First Presidential Debate Megapost!
Here we go, the first Presidential debate between Biden and Trump begins at 9 PM Eastern/6 PM Pacific.
How to watch it:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/25/politics/how-to-watch-cnn-debate/index.html
"The CNN Presidential Debate will air live on CNN, CNN International and CNN en Español, and via streaming on Max for subscribers and without a cable login on CNN.com. CNN will make the debate available to simulcast on additional broadcast and cable news networks.
You can also follow CNN’s live debate coverage on CNN.com, which will include analysis and fact checking."
"According to parameters set by CNN in May, all participating debaters had to appear on a sufficient number of state ballots to reach the 270 electoral vote threshold to win the presidency and receive at least 15% in four separate national polls of registered or likely voters that meet CNN’s standards for reporting.
Polls that meet those standards are those sponsored by CNN, ABC News, CBS News, Fox News, Marquette University Law School, Monmouth University, NBC News, The New York Times/Siena College, NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist College, Quinnipiac University, The Wall Street Journal and The Washington Post."
Edit And that's it! Thanks for watching everyone!
tl;dw:
Consensus is Trump didn't so much as beat Biden as Biden beat himself.
The real loser is CNN who failed to fact check anyone, and there were obvious fact checks on both sides.
Oh. My. God.
It's literally two old-as-fuck fucks arguing about their golf swings. This is literally how the debate is coming to a close. I just... I don't even know what to say.
That was ironically the best summary of the damn debate. Two out of touch liches talking about golf.
I wonder how the liberals feel now, that pushed Biden on electability and rejected any more radical options because they were too scary and conflicting with the party line.
Smug rich beltway liberals completely detached from reality now get to feel stupid for a second and bewildered as they try to pivot to blaming this again somehow on “tHe LeFt!” (Aka mild social democrats everywhere else in the world)… but otherwise they think they’ll be okay, regardless of if a D or R is in charge (since they STILL don’t seriosuly take the threat of Trump and the far right rising everywhere) since at least they didn’t let some filthy FDR-type who might DARE to raise their taxes by like 0.5% after 6 years or whatever… like Bernie or Warren or Whitmer or Bowman or AOC even get to compete for the primary nomination.
They have doomed the rest of us… and possibly themselves depending now on how successful “Project 2025” is at completely permafucking us all back into the dark ages as the world burns hotter every fucking month.
I still can’t believe that 3 years after January 6th - where they fucking saw some of those goons with fucking ZIP ties - they think they won’t put be up against the bloody poles by mobs whipped up into a frothing frenzy by their demagogue-emperor god.
I liked the golf part because you can tell it REALLY ticked Trump off.
The problem is he fucked the delivery and Trump got to be in the position to cut him off with a high road comeback. "Let's not be children." Biden muttered something after that but the damage was done.
Biden said "you are the child." It was a "no u" moment, so I rolled my eyes.
But to be fair, Biden also attacked Trump several times. He called him a liar to his face. He referred to him as "this guy," and called him a convicted felon.
Too bad he didn't have the same energy he had during the State of the Union.
Edit: sorry, I referred to moments other than the golf one. And yes, I agree with you. His delivery was poor.
Oh yeah he had strong moments, but during the SOTU and 2020 debates he was far stronger. I actually believe he's sick. The problem is that excuse doesn't fly with the American people. It didn't help Hillary out either. That's also why I'm sure this isn't a speech impediment problem. Here's the 2020 debate. It's night and day.
Or anyone period.
They're as confident now as they were in October 2016.
The moderators should be ashamed of themselves.
Trump hasn't answered a single question in 20 mins.
"I just wanna go back to that."
They are allowing gish galloping like a motherfucker and Biden has to defend himself from a thousand lies AND answer the question asked while Trump spews bullshit unending.
Not a single fact check. It's not that hard to state when something is inaccurate and challenge the speaker
Oof, yes, we need opponents for this guy who understand the fundamentals of how he and his rhetoric work. The better way to deal with him is to flip the frame. Specifically, in the opening statement, Biden needed to call out very explicitly that Trump was going to lie constantly, and furthermore, point out that you can recognize his lies when he says "best, strongest, biggest, greatest." That little bit of verbal jiu jitsu would've ensured that it was no longer Biden calling out the lies, but the viewers' own ears, and by bringing them to conscious attention, draining the power of those statements. (Trump spews lies and nonsense that don't parse analytically, like that alphabet-soup closing statement, but he's really aiming his words at the subconscious mind.)
Yes, they should have been fact checking Trump or better holding him to his answers - but to be fair maybe they should have been asking Biden to actually clarify if he's beating Medicare or getting COVID passed.
This was a shit show.
And it was such a shit show that Trump was a complete clown and getting away with it - not just because of the moderators, but because his opponent was as on point as a tree stump.
Why? They accomplished what they were there to do.
I keep tryna tell people Zazlov wants CNN to be right wing
Source
Entertainment above all.
The bigger half US doesn't care about facts.
The only criterion that's needed is TO SPEAK LOUDLY.
The Onion from the top rope!
WE ARE SO FUCKED
This was the only thing I said within 60 seconds of the debate starting. We are so fucked
Progressives tried to tell you.
can't afford to leave this country, too poor and too unskilled.
absolutely going to be a target affected by project 2025 -- being gay, I reckon once republicans are done antagonizing trans people, we'll be the next priority target.
And even if Biden wins, the country will still be exactly as fucked as it is now -- and if Biden's abilities are like this now, where will they be at the end of his term, if he even makes it that far?
anyone moving to canada, please for the love of god smuggle me in your luggage.
Fucking no fact checking is insanity.
This is literally constant stream of bullshit from Trump.
Let's be honest, fact-checking doesn't matter to the American people watching this. The people who need to hear these facts have already been preprogrammed to believe CNN is biased and lying.
It is about not forcing Biden to spend half of each response regarding to blatant lies like... Biden being pro Palestine.
Trump demanded the debate, Biden should have demanded thorough fact checks with graphs and balances.
I personally would not have stepped in any debate setting with a certified liar and scammer without any sort of fact checking, it's just foolishness.
I seriously doubt it but I really hope this is a wake-up call for Democrats. I remain convinced that Biden voluntarily stepping down and permitting a younger more charismatic figure in his place will be all that is needed to win, and I say this for a few reasons:
Call it a reverse-October surprise.
That being said, this is the earliest debate ever and Trump still needs to go through sentencing in July. People won't really remember this debate, but it certainly did not help Biden in any capacity.
Oh, they will play this debate in clips forever.
We live in an age of YouTube and tiktok shorts.
That "destroy Medicare" gaff that Trump capitalized on clowning him for is definitely gonna make the rounds. Makes Trump look sharp (honestly in the case it was fairly witty) and Biden look senile.
I'd elect just about anyone over Trump but c'mon Biden.
The memes write themselves.
Dude, democrats are killing it in every other metric this election season. We got some serious swing state polling right now. You are exactly right that if we can get someone new and more progressive, it would be a slam dunk.
Hell, conservative media is pretty scared right now that this very thing may happen. They know it would not just hurt their chances, it would fuckin’ bomb them.
What I saw up there was elder abuse. That was sad for Biden and sad that the DNC cancelled primaries for this when they knew this was happening.
We all know that Biden is a liability. BUT WHO WILL REPLACE HIM? I don’t like the man but who else in the party can take his role? Nobody credibly challenged him during the primary. Harris doesn’t poll as well as Biden and does worse. We’re stuck with him because nobody stepped up all year or last year, and everyone who wants him to step down thinks some magic TBD savior can show up out of nowhere and magically do better. Heck, Dean Phillips tried to run for president on the exact same issues and promised identical policies just in a younger person and he lost the race badly.
We’re stuck with Biden, and likely will lose.
Gretchen Whitmer
"MAGA tried to kidnap and kill me" is a pretty good campaign narrative.
Gretchen, Booker, Buttigieg, Abrams, even Newsom. Lots of potential candidates that are young, charismatic, and have largely clean slates like Obama.
People fell in line to avoid another 2016 infighting, not because we don't have candidates. Literally anyone young would do better for aforementioned reasons.
The only way this works is if Biden voluntarily agrees and steps down, which ensures nobody is burned by the party.
Newsom looked strong on MSNBC post debate.
Honestly he would come out swinging and well backed financially. He's moderate but not truly conservative from a leftist POV and moderate but not truly leftist from a "between the parties" POV.
He could do it.
Also I have a soft spot for California Gubernatorial races. They're just more fun.
The only problem I see with Newsom is that California is already largely demonized by Midwest voters as some sort of liberal hell hole. He’d need to find a way to resonate with low income, non-coastal voters.
Id be happy with Bernie
How is it possible that there's no one better than Biden? He's just so unelectable.
I mean, ok he's done some great things as pres... but he's too fucking old. JFC. Someone in their 50s
wake up calls don't do shit when you're not interested in "waking up"
every day, event, poll, election is "a wake up call to Democrats"
What the fuck are the moderators even there for?
So much time is being taken with, "let me keep talking about the question from ten minutes ago and ignore what you just asked."
Sorry people with children. The question that focused on your issues were just skipped over.
The debate was too late to hire a child to read the questions. Would have conflicted with bed time.
I'm going to vote for policy, not a person. I don't agree with Trump on anything, so I'll vote for Biden.
I’m voting for Biden still bc Trump is a piece of shit, but Biden is coming off old and weak in this debate. Trump is lying his ass off about everything and not getting called out on any of it, and because he’s spouting so much of it so quickly rapid-fire, it’s obfuscating and confusing the issues.
Yeah watched after his last rant the moderater said he had 37 seconds to answer the actual question asked and then allowed him to rant for another fucking minute and half. Then gave Biden 30 seconds to give a weak ass answer.
Why is Biden acting like he doesn't know where he is? What the fuck.
It’s a torrent of bs from trump. It comes out so fast that there’s no way to cover it all and still get facts out along with future policy statements.
Gish gallop.
Trump is playing pigeon chess. Strutting around, telling lies, shitting all over everything, and will leave telling everyone he won.
No policy debate. Zero.
"I have the biggest heart on this stage!"
"I had the best environmental numbers!"
"I did not have sex with a pornstar!"
I lol’d at the part where he denied having sex with a porn star. Outrageous after just being convicted for misuse of campaign funds to bribe a porn star because he had sex with her.
Jon Stewart was kind of brutal:
"Lots of people have 'resting 25th amendment face.'"
We live in a world where Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho is more electable than the candidates we have.
I figured Idiocracy was prescient, but it's coming true awfully fast.
Even by Idiocracy standards, You people gotta recognize something. President Camacho.
Former pro wrestler turned porn star turned president. He dresses in American flag pants, he addresses the nation by dancing, singing, and firing a gun into the air and rallying them with his aggressively patriotic (if completely empty) rhetoric. He's energetic, likable, and absolutely captivating.
It's not just flash, by the way. Sure, he may drive a monster truck, and sure, he wears a giant medal around his neck.
But President Camacho's bombastic patriotism is not only inspirational and exciting and explosive, it's also an incredibly useful quality for a leader to have, especially for his situation. America was struggling through a time of unprecedented poverty and loss, but it had a leader who still thought America was the best place in the world.
It's not just President Camacho's patriotism that makes him a great leader. Eventually, in the movie, Joe is brought to the attention of President Camacho.
This weird-talking time traveler with his fancy ideas made it all the way to the White House, because an IQ test claimed he was the smartest man alive.
And when that happened, President Camacho did a remarkable thing. He recognized that Joe was smarter, and he bowed to his wisdom.
Everyone ,everyone, in the world of Idiocracy resented Joe, because he talked differently and because his ideas, to them, sounded crazy. They turned against him out of their fear, their pride, and their inability to understand him.
Everyone else, when faced with Joe's unconventional ideas, immediately went on the defensive and resented Joe. He didn't fit in with their weird hive mind of delusion and idiocy.
Yet for all of his pomposity and ridiculousness, Camacho had the clarity of mind to look beyond all that. What he saw was a man who was smarter than himself, and he had no problem humbling himself and saying "Let's trust the smart guy."
I want President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho.
That man is what a true patriot looks like. Not these flag-waving insurrectionist stooges.
I thought that the introduction going over the rules reminded me of some kind of sports coverage, like ESPN8 covering Dodgeball, and that it reminded more of how close that would be to Idiocracy.
I then joked that I half expected a woman in a red, white, and blue bikini holding up the round number between each question.
That's the next debate.
Trump's idea, until he backtracks on stage and says he 'never knew this woman.' And Biden's team goes along with it, thinking it will be a distraction, and somehow Biden blurts this out and makes it backfire.
This candidate brought to you by Carl's Jr.
He’s not answering Jan 6 directly.
And he’s blaming Pelosi? For Jan 6? Did I hear that right?
Yep. And no fact check means it's true in Trumpland.
Or just anyone who's not clued in. Trumpland will vote even if they know he's lying. It's the people that barely pay attention to politics that will hear a confident politician say something and assume it's true.
and biden is not jumping on it. Fucking worthless old man just fucked us back to president trump.
This country is cooked with these two as the choices. Biden looked awful, and Trump didn't answer anything at all. Trump gets a pass on never having any substance to his replies. It is just jokes and insults.
Trump should NEVER get a pass. He's had enough of those.
The media is to blame here handling this debate like it is a Wrestlemania match. No pushback at all for Trump dodging questions and letting them go on about golf when people's materials needs aren't met and they just criminalized being homeless. Very unserious debate moderators.
And lies. Lots and lots of lies, from the mouth of the lying liar.
I guess...
Biden fucked up. But I don't think this really changes anything.
Nobody is voting for Biden because we like him. We are voting for him because we give a shit about human rights and democracy. And democrats generally are good at actually listening to what is being said because... we want things.
republicans hate biden and are just happy they heard that brown people are killing and raping everyone. Nothing changed there
What Biden needed to do was win over the dumbass moderate/"undecided" voters. Which... is not talking points or policy. It is strongman bullshit. And that... is going to almost be entirely up to The Internet. Do we focus on Biden stuttering and having aphasia that he has had for decades? Or do we focus on trump blatantly lying and still talking about asking Nancy Pelosi to lead an insurrection for him?
John Oliver and the rest of the late night hosts are going to be working overtime to remind the country that having a deranged fascist in charge is bad. The Hasans of the world are going to keep talking about "Genocide Joe" because they are useful idiots, at best. But... I don't know beyond that.'
That said, I do think about the questionably accurate story that nixon (ugh) won his debate against kennedy (lesser ugh) among radio versus television listeners.
Biden mostly won in terms of text. He lost in terms of audio. But... people live on twitter and social media. How many people are going to be watching clips versus reading excerpts and tweets?
You are correct - this will be about the undecided and independent vote. And yes, signalling in the coming days will be important, focus on Trumps lies and obvious deflections.
That doesn't change that Biden did not do a good job, and that that will make things a lot harder. It's not the commies and hard lefties, the "useful idiots" in your eyes, that dominate the discourse, it will be pundits and just your everyday Joes talking to each other. And they have not been given good material from the Democrats with Biden, it's going to be hard work to counter what is an intuitively understood truth with the average watcher: Biden did not do well and left so much on the table, where he could have done a better job attacking Trump on his obvious deflections and lies. The hope is, that maybe the common undecided voter has become tired of Trump's shtick, countering the surface-level feelings.
I have absolutely zero issues with lefties. Hell, I am one.
I do have an issue with the tankie dumbfucks who will STILL talk about "Genocide Joe" when we have video evidence of trump saying he outright wants the Palestinians eradicated and thinks Biden is too soft on them.
But also: The average person didn't watch that debate. Or they ducked out in horror when Biden came out sounding like death. They are going to be listening to what influencers say. Some of those influencers are people with incredibly smart teams behind them who focus on the issues and social justice (e.g. John Oliver). Others literally go to the bathroom while playing the work of others and then shit on said work while claiming to be a leftist.
And others still are "that friend who is really political" who is mostly parroting what other influencers have said.
The convention in August is going to be interesting.
"I had the best environmental numbers ever," whatever that means, is hilarious for Trump to say
The quote of the night: “President Trump, the question was…”
If Biden is going to be replaced it has to be a huge name like AOC or Bernie. It’s too late to campaign anyone newer
The DNC would rather let Trump win than Bernie
Or AOC.
AOC technically won't be old enough until October 13th, which I guess isn't a problem for being sworn in in January. But I don't see people voting for someone who just qualified weeks before the election.
I think technically she's qualified now because she would be old enough when she takes office.
The larger problem is her gender and progressiveness. If Democrats switch horses now they need twice the amount of money and the most solid of supports.
Also, this is why we should have had a real primary. This would have come out months ago and he could have gracefully stepped aside.
Draft Jon Stewart
Gavin Newsome? He's got name recognition and notoriety.
Plus, he's been moving to the right as quickly as he can for months, so the party should love him by now.
This was the single hardest thing to watch in my entire life. RIP usa your fates sealed
So is the rest of the world. What is in store next for humanity is an era of global chaos followed by nuclear war.
Enjoy your fascist hellscape.
Unfortunately the ramifications will, rest assured, be global. So you'll get to enjoy it too! Yay!
This idiocy will end this mistake of a planet. Might be for the best, if life were to spread through the galaxy from here, we'd be contaminating it with so much war, slavery and other miseries. Good luck to whatever spawns here next.
Turns out the Great Filter is fascism.
Enjoy your new era of global chaos followed by nuclear war.
All the post-debate commentary basically says everyone they're hearing from in the party and undecided voters were like... yeah, we are fucked.
They have even made the point that he's not technically the nominee until the convention twice so far. I.e., we need a new candidate.
And it CAN'T BE KAMALA.
Good god, I had to stop watching after the abortion question.
Trump actually has managed to keep his composure so far. Sure, he's spouting out lie upon lie that CNN is allowing to continue un-fact-checked. But he at least sounds like he knows what he's talking about, and is showing something resembling energy.
Biden looked like a nursing home patient that should've been guided out by his nurse. He sounds even worse. That freeze-up at the end with him stuttering and just blurting out a random "I beat Medicare" or whatever that was is going to fuel the entire Republican campaign for the next 5 months. That is literally the exact moment Biden lost this election, mark my words. The man is performing like he's sundowning.
If he gets better, God bless him. But I cannot see how anyone can have confidence in that man after that performance. He doesn't look like he'll make it another 4 months let alone another 4 years.
Pains me to say I agree with you. Biden with that slack jawed confused look, looking down, off into nothing, barely moving. This is Nixon/Kennedy debate x 100.
Why are you focusing on Biden? At least he's answering the questions. Trump can't answer the correct question.
He's usually on the previous one. For one response Trump didn't answer it at all and ended early. The moderator was like "uhh you have 80 seconds left". That's dementia. Biden's hoarse throat is not.
Edit: another one "uhh sir, the question was about addiction. You have 67 seconds left."
And until he says something more memorable than answering the first question with a bunch of stuttering, ums, uhs, and then a random "I beat Medicare!", whatever that means, then none of that will matter to most people. That soundbyte was an absolute disaster that he may not recover from.
I served in the military, this made me sad for our country. I'm angry at Trump and embarrassed for Biden.
Biden absolutely killed it in his state of the union address. How the f*ck did this happen? I am furious at Biden for letting down the country.
Trump keeps dodging questions by going back to the previous topic. It gives him as much time to talk as he wants. And then he doesn't have to spend as much time on the issues where he is weaker.
The problem is that the debate doesn’t really change much… except for low information and undecided voters. They don’t know what Trump is spewing and whether it’s a lie or not. When he makes up wild claims that Biden is unanimously declared worst president in history, they don’t know that’s a lie, or that Trump is lying about capping the price of insulin or the existence of 9 month elective abortions, etc. Trump’s confident lies actually win over a lot of undecided people who don’t do any research into the topic.
What a great line to go to commercial on. "Something snapped when you lost". Probably one of Biden's best moments
The elimination of the First Past the Post voting system would allow voters to support third-party candidates without the fear of causing a spoiler effect. This change would promote greater competition in elections, improving the caliber of candidates available to all voters. Also, it is likely to boost voter turnout and increase political engagement.
Electoral reform has already been achieved at the state level; Alaska and Maine have successfully implemented changes to their electoral systems, demonstrating that broader reform is feasible.
However, Republicans have taken steps to preserve the First Past the Post voting system. For instance, Florida recently outlawed Ranked Choice voting. Despite this setback, there are numerous alternatives to First Past the Post, ensuring that bans like Florida’s do not obstruct progress toward electoral reform.
This raises the question: why do predominantly Democratic states continue to utilize First Past the Post voting? Why continueto use a voting system favored by Republicans? In states controlled by Democrats, there are no Republican obstacles preventing these reforms.
It is evident that Democrats recognize the shortcomings of First Past the Post voting. Mentioning third-party voting on social media often prompts numerous Democrats to caution against “wasting” votes that could inadvertently benefit Republicans. It is perplexing to acknowledge flaws in the voting system yet fail to take action to address them. Lecturing others about the drawbacks of First Past the Post voting while neglecting to pursue solutions is contradictory and counterproductive.
Here are some videos on the topic if you’d like to know more:
First Past The Post voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
Other electoral systems to choose from:
Alternative vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE
Ranked Choice voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2fRPRkWvY
Range Voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3GFG0sXIig
Single Transferable Vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI
STAR voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-mOeUXAkV0
Mixed Member Proportional representation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0I-sdoSXU
Brandon shit the bed. But I’d vote for his corpse over the traitor.
His corpse would be surrounded by intelligent and decent people, all of which are more capable of governing than T**** and his fascist reality show contestants. It's unfortunate Biden didn't take his top secret brain drugs tonight, but it changes nothing for me.
They're just letting Trump lie about shit on stage.
Why is there no fact-checking on air? Why even have moderation if they do nothing to challenge the two?
Republicans threw a shitfit and it got cancelled.
CNN wants it's ratings cow back
I like how they also promptly stopped cutting off candidates by muting mics. Several times both talked over.
They always intended to.
I voted for Biden and I'll vote for him again to keep a fascist out of office, but it is quite clear that the best thing Democrats could do is to have Biden back out and put forth a younger charismatic candidate. Age and the excitement about someone fresh would be enough to sweep this. That's just a reflection of what polls are already telling us. The debate just started, but it's quite clear that the optics of a debate thus far are going to Trump.
100% agree. Imagine Buttigieg up there running circles around Trump.
Buttigieg, Booker, Abrams, fuck even Warren despite her age would mop the floor with Trump.
Wild that I got downvoted to hell like 9 months ago for suggesting such a thing
That sucked, my dudes. u_u
Yeah, from a Canadian looking south, there's no two ways about it. Not Biden's best night, he brought a solid platform but the debate did not go in the way he wanted it to be.
Trump brought nothing of substance to the debate, lying his ass off as usual and pandering to his base. Also expressing Putin's dreams and stuff. Yet, Biden's presentation tonight could hardly beat a pet rock at a debate...
I'd fantasize about Bernie Sanders, AOC or anyone spry and progressive take the Democratic presidential candidate role for 2024, C$50 to charity if they do, but most are expected to know that even if Biden's not perfect it's his team that actually got things done unlike Trump whose entire presidency was about himself.
Edit 2: I'm hoping the poor performance is overshadowed by the real consequences of electing Trump beginning to show themselves with Friday morning's SCOTUS decisions.
Commercials, during the debate, how American.
Well, we knew that going in. Biden needs to use the opportunity to drink some water.
Probably to late but Biden looks so weak right now. I knew this debate was a no win for Biden.
Wow, I didn't see it as I was working. It was somehow worse than I thought even after reading all the threads. Biden should not be there. I will be voting for whomever the democrats nominate because the alternative is worse, but the US is so fucked.
Bidens closing statement wasn't strong... but nothing about his performance has been strong.
he had a couple good lines but I legit think he was sick. He started off very weak and then the closing statement was rough. Besides that, it wasn't too bad
MSNBC is saying Biden has a cold.
I switched to MSNBC. Biden sounded great at the watch party right after the debate. We could really have used that energy and audible clarity during the debate.
Yup... why the fuck did he not sound like that during the debate?
God, Biden was just pathetic and old in this debate and got steamrolled by a coked up, orange fat ass old man.
“The fact checkers will fix my performance,” says the guy running for president.
Underestimating Trump was the death of Hillary Clinton. This time it could be the death of free and fair elections.
You can always hide the hunt for a replacement as the hunt for VP.
The gish gab is out of control. Trump didn't even answer the last question. These moderators suck.
If there wasn’t a convicted Felon on the stage right now, the mishandling by the moderators would be the biggest criminality right now.
Lol...it took 3 minutes after the debate for ABC to essentially call for Biden to step down. Finally someone said the quiet thing out loud.
That might have been the worst debate performance in the history of US presidential debates. When Kennedy won might be the only other death swing in polls like we will see tomorrow.
Here’s how I feel about it, as someone who would vote for a rock over Trump.
I don’t think anyone is voting for Biden because of Biden. It’s because of the alternative, which is Trump.
It’s okay for Democrats to find a more ambulatory “not Trump”. Gavin Newsom, Gretchen Whitmer, Cory Booker, Pete Buttigieg…choose someone and replace him tomorrow. I’d still hold my nose and vote Biden, but I don’t think it’s good for the country and I believe it’s truly a vote for his VP, who is not very likable.
So they're gonna replace Biden now right??
I sure hope so.
They have to.
I can't believe his debate camp didn't work on Biden not doing that confused, slack-jawed stare all the time.
That is the expected facial expression when sharing a stage with Trump.
Watching the PBS stream and they show the attack ad against Biden;
"Are you financially better off since he became president."
Is your family safer?
Is our country more secure?"
Yes to all three in my family's case.
Thanks to Democratic legislation I dodged nearly $35,000 in emergency medical expenses and instead had to only pay about $750. Thanks to the IRA legislation, I was able to invest in both solar and an energy-efficient A/C for my house for which I got 30% off through deductions that I otherwise wouldn't have obtained.
I definitely feel safer in this border state, my elections more secure, and I appreciate a leader who stands up to global tyrants.
Biden is hammering home a lot of important shit. I'd say he's warmed up by now.
Though him lying that Hamas is the only group that wants war between Israel and Palestine was a disgusting, vile lie, when it's been constantly reported that Netenyahu and those around him are rabidly in favor of continuing it
I hate everything about it. I wish it wasn’t happening. That demented orange convicted felon rapist should be in prison, not promoted from every media orifice.
I disagree Joe is going to get anything from this. But, the die is cast so - baby needs a new pair of shoes!
At the very least, it's not going to be fun for Trump. If they actually mute his ass it's going to drive him insane. I will enjoy that.
These gentlemen are debating each other with the confidence and energy of a 6th grade debate club. This is simultaneously the most hilarious and terrifying thing I've ever seen.
"We had H2O", what is he even talking about? It's scary to realise his cult just accepts anything he says.
And then a confused attack on Trump on climate change that was so softball and not to the point... oof... Biden, why?
Jesus Joe!
JUST TELL HIM HE HAD THE BOARDER BILL KILLED!
Of course, Trump completely deflects on the climate change question.
If you don’t try to understand what they are actually saying, Trump sounds like the better candidate just by confidence and speaking clearly. SMH
Well, it's easy to speak strongly when you don't have to worry about what you say being in any way factual.
Why do we only get 90 minutes. Why do they only get 1 minute to answer. Sit the down and have an actual discussion damnit. You're trying to run a country not win a talent show. I want hear how their brains work, not their mouths.
You’re absolutely right. We are so far away from being able to do that.
I keep tuning in and out. I tune out when Trump speaks because everything he says is just such an affront to objective reality. But then I also tune out when Biden speaks because... He just comes off as so old it's making me cringe. Like, this is the best we could come up with to combat a literal fucking fascist.
Then I wonder, what part of this am I listening to? The questions?
While Biden talks more sense than Trump (not a high bar), he looks like he’s gonna drop dead any minute, and his hoarse voice isn’t helping.
Trump can’t lie fast enough.
This is awful without fact checking.
I hope one of the tracked statistics is Trumps lies per minute speaking.
My god let the poor old man rest, this is senior abuse and torture at this point
Biden dying would have been the only that that could have saved that debate. Trump answered no questions, but his base wont pick up on that. And anyone who is undecided wont either.
They're going to make a bunch of super cuts out of this and that's all anyone will see one Facebook, twitter, instagram, and tiktok
Serious question, for anyone masochistic enough to still be watching: Has Biden's performance improved enough to negate the moment that will be on every GOP attack ad for the next 5 months, or does he still look like he needs to be walked back into his room and told that no, it's not 1975 any more........
Enough? No.
Edit: It's really not good. He's pulled it together a bit, but there's no way around it. At least Trump unraveled to his usual form. It would've been worse if he kept his composure he had in the first 15 minutes. My heart sank when Joe looked like he was watching cartoons dance around the room and TRUMP was the cool and reserved candidate.
Not really. Still muttering.
He got a little more energetic, but not enough, really.
I watched the whole thing even though I knew it was done within the first 4 minutes. I hope to be able to vote for whichever democrat replaces Biden as the nominee.
No, not really. He still looks confused and is still muttering.
His performance has improved tremendously, but the damage may have already been done. I’m wondering how many people kept watching past the first 20 minutes.
Agreed. One strategist on PBS pre-debate show put it succinctly: "The debate is won or lost in the first 30 minutes."
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-misinformation-election-debate-trump-biden-577507522762aa10f6ee5be3a0ced2bb
This is promising. Trump just lies (surprised face), Biden just exaggerates or makes small speaking errors. (Among all the brain farts and studdering)
I watched some of it. Super embarrassing for Biden. Added all the fodder Fox needs to make edits and clips until the end of time.
Fuck everything about this. I can’t bear to watch.
Welp I'm going to find a bridge and throw myself off of it.
Please stay strong. We're all in this together.
I hope the fact that the current SCOTUS just legalized bribery comes up.
Jesus, Trump bringing up the idea of post-birth abortion. I hope people see through it.
This debate makes me want to BE a post-birth abortion.
Of All the debates ever of all time, this has certainly been one
I'm tapping out for my sanity
There’s literally no fact checking going on by the moderators. This is so dumb.
Also, Biden seems to be warming up.
Thank God. Biden did not look good. Trump can just spew lies and do it loudly and it makes him look good even though what Trump is saying is nonsense and lies.
Biden is a manchurian candidate says the guy sucking putins dick
I am a European who has just woken up and started watching the news. I think it is a good time to look for alternatives to NATO
Did Trump call Biden a criminal?
Multiple times.
This is elder abuse. How did we end up with these two candidates?
I can't wait to find out tomorrow how it's pro-Palestinian protestors fault that Biden can't speak above a whisper.
Two words: brokered convention.
I almost wonder if Biden's staff suggested this super early pre-convention debate so he would be forced to acknowledge he needs to step down. I can't see any other explanation.
The right thing to do would be for Biden to step down. The smart thing to do would be a brokered convention. Neither will happen. This is a disaster.
There's about six weeks to the convention. That's enough time but barely. Harris will want to take the top spot, and maybe she should, but Newsome is the one that could beat Trump, maybe.
What a disaster.
That was disappointing.
[I want to believe.jpeg]
Fuck you Frank! ;)
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fuck%20you%20Frank
“I don’t think he knows what he said either.”
That was a fucking kill shot.
It just goes to show, that rhetoric and charisma are important. They aren't the only important thing, but Jesus, if you have good points to make but can't make them properly, you will be bulldozed.
Yup.
Biden is really struggling to communicate. Likely will only get worse as time goes on. The fascist is much more eloquent. When selling something, its usually better to be well spoken. When doing something, its usually better to keep your mouth shut and hands busy
Take a shot anytime someone says “by the way”. No one will have to vote because we’ll all be dead
So, does this mean we'll have an even larger conservative SCOTUS majority?
Oh my lord, I will never, ever understand how and why Democrats argued that Biden was "the more electable" candidate. This is painful.
Oh shit. The height and weight comment was amazing.
Brilliant, but he blew it getting hung up on his golf handicap.
In some weird alternate universe where we have a 3rd party candidate, that candidate is killing it. I have redneck neighbors that would look qualified standing next to these two.
Even the brain worms guy?
Welp. Good thing we had this debate early enough for everyone to forget about it.
To the people who are calling Biden "toast" three minutes into the debate: Fuck off.
First impressions matter. Most people won't watch the debate. Of the people that do, most people won't watch all of it. He isn't doing a good job.
It sounds like trump won. And that is enough sadly. Its over for the country.
Yup checkmate. America was a good experiemnt while it lasted.
Trump is literally insulting him to his face and all he can do is look old and stupid. Fuck this.
It was bad.
I tapped out 10 minutes into it. I just couldn't take it anymore. I'm sure I'm not the only one. And let me tell you, those first 10 minutes looked BAD
This should have been on CSPAN.
This just makes me so uncomfortable. Trump isn't going to win this election, Biden is going to lose it.
I really wish Americans weren't ignorant enough to fall for someone who looks better on TV even though they're a convicted felon who tried to undermine and overthrow a free and fair election, but history tells me otherwise.
I seriously hope there are high level discussions within the Democratic party and with Biden about putting someone else forward.
FUCK YOU.
Trump still doesn't understand tariffs.
Neither do his voters.
Does Biden sound sick to anybody else? Like he has a sore throat?
To me he sounds like his throat is sore from talking. He's been campaigning a lot.
He sounds like shit and I assume that's what's going to stick, not the actual content of his words. Great. 🙄
Good lord all trump does is do “this guy over here…” bs and drags up every right wing meme piece of “fact”, and they’re all garbage.
This abortion response started good... and then he just lost it. My god he's so fucking old.
We Iranians are going to get Pezeshkian and you Americans are going to get Trump
FUN 4 YEARS COMING BOYS
Good news. Biden might be getting angry enough to go super Saiyan. Won't be good for the talking points but those are out the window with the endless lies anyway.
If he gets angry enough to get some more strength into his voice and inflection, who knows, he might not crash completely. It seems a little different than in the beginning at least right now.
Sooooooo... if this is what has finally shaken your faith in American bourgeoisie democracy, good news (sorta)! Alternatives exist, although the struggle to achieve them will be long and arduous. Our current system of propping up billionaire-approved octogenarians to give
our stolen wealthtax breaks and investment incentives to defense contractors, cops, and landlords exists very explicitly to preserve a system of private property that keeps you poor and desperate.The alternative to this is to build class consciousness and working class power in order to contest this awful system and put political and economic power directly in the hands of the working class before our impending environmental collapse. Join an organization that exists locally that's building that working class power. Seriously, don't even get caught up on which -ism best fits you, just join whatever exists locally that you can contribute to. Democratic Socialists of America, the Party for Socialism and Liberation, Socialist Alternative, the Industrial Workers of the World, Food Not Bombs, even a small community mutual aide network that supports a few of your unhoused neighbors.
This debate should be your wake-up call. The state is a fuck and you're just a sacrificial pawn in a system designed to funnel wealth upwards. It's a big club and you ain't in it.
You’re not wrong but you’re not providing any solutions either (but I won’t blame you - there aren’t any); several states have closed primaries that disallow 3rd party candidates.
Politics is local.
So Trump's going to be reelected. I don't even know if I want to keep watching this this is just sad
I’m curious to see how quickly the Dems will get a new candidate.
Primaries are over, so any replacement would be at the convention in August. Assuming Biden doesn't just pack it in.
I never even had a primary in my state… so… they’re obviously not that important.
Biden has to bring up Trump killing the border bill for political reasons. That should have been a top 3 talking point.
They lowered expectations for Trump way too much.
And if Biden doesn’t get it together immediately, it’s time to consider a new candidate. This is a disaster so far.
Agreed.
Let’s say Biden doesn’t make it to the election. Who would the democrats put forward? Harris?
Harris would likely be the DNC pick and she has a lower favorability rating than Biden.
Replacing Biden with a cop would be the most DNC thing imaginable. We're so fucked.
Gavin Newsome has been positioning himself to be able to run.
It is just Bullshit bullshit bullshit out of Trump. It's fucking wild.
Stop with the data. Joe! Short and sweet because your stutter hits.
I'm kind of reminded of that West Wing episode, where Leo McGarry keeps leaking stories about how bad he's going to be. That seem to be exactly what Trump did this last week or two. Or the people around Trump probably. Cuz as much as he's lying piece of shit he's staying on his message, which admittedly I wasn't sure he could do. On the other hand Joe Biden is a train wreck. This is extremely demoralizing.
His message is blatant lies and ignoring the prompt.
Biden is debating. trump is giving an unhinged speech.
“You are a child.”
A moment of unscripted honesty.
“Ushered in by the police” CNN is a failed news organization for allowing this to be said unchallenged
Biden is basically the cryptkeeper, but there’s a good president in there when he’s not losing his train of thought.
Trump was supposed to be weaker, but he’s doing his homework and memorizing answers. His freedom is on the line. Trump has been underestimated, and as things stand, he’s probably going to win.
He hasn't answered a question all night, and it's all lies. Every bit.
Trump is not memorizing answers. He is just ignoring questions and giving rally speeches.
Also, Biden has had a stutter for decades. It doesn't actually matter from a leadership standpoint. Just from a standing next to a school yard bully one
Ouch. That last one hurt. Biden started strong on that answer, but lost the thread.
Biden is not speaking well and is making a number of mis-statements and wavering.
Trump is the personification of confidentlywrong, but he's speaking much more strongly.
Afraid to watch thanks for summarizing for me yall lol
Well my stomach hurts after watching that. Open convention for dessert anyone?
Great answer for Biden on Ukraine and NATO. Hopefully, he’s starting to wake up.
This is just embarrassing. I can't believe Biden is the democratic nominee.
I can't believe these are our choices. We get to pick between quiet and mumbling or loud and belligerent.
Oh, we’re leading into trump word salad. He’s just spooling off stream of consciousness of trump great + Biden bad and he just strings together whatever thoughts pop into his head. That’s all he’s got.
Ugh. I can't watch this shit anymore. This format is making it impossible to even follow a single answer. It's awful. Good luck, folks.
Listening to more of the analysis and clips from the debate, Biden's performance reminded me of high school and college presentations where students over-prepared by following a very rigid, memorized script but derail because they forget a single key word or trigger. This isn't a very robust presentation strategy that can easily fail even with younger minds, let alone someone in their 80s.
Well, Biden's Charlottesville attack on Trump wasn't too bad all things considered, Trump did deflect of course, but maybe it invigorated the old fart.
Stop with the stories, Joe! Keep it simple!
We need another epidemic at this point.
Trump is flailing now. It’s a double sundown debate.
Joe studdered, and it broke his rhythm.
Joe needs a glass of water.
He needs to clam down too. He's all over the place.
Joe is pissed, I think. He can’t get the rebuttals out quick enough and it’s messing up his composure. That’s the problem though, trump tells so many lies so fast that Biden simply cannot cover them all.
My man Biden needs a drink of water.
This might be good, he pissed off Trump, now Trump is going off on his paranoia. If he keep him in that mode, that might help.
How long is this debate? 90min?
Yup! 90 minutes, so another 1/2 an hour.
Dammit joe. Say "you've decimated the middle class, and that's demonstrated by the fact that you can't even address the question of how you'll help people struggling to pay for childcare even when you were given two chances."
...Both presidential candidates did an old man stroll to their podiums. Joes pointed at his like, is it this one? And Trump walked with the confidence of a man with one podium to pick from.
MSNBC ran live footage of the Bidens at the post-debate watch party... WHY THE FUCK DID HE NOT SOUND LIKE THAT DURING THE DEBATE?
Biden really needs a glass of water
They start so well and like they're going to make a solid point and then it devolves into belligerence or mumbling.
“This guy is stupid” is the rebuttal trump uses most.
I'll be at work and avoiding the break room. I live in Utah where my options for candidates are usually "Über-Mormon Tr*mp Fascist" or "Obviously Mormon Fiscal Conservative Wealth Gospel Hate the Poor" or "Token Democrat who would shove a homeless person in front of a bus evangelical."
I'll catch the memes afterwards.
Hi everyone. I am sick of the culture war. I wish boomers would stop watching the news. Have a nice day
Biden got fucking body slammed in this debate. It doesn't matter that Trump is nonsensical. No one expected him to make sense. Biden just looked weak, confused, and mumbled his way through most of the debate.
I can't see how this possibly convinced anyone to vote for Biden. But I can definitely see how it probably demoralized democratic voters. This is just so awkward to watch.
This format really, really sucks. None of the answers can actually be thorough.
The short sound bites are exactly what Trump is best at.
They are also actively ignoring the structure to catch all the trump sound bites.
CNN is fucking us all
But the DNC said Biden was fine all the time and he wasn't senile
“Trump admits he suffers from cardiomegaly”