I read the whole article because I had a sneaking suspicion this was probably the biggest (and most important to drivers) upgrade. Although I will be fair and say the ability to walk through the vehicle to get packages instead of having to circle around to the back is pretty fucking sweet as well.
basically how i see it with delivery trucks, you need a few things.
heated/air vented seats for driver comfort along with AC.
easy access to the back of the truck
as well as room to stand in the truck, because the driver is going to have to constantly get in and out of the driver seat, so being able to get out easier/faster is good.
And aโฆ. checks notesโฆ.. giant FUCKING window.
High visibility is probably a good idea for a vehicle designed for residential deliveries.
Yes. It looks like it was designed to have great visibility of kids in front, unlike most pickups and other trucks today.
*squints* Where??
You have to zoom in a bunch to see it. But its there.
.....oh. OOOHHHH
Yes, I'm 6ft and have to hunch over in the back of the LLV, or squat down while re-sorting packages. The inner compartment door is one of the best things about the LLV since the heaters suck and it helps keep the heat in the cabin, plus the ease of access.
I haven't gotten to use one of these new trucks because I'm in a smaller office which will likely be one of the last to get them but they did try and get us the newer Metris vans which are horrible. No inner compartment door so you have to constantly get out and no adjustability to the mail tray.
EVs for service vehicles that do a lot of local starts and stops is a no-brainer. Should have been done a long time ago. It's no wonder that they're getting good reception, after years of working with worn out equipment. I regularly see tow trucks with a Grumman.
Trumpโs guy Louis deJoy did his damndest to prevent USPS from adopting EVs.
It's Biden's guy too, did nothing to change him.
Do some reading on why Biden can't get rid of him. It'll make you smarter, I promise.
Nobody is asking Biden to fire DeJoy. But Biden has had the ability to replace him since May 2022. The Board of Governors decides the Postmaster General. A simple majority vote can change the Postmaster General. The current make up is
3 Republicans
3 Democrats
1 independent
2 vacancies
Only two of those people are Trump nominees. Biden nominated a Republican and a Democrat in May 2022 when he could have just nominated one Democrat which would have given Democrats the majority. Only six governors are required for quorum.
So yes, DeJoy is absolutely Biden's guy too. The annoying thing is that Democrats in the Senate are fine with it. Biden has two nominees that have been waiting on confirmation for a while now.
Let's not provide cover for bullshit. USPS governor confirmations cost no political capital.
So Obama let it happen. Based on the history of the positions not being filled. Democrats let Trump have the right to select DeJoy.
Same story as the SCOTUS.
"On November 14, 2014 (with effect on February 1, 2015), the board appointed Megan Brennan postmaster general, to succeed Patrick R. Donahoe. In December 2014, the extended term of Mickey D. Barnett was to expire, while the Senate had still not confirmed five nominees submitted by then-president Obama.[6]"
Your chosen quote says it was the Republican senate who blocked the appointment.
After 2014, democrats sat on it for 6 years.
You don't know anything ๐
There's a bunch of electric garbage trucks in my city. My kid is obsessed with any heavy machinery these days so we were watching one and I got to talking to the driver. He told me that he absolutely loves them. They are easy to operate, they accelerate fast, they seem to break down less.
I have seen them accelerate, they go hard. And it's just so fucking cool to have a big dump truck be silent?! I cannot get over how happy it makes me that they're just chilling silently when they're stopped. Makes my mornings more peaceful.
I'm surprised (and very happy) that the driver loves it. Getting truckers on board with electric semis is a huge challenge, so if other heavy truck drivers like their electrics that will hopefully help win them over.
Most of the drivers of these are also waste collectors. He told me he appreciates that it's less hassle to operate. No gear shifting, no noise, good acceleration, they feel more nimble.
I suppose range and accessible of charging ports in particular would be a concern for a long haul drivers but that's not an issue if you have a relatively (range wise) tour through the city, and get back to and central hub every day.
I'm not too surprised. It must be quite unpleasant working around a noisy piece of machinery like that.
American truckers especially love their FREEDOM to a stupid degree. I do get the lifestyle of being a road cowboy never knowing where your next haul is going to.
But theyโre also a dying breed, new drivers want to get home now and then and not live in a truck for months without seeing their family.
There was a good documentary about this a while ago, canโt remember where.
And itโs just so fucking cool to have a big dump truck be silent?! I cannot get over how happy it makes me that theyโre just chilling silently when theyโre stopped. Makes my mornings more peaceful.
This in itself is worth the change, reducing noise in residential areas (and others) would be a huge improvement in quality of life for both people and wildlife.
They and transit buses should have been the driver (heh) for hybrids at least.
The last Grumman LLV rolled off the assembly line 30 years ago, and has been probably been driven six days a week, except federal holidays, ever since. Iโm not surprised theyโre on their last legs.
Yes, credit where it's due for them lasting. Those are like the COBOL running banks and government stuff, never intended to last forever, yet still being used because it's easier and cheaper (well, probably not in the long run).
Honestly anything would have been better than those old iron dukes. They were dated in the 80โs
This article does that annoying thing where it uses acronyms Initialisms without previously using the full verbiage at least once.
BEV - Battery-Electric Vehicle
NGDV - Next Generation Delivery Vehicle
LLV - Long Life Vehicle
Initialisms, technically. But thank you nevertheless.
TIL about initialisms, which are like acronyms but when you pronounce the initial letters individually instead of like a spelled out word. DVD being an initialism, versus SCUBA being an acronym.
Eh, BEV could go either way
Who the hell calls a BEV a woman's name?
Bev sounds like you're shortening Beverly.
BEV and you know it's a vehicle.
Good point, why say BEV when you could say BEV
TOMATO vs [tสฐษฬฅหmeษชษพoส]
And yet thereโs no html tag, and it hurts me.
fixed ty
To translate further:
BEV - self explanatory never mind
NGDV - Oshkosh Next Generation Delivery Vehicle, The new mail truck that looks like a duck
LLV - The Grumman Long Life Vehicle, the classic mail truck.
and as a bonus
FFV - The Ford-Utilimaster Flexible Fuel Vehicle, the early 2000s mail truck that looks like the LLV that you buy from wish.
To be fair I immediately assumed NGDV was Next Generation Delivery Vehicle. idk how, I just did
Wtf
My dogs know the sound of Mailman Mike's truck when it's a couple blocks away. They go outside to get a treat from him every day when he drives by. I'm guessing they won't do this once he switches to a quiet EV.
Electric motors gave a quiet high pitched whine that will be extremely easy for dogs to hear and will the mailman is coming once they catch on.
So glad to see the upgrade actually has quality of life features for the drivers beyond not needing to breathe in exhaust fumes all day!
Hey American modern pick up truck heads. Notice how normal the bonnet is? Notice how you can SEE enough to not run people over? This is a true utility vehicle. Look how massive this bad boy is without being a death machine ๐
but it doesn't have enough sharp edges i feel like. what if i want to slice a kid in half?
You're right. Literally unplayable
It's also absolutely adorable ๐
(which is probably why they'd hate it ๐)
I have a mini cargo van as my everyday car that can move quite a bit of cargo, but I also bottom out if I go on a road that's too bumpy.
The family truck has the clearance to go off the pavement.
But the notion you can only have high clearance by making your hood so massive to the point you can't see your child as you run them over in your own driveway, doesn't make sense.
I'd strongly encourage you to give the video a go.
These trucks are now infesting my streets to (Australia) to a lesser degree. It's an arms race that really needs to be stopped. I hope you consider some of the points made in the video.
Omg, I love them.
And if that is not a Trucky McTruckyface I dont know what is.
"The BEV variant has an estimated range of 70 mi (110 km) and a computed consumption of 1.34 kWโ h/mi (25.2 mpgโe). Although using the air conditioner was not expected to affect the range, using the heater was expected to reduce range by up to half. Based on the typical distance driven, it was assumed that only 20% of the battery state of charge would be used each day for most NGDVs; analysis of USPS mail carrier routes demonstrated the all-electric variant's range could accommodate 95% of all routes."
Is this not the car from Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs?
Iโm actually shocked at the inefficiency of the electric powertrain tbh. An F-150 Lightning gets twice the distance per wh, a Model Y is quadruple. Iโm not entirely sure if itโs just simply the size, but the lightning has a comparable gvwr. Just seems weird to me
I wonder how they calculated the range. If it's representative of the real world drive cycle these will experience, the estimate might not be too far off. A postal route is constant low speed stop and go. Regen is much more effective at higher speeds, so they're probably dumping most of their kenetic energy to hear via friction brakes. Suspect their drive cycle is going to be something like an endless cycle of 25 kw acceleration, rest, 25 kw acceleration, rest, etc.
I bet itโs this exactly. Cars get more efficient metrics on highway vs city start and stop. If the vehicle ONLY starts and stops it must be terrible, even if these have regen brakes.
Maybe these people are actually reporting the real world mileage with AC turned on and constant stops to deliver mail, as opposed to Ford who is financially incentivized to exaggerate mileage in optimal conditions.
So, I was curious and did some digging on the old LLV. Apparently it has a 13.5 gallon tank, and the vehicle is rated at 17mpg, but in actual use it gets more like 8-10mpg. So taking the worst case of 8, that's about 100 mile range, so the NGDV isn't really all that much worse. I'm guessing that's going to cover the majority of routes, with the few outliers being covered by the gas powered versions.
I mean how many miles a day are most routes? Why order bigger specs if you don't need them? I can't imagine most carriers go more than 20 mi a day. I am curious though, I'm sure someone's crunched the numbers on it.
100 in 2024 is not a big launch. That is 3 second egg soft type of soft launch.
It's not as fast as I'd like either, but it's a lot better than the original USPS plan to replace them with diesel trucks.
I'm not against the swap to EV but that is one Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs looking ass truck.
The unusual look is to make it easier to see around the front of the vehicle, which is especially important if you are stopping and starting.
The original design didn't have a hood and looked a but more like a mini bus. Can't remember why they added the hood, but it was a combination of different things including not having a flat front that increases the chance of killing people vs letting them roll up on a short hood. I think wheel placement was another part so the side door to get in an out could be closer to the ground.
I kinda love how ugly they are in a utilitarian kind of way.
Ditto. Like, I think it'll become iconic in the same way the LLV is ugly-iconic. I just like it when government stuff so obviously prioritizes function over form.
It might also be for a radiator to cool the battery and/or act as a heat pump for the AC/heat. At least, I hope they are using a heatpump.
Null
Itโs ugly af. Was that a project requirement or something? It looks like it has a fucking underbite lol.
drivers need to stand up at full height inside for ease of use
drivers, when seated, need to see very close to the ground what is in front of them
drivers are not all the same torso height. Men are usually taller than women so you need a really tall windshield for very tall seated drivers, and very sharp and short hood for very short drivers.
Its ugly, but is a very VERY functional design. I'd rather mail carriers are comfortable in their ride than feeling stylish.
From an article I read last week, it's an accessibility thing. Front window needs to be low enough for short carriers, and the vehicle needs to be tall enough for a tall carrier to stand in.
Looks silly, but pretty well thought out.
The first batch is possibly arriving in one city. (Pics or it didn't happen, of course. AP delivers!) Well, that's nice... at least they actually exist?! (That's a bit of a low bar.) But congrats to the first drivers of these little ducks.
I'm worried it's going to take another decade or three for the trucks to actually arrive in the numbers needed. Hopefully the USPS can survive our deplorable politics until then. They are invaluable for small businesses and keeping all mail couriers competitive.
Thanks! I was actually cleaning up my comment (and fully RTFA) when I saw that AP link in middle there. Actual photos, great to see.
They do look like ducks! ๐ฆ
you can tell they didn't have appearance in mind.
...and they shouldn't. It's a government service vehicle, form and function over aesthetics.
They could've bought a fleet of EVs off the shelf but they would'n't've been fit for service and more expensive per mile/year of use.
I'm glad your text was that big I almost couldn't read it
I love it they look like ducks ๐ฆ
Theyโre totally going to have to do that wrap.
I'd dig that so much ๐
Do they love them because they're electric or because they finally got a new truck?
Because they have Air Conditioning.
The thing they should have had for the last 40 years. With record breaking heat year after year it should be hazard pay without ac
Airbags, Anti lock Brakes, and hopefully leg room are probably bonuses too.
You should be aware by now that that's a pretty notable slur.
Now I wonder what this notable slur is
I would also like to know what the slur is
Actually, I didnโt know. Never heard it used in an offensive context before today. But Iโll edit my comment just the same.
Dude, a break is something you take between shifts. A brake is something that slows you down. They're not the same word.
Probably just because it has a/c
Instantaneous torque, I'm sure offers dramatic improvement over the previous ICE trucks.
Not only do [the old trucks] only get 9 miles per gallon, theyโre also noisy, smelly (I have to close my window every day when the mail truck comes around), have no air conditioning, hard to stand up in, and their only safety feature is mirrors that constantly fall out of alignment. AP also points out that nearly 100 LLVs caught fire last year โย a common event when it comes to internal combustion vehicles.
They look pretty cool, too! I hope our mail carrier gets one soon. They've given her a van for now since I guess the old Grumman one she was using finally conked out.
Plus the cool hood really helps with seeing over the hood, makes them safer.
It seems odd to turn to Oshkosh to build these. I wonder how they compare to Amazon's Rivian vans.
I mean... the previous ones were by Northop Grumman?
Is it really a shock that the US turns to defense companies for this kind of thing?
There was a time when these were built by Jeep/AMC motors. People used to buy these used at auction and drive them after they were retired. And electric delivery vehicles are already built by companies like Rivian and Ford, though I donโt know what the cost difference is.
I would think building a โbespokeโ vehicle for USPS would result in more expensive service parts. But I donโt know what kind of service contracts are included with these.
The Grumman LLVs were "bespoke" and have been being used since the 80's??
Bespoke in that they were essentially S-10 pickups with different bodies.
Yes, and before that they were a general jeep vehicle built by built by Jeep/AMC. They sold the contract to LTV in 1980.
And talking about the US prior to the military industrial complex and post military industrial complex are two different things.
Post WWII its been a revolving door of "defense" company executives having high positions in government.
Remember VP Dick Cheney, former CEO of Halliburton? Remember Halliburton getting no-bid contracts to rebuild Iraq?
My point is: this is the norm now.
Is it stupid? Yes. It is a result of the growth of the power of the military industrial complex? Also yes. Is it what you ought to expect based on past behavior? Fucking obviously.
True, but I don't think it's had any link to the aerospace company for a very long time, right?
Rivian doesn't have the production capacity or the knowledge of navigating federal-level bureaucracy. I'd also rather it go to Rivian but I understand why they didn't. I doubt that even Tesla could do it.
Is the rollout happening that quickly? How many are they building in a year? I also can't imagine a company used to building MRAPs can churn vehicles out faster than a conventional automaker...
I'd guess there's a bit of MIC lobbying and chicanery afoot here. Like, it does seem like Oshkosh makes some good vehicles, but there's always pressure to support defense companies when government bidding happens.
Please note that this is completely baseless speculation on my part. I'm an idiot on the internet that knows fuck-all about shit.
My first thought as well. This is par for the course in modern US.
Thank god because I live in AZ and felt bad they had no AC. I even had one break down on the street as the engine overheated the driver didnโt know what to do. But it sucks the driver was worried about making deliveries on time. I told the driver not to drive that car cause itโs not safe
Why does it have a grille?
Big batteries need cooling during charging.
A/C units need to do heat exchange.
Aesthetics
Aesthetics
Especially apparent when you look at this abomination
That's cool as fuck
Remember most people look at cars in the US and think "how the fuck can you drive such a ghastly monstrosity?", and US manufacturers sell different models overseas that aren't so pretentious and overblown
I'd take that yellow beastie over a childishly-designed Jeep any day
Aesthetics were clearly not a factor in the design of these vehicles.
It is designed to be gas or electric. The few with gas engines will need the ventilation. Also it does have A/C. That is also why it has an engine bay despite being electric.
Mmm... Toriyama cars.
Given the fashion for giving vehicle models latinate masculine names like Camino and Montero, they missed a trick by not naming the postal vehicle the Tristero.
The one thing I wish they did with these things is make the roof out of solar panels.
These things are going to spend most days sitting outside in direct sunlight. They have nice big flat roofs which makes them pretty perfect to throw on solar panels. You likely would not need much charge infrastructure for the new vehicles and you'd have cut the ownership cost down even more significantly (especially in states with high electrical rates).
Regardless, these things are a no-brainer even without solar on all the vehicles. These are low speed vehicles with dedicated routes and loads of stop/go action. There's not a more clear place to use an EV.
Solan panels on vehicles sounds like a great idea but the physics makes it a stupid gimmick.
You also have to clean them constantly in this application, I imagine.
I guess they could make some kind of windshield wiper for the solar panels.
The top of my car is rarely dirty.
How so? Is it that they aren't efficient enough to be worth the materials it's made from?
Power to weight ratio favors permanent fixed installations. A car roof is far too small to make a useful amount of energy.
Power to weight doesn't matter as we are talking about using a solar panel instead of a roof. There's no added weight. The car will already have inbuilt inverters so the only real weight add is the wiring. But also, this is a postal vehicle which will have large swings in weight anyways. A couple of extra pounds doesn't make a difference here.
Further, this isn't a car, which has a much smaller surface area. These things have about 10 square meters of flat roof. That's a peak output of ~3kW. (realistically, probably closer to 1.5kW average throughout a day) which translates into 12kWh of charge in any given day. Roughly 10% of the battery capacity could be restored daily.
For large vehicles, like delivery vehicles and busses, the math on making the roof out solar panels instead of steel changes.
A roof only needs to be a thin piece of sheet metal, weighing somewhere in the neighborhood of 1-2lbs per square foot
Most solar panels are going to weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-4lbs per square foot. So is likely the panel would weigh 2-4 times as much as just a plain metal roof, plus possibly a metal roof under it and/or additional framing to attach the panels to, so power to weight does absolutely come into play.
That comes in at an additional 400lbs on a vehicle that weighs 6,670 lbs if you assume the maximal weight of the panels and the need for a metal roof anyways. That extra 6% weight just doesn't matter. 6% losses range for 12% free charging seems like a worthy tradeoff to me. (and again, this is the maximal value).
That extra 6% weight just doesn't matter.
LOL weight is incredibly important. Automakers would kill puppies for a 6% weight reduction.
6% weight increase doesn't necessarily mean a 6% efficiency loss, it's not a simple linear relationship like that. Depending on the power of the motor and a few other factors that 6% weight increase could mean a huge hit to efficiency.
It's cheaper to put a light roof on a car, buy the same area of solar cells, set them up to charge a battery, and charge the car off that battery, than it is to buy a custom, toughened, solar cell the area of the roof.
Plus, you don't have to haul around the extra weight at the worst location for weight in a vehicle.
They couldn't use an actual photo instead of whatever that edited trash is lol
There are car horns that sound like ducks, so maybe.
That windshield looks very expensive to replace, pass it on to the taxpayers!
It looks like a pretty typical windshield, except mounted close to vertical. Last I knew the USPS was running at a profit, except for the bribed politicians making it a law they need to fund pensions way into the future, that is.
USPS is self-funded through postage and other services they provide. They did receive $50 billion from an emergency funding bill back in '22, but that also removed a hefty, arbitrary load: back in 2006, legislation was passed that forced the USPS into pre-fund retirement plans for the next 75 years. The emergency funding bill lifted that requirement and gave emergency funding to the USPS under the condition that the USPS adopt changes listed in the bill to further address funding shortfalls and become solvent again.
The people paying for USPS windshield replacements are effectively paying customers, much like how toll roads are supposed to fund their own upkeep by charging for its use.
Lol, looks like they mixed the popemobile with a shoebox.
I read the whole article because I had a sneaking suspicion this was probably the biggest (and most important to drivers) upgrade. Although I will be fair and say the ability to walk through the vehicle to get packages instead of having to circle around to the back is pretty fucking sweet as well.
basically how i see it with delivery trucks, you need a few things.
heated/air vented seats for driver comfort along with AC.
easy access to the back of the truck
as well as room to stand in the truck, because the driver is going to have to constantly get in and out of the driver seat, so being able to get out easier/faster is good.
And aโฆ. checks notesโฆ.. giant FUCKING window.
High visibility is probably a good idea for a vehicle designed for residential deliveries.
Yes. It looks like it was designed to have great visibility of kids in front, unlike most pickups and other trucks today.
*squints* Where??
You have to zoom in a bunch to see it. But its there.
.....oh. OOOHHHH
Yes, I'm 6ft and have to hunch over in the back of the LLV, or squat down while re-sorting packages. The inner compartment door is one of the best things about the LLV since the heaters suck and it helps keep the heat in the cabin, plus the ease of access.
I haven't gotten to use one of these new trucks because I'm in a smaller office which will likely be one of the last to get them but they did try and get us the newer Metris vans which are horrible. No inner compartment door so you have to constantly get out and no adjustability to the mail tray.
EVs for service vehicles that do a lot of local starts and stops is a no-brainer. Should have been done a long time ago. It's no wonder that they're getting good reception, after years of working with worn out equipment. I regularly see tow trucks with a Grumman.
Trumpโs guy Louis deJoy did his damndest to prevent USPS from adopting EVs.
It's Biden's guy too, did nothing to change him.
Do some reading on why Biden can't get rid of him. It'll make you smarter, I promise.
https://www.federaltimes.com/federal-oversight/2022/08/24/can-biden-fire-us-postmaster-general-louis-dejoy/
Nobody is asking Biden to fire DeJoy. But Biden has had the ability to replace him since May 2022. The Board of Governors decides the Postmaster General. A simple majority vote can change the Postmaster General. The current make up is
Only two of those people are Trump nominees. Biden nominated a Republican and a Democrat in May 2022 when he could have just nominated one Democrat which would have given Democrats the majority. Only six governors are required for quorum.
So yes, DeJoy is absolutely Biden's guy too. The annoying thing is that Democrats in the Senate are fine with it. Biden has two nominees that have been waiting on confirmation for a while now.
Let's not provide cover for bullshit. USPS governor confirmations cost no political capital.
So Obama let it happen. Based on the history of the positions not being filled. Democrats let Trump have the right to select DeJoy.
Same story as the SCOTUS.
"On November 14, 2014 (with effect on February 1, 2015), the board appointed Megan Brennan postmaster general, to succeed Patrick R. Donahoe. In December 2014, the extended term of Mickey D. Barnett was to expire, while the Senate had still not confirmed five nominees submitted by then-president Obama.[6]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Board_of_Governors_of_the_United_States_Postal_Service
Try again.
Your chosen quote says it was the Republican senate who blocked the appointment.
After 2014, democrats sat on it for 6 years.
You don't know anything ๐
There's a bunch of electric garbage trucks in my city. My kid is obsessed with any heavy machinery these days so we were watching one and I got to talking to the driver. He told me that he absolutely loves them. They are easy to operate, they accelerate fast, they seem to break down less.
I have seen them accelerate, they go hard. And it's just so fucking cool to have a big dump truck be silent?! I cannot get over how happy it makes me that they're just chilling silently when they're stopped. Makes my mornings more peaceful.
I'm surprised (and very happy) that the driver loves it. Getting truckers on board with electric semis is a huge challenge, so if other heavy truck drivers like their electrics that will hopefully help win them over.
Most of the drivers of these are also waste collectors. He told me he appreciates that it's less hassle to operate. No gear shifting, no noise, good acceleration, they feel more nimble.
I suppose range and accessible of charging ports in particular would be a concern for a long haul drivers but that's not an issue if you have a relatively (range wise) tour through the city, and get back to and central hub every day.
I'm not too surprised. It must be quite unpleasant working around a noisy piece of machinery like that.
American truckers especially love their FREEDOM to a stupid degree. I do get the lifestyle of being a road cowboy never knowing where your next haul is going to.
But theyโre also a dying breed, new drivers want to get home now and then and not live in a truck for months without seeing their family.
There was a good documentary about this a while ago, canโt remember where.
This in itself is worth the change, reducing noise in residential areas (and others) would be a huge improvement in quality of life for both people and wildlife.
They and transit buses should have been the driver (heh) for hybrids at least.
The last Grumman LLV rolled off the assembly line 30 years ago, and has been probably been driven six days a week, except federal holidays, ever since. Iโm not surprised theyโre on their last legs.
Yes, credit where it's due for them lasting. Those are like the COBOL running banks and government stuff, never intended to last forever, yet still being used because it's easier and cheaper (well, probably not in the long run).
Honestly anything would have been better than those old iron dukes. They were dated in the 80โs
This article does that annoying thing where it uses
acronymsInitialisms without previously using the full verbiage at least once.BEV - Battery-Electric Vehicle
NGDV - Next Generation Delivery Vehicle
LLV - Long Life Vehicle
Initialisms, technically. But thank you nevertheless.
TIL about initialisms, which are like acronyms but when you pronounce the initial letters individually instead of like a spelled out word. DVD being an initialism, versus SCUBA being an acronym.
Eh, BEV could go either way
Who the hell calls a BEV a woman's name?
Bev sounds like you're shortening Beverly. BEV and you know it's a vehicle.
Good point, why say BEV when you could say BEV
TOMATO vs [tสฐษฬฅหmeษชษพoส]
And yet thereโs no html tag, and it hurts me.
fixed ty
To translate further:
BEV - self explanatory never mind
NGDV - Oshkosh Next Generation Delivery Vehicle, The new mail truck that looks like a duck
LLV - The Grumman Long Life Vehicle, the classic mail truck.
and as a bonus
FFV - The Ford-Utilimaster Flexible Fuel Vehicle, the early 2000s mail truck that looks like the LLV that you buy from wish.
To be fair I immediately assumed NGDV was Next Generation Delivery Vehicle. idk how, I just did
Wtf
Electric motors gave a quiet high pitched whine that will be extremely easy for dogs to hear and will the mailman is coming once they catch on.
So glad to see the upgrade actually has quality of life features for the drivers beyond not needing to breathe in exhaust fumes all day!
Hey American modern pick up truck heads. Notice how normal the bonnet is? Notice how you can SEE enough to not run people over? This is a true utility vehicle. Look how massive this bad boy is without being a death machine ๐
but it doesn't have enough sharp edges i feel like. what if i want to slice a kid in half?
You're right. Literally unplayable
It's also absolutely adorable ๐
(which is probably why they'd hate it ๐)
I have a mini cargo van as my everyday car that can move quite a bit of cargo, but I also bottom out if I go on a road that's too bumpy.
The family truck has the clearance to go off the pavement.
A video which puts all the arguments better than I ever could: https://youtu.be/jN7mSXMruEo
But the notion you can only have high clearance by making your hood so massive to the point you can't see your child as you run them over in your own driveway, doesn't make sense.
I'd strongly encourage you to give the video a go.
These trucks are now infesting my streets to (Australia) to a lesser degree. It's an arms race that really needs to be stopped. I hope you consider some of the points made in the video.
Omg, I love them.
And if that is not a Trucky McTruckyface I dont know what is.
"The BEV variant has an estimated range of 70 mi (110 km) and a computed consumption of 1.34 kWโ h/mi (25.2 mpgโe). Although using the air conditioner was not expected to affect the range, using the heater was expected to reduce range by up to half. Based on the typical distance driven, it was assumed that only 20% of the battery state of charge would be used each day for most NGDVs; analysis of USPS mail carrier routes demonstrated the all-electric variant's range could accommodate 95% of all routes."
have to go elsewhere for vehicle specs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oshkosh_NGDV?wprov=sfla1
Is this not the car from Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs?
Iโm actually shocked at the inefficiency of the electric powertrain tbh. An F-150 Lightning gets twice the distance per wh, a Model Y is quadruple. Iโm not entirely sure if itโs just simply the size, but the lightning has a comparable gvwr. Just seems weird to me
I wonder how they calculated the range. If it's representative of the real world drive cycle these will experience, the estimate might not be too far off. A postal route is constant low speed stop and go. Regen is much more effective at higher speeds, so they're probably dumping most of their kenetic energy to hear via friction brakes. Suspect their drive cycle is going to be something like an endless cycle of 25 kw acceleration, rest, 25 kw acceleration, rest, etc.
I bet itโs this exactly. Cars get more efficient metrics on highway vs city start and stop. If the vehicle ONLY starts and stops it must be terrible, even if these have regen brakes.
Maybe these people are actually reporting the real world mileage with AC turned on and constant stops to deliver mail, as opposed to Ford who is financially incentivized to exaggerate mileage in optimal conditions.
So, I was curious and did some digging on the old LLV. Apparently it has a 13.5 gallon tank, and the vehicle is rated at 17mpg, but in actual use it gets more like 8-10mpg. So taking the worst case of 8, that's about 100 mile range, so the NGDV isn't really all that much worse. I'm guessing that's going to cover the majority of routes, with the few outliers being covered by the gas powered versions.
I mean how many miles a day are most routes? Why order bigger specs if you don't need them? I can't imagine most carriers go more than 20 mi a day. I am curious though, I'm sure someone's crunched the numbers on it.
100 in 2024 is not a big launch. That is 3 second egg soft type of soft launch.
It's not as fast as I'd like either, but it's a lot better than the original USPS plan to replace them with diesel trucks.
I'm not against the swap to EV but that is one Cloudy With a Chance of Meatballs looking ass truck.
The unusual look is to make it easier to see around the front of the vehicle, which is especially important if you are stopping and starting.
The original design didn't have a hood and looked a but more like a mini bus. Can't remember why they added the hood, but it was a combination of different things including not having a flat front that increases the chance of killing people vs letting them roll up on a short hood. I think wheel placement was another part so the side door to get in an out could be closer to the ground.
I kinda love how ugly they are in a utilitarian kind of way.
Ditto. Like, I think it'll become iconic in the same way the LLV is ugly-iconic. I just like it when government stuff so obviously prioritizes function over form.
It might also be for a radiator to cool the battery and/or act as a heat pump for the AC/heat. At least, I hope they are using a heatpump.
Null
It is, but its pure function over form. If you want the whole story on this here's a well done 13 minute youtube video: USPS Oshkosh NGDV Postal Van - Ugly by Design
Short version for the ugly:
Its ugly, but is a very VERY functional design. I'd rather mail carriers are comfortable in their ride than feeling stylish.
From an article I read last week, it's an accessibility thing. Front window needs to be low enough for short carriers, and the vehicle needs to be tall enough for a tall carrier to stand in.
Looks silly, but pretty well thought out.
The first batch is possibly arriving in one city. (Pics or it didn't happen, of course. AP delivers!) Well, that's nice... at least they actually exist?! (That's a bit of a low bar.) But congrats to the first drivers of these little ducks.
I'm worried it's going to take another decade or three for the trucks to actually arrive in the numbers needed. Hopefully the USPS can survive our deplorable politics until then. They are invaluable for small businesses and keeping all mail couriers competitive.
There is video of them in a USPS parking lot in Athens Georgia
Thanks! I was actually cleaning up my comment (and fully RTFA) when I saw that AP link in middle there. Actual photos, great to see.
They do look like ducks! ๐ฆ
...and they shouldn't. It's a government service vehicle, form and function over aesthetics.
They could've bought a fleet of EVs off the shelf but they would'n't've been fit for service and more expensive per mile/year of use.
I love it they look like ducks ๐ฆ
Theyโre totally going to have to do that wrap.
I'd dig that so much ๐
Do they love them because they're electric or because they finally got a new truck?
Because they have Air Conditioning.
The thing they should have had for the last 40 years. With record breaking heat year after year it should be hazard pay without ac
Airbags, Anti lock Brakes, and hopefully leg room are probably bonuses too.
You should be aware by now that that's a pretty notable slur.
Now I wonder what this notable slur is
I would also like to know what the slur is
Actually, I didnโt know. Never heard it used in an offensive context before today. But Iโll edit my comment just the same.
Dude, a break is something you take between shifts. A brake is something that slows you down. They're not the same word.
Probably just because it has a/c
Instantaneous torque, I'm sure offers dramatic improvement over the previous ICE trucks.
They look pretty cool, too! I hope our mail carrier gets one soon. They've given her a van for now since I guess the old Grumman one she was using finally conked out.
Plus the cool hood really helps with seeing over the hood, makes them safer.
It seems odd to turn to Oshkosh to build these. I wonder how they compare to Amazon's Rivian vans.
I mean... the previous ones were by Northop Grumman?
Is it really a shock that the US turns to defense companies for this kind of thing?
There was a time when these were built by Jeep/AMC motors. People used to buy these used at auction and drive them after they were retired. And electric delivery vehicles are already built by companies like Rivian and Ford, though I donโt know what the cost difference is.
I would think building a โbespokeโ vehicle for USPS would result in more expensive service parts. But I donโt know what kind of service contracts are included with these.
The Grumman LLVs were "bespoke" and have been being used since the 80's??
Bespoke in that they were essentially S-10 pickups with different bodies.
Yes, and before that they were a general jeep vehicle built by built by Jeep/AMC. They sold the contract to LTV in 1980.
https://www.onallcylinders.com/2018/07/04/neither-snow-nor-rain-a-brief-history-of-the-postal-mail-jeep/
And talking about the US prior to the military industrial complex and post military industrial complex are two different things.
Post WWII its been a revolving door of "defense" company executives having high positions in government.
Remember VP Dick Cheney, former CEO of Halliburton? Remember Halliburton getting no-bid contracts to rebuild Iraq?
My point is: this is the norm now.
Is it stupid? Yes. It is a result of the growth of the power of the military industrial complex? Also yes. Is it what you ought to expect based on past behavior? Fucking obviously.
True, but I don't think it's had any link to the aerospace company for a very long time, right?
Rivian doesn't have the production capacity or the knowledge of navigating federal-level bureaucracy. I'd also rather it go to Rivian but I understand why they didn't. I doubt that even Tesla could do it.
Is the rollout happening that quickly? How many are they building in a year? I also can't imagine a company used to building MRAPs can churn vehicles out faster than a conventional automaker...
I'd guess there's a bit of MIC lobbying and chicanery afoot here. Like, it does seem like Oshkosh makes some good vehicles, but there's always pressure to support defense companies when government bidding happens.
Please note that this is completely baseless speculation on my part. I'm an idiot on the internet that knows fuck-all about shit.
My first thought as well. This is par for the course in modern US.
Thank god because I live in AZ and felt bad they had no AC. I even had one break down on the street as the engine overheated the driver didnโt know what to do. But it sucks the driver was worried about making deliveries on time. I told the driver not to drive that car cause itโs not safe
Why does it have a grille?
Especially apparent when you look at this abomination
That's cool as fuck
Remember most people look at cars in the US and think "how the fuck can you drive such a ghastly monstrosity?", and US manufacturers sell different models overseas that aren't so pretentious and overblown
I'd take that yellow beastie over a childishly-designed Jeep any day
Aesthetics were clearly not a factor in the design of these vehicles.
It is designed to be gas or electric. The few with gas engines will need the ventilation. Also it does have A/C. That is also why it has an engine bay despite being electric.
Mmm... Toriyama cars.
Given the fashion for giving vehicle models latinate masculine names like Camino and Montero, they missed a trick by not naming the postal vehicle the Tristero.
The one thing I wish they did with these things is make the roof out of solar panels.
These things are going to spend most days sitting outside in direct sunlight. They have nice big flat roofs which makes them pretty perfect to throw on solar panels. You likely would not need much charge infrastructure for the new vehicles and you'd have cut the ownership cost down even more significantly (especially in states with high electrical rates).
Regardless, these things are a no-brainer even without solar on all the vehicles. These are low speed vehicles with dedicated routes and loads of stop/go action. There's not a more clear place to use an EV.
Solan panels on vehicles sounds like a great idea but the physics makes it a stupid gimmick.
You also have to clean them constantly in this application, I imagine.
I guess they could make some kind of windshield wiper for the solar panels.
The top of my car is rarely dirty.
How so? Is it that they aren't efficient enough to be worth the materials it's made from?
Power to weight ratio favors permanent fixed installations. A car roof is far too small to make a useful amount of energy.
Power to weight doesn't matter as we are talking about using a solar panel instead of a roof. There's no added weight. The car will already have inbuilt inverters so the only real weight add is the wiring. But also, this is a postal vehicle which will have large swings in weight anyways. A couple of extra pounds doesn't make a difference here.
Further, this isn't a car, which has a much smaller surface area. These things have about 10 square meters of flat roof. That's a peak output of ~3kW. (realistically, probably closer to 1.5kW average throughout a day) which translates into 12kWh of charge in any given day. Roughly 10% of the battery capacity could be restored daily.
For large vehicles, like delivery vehicles and busses, the math on making the roof out solar panels instead of steel changes.
A roof only needs to be a thin piece of sheet metal, weighing somewhere in the neighborhood of 1-2lbs per square foot
Most solar panels are going to weigh somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-4lbs per square foot. So is likely the panel would weigh 2-4 times as much as just a plain metal roof, plus possibly a metal roof under it and/or additional framing to attach the panels to, so power to weight does absolutely come into play.
That comes in at an additional 400lbs on a vehicle that weighs 6,670 lbs if you assume the maximal weight of the panels and the need for a metal roof anyways. That extra 6% weight just doesn't matter. 6% losses range for 12% free charging seems like a worthy tradeoff to me. (and again, this is the maximal value).
LOL weight is incredibly important. Automakers would kill puppies for a 6% weight reduction.
6% weight increase doesn't necessarily mean a 6% efficiency loss, it's not a simple linear relationship like that. Depending on the power of the motor and a few other factors that 6% weight increase could mean a huge hit to efficiency.
It's cheaper to put a light roof on a car, buy the same area of solar cells, set them up to charge a battery, and charge the car off that battery, than it is to buy a custom, toughened, solar cell the area of the roof.
Plus, you don't have to haul around the extra weight at the worst location for weight in a vehicle.
They couldn't use an actual photo instead of whatever that edited trash is lol
Judging by the AP report linked in that post-
https://apnews.com/article/postal-service-next-generation-delivery-vehicle-a2ebbfc7afec0eea2e036eef93bee4d9
It's the same thing.
Look like a duck.
Does it quack like a duck?
There are car horns that sound like ducks, so maybe.
That windshield looks very expensive to replace, pass it on to the taxpayers!
It looks like a pretty typical windshield, except mounted close to vertical. Last I knew the USPS was running at a profit, except for the bribed politicians making it a law they need to fund pensions way into the future, that is.
USPS is self-funded through postage and other services they provide. They did receive $50 billion from an emergency funding bill back in '22, but that also removed a hefty, arbitrary load: back in 2006, legislation was passed that forced the USPS into pre-fund retirement plans for the next 75 years. The emergency funding bill lifted that requirement and gave emergency funding to the USPS under the condition that the USPS adopt changes listed in the bill to further address funding shortfalls and become solvent again.
The people paying for USPS windshield replacements are effectively paying customers, much like how toll roads are supposed to fund their own upkeep by charging for its use.
Lol, looks like they mixed the popemobile with a shoebox.