Great, then we should stop funding their government and military spending. If they won't stop, we can. Of course we won't, but we could and should.
Yeah seriously what the fuck is going on. Where's the line, is there even a line?
There is none.
Not since Kissinger
I cannot find a single person on earth that can give a valid reason for sending them any money or armament whatsoever. We gain absolutely nothing from supporting them. Nothing at all.
Conservatives cry crocodile tears about "wasting money". Every penny ever sent to Israel has been wasted. It's not an investment. There is no return. There is no political or financial gain of any kind for us.
US gains an ally in a very important region of the world. They have huge strategic value. Saying there is nothing is misguided.
We have an ally next door, Jordan.
We'd probably have more allies if we dropped support.
What we are doing is equivalent to us deciding to support North Korea and being shocked that all of a sudden we lose regional support from just about everyone.
Israel, especially with an ongoing genocide, is toxic to stability and alliances. It isolates more than it gives strategic advantage.
Everyone keeps ignoring Jordan but it literally has the best cultural and economic relations with the US. Were they not even together in the anti ISIS coalition?
But nope, Israeli lobbying is stronger than all of our voices combined.
Looks like allying with Israel has only been detrimental to the US. It's been great for Zionists who need the US' protection, though.
Osama bin Laden cited US' support for Israel as one of the reasons for the 9/11 attacks.
Think about the billions, or perhaps trillions, of dollars the US has lost out on because of its support of Israel.
We need to drop them like a bad habit.
Okay, what's your point? I'm stating a fact. They have high strategic value. I don't need to be convinced that it's expensive or risky
Re-read my comment until it makes sense.
I was very clear about my point from the very beginning.
Drop that reddit shit and just explain when someone asks.
Lol, what?
"Re read my comment until it makes sense"
How reddit-y.
I re read it. I still don't see why you decided to respond to me stating a fact with a rant. I don't really care about your opinion and I'm not here to debate whether the US should still support Israel.
You say they have value as an ally. What benefit has the alliance had for the US? Did Israel contribute soldiers to Iraq or Afghanistan? Did Israel support the Obama administration’s JCPOA or did they try to undermine it and kill it?
It’s a one-way alliance.
Like they really need an ally there to bomb middle east to rubble.
Had.
They had huge strategic value.
What do you mean, they are still there, the US can still use their shit if they need to.
Tactical value is fleeting. Israel is the reason we can't afford anything for domestic civilians since 2001.
Why do we need to be involved in the region at all? We’ve only done more harm than good.
Why are you asking me this?
Because you said they provide huge strategic value. What value is that? Why do we even need to have bases in that area to begin with?
Because it's part of the US power projection. Asking that is like asking "why does the US need to do anything outside their borders".
Fair!
It's not misguided it's reactionary nonsense. It's people who literally have no idea what they are talking about and it's obvious to anyone that does.
Keep protesting. It's giving the political capital needed for US politicians to say "hey, maybe we should change our relationship with Israel, here". I know that doesn't sound like much, but in terms of world politics, it's a huge change already for them to be able to say that.
Yes, there is. A lot of the higher-ups in government believe that Israel is necessary for the Rapture to take place. All the Jews will go there, and then get killed, and all the rich white men here will go to heaven.
I wish I was even joking, but I’m not. They’ll keep Israel going at all costs because of this.
Seven Mountain followers want this fight to end horribly. They're actually attempting to hasten it.
I saw a comment the other day that she'd a lot of light on this. Us Military aid to Israel suppresses Israeli arms manufacturing, because they have less need, and boosts their reliance on US arms. It essentially promotes US arms sales not just in Israel, but across the world, as Israel has a fairly strong military industrial complex as is.
Is this a good reason? That's debatable. It's a better reason than none though, and it makes things a lot clearer.
In theory, you could make an argument about defending the people living in a hostile region. In practice the government of Israel has been on a hard right slide for decades and have been openly denying basic human rights to the people stranded in Gaza.
In theory, you could make an argument about defending the people living in a hostile region.
There are vulnerable groups in the middle east. Why lavish only this one with billions of dollars of munitions? We do not have any valid reason to support them any more than any other vulnerable group.
The history of post WW2 era is the forcing function. For better or worse.
Strategic Military advantage and I assume access to massad or some collaboration with them and if we stopped every Muslim country would eradicate Isreal at which point the same people yelling genocide Joe would be screaming for us to help Isreal. It's global politics and its not black and white. Oh and global weapons sales, after all the united states government is more or less just a weapons dealer
Sure you can you're sticking your head in the sand.
It's to maintain Israel's defensive posture as to Iran.
Our weapons and money is not necessary for Israel to carpet bomb all of Gaza and the West Bank several times over before suspending aid altered Israel's posture as to Gaza.
So right now cotinued support is America's only leverage. See? Not complicated at all.
Sounds like Bibi is trying to implement some sort of “final solution” with regards to the Palestinians.
It is truly flabbergasting to watch the Israeli government categorically ignore the incredibly obvious and terrible irony here.
Ironically Israel was never really against holocaust, they just want to make sure that it's Arabs instead of Jews.
It just proves to me that people are people.
How can we get to the root of our problems if we continue to group people from different regions as separate and distinct?
We’re all the same species. We’re humans dehumanizing humans to make killing humans easier under the leadership of a tiny fraction of our species fighting to go down in history. Same as it ever was.
Even when we do our absolute best to be good to each other, we still break ourselves into groups. “You can’t wear braids, that’s cultural appropriation!” The person who says that means well, but ultimately we have to stop treating each other as, well, other.
The only thing that makes us any different is actually something that we should strive to see as similarity. That is which individuals from which time influenced what area and how that don’t really matter and was just luck (or bad luck) of the draw.
So what if 3,000 years ago some dude thought it was cool to paint stripes on his face and wear a big hat which lead to millions painting stripes on their faces while wearing big hats over there in a distant land.
It’s the same damn thing as some dude over here thinking that a white wig and a big frilly shirt was rad and millions following in his footsteps.
It really is simple. Our cultures are built from people who came and went before us and folks following them and spreading the rad (or ugly) shit they did.
Our culture has to reach a point where it is considered a collective and shared human culture.
Who fucked who, where, and how much influence they left on their descendants and how much we give a shit about the where isn’t helping us. If an alien abducted 10 humans from different regions they wouldn’t even give a thought to how our history separates us. They’d just have 10 of a species from the planet earth.
I hope we get it together one day. It breaks my heart that those people are suffering so terribly right now. The malnourished kids in those photos remind me of the ones from the holocaust.
It would be nice if the people in power could relate their suffering to that of their grandparents. It really would.
Sorry I’m all over the place.
I disagree. You're pretty on target with that.
The diversity we have as a species is -and always has been- our greatest strength. It means a subset of us can usually do at least "ok" under any given situation.
The same thing is what made some poxy little island able to rule a vast swathe of the planet. The UK took the best of everything it encountered, and added it to it's own, like the Borg. Of course, like everywhere else that's run by plutocrats, in an effort to keep us all divided anything "foreign" is currently bad, and to be shunned.
The UK took the best of everything it encountered, and added it to it's own, like the Borg.
The Empire was built from the Agricultural and Industrial Revolution, and the +15 year head start the British got over the rest of the world. The coupling of massive domestic economic growth with an international system of spoils and conquest lead to the Age of Sail and the gilded era for Britain, not an adherence to objective, rational facts and ideas.
The advantage of developing earlier lead to much of the leading research, science and practices coming from Britain, but they certainly had enough hubris to ignore better ideas that weren’t their own
Easiest suction is to make first contact and turn an entire alien species into the 'other' we always need to have and hate. Humanity will learn to cooperate by force then
Same as it ever was.
Only since around 600BC when coin turned money from a quantitive measurement of debt into a protection racket against soldiers, mercenaries and thugs (military colonialism wouldn't be possible without this redefinition of money). Yeah, there were always societies with ruthless hierarchies, but they weren't the norm. Yeah, there was always inequality in wealth or physical ability, but wealth wasn't always used to lord over and deprive from eachother. The norm for most of humanities 200,000+ years were societies of cooperation, a colourful carnival of experimental politics of the likes we couldn't even dream of nowadays. Ruthless and brutal hierarchies famously collapse because communities actively decided to abandon them, move elsewhere, and create something new and better. Human history is marked by stories of societies who reject arbitrary authorities, the ability to go elsewhere, and most of all have the expectation that wherever they go they'll be cared for. None of these freedoms exist anymore, so the question is how and why did we lose these freedoms? And who benefits from these losses of freedoms? After accepting that society is what we make of it, defined by rules on how to live amongst one another in a bottom->up direction, then why are we so eager to blindly accept arbitrary authority, stay put, and fear our neighbors?
Israel has decided to implement a "final solution" to the "Palestinian question".
Jewish Hitler.
actually...Israeli Hitler would be more appropriate.
Not all Jews support Ben (and Israel in that matter) ... But most Israelis do seem to support Ben, otherwise they could've just just gathered around the gov building and demanded his step-down.
No, he's pretty unpopular there, most polls say that Benny Gantz would beat him easily in an election. That doesn't mean that they object to his approach to Gaza, or that Gantz would be any better for the Palestinian people.
And what, pray tell, is “total victory”?
You know... Total as in "Final" and victory as in "Solution". It's more polite than saying genocide.
Sounds like he never lost his way and genocide was always the goal.
And after all Palestinians in Gaza are murdered, Netanyahu will bring up that Hamas is also in the West Bank and Lebanon.
And after that, maybe Jordan. Then perhaps Syria. Fascists can't stay in power without whipping up xenophobia.
He knows he has to. Otherwise people would not support him.
All Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, too? At this rate it will take Israel another 67 years! And then also Lebanon? Lebanon has a million more people than Gaza and the West Bank combined. Won't check the math on this one but that'll make it like what, another 90 years.
I'm sure AIPAC has told Netanyahu they won't let US politicians stop the flow of money and arms to Israel (AIPAC is spending 100 million to keep progressives out of office). The criticism is just theater. Biden only started changing his language when people started voting "uncommitted" in battleground states, and he is still shipping arms to Israel every 36 hours. The Israeli blockade of humanitarian aid is barely mentioned officially, the air-dropped aid is woefully inadequate and little more than virtue signalling. 3 months ago, when Gazan civilian casualties were at 21,000+, Congress passed a bill making criticizing Zionism/Israel legally equal to antisemitism. All this shows that Netanyahu just needs to keep accepting aid and let Biden talk for political reasons until he's re-elected.
The US needs to stop funding terrorists.
The US needs to stop funding genocide.
Use the word. It's important. It's what it is. This is a modern holocaust happening before our eyes, and we are complicit in it.
I agree that the word is appropriate, but it's also problematic because it has legal definitions that are almost never met. Someone will inevitably argue with the use of the term, and the conversation will be completely derailed by a vocabulary debate
I just say genocidal actions.
Hard to disagree there
Ignore them. You can't patent the term genocide
They can argue all they want. I really don't care.
The legal definitions of genocide are only difficult to meet because they were written by countries with their own histories of genocide. That's why it's so hard to prove.
That's not a standard we need to hold ourselves to.
It should be known as "The Israeli Self-Defense Genocide" in the history books.
Am I the only one who has been hearing the frustrations coming from democrats and Biden about Netanyahu? Reading these comments you'd think Biden has been best buddy's with Netanyahu and all is squeaky clean in their relationship, which is very, VERY much not the case. You'd also think that democratic leadership didn't just call out Netanyahu and suggest Israeli's vote him out over Gaza.
It's so weird that Biden is simultaneously Genocide Joe and Pro Hamas Biden.
I know talk is cheap and we are still sending military aid to Israel, but it all comes down to Biden facing daily trolley problems and balancing keeping friendly relationships with our one (nuclear capable) middle eastern country, taking the US seriously as a country that can stop a genocide by saying no to this (nuclear capable) middle eastern country, a reelection, and sending a message to the United States allies and adversaries of if we will or will not support who we say we will support.
I don’t give Biden credit for resisting Netanyahu. During the Trump years we heard endlessly about Republicans who privately criticized Trump but publicly defended him slavishly. They get no credit, so why should Biden?
Biden’s policy was to publicly hug Netanyahu and hope that doing so would make him easy to pressure behind closed doors. It failed repeatedly. Biden is unwilling to pressure Netanyahu publicly and is instead taking the heat for him, with nothing in return. It’s pathetic and bringing down his campaign.
I was here when Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem and then democrats used that as justification for why we should vote for Biden
Talk is not cheap, it is very much free of cost and carries no weight in the modern age of internet where evidence and first hand accounts are so abundant for the public to see.
The only critical reason Biden has an issue with Netanyahu is because:
He's damaging Biden's election campaign
He's not directly controllable or influenced like how the leaders of the surrounding shill arab countries are (ex: Sisi), which is just an extension of the first reason
As long as Israel has money to pay for weapons and the US has an interest in Israel (military complex and lots of technology), very little will change even with strained relations.
The best chance of anything changing is if the conflict became wider and suddenly started costing the USA resources, which is what the Houthis were trying to achieve by sabotaging the red sea shipping lanes.
We almost have our four horsemen of the apocalypse:
Putin = war
Trump = petulance (disease via COVID)
Netanyahu = famine (at least it Gaza)
It's pestilence, but I think petulance actually suits Trump better
The second half of your comment shows you know the answer to the first half. Yes, it is that easy.
The needs of the many outweigh the Netanyahu.
The needs of Israel outweigh the Netanyahu.
Him trying to doggedly ‘crush’ Hamas (an impossible goal politically) whilst refusing to see the larger picture is an outstanding dereliction of duty to the country as a whole
The northern border is increasingly heating up with Hezbollah targeting IDF bases directly and with larger ordnance - in a few months it has progressed from lowly ATGMs and 80s tech, to Grad and Burkan rocket artillery. There’s now more frequent attacks on northern towns and settlements because of their increasing firepower brought in
International condemnation is widespread, your neighbors to the east and south are publicly taking about ‘changes in security treaties’ with Israel and threatening unilateral action, an ICJ judgment that is sustained into war crimes investigations, and top US official and leaders are talking about ‘red lines’ and implicitly threatening continuing US military aid - that’s a big problem.
Even if you accept the ‘4D chess’ angle that Bibi is dealing with Iran Hamas completely to remove that threat before taking care of Iran Hezbollah, that ignores the global reality that the world, not just the Arab/Islamic world, isn’t going to sit by and let you ignore ~2 million Palestinians, today or tomorrow.
Israel is totally capable of winning the battle against Hamas, no doubt. But by doing so they will loose the wider war, isolate themselves politically, and make their own survival harder without friendly nations in a rough neighborhood.
Do I see a little moustache growing on Benny's lip? Total Victory kinda sounds similar to "Final Solution"
He has had a sweaty combover and quadratic moustache implied since whenever the fucker was unfortunately born into this world.
He kinda has a similar face. I think this is a case of electric boogaloo.
I thought that was Putin.
Or Bolsonaro.
Or Modi.
Or Winnie the Pooh.
We've landed in a world wide rerun of "Fascists Got Talent"
Those three have different faces
"total victory" sure sounds like they've given some thought to their objectives and it's no accident they're killing lots of civilians
"final solution" vibes
I wonder how synonymous “total victory” would be with “final solution” if this guy was German in the 1940s
It surely reminds me of the Sportpalast Speech also known as the Total War Speech of Joseph Goebbles.
Do you believe with the Führer and us in the final total victory of the German people? Are you and the German people willing to work, if the Führer orders, 10, 12 and if necessary 14 hours a day and to give everything for victory? Do you want total war? If necessary, do you want a war more total and radical than anything that we can even imagine today?
I wonder if Israel calls their apartheid blocks "ghettos"..
"total victory" is no Palestinians and all the land.
Fucking religion and real estate all mixed together and killing innocent people....
Almost everything I hate about the world all in one disgusting package.
There are so many justifications for fascism within religions (Maybe most especially, but not exclusively, Abrahamic)
Sounds even better in German!
total victory sounds like "wollt ihr den totalen krieg"
Before starting a war, ask yourself what victory would look like. It appears here that the goal is wiping Gaza entirely and anything short of that will be construed as a loss.
That's the goal?
They are at 1.5% of the population of Gaza and daily death tolls have fallen month after month. If that's the goal shouldn't the killing apparatus become more effective and not 20% less so each month?
Hmm, perhaps your reasoning is flawed.
They are at 1.5% of the population of Gaza and daily death tolls have fallen month after month. If that’s the goal shouldn’t the killing apparatus become more effective and not 20% less so each month?
I'm sorry not enough people are getting killed efficiently enough for you. What do you think 'Total Victory' means for Israel here?
What the fuck? Where you get that idea from? I point out an obvious flaw in your reasoning and somehow that means I want more people to die? What's wrong with you?
Monthly death tolls are rising, what are you talking about?
Check your figures.
You’re the one claiming they’re falling, the burden of proof is on you.
I don't care if you believe me or not, I'm unburdened. The daily death tally is and has been trending downward since this second or third week.
With only 12 out of the 35 hospitals partially functioning, since the rest have been bombed relentlessly and are no longer operational, the death numbers are certainly a conservative estimate And most likely higher. Weird thing to say when millions are on the brink of starvation and dozens have already died of starvation.
So fucking what? 20 less people die each day and that makes it okay for you? Starvation snd disease orchestrated by Israel will kill many more soon but I'm sure you'll find an excuse.
They've forced most of the population to Rafah on the southern border and are preparing an assault on the city while Egypt is preparing a walled camp just across the border to contain refugees. Sounds like they're well on track.
Yeah and Hamas leadership continues to use most of Gaza as a human shield. Hamas should have stayed in the north and met their fate, they're cowards, hiring behind women and kids, but they traveled with the refugees.
They are at 1.5% of the population of Gaza and daily death tolls have fallen month after month. If that's the goal shouldn't the killing apparatus become more effective and not 20% less so each month?
If Israel was stupid then yeah they'd ramp up the killing after the ICJ ruled that it was a plausible case of genocide. If they were not stupid maybe they would slow down.
So the question is: do you think Israel is stupid?
Yeah remember how when Hitler first shoved all the jews into concentration camps
Then he let them suffer and die in those camps for a while
Then he made dedicated death camps to kill them all
So I guess we should wait until the death toll reaches at least 25% before we start to do anything just like how the allies definitely waited for Hitler to make death camps before fighting with his army.
It's a stupid comparison.
Then explain why excessive civilian casualties are acceptable lmao
Because that's Hamas's strategy, to put people in harms way and then prey on your sympathy. It's called lawfare.
It's called Israeli propaganda that has no independent verification and is used by Israel to justify intentionally targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure.
Can see it and verify it for yourself if you're not blinded by your wildly out of control emotional reactions to everything you see.
You got me, empathy makes me anti-Genocide. Funny that you don't see human rights organizations and independent news outlets as credible despite their reports being verifiable. Meanwhile, you promote IDF rhetoric used to justify ethnic cleansing, despite their verifiable track record of falsified information. You've made Islamophobic comments, which come from fear and hate; emotions IDF propaganda exploits.
Lawfare is a word Israel likes to use when Palestinians appeal to international law.
When we do it, it's lawfare.
When Israel genocides Gaza, it's just defending itself. And hell has frozen over btw
Your argument is that there are so many dead that the IDF is killing people more slowly...
Nope you've misread.
Israel lost it's way decades ago whenbit decides genocide over peace.
Large parts of the Israeli public want a deal, fearing that hostages are held in poor conditions and time is running out to bring them home alive.
Are they even thinking at their own people themselves? It seems to me they want the total destruction of gaza, including the hostages cought in these massive operations.
Disgusting savage
BDS
Do you want the total war?
Do you want it, if necessary, more total and radical than anything that we can yet today even conceive?
-Bibi Goebels, basically
Very disappointing to see from him. It is time to not support Israel.
I was against this from the beginning after the first day of asswopping. That's when the aggression should have stopped. Now I'm growing totally against this shit. I mean the civilians who have not much input are literally dying from hunger. What else do the Israeli government want? Can they do that without spending more American resources? I don't want to end up having to watch NOVA 20 years from now explaining how the US became involved in the yet another worse human castretosfe of the century. I'll be older and would probably fall asleep.
Maybe we just stop helping the Israeli government now?
How?
The only two candidates available want to help Israel, Biden and even more so Trump. If you're hoping that some sort of legislation, protest, or representative will push for removing aid to Israel then I want what you're smoking. The world will scream and shout while Israel/US does the genocide anyway, and we'll add it to the long list of war crimes committed that we do nothing about except whine and complain.
In a democracy you have to be a player, crying into the void of the internet isn't going to do anything. I would give my suggestions about what needs to be done, but then my comment will surely be removed by a mod. The problem is I don't see any other solution, except hang on and let time itself deal with them.
Bibi over here testing the limits of Godwin's Law. Keep it up you fucking genocidal scum!
64% of Israelis support early elections.
The opposition is just as genocidal and 90% of Jewish Israelis(80% of the population) believe appropriate or not enough force is being used.
Elections won't change a thing.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In recent days, top officials from the U.S., Israel’s staunchest ally which has provided key military and diplomatic support, have publicly voiced their frustration with Netanyahu and his government.
Netanyahu said that calls for an election now — which polls show he would lose badly — would force Israel to stop fighting and would paralyze the country for six months.
“No international pressure will stop us from realizing all of the goals of the war: Eliminating Hamas, freeing all of our hostages and ensuring that Gaza never again constitutes a threat to Israel,” he said.
Alon Pinkas, a former Israeli consul-general in New York and an outspoken critic of Netanyahu, said that the prime minister’s comments fit with his efforts to find someone else to blame should Israel not achieve its goal of destroying Hamas.
But pressure also comes from home, with thousands protesting again in Tel Aviv on Saturday night against Netanyahu’s government and calling for a new election and a deal to free remaining hostages.
At least 11 people from the Thabet family, including five children and one woman, were killed in an airstrike in Deir al-Balah city in central Gaza, according to the Palestinian Red Crescent Society and an Associated Press journalist.
The original article contains 762 words, the summary contains 205 words. Saved 73%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Israel will never know peace.
A perfect punishment for their sins
"WOLLEN SIE DEN TOTALEN KRIEG?!?"
Okay "Adolph"
There will be no “total victory” without U.S. support. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.
Great, then we should stop funding their government and military spending. If they won't stop, we can. Of course we won't, but we could and should.
Yeah seriously what the fuck is going on. Where's the line, is there even a line?
There is none.
Not since Kissinger
I cannot find a single person on earth that can give a valid reason for sending them any money or armament whatsoever. We gain absolutely nothing from supporting them. Nothing at all.
Conservatives cry crocodile tears about "wasting money". Every penny ever sent to Israel has been wasted. It's not an investment. There is no return. There is no political or financial gain of any kind for us.
US gains an ally in a very important region of the world. They have huge strategic value. Saying there is nothing is misguided.
We have an ally next door, Jordan.
We'd probably have more allies if we dropped support.
What we are doing is equivalent to us deciding to support North Korea and being shocked that all of a sudden we lose regional support from just about everyone.
Israel, especially with an ongoing genocide, is toxic to stability and alliances. It isolates more than it gives strategic advantage.
Everyone keeps ignoring Jordan but it literally has the best cultural and economic relations with the US. Were they not even together in the anti ISIS coalition?
But nope, Israeli lobbying is stronger than all of our voices combined.
Looks like allying with Israel has only been detrimental to the US. It's been great for Zionists who need the US' protection, though.
Osama bin Laden cited US' support for Israel as one of the reasons for the 9/11 attacks.
Think about the billions, or perhaps trillions, of dollars the US has lost out on because of its support of Israel.
We need to drop them like a bad habit.
Okay, what's your point? I'm stating a fact. They have high strategic value. I don't need to be convinced that it's expensive or risky
Re-read my comment until it makes sense.
I was very clear about my point from the very beginning.
Drop that reddit shit and just explain when someone asks.
Lol, what?
"Re read my comment until it makes sense"
How reddit-y.
I re read it. I still don't see why you decided to respond to me stating a fact with a rant. I don't really care about your opinion and I'm not here to debate whether the US should still support Israel.
You say they have value as an ally. What benefit has the alliance had for the US? Did Israel contribute soldiers to Iraq or Afghanistan? Did Israel support the Obama administration’s JCPOA or did they try to undermine it and kill it?
It’s a one-way alliance.
Like they really need an ally there to bomb middle east to rubble.
Had.
They had huge strategic value.
What do you mean, they are still there, the US can still use their shit if they need to.
Tactical value is fleeting. Israel is the reason we can't afford anything for domestic civilians since 2001.
Why do we need to be involved in the region at all? We’ve only done more harm than good.
Why are you asking me this?
Because you said they provide huge strategic value. What value is that? Why do we even need to have bases in that area to begin with?
Because it's part of the US power projection. Asking that is like asking "why does the US need to do anything outside their borders".
Fair!
It's not misguided it's reactionary nonsense. It's people who literally have no idea what they are talking about and it's obvious to anyone that does.
Keep protesting. It's giving the political capital needed for US politicians to say "hey, maybe we should change our relationship with Israel, here". I know that doesn't sound like much, but in terms of world politics, it's a huge change already for them to be able to say that.
Yes, there is. A lot of the higher-ups in government believe that Israel is necessary for the Rapture to take place. All the Jews will go there, and then get killed, and all the rich white men here will go to heaven.
I wish I was even joking, but I’m not. They’ll keep Israel going at all costs because of this.
Seven Mountain followers want this fight to end horribly. They're actually attempting to hasten it.
I saw a comment the other day that she'd a lot of light on this. Us Military aid to Israel suppresses Israeli arms manufacturing, because they have less need, and boosts their reliance on US arms. It essentially promotes US arms sales not just in Israel, but across the world, as Israel has a fairly strong military industrial complex as is.
Is this a good reason? That's debatable. It's a better reason than none though, and it makes things a lot clearer.
In theory, you could make an argument about defending the people living in a hostile region. In practice the government of Israel has been on a hard right slide for decades and have been openly denying basic human rights to the people stranded in Gaza.
There are vulnerable groups in the middle east. Why lavish only this one with billions of dollars of munitions? We do not have any valid reason to support them any more than any other vulnerable group.
The history of post WW2 era is the forcing function. For better or worse.
Strategic Military advantage and I assume access to massad or some collaboration with them and if we stopped every Muslim country would eradicate Isreal at which point the same people yelling genocide Joe would be screaming for us to help Isreal. It's global politics and its not black and white. Oh and global weapons sales, after all the united states government is more or less just a weapons dealer
Sure you can you're sticking your head in the sand.
It's to maintain Israel's defensive posture as to Iran.
Our weapons and money is not necessary for Israel to carpet bomb all of Gaza and the West Bank several times over before suspending aid altered Israel's posture as to Gaza.
So right now cotinued support is America's only leverage. See? Not complicated at all.
Sounds like Bibi is trying to implement some sort of “final solution” with regards to the Palestinians.
It is truly flabbergasting to watch the Israeli government categorically ignore the incredibly obvious and terrible irony here.
Ironically Israel was never really against holocaust, they just want to make sure that it's Arabs instead of Jews.
It just proves to me that people are people.
How can we get to the root of our problems if we continue to group people from different regions as separate and distinct?
We’re all the same species. We’re humans dehumanizing humans to make killing humans easier under the leadership of a tiny fraction of our species fighting to go down in history. Same as it ever was.
Even when we do our absolute best to be good to each other, we still break ourselves into groups. “You can’t wear braids, that’s cultural appropriation!” The person who says that means well, but ultimately we have to stop treating each other as, well, other.
The only thing that makes us any different is actually something that we should strive to see as similarity. That is which individuals from which time influenced what area and how that don’t really matter and was just luck (or bad luck) of the draw.
So what if 3,000 years ago some dude thought it was cool to paint stripes on his face and wear a big hat which lead to millions painting stripes on their faces while wearing big hats over there in a distant land.
It’s the same damn thing as some dude over here thinking that a white wig and a big frilly shirt was rad and millions following in his footsteps.
It really is simple. Our cultures are built from people who came and went before us and folks following them and spreading the rad (or ugly) shit they did.
Our culture has to reach a point where it is considered a collective and shared human culture.
Who fucked who, where, and how much influence they left on their descendants and how much we give a shit about the where isn’t helping us. If an alien abducted 10 humans from different regions they wouldn’t even give a thought to how our history separates us. They’d just have 10 of a species from the planet earth.
I hope we get it together one day. It breaks my heart that those people are suffering so terribly right now. The malnourished kids in those photos remind me of the ones from the holocaust.
It would be nice if the people in power could relate their suffering to that of their grandparents. It really would.
Sorry I’m all over the place.
I disagree. You're pretty on target with that.
The diversity we have as a species is -and always has been- our greatest strength. It means a subset of us can usually do at least "ok" under any given situation.
The same thing is what made some poxy little island able to rule a vast swathe of the planet. The UK took the best of everything it encountered, and added it to it's own, like the Borg. Of course, like everywhere else that's run by plutocrats, in an effort to keep us all divided anything "foreign" is currently bad, and to be shunned.
The Empire was built from the Agricultural and Industrial Revolution, and the +15 year head start the British got over the rest of the world. The coupling of massive domestic economic growth with an international system of spoils and conquest lead to the Age of Sail and the gilded era for Britain, not an adherence to objective, rational facts and ideas.
The advantage of developing earlier lead to much of the leading research, science and practices coming from Britain, but they certainly had enough hubris to ignore better ideas that weren’t their own
Easiest suction is to make first contact and turn an entire alien species into the 'other' we always need to have and hate. Humanity will learn to cooperate by force then
Only since around 600BC when coin turned money from a quantitive measurement of debt into a protection racket against soldiers, mercenaries and thugs (military colonialism wouldn't be possible without this redefinition of money). Yeah, there were always societies with ruthless hierarchies, but they weren't the norm. Yeah, there was always inequality in wealth or physical ability, but wealth wasn't always used to lord over and deprive from eachother. The norm for most of humanities 200,000+ years were societies of cooperation, a colourful carnival of experimental politics of the likes we couldn't even dream of nowadays. Ruthless and brutal hierarchies famously collapse because communities actively decided to abandon them, move elsewhere, and create something new and better. Human history is marked by stories of societies who reject arbitrary authorities, the ability to go elsewhere, and most of all have the expectation that wherever they go they'll be cared for. None of these freedoms exist anymore, so the question is how and why did we lose these freedoms? And who benefits from these losses of freedoms? After accepting that society is what we make of it, defined by rules on how to live amongst one another in a bottom->up direction, then why are we so eager to blindly accept arbitrary authority, stay put, and fear our neighbors?
Israel has decided to implement a "final solution" to the "Palestinian question".
Jewish Hitler.
actually...Israeli Hitler would be more appropriate. Not all Jews support Ben (and Israel in that matter) ... But most Israelis do seem to support Ben, otherwise they could've just just gathered around the gov building and demanded his step-down.
No, he's pretty unpopular there, most polls say that Benny Gantz would beat him easily in an election. That doesn't mean that they object to his approach to Gaza, or that Gantz would be any better for the Palestinian people.
And what, pray tell, is “total victory”?
You know... Total as in "Final" and victory as in "Solution". It's more polite than saying genocide.
It's when you win the total war.
Edit /s, as in reference to this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportpalast_speech
Gaza’s army, navy and air force have all been defeated. I guess the rest is winning over the locals’ hearts and minds now, right?
I don't think my sarcasm shone through to you. The term was used by Goebbels in a 1943 speech inspiring the German people for war until extermination.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportpalast_speech
Sounds like he never lost his way and genocide was always the goal.
And after all Palestinians in Gaza are murdered, Netanyahu will bring up that Hamas is also in the West Bank and Lebanon.
And after that, maybe Jordan. Then perhaps Syria. Fascists can't stay in power without whipping up xenophobia.
He knows he has to. Otherwise people would not support him.
All Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, too? At this rate it will take Israel another 67 years! And then also Lebanon? Lebanon has a million more people than Gaza and the West Bank combined. Won't check the math on this one but that'll make it like what, another 90 years.
I'm sure AIPAC has told Netanyahu they won't let US politicians stop the flow of money and arms to Israel (AIPAC is spending 100 million to keep progressives out of office). The criticism is just theater. Biden only started changing his language when people started voting "uncommitted" in battleground states, and he is still shipping arms to Israel every 36 hours. The Israeli blockade of humanitarian aid is barely mentioned officially, the air-dropped aid is woefully inadequate and little more than virtue signalling. 3 months ago, when Gazan civilian casualties were at 21,000+, Congress passed a bill making criticizing Zionism/Israel legally equal to antisemitism. All this shows that Netanyahu just needs to keep accepting aid and let Biden talk for political reasons until he's re-elected.
The US needs to stop funding terrorists.
The US needs to stop funding genocide.
Use the word. It's important. It's what it is. This is a modern holocaust happening before our eyes, and we are complicit in it.
I agree that the word is appropriate, but it's also problematic because it has legal definitions that are almost never met. Someone will inevitably argue with the use of the term, and the conversation will be completely derailed by a vocabulary debate
I just say genocidal actions.
Hard to disagree there
Ignore them. You can't patent the term genocide
They can argue all they want. I really don't care.
The legal definitions of genocide are only difficult to meet because they were written by countries with their own histories of genocide. That's why it's so hard to prove.
That's not a standard we need to hold ourselves to.
Yes mein führer! heels click
It should be known as "The Israeli Self-Defense Genocide" in the history books.
Am I the only one who has been hearing the frustrations coming from democrats and Biden about Netanyahu? Reading these comments you'd think Biden has been best buddy's with Netanyahu and all is squeaky clean in their relationship, which is very, VERY much not the case. You'd also think that democratic leadership didn't just call out Netanyahu and suggest Israeli's vote him out over Gaza.
It's so weird that Biden is simultaneously Genocide Joe and Pro Hamas Biden.
I know talk is cheap and we are still sending military aid to Israel, but it all comes down to Biden facing daily trolley problems and balancing keeping friendly relationships with our one (nuclear capable) middle eastern country, taking the US seriously as a country that can stop a genocide by saying no to this (nuclear capable) middle eastern country, a reelection, and sending a message to the United States allies and adversaries of if we will or will not support who we say we will support.
The answer to stop sending arms to Israel is clear to us, but let's not pretend it's that easy. The rules for rulers are not that straightforward.
I don’t give Biden credit for resisting Netanyahu. During the Trump years we heard endlessly about Republicans who privately criticized Trump but publicly defended him slavishly. They get no credit, so why should Biden?
Biden’s policy was to publicly hug Netanyahu and hope that doing so would make him easy to pressure behind closed doors. It failed repeatedly. Biden is unwilling to pressure Netanyahu publicly and is instead taking the heat for him, with nothing in return. It’s pathetic and bringing down his campaign.
I was here when Trump moved the US embassy to Jerusalem and then democrats used that as justification for why we should vote for Biden
Talk is not cheap, it is very much free of cost and carries no weight in the modern age of internet where evidence and first hand accounts are so abundant for the public to see.
The only critical reason Biden has an issue with Netanyahu is because:
As long as Israel has money to pay for weapons and the US has an interest in Israel (military complex and lots of technology), very little will change even with strained relations.
The best chance of anything changing is if the conflict became wider and suddenly started costing the USA resources, which is what the Houthis were trying to achieve by sabotaging the red sea shipping lanes.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
The rules for rulers are not that straightforward.
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
We almost have our four horsemen of the apocalypse:
Putin = war Trump = petulance (disease via COVID) Netanyahu = famine (at least it Gaza)
It's pestilence, but I think petulance actually suits Trump better
The second half of your comment shows you know the answer to the first half. Yes, it is that easy.
The needs of the many outweigh the Netanyahu.
The needs of Israel outweigh the Netanyahu.
Him trying to doggedly ‘crush’ Hamas (an impossible goal politically) whilst refusing to see the larger picture is an outstanding dereliction of duty to the country as a whole
The northern border is increasingly heating up with Hezbollah targeting IDF bases directly and with larger ordnance - in a few months it has progressed from lowly ATGMs and 80s tech, to Grad and Burkan rocket artillery. There’s now more frequent attacks on northern towns and settlements because of their increasing firepower brought in
International condemnation is widespread, your neighbors to the east and south are publicly taking about ‘changes in security treaties’ with Israel and threatening unilateral action, an ICJ judgment that is sustained into war crimes investigations, and top US official and leaders are talking about ‘red lines’ and implicitly threatening continuing US military aid - that’s a big problem.
Even if you accept the ‘4D chess’ angle that Bibi is dealing with
IranHamas completely to remove that threat before taking care ofIranHezbollah, that ignores the global reality that the world, not just the Arab/Islamic world, isn’t going to sit by and let you ignore ~2 million Palestinians, today or tomorrow.Israel is totally capable of winning the battle against Hamas, no doubt. But by doing so they will loose the wider war, isolate themselves politically, and make their own survival harder without friendly nations in a rough neighborhood.
Do I see a little moustache growing on Benny's lip? Total Victory kinda sounds similar to "Final Solution"
He has had a sweaty combover and quadratic moustache implied since whenever the fucker was unfortunately born into this world.
He kinda has a similar face. I think this is a case of electric boogaloo.
I thought that was Putin.
Or Bolsonaro.
Or Modi.
Or Winnie the Pooh.
We've landed in a world wide rerun of "Fascists Got Talent"
Those three have different faces
"total victory" sure sounds like they've given some thought to their objectives and it's no accident they're killing lots of civilians
"final solution" vibes
I wonder how synonymous “total victory” would be with “final solution” if this guy was German in the 1940s
It surely reminds me of the Sportpalast Speech also known as the Total War Speech of Joseph Goebbles.
I wonder if Israel calls their apartheid blocks "ghettos"..
"total victory" is no Palestinians and all the land.
Fucking religion and real estate all mixed together and killing innocent people....
Almost everything I hate about the world all in one disgusting package.
There are so many justifications for fascism within religions (Maybe most especially, but not exclusively, Abrahamic)
Sounds even better in German!
total victory sounds like "wollt ihr den totalen krieg"
Before starting a war, ask yourself what victory would look like. It appears here that the goal is wiping Gaza entirely and anything short of that will be construed as a loss.
That's the goal?
They are at 1.5% of the population of Gaza and daily death tolls have fallen month after month. If that's the goal shouldn't the killing apparatus become more effective and not 20% less so each month?
Hmm, perhaps your reasoning is flawed.
I'm sorry not enough people are getting killed efficiently enough for you. What do you think 'Total Victory' means for Israel here?
What the fuck? Where you get that idea from? I point out an obvious flaw in your reasoning and somehow that means I want more people to die? What's wrong with you?
Monthly death tolls are rising, what are you talking about?
Check your figures.
You’re the one claiming they’re falling, the burden of proof is on you.
I don't care if you believe me or not, I'm unburdened. The daily death tally is and has been trending downward since this second or third week.
With only 12 out of the 35 hospitals partially functioning, since the rest have been bombed relentlessly and are no longer operational, the death numbers are certainly a conservative estimate And most likely higher. Weird thing to say when millions are on the brink of starvation and dozens have already died of starvation.
So fucking what? 20 less people die each day and that makes it okay for you? Starvation snd disease orchestrated by Israel will kill many more soon but I'm sure you'll find an excuse.
They've forced most of the population to Rafah on the southern border and are preparing an assault on the city while Egypt is preparing a walled camp just across the border to contain refugees. Sounds like they're well on track.
Yeah and Hamas leadership continues to use most of Gaza as a human shield. Hamas should have stayed in the north and met their fate, they're cowards, hiring behind women and kids, but they traveled with the refugees.
If Israel was stupid then yeah they'd ramp up the killing after the ICJ ruled that it was a plausible case of genocide. If they were not stupid maybe they would slow down.
So the question is: do you think Israel is stupid?
Yeah remember how when Hitler first shoved all the jews into concentration camps
Then he let them suffer and die in those camps for a while
Then he made dedicated death camps to kill them all
So I guess we should wait until the death toll reaches at least 25% before we start to do anything just like how the allies definitely waited for Hitler to make death camps before fighting with his army.
It's a stupid comparison.
Then explain why excessive civilian casualties are acceptable lmao
Because that's Hamas's strategy, to put people in harms way and then prey on your sympathy. It's called lawfare.
It's called Israeli propaganda that has no independent verification and is used by Israel to justify intentionally targeting civilians and civilian infrastructure.
Can see it and verify it for yourself if you're not blinded by your wildly out of control emotional reactions to everything you see.
You got me, empathy makes me anti-Genocide. Funny that you don't see human rights organizations and independent news outlets as credible despite their reports being verifiable. Meanwhile, you promote IDF rhetoric used to justify ethnic cleansing, despite their verifiable track record of falsified information. You've made Islamophobic comments, which come from fear and hate; emotions IDF propaganda exploits.
Lawfare is a word Israel likes to use when Palestinians appeal to international law.
When we do it, it's lawfare. When Israel genocides Gaza, it's just defending itself. And hell has frozen over btw
Your argument is that there are so many dead that the IDF is killing people more slowly...
Nope you've misread.
Israel lost it's way decades ago whenbit decides genocide over peace.
Are they even thinking at their own people themselves? It seems to me they want the total destruction of gaza, including the hostages cought in these massive operations.
Disgusting savage
BDS
-Bibi Goebels, basically
Very disappointing to see from him. It is time to not support Israel.
I was against this from the beginning after the first day of asswopping. That's when the aggression should have stopped. Now I'm growing totally against this shit. I mean the civilians who have not much input are literally dying from hunger. What else do the Israeli government want? Can they do that without spending more American resources? I don't want to end up having to watch NOVA 20 years from now explaining how the US became involved in the yet another worse human castretosfe of the century. I'll be older and would probably fall asleep.
Maybe we just stop helping the Israeli government now?
How?
The only two candidates available want to help Israel, Biden and even more so Trump. If you're hoping that some sort of legislation, protest, or representative will push for removing aid to Israel then I want what you're smoking. The world will scream and shout while Israel/US does the genocide anyway, and we'll add it to the long list of war crimes committed that we do nothing about except whine and complain.
In a democracy you have to be a player, crying into the void of the internet isn't going to do anything. I would give my suggestions about what needs to be done, but then my comment will surely be removed by a mod. The problem is I don't see any other solution, except hang on and let time itself deal with them.
Bibi over here testing the limits of Godwin's Law. Keep it up you fucking genocidal scum!
64% of Israelis support early elections.
The opposition is just as genocidal and 90% of Jewish Israelis(80% of the population) believe appropriate or not enough force is being used.
Elections won't change a thing.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In recent days, top officials from the U.S., Israel’s staunchest ally which has provided key military and diplomatic support, have publicly voiced their frustration with Netanyahu and his government.
Netanyahu said that calls for an election now — which polls show he would lose badly — would force Israel to stop fighting and would paralyze the country for six months.
“No international pressure will stop us from realizing all of the goals of the war: Eliminating Hamas, freeing all of our hostages and ensuring that Gaza never again constitutes a threat to Israel,” he said.
Alon Pinkas, a former Israeli consul-general in New York and an outspoken critic of Netanyahu, said that the prime minister’s comments fit with his efforts to find someone else to blame should Israel not achieve its goal of destroying Hamas.
But pressure also comes from home, with thousands protesting again in Tel Aviv on Saturday night against Netanyahu’s government and calling for a new election and a deal to free remaining hostages.
At least 11 people from the Thabet family, including five children and one woman, were killed in an airstrike in Deir al-Balah city in central Gaza, according to the Palestinian Red Crescent Society and an Associated Press journalist.
The original article contains 762 words, the summary contains 205 words. Saved 73%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Israel will never know peace.
A perfect punishment for their sins
"WOLLEN SIE DEN TOTALEN KRIEG?!?"
Okay "Adolph"
There will be no “total victory” without U.S. support. Don’t bite the hand that feeds you.