My (unpopular?) solution is to make sure the rest of society isn't so desperate for food that they're willing to rob a robot.
In an unrelated suggestion, if youre in a grocery store and see someone stealing food, no you didn't.
As someone who works in a grocery store, most of the people I see stealing are stealing stuff like makeup or drinks and junk food, not necessities. And our regular thieves spend hundreds on cigarettes a week, while still stealing whatever they want because they know theyβll get away with it.
Wow those people sure are living it up. I can't imagine what I would do with a bunch of cigarettes, makeup and junk food that I didn't have to pay for. I have to pay megacorp boatloads for those luxuries to cope with my miserable existence and here those anonymous jerks get them for free by cheating the system.
Yeah, the cigarettes thing is a literal drug issue. The only thing that's different between that a fentanyl is the smokes are not criminalized.
We can't expect our thieves and impoverished to be exactly rational and raid the staples, especially as we've engineered junk food to appeal to impulsivity.
As for makeup I don't have an easy explanation, though makeup is expensive and currently we do expect people to wear it rather than get accustomed to what folks look like without it. I was going to guess it's fungible, but less so than brand-name laundry detergent. Tide is currency in the underground market.
But yes, while for young people there might be a thrill in the act of stealing over buying, ultimately, when we have the capacity to fulfill our needs without careful budgeting and compromise, we're glad to do things transactionally. Professional thieves struggle to make rent.
Fix poverty and you fix a huge amount of other things.
Ok sure, but have we considered arming the robots with assault rifles instead?
Arming autonomous robots, what could possibly go wrong?
.._._
.._._
The article mentioned tear gas canisters be equipped instead. I can't wait for a delivery robot to be near my property, someone tries to mess with it and gets gassed, then I get to enjoy tear gas as well from my front porch.
Or some kid walks past it, bumps it slightly and gets gassed in the face.
Well the next kid will think twice about bumping the bot.
I'm assuming the canisters would only be released if the door is forced open. I highly doubt it's going to activate a few slightly knock it I mean hell, those things drive into lamp posts on occasion.
With the care and attention tech companies give to the safety of their devices, I can definitely see it spraying someone unintended. Probably even the person it was delivering to. Any company sensible enough to properly implement this likely will finder better less potentially dangerous solutions to the problem. This idea stinks of someone who gave it 5 minutes of thought and wants it implemented as quickly as possible.
Yeah but it's what they'll do.
Tear gas infused hamburger, mmmmm. Cough cough.
Now that's hot sauce
Mmmm tear gassy food delivery
Surely area of effect weaponry would be better.
The higher collateral impact just serves as an extra lesson to any wannabe thieves.
I'd go with thermonuclear warheads
If weβre all not living in survival mode, why would people work? /s
Making people self sustainable is a good way to fix poverty but the state actively works against that.
How's that related? A criminal is a criminal, their wealth is irrelevant.
Because fixing poverty lowers criminality.
Ahaha! Right, sure!
Good point. It's the poorest cities and neighborhoods that have the lowest crime rate. Forgot about that, thanks for educating.
It's the poorest countries which have lower crime rates. You people are lunatics.
Interesting hand to play: stealing food from a robot is equivalent to any severity of criminal act. Let's talk again after licking some more of that trippy boot.
Lick as much as you wish, I won't judge.
Why would you, I know you love this shit
Yeah, I love watching boot lickers doing their best!
What a pathetic bunch of people trying to maintain the slave status quo in these comments. WHY are you fighting to maintain a world where people have to work low tier bull shit jobs to survive? The answer, you morons, is to let the robots be and improve society to the point technology said it would. We re the most productive we've ever been in our entire history yet work more than any other time in history. We need work reform, not a robot genocide.
In an ideal world these robots would shift to there not being a need for "unskilled labor" and we would all have more leisure time. In the late stage capitalistic hellhole we are forced to live in, huge organization replace minimum wage jobs with robots and hoard profits and push people further unto poverty, while still overworking and underpaying the few people they do still employ.
If we had a ubi, then robots and self checkouts taking minimum wage jobs wouldn't be an issue because the person who's job was taken isn't just displaced and faces homelessness or death.
So I sympathize with the people who are complaining about the robots. As much as I want a scifi future with a bunch of automation, I want exploitation of the lower class to end first.
Which is literally what my comment says, it's a work reform problem not a robot problem. This is literally exhausting your anger and energy on the wrong thing. Do you really think destroying some robots will change society?
Destroying robots won't change society, but it can give you free shit.
Yes I'm sure you'll be all for it till someone lifts your shit. Then you'll cry like the little bitch you are. Typical fuck you I got mine mindset.
The unemployment rates in the USA and Canada are both far below norms. These robots aren't taking anyone's irreplaceable job. Of all the things they are (ugly, intrusive, annoying), one of the things they're not doing is driving up unemployment. At worst, someone has to change jobs.
let the robots be and improve society to the point technology said it would. We re the most productive weβve ever been in our entire history yet work more than any other time in history. We need work reform, not a robot genocide.
I am in agreement with you, but the problem is the work reform part is not forthcoming. The delivery robots didn't come with a helping of any kind of labor reform, whatsoever, and will not come with one either without some kind of violence to usher in the deal. The capitalist class would not allow it to happen any other way.
If you truly believe that it still makes 0 sense to use the violence against the robots who have 0 idea why they're being attacked and even when destroyed change nothing(because destroying these won't stop companies from making better more lethal versions).
When I said violence I don't mean against the robots (which you can damage but not commit violence against). It's just a computer on wheels. I meant that labor reform will involve violence between people in the labor class and the capital class. Our American history is full of examples of exactly this kind of thing happening between a protest labor movement and its countervailing force.
Is lemmy like the unofficial gathering place for commies? I see more commie garbage on here than reddit, which is saying something.
Where is the "commie garbage"?
People here are making valid complaints about the state of society.
Most people know that communism isn't the answer.
Mostly everyone who says taking someone else's property is okay if you feel they deserve it, or the seller deserves it. If you don't see a huge commie bent here, then I would assume it's because you are a commie or are commie-adjacent. For real, maybe I've just stumbled on the perfect mix, but I'm finding lemmy to be rife so far.
Mostly everyone who says taking someone else's property is okay if you feel they deserve it
I don't think that's ok. Humans need their space, man.
If you don't see a huge commie bent here, then I would assume it's because you are a commie or are commie-adjacent
I see a moderate and a left bent here. Both of those I vibe with, but the left isn't synonymous with communism or even marxism.
And there's also idealism, of course - there's plenty of that everywhere on the Internet.
My view of the left is that they want an infra that's more aligned with the EU or Scandanavia.
That's definitely not communism. NK is communist, and there are very few people who want NK.
Del Spooner would like a word with you.
yet work more than any other time in history
1903 would like a word.
yet work more than any other time in history.
My impression is that we're the most leisurely, per capita, than we've ever been. The average workweek now is 34 hours, down from 60-70 in the 1850s.
I would disagree about your average because it's brought down by people working multiple jobs that won't generally staff them past those 30ish hours or what ever the magic number is to be just under the required time to be eligible for a benefits package. It's a widely known problem in the work force.
I would disagree about your average because itβs brought down by people working multiple jobs
No, as these are the numbers reported by worker's themselves (Robert Whaples's research) and not by their disparate employers. But looking at it as you suggested, it comes out to 34.3 hours.
Lol? What you just said doesn't disprove what I said. If people work multiple jobs their hours will be lower. Nothing in your studies you presented said people only work 1 job. Just that the hours at any given job are only 30ish hours. Still doesn't talk about people working more than 1 job.
Low income white neighborhoods have lower crime rates than black middle/high income neighborhoods. There is no more blind person that the one who doesnt want to see.
"The robots are constantly monitored and equipped with 12 cameras and two-way audio communication systems. Any improper conduct will be detected immediately. If an incident does occur with a Starship robot, one of our robot rescuers can respond quickly," robot builder Starship Technologies says regarding robot safety, adding that acts of vandalism or theft are reported to authorities.
While that may be true in theory, instances of actual prosecution for theft from robots in cities where they operate have not been easy to discover. As with far more widespread instances of front porch package thieves or shoplifters, despite the volume of video evidence the robots can produce the police have to actually take some investigative steps to identify and locate the suspects
I'm glad they've thought this through.
the police have to actually take some investigative steps to identify and locate the suspects
cops give zero fucks when crimes effect everyday citizens.
Do you have holiday citizens in your country?
Sure do. Rich business owners.
How dare they expect cops to "take some investigative steps?" We'll arrest the criminals when you bring them in for us, along with evidence.
some robots have been robbed of the goods they're delivering, including food.
That was easy to predict, wasn't it?
For me, this falls neatly into the "who fucking cares?" category. These things are deployed in very few cities overall and if the technology is ready for wide-release, you better have a more effective defense against theft than you already do if they are already being stolen from
I'm far from a Luddite and I think robots in general are cool. But I kind of don't have an issue with people fucking up autonomous roaming robots. I haven't rationalized that opinion just yet, I guess. Just feels right.
Philly did nothing wrong
I don't think waving away being a Luddite just by saying so makes it so.
I can't think of a single angle of principled moral theory that makes this okay. Vandalizing or stealing someone else's property they paid for. Hurting both the restaurant and the customer by depriving them of their food. Holding back progress on an invention that can reduce the need for humans to engage in a type of work that is hard, dangerous at times, and low paid.
From a purely rational on paper view, it doesn't look terribly different than saying vandalizing or stealing from delivery vehicles driven by people isn't wrong. What possible justification could there be for this view besides Ludditism fuck robots?
I don't think that robots should be allowed to take up space on our sidewalks. Sidewalks are meant for people to travel on and we shouldn't be inconvenienced by having to avoid some annoying-ass robots rolling down the middle of them all the time. They ought to be considered motor vehicles and banned from sidewalks. That being said, stealing people's deliveries is wrong and I don't think it's a good way to combat robots encroaching on our space.
Maybe just overturn them so it becomes unprofitable?
I was thinking you could pick them up and set them in nearby bushes or something so it's out of everyone's way. You aren't damaging it and it's impossible to argue that robots should have right-of-way. If you overturn them, the company might be able to bitch that you scratched the paint or something.
I donβt think waving away being a Luddite just by saying so makes it so.
Guess you know me better than I know myself.
From a purely rational on paper view, it doesnβt look terribly different than saying vandalizing or stealing from delivery vehicles driven by people isnβt wrong. What possible justification could there be for this view besides Ludditism fuck robots?
Imagine thinking humans are rational beings the debate ethics every time they have a feeling. Sometimes you just gotta fuck shit up.
Under captialism we lament robots taking our jobs, where under a better system we would be rejoicing.
Do you mean the system where people would have the opportunity to cook better food for themselves instead of ordering fast food and paying exorbitant fees to have it delivered?
You okay with people fucking up vending machines and ATMs too? Why or why not?
Not OP, but I would like to state that I am ok with that. You pulled a human out of the loop, and that comes with risks. Business decision.
Wouldn't this justify vandalizing any type of machine whatsoever? Get in an elevator and nobody is looking? Stab the control panel so they have to get a human in the future making the elevator. See a car and no one is looking? Set it on fire so they have to use a human pulled rickshaw instead.
Ok, so if it's not a vending machine, but a cashier and cashier gets punched by a robber it's ok as well?
You're all making logical ethics arguments on a flippant emotional comment I made. You ever just have intrusive thoughts that make you just want to fuck some shit up? That's what these robots make me feel.
People take every comment way too seriously.
I agree with you. That Philly robot wasn't even a robot, it was a pile of garbage in a chair.
The rational could be that those robots are taking the job of a human being and deserve to be robbed...
Using cars to deliver food pays very little, is dangerous (old guy with shotgun shoots your brains if you go to the wrong house), and is extremely bad for the environment. Current delivery workers could switch to a safer job with better pay and not damage the environment as much. Or we can implement UBI. Just a thought.
Edit: I would also like to point out a robotβs electric bill for a trip is much cheaper when compared to a gas or even an electric car. Ideally, the savings would be passed along to the customer.
Well⦠an old man shooting your brains out for ringing the wrong doorbell is a complete different problem.
We can also make robots to do that more efficiently.
I hate this argument... Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a job that pays a livable wage?
People aren't dealing with the dangers of delivery because they are lazy or unmotivated, they are doing it because they need the work and it pays barely enough to meet their needs.
Yes, thats why we need some fucking change in the world. My argument is just saying delivery robots are not bad.
Where the hell did I say delivery workers were lazy?
That is LITERALLY the meaning of the βLudditeβ position that has been disclaimed.
1 spray can of black paint vs 1000 robot cameras, who wins?
When wasnβt it going to be a thing?
Well, this is a side of snow crash I didn't expect to see so soon.
Actually just had that book delivered today, pretty excited to read it
At least we've moved on from killing them in the street.
Poor hitch-hiking bot.
RIP
"you wouldn't -dΜ΅oΜ΅wΜ΅nΜ΅lΜ΅oΜ΅aΜ΅dΜ΅- drone-rob a pizza..."
Sitting behind garbage bean with my Anti drone to rob a pizza.
Does Lemmy markup have strikethru?
Looks like it does! Your double ~~ are rendering strikethrough for me (Jerboa)
I had searched it up but didn't find it and just went with a shitty ASCII overlay haha
These things have been around for a few years on the college campus in my hometown, it's not that new and they do work fairly well. Might be that it was a testing ground though
My niece has them on her college campus.
College kids + alcohol + robots.... It's about what you would expect.
They rarely make it to their destinations on time.
How fast are they?
3-5mph... believe they can go much faster but they never do
I'd figured the article would have some tips but I was disappointed.
Choose your spot well, preferably near an alley without any cameras directly viewing it. Wear a no -branded hoodie, sunglasses, and a mask, then obstruct its forward path, and start spray painting the cameras. Wear gloves to avoid leaving fingerprints. If all else fails, a stun gun might be very helpful in disabling stubborn electronics.
Also, purchase your outerwear and other items from different stores with cash. But not in a circle around you. And buy the bat ears in bulk so it doesn't raise suspicion.
Here's an idea, don't launch these services in low trust, high crime places. In California, people can walk into a fully staffed Walgreens and commit blatant theft with no repercussions; a poor robot out in the world stands no chance.
There's a lot of parallels here. One I'm not on the side of Walgreens and I'm not on the side of the robot. If it comes down to petty crime but the only victim is an insured multi-billion dollar conglomerate I'm not going to shead a tear.
The laws for thee and not for me.
The moment I start deploying robots on publicly funded sidewalks in attempt to undercut the working class, feel free to crack one open and steal some pizza rolls.
I used to work in a Vons in Santa Monica in 2016. We had thefts every day. Some even got violent. Our manager got tired of it and threatened to break someone's legs after they walked out of the store with something one morning. The theft problem in CA is real.
Yeah, it's called shrinkage and it's built into the profit model of all brick and mortar stores. Every store has some degree of theft, and while it increased for a short time during the middle of the pandemic, its since tapered off to normal levels.
If you read the article I posted, its clear that the rate of theft is exaggerated overall in California, especially by the commentors chosen example, Walgreens.
I'm sorry to hear about your personal experience with Vons, but it also sounds like your manager had anger issues and was part of the problem.
When I'm working 12 hours a week and seeing 3-5 thefts, plus violence, every week, it's more than just "shrinkage." I can't speak for all of CA, but that was my experience.
I used to work at a Ralph's in Santa Monica and no one stole anything ever
The Ralph's surrounding Santa Monica are pretty evenly spaced out, except for a mysterious hole where downtown Santa Monica is. My store was near downtown Santa Monica.
Lol, as if theft only happens in California. This is a ridiculous statement to make.
CA had a republican governor for how many years? It's completely exaggerated by Republicans
My brain assumed from the title that this would actually be about robot porch pirates now prowling the neighbourhood. I'm thankful we're not there... yet.
These robots are a hazard and a nuisance to the pedestrians. I won't shed a single tear for these tincans on wheels. I would not order one of these either.
Yeah cars are so much better and safer \s
You don't get to choose if your order is delivered by one... these have been in operation worldwide since 2014, alongside traditional delivery drivers
Fuck those cogs or any human that dares to be an aug. I'll trashem whenever I see em.
βCogsβ - did you really just use a slur they invented for Deus Ex game as a real slur? Gonna call them clanks and hanzers too?
Even if you did, you realize those are in universe slurs and indicate the person is ignorant, right?
Without that context the above comment is deranged.
This is actually how rights for robots will be a thing. So the proletariat knows to stay in line and never harm or try to subvert the robots made by the elite class to extract wealth
the workers work for a company
Exploiting the proletariat
the robots do it instead
Extracting wealth
Arm the robots.
I don't want to rob it; I want to turn it on its side, put it in a box, put a tiny tire boot on it.
My (unpopular?) solution is to make sure the rest of society isn't so desperate for food that they're willing to rob a robot.
In an unrelated suggestion, if youre in a grocery store and see someone stealing food, no you didn't.
As someone who works in a grocery store, most of the people I see stealing are stealing stuff like makeup or drinks and junk food, not necessities. And our regular thieves spend hundreds on cigarettes a week, while still stealing whatever they want because they know theyβll get away with it.
Wow those people sure are living it up. I can't imagine what I would do with a bunch of cigarettes, makeup and junk food that I didn't have to pay for. I have to pay megacorp boatloads for those luxuries to cope with my miserable existence and here those anonymous jerks get them for free by cheating the system.
Yeah, the cigarettes thing is a literal drug issue. The only thing that's different between that a fentanyl is the smokes are not criminalized.
We can't expect our thieves and impoverished to be exactly rational and raid the staples, especially as we've engineered junk food to appeal to impulsivity.
As for makeup I don't have an easy explanation, though makeup is expensive and currently we do expect people to wear it rather than get accustomed to what folks look like without it. I was going to guess it's fungible, but less so than brand-name laundry detergent. Tide is currency in the underground market.
But yes, while for young people there might be a thrill in the act of stealing over buying, ultimately, when we have the capacity to fulfill our needs without careful budgeting and compromise, we're glad to do things transactionally. Professional thieves struggle to make rent.
I don't think that's at all unpopular, don't a lot of beauty pageant women say how they want to end world hunger or poverty
If I still work in retail I would require far more money to notice things. Since my wage wasn't tied to company profits what do I care.
Although I do remember a time that somebody stole all the skittles. We got yelled at about that one.
Fix poverty and you fix a huge amount of other things.
Ok sure, but have we considered arming the robots with assault rifles instead?
Arming autonomous robots, what could possibly go wrong?
.._._
.._._
The article mentioned tear gas canisters be equipped instead. I can't wait for a delivery robot to be near my property, someone tries to mess with it and gets gassed, then I get to enjoy tear gas as well from my front porch.
Or some kid walks past it, bumps it slightly and gets gassed in the face.
Well the next kid will think twice about bumping the bot.
I'm assuming the canisters would only be released if the door is forced open. I highly doubt it's going to activate a few slightly knock it I mean hell, those things drive into lamp posts on occasion.
With the care and attention tech companies give to the safety of their devices, I can definitely see it spraying someone unintended. Probably even the person it was delivering to. Any company sensible enough to properly implement this likely will finder better less potentially dangerous solutions to the problem. This idea stinks of someone who gave it 5 minutes of thought and wants it implemented as quickly as possible.
Yeah but it's what they'll do.
Tear gas infused hamburger, mmmmm. Cough cough.
Now that's hot sauce
Mmmm tear gassy food delivery
Surely area of effect weaponry would be better.
The higher collateral impact just serves as an extra lesson to any wannabe thieves.
I'd go with thermonuclear warheads
If weβre all not living in survival mode, why would people work? /s
Making people self sustainable is a good way to fix poverty but the state actively works against that.
How's that related? A criminal is a criminal, their wealth is irrelevant.
Because fixing poverty lowers criminality.
Ahaha! Right, sure!
Good point. It's the poorest cities and neighborhoods that have the lowest crime rate. Forgot about that, thanks for educating.
It's the poorest countries which have lower crime rates. You people are lunatics.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/crime-rate-by-country
Yeah, that supports my point.
TIL thereβs people who donβt know that petty crime increases with poverty.
I have been made aware of some dumb groups of people in my time on the internet. But this one is up near the top.
Well ain't you just a ball of sunshine.
Interesting hand to play: stealing food from a robot is equivalent to any severity of criminal act. Let's talk again after licking some more of that trippy boot.
Lick as much as you wish, I won't judge.
Why would you, I know you love this shit
Yeah, I love watching boot lickers doing their best!
Everyday we are one step closer to the plot of Demolition Man. I cannot wait to taste some boosted Taco Bell.
What a pathetic bunch of people trying to maintain the slave status quo in these comments. WHY are you fighting to maintain a world where people have to work low tier bull shit jobs to survive? The answer, you morons, is to let the robots be and improve society to the point technology said it would. We re the most productive we've ever been in our entire history yet work more than any other time in history. We need work reform, not a robot genocide.
In an ideal world these robots would shift to there not being a need for "unskilled labor" and we would all have more leisure time. In the late stage capitalistic hellhole we are forced to live in, huge organization replace minimum wage jobs with robots and hoard profits and push people further unto poverty, while still overworking and underpaying the few people they do still employ.
If we had a ubi, then robots and self checkouts taking minimum wage jobs wouldn't be an issue because the person who's job was taken isn't just displaced and faces homelessness or death.
So I sympathize with the people who are complaining about the robots. As much as I want a scifi future with a bunch of automation, I want exploitation of the lower class to end first.
Which is literally what my comment says, it's a work reform problem not a robot problem. This is literally exhausting your anger and energy on the wrong thing. Do you really think destroying some robots will change society?
Destroying robots won't change society, but it can give you free shit.
Yes I'm sure you'll be all for it till someone lifts your shit. Then you'll cry like the little bitch you are. Typical fuck you I got mine mindset.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=z-MCwxPvslI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
The unemployment rates in the USA and Canada are both far below norms. These robots aren't taking anyone's irreplaceable job. Of all the things they are (ugly, intrusive, annoying), one of the things they're not doing is driving up unemployment. At worst, someone has to change jobs.
I am in agreement with you, but the problem is the work reform part is not forthcoming. The delivery robots didn't come with a helping of any kind of labor reform, whatsoever, and will not come with one either without some kind of violence to usher in the deal. The capitalist class would not allow it to happen any other way.
If you truly believe that it still makes 0 sense to use the violence against the robots who have 0 idea why they're being attacked and even when destroyed change nothing(because destroying these won't stop companies from making better more lethal versions).
When I said violence I don't mean against the robots (which you can damage but not commit violence against). It's just a computer on wheels. I meant that labor reform will involve violence between people in the labor class and the capital class. Our American history is full of examples of exactly this kind of thing happening between a protest labor movement and its countervailing force.
Is lemmy like the unofficial gathering place for commies? I see more commie garbage on here than reddit, which is saying something.
Where is the "commie garbage"?
People here are making valid complaints about the state of society.
Most people know that communism isn't the answer.
Mostly everyone who says taking someone else's property is okay if you feel they deserve it, or the seller deserves it. If you don't see a huge commie bent here, then I would assume it's because you are a commie or are commie-adjacent. For real, maybe I've just stumbled on the perfect mix, but I'm finding lemmy to be rife so far.
I don't think that's ok. Humans need their space, man.
I see a moderate and a left bent here. Both of those I vibe with, but the left isn't synonymous with communism or even marxism.
And there's also idealism, of course - there's plenty of that everywhere on the Internet.
My view of the left is that they want an infra that's more aligned with the EU or Scandanavia.
That's definitely not communism. NK is communist, and there are very few people who want NK.
Del Spooner would like a word with you.
1903 would like a word.
My impression is that we're the most leisurely, per capita, than we've ever been. The average workweek now is 34 hours, down from 60-70 in the 1850s.
I would disagree about your average because it's brought down by people working multiple jobs that won't generally staff them past those 30ish hours or what ever the magic number is to be just under the required time to be eligible for a benefits package. It's a widely known problem in the work force.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/what-are-full-time-hours
No, as these are the numbers reported by worker's themselves (Robert Whaples's research) and not by their disparate employers. But looking at it as you suggested, it comes out to 34.3 hours.
Here are two more views on it:
https://ourworldindata.org/working-more-than-ever (world trends)
https://www.stlouisfed.org/publications/regional-economist/january-2007/working-hard-or-hardly-working-the-evolution-of-leisure-in-the-united-states [dated]
Lol? What you just said doesn't disprove what I said. If people work multiple jobs their hours will be lower. Nothing in your studies you presented said people only work 1 job. Just that the hours at any given job are only 30ish hours. Still doesn't talk about people working more than 1 job.
Low income white neighborhoods have lower crime rates than black middle/high income neighborhoods. There is no more blind person that the one who doesnt want to see.
I'm glad they've thought this through.
cops give zero fucks when crimes effect everyday citizens.
Do you have holiday citizens in your country?
Sure do. Rich business owners.
How dare they expect cops to "take some investigative steps?" We'll arrest the criminals when you bring them in for us, along with evidence.
That was easy to predict, wasn't it?
For me, this falls neatly into the "who fucking cares?" category. These things are deployed in very few cities overall and if the technology is ready for wide-release, you better have a more effective defense against theft than you already do if they are already being stolen from
I'm far from a Luddite and I think robots in general are cool. But I kind of don't have an issue with people fucking up autonomous roaming robots. I haven't rationalized that opinion just yet, I guess. Just feels right.
Philly did nothing wrong
I don't think waving away being a Luddite just by saying so makes it so.
I can't think of a single angle of principled moral theory that makes this okay. Vandalizing or stealing someone else's property they paid for. Hurting both the restaurant and the customer by depriving them of their food. Holding back progress on an invention that can reduce the need for humans to engage in a type of work that is hard, dangerous at times, and low paid.
From a purely rational on paper view, it doesn't look terribly different than saying vandalizing or stealing from delivery vehicles driven by people isn't wrong. What possible justification could there be for this view besides Ludditism fuck robots?
I don't think that robots should be allowed to take up space on our sidewalks. Sidewalks are meant for people to travel on and we shouldn't be inconvenienced by having to avoid some annoying-ass robots rolling down the middle of them all the time. They ought to be considered motor vehicles and banned from sidewalks. That being said, stealing people's deliveries is wrong and I don't think it's a good way to combat robots encroaching on our space.
Maybe just overturn them so it becomes unprofitable?
I was thinking you could pick them up and set them in nearby bushes or something so it's out of everyone's way. You aren't damaging it and it's impossible to argue that robots should have right-of-way. If you overturn them, the company might be able to bitch that you scratched the paint or something.
groans
Guess you know me better than I know myself.
Imagine thinking humans are rational beings the debate ethics every time they have a feeling. Sometimes you just gotta fuck shit up.
Under captialism we lament robots taking our jobs, where under a better system we would be rejoicing.
Do you mean the system where people would have the opportunity to cook better food for themselves instead of ordering fast food and paying exorbitant fees to have it delivered?
Pepperidge Farm remembers
https://www.cnn.com/2015/08/03/us/hitchbot-robot-beheaded-philadelphia-feat/index.html
You okay with people fucking up vending machines and ATMs too? Why or why not?
Not OP, but I would like to state that I am ok with that. You pulled a human out of the loop, and that comes with risks. Business decision.
Wouldn't this justify vandalizing any type of machine whatsoever? Get in an elevator and nobody is looking? Stab the control panel so they have to get a human in the future making the elevator. See a car and no one is looking? Set it on fire so they have to use a human pulled rickshaw instead.
Ok, so if it's not a vending machine, but a cashier and cashier gets punched by a robber it's ok as well?
You're all making logical ethics arguments on a flippant emotional comment I made. You ever just have intrusive thoughts that make you just want to fuck some shit up? That's what these robots make me feel.
People take every comment way too seriously.
I agree with you. That Philly robot wasn't even a robot, it was a pile of garbage in a chair.
The rational could be that those robots are taking the job of a human being and deserve to be robbed...
Using cars to deliver food pays very little, is dangerous (old guy with shotgun shoots your brains if you go to the wrong house), and is extremely bad for the environment. Current delivery workers could switch to a safer job with better pay and not damage the environment as much. Or we can implement UBI. Just a thought.
Edit: I would also like to point out a robotβs electric bill for a trip is much cheaper when compared to a gas or even an electric car. Ideally, the savings would be passed along to the customer.
Well⦠an old man shooting your brains out for ringing the wrong doorbell is a complete different problem.
We can also make robots to do that more efficiently.
I hate this argument... Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a job that pays a livable wage?
People aren't dealing with the dangers of delivery because they are lazy or unmotivated, they are doing it because they need the work and it pays barely enough to meet their needs.
Yes, thats why we need some fucking change in the world. My argument is just saying delivery robots are not bad.
Where the hell did I say delivery workers were lazy?
That is LITERALLY the meaning of the βLudditeβ position that has been disclaimed.
1 spray can of black paint vs 1000 robot cameras, who wins?
When wasnβt it going to be a thing?
Well, this is a side of snow crash I didn't expect to see so soon.
Actually just had that book delivered today, pretty excited to read it
At least we've moved on from killing them in the street.
Poor hitch-hiking bot.
RIP
"you wouldn't -dΜ΅oΜ΅wΜ΅nΜ΅lΜ΅oΜ΅aΜ΅dΜ΅- drone-rob a pizza..."
Sitting behind garbage bean with my Anti drone to rob a pizza.
Does Lemmy markup have
strikethru?Looks like it does! Your double ~~ are rendering strikethrough for me (Jerboa)
I had searched it up but didn't find it and just went with a shitty ASCII overlay haha
These things have been around for a few years on the college campus in my hometown, it's not that new and they do work fairly well. Might be that it was a testing ground though
My niece has them on her college campus.
College kids + alcohol + robots.... It's about what you would expect.
They rarely make it to their destinations on time.
How fast are they?
3-5mph... believe they can go much faster but they never do
I'd figured the article would have some tips but I was disappointed.
Choose your spot well, preferably near an alley without any cameras directly viewing it. Wear a no -branded hoodie, sunglasses, and a mask, then obstruct its forward path, and start spray painting the cameras. Wear gloves to avoid leaving fingerprints. If all else fails, a stun gun might be very helpful in disabling stubborn electronics.
Also, purchase your outerwear and other items from different stores with cash. But not in a circle around you. And buy the bat ears in bulk so it doesn't raise suspicion.
100% expected.
Here's an idea, don't launch these services in low trust, high crime places. In California, people can walk into a fully staffed Walgreens and commit blatant theft with no repercussions; a poor robot out in the world stands no chance.
There's a lot of parallels here. One I'm not on the side of Walgreens and I'm not on the side of the robot. If it comes down to petty crime but the only victim is an insured multi-billion dollar conglomerate I'm not going to shead a tear.
The laws for thee and not for me.
The moment I start deploying robots on publicly funded sidewalks in attempt to undercut the working class, feel free to crack one open and steal some pizza rolls.
Youve fallen into a rightwing echo chamber:
Maybe we cried too muchβ: Walgreens hints it exaggerated shoplifting surge
I used to work in a Vons in Santa Monica in 2016. We had thefts every day. Some even got violent. Our manager got tired of it and threatened to break someone's legs after they walked out of the store with something one morning. The theft problem in CA is real.
Yeah, it's called shrinkage and it's built into the profit model of all brick and mortar stores. Every store has some degree of theft, and while it increased for a short time during the middle of the pandemic, its since tapered off to normal levels.
If you read the article I posted, its clear that the rate of theft is exaggerated overall in California, especially by the commentors chosen example, Walgreens.
I'm sorry to hear about your personal experience with Vons, but it also sounds like your manager had anger issues and was part of the problem.
When I'm working 12 hours a week and seeing 3-5 thefts, plus violence, every week, it's more than just "shrinkage." I can't speak for all of CA, but that was my experience.
I used to work at a Ralph's in Santa Monica and no one stole anything ever
The Ralph's surrounding Santa Monica are pretty evenly spaced out, except for a mysterious hole where downtown Santa Monica is. My store was near downtown Santa Monica.
Lol, as if theft only happens in California. This is a ridiculous statement to make.
CA had a republican governor for how many years? It's completely exaggerated by Republicans
CA is not as liberal as people make it seem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_California_Proposition_187
And they canned Affirmative Action in 1996
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_California_Proposition_209
posted that to !shoplifting@slrpnk.net btw
Until the robots become sentient then fight back?
mf have you seen robot wars/battlebots? they just need a flywheel weapon and they're good for self defence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtdUW4dHLq0
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=PtdUW4dHLq0
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
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don't even need to be sentient. just mount a rail gun on a Spot and then we're off to the Skynet races π€
"Skynet was developed to be the command and control system for
the militaryfood delivery robots."This is why we canβt have nice things.
These were never nice things.
I really loath thieves, but that's fucking hilarious.
My brain assumed from the title that this would actually be about robot porch pirates now prowling the neighbourhood. I'm thankful we're not there... yet.
These robots are a hazard and a nuisance to the pedestrians. I won't shed a single tear for these tincans on wheels. I would not order one of these either.
Yeah cars are so much better and safer \s
You don't get to choose if your order is delivered by one... these have been in operation worldwide since 2014, alongside traditional delivery drivers
Fuck those cogs or any human that dares to be an aug. I'll trashem whenever I see em.
βCogsβ - did you really just use a slur they invented for Deus Ex game as a real slur? Gonna call them clanks and hanzers too?
Even if you did, you realize those are in universe slurs and indicate the person is ignorant, right?
Without that context the above comment is deranged.
This is actually how rights for robots will be a thing. So the proletariat knows to stay in line and never harm or try to subvert the robots made by the elite class to extract wealth
Exploiting the proletariat
Extracting wealth
Arm the robots.
I don't want to rob it; I want to turn it on its side, put it in a box, put a tiny tire boot on it.
I support it.