So, what Israel is admitting here, is that they could individually pinpoint and target Hamas but instead carpet bombed Palestine into genocide.
supply chain attacks are dirty tactics too, they have no idea who is holding 3000 pagers when detonation.
For smartphones they actually could, they could tie the lipo pack serial number to the imei and work everything out from there.
Then make sure it's been unlocked via biometrics within a second or so.
It's very rare that someone else holds a phone to be unlocked for you, though it does happen, still the closest to a targeted kill.
You would have to guarantee those phones would eventually end up in the right person's hands.
Otherwise if you sabotage 100 phones and only 30 go to your targets, even if you only detonate those 30 there are now 70 phones out there randomly floating around with enough explosives to kill some random person.
Yeah, and this is assuming that even the ones with your target isn't hidden in a box under his kid's bed when it goes off.
I use a code to unlock. Biometrics can be unlocked while unconscious or restrained. Fuck that.
They were using pagers and walkie talkies to evade the cellphone tracking that the Israelis were already doing.
They wouldn’t have taken the cell phones.
But this only works if you know the identity of every member of the organization, which is impossible, again making this a terror campaign and not a targeted attack. And you have to detonate them all at once or people will throw away the devices. You can't wait for the 100,00 people who belong to the organization to have just unlocked their devices all at once.
Wtf? You're killing everybody, you're killing the most influential leaders you know about.
This was stupid, and will make Israel's life harder but Bibi is too narcissistic to accept that.
This is also Mossad trying to wipe off O7 attacks by showering in blood, which is just stupid.
Nothing about this makes sense as an adult.
I'm not sire what you're replying to. My comment was that using smart phones wouldn't be effective in the way you mentioned. Relying on people 100,000 people that belong to Hezbollah to unlock their phones all at the same time to verify that's who is holding the device. There is no possible way to make an attack like this targeted. It would always result in a large percentage of innocent casualties no matter what you do. The only use for it is a terrorist attack, which is what this was.
No, but you can mark which pager numbers are in combatant possession and which ones are with civvies.
They literally knew about the attack before it happened. Genocide was always the primary goal.
Israel is obviously behind the attacks but has not taken responsibility for them yet. So no, they're not admitting anything.
They are openly showing that they can do whatever they want.
All the rest is gaslighting so that you'd not be completely sure that that's what they are saying, thus not so confident in yourself. Another kind of attacking other's morale.
They are openly showing that they can do whatever they want.
Yes. And what zionists want to do is terrorism, genocide, etc.
Oh, not just the zionists.. that entire zone is rife with religious violence.
The real problem is religion 🤷
Is it? There are plenty of Jews and plenty of Muslims who are not involved in this and see it as wrong. Plus, that's such a broad statement as to be meaningless. We could equally say government is the problem, but there aren't many advocating for anarchy. Or people are the problem. I'd be more inclined to say tribalism is the problem, the very foundation of an "us" vs. "them" mentality. Sometimes assholes pick a fight and call it religious. There's a strong case to be made that war has become much more brutal and far reaching since the Napoleonic wars and the rise of the nation-state. I mean, we can blame religion ... that certainly erases the need to look within ourselves and ask why humans do this to each other.
It's a bit like pretending Nazism was a German problem and pretending like the same dark forces don't exist now and in many people everywhere.
There are definitely some religious dickheads, but there are dickheads of all stripes.
If religion is so vile, how do we hold in tension the fact that religious people are often behind the most charity towards the marginalised and disempowered? Atheists talk a good game, but rarely leave their armchairs to do anything positive. Religion can become a tribal marker, but it also is one of the main forces working against tribalism.
This is the key thing here. People can whine about this attack, but this was targeted and it worked with low collateral damage, which also makes it legal (as in not a war crime).
The problem is everything else that Israel is doing since Oct 7, causing 1/3 of the Palestinian casualties to be children.
The very nature of a supply chain sabotage like this is indiscriminate.
Customary international humanitarian lawprohibits the use of booby traps – objects that civilians are likely to be attracted to or are associated with normal civilian daily use – precisely to avoid putting civilians at grave risk and produce the devastating scenes that continue to unfold across Lebanon today. The use of an explosive device whose exact location could not be reliably known would be unlawfully indiscriminate, using a means of attack that could not be directed at a specific military target and as a result would strike military targets and civilians without distinction.
It's low collateral damage the same way a suicide bomber is. So, I guess, your IDF-brained take is suicide bombers are low casualty and precise.
It's a low collateral attack when you see civilians as enemies and want literally all of them dead.
If this was the other way around, we'd have global outrage, days of mourning and piles of new weapons for Israel right now. We'd be speaking about one of the worst terrorist attacks in history.
Bingo.
This was a stupid decision by Israel. They have given the green light to mass attacks through consumer products. Can they really afford to protect all their imported products (electronics, food, water, etc) from every type of attack?
They don't have to, the supply chain is friendlier to them than to Lebanese.
The supply chain goes from the source to the consumer. It doesn't have to be and elaborate and expensive operation to have an effect. Several unrelated individuals poke 1 or 2 tiny holes into some fruits and vegetables during their weekly grocery shopping. Once people start to notice there will be panic about food security. Most people won't care but enough will that it will cost grocery stores money in unsellable products and increased vigilance. Prices go up.
If you can't trust your fellow human to not sneeze at the buffet table, how are you going to trust your neighbour/worker who lost x relatives to not tamper with your ice cream in the unlocked fridge at the store.
Drones randomly dropping anthrax are simpler.
Where would they get the anthrax and a drone capable of spreading it without hurting the user. My example cost nothing, anyone can do it and the it's almost impossible to get caught.
Actually incredibly easy to catch someone doing it in a first world country.
Mass surveillence is already here. By the third case of such death the police would already be pulling CCTV tapes.
Someone has a pin or thumb tack held between there fingers. They touch 10 green apples but only pierce 3. How are you going to determine this person did that from the hundreds of customers who were at that spot during one day? How many hours of videos are being kept? How many cameras do you need? How much will this cost? What if this was done at the farm? Or truck or distribution center?
There is no intelligence behind genocide.
Five years ago, if you had asked me if Israel would be committing terrorist attacks across Palestine, Lebanon and beyond, I would have said absolutely not.
I would have been wrong, even back then, but jesus fucking christ, what an absolute shambles.
How my government supports this state-sponsored terrorism is beyond me.
Zios have been using terrorism for 75+ years with full imperial support.
Hezbollah are enemy combatants. These were ordered by and for Hezbollah. Israel isn't targeting non-combatants.
They verified that all of the devices were in the possession of Hezbollah before they detonated them?
Is what why their pager terrorism killed a child and caused 2000+ injuries, including dismemberment of other children?
Now they just repeated it, I'm sure with the same disregard for living people they have already shown.
What do you think about Hezbollah reopening the hostilities back in October? Do you believe they could have prevented all this bloodshed if they just kept the border in peace?
What do you think about Israel never ceasing hostilities?
For real, read a book every once in awhile.
But Israel did cease hostilities, right untill Hezbollah started them again...
No they didn't. They very specifically never stopped actions in countries they aren't at war with and notably as the article states THEY WERE PLANTING BOMBS IN CIVILIAN ITEMS again in countries they aren't at war with.
These bomb-planting shenanigans only began after Hezbollah restarted the hostilities
Also, why do you consider devices used for military communications as civilian items (in all caps no less)
This is the second round of bombings with seemingly benign objects.
They are quite literally bought OTC they are in fact civilian objects, that's why terrorists use them....
Seriously, a book.. once.
These weren't bought 'over the counter', these were bought en masse from the producer and specifically meant for military use
You're fucking dumb there's thirty on eBay and more on Amazon, it's literally an OTC open band civilian tx/tx device. It's even in their fucking wiki and they released a press release about it. Jfc, just use Google dude.
What's next you think they were targeting people with "military grade beepers?"
Legit a book, once ever.
Ed: they weren't purchased by the manufacturer, icon even has to come out prior to the bobbing and say they believe there were counterfeit ones or there and it turns out the isrealis made them.
You seem very, very focused on this 'read a book' thing. Feel free to elaborate how you think that relates
OT: they were pagers meant for military use. It seems that the devices that exploded were exclusively in the possession of people working for Hezbollah. Implying that the Mossad put bombs in devices that innocent people could buy on eBay or Amazon is a complete fabrication or, at best, completely delusional
It's whataboutism to say someone shouldn't have started the fight in the first place?
The "fight" started with the colonization of Palestine, the theft of indigenous land, and the expulsion of half the native populace. Naming a random date or event in the past couple of years as the "start" of this conflict is brazenly dishonest.
Every year, Israel expands its land seizures in occupied Palestine, but for some reason you don't count that as sustaining hostilities. Sounds an awful lot like you're willing to excuse Israeli terrorism while holding others to a different standard.
Would you say that because of your personal understanding of the history, you'd consider any act of Hezbollah against Israel as justified, and any act of Israel to stop them as unjustified?
No, I condemn all attacks against civilians. Hard to imagine, I'm sure, for someone who sees only one belligerent's citizens as human.
But I am pointing out the ludicrous misrepresentation of history that Hezbollah "started" any aspect of this conflict. Hezbollah was created in response to Israel's invasion of Lebanon. Israel invaded Lebanon because the PLO was launching attacks on Israel from southern Lebanon. The PLO was in Lebanon and before that in Jordan because they were driven out of their native homeland and made refugees due to the colonization of Palestine.
There is no aspect of this conflict that does not tie directly back to the violent disappropriation and explusion of the Palestinian people from their land. The conflict is and has always been about theft of land and homes, which continues unabated through the present day.
And do you think Hezbollah restarting the hostilities after almost two decades of de facto ceasefire was helpful for the civilians? Which civilians have gained anything from it? The dead?
And do you think the colonization of Palestine, the establishment of an apartheid regime and the subsequent genocide of Palestinians was helpful?
History is just a tad bit more complicated than you seem to be aware of, but do you really think Hezbollah (and Hamas) reigniting the conflict made the world better?
Which other conflicts would you like to see reignited?
Y'all wackos always yapping about some irrelevant date and irrelevant event in order to justify colonialism, racism, apartheid, kidnapping, sexual assault, terrorism, genocide, etc.
Nobody cares about your hasbara nonsense.
Wow yeah all these 'events' and 'dates' everyone's always talking about are just all irrelevant
Ok, so in your mind, the year is 1982. Israel just invaded Southern Lebanon and is fighting the PLO. Nothing like Israel withdrawing, the entire Lebanese civil war, the '90s, the 2006 war, the events of 2023 has happened. 1982 Hezbollah received some missiles from the future and fired them at some Israelis that haven't been born yet.
It is forever 1982, and the killing will never end
Amazing fucking goalposts there. From "Well who started it??" to "Who cares who started it, that's so long ago" in literally one comment.
Fuck these nazi ass fucking zionists.
Do you think the killing is ever going to end if Hezbollah can't stop unless Israel is dissolved? Don't you think the world would be better if they stopped attacking eachother?
The killing will end when the state of Israel ends. Israel exists to commit genocide. It was committing genocide long before Hezbollah or Hamas existed. Hezbollah and Hamas exists because Israel is a fascist, genocidal state. The world will be better when it's gone.
What do you think of all the other countries that committed and commit what you call genocide? Should they all be attacked? Should the people of the world put perpetual genocides on eachother until one remains?
Peace was never part of the plan for colonial genocide. Have you ever seen the zio genocide map? They're planning on invading every neighboring state, stealing the land, and continuing with genocide.
Why steal just one state when you can steal the whole region? It's what god wants his chosen people to do. smh.
Wow that's really interesting!
Can you share some more info on Israel's plan to conquer half the Middle East? This sounds very realistic now that you've mentioned it
How many thousands of children have been slaughtered by Israeli troops?
If you want to be pedantic, and you're talking only about this specific attack, children were killed in these pager/walkie-talkie blasts too. Are they enemy combatants to you?
But if they are active duty and have military comms, it's just called an "attack", not a "terror attack", even if the attackers are otherwise terrorists.
And your evidence that Israel only targetted active duty Hezbollah combattants?
Just anyone in an airplane or bus or subway with them
Hezbollah is a political party as well as a paramilitary group. What if Canada did this to The Oath Keepers or CSPOA or The Proud Boys or another group in the US? They're all objectively bad people, buy only a few have committed terrorist attacks. Do they all and the people who happen to be around them deserve to die by a foreign government's actions?
The media condemned political violence against Trump in unison one month ago.
Israel commits one of the biggest terrorist attacks against a Lebanese political organization in history and the media claps.
My concern twofold
A: Without evidence I have a hard time seeing planting bombs in devices was solely targeted at fighters. Odds are an entire shipment was targeted and many people who weren't Hezbollah received bombs
B: Blowing up devices that were by definition carried everywhere certainly killed families and associates who didn't deserve to die.
During the Iraqi war we considered Iraqi leadership targets and I wouldn't have been surprised if they considered our leadership targets as well. If they had in fact only killed Hezbollah I would have no problem with the attack.
In Iraq every Iraqi civilian was considered a valid target.
The definition of "enemy combatant" was "anyone within the blast radius of a US strike". I kid you not.
They were probably mostly in the hands of Hezbollah members, if not fighters. This is probably why they went off in hospitals as well. Lots of medics who volunteer who's normal job is being a doctor in a Beirut hospital. Lots of logistics and people hiding weapons in the back of buildings for them.
They're not full time militants if I understand correctly. Most of these people will have civilian lives and jobs to go to.
Certainly some innocent family members died. There's no such thing as a completely surgical strike. It is better than what they've been doing in Gaza though, by several orders of magnitude. I don't think anybody can defend what's been going on there with a straight face.
Maybe so but commit a little genocide here and there and suddenly nobody wants to give you the benefit of the doubt.
And they whined about a fucking bus exploding.
About some pipe rockets killing a random bloke or two.
And this
against a Lebanese political organization
appears to be wrong since their attack wasn't at all this targeted. It's a mass terror campaign against whole Lebanese population in order to saturate its attention and reduce morale before an invasion.
We all got complacent relying on big nations with big militaries for punishing such behavior, and they are all in bed with the criminal.
Despite this not being Hezbollah's best moment, I think they and similar guerrillas are the exact kind of people we should learn from for solutions to Israel and the rest of the problem.
Lotta Hezbollah flags in that crowd, was that some kind of funeral procession from yesterday’s pagers?
Yes, a funeral procession for 4 members.
Exponential funeral growth.
If your state was under attack by genocidal terrorists, wouldn't you support the resistance?
This is a super-villain plan becoming a reality.
If this carries on, we'll have exploding semaphore flags by the end of the week.
Don't mess with Americas boats
Shit, we use the same radios at work. Hope no-one blew up.
I saw this on Reddit first while I was checking my city subreddit, damn the headline there definitely gives a different impression.
(The comments are all mostly jokes, didn't even bother wading through them and came to see
If Lemmy had a thread instead).
R/worldnews? It's completely run by zionists. Anything critical or Israel or pro Palestinian gets instantly nuked
At this point, r/worldnews comments are so thoroughly astroturfed by so many global powers, their only use is to get an idea of what various propaganda machines think.
Someone tell them the Palm Pilots aren't safe either
Samsung Galaxy note 7
Might have to break out my Newton as a precautionary measure.
Whatever you do, don’t use the stylus! /s
So if I understand correctly, Israel managed to get a bunch of people in Hezbollah to use pagers and walkie talkies that contained bombs. But they have not been able to gather enough intelligence from control of those communication devices to find and rescue the remaining hostages? And if they weren’t able to catch useful information from those devices, why did the people holding those devices deserve to get blown up?
Hezbollah operates out of Lebanon, and the hostages are in Gaza? They have nothing to do with each other…
Thanks. I honestly haven’t been following it all closely. (I guess that’s obvious from my last comment). But why blow up a bunch of people in Lebanon?
Because tensions between Hezbollah and Israel have been steadily rising since October 7th because of Hzebollah's objection to how Israel is acting in Gaza. To be clear, prior to October 7th, tensions were already high enough that they would regularly lob bombs at each other. Today's "escalated" tensions include northern Israel being evacuated due to threats from Hezbolla's rocket attacks.
At this point, it is clear that the options available to Israel are to either withdraw from Gaza and hope Hezbolla stands down, or end up in a full war with Hezbolla. Historians will say that the war with Hezbolla started months ago, and this was just one attack among many.
You are forgetting one simple fact. They don’t care about the hostages.
The hostages are in Gaza, not Lebanon. If Israel had this level of infiltration with Hamas, it is unlikely this would've started in the first place
If only the nazis had infiltrated the warsaw ghetto... \s \s \s
So if I understand correctly, Israel managed to get a bunch of people in Hezbollah to use pagers and walkie talkies that contained bombs.
Think about it like, there's one person who was able to tell the perpetrators of this that a big order of communication devices is being made.
Perpetrators are clearly sophisticated so it's fair to assume they can throw some skilled team at it.
This attack could be years in the making.
From a spy craft and capabilities standpoint it’s an amazing attack. I’m skeptical that using the devices as bombs is more useful than using them for spying, but who knows? It is super fucked up that random people who happen to be near the targets could be hurt. But between that and the stuxnet attack, it’s safe to say that Israel is capable of crazy sophisticated attacks.
Except they barely knew what they were doing with stuxnet too.
I heard 5 months, forgot where from.
Booby-trapped walkie-talkies and pagers.
This reminds me of when during sieges during the Middle Ages they used to lob the bodies of the dead back inside the castle. I'm not sure if it's because of the lines they've crossed over and ignored regarding civilian casualties on this, or that this will essentially cause other parties to cross those same lines. This is giving ideas to China and Russia, and humanity has been far shittier in the past, I really don't want to see how bad we will regress to.
Ok, guys, after the pager thing, I am pretty sure walkie talkies are next. Like that's really An obvious one.
I don't have any ideas on what next. Landline phones probably.
Cups with strings
Owch that couch Pic.
::: spoiler Axios - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for Axios:
These guys were still carrying these pagers to the funeral of the last group getting killed by their pagers? 200 IQ move.
It was walkie-talkies today.
Fair enough
Still, wouldn't you at least check your devices after yesterday?
check your devices
Go ahead. Open your iPhone. Some things don't present as being safe to open without damaging the unit, so no one's going to pop it open for lulz.
I mean, I certainly wouldn't assume it was more than just the one thing yesterday, if you did, why didn't you warn anyone? But now that it has been 2 things, you can certainly bet every other device is checked or chucked for a while. Fool me twice...
Surely the almighty god they pray to five times a day wouldn't let something like that happen a second time, would he
Since you've obviously forgotten, they share the same God and origin story as the Hebrews and Christians, and He's known for working in mysterious ways, so who knows which side He's taking on any one day?
Terrorists killing terrorists... Nice. Seriously... what is next? Exploding toilet seats with verses from quran, issued last ramadan only to elite hezbollah members?
Terrorists killing terrorists
These are the terrorists killing anyone standing around people the terrorists don't like. During a funeral.
Ok, on the one hand, yes, blowing up Hamas is funny.
OTOH, this is not cool, bombing random people is a problem.
The US has this wonderful system called the Hellfire R-9X which is basically a flying slap-chop that ginzus a single target with 9 pop-out blades. Can we hand a couple over to the IDF and Mossad so they stop randomly blowing up parts of Lebanon?
It's not killing Hamas that's the issue, it's the collateral.
This is Hezbollah, not Hamas.
How about we stop giving the genocidal government weapons and ammo all together
There you. You can’t stop people from fighting, but we certainly can stop helping them kill each other.
And look, I get it’s a hot button issue for a lot of people. I’m not suggesting anyone is wrong for whatever side they choose. It’s too complex of an issue for my pea-brain to fully understand. What I do understand is that the US and other countries need to be working toward helping both sides find a reasonable and peaceful solution — whatever that may be (I’ll leave that to the smarter people to figure out).
They're two religious sides going at it for a 100 years, each wanting the same piece of territory. There is no solution
Blowing anybody up is NEVER funny. And it never will be.
One exception.
I can think of a couple. P diddy is coming to mind today... allegedly.
There's still gonna be some collateral damage with those, that can't be employed at scale as readily -- you'd have to concurrently target huge numbers of people from airborne platforms, and these are pretty small charges. Given that Hezbollah isn't fighting in the open -- understandably -- this is probably about as good as it realistically gets in terms of collateral damage.
Israel could maybe use DIME charges to have a smaller difference between lethal radius and damaging radius, but that's got its own unpleasant aspects.
Dense inert metal explosive (DIME) is an experimental type of explosive that has a relatively small but effective blast radius. It is manufactured by producing a homogeneous mixture of an explosive material (such as phlegmatized HMX or RDX) and small particles of a chemically inert material such as tungsten. It is intended to limit the effective distance of the explosion, to avoid collateral damage in warfare.
Upon detonation of the explosive, the casing disintegrates into extremely small particles, as opposed to larger pieces of shrapnel which results from the fragmentation of a metal shell casing. The HMTA powder acts like micro-shrapnel which is very lethal at close range (about 4 m or 13 ft), but loses momentum very quickly due to air resistance, coming to a halt within approximately 40 times the diameter of the charge. This increases the probability of killing people within a few meters of the explosion while reducing the probability of causing death and injuries or damage farther away. Survivors close to the lethal zone may still have their limbs amputated by the HMTA microshrapnel, which can slice through soft tissue and bone.
If Israel isn't using those already, I guess we could send 'em some, if we have some sitting around. Realistically, though, I doubt that collateral damage is gonna be possible to reduce a whole lot, given the fact that Hezbollah's hiding in a civilian population.
that can’t be employed at scale as readily
Well there's your problem right there:
You're concerned we can't scale up arbitrary killings? Would you prefer something on a larger, more industrial scale, perhaps with large, gas-fueled ovens?
Killing should be hard, and it should be personal, not vaguely waving a hand in a general direction. You should know their name and hopefully have filled out a few forms beforehand.
If you want to kill somebody, when you aren't at war with their entire country, then BE SPECIFIC.
Drone strikes that take out a known Al-Queda leader: âś…
Drone strike that takes out a random Afghan wedding: ❌
There are a large number of people in Hezbollah. Israel is fighting them.
In order to launch those concurrently against, I dunno, sounds like there are maybe hundreds or thousands of targets, you're going to need to have hundreds or thousands of drones. You're gonna need something like a TB-2 at least to be lobbing them, not a tiny little drone. You're talking about a lot of medium-size UAVs. That's where your scale limitation is gonna come from.
Those things are fine if you're trying to kill one person. But Israel's fighting a number of people, even if it can identify them. They aren't gonna have thousands of drones above Lebanon.
And if they're hitting buildings and such, then you're gonna be collapsing buildings and stuff like that.
Secondly, I assume that the Lebanese government is not going to give Israel free reign to do drone strikes on Hezbollah on Lebanese territory, will shoot at those drones, so to use those, you'd need to destroy any air defense that Lebanon has. My guess is that Israel's looking to just fight Hezbollah as much as possible.
Tl;Dr you're declaring war on Lebanon.
Then just admit it, this bs dance is childish.
You're either at war with them or the Lebanese are innocent bystanders where you have to minimize collateral damage, can't have it both ways.
Someone should check if Walter White is in Lebanon
So, what Israel is admitting here, is that they could individually pinpoint and target Hamas but instead carpet bombed Palestine into genocide.
supply chain attacks are dirty tactics too, they have no idea who is holding 3000 pagers when detonation.
For smartphones they actually could, they could tie the lipo pack serial number to the imei and work everything out from there.
Then make sure it's been unlocked via biometrics within a second or so.
It's very rare that someone else holds a phone to be unlocked for you, though it does happen, still the closest to a targeted kill.
You would have to guarantee those phones would eventually end up in the right person's hands.
Otherwise if you sabotage 100 phones and only 30 go to your targets, even if you only detonate those 30 there are now 70 phones out there randomly floating around with enough explosives to kill some random person.
Yeah, and this is assuming that even the ones with your target isn't hidden in a box under his kid's bed when it goes off.
I use a code to unlock. Biometrics can be unlocked while unconscious or restrained. Fuck that.
They were using pagers and walkie talkies to evade the cellphone tracking that the Israelis were already doing.
They wouldn’t have taken the cell phones.
But this only works if you know the identity of every member of the organization, which is impossible, again making this a terror campaign and not a targeted attack. And you have to detonate them all at once or people will throw away the devices. You can't wait for the 100,00 people who belong to the organization to have just unlocked their devices all at once.
Wtf? You're killing everybody, you're killing the most influential leaders you know about.
This was stupid, and will make Israel's life harder but Bibi is too narcissistic to accept that.
This is also Mossad trying to wipe off O7 attacks by showering in blood, which is just stupid.
Nothing about this makes sense as an adult.
I'm not sire what you're replying to. My comment was that using smart phones wouldn't be effective in the way you mentioned. Relying on people 100,000 people that belong to Hezbollah to unlock their phones all at the same time to verify that's who is holding the device. There is no possible way to make an attack like this targeted. It would always result in a large percentage of innocent casualties no matter what you do. The only use for it is a terrorist attack, which is what this was.
No, but you can mark which pager numbers are in combatant possession and which ones are with civvies.
They literally knew about the attack before it happened. Genocide was always the primary goal.
Israel is obviously behind the attacks but has not taken responsibility for them yet. So no, they're not admitting anything.
They are openly showing that they can do whatever they want.
All the rest is gaslighting so that you'd not be completely sure that that's what they are saying, thus not so confident in yourself. Another kind of attacking other's morale.
Yes. And what zionists want to do is terrorism, genocide, etc.
Oh, not just the zionists.. that entire zone is rife with religious violence.
The real problem is religion 🤷
Is it? There are plenty of Jews and plenty of Muslims who are not involved in this and see it as wrong. Plus, that's such a broad statement as to be meaningless. We could equally say government is the problem, but there aren't many advocating for anarchy. Or people are the problem. I'd be more inclined to say tribalism is the problem, the very foundation of an "us" vs. "them" mentality. Sometimes assholes pick a fight and call it religious. There's a strong case to be made that war has become much more brutal and far reaching since the Napoleonic wars and the rise of the nation-state. I mean, we can blame religion ... that certainly erases the need to look within ourselves and ask why humans do this to each other.
It's a bit like pretending Nazism was a German problem and pretending like the same dark forces don't exist now and in many people everywhere.
There are definitely some religious dickheads, but there are dickheads of all stripes.
If religion is so vile, how do we hold in tension the fact that religious people are often behind the most charity towards the marginalised and disempowered? Atheists talk a good game, but rarely leave their armchairs to do anything positive. Religion can become a tribal marker, but it also is one of the main forces working against tribalism.
This is the key thing here. People can whine about this attack, but this was targeted and it worked with low collateral damage, which also makes it legal (as in not a war crime).
The problem is everything else that Israel is doing since Oct 7, causing 1/3 of the Palestinian casualties to be children.
The very nature of a supply chain sabotage like this is indiscriminate.
Human Rights Watch :
It's low collateral damage the same way a suicide bomber is. So, I guess, your IDF-brained take is suicide bombers are low casualty and precise.
It's a low collateral attack when you see civilians as enemies and want literally all of them dead.
If this was the other way around, we'd have global outrage, days of mourning and piles of new weapons for Israel right now. We'd be speaking about one of the worst terrorist attacks in history.
Bingo.
This was a stupid decision by Israel. They have given the green light to mass attacks through consumer products. Can they really afford to protect all their imported products (electronics, food, water, etc) from every type of attack?
They don't have to, the supply chain is friendlier to them than to Lebanese.
The supply chain goes from the source to the consumer. It doesn't have to be and elaborate and expensive operation to have an effect. Several unrelated individuals poke 1 or 2 tiny holes into some fruits and vegetables during their weekly grocery shopping. Once people start to notice there will be panic about food security. Most people won't care but enough will that it will cost grocery stores money in unsellable products and increased vigilance. Prices go up. If you can't trust your fellow human to not sneeze at the buffet table, how are you going to trust your neighbour/worker who lost x relatives to not tamper with your ice cream in the unlocked fridge at the store.
Drones randomly dropping anthrax are simpler.
Where would they get the anthrax and a drone capable of spreading it without hurting the user. My example cost nothing, anyone can do it and the it's almost impossible to get caught.
Actually incredibly easy to catch someone doing it in a first world country.
Mass surveillence is already here. By the third case of such death the police would already be pulling CCTV tapes.
Someone has a pin or thumb tack held between there fingers. They touch 10 green apples but only pierce 3. How are you going to determine this person did that from the hundreds of customers who were at that spot during one day? How many hours of videos are being kept? How many cameras do you need? How much will this cost? What if this was done at the farm? Or truck or distribution center?
There is no intelligence behind genocide.
Five years ago, if you had asked me if Israel would be committing terrorist attacks across Palestine, Lebanon and beyond, I would have said absolutely not.
I would have been wrong, even back then, but jesus fucking christ, what an absolute shambles.
How my government supports this state-sponsored terrorism is beyond me.
Zios have been using terrorism for 75+ years with full imperial support.
Hezbollah are enemy combatants. These were ordered by and for Hezbollah. Israel isn't targeting non-combatants.
They verified that all of the devices were in the possession of Hezbollah before they detonated them?
Is what why their pager terrorism killed a child and caused 2000+ injuries, including dismemberment of other children?
Now they just repeated it, I'm sure with the same disregard for living people they have already shown.
What do you think about Hezbollah reopening the hostilities back in October? Do you believe they could have prevented all this bloodshed if they just kept the border in peace?
What do you think about Israel never ceasing hostilities?
For real, read a book every once in awhile.
But Israel did cease hostilities, right untill Hezbollah started them again...
No they didn't. They very specifically never stopped actions in countries they aren't at war with and notably as the article states THEY WERE PLANTING BOMBS IN CIVILIAN ITEMS again in countries they aren't at war with.
These bomb-planting shenanigans only began after Hezbollah restarted the hostilities
Also, why do you consider devices used for military communications as civilian items (in all caps no less)
This is the second round of bombings with seemingly benign objects.
They are quite literally bought OTC they are in fact civilian objects, that's why terrorists use them....
Seriously, a book.. once.
These weren't bought 'over the counter', these were bought en masse from the producer and specifically meant for military use
You're fucking dumb there's thirty on eBay and more on Amazon, it's literally an OTC open band civilian tx/tx device. It's even in their fucking wiki and they released a press release about it. Jfc, just use Google dude.
What's next you think they were targeting people with "military grade beepers?"
Legit a book, once ever.
Ed: they weren't purchased by the manufacturer, icon even has to come out prior to the bobbing and say they believe there were counterfeit ones or there and it turns out the isrealis made them.
You seem very, very focused on this 'read a book' thing. Feel free to elaborate how you think that relates
OT: they were pagers meant for military use. It seems that the devices that exploded were exclusively in the possession of people working for Hezbollah. Implying that the Mossad put bombs in devices that innocent people could buy on eBay or Amazon is a complete fabrication or, at best, completely delusional
Zios were murdering palestinians at record rates well before they started full genocide 1, 2.
People inside the imperial core are generally completely ignorant and brainwashed about the reality of zionist genocide.
Ah, yes. History started in '22.
You sound like you're ready to shoot every 'zio' they put in front of you, no questions asked
You seem like you forgot how terrifying Hitler was. Now your nation is repeating the same shit
Holy whataboutism Batman.
It's whataboutism to say someone shouldn't have started the fight in the first place?
The "fight" started with the colonization of Palestine, the theft of indigenous land, and the expulsion of half the native populace. Naming a random date or event in the past couple of years as the "start" of this conflict is brazenly dishonest.
Every year, Israel expands its land seizures in occupied Palestine, but for some reason you don't count that as sustaining hostilities. Sounds an awful lot like you're willing to excuse Israeli terrorism while holding others to a different standard.
Would you say that because of your personal understanding of the history, you'd consider any act of Hezbollah against Israel as justified, and any act of Israel to stop them as unjustified?
No, I condemn all attacks against civilians. Hard to imagine, I'm sure, for someone who sees only one belligerent's citizens as human.
But I am pointing out the ludicrous misrepresentation of history that Hezbollah "started" any aspect of this conflict. Hezbollah was created in response to Israel's invasion of Lebanon. Israel invaded Lebanon because the PLO was launching attacks on Israel from southern Lebanon. The PLO was in Lebanon and before that in Jordan because they were driven out of their native homeland and made refugees due to the colonization of Palestine.
There is no aspect of this conflict that does not tie directly back to the violent disappropriation and explusion of the Palestinian people from their land. The conflict is and has always been about theft of land and homes, which continues unabated through the present day.
And do you think Hezbollah restarting the hostilities after almost two decades of de facto ceasefire was helpful for the civilians? Which civilians have gained anything from it? The dead?
And do you think the colonization of Palestine, the establishment of an apartheid regime and the subsequent genocide of Palestinians was helpful?
History is just a tad bit more complicated than you seem to be aware of, but do you really think Hezbollah (and Hamas) reigniting the conflict made the world better?
Which other conflicts would you like to see reignited?
You are defending the murder of children.
I'm condemning starting a war in which children are going to die
Good, we should all be condemning israel
Are you living in some Bizarroworld where it's Israel that broke the ceasefire with Hezbollah back in October?
Are you living in some bizaroworld were wide spread terrorist attacks are ok?
GEE I WONDER WHAT ISRAEL WAS DOING BACK IN OCTOBER
Before they were attacked by Hamas in the south and subsequently Hezbollah in the north? Please elaborate. You can stay in all caps if you want
Y'all wackos always yapping about some irrelevant date and irrelevant event in order to justify colonialism, racism, apartheid, kidnapping, sexual assault, terrorism, genocide, etc.
Nobody cares about your hasbara nonsense.
Wow yeah all these 'events' and 'dates' everyone's always talking about are just all irrelevant
You've really opened my eyes
Israel started the fight in 1982. Hezbollah was formed in response.
Ok, so in your mind, the year is 1982. Israel just invaded Southern Lebanon and is fighting the PLO. Nothing like Israel withdrawing, the entire Lebanese civil war, the '90s, the 2006 war, the events of 2023 has happened. 1982 Hezbollah received some missiles from the future and fired them at some Israelis that haven't been born yet.
It is forever 1982, and the killing will never end
Amazing fucking goalposts there. From "Well who started it??" to "Who cares who started it, that's so long ago" in literally one comment.
Fuck these nazi ass fucking zionists.
Do you think the killing is ever going to end if Hezbollah can't stop unless Israel is dissolved? Don't you think the world would be better if they stopped attacking eachother?
The killing will end when the state of Israel ends. Israel exists to commit genocide. It was committing genocide long before Hezbollah or Hamas existed. Hezbollah and Hamas exists because Israel is a fascist, genocidal state. The world will be better when it's gone.
What do you think of all the other countries that committed and commit what you call genocide? Should they all be attacked? Should the people of the world put perpetual genocides on eachother until one remains?
It's actually been 75+ years of zionist invasions and genocide. Terrorism has always been their tool. Just read any history book...
https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/article/israel-historian-on-king-david-hotel-bombing-it-wa
Peace was never part of the plan for colonial genocide. Have you ever seen the zio genocide map? They're planning on invading every neighboring state, stealing the land, and continuing with genocide.
Why steal just one state when you can steal the whole region? It's what god wants his chosen people to do. smh.
Wow that's really interesting!
Can you share some more info on Israel's plan to conquer half the Middle East? This sounds very realistic now that you've mentioned it
How many thousands of children have been slaughtered by Israeli troops?
If you want to be pedantic, and you're talking only about this specific attack, children were killed in these pager/walkie-talkie blasts too. Are they enemy combatants to you?
Don't be a genocide apologist.
Doesn't really matter if they weren't targeted if they still ended up dead.
So, like, are Israeli reservists fair game for terror attacks?
If they're on active duty, they're legitimate military targets. If they're on inactive duty, they're considered civilians.
But if they are active duty and have military comms, it's just called an "attack", not a "terror attack", even if the attackers are otherwise terrorists.
And your evidence that Israel only targetted active duty Hezbollah combattants?
Just anyone in an airplane or bus or subway with them
Hezbollah is a political party as well as a paramilitary group. What if Canada did this to The Oath Keepers or CSPOA or The Proud Boys or another group in the US? They're all objectively bad people, buy only a few have committed terrorist attacks. Do they all and the people who happen to be around them deserve to die by a foreign government's actions?
Call it for what it is, a terrorist attack.
The media condemned political violence against Trump in unison one month ago.
Israel commits one of the biggest terrorist attacks against a Lebanese political organization in history and the media claps.
My concern twofold
A: Without evidence I have a hard time seeing planting bombs in devices was solely targeted at fighters. Odds are an entire shipment was targeted and many people who weren't Hezbollah received bombs
B: Blowing up devices that were by definition carried everywhere certainly killed families and associates who didn't deserve to die.
During the Iraqi war we considered Iraqi leadership targets and I wouldn't have been surprised if they considered our leadership targets as well. If they had in fact only killed Hezbollah I would have no problem with the attack.
In Iraq every Iraqi civilian was considered a valid target.
The definition of "enemy combatant" was "anyone within the blast radius of a US strike". I kid you not.
They were probably mostly in the hands of Hezbollah members, if not fighters. This is probably why they went off in hospitals as well. Lots of medics who volunteer who's normal job is being a doctor in a Beirut hospital. Lots of logistics and people hiding weapons in the back of buildings for them.
They're not full time militants if I understand correctly. Most of these people will have civilian lives and jobs to go to.
Certainly some innocent family members died. There's no such thing as a completely surgical strike. It is better than what they've been doing in Gaza though, by several orders of magnitude. I don't think anybody can defend what's been going on there with a straight face.
Maybe so but commit a little genocide here and there and suddenly nobody wants to give you the benefit of the doubt.
And they whined about a fucking bus exploding.
About some pipe rockets killing a random bloke or two.
And this
appears to be wrong since their attack wasn't at all this targeted. It's a mass terror campaign against whole Lebanese population in order to saturate its attention and reduce morale before an invasion.
We all got complacent relying on big nations with big militaries for punishing such behavior, and they are all in bed with the criminal.
Despite this not being Hezbollah's best moment, I think they and similar guerrillas are the exact kind of people we should learn from for solutions to Israel and the rest of the problem.
Lotta Hezbollah flags in that crowd, was that some kind of funeral procession from yesterday’s pagers?
Yes, a funeral procession for 4 members.
Exponential funeral growth.
If your state was under attack by genocidal terrorists, wouldn't you support the resistance?
This is a super-villain plan becoming a reality.
If this carries on, we'll have exploding semaphore flags by the end of the week.
Don't mess with Americas boats
Shit, we use the same radios at work. Hope no-one blew up.
I saw this on Reddit first while I was checking my city subreddit, damn the headline there definitely gives a different impression.
(The comments are all mostly jokes, didn't even bother wading through them and came to see If Lemmy had a thread instead).
R/worldnews? It's completely run by zionists. Anything critical or Israel or pro Palestinian gets instantly nuked
At this point, r/worldnews comments are so thoroughly astroturfed by so many global powers, their only use is to get an idea of what various propaganda machines think.
Someone tell them the Palm Pilots aren't safe either
Might have to break out my Newton as a precautionary measure.
Whatever you do, don’t use the stylus! /s
So if I understand correctly, Israel managed to get a bunch of people in Hezbollah to use pagers and walkie talkies that contained bombs. But they have not been able to gather enough intelligence from control of those communication devices to find and rescue the remaining hostages? And if they weren’t able to catch useful information from those devices, why did the people holding those devices deserve to get blown up?
Hezbollah operates out of Lebanon, and the hostages are in Gaza? They have nothing to do with each other…
Thanks. I honestly haven’t been following it all closely. (I guess that’s obvious from my last comment). But why blow up a bunch of people in Lebanon?
This might help to clarify.
Because tensions between Hezbollah and Israel have been steadily rising since October 7th because of Hzebollah's objection to how Israel is acting in Gaza. To be clear, prior to October 7th, tensions were already high enough that they would regularly lob bombs at each other. Today's "escalated" tensions include northern Israel being evacuated due to threats from Hezbolla's rocket attacks.
At this point, it is clear that the options available to Israel are to either withdraw from Gaza and hope Hezbolla stands down, or end up in a full war with Hezbolla. Historians will say that the war with Hezbolla started months ago, and this was just one attack among many.
You are forgetting one simple fact. They don’t care about the hostages.
Oh, they definitely do, in their own way.
The hostages are in Gaza, not Lebanon. If Israel had this level of infiltration with Hamas, it is unlikely this would've started in the first place
If only the nazis had infiltrated the warsaw ghetto... \s \s \s
Think about it like, there's one person who was able to tell the perpetrators of this that a big order of communication devices is being made.
Perpetrators are clearly sophisticated so it's fair to assume they can throw some skilled team at it.
This attack could be years in the making.
From a spy craft and capabilities standpoint it’s an amazing attack. I’m skeptical that using the devices as bombs is more useful than using them for spying, but who knows? It is super fucked up that random people who happen to be near the targets could be hurt. But between that and the stuxnet attack, it’s safe to say that Israel is capable of crazy sophisticated attacks.
Except they barely knew what they were doing with stuxnet too.
I heard 5 months, forgot where from.
Booby-trapped walkie-talkies and pagers.
This reminds me of when during sieges during the Middle Ages they used to lob the bodies of the dead back inside the castle. I'm not sure if it's because of the lines they've crossed over and ignored regarding civilian casualties on this, or that this will essentially cause other parties to cross those same lines. This is giving ideas to China and Russia, and humanity has been far shittier in the past, I really don't want to see how bad we will regress to.
Ok, guys, after the pager thing, I am pretty sure walkie talkies are next. Like that's really An obvious one.
I don't have any ideas on what next. Landline phones probably.
Cups with strings
Owch that couch Pic.
::: spoiler Axios - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report) Information for Axios:
::: spoiler Search topics on Ground.News https://www.axios.com/2024/09/18/israel-detonates-hezbollah-walkie-talkies-second-wave-after-pager-attack ::: Media Bias Fact Check | bot support
You do love to see it
These guys were still carrying these pagers to the funeral of the last group getting killed by their pagers? 200 IQ move.
It was walkie-talkies today.
Fair enough
Still, wouldn't you at least check your devices after yesterday?
Go ahead. Open your iPhone. Some things don't present as being safe to open without damaging the unit, so no one's going to pop it open for lulz.
I mean, I certainly wouldn't assume it was more than just the one thing yesterday, if you did, why didn't you warn anyone? But now that it has been 2 things, you can certainly bet every other device is checked or chucked for a while. Fool me twice...
Surely the almighty god they pray to five times a day wouldn't let something like that happen a second time, would he
Since you've obviously forgotten, they share the same God and origin story as the Hebrews and Christians, and He's known for working in mysterious ways, so who knows which side He's taking on any one day?
Terrorists killing terrorists... Nice. Seriously... what is next? Exploding toilet seats with verses from quran, issued last ramadan only to elite hezbollah members?
These are the terrorists killing anyone standing around people the terrorists don't like. During a funeral.
Ok, on the one hand, yes, blowing up Hamas is funny.
OTOH, this is not cool, bombing random people is a problem.
The US has this wonderful system called the Hellfire R-9X which is basically a flying slap-chop that ginzus a single target with 9 pop-out blades. Can we hand a couple over to the IDF and Mossad so they stop randomly blowing up parts of Lebanon?
It's not killing Hamas that's the issue, it's the collateral.
This is Hezbollah, not Hamas.
How about we stop giving the genocidal government weapons and ammo all together
There you. You can’t stop people from fighting, but we certainly can stop helping them kill each other.
And look, I get it’s a hot button issue for a lot of people. I’m not suggesting anyone is wrong for whatever side they choose. It’s too complex of an issue for my pea-brain to fully understand. What I do understand is that the US and other countries need to be working toward helping both sides find a reasonable and peaceful solution — whatever that may be (I’ll leave that to the smarter people to figure out).
They're two religious sides going at it for a 100 years, each wanting the same piece of territory. There is no solution
Blowing anybody up is NEVER funny. And it never will be.
One exception.
I can think of a couple. P diddy is coming to mind today... allegedly.
There's still gonna be some collateral damage with those, that can't be employed at scale as readily -- you'd have to concurrently target huge numbers of people from airborne platforms, and these are pretty small charges. Given that Hezbollah isn't fighting in the open -- understandably -- this is probably about as good as it realistically gets in terms of collateral damage.
Israel could maybe use DIME charges to have a smaller difference between lethal radius and damaging radius, but that's got its own unpleasant aspects.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dense_inert_metal_explosive
If Israel isn't using those already, I guess we could send 'em some, if we have some sitting around. Realistically, though, I doubt that collateral damage is gonna be possible to reduce a whole lot, given the fact that Hezbollah's hiding in a civilian population.
Well there's your problem right there:
You're concerned we can't scale up arbitrary killings? Would you prefer something on a larger, more industrial scale, perhaps with large, gas-fueled ovens?
Killing should be hard, and it should be personal, not vaguely waving a hand in a general direction. You should know their name and hopefully have filled out a few forms beforehand.
If you want to kill somebody, when you aren't at war with their entire country, then BE SPECIFIC.
Drone strikes that take out a known Al-Queda leader: âś…
Drone strike that takes out a random Afghan wedding: ❌
There are a large number of people in Hezbollah. Israel is fighting them.
You're talking about using a Hellfire R-9X.
In order to launch those concurrently against, I dunno, sounds like there are maybe hundreds or thousands of targets, you're going to need to have hundreds or thousands of drones. You're gonna need something like a TB-2 at least to be lobbing them, not a tiny little drone. You're talking about a lot of medium-size UAVs. That's where your scale limitation is gonna come from.
Those things are fine if you're trying to kill one person. But Israel's fighting a number of people, even if it can identify them. They aren't gonna have thousands of drones above Lebanon.
And if they're hitting buildings and such, then you're gonna be collapsing buildings and stuff like that.
Secondly, I assume that the Lebanese government is not going to give Israel free reign to do drone strikes on Hezbollah on Lebanese territory, will shoot at those drones, so to use those, you'd need to destroy any air defense that Lebanon has. My guess is that Israel's looking to just fight Hezbollah as much as possible.
Tl;Dr you're declaring war on Lebanon.
Then just admit it, this bs dance is childish.
You're either at war with them or the Lebanese are innocent bystanders where you have to minimize collateral damage, can't have it both ways.
Someone should check if Walter White is in Lebanon