Are we Wayland yet or Whats missing?

bastonia@lemmy.mlbanned from sitebanned from site to Linux@lemmy.ml – 237 points –

Curious from people who follow its development closely.

  • What protocol are about to be finally implemented?
  • Which ones are still a struggle?
  • How many serious protocols are there missing?

https://arewewaylandyet.com/

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Been working great for me for ~1 year on my desktop and closer to 2-3 on my laptop.

The only thing missing for me was Barrier for input sharing, which libei is supposed to fix. I ended up going for a hardware solution as Barrier is jank af anyway.

Only thing not working for me is HDR (should be fixed in Plasma 6.1), not like you could do HDR on Xorg anyway. Also no HDMI 2.1 but that's because fuck the HDMI Forum.

Performance-wise, just blows away Xorg in every metric, and explicit sync should make that even better.

Oh so a Plasma update broke HDR. I was wondering what happened when HDR went from looking primo to looking washed out and ugly. I'll just wait patiently on SDR. :)

Were you using patched KWin or something? Because experimental HDR support is supposed to be one of the big features for 6.0, so unless it broke in 6.0.3 or something, you shouldn't have had an update to break HDR in the first place because it wasn't supported.

No just whatever came from the Arch repo. I'm not entirely sure what version I'm on right now, but it's been broken for me for maybe 2-3 weeks. It's not the biggest deal and I'm used to unimportant features like that occasionally breaking.

Well that's a weird one then. It got released February 38th and took a couple days for Arch to get it. I had the washed out colors too but I didn't have any HDR before that. That's ~6 weeks ago so yeah it's probably 6.0.3, the last that came out about that 2-3 weeks ago. I guess you were one of the lucky ones it worked and then broke! With a bit of luck it'll be fixed for good on 6.1.

Any chance it's hardware dependent? First I'm hearing of this and I just toggled it off and on to be sure I wasn't seeing things - mine is definitely working. I'm all-Intel FWIW.

It works for most people but there's some issues with some monitors where the color saturation doesn't work well and result in washed out colors compared to SDR.

It will also output RGB into YUV buffers if you have a display that only supports YUV colorspaces, so you end up with a very green and reddish purpleish screen.

Initial HDR support was introduced in 6.0, and 6.1 is supposed to bring some fixes for the washed up colors. I haven't found a bug for the YUV stuff and didn't have time to do a proper bug report.

Could be that the graphics card is outputting an HDR signal (Rec. 2020 color space), but the monitor is in SDR mode. That would result in desaturated colors.

I wish it were that simple, but no. The monitor enables HDR automatically when being fed an HDR signal. I can confirm that HDR is enabled on both ends and it still ends up washed out, whereas before it was perfectly fine. :(

Only thing not working for me is HDR (should be fixed in Plasma 6.1)

What's supposed to not work, and what am I supposed to have fixed in 6.1? There haven't been any major changes to HDR since 6.0

What hardware solution did you go with?

A bigger desk so I can just roll the chair a few inches to switch to the work laptop.

My original plan was a keyboard/mouse only KVM, probably a Teensy or a RPi or something of the sorts. But I got lazy as the extra desk space has just made it a non-issue for me. I also have a Logitech mouse that can switch between devices, so if I was going to really need that setup I'd probably just get the matching keyboard.

The site is sort of outdated, but one important missing aspect there is accesibility. Here are some notes that gather links and following on the discussions on the matter in case you're interested.

For me, the plasma 6 implementation misses nothing. Multiple monitors work with no issues, and every program I could run works with no issues.

My main problem is that none of the tiling wayland compositors ( hyprland for example ) work well with multiple monitors. My usecase is to keepcmy laptop's monitor in clamshell mode and just use the external one, but I tend to if I leave for a long time to turn off the monitor since plasma can't turn it off the output for powersaving by itself for weird reasons and plasma 6 kwin will corectly start up on the monitor if I turn it on.

Compositors like hyprland for soke reason won't and will ontly show blank screen and not even allow me to change to another tty, effectively freezing my system.

But I got used to the way plasma works, made it work similary to a tiling wm for the virtual desktops and placing speficifc windows in specific virtual desktop and stuff like that, so I get the benefits of a good stacking (floating) wayland compositor with robust virtual desktops support.

Weird, I've been using hyprland on multi monitor for a while

Only issue I've ever noticed is that some games will insist on running on my second monitor for some reason and will stay locked at at 1080p when moved to the higher res one

My problem is I only use external minitor and turn off laptop monitor, so when I also turn off the external monitor and then turn it back on hyprlamd just has a stroke.

I'm not sure as to how long ago you did this but it moves workspaces dynamically now when you unplug/replug monitors

I used to do this quite frequently, disabling laptop screen when plugged into monitors

That said it still has a stroke from time to time just not always

Something close to last week or week before.

Ah right, probably not a new thing then

Switching monitor setups has seemed pretty unstable in hyprland to me but I assumed that was more to do with Nvidia than anything

My ground for it working with hyprland but it required some hacking. I could ask him what he did if you really want hypr.

Personally I use gnome and plasma and both work great with everything. Discord has some jank but works... Barely

I’m going to buy an AMD video card this weekend solely so I don’t have to deal with the NVidia bullshit anymore. I’m eager to give hyperland a try.

I love hyprland, but plugging my laptop into a projector for a presentation and forgetting to mirror displays was a fun time. Hard to explain the default anime girl away without people knowing what you're talking about. Since then I've learned you can disable that background lmao

Oof that sounds hella unprofessional though

That’s the hyprland community, for good and mostly bad

https://github.com/hyprwm/Hyprland/issues/2930

I have a feeling most of these people are either NEETs or never used a work computer.

I'm on the gay side of the community (and have only seen Ghibli and Cowboy Beebop which takes away a ton of credentials). Still rough, but a tad better. Downloaded a premade setup from github because it's cute and left it with that. Outside of adding some keyboard shortcuts

It was just a presentation for peers in grad school. For a fun project unrelated to my thesis. Would never have used my personal for a work related presentation. Just a funny story nonetheless. Getting mad shit from buddies beats being fired or passed for promotion anyday lmao

Judging people's backgrounds is 100x more unprofessional imo unless they're like seriously questionable

Idk what specific image was shown. But anything described as "anime girl" could have strong csam vibes assuming this grad school student is older than 11 themselves.

For some reason its normalized in some parts of the Linux community to have sexualized images of children.

You could set certain ports to automatically mirror or set all other monitors to automatically mirror. The resolution will be the same as your primary though.

monitor=,preferred,auto,1,mirror,DP-1```

[hyprland wiki - monitors #extra args](https://wiki.hyprland.org/Configuring/Monitors/#extra-args)

Sounds like a hell of your own making. Always change the background to something generic. Like a nice tree. Always. Nobody gives a shit about trees.

This has long been the best advice. However, just in case you are not aware, some pretty important NVIDIA changes are expected to drop in the next 2 months. It will take a while to work into every distribution but NVIDIA should finally work as well as AMD.

Yes I know. I have read all about explicit sync. It's going to take at least a few months to trickle into the various packages and distributions and we're still trusting NVidia to give us a proper driver with it as well. And we're assuming there's nothing else that will cause yet more problems with Wayland/etc.

I'm at my wits end trying to be patient with them (on the order of years). I now understand why Linus flipped them off with a loud "F you".

How's the AMD drivers situation on Linux? I always used Nvidia since they have official drivers, but might change for the next card if AMD works better. I don't use Wayland so never ran into the issues.

If your AMD card is older than your latest linux distro release it's plug and play, no driver installation required
Wayland works pretty well on most desktop environments too

beware fresh released AMD cards in combination with long term release distros like Debian stable, you most likely will need the driver from the AMD website (not recommended)

Mesa is usually pretty quick to update, it's just that stable distros won't update mesa all that quickly. I assume most of them have some way to install a newer mesa from a community repo or something.

I'm using it on Plasma 6 with AMD graphics and so far it's going good. When I had Nvidia I had issues with electron based applications. Games have been running pretty good regardless of the GPU, though Forza horizon 5 wouldn't launch under Nvidia for some reason.

Did you have electron/chrome applications flicker? I've been dealing with that since switching to Nvidia (I didn't want to but Plex only supports GPU encoding on Linux with Nvidia).

Will probably be fixed with driver 555 next month (explicit sync support).

Yup, I'm cautiously optimistically waiting for it haha.

What distro out of curiosity been running a 3070 on nixos with hyprland/plasma6 and haven't had any issues

Arch with Plasma

Huh interesting I booted arch up to test and I'm not getting it there either I wonder if I got a miracle GPU or the only other thing is I use the linux zen kernel

I just want my steam link to work on KDE Wayland.

I just get a black screen with a mouse that I can't move with a connected steam controller

sunshine/moonlight works for me, even though steam link crashes after 10s

Ah, for me moonlight just "searching for connected computers" forever with no controller buttons working at all and no ability to cancel it to put in the IP of the sunshine PC.

Moonlight on my phone works fine though, moonlight on steam link seems to just have a problem.

I want to switch to get high refresh rates on my multi monitor setup. I tried recently again but I can't for the life of me get screen sharing working, which I need for work.

Edit: With some help here and a Slack update released yesterday to fix the problem, it's working in both Zoom and Slack!

What were you trying to screen share with?

Most of the apps people are using are Electron, which has supported Wayland and the pipewire screensharing for nearly 4 years. However since Chrome/Chromium doesn't enable Wayland by default, Electron won't. Which also means that no one tests it in their apps.

I've had such success just ignoring the apps and using the web client since that's up to date and doesn't require the app builders to enable features.

At least under Fedora.

You can also force apps to use Wayland via environment variables.

ELECTRON_OZONE_PLATFORM_HINT=wayland app

Alternatively you can use

app --ozone-platform-hint=wayland

Can you give some details about this? I can't find anything online about it.

Electron is chromium based but has own environment variables.

But sorry I think the env var was incomplete or wrong. Edited

Thanks, I got it running under Wayland with that (xeyes doesn't show it) but screenshare still isn't working. That's okay, I'll try again next year

What app? ... that is kinda relevant and you should open a Bug that they need to support pipewire portals for screenshare.

Or, as said, use the browser version.

Zoom runs fine in the browser, and it way less invasive. Keep in mind, that "screenshare works" that this app can record everything you do as long as it is running. And if it is a native app (no flatpak) then it can also start how it likes.

It's Slack, so Electron, and the browser version unfortunately doesn't support Huddle calls, which is what we use for all our calls and where I'd be screen sharing from.

Annyoing. If you are/were on KDE Plasma there is XWaylandVideobridge, which allows to share the screen by apps requesting access to the webcam, but getting a virtual input instead, which comes out of KDEs portal.

Yeah complex, but said to work. Apps need to run as X11 though.

I'm on GNOME, but thanks for the help. Getting me to dig deeper and figure out it's a known issue with Slack and not Wayland will help me going forward.

No, screensharing works really well. Only problem is if apps expect to show a preview themselves, like Firefox. Then you get annoying duplicate portal requests, still works.

However since no one tests it I've found them to be really buggy. Hence why I suggested just using the web app.

Edit: I just updated Zoom and it's working now! Zoom doesn't work at all Slack gives me one window at a time and black screens for Firefox windows. I will try both of these in the browser and see if I get anywhere.

Your work app may be electron based (which is a bit too common nowadays), and until they update to electron 29, wayland won't probably work.

(or until they add xwayland video bridge, but the former option is better than the latter.

You need xdg-desktop-portal, the desktop portal of your DE and a modern Browser.

I didn't know I needed the desktop portal for my DE as well, I've installed that now. Between that and updating Zoom it works on Zoom now, thanks.

is Debian shipping with it default yet?

while Debian is still deciding if they ship with Wayland by default or not, Fedora and KDE are planning to already completely drop x11 for their next release (they ship Wayland by default)

Fedora 40 with kde plasma 6 dropped a day or two ago, and they did remove x11, you have to get it from the repo in case you want it, otherwise, it only comes and is planned for wayland, which I believe is great, for once it does seem like the year of wayland

For Fedora I’m not surprised, but KDE is considering dropping X11 support already?

Yes, because Plasma 6 is so flawless on Wayland. /s

Fedora should drop every other DE except KDE. That would really free up some resources.

It would also uncheck a lot of accessibility requirements that RHEL in particular needs.

I was kidding about Fedora but Red Hat can actually afford to do that. They're not a generalist distro, they can and should offer their customers a very specific desktop stack.

Part of the reason red hat uses gnome is because it is the only desktop that meets many accessibility requirements. It would be a huge engineering effort to bring any other desktop up to par in that regard. Most graphical Linux software is really far behind in accessibility.

It doesn't have to be KDE. That was just the joke for Fedora.

Unlike Fedora, Red Hat can actually afford to use a single DE and a very specific graphics stack and to get rid of X completely. They don't have to support the full breadth and legacy of Linux desktop apps. For Red Hat machines the desktop is just a means to an end – it facilitates access to certain GUI tools.

I'm still struggling with remote desktop software and other alternatives such as sunshine. KDE connect input sharing is inconsistent on wayland, but they will probably fix that eventually. xwaylandvideobridge is great when it works, but currently has an issue with eating input invisibly. Also, some things just seem to be kinda wonky. For example screen sharing portal when sharing my screen in a browser seems to open twice. Same with obs. Still no good virtual keyboard. If onboard worked on wayland that would be perfect.

Still no good virtual keyboard. If onboard worked on wayland that would be perfect.

Not perfect integration but with a workaround Onboard is somewhat usable.

On my Steam Deck I'm mostly using Steam's keyboard with Maliit for logins and the lock screen and Onboard in case I need special keys.

Yes the duplicate portals are a mess. On Signal desktop there are 4 portal requests and they all say something different.

HDR is only experimental on gnome and kde with weston not having an implementation.

I think 10 bit color depth hasn't even been worked on much.

VRR I think is about finished although X11 has it too.

And the Nvidia wayland support is slowly improving although still full of bugs and stability issues.

VRR on X11 doesn’t work with multi screen setup, so it might be broken for a lot of people

With explicit the protocol and the Nvidia patch for it next July, most Nvidia problems will be solved

10 bit color is supported in wlroots(sway) and hyprland, can't speak for other desktops.

I still can’t stream screens via discord and my autoclicker relies on a lib that only works with X

Discord would work if they ever updated their electron version.

Or just use it in a web browser. I don't really want to run their proprietary spyware outside of a sandbox anyways.

It works fine with Firefox funnily enough

For streaming there is Wayland to X11 bridge. I have been using it regularly with MS Teams and it works great.

It enters a loop in discord and doesn't work. There was a bug recently I was reading about it. Makes you go insane. All the other alternatives basically make you lose the krysp and auto microphone sound detection.

Or Vesktop, which is a client mod that allows streaming (even with audio)

The problem is it's completely unwatchable. Streams are 2 fps no matter how low or high quality you set the stream :c

missing a mountain of accessibility tools

Like?

If there is something missing, add it either as an issue or a PR in the project.

https://github.com/mpsq/arewewaylandyet

It would help your case when saying that it's not ready. It might also inspire people to fix it if they see something that is missing.

please don't post that site. I just need a few more things to work well with Wayland like Nvidia Drivers.

Last updated: 31 October 2022<

Remote Desktop

We have moonligh/sunshinefor that

What I want is remote windows

And I want them on wayland, on X, on my android phone, in the meta quest 3, in my browser and on windows (native, not wsl)

I've been using it for my daily driver for work and casual gaming with no issues for 4 months now (Garuda Linux)

XFCE doesn't support it yet so I'm not on it.

Also last I tried, autoclickers weren't working

I haven't tried it but the website lists ydotool as an alternative.

Lol XFCE. If your reference is a bunch of software thats sole purpose is to be "traditional", stable and not change, then well.

Btw LXQt will have complete Wayland support soon.

XFCE is my preferred DE when I'm using one. It's got a long lineage going back to FVWM and the setup remains consistent between new updates. I appreciate how it stays out of the way.

For anybody else following along, XFCE is working on Wayland support. In fact, the only component not already supporting Wayland in Git is XFWM4 itself. Wayland will ship officially as part of the 4.20 release.

They are creating an abstraction library that will allow XFCE to support both X and Wayland. Other desktop environments are going to use it as well.

Already daily driving it on my laptop, which uses AMD graphics, and my work laptop, which uses Intel graphics. For Nvidia, there's missing explicit sync (which should be fixed soon), and Steam completely freaking out (might get fixed by explicit sync). Kwin also seems a bit unstable on Nvidia, but I haven't tested it for extended periods of time.

I also have a computer with display on an Nvidia card via reverse prime, which suffers performance issues on Wayland. Might be improved on Plasma 6, but that computer runs OpenSUSE Leap, so it won't get that for some time.

There is also the issue of picture-in-picture, but that can be worked around with Kwin rules.

Yes

Even on Nvidia. I'm on NixOS w/ Hyprland on a RTX 3080 in reverse sync on a multimonitor setup, and have no issues.

Everything just works most of the time. When it doesn't, updating the driver usually fixes the issue.

wayland doesn't support diagonal monitors

yeah it does it has from the start.

is there compositor support? is there a way to get kde to rotate my monitor to a specific degree via cli?

keep in mind I have no idea if there are real use cases for diagonal monitors, I just duct taped an accelerometer to the back of my monitor and can only get it to rotate in 90 degree increments with kscreendoctor and thought it would be funny if the picture was just always upright

If I remember correctly, the rotation in smaller degree increments could be used to correct some distortions on some really old CRTs that have scan lines that are skewed diagonally.

I don't think I even own a laptop that would work with a CRT nowadays.

Slightly OT but hasn't Fedora gone all in on Wayland? Maybe it's an attempt drive critical mass of adoption and concentrate developers' minds to closing the gap between now and fully production ready. As such, maybe moving to Fedora will net you the best support and smoothest Wayland implantation.

No, Workstation is still supporting XOrg and there just is a change proposal for to drop Xorg on Workstation 41.

The KDE Spin and the Atomic KDE Variant have no wayland anymore, but there is a COPR repo and you can enable that and reinstall the packages.

hasn't Fedora gone all in on Wayland?

It has not and it will not in the immediate future (~1 year).

None of the large, general-use distros will go further than to offer Wayland by default, for now.

It does not cover anywhere near 100% of use cases and, until it does, removing the only other option would be a show-stopper for a sizable part of their userbase.

It's not in xfce yet, so no. Also I have some weird bugs with the UI of plasma glitching out on LMDE/Debian.

We've come a long way but we're not yet at stability.

If I could use xfce4-panel on Hyprland instead of the dissatisfying bars currently available that would be so clutch. It's what I used back on i3

For Wayland, I think you need the unreleased xfce-panel from GitHub ( 4.19+ ).

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On KDE Plasma, my only outstanding bug is that the "window shade" button on my window controls is broken. Too bad since I use that feature a lot.

On GNOME everything seems to work as far as I can tell. It's pretty smooth!

The window shade problem is keeping me from Wayland. AFAIU there's currently no commitment to ever fix it on Wayland, it's only a maybe.

For anyone interested, it's being tracked here.

I remember a showstopper a while back being that you can't resize the title bar while shaded. That's already the current behavior on x11, so I would be fine with that caveat continuing if it meant wayland support.

I use an accessibility tool called Talon Voice. It is x.org only. Will the shift to Wayland kill these tools, or is it a case of the developer needing to rewrite for wayland?

On X11 apps can scan and read what they want. This is not even very good, but developers dont need to implement accessibility really, just make all text scannable.

If this is a screenreader you are talking about.

Apps need to send the reader specific texts that shouls be read, like push notifications. And this needs to be implemented, because on Wayland no app can just scan everything.

So rather than having one single app that deals with screen reading, it's now down to every individual application to make accessibility a priority.

Huge retrograde step.

We can all agree that authors should all value accessibility, but we also all know that they won't.

GUI frameworks should implement this, just like any app built on GTK, Qt, Iced or possibly others have native wayland support.

But yes I agree this is not a good situation. There should be something like "accessibility permission" on Android, where apps can basically read anything.

So because they won't, those who need accessibility, will require x.org.... forever?

That's one of the huge problems with Wayland. The core protocol is super minimalistic so it falls to each and every individual app to (re)implement everything: accessibility, clipboard, keyboard, mouse, compositing etc. etc.

The fact this was done in the name of security is a solution looking for a problem. Inter-window communication was never a stringent security issue on Linux.

It's like advising people to wear helmets in their everyday life. Sure, in theory it's a great idea and would greatly benefit those who slip and fall, or a flower pot falls on their heads, or are in a car accident and so on. But in practice it would be a huge inconvenience 99.99% of the time.

The largest part of all Linux apps out there will never get around to (re)implementing all this basic functionality just to deal with a 0.01% chance of security issues. Wherever convenience fights security, convenience wins. Wayland will either come around or become a bubble where 99% of Linux userland doesn't work.

it falls to each and every individual app to (re)implement everything: accessibility, clipboard, keyboard, mouse, compositing etc. etc.

I haven't read so much nonsense packed in a single sentence in a while. No, apps don't implement any of these things themselves. How the fuck would apps simultaneously "implement compositing themselves" and also neither have access to the "framebuffer" (which isn't even the case on Xorg!) nor information about other windows on the screen?

Please, don't rant about things you clearly don't know anything about.

I truly believe the answer to this question is going to be yes around the May - June timeframe when Nvidia releases their explicit sync enabled drivers. All aboard the Wayland hype train babyyyy!

Nah. Wayland is buggy as hell on AMD too. That's not the only issue.

Hadn't had a single issue on my AMD igpu. If you experience issues it's most likely coming from a different source than Wayland itself, it might be worth tracking it down and reporting the issue, so it can be fixed in the future.

Last updated: 31 October 2022

A little out of date. But still the best source I know of 👍

Anti Commercial-AI license

What do you think you're doing by putting that link in every comment? Lemmy doesn't have a terms of service that assigns a license to your text anyways. So if you just say nothing you own your comment and they can't use it. If they cared about the licence they would already not be able to use it.

What do you think you're doing caring about me putting a comment in my link? If it bothers you so much, block me so I don't have to read your inane whining. I do the same with people like you.

Anti Commercial-AI license

I don't follow this stuff at all, so I have no idea what the advantages are of Wayland that I'd actually see and benefit from in my daily use. That being said, I saw everyone saying it's better, so I tried switching to it. After rebooting, my PC just showed a black screen. I needed to use a TTY to revert back to xorg. So no, as of right now I'm not using Wayland.

I use Hyprland daily and it works great. The only issue I have is that PhpStorm has some minor issues. Being a Java app, it runs via XWayland. It mostly works, but sometimes menus and popups get confused and won't stay open.

I am using Wayland and the only issue that is a bit annoying is that I can't use fractional scaling because it breaks FreeRDP clients. Both Remmina and FreeRDP have issues when scaling is active. For now I just increased the font size in KDE its not perfect but good enough until this is hopefully fixed.

I'd love to find an alternative to xdotool's auto type feature (or ClickPaste from Windows).

There is wtype but unfortunately it doesn't work in KDE nor GNOME because neither of them support the right protocol. I've run into the " hasn't implemented $PROTOCOL" a few times in the past and it's certainly a bit annoying.

Aside from when that comes up, I don't really have any complaints. A tool we used for work was never going to be fully functional on Wayland because of its dependence on Xinerama (I think) but thankfully we've moved away from it.

I like ydotool, uses a systemd user service, but fulfills my needs of KB shortcuts to paste text into vnc sessions

Oh that is perfect, thank you! Funnily enough, pasting into VNC sessions is exactly what I needed something like this for as well - you've taken a lot of future pain out of my workday!

That site's great.

The main thing I wish for is for ffmpeg to start supporting the wlroots screengrabbing api.

Barrier

I miss being able to just use one mouse and keyboard for everything

Wake me up when there's a working, native non-wsl waypipe client with sound for windows and android, that can hand off applications seamlessly to other hosts. (Think two computers, two monitors that feel like one).

Also working screensaver and monitor power options

Also working screensaver and monitor power options

?

My first experience in wayland, us discovering I couldn't control monitor sleep/standby function. I found how to reinstall X and managed to escape it since.

That sounds like problem with specific software configuration, like missing packages in some distro or something being badly built. There’s nothing about Wayland that would prevent it from working.

Tried xset, not compatible. Tried searching equivalent command, there was none. That was in 2022.

Wayland is not a standalone server like Xorg and it doesn’t have standard utilities to control stuff like DPMS. That functionality goes to compositors that are effectively individual Wayland server implementations. Compositors can provide utilities to control display, and they usually do. For example, on KDE Wayland you can call kscreen-doctor --dpms off, wlroots compositors (Sway, Wayfire, Hyprland,…) have inter-compatible tools, like swaymsg output DP-1 dpms off. If that’s what you meant anyway.

There really should be a front end script that has uniform command line parameters, finds what your compositor is, translate the command line arguments and send them.

I dont know what that means. Normally the monitor turns off when the PC stops sending a signal. In KDE i can easily configure when to dim, turn off, lock etc. the screen.

I needed to do that from the console, xset didn't work. As far as I could tell there was no other command.

What did you want to do?

A command to place the monitor in standby mode

What does this mean? Like unplugging without unplugging? Keeping one screen active and only turning off the other one?

I mean in the KDE monitor options I can choose [mirror,extend to left,extend to right,only external,only internal] so this is 100% possible.

Something like that yes, I want to turn off the side monitors with a single button press.

This will be possible and likely available as a command for your specific compositor. What are you using?

It was the one that came default with ubuntu 22.10 But as I have stated in my initial post, the feature had been restored by reinstalling Xwindow Also, I feel that the commands equivalent to

xset dpms force off
xset dpms force standby
xset dpms force suspend

Should be the same regardless which wayland variant you are using.

No the implementations are per-compositor. The fact that this worked on X is due to.XOrg being a huge blob that every window manager relied on.

Look for the command in Mutter (GNOME), Kwin (KDE), or whatever DE you use.

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Most comments have been positive, so I'm gonna list all my issues. Using endeavours with KDE 6.2 and the AUR explicit sync patch, 5800 ryzen CPU and 3080 NVIDIA GPU.

The discord xwayland app can't share screen, and the waycord app that fake chromiums the web interface that let's you share screen has the sound bug out sometimes with large sound spikes. So if I want to share the screen I have to open the second app and then close it fast to minimize the chances I annoy my friends.

Window positioning. It almost seems a flagship Wayland issue. I would love if apps remembered on which screen and position I left them the next time I open them, telegram opens in the middle of the primary monitor, and I have to drag it to the right of the secondary one every time I switch on the PC.

Shutting down in any way that is not opening the console and typing reboot or "shutdown now" takes way way longer and sometimes bugs out. This might not be a Wayland issue, but a KDE one.

The tdrop program that let's you interact with any terminal as if it were a dropdown terminal doesn't work in Wayland, and it just isn't the same to open a terminal in the normal way, is lame. Foot is a good terminal for sure but I want the dropdown effect.

I can't think of anything else right now, most explicit sync issues I had were fixed with the AUR patch, so of anyone has those issues wait until the real patch comes around and they will get fixed. It was quite annoying without the patch though, some programs glitched visually hard and several games were unplayable due to the heavy ghosting (dark souls 2 and dragon's dogma 2, for example). I'll add to this comment if I remember anything else. Even if the issue was recently fixed it's good to have a list of stuff so that people can check it out and confirm that it's fixed, for posteriority.

You mean Plasma 6.0.2, not 6.2 - that will be released in a year.

Use X11 to Wayland Video bridge to get screen sharing working with any X11 app that can’t talk to desktop-portal/PipeWire (such as Discord)

What’s worth noting is that applications, as of now can’t affect window positioning in any way. It’s all about how compositor (kwin_wayland in this case) is placing them. Personally I don’t care that much because I’ve got shortcuts to quickly move windows between screens or desktops. You might consider looking at window rules - they’re pretty neat on KDE.

Shutting down? What???

On the tdrop thing, I wouldn’t expect it to be possible in near future, but how about Yakuake?

Yeah, 6.0.2, the version available in the arch repos.

I'll check the video bridge, thanks! -- Update on this, apparently I was already using it since it ships by default with KDE, it seems to be a discord bug. Weirdly enough, going back to an older flatpak version (0.0.42) fixed the issue. I'll have to check the updates to see if they fix it.

Thanks on the window rules mention too. -- Update on this, you are a saint. I added a rule for the telegram window in KDE so that it remembers its position, and it simply works. https://imgur.com/a/zrvbRPI

Yeah, idk, when I try to use the GUI it takes way longer than the CLI command somehow, and sometimes it blocks itself. It must be something related to some programming hanging itself and the system trying to wait until it stops, but I can't be bothered, it's way faster to open a terminal and just typing the command or opening KDE connect and pressing the "shutdown now" shortcut. Not a Wayland issue though.

I did use yakuake in the past but call it stupid brain, but once I read that alacritty was faster and I customized it to my liking, and then checking that foot was a little bit faster, I can't go back. It's stupid, I know that most of the use I give the terminal is actually spent on the commands themselves and that I can give transparency and remove window borders in yakuake, I'm just pissy that my fancy combo stopped working.

The tdrop program that let's you interact with any terminal as if it were a dropdown terminal doesn't work in Wayland, and it just isn't the same to open a terminal in the normal way, is lame. Foot is a good terminal for sure but I want the dropdown effect.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Yakuake

It's its own terminal but I find it to be pretty good and it works with Wayland.

I did use Yakuake in the past, I might give it a try again maybe, it's just not my dear foot terminal compiles from scratch, you know?

I still use X11 in my work computer because I need keepassxc to auto-type password to non-web programs.

I've been using wayland on my laptop somce the new year and beyond some driver issues that were purely on AMD's side (and not entirely Wayland exclusive either) I've had no problems.

Stuff like application scaling works so much nicer on Wayland, and X11 just wasn't very stable when handling fullscreen games to the point where I'd set games to borderless or even windowed mode to stop it crapping out on alt-tab

Didn't you love it when your screen locked and the full screen app had control over your keyboard and mouse!

Wondering if anyone has an alternative to cursr. That's really the only thing stopping me from making the switch to Wayland full time. I use to make my 2 displays that are different resolutions play nicer

I recently tried to get Wayland working. Followed a simple guide to enable some NVIDIA boot parameter. Somehow it fucked my complete grub and I couldn't boot until I messed around a fair bit with live usbs. Cost me a whole evening.

So I guess what Wayland is missing is normal support from the GPU manufacturers.

Nvidia didn't want to play nicely and give standard APIs.

Their work around was other extensions that don't actually do what's needed, but sort of works in some scenarios.

All the GPUs I've used work fine, it's a Nvidia throwing it's toys out the pram situation which should hopefully get resolved as they open source the high level drivers and so the correct APIs can be implemented.

Well, Nvidia initially didn't intend to support Wayland at all. They're being dragged into it kicking and screaming, one step at a time.

Nvidia don't give a shit about Wayland. The reason they're adding explicit sync is because it was implemented in the kernel. They don't care how it will be used or by what.

From NVIDIA, really. AMD and Intel GPUs work out of the box.

I don't know how you messed that up, usually the switch is as easy as it can be, and the issue comes when using it, for its lack of explicit sync, causing apps to flicker, and frame pacing in games to be plain bad

This is being fixed in the next two months thankfully

Edit: Taking about Nvidia wayland support here, AMD and Intel are great

With Windows getting sleazier and sleazier, I was really hoping Linux would be in a less janky place than it was when I tried to main it a decade ago.

Lemmy has made it clear that it isn't.

Lmao what

This is clearly bait

Drivers are still a shit show. The drivers in question have changed, but there's still extremely common hardware with poor support. I know this is the hardware vendors fault but that doesn't change my experience as a user -- I need my hardware to work.

It's still extremely fragmented. Yes, this is often a good thing because it let's you pick the features you want but I'm not interested in comparing and configuring 14 different tiling window managers.

It's still fragile outside of the terminal. I constantly see posts and comments about peoples OS becoming unbootable or show stopping issues they just can't fix without hopping to another distro or nuking their install from orbit. The 18th most popular distro seems to be popular simply because it makes it easy to roll back fucked updates or sidegrades.

This stuff might be fine for people who love to tinker but I can't afford to have my PC shit the bed when I need it for work and I'm not interested in having "chill and play some games" involuntarily replaced with "fix the bootloader".

And I can't help but feel like the "anybody who isn't sucking off Linux must be bait" mentality ensures this is a pit the scene will never escape from.

There's absolutely no chance you haven't seen the posts describing these problems. You're commenting on one right now

More bait.

I have to do far more tinkering with Windows to make it usable than I do with Linux. With Linux I typically install it and then change one or two keyboard shortcuts (not even necessary, just a preference).

I wish Windows was as easy. I feel like in windows you always have to go onto powershell or the registry to fix something. Why can't it just work?

And don't get me started on how often you have to nuke your install when you run into issues (which, since this is windows we're talking about, is often). Seriously, contact MS support about anything. Their 'support' is: "have you tried a system restore? Yeah? Ok then, reinstall Windows, bye."

The drivers are awful and you have to search them all out individually rather than all just being automatically included. I've not installed a driver on Linux manually in a decade.

Installing software is a complicated minefield. Why can't Windows just have a proper software centre?

I wonder if Windows will ever be as usable as Linux is. Because right now it's not improving.

Whatever helps you cope.

You're the one coping lmao. Look if you want to spend more time diagnosing issues with your PC than using it, then Windows is a fantastic choice and I'm happy for you.

I guess that 4% market share is because it's just so good. The Linux community couldn't even pull that off without a multi-billion dollar corporation helping them with software compatibility and stability.

Feel free to keep making fun of Windows though -- I haven't made an operating system part of my personality so it doesn't upset me in the slightest.

4%? Linux has 6.3%+ on the desktop. Then there's 6.5% unknown which likely includes a disproportionately high amount Linux systems too, what with Linux users being a lot more likely to obfuscate system information from trackers.

Then on mobile, Linux has 72%.

And Windows is popular because it came first and they have a monopoly. Once you have a monopoly, it's easy to keep. Is Comcast so popular because it's good, or is it because it's the only real choice for a load of people?

Well you clearly have made your OS part of your personality, because here you are vehemently defending it and shitting on other OSes.

I don't really care. If you somehow enjoy using Windows, despite the myriad of issues, then cool beans. Use it. I'm not really sure why you're so insecure about it that you need to come here and tell us, though.

4%? Linux has 6.3%+ on the desktop

Don't worry, I'm sure those statistics are just "bait" and it's actually 99%

Then on mobile, Linux has 72%.

So it has far more traction when the "bait" things I mentioned don't apply? Fuck, who'd have thought?

Well you clearly have made your OS part of your personality, because here you are vehemently defending it and shitting on other OSes.

Vehemently defending it by saying nothing positive about it. The only reason I kept talking is because you were such a fuckwit in your reply.

I'm not really sure why you're so insecure about it that you need to come here and tell us, though.

You don't think there's some kind of clue in the post when I wished it was in a better state?

Don't worry, I'm sure those statistics are just "bait" and it's actually 99%

What? It's 6.3%+. We don't know the precise amount due to the high amount of "unknowns", but 6.3% is the minimum assuming zero of the "unknown" configurations are Linux, which seems unlikely.

Then on mobile, Linux has 72%.

So it has far more traction when the "bait" things I mentioned don't apply? Fuck, who'd have thought?

You can strawman all you want, the market share is 72%. End of discussion. "Nooo but that doesn't countttt" isn't an argument.

Vehemently defending it by saying nothing positive about it. The only reason I kept talking is because you were such a fuckwit in your reply.

You've been defending indirectly. We get it, you use Windows btw. Nobody cares.

You don't think there's some kind of clue in the post when I wished it was in a better state?

You spread misinformation and flew into a frenzied rage lol. You don't want it to be in a better state, you just came here to post bait.

Oh, I get it now. You just find tiny threads and pull them as melodramatically as you can. It's a hallmark of manipulative partners and untreated BPD that I should he seen sooner.

Minor criticism is turned into "this person must be a troll trying to bait us into anger" and even something you yourself described as "defending indirectly" became "vehemently defending" and of course I was in a "frenzied rage", probably because I used the word "fuck".

Then if that doesn't work, resort to the usual lazy tricks. Take figurative speech literally, accuse people of logical fallacies that don't apply, do a little bit of mind reading and then declare yourself the winner.

If I was actually a troll, I couldn't have asked for a better reaction. You're the worst ambassador for Linux I've ever seen.

I'm not your partner, though you probably wish I was.

You got angry and butthurt, started spreading misinformation and bait.

I'm not trying to convert you to Linux. Nobody cares whether you use it or not. Stick to your broken, complicated, and unstable OS.

I must be really interesting to talk to considering you won't stop begging for my attention. Is that what this is? You've already alluded to me being like a partner. I'm not your partner and I don't want to fuck you. Go use Tinder or something.

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@PoliticalAgitator @TheGrandNagus Well, it's mostly because Linux is way newer to the computer scene than microsoft's OS for instance. When #linux started out, computers using msdos were already being shipped for over a decade, and so they were the de facto standard, and it takes time for people to switch to a better product if they are used to another one and have the ecosystem keeps them in (that's the main reason people keep buying overpriced apple products)

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