'Babbling' and 'hoarse': Biden's debate performance sends Democrats into a panic
nbcnews.com
The president often had a weak, raspy voice during his first debate against Trump, in what Democrats had hoped would be a turning point in the race.
The president often had a weak, raspy voice during his first debate against Trump, in what Democrats had hoped would be a turning point in the race.
I'm not in a panic. I knew this. Should he have run again? Hell no. I wish he would have had the courage to call it a day.
That being said, I'm fully willing to endure 4 years of Weekend at Bernie's if it means I won't have to go through the embarrassment of having the orange moron at the helm.
Are you willing to let Trump win though than have Biden step aside? That is what the DNC should be asking themselves. The polls are way to close for Biden to have that poor of a performance. If Democrats are seriously worried about Trump being the end of Democracy then they would not be okay with Biden being the DNC's best choice.
I think it's to late to change things up. That's the problem, everyone told the DNC this was going to happen and yet they all just kept with Biden.
That being said, I don't think either Trump or Biden are in a state to actually run the country. Their cabinets are going to hold all the power, and I trust Bidens cabinet over Trumps any day.
Any change no matter if is too late or too inconvenient would be a better change for the DNC than to allow Biden at the top position. Seriously, any other DNC politician would be better than Biden even if they changed right now or in the next few months. All you need is some politician who is about 50 years old to fight Trump every day until the election and the orange menace would suffer a heart attack trying to keep up.
This is insane .... it's almost as if the powers that be want Trump to win and the only way they can ensure that is to put him up against an 80 year old competitor because it is the only candidate he could possibly beat.
It's not up to the DNC to "allow" candidates or not. The DNC charter says the voters choose the nominee. They literally have no power to change the will of the voters. They could theoretically alter the Dem party charter, but doing so this close to an election would likely not stand up in courts. The only possible way to get a replacement candidate cough Gavin Newsom cough would be for Biden to formally ask his delegates not to select him. And since Harris would be the automatic replacement she would likely have to agree to allow someone else.
The DNC argued in court that they could ignore their bylaws and put their thumb on the scale as much as they wanted. Guess that only applies when they're fucking over progressives.
Nope. A lawyer argued in court that they could legally change the party charter, in to win a court case. Which they theoretically could, but if they tried to alter the charter this close to the election it would be overturned in court for a great many reasons.
Thinking that "DNC" small group of caretakers can choose anyone they want shows that you have a profound lack of understanding of how things actually work. Legally, control of the DNC lies in the hands of the newly elected delegates. The small caretaker group does not have the power to purge the much bigger general membership of already elected delegates. If they tried to, every single DNC delegate elected this year could sue the caretakers and would very easily win that lawsuit. Furthermore, the party charter bounds the delegates to Biden on the first ballot. Biden will have to be convinced to formally release them before they could legally vote for anybody else.
The reason why you have a profound misunderstanding of how things actually work is because you were subjected to an onslaught of Kremlin propaganda in 2016 without knowing the source. And that propaganda gave you a dunning-kruger effect of vastly overestimating your knowledge of how the political parties actually work.
Centrists gaslight when they know they're wrong.
I've read the transcripts. They argued that the charter was discretionary.
A) I voted for Bernie Sanders in 2016 and 2020.
B) This article explains how things really work and how the elected delegates are legally binded to Biden on the first ballot and that it would be illegal for anybody in the executive committee or anybody besides Job Biden to release the delegates.
https://apnews.com/article/biden-replacement-democratic-ballot-dnc-rules-7aa836b0ae642a68eec86cc0bebd3772
You misread the transcripts and it gave you a dunning-kruger understanding. Even if the lawyer had said that it would still be completely incorrect.
How utterly convenient from the party whose rules are discretionary when they want to fuck over progressives.
Gaslight someone else. I read the transcripts correctly.
Even if you provide a source, he said the opposite before a judge. Not under oath is bullshit.
The rules are hardcoded in the charter. The DNC never violated the party charter. Bernie Sanders number of delegates were 100% determined by the votes he got from people like me. I've never heard Bernie Sanders repeating your nonsense. Why the f*ck would I believe a random dunning kruger over Bernie Sanders? Bernie Sanders is way smarter than you are and he never lies.
Then provide the exact reference so I can tell you where your wrong. Show me the exact evidence where a lawyer says "my employers hereby reserve the right to ignore their own organization's charter that is the legal source of their authority". Because I've proved the opposite. And you haven't proved shit. All you ever done in this conversation is repeat vague accustions that came from the Kremlin with no details whatsoever. Also, there is no chance whatsoever that any judge would allow the DNC executive committee to arbitrary purge the 1000+ new members of the DNC and who legally control the DNC and the executive committee of the DNC.
WHO "said the opposite"? A lawyer is a hired employee, not a member of the DNC. He has no authority to violate the party charter. Not one single member of the DNC has ever said such a thing. Since the 1000+ newly elected delegates ARE THE DNC, why would they ever even want to violate the party charter? There is no chance whatsoever that any judge would allow the DNC executive committee to arbitrary purge the 1000+ new members of the DNC and who legally control the DNC and the executive committee of the DNC.
Stop with the 'gaslight' shit. You've given no evidence at all to back up anything you've said. I've 100% proved my case with authoritive sources. YOU are gaslighting ME. Also, there is no chance whatsoever that any judge would allow the DNC executive committee to arbitrary purge the 1000+ new members of the DNC and who legally control the DNC and the executive committee of the DNC.
And finally I want to say this. There is no chance whatsoever that any judge would allow the DNC executive committee to arbitrary purge the 1000+ new members of the DNC and who legally control the DNC and the executive committee of the DNC.
That "cigars" quote was from the DNC's legal counsel, acting as the party's representative in court. This was after the party had already engaged in fuckery and were arguing in court that they should get away with it.
That's the party's position regarding its charter when it's convenient to do so, which is to say, when they want to fuck over a progressive. But when there's a centrist that the party wants to hang on to, then the charter was brought down on stone tablets from Mount Sinai.
I agree. I'll vote for Biden if I have to, but if Trump wins I'm not blaming RFK Jr like they blamed Bernie and Jill Stein in 2016. I'll blame them and likely never vote for a majority political party again.
If Trump wins you will never get to vote in a free and fair election ever again.
Which will be the fault of Democrats.
This line of thought always amuses me. “It’s democrats faults for not stopping republicans from being horrible people”
Oooooorrrrr maybe it’s republicans fault… for being horrible people?
“It’s the fire departments fault my house burned down, not the guy who lit it on fire.”
Republicans are horrible people. They gaslight, obstruct & project. Democracy is on the line here, so Democrats do the logical thing. They go to a nursing home and find someone that is talking about beating medicare to help lead them to victory.
The democrats should not have dressed so provocatively!
What they are doing is akin to elder abuse
It will be the fault of Republicans first and asshats on the internet 2nd.
Not the elder abusers?
Dunno are you an elder abuser?
No I'm not Jill Biden
We heard this same talking point in 2016 but somehow we still had a 2020 election.
As if the J6 putsch didn't happen lol
As if it was successful. The US isnt a dictatorship, the president isn't a dictator, and last time they tried to overwhelm it with force it did little to the political institutions of our country other than scare some politicians. The same body that was under attack voted against calling it a coup.
i think that's only the tip of the iceberg; we're going to vote for them anyways so they literally have no reason to bother listening, ever.
That's the real danger of Donny. If you care at all about the country you have to vote for the Democrat. It gives the Dems too much power.
If this strategy allows them to win elections while putting forth the most donor friendly and least citizen friendly candidate, they're not going to stop on their own. Go vote Biden sure but in 4 year if you don't have a plan to ensure the next Dem candidate isn't the least liked person whos technically better than a Republican then you're responsible for the regression of the country.
At the end of the day, that's the main takeaway here. It's not so much the men themselves, but the people they intend to appoint to positions of authority. Biden will appoint experts and professionals to run the country for him. Trump will appoint sycophants and yes-men to do whatever he wants to do, even if it flies in the face of reason or standard procedure, and unlike last time he won't allow anyone who isn't 100% loyal to him to work in his administration.
Thats my take on it at least (although with Trump I'm not sure who will be using who if he's elected). It's frustrating that few people are talking about this, cause at the end of the day neither of them are fit (physically/mentally) to be president. So for once it really is just about the party and policies and not the person running.
What is with this absurd disconnect from reality? The DNC charter says only the voters have the power to choose the nominee.
While I agree, it's way too late in the game to change up now. There's no strong candidate waiting in the wings. It's not about willing, it's about alternatives.
Gretchen Whitmer would run away with the election. Plus, we get Michigan (swing state) and the suburban moms. I really can’t see a downside.
There are so many better options at this point. I can't help but shake that the two party system is doing exactly what it was designed to do. Make people think that mediocrity is the best we can get if we're lucky.
We got FDR and LBJ and Lincoln and Washington. So if you think that then that's on your own faulty thinking.
You're free to keep supporting Biden at this point but hopefully when you see all the Democratic news outlets saying the same things tomorrow and this coming week and the polls showing Biden's support dropping you'll reconsider
WTF are you talking about. What I want is for Biden to drop out and be replaced by Gavin Newsom. Nor did I vote for Biden in the 2020 primary. I'm just saying that you're completely wrong that the system cannot produce good candidates since we've had great presidents in the past.
There doesn't have to be a strong candidate, just anyone stronger than Biden who's basically zombie-crawling across the floor.
He absolutely can be replaced at this stage, and by nearly anyone.
Only if they can convince him to step aside and let someone else run. At this point the voters have selected 3,904 delegates who are contractually obligated to cast a vote for him at the Convention. If the delegates somehow simply ignored the primaries, they'd be quite literally ignoring the will of their voters and taking matters into their own hands. It's alarming how many on the left (who presumably had a problem with the DNC's treatment of Bernie in 2016) are cheering for the DNC to heavily influence the primary process again. I don't necessarily disagree that something drastic needs to be negotiated, but the irony of this is really hard to ignore.
This is the way the DNC set their rules up, they've been ok using the system to kneecap progressives, I see no reason that they shouldn't do that to Biden. I'm not precious about the DNC and I have no illusion that it's democratic, so they just need to stop pretending they're being held back by principles and just pull the levers they always pull to control the convention outcome.
Yes, and the rules were voted on by party members before the primary started. They're now in place, and they're obligated to respect them until this process plays out. Same thing happened in 2016. Say what you will about whether the rules were "fair" or not, they were agreed upon before Iowa, and they were respected through the Convention.
The way you use "kneecap progressives" tells me you're conflating DNC primary rules and campaign finance. The two are not the same thing. They could do to Biden what they did to Bernie and blast the airwaves with damaging, misleading attacks, but none of that would fundamentally change the fact that the primary rules were agreed upon and are immutable until the Convention comes to a close.
And to reiterate, it's not "principles" that are holding them back. It's a contractual obligation whose violation would open them up to civil litigation. Voters picked delegates and they're obligated to respect the voters who selected them. The DNC can't just tell them to take a hike.
But Biden can.
edit: AP just put out a piece that confirms what I've been saying. They'd be sued into oblivion if they usurped the process right now. The ball is very much in Biden's court.
He absolutely can't be legally replaced unless he agrees to that.
And the replacement would automatically be Harris unless she agrees to allow someone else. The DNC charter says that only the voters can select the nominee. Changing that charter this close to an election likely wouldn't stand up in courts. The only way to replace Biden would be to convince him to step down.They argued in court that they could ignore this.
Nope. They argued in court that they could alter their charter.
AOC would be a really strong candidate. The right would freak out and she'd end up getting more press coverage than Trump. I imagine she'd make several Republican's embolisms pop.
The party would rather lose democracy forever than nominate AOC.
Yes, she's probably the only one with enough name recognition and veracity to take on the orange moron in my opinion. Problem is corporate Democrats wouldn't back her because she's too progressive and that goes against their corporate masters.
True... However if Trump gets elected and our government is able to prevent a dictatorship, in 4 years progressives will hopefully realize the DNC needs them more than they need need the DNC.
the progressives already know that the dnc needs them more than they need the dnc as evidenced by dnc surrogates perpetually shaming progressives for not voting for the dnc; i'm guessing there's a typo in your sentence somewhere, but i'm not sure where.
If the progressives truly thought that then the US would have a much different stance in regards to Israel.
Now I'm sad because I remember wishing Bernie had won.
You and me both, man. He was my guy.
Bernie had the most individual donors by a landslide. Too bad Americans are too dumb and easily manipulated
I was one of them
We all are dude. Or so I am guessing.
But it was Hilary's turn! /s
C’est la vie
Embarrassment and danger.
There's no danger. Even frail Biden is 1000x more competent than trump
Danger from Trump getting elected
We'll need to see the polling in about a week but I haven't seen a performance this bad since Palin. The Democrats may need to go to an open convention.
DEAR PLEASE GOD someone turn this into comedic satire before the election!!!
I would. You would. But there are millions of voters who aren’t as informed. And what they saw last night was an ancient, out of touch candidate channeling Walter Mondale. Many will probably still vote for him, but this performance will depress voter turnout.
After he wins the election, he could retire and let Harris rule in his stead.
Then there's Schumer (provided he's still the majority leader.)
There really is no need for a weekend at Bernie's situation.
The tradition for an out-of-it pres is the first lady runs the show.
I'm okay with that. Jill is fine. Better than Melania.
So, we've got an old, racist guy who lied through most of his statements and refused to possibly say that he would accept the results of the election vs an old guy with a history of a speech impediment that showed signs of his speech impediment and regularly pointed out the lies spouted off by his convicted felon opponent. Why are the media companies banking Trump again?
Biden's performance wasn't an impediment. It was him fumbling and stuttering over his words, forgetting his debate prep and saying nonsensical things. I absolutely do not want Trump to win, but Biden's debate performance in reality was poor. Many Democrats don't want to accept that. It is fine if they want to ignore facts. The truth is the Democrats would be far better off if Kamala or AOC or someone else was running for President, and they are risking way too much despite the facts.
It's not just a speech impediment, it's a speech impediment in a fucking 81 year old man who shouldn't be dealing with a stressful job in politics. Been around many octogenarians? He did great for someone his age.
If he were up against someone in their 30s or 40s, it would be terrible but, against an old racist nazi who can only seem to make complete statements when they are provably false? Well, I'd still prefer someone else but at least he has the balls to actually say the forbidden words of "you're lying" and he's the only choice that we're allowed to have as infuriating as that is.
Trump is almost the same age and he is a liar but he also was quick enough to immediately use Biden's blunders against him. Pretty much everything Biden said sounded scripted and then he still messed it up. Biden didn't "look" like the smarter candidate. There is enough misinformation out there that if people go searching they'll find sources that support Trump's lies. Trump won for the undecided tonight that watches the debate and uses it to make s decision.
Anyone who was "undecided" tonight was going to support Trump anyway, either directly or with a "protest vote". Basically, to they were either lying to themselves or others and are quite alright with a nazi.
This is factually not true, and there are several people that don't research every detail but try to make a decision based on intuition and performance... And even if they do research there are a lot of hook and bait misinformation networks that get routinely featured on Google News and other news aggregators. If someone thought Trump sounded like a stronger candidate tonight they may end up researching and seeing news supporting Trump's version of events.
Until you can back up your statements with verifiable evidence, you should probably just stop
10% of people who voted for Biden last time are switching to Trump according to a survey from a few months ago.
AOC? An ambitious woman who just barely will have squeezed past the minimum age requirement by the time of the election and half the country has decided is a communist? Don't get me wrong, I think she'd be a fantastic candidate, maybe even the best, but I sincerely doubt that she'd poll better than Biden, even considering his horrendous performance in yesterday's debate.
I watched it and this wasn't a stutter. This was a loss of his train of thought, switching topics unexpectedly, and creating needless openings for Trump to talk about things Biden didn't have a good defense for. To be clear his decision making faculties are obviously intact. But this performance was really really bad. Night and day from 4 years ago.
It absolutely wasn't just a stutter. It was an 81 year old with a history of speech impediment - things like that can manifest differently in old age. Maybe it's from having grown up with a mother who was a nurse at an assisted living facility but, I really think that anyone who was shocked was setting expectations that are disconnected from the reality of how age impacts our communication abilities. If setting the bar at standards for people 10, 20, or 50 years younger, yeah, it was terrible. Relative to people of advanced age? He did well. When you're that old, 4 years in a high-stress position is a long time.
It's a bullshit choice as neither are in an age range where they should have power over long-term policy. It's also pretty horrific in terms of ethics. But, a soggy turnip would be better than any nazi, much less a nazi who is a compulsive liar intent on using the political system for revenge and installing himself as dictator.
Exactly. I guess we are learning that most of our fellow citizens have a hard time with nuance, and all they can do is shit their pants instead of toughen up.
Some people just aren't living in denial
Did you see the audience metrics during his last presidency?
How come when they show old campaign videos of Biden where he's plagiarizing others his so called stutter/speech impediment doesn't seem to be there? And I thought the new excuse was that Biden had a cold anyway
...He was younger and the videos, being campaign videos, are edited to show him in the best possible light?
ETA: To be clear, I don't think that he or anyone else too old to have to worry about the long-term consequences of their actions should be in office. But, he's the only non-nazi choice available.
You've just been fooled by the MSM about the nazi garbage. Same with Joe being sharp as a razor. They just can't hide it anymore
No. I didn't tend to follow MSM. I think that's it's mostly that he snuggles up to dictators, says he wants to be a dictator, quotes Hitler, praises Hitler, and is supported by people waving about swastikas and spouting nazi slogans.
Yeah, you got it from the MSM. Otherwise, you'd have no reason to think that. I saw his speech that you speak of saying he wants to be a dictator, but you obviously didn't
Noone who even "jokes" about wanting to be a dictator or president for life (like he said after meeting Xi Jinping) deserves to be anywhere near a seat of power. Any feedback on the rest? Like his habit of quoting Mein Kampf, praising Hitler, or how much people who identify as nazis love him? Don't see any of that as the slightest bit problematic?
Joe's got terrorist sympathizers that like him..does that make Joe a terrorist? And just because you don't like Trumps jokes doesn't make him a dictator either. He's already been in office so we already know he's not a nazi, dictator, etc.
Joe's a racist too. His immigration policy is identical to Trump's and he's been outspoken in his seeing palestinians as subhuman.
The guy fought against school integration even before he got this old. He's always been a racist pos same as any Republican.
While I think that Joe's got some dated views, being 81, if you're honest, you've got to acknowledge that the immigration bill was nothing more than calling the GOP bluff and getting extra fodder for election ads. They knew that the GOP wouldn't allow it to pass. It's politics at its most bullshit; playing with human lives for points.
For the bussing, that was fifty, 5 0 years ago and his views have clearly changed. Yes, he has no legitimate place in politics at his age but neither does his opponent, who has been known to admire fascist and authoritarians of yore and the modern day.
A person's view shouldn't have to change on racial justice and equality, particular someone who'spart of the Democratic party. Sanders is just as old and he's always been on the right side of history, it has nothing to do with age.
Biden is still racist and even if his far-right border policy was a gambit that's really irresponsible, given the GOP could've easily just accepted the no-strings attached policy win. People need to stop making excuses for shitty politicians, and need to stop allowing the lesser evil be the enemy of good enough.
Sanders is older. And putting a finer point on it, the party was ageist af against him in 2016 when he was only 75. Being a progressive adds 20 years, I guess.
So you don't believe in forgiveness or redemption? People aren't allowed to ever change and improve themselves and are forever to be judged for every shitty thing they ever do? I dunno. I'd not want to live like that with any amount of self-reflection. I further might be inclined to question the authenticity of your claimed beliefs.
That I do agree with. The seemingly constant use of "pied piper" and similar strategies by major Dems in order to avoid the slightest possibility of leftward movement is infuriating.
Not for elected representatives, no. We're not talking about someone's uncle Randy who grew up in poverty and never went to school or met a black person or w/e. This is an educated person from a well-off background, they don't have an excuse. There are plenty of other smart, motivated people out there who are fit for office and are morally consistent on these uncomplicated issues like racism.
Anyone who takes 80 years to become slightly less racist than their younger days is not someone I want running for office. Forgive them, give them credit for sorting out their personal prejudices, sure, but they need to do that on their own time, we don't have time for leaders who are still struggling with the basics.
Biden has always been hawkish on immigration, even under Obama, whether this recent attempt was a ploy or not, it wasn't a ploy during all the other times in his career he advocated for punishing immigration policy.
Now do trump and the central park 5.
Yes, Trump is extremely racist. He's also a right-winger, so that's a given. The distinction between someone horrible like Trump and his opposition should be that the opposition is not horribly racist and fascist and doesn't do things like fund a genocide.
I don't vote for Democrats because of their label, I vote based on their potential to actually be meaningfully better. Biden is indistinguishable from your rank and file Republican, and while that's "slightly less bad" than Trump himself, it's not good enough. I am not a Republican, and I will not vote for representatives who share so many of their views. Biden needs to go, he's going to cost the Democrats the election.
BoTh SiDeS. Here you are again spewing the same tired talking points. Reality is your choices are Trump or Biden, so saying you won’t vote for either means your voice doesn’t matter and you’re ok with Trump winning.
Stop your disinformation tactics.
How high are you right meow?
How ignorant are you right meow?
It was dumb just going along with Biden as the nominee, hubris and status quo thinking. Now the Democratic party needs to come up with something to energize the electorate. Scaring people with democracy being on the line, while completely true, isn't gonna do it. Hoping the attacks on reproductive rights will carry them over the finish line is a bad idea. Trying to bring Harris out now into the limelight isn't gonna work. People are tired and struggling. The youth feel betrayed and themselves are struggling. There is no energy coming from up on top. Dems have always sucked at messaging.
Bernie Sanders would have eaten Trump alive in every debate, including this last one.
Dem leaders prefer Trump to a real structural progressive economic reform.
The billionaires buy both parties now. Capitalism sucks chunks.
The billionaires of today love the status quo.
Is a full on fascist dictatorship the “status quo” now? Surprised billionaires would be behind this.
Fascism is great for any buisness that is already established. These people are already buying off the government, they're not the little guys who could be taken over by a fascist government, they're the ones pulling the strings.
Fascism is actually terrible for capitalism in general though. Not that billionaires are smart enough to understand that.
So is oligarchy, the invisible hand, if it ever did exist, clearly no longer does if the market movements are determined by insider information and government bribes, I mean lobbying. Innovation is constantly stifled when that innovation costs rich people potential profit. Stock brokers shut down their consumer apps when those consumers invest in ways they threaten large hedge funds. Capitalists are about as good at following their dogma as Evangelical Christians.
Only an
idiotunwise person would use their phones to make stock trades.You realize most consumer level brokers have apps right? The vast majority of Americans have retirement and other investments with brokers that have apps. You don't seriously expect me to believe that inherently makes it dumb.
I'm not calling you dumb and I'm sorry I sounded that way. I would never access any financial accounts on a phone or have any financial phone apps because of the gigantic risk. And I would never make any trade that requires another human to confirm my trade. And I would certainly never let any 'broker' access to my investments.
The thing is, nobody ever said billionaires were smart. A lot of people conflate being wealthy with being intelligent, and that's simply not the case.
The fatal mistake the billionaire donor class is making here is that they think Trump can be controlled if he does win. They aren't worried about fascism because money is the real king of America and always has been.
And that line of thinking is solid until a fascist dictator who doesn't want to give up their power or have it limited by anybody else decides that the wealthy are no longer their allies and has the secret police "deal with them".
The elites thought Hitler was going to be their puppet, too.
Most of them are probably like „Republicans want less taxes for the rich and less taxes is more money for me“
Many billionaires are not only morons, they’re racist morons. They also love the trappings of fascism—as long as they get to be the ones on top.
Have you seen that article about that one techbro rich boy and how he wants to structure San Francisco? How the techbros would wear grey shirts, and their Republican friends would red shirts, and everyone else would be forced to wear blue shirts, and those with grey and red shirts would get preferential treatment, because they would buy out the cops?
It’s a chilling article; I recommend reading it.
You shouldn't be. The rich supporting fascists (and vice versa) is nothing new.
:::spoiler Excerpts from Blackshirts and Reds, by Michael Parenti
🌎👨🚀🔫👨🚀
Literally no Dem in the entire country prefers Traitorapist Trump to even a house plant. Trump and "real structural progressive economic reform" are completely disconnected things. It's not even remotely an either/or choice.
He could energize the electorate by ending the genicide in Palestine, nationalizing the rail industry or Boeing, expanding the Supreme Court and investigating their corruption, or displaying unlimited support for clean energy and dismantling the fossil fuel industry. But I doubt any of that will happen.
It won't happen because Biden doesn't want to do any of those things. The DNC would rather risk the nation crumbling into fascism than take any of those steps to stop it.
The newly elected delegates this year literally is the DNC. The smaller group of caretakers do not have the legal power to purge the large number of elected delegates. And these delegates are bound by the party charter to vote Biden on the first ballot. Unless Biden releases his delegates, which he could do and might do if convinced he is not the best choice to defeat Trump. So I am hoping that behind the scenes Dems are working furiously to convince Biden to release his delegates so that Gavin Newsome can be the nominee instead.
I think we've been operating on the false assumption that the Democratic partys primary goal is to win. I would wager that as far as campaign contributions go, it's likely better for them financially if they barely lose. I feel like the past few presidential races have been the American populace trying to force them to win anyways when they obviously didn't want to.
A lot of their decisions make a lot more sense in that context.
It’s easier to fundraise as an opposition party.
Any funds raised can only be used to win elections, not to buy themselves candy and ice cream. But if they don't win they don't get any personal gifts from lobbyists or cushy jobs after leaving office.
LMFAO that makes absolutely no sense. The only use of the money they raise is to win elections. It's not like if they lose they can use the leftover money to buy a new car. If there even is any leftover money, which there almost always is not.
I admire your optimism, but even if you aren't willing to bend the rules and stick to the letter of the ethics rules, you can still use campaign funds for a fairly broad amount of items. And, if you are willing to bend the rules... when's the last time you heard of someone getting in trouble for misuse of campaign funds? If you remember one at all, i'd wager it was George Santos, and it took a huge amount of misuse there for people to start paying attention.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Show real people who have been helped by Biden's policies in the commercials.
People don't trust institutions anymore. They don't trust authority anymore. But put a real person in front of them and there's a chance a plurality won't call them paid actors and will understand that things are getting better.
What a disaster. I can’t remember the last time I saw a decent presidential debate, they all devolve into completely failing to answer the questions and just attacking the opponent. The only thing this new format did was prevent them from constantly talking over the opponent when their time was up.
What the hell happened to Biden? I mean, he’s old…but normally his speaking is far, far better despite his stutter. He could hardly get coherent rebuttals out half the time and had a hard time enunciating his policy goals.
Trump…nothing but a torrent of lies, [insert group] loves me, and “hurr durr you’re stupid, Biden.” But he was able to spew his word salad clearly.
They should have had fact-checkers, but the problem is that trump told so many lies so fast that 75% of the debate would have been the moderators having to correct trump’s bs.
This was embarrassing, to put it mildly. Terrifying to see trump look better than Biden - if you ignore what was actually said.
Legitimately planning how I'm going to weather a Trump presidency after the debate. Unimaginably disheartening.
You could call your congressional representatives asking that they encourage Biden to step aside for a better candidate.
Pretty sure after tonight my congressional representative is thrilled that Biden is the one running.
Same *from Missouri.
You have a state democratic party and contacts for the national democrat campaigns assigned to your state. Contact them.
Sorry to hear that. Maybe they'd have a recommendation on where Biden can actually get those performance enhancing drugs they said he'd be on.
You have a state democratic party and contacts for the national democrat campaigns assigned to your state. Contact them.
Likewise. My representative is a maga chud because the party cut off funds to her progressive opponent.
This would be as effective as asking their GOP representative to stop being a dick.
Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Sport III 5.56 NATO w/ bump stock
/liberalgunowners is on Reddit.
There will be other elections. And more debates including the VP one. Maybe we will get lucky and one of them will die.
that was the worst fucking thing i've seen on tv in my life. holy shit that was depressing. yet it feels incredibly vindicating seeing every single media outlet openly say 'that was a disaster, he should probably be out'. that was an absolute failure. rescheduling the debate would look better than that shit.
Suburbanite eggs? I hate that elitest shit! Also, didn't Mark Russell die last year?
I think he died before we beat Medicare.
I'm not sure what that means. I believe he died last summer.
the take away from social media is fascinating, especially on the lemmyverse: the pejorative stores about biden's performance are everywhere online and tv, but heavily downvoted on .world while the rest of the lemmyverse is much more closely matched with everything else in the world.
So it should be easy to source a couple of them saying that, right?
you're quibbling about sources after that?
i mean ok:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/biden-debate-performance-democrats-panic-rcna157279
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4745090-biden-debate-disaster-democrats-concerned/
https://www.vox.com/2024-elections/357739/biden-trump-debate-democrats-replace-nominee-whitmer-moore-newsom
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/06/27/democratic-party-react-biden-debate-performance/74240984007/
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/disaster-bidens-shaky-start-debate-with-trump-rattles-democrats-2024-06-28/
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/biden-trump-first-presidential-debate-2024-election/card/former-candidate-andrew-yang-says-swapjoeout-KoNsrZJE14e71PGwrN0u
The debate wasn’t that bad and none of those articles contained the quote you used.
It's very important not to practice self-deception in these kind of things
Why would democrats start now? They're acting exactly like they did with Clinton and are expecting different results.
It was painful to watch. You go in wanting to watch Biden look strong and smart, and he came out looking sort of senile and slow. Trump might have told all lies but he still looked and sounded sharper than Biden and that is what people will use to make a decision.
💯
I think you may have been watching the wrong debate
There was a 12 point swing towards Trump in the before and after CNN flash poll. That's bad. That's wake everyone up and reef the sails because an out of season hurricane blew up on us bad.
I have a lot of trouble considering anything from polls/surveys being accurate, considering in my 30 years, I’ve never been asked for my input on one.
Who are they asking? (No way it’s a curated group who’s likely to answer in a specific way to create drama in the media right?)
It's actually not a curated group, as long as you're looking at reliable polls. In about a week a bunch of universities will release new head to head preference polling based on large diverse groups. Meanwhile we have to make do with push polls and media polls.
People who aren't the VBNMW crowd saw the writing on the wall for Biden. This debate only helped Trump even tho Trump literally didn't answer anything. That is Trump's style all insults or jokes and no substance. Not sure what happens here it is way too late to switch to anyone else. We're cooked.
I literally counted every one of Convicted Felon and Sex Offender Treason Trump's lies and the total was over 200.
As for Biden, I am deeply hoping that behind the scenes other Dem politicians are furiously trying to convince Biden to drop out and be replaced with Gavin Newsom. The party rules are that Biden would need to agree to formally release his delegates. But since Biden has maintained all along that he only ran to keep Treason Trump out of office, I think it would be possible to persuade Biden to drop out. Leave Harris as VP because she would need to have buy in as well. The convention is not till August so it doesn't have to happen tomorrow but it does need to happen before the convention so they need to start working on it right now.
I watched about 30 minutes, gotta say Trump was all over the map and not answering questions. Biden was raspy and stuttered, like he does , but he actually answered the questions. Trumps answer about what he would do about the fentanyl crisis was 'I bought a dog'
He missed a slam dunk when he pivoted from abortion to immigration, there was no logical reason to do that. Let alone some of his other statements. We need an open convention, if Trump is as big of a threat to democracy as Dems (accurately) claim then it is far past time that they start acting like it.
The Republican strategy has been to focus on immigration as the root of all economic evil. And since Biden's economic gains have been heavily overstated, he's forced right back into the old "We have to force foreigners out in order to keep our wealth in" fascist politics.
Idk who this "We" is supposed to be. Are you speaking as a well-positioned party superdelegate, member of the DNC leadership committee, or mega-donor? Or are you some internet armchair asshole watching this trainwreck from the nosebleed seats?
Oh, I'm neither. I'm someone who is going to be forced to deal with the consequences of this shitshow however it plays out. Since I, through no choice of my own, have skin in this game, I'm as entitled to my opinion as you are. Biden should step aside, and it is the morally correct move to do so.
Biden isn't forced to do anything. He wasn't forced to adopt Trump's immigration policies, and he sure as shit wasn't forced to pivot from the strongest issue the Dems have to one of the weakest.
Biden's economic gains have been heavily understated.
Yep, that was so much worse than I ever imagined it was going to be.
I expected nothing and I was still disappointed.
Guess we didn't learn the RGB lesson? Oh well, repeating our mistakes it is!
Well get ‘em next time. Oh wait…
Ruth Gader Binsburg
Haha good catch. Too many LEDs for me apparently!
The only realistic person who would replace Biden is Kamala Harris, and I don't think people would vote for her.
She's not Trump. People would vote for her.
Those of us who pay attention and give a shit would vote for her, but Biden (or what’s left of him) already has our votes whether we like it or not.
But for the people who are disconnected or ignorant enough that they aren’t already itching to vote against Trump? They can be influenced by the dumbest things.
Hillary isn't Trump. And people still hated her, more than they disliked Trump. And now, the DNC and the Biden campaign has the onerous and extremely difficult, if not impossible task of making people hate Trump more than they dislike Biden.
Hillary won the popular vote.
Let's see now, should I vote for Demoracy (D) or several decades of Fascism (R) and decadence and depravity? Such an extremely difficult choice. /s
Treason Trump is the most hated politican in America dude. And I don't dislike Biden at all. He's been a decent and very effective president. But I would like to have a stronger candidate and see Biden release his delegates and be replaced with Gavin Newsom.
That happened before Trump's first term, and Biden beat Trump before 1/6. Take all that into context.
This seems to be the only criteria anyone can evaluate. But if that's the case, why bother removing Biden? Let the man drool his way into a second term. Its all the same, so long as he isn't Trump.
Nope. We need Gavin Newsome. If Biden released his delegates they would not be bound to Harris they could vote for anybody. But it would be helpful to have her buy in and I think she should be kept on the ticket as VP.
Still better than the Traitorapist.
OMG Awesome label! I am so stealing that from you!
Please spread it far and wide
Oh come on, you're not even trying now, lol
No doubt it's easy pickins...
They did this to themselves. Total strategy failure, holding this debate so early in the race. Also trusting CNN's moderator to follow all the rules and fact check both candidates live.
Why do liberals fail at strategy? I suspect it's due to their tendency to spend more time thinking about how to go about things than on what things they should go about. Valuing the means at the expense of the ends, yet again.
In this instance, the moderators specifically refused to be fact checkers and declared that fact checking would be left to the candidates. It was a bit of a missed opportunity that Biden didn't refute more of Trump's falsehoods.
You're not wrong, but the mics being turned off worked against Biden. Because his mic was cut off during the debate, Trump had free reign to spew falsehoods like a damn fire hose, and Biden had no time to even go, "Will you shut up, man?"
Wow, you're smart! You should be president! You can fix everything right?
This sarcasm doesn't help. But to answer your obviously facetious question, no, I can't fix everything. But what I can do, is consider that perhaps pursuing justice rather than manners might actually be "going high". And if Republicans are going to break rules, I'm certainly within my rights to bend them. We can all agree that "The ends justify the means" is a shitty moral philosophy, but you liberals tend to overcorrect to the point where thinking about the ends at all is -in some vaguely reflexive kinda way- innately immoral.
And I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but even I know there is a moral imperative to disobey the rules when following will not lead to justice.
I can also call a fascist, a fascist. Instead of simply requesting that the rules be followed, and trusting that fascist ideas will be voted against, we should do to fascists, everything that they would do and have already done to us.
He seems like he's doing a-ok today. Wtf???where was this guy last night?? https://youtu.be/eWylhLOPk8c?si=E5uZIHS15XQ_TKma
Jesus effing Christ, if this huge difference in energy was down just to some misfortunate cold at the time of the debate, it would be one of the most unfortunate timings. I don't know if Trump would agree to a second debate now that he's reaped some positives (or more like negatives for Biden), and also on another network that does any fact-checking. So sadly this failed debate might turn to be a pivotal point for the election.
They forgot to give him his stims last night /s
Sounds good. I will enthusiastically vote for Biden. Let's go.
Can you spread that enthusiasm to 82 million more people?
Yes.
This whole night was so many layers of exhausting, but probably not for the reasons you think... No rational, serious person was expecting Biden to Willy Wonka front somersault into this debate? it was going to be what this was, the only true surprise was probably the volume of his voice (which they chalk up to a cold, okay fine, I guess) and actually how well he did quickly processing and responding to trump's gish gallop and unchecked stream of consciousness mistruth firehose with little help from the impotent moderators for the majority of the night.
The people in this country, in their immediate reaction to this debate, demonstrate that they just fundamentally lack the focus, empathv and frankly basic intelligence to process the substance of this or any debate. On average, we respond solely to voice pitch, tonality, body language and facial expressions, like a still developing toddler... Or a dog.
And so knowing that, the DNC should have put somebody up who appeals to those... dogs.
Like, obviously the smart decision is to vote for Biden anyway, but fuck me if they aren't making this November win, what should be a slam dunk against a fascist, the most difficult in recent history.
If Trump wins, the DNC owes us blood.
Or a gorilla, but I think a gorilla is too much credit.
Shoulda given him the juice!
The gaslighting ran out of gas
There’s a rumor that they are going to replace Biden with Jimmy Carter, so he can get a second term. I joke.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
ATLANTA — President Joe Biden was supposed to put the nation’s mind at ease over his physical and mental capacity with his debate showing Thursday night.
In one of the most notable moments, Biden ended a rambling statement that lacked focus by saying, “We finally beat Medicare,” before moderators cut him off and transitioned back to Trump.
Nearly an hour into the debate, a Biden aide and others familiar with his situation offered up an explanation for the president’s hoarseness: He has a cold.
Even the Biden campaign acknowledged that the debate would be a critical moment in the election, with officials hoping it could shake up the race to the president’s benefit.
The public concerns are exacerbated by deceptively edited videos, some of which have gone viral, that cut off relevant portions of an event, making it appear as if Biden is wandering or confused.
A Biden aide said that it was “not an ideal start” for the president at the beginning of the debate, but that there was “no mass panic” at the campaign headquarters in Delaware.
The original article contains 675 words, the summary contains 178 words. Saved 74%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
I dont get why people attack Biden for having a stutter. He stutters. We know. He always did, its why he does these breaks when speaking. Everything else is warranted though. He is way too old and slow. Still much better than the other old and slow dude.
Bruh he sounded ancient. I actually found it challenging to follow what he was saying.
he wasn't so bad in 2020. he just aged a lot
The conspiracy theorists all say Joe is supposed to step down and Gavin Newsom somehow is added to the ticket which then will win. These conspiracy theorists also say that candidates are selected in advance by the powers that be and it’s all pagentry to deceive the gullible masses. Try to look surprised when he gets replaced and they add Gavin.
I heard quite a few people earlier in the year stating that the plan was for Joe to bow out last minute due to health issue, and announce that Michelle Obama would be the candidate. I know it's probably not likely, but it's an exciting thought. Someone like Newsom would be another decent option
That would be way too risky, and I like Obama and Biden wasn't even my first choice!
Sanders, on the other hand...
I didn't say it wasn't risky. I'm saying what I heard. But, I also don't think it's that risky.
She would be a much better debater and candidate, and it would likely erase much of the voter apathy with the huge 40 and under group. Especially with abortion and womans rights on the table.
And I'm a huge Bernie supporter, but we've seen several times now that the DNC isn't going to give him a chance. So who else you got cause Bernie's chance died in 2016
The thing is, is (Michelle) Obama even interested in politics? I'll admit I'm quite ignorant of her career in politics other than having been the First Lady.
I'd vote for her over Biden or Trump any day, though.
I got nobody else besides her and Sanders. Maybe Schumer? AOC 😂?
Without reading this- I’m going to say…… no, it didn’t.
Doesn't Biden have a cold?
Immune systems of 80 year old men are notoriously not great.
I find it ironic when the Left says "I don't care if Biden is senile and incoherent, I'll still vote for him!" no one cares... But, when the Right says "I don't care that Trump is being charged with all these different things, I'll still vote for him!" they're idiots... funny how that works on Lemmy and Reddit...
Because one of these wants to destroy democracy and the right of many people to even exist.
But tell me again how the tangerine terror isn't going to corrupt everything....
How did Trump destroy democracy when he was president? How horrible was your life? What freedoms did you lose when Trump was President? Again, scare tactics from the Left that we've been hearing for years now... I'm old enough to remember when they said the same shit about Bush Jr...
"said the same shit about Bush Jr..."
And would you trust a government run by a bush, a dick, and a colon?
There is not a big overlap between what skills a candidate needs and what skills a president needs. 99% of the job of president is to make decisions. That's the job. Even if he lost his voice entirely and was in a wheel chair like FDR, he could still make excellent decisions. President Biden absolutely killed it for 2 hours at the state of the union speech. Nobody who was "senile" could have done that.
Have you not been paying attention to current events? The country is at a critical junction between democracy and neofascism. OF COURSE I'm going to vote for the continuation of democracy. Anybody who does not would be an idiot. I would vote for a literal corpse over Convicted Criminal and Sex Offender Treason Trump.
Neofascism an overrated word thrown around by the Left. That's like me saying that the Democrats are going to turn our country into socialism, when we know that's not true. We heard all these things before, how horrible the country would be if Trump got elected, the "end of democracy"...and yet, under Trump none of those things happened. Both sides use scare tactics, the Democrats are no better.
NO NO NO NO NO!!!
Dude both Democrats and Republicans still loyal to America are scared to death that Traitorapest Trump is going be the end of democracy.
WHY WOULD LYNNE CHENEY THROW HER CAREER AWAY IF SHE DIDN'T REALIZE TRUMP IS TRYING TO OVERTHROW DEMOCRACY??
WHY WOULD ADAM KINZINGER THROW HIS CAREER AWAY IF HE DIDN'T REALIZE TRUMP IS TRYING TO OVERTHROW DEMOCRACY??
Why did Trump's Vice President, Sec of State, 2 Attorneys General, National Security Adviser -- ALL REPUBLICANS -- warn us that Trump is a threat to democracy.
Trump ordered an attack against America on Jan 6, 2001. The previous 2 months he spent every single day trying to figure out a way to overturn the election and disenfranchise millions of Americans. ONLY A POWER MAD NEOFASCIST WOULD DO THAT. There is overwhelming evidence that Trump knew he lost on election night and Steve Bannon admitted on audio tape before the election that Trump was going to lie "and say they stole it".
Every time Loser Trump loses an election or a court case he slanders our country and attacks our core values of democracy and the rule of law.
He admitted he would be a dictator "on day one".
He promised to abuse the justice system to go after political enemies.
He threatened to "pull the license" of news media that criticize him.
He tried to blackmail Ukraine to interfere in our elections.
He cooperated fully with Putin to interfere in our elections.
Because there is no evidence for that whatsoever. With Treason Trump we have overwhelming evidence of his complete contempt for our longstanding core values of democracy and the rule of law.
Trump's action's between election day and Jan 6 ABSOLUTELY DISQUALIFY HIM from holding office. All Republicans who still support Treason Trump ARE SUPPORTING THE END OF DEMOCRACY.
TRUMP KNOWS THAT IF DOESN'T OVERTHROW DEMOCRACY THEN HE IS GOING TO PRISON.
The system leaves us with a binary choice. Even the third "option" of inaction is essentially leaving it up to fate at best, and at worst is just handing the controls over.
The room you're in is sealed, filling with water, and you can access a snorkel or a fire hydrant.
One of these things is not like the other...
If you are upset with Bidens chances, Bidens genocidal foreign policy, bidens too little too late climate policy or bidens xenophobic foreign policy:
Consider voting for a third party that actually has a platform and politics that aligns with your own.
Now that it’s clear the democrats won’t win. Now that it’s clear the only people throwing their votes away are the ones who carefully, tactically, thoughtfully attach their support to the democrats. Now that it’s clear a new American political formation has to emerge.
Take this opportunity to record your needs in the only way that cannot be ignored, glossed over, deepfaked or otherwise denied.
Voting won’t be enough, but it’s the start to a new alignment within the power structure we have. Be kind and understanding towards your neighbors.
Classic bloodfart.
If you got a messed up Linux I’ll help you with it.