. Perhaps the article instead of assuming elon just "didn't have time to run tesla properly", should dig a bit deeper and demonstrate that tesla was successful despite elon, not because of elon. Same with Space-X or Star-link.
Now as far as why the cyber truck is getting stuck in snow, tires is the low-effort answer, but maybe look at the weight of the truck versus the contact area. Maybe look at how the traction control system works? How about whether the car is front wheel bias vs rear-wheel biased. Does it make assumptions about which wheels have contact to the ground? Does it have a differential or are all 4 wheels independently controlled? (I don't know the answer to any of these by the way, but if I were concerned about a vehicle getting stuck in the snow, I'd certainly want an analysis that addresses all of the above.)
Welcome to modern “journalism”, throwing together a few sentences based on twitter and reddit posts, without any research or asking experts.
"Another user said...."
It's so ridiculously low quality journalism it's embarrassing
The part of the truck that touches the roadway is exactly the same design as the part of any other vehicle that touches the roadway.
There's a point to be made about the overlap between the people who want a Cybertruck, and the people who aren't self-sufficient enough to make sure that their vehicle can operate in the winter, but this has no bearing on the merits or not of the Cybertruck as a vehicle.
Also:
😆
Well, they advertised it as a truck that does truck things...
And the people with them now, ordered years ago.
It all comes back to range, and the range is horrible. So out of the factory they get "fuel efficient" tires that are great for range and terrible for everything else.
Put on truck tires, let alone winter, and range will nosedive.
Not everyone will drive one in snow, but all of the suckers who bought one know the range.
It also weighs way more than a normal truck. I think.
If it does that would help...
Weighing it down gives traction. Hell, most hillbillies load up their truck beds in the winter because the weight is such a big help, especially in the back.
I think I might have heard something about weight distribution though, like a normal truck has an engine over the front, but Tesla's weight is in the middle of the axle.
But this is the tires, and probably something about whatever this things equivalent to a transmission is. Like you only need to put your foot on it a little for normal driving. Which means take offs in snow would almost always spin out.
So like the RPMs of the wheels go up to fast? I think that's the easiest way to say it.
It makes a vehicle seem faster the less you have to push on the gas pedal, it's a pretty old trick, because most people never floor it, so they don't notice halfway thru it stops doing anything.
That makes sense
If the traction control is the same as in the model 3, slipping due to pressing the accelerator too hard shouldn't be a big issue. I can literally floor the accelerator from standstill in the snow and the car barely slips at all and just accelerates slowly until it has better traction (obviously didn't do that on public roads but on private road). It is has way better traction control than my old car had.
I think shitty tires are a more likely culprit.
Lol I used to keep a bale of straw in the bed all winter to get traction. Apparently I'm a hillbilly.
the fact that you just happen to have a bale of straw handy every winter was a clue...
Lol good point
Weight is not as important as weight distribution. And the CT has significantly better weight distribution than any other unloaded truck.
...you mean the tires? No, no it's absolutely not. 😂
I see Jersey schmucks up here with their pavement princess trucks getting stuck in the snow all the time. I see locals in a Corolla or fiesta or other tiny light car make it just fine in deep snow. One of my bosses at the ski mountain used to drive a mini Cooper an hour to work every day.
This is a skill issue.
Also snow tires make a huge difference in the snow
I used to have an old Subaru (Leone, 83).
I could get it anywhere in the snow. It was so easy to drive. It had absolute pizza cutters for tyres.
Once drove up to a ski field without chains on. Was one of only 7 cars to make it to the top (with zero issues) because there was so much snow.
Was a blast to drive.
Skinnier tires are actually better in snow because they can dig down to the ground somewhat and find traction there. Wide tires tend to float on top of the snow because of the larger contract patch (but not enough to stay above it, that requires huge, under-inflated-balloon-like tires like what you'd need on an antarctic expedition)
One of the most satisfying things for me is driving my wife's little Mirage in the snow. With normal all season tires it does great, with proper snow tires it's completely unstoppable - that is, until you need to stop.
It turns out that accelrating and stopping a 2,000 pound car on ice and snow is easier than it is with a 4,000 pound vehicle.
Nah it's more of a weight distribution issue. Pickup trucks in general are terrible at this. Engine, cab, transmission, basically everything is over the front axle but they are rear wheel drive.
Cybertruck doesn't have this problem.
Growing up my mom lived on one of the biggest hills in a town that was basically all hills. She remembers when it snowed they'd watch all kinds of cars and trucks get stuck trying to make it up that hill, and then watch a guy in a little VW beetle go right up the hill like it was nothing, perfectly happy will of that engine weight right over the rear drive wheels.
Years later I'm a new driver borrowing my parents's cars, a '93 RWD ranger, and a '92 Buick century, and that comparison did a good job of driving home how much difference that weight distribution matters. The ranger had some pretty good grippy tires, but without any weight in the bed, it didn't take much to make those wheels spin. The buick, on the other hand, handled snow beautifully, it had all the weight of that big boat-like front end over those front drive wheels, never once struggled to find traction, the only limiting factor was that it sat pretty low to the ground so it didn't take too much snow before that front end was just trying it's damnedest to plow through snow. If some mad scientist ever thought to lift an old Buick a few inches, I'm pretty confident that 4wd/AWD would become all but obsolete.
skill? sometimes. the fact that those corollas and mini coopers only weigh a fraction of those huge trucks probably has something to do with it, too...
Weight and weight distribution are both important, but a pickup will usually perform better in snow with more weight, like 500 lbs of sand in the bed usually does the trick.
How you apply power to the road surface is also very important. Not enough weight and you will just spin tires. Break too aggressively and you lock up. Pedal to the floor and your tires are spinning. Overcorrect your turns when you start to slide and you'll never get back straight.
My car is a little older and actually drives better in snow with the traction control off.
Big trucks aren't necessarily all that heavy. The bed is entirely empty space, remember.
but they have much larger, heavier engines and drivetrains.
a ford f-150 weighs about 4,500 lbs (minimum). a dodge ram weighs about 4,750 lbs (minimum)-- these are without any outrigging which can almost double the weight.
a corolla and a mini weigh about 3,000 lbs. a ford fiesta weighs about 2,750 lbs.
those are pretty big differences (to start) which can get bigger depending on the configuration of the truck.
Huh.. That's interesting. My Nissan Navara (Frontier) weights 4400lbs despite being half the size of an F-150.
And increasingly a smaller and smaller portion of the overall composition of the truck.
It just means even more weight is on the front tires instead of being more evenly distributed.
I think the cybertruck is super heavy, though.
They are heavy but the weight distribution isn't even and most trucks are 4x4/RWD which is what leads to the issues you're alluding to. The rear tires can't propel the vehicle because there's not enough weight over them in the rear compared to the weight of the front.
Egh, looks like the facebook crowd has come to Lemmy.
Wrong tires.. It's that simple..
I hate Elon as much as the rest of us, but this reads like it's written by the Anti-EV crowd. All it needs is an ad for a Dodge RAM at the bottom.. And, I don't particularly find the cybertruck (or any large truck), appealing at all tbh
I can put the wrong tires on my jeep too, and skid off the road when its wet.. Not everywhere needs snow tyres (here in Australia, they would be useless), and I'd be guessing they're less efficient too?
Also, I'm not really sure how it works with deep snow (since I'm here in Australia), but wouldn't snowchains help as an alternative? Or can you not use them on EV's?.. Or do they not work with deep snow?
Chains are only useful if there’s snow compacted onto the road (like in a lot of mountainous areas). Winter tires are useful because they stay softer in cold weather, while summer tires get hard as a rock below a certain temp, turning your car (or cybertruck in this case) into a sled. There are also studded snow tires, but they’re useless or even dangerous on roads with no snow.
Yeah ok.. So, there isn't really much that could be done in this case except use Winter tyres anyway? If so, that makes this article seem even more silly I'm guessing?
Without knowing specifics about the cybertruck, it’s hard to say. Another factor could be that the tires are too wide, which would prevent them from cutting through the snow to make contact with the road. There could be other factors, like traction control freaking out and locking up the wheels, AWD issues, driver error. I just don’t know enough about the CT to make an educated guess. Tires are probably the most common reason for something like this though.
Not anti-EV crowd, just anti-Elon. I hate him as much as anyone else but people just throw absolutely any rationale out the window when it comes to anything he's involved with (especially around here).
I've seen several leftists at this point straight up turn their backs on EVs and literally start parroting conservative propaganda about them. So sad.
If you are leftist you should be anti-ev. All EVs do is propagate car-centric social development which is a cancer to any potentially better world.
If you want to be anti-car, that's an entirely different discussion from anti-EV.
Disagree. EVs only environmental advantage is tail-pipe emissions. But they are significantly worse for society then tail-pipe emissions are. Being heavier damages the road more, and causes more tire and brake wear. Proprietary batteries mean that they are thrown away more often then gas cars. More limited range means that more car infrastrucutre is required to support them.
At the end of the day, the limited-taxes we have in the US that discourage driving, EVs are allowed to side-step, so from a societal point of view, EVs are absolutely worse in everyway (except trivial tail-pipe emissions). If you are a leftist who has to drive a car, an EV wouldn't even be a viable option. You'd be better off in a hybrid.
Thank you for making my point. That's exactly the type of conservative parroting I was referring to and it's absolutely not true. Good job 👍
Have you read about the actual environmental costs and material extraction needed for electric cars? EVs are about saving the auto industry when gas runs out. Not about saving the environment.
The conservative parroting usually takes a sliver of truth and runs with it while tacking on other bullshit to make it seem legit. The "anything to own the libs" is part of that dogma, but pushing a con is easier with a twisted truth to lead the bigger lies.
No sense in rehashing this discussion for the 87297368th time, here's a fun video you can watch to learn more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2IKCdnzl5k
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=L2IKCdnzl5k
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I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
It literally is though. They are worse in every single other way including the people that defend them.
EV's can also act as a VPP and feed power back into the grid too, stabilising it. Yeah.. Those blackouts you guys claim are ALWAYS coming? EV's can actually help with that..
Also, Sodium Ion Batteries just got released, which is a huge step up (more environmentally friendly), and Solid State batteries are getting closer and closer.
Also, batteries get recycled. So yes, those big heavy batteries, are reused, by future batteries (which are likely more efficient). We're only at the start of Lithium batteries too. Lithium air has made huge developments recently. lithium Air is 5000-11000Wh/kg vs Lithium Ion 300wh/kg. So, with the same weight, that means a future Lithium air based car could have 16x-30x more range (and we have plenty of lithium here in Australia). Or, 16x smaller batteries (which due to lower curb weight, would be amazingly efficient). And, future EV's will likely be more modular too
Unless you're proposing I ride my bike 60km per day for work? I also do lots of hiking, so, do you propose they run a trainline to the middle of forests? Or do I not hike anymore?
But judging by the fact you have posts unhappy with the Nazi salute being declared illegal, I'm going to say this is typical right-wing facebook BS
You are the dumbest person I've seen post today.
re: nazi salute, you don't understand the purpose of the legislation, it has nothing to do with "nazis," it's purpose is to silence dissent, the nazi excuse is so sheeple like you support it unconditionally.
Similar to EVs. Their purpose is to ensure car development can continue and idiots like you don't realize that the problem with cars has nothing to do with what powers them. Why do you think you live 60km away from work with no public transit? Because cars force you to.
I live in Australia where they were banned. There were literally neo Nazis publicly being Nazis trying to make others feel unwelcome and feel like they were in danger. Nazi symbols have been banned in Germany for ages (which should tell you something). If you want to make up some weird conspiracy theory like they're playing 4d chess, good for you. People like me also got sick of reporting Nazi shit to councils after they took pt to get home and acted like hateful dickheads. I guess you want to keep burning crosses and the kkk legal too eh? Guys like me get sick of removing Nazi stickers though
The location where I live has nothing to do with cars. Work is located in a more expensive place to live. And even if I move, should I tell my family I can't see them anymore because they don't live close enough to me?
Again, I do hiking (I actually operate a hiking group). You've skipped that comment because your argument doesn't sound great when you start telling people they can't go outdoors anymore.
The problem with cars isn't that they exist. It's that too many clowns are buying big cars they don't need, and they need to be designed to be more repairable/modular. More public transport is definitely needed though, and more density of population.. But some people like me (even ignoring work) will continue to need a vehicle to get around. I also think emergency services will be more efficient with a car eh
Battery technology will rapidly catch up. The first big changes have already just come (sodium ion) which is already a step forward. If lithium air happens, it will be a game changer
Also, I received an award for graduating top 5 people in state in one of my high school subjects.. So honestly, I suspect I'm not a total idiot like you claim.
Tires may be part of the equation, but ground clearance is typically more important to avoiding getting stuck in the snow.
Definitely important, but in my experience with good tires and patience you can basically plow the snow out of the way
Getting enough snow jammed under a vehicle will high-center the vehicle. If the tires can't touch the ground,it doesn't matter how good they are.
Good tires prevent you from sinking down into the snow in the first place. You can have 5 feet of ground clearance but that doesn't help you in 6 feet of snow.
It's also really heavy. I have a crosstrek and even with all seasons on I'm getting up that driveway in the video with no problems at all.
I imagine deep snow is very similar to sand where you want the largest contact patch possible in order to float on the surface. Here we have some dunes that you can offroad in and tour companies take busses full of people out there but they use gigantic tires that look like donut shaped balloons and perform decently even though they're low powered and incredibly heavy.
I’d feel like such an asshole driving one of these things. If someone gave me one for free, I wouldn’t even want to park it in front of my house.
Sell it for some extra cash.
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
How is this thing still real?
They set out to make the truck version of the Delorean and succeeded.
How do we know it is? I suspect all photos of the thing are AI-generated deepfakes. 😜
I've seen them in the wild, I live in the bay area. They look worse than in the pictures. The brushed steel catches every speck of dirt and oil. It's like they're driving a damn crock-pot.
The engineers unironically ask themselves the same question. None of them wanted to do the project
https://futurism.com/the-byte/tesla-engineers-cybertruck-secret-design
I don't know, it don't even support to wash it.
All season tires in snow = a terrible time
All seasons with a tiny sidewall = bad news pretty much anywhere but pavement.
Although I do think Tesla needs to work on their traction control system to better mimic having locked differentials after seeing the hill climb video from a few weeks ago. This should be able to be performed via an OTA update though.
Probably bad tires to be honest. Bad tires for a hideous truck: a loosing recipe.
Too bad the tires are tied to the wheel and can't just be exchanged
they aren't tied to the wheel, just the hubcaps. If you want to run it without the hubcaps, you can put whatever tire you want on it.
if only they used something sensible like nuts and bolts to secure them. something which could be easily unscrewed...
They do but the tires are specifically made for Cybertruck and the hubcaps lock in with the tire. If you buy a different set of tires they fit the wheels just fine but the hubcaps no longer do. It just affect aesthetics and probably aerodynamics.
Really?! That is so more shittier than I thought!
And actual human beings purchased those things?
What, pray tell, are you talking about?
Mighty? It was a joke from the start. The only reason for buying it is a novelty for collectors. I don't think it was ever meant to be driven.
I thought it was sarcasm but then i saw the name of the website
Truck built for truck things fails at truck things
Could we assume that if you're stupid enough to buy that ghastly monstrosity, you're probably not a very good driver either?
I remember MKBHD made a comment about the snow possibly being an issue opening the doors as well. Hoping these things were actually tested in super cold conditions
Tesla and tested?
That's what "launch edition" Teslas are for.
Tesla claims they've tested it with 3/4 inches of ice and should work on an inch. I'm sure we'll find out soon enough either way
Maybe if it didn't weigh 3 tons...
Weight is actually a good thing in the snow. Too light of a vehicle and it's hard to get any traction without something like tracks.
The struggling in the snow is most likely an issue of tires. If someone put some all terrain or ideally snow tires, I'm sure it'd do significantly better.
But it can't afford to run less efficient tires because it has too much air resistance and the range would suffer. There's a reason why other Teslas have no flat panels or straight lines.
It's a 100,000 vehicle with plastic hubcaps.
I don't disagree with that at all, it's a dumb vehicle no matter how you slice it and this debacle only furthers the proof. If it needs low rolling resistance, highway tires, then it's just a street queen for elon fanboys.
Most SUVs and Trucks now are pavement princesses. I respect the hell out of people who buy minivans now.
Absolutely not true. @6:30
Weight alone doesn't help. It matters where the weight is. On a rear wheel drive vehicle it absolutely does help with traction and handling if you add more weight on the rear axle. People have been hauling sandbags on their truck beds/trunks in the winter for ages for a good reason.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
absolutely does help
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Yes that's what I said, thank you.
Adding more weight only helps if you put it in the back. Takes those sandbags and slap them on the hood and you'll just make it worse. You need them over the drive wheels.
Who would have guessed that an offroad vehicle designed in socal only works on bare, dry, triassic limestone.
Holy shit that thing is ugly..
Remember how well the Delorian didn't do? Mush has one that's going to do 1,000 times worse. Way to go boy genius.
The Delorean might've been fine if they hadn't tried to build it in Northern Ireland during the Troubles and if John Delorean hadn't been entrapped with drug trafficking charges. Musk doesn't have those excuses.
No, he doesn't. I'd say his being in the right place at the right time streak is nearing an end.
There is not a single good thing about the Cybertruck.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Tesla touts that its Cybertruck is "durable and rugged enough to go anywhere" on its website, but apparently snow may be its kryptonite after numerous online videos and pictures have showed the electric vehicle getting stuck in typical wintery conditions.
An Instagram user posted a video of a Cybertruck slipping and getting stuck in about four inches of snow in an unspecified location.
"There's literally a sedan like thirty feet ahead of it that made it all the way to a parking space," joked podcaster and journalist Robert Evans.
And back in December, a TikTok video also showed a stuck Cybertruck being pulled up by a sports utility vehicle on a slight incline of snow and ice.
All this content showing its performance in real-world conditions doesn't bode well for a vehicle that's being hyped as the next big thing in the lucrative consumer truck sector.
Regardless, the news doesn't come at a good time for Tesla's Cybertruck, which has had to contend with range and quality control issues, in addition to numerous delays and production problems.
The original article contains 388 words, the summary contains 176 words. Saved 55%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Shitty truck performs shittily.
Fixed their headline.
Several comments about tires being the issue. I've driven through worse with a simple set of all-seasons - is there something special about EV tires that make them perform so poorly in these conditions?
Low rolling resistance tires tend to be not very great in snow. They get that low rolling resistance partly by not having a very sticky compound, and partly by not having a very aggressive tread pattern (among other things, I'm sure). Both of those factors are going to have an impact on traction on anything but dry pavement.
It might also be due to other design choices. I've got a 2015 Ford Fusion PHEV, and I had a 2013 Fusion Hybrid before that; they suck so bad in the snow with normal all-season tires that I have to keep a finger on the electric parking brake switch to make sure I can stop if there's any snow on the ground.
I bet it has traction control which is great in wet conditions, and light snow. Get over 5" of snow and traction control is worthless if you start to get stuck.
So apparently after a quick search, I found that the truck does indeed have traction control, and it's buried somewhere in a submenu of it's touch screen controls. So I bet more than likely stuff like this is happening because the controls are not easily found and readily available to turn off when you need it.
Hell on my Jetta it's on the panel by the emergency brake. Easy to find and turn off.
Hubris?
I’ve driven through worse in a 1980s manual pickup with bald tires. It wasn’t pretty driving, but the truck didn’t get stuck either.
Edit: Not that I'm trying to show bravado or anything. Whole state was closed down in a state of emergency and my retail boss said I had to come in, and in 'mericuh you can't lose your job! Kudos all go to the bald tire truck. Nobody should ever try this.
You drove through this same location...? On the same day...? In a comparable pickup truck?
I'm curious if this is a "Cyber Truck" issue or an electric vehicle / drive train issue. I mean, do the electric motors in these vehicles have "gears"?
It's the tires
The harder and small the tire, the better the range.
Good truck/snow tires are huge and a little flat, pretty much the opposite.
They likely switched tires last minute to try and hide the horrible range
I have a different electric truck with 21" tires, and it does fine in the snow. It even has a snow mode. The weight might make it even better than some pickups.
This is the tires or something else with the design, for sure.
Technically they have gears, but not as you normally think of gears.
In my opinion, Partially it's an electric vehicle thing (lots of torque) and partially it's a software thing (wheel slip and torque control algorithms) The suspension design and tire size choice could affect this as well, but not as much in my opinion as the previous points.
If you're driving in the snow you don't want a lot of torque starting out. When I'd drive a manual transmission I'd start off in 2nd rather than 1st for this reason.
Electric motors are famous for having maximum torque instantly, so unless it's got an accurate wheel slip sensor it will apply too much torque and just spin.
Then there's the problem of it being super heavy. The best car I ever drove in the snow was a Scion xA. It was so light it would float above any accumulation. My motor scooter was even better.
Tesla has excellent wheel slip controls, that is why the Plaid can accelerate like it does on the street. I am certain the issue is driver skill and tires, but mostly driver skill.
These trucks are really heavy, being made out of metal. Google says 6600-6800lbs while a F150 is 4200-5700 lbs
No idea on the drive train, would be interesting to see though!
mostly seems like a tire issue. These things come with all seasons made for fuel efficiency, not traction.
No, but why would „gears“ make any difference?
If you're starting off in slippery conditions is good to start in a higher gear so there's less torque and you don't exceed the lower amount of friction with the road surface.
It's quite a bit different for electric motors because they don't have the same power band that ICE have. Electric motors deliver maximum torque at 0rpm. With electric vehicles, you really just have to rely on driver skill and automatic traction control. Gearing won't help you.
It's not an electric vehicle thing... Plenty of other EVs do fine in the snow. Mine even has a snow drive mode and it does pretty great on all season tires.
Get some good snow tire on one, maybe with a 2" suspension lift, in 4X4 mode then see how a Cybertruck handles snow
Snow is 90% about tires. Proper snow tires make a dramatic difference. I'm sure any other truck would get stuck in the same place. They have MUCH poorer weight distribution.
Lol no, I drive a 2011 GMC Serria 2500HD in rural Michigan, USA and my truck would have no problem going up that. In fact my driveway goes up a hill that is far taller than the one shown and most of the time I don't even have to turn on 4 wheel drive. I don't even have snow tires as my all terrains work just fine (as a former autotech I do highly recommend snow tires though). For the weight distribution, yes, but that's also why we throw weight in the bed over the rear axle which solves that real easy.
The problem with the cyber truck is it was designed by people who don't use trucks for a techbro demographic who don't need trucks.
There's no way you can know that.
From another thread on this topic, I've learned that apparently the cybertruck uses custom tires that are the only ones that fit on the stock wheels. In other words, if you want tires that function properly in the snow you've got to replace the wheels themselves, too.
If you're getting a separate set of winter tires you're going to need another set of wheels anyway. I mean you could have them switched to the same wheels and be rebalanced twice a year but I don't know anyone who does that. Here everyone simply just has two sets of wheels.
I mean, it's a large American pickup truck. We all know that it's only a matter of time before those rims are replaced with polished aluminum trashcans
Good.