What would happen if caffeine was made illegal?

000999@lemmy.dbzer0.com to Asklemmy@lemmy.ml – 238 points –

Caffeine must be one of, if not the, most used drug. It is vital to the operation of more or less every industry.

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Pharma companies would already have a caffeine equivalent that would be only slightly different in structure so it would circumvent the law. It would then be sold at exorbitant prices and people would still pay even with the side effect of sometimes you eat someone's face. Of course they would then sell you something else to stop the side effects. You would also have the caffeine purists who would start their own speak easies and organized crime. People "abiding by the law" would start calling the purist, plants, since that is where caffeine is coming from, while the synthetic caffeine users would be called zombies for the obvious face eating reasons. This whole thing would cause even greater divides between already split countries leading to all out war. WWIII plants vs zombies.

This comment was amazing to come across and I look forward to the film adaptation.

Haha thanks. Wrote it drinking my morning cup of coffee.

I did a spit take when I read this

(of my coffee)

Well, pack it in folks, Lemmy has peaked. It's not getting better than this from here on.

Thanks, the punchline was worth it.

I think once upon a time alcohol was illegal somewhere? That's what would happen. And I'd totally join a mafia

This is the real answer. When they illegalized a drug that was already widespread and in common use, basically everyone simply became a criminal. There's no reason to think people's natures will have changed enough to suddenly want to be law-abiding citizens, easpecially when they're on ceffeine withdrawl.

I don't think it would be as widespread though, since you need specific caffeine producing plants in order to get it, as opposed to alcohol which can be made from just about anything. The growth and distribution would probably be more like Marijuana, if 90% of the country were addicted to it (so insanely expensive and a whole lot of also caffeine-dependent cops being paid off).

Pretty much the same as with every illegal product. It would move to black market because as long as there is demand there will always be a supply.

That would require passing a law to ban both tea and coffee. And who do you think will bother to sit through a meeting without tea or coffee to even discuss such a bill?

And who do you think will bother to sit through a meeting without tea or coffee to even discuss such a bill?

Are you suggesting that politicians follow the laws they put in place?

I think they're referring to the discussion of banning caffeine while they have their coffee and tea

I'm pretty sure the last time the govt tried to mess with our tea we started a war and made a new govt, so uh, that.

The economy would come to a screeching halt for a week or two when everyone is suffering from withdrawal.

Coffee would be served in underground cafeterias. The criminal gangs would immediately find a new very lucrative market in coffee smuggling.

I'd just go back to cocaine. What is the question here?

Have you ever had coca tea? It's amazing - way better than caffeine. It's more gentle, but stronger - like it gives you more energy, but you don't get a hard crash, it's less likely to make it hard to sleep, plus it has all sorts of health benefits - being able to adjust to high altitude for one

Cocaine probably shouldn't be sold at the drug stores, but it would be amazing if we treated it like caffeine - you need a license to buy it, but you can get the leaves or products made for it

Plus we could make a path to legitimize cartels and stop getting people killed over the the war on drugs, which would be nice

I can't imagine some shady guy in a street corner saying "I've got the stuff" and it's just fucking coffee beans 💀

Ever heard of prohibition? Probably that.

It's a part of so much natural food it'd be impossible to ban

In quantities large enough to matter?

Yep, chocolate for example. Especially high cocoa chocolate.

Today I learned "high cocoa chocolate" is a natural food.

... wait, is that right? Chocolate is a processed food. Chocolate isn't a natural food. High-cocoa chocolate is a processed food. High-cocoa chocolate isn't a natural food.

Can someone fix my brain plz?

Caffeine occurs naturally in cacao. AFAIK, there is no way to process it out. That's all they meant.

Although you'd kinda have to eat a lot t get a significant dose.

Ooooh I'm definitely overthinking things

thanks for the clarify

Any government which makes caffeine illegal must be prepared to enforce that law with mass violence, or let it be ignored.

Given how unlikely your average cop is going to enforce a law they regularly brea... Oh, nevermind. Yeah it'd be a shit show. Demonstrations, arrests, black markets, the whole nine yards.

This eventual solution would likely bring to mind Bunny Colvin's "paper bag" speech from the wire

Somewhere back in the beginning of time, this district had itself a civic dilemma of epic proportions. The city council had just passed a law that forbade alcoholic consumption in public areas; on the streets and on the corners. But the corner is, it was and it always will be the poor man's lounge. It's where a man wants to be on a hot summer's night. It's cheaper than a bar. Catch a nice breeze and watch the girls go on by. But the law is the law so what are the western cops gonna do? They arrest every dude for tipping back a High Life, there'd be no time for any other kind of police work. And if they look the other way, they open themselves up to all kinds of flaunting, all kinds of disrespect. Now, this is before my time but somewhere back in the 50's or the 60's, there was a moment of goddamn genius by some nameless smokehound who comes out the Cut-Rate one day and on his way to the corner he slips that just bought pint of elderberry into a paper bag. A great moment of civic compromise. That small wrinkled ass paper bag allowed the corner boys to have their drink in peace and gave us permission to go and do police work. The kind of police work that's actually worth the effort, that's actually worth taking a bullet for.

Loads of people will go through withdrawal symptoms.

Tell me about it. My coffee machine suddenly broke down the past weekend and I've had such a bad week. I tried red bull as a replacement but an energy drink in the morning is just weird. I then tried English breakfast tea which was nice in its own way but I still felt down during the day.

Yesterday I was feeling so off that I even tried alcohol because maybe being numb would help?

Today I'm feeling much better. Now this sound like it's one hell of a drug, and I can't for sure tell if it's just the lack of caffeine or overall bad habits plus somewhat of a small depression hit this week which made all of it so bad. But yea I was really not feeling this week, and I can't wait until my fixed machine arrives on Monday.

A small piece of advice, don't go drinking waterfalls of coffee when you get your machine back. Stick to the rivers and lakes your body is used to.

Without the Destiny's Child reference, it's like a recovering opioid addict who's fallen off the wagon. Your body isn't used to the amount of coffee you drank two weeks ago. So drink less than you did. Also if you want to save money could be a great time to moderate your caffeine intake altogether, since you're already basically done the hardest part.

I mean I'd like to follow that advice, but my coffee consumption is quite low actually. I usually drink half a cup of coffee a day. Some days 2 half. And this only in the morning.

The problem is that if I don't, I tend to get quite the bad migraine around noon. So I prefer to simply have it. Also it does boost my mood and productivity in the morning a lot. I don't really feel like I need to stop it, but I appreciate your advice, I do know some people who drink an awful lot of coffee which even I find kinda disturbing.

I accidentally brought decaf once and didn't realise until half way though the week after experiencing horrible headaches for a few days.

The same thing that happened when they made shipping nicotine through the mail illegal.

I stock up on a shitload of pure caffeine/nicotine, and store it.

Either that, or I start extracting it from other commonly available foods... (caffeine is present in quite a few foods naturally. )

Or, finally.... there would then just become a black market for caffeine.

The same stuff which happened during the prohibition period many years ago.

Fuck yeah a coffee speak easy sounds amazing. Like prohibition or not I would totes go to a coffee speakeasy

What would happen if caffeine was made illegal?

black market

Yup, people would be growing beans in their backyard like weed plants, and people would be learning to roast their own shit lol

Michael Pollen wrote a audible book about how modern capitalism wouldn't have been possible without the invention of the light bulb and the abundance of caffeinated beverages as it facilitated a 24 hour economy. Literally titled Caffeine: How Caffeine Created the Modern World.

So what would happen if the government illegalized caffeine? I'd say they'd be more likely to prohibit literally any other drug including alcohol and tobacco. But if I were to indulge this hypothetical scenario, I'd say other new stimulants without any legal status would be invented to replace caffeine.

Wow, that weirdly explains why the 40 hour workweek has always made me suffer so much - caffeine doesn't affect me, so I've never gotten an energy boost from it.

I would classify the effects of caffeine as more anti-drowsy than energy-boosting but maybe that is just semantics.

I haven’t had any caffeine in my diet for nearly 2 months now and I feel amazing.

I'm pretty sure you're right. Without looking it up to correct myself I'm pretty sure caffeine blocks receptors for the tired stuff.

cocaine sales would go up. People would try microdosing. Some of those people would end up regular dosing.

There would be a black market, not only for coffee and tea, but also for caffeine powder, which people would sprinkle into anything.

Peoples' overall caffeine consumption would go down. That girl from my high school who got the shakes every afternoon would probably have been better off.

Nicotine sales would probably go up. It's a mild stimulant.

Can confirm, I chew nic gum when I don't feel like taking my ADHD medication. Gives you a little kick and (at least for me, YMMV) isn't addictive.

Nicotine is definitely addictive, but it's not nearly as addictive as a whole cigarette - cigs have more than just nicotine that's addictive and some of those things are more addictive than nicotine.

chocolate

soft drinks

and a few more things (and of course, all other products with chocolate in them. ice cream, candy bars etc)

would also be illegal.

You think Starbucks has been ruthless against the SBU? Turning them into a drug cartel would mean they go 1900s Pinkertons on them.

I would have a bad headache for a few days, but I would probably power through and not resolve to illegal purchases.

I'm the government's bitch.

Yeah, I'm tempted to say "RIOTS AND PITCHFORKS!", but let's be real, I can't torrent coffee.

Caffeine doesn't require a laboratory or manufacturing operations. It can come from plants. What would happen is people start growing and developing an underground caffeine distribution network and underground caffeine import network from countries that aren't dumb.

Weed users are less than 20% of the US population and that was a shadow industry bigger than most legal industries. Compare to 60% drink coffee every day, then there's tea drinkers and of other caffeinated beverages; people would riot and/or go underground to get their caffeine.

Medical errors would become the number one cause of death overnight.

It would also be a very dark night, as every IT system in the world would crash. Bringing down power grids, and infrastructure systems everywhere. I have yet to work in an IT department which wasn't staffed completely with caffeine junkies (myself included). You want your blinken lights working? Give us the caffeine and no one gets their data routed to /dev/null.

The governments probably stop functioning. Apocalypse ensues.

I think if you banned coffee, most countries would have legit riots of not revolutions. The people will put up with a lot, but not that.

My first thought reading the question "blood in the streets". Coffee has been around for hundreds of years and is deeply cultural in many parts of the world. I don't see any reality where that could happen.

Like "you get a fine" illegal, or "you go to jail" illegal, or "Judge Dredd executes you in the street for possessing stimulants" illegal? If the punishment is light or the risk is low, many people probably just keep using it, like alcohol during Prohibition. If there's a harsh punishment and the risk of actually being punished is high, there might be riots.

People would suddenly realize it’s better to go to bed earlier and sleep longer than hitting snooze 5 times and needing that energy boost every morning. Who am I kidding, people would revolt.

Bathtub coffee and speakeasys.

Wait…? You don’t make your coffee in the bathtub??

I'm more sophisticated than that. I have a spare toilet to brew my illegal coffee, tyvm.

I think productivity would increase after about a month of global caffeine withdrawal. Plus heart attacks would probably decrease

Same thing that happens with most drugs. It'll still get in, prices will skyrocket, and it'll be laced with fentanyl so instead of enjoying a nice cup of coffee, you'll die because the government tried to tell you what you can do to your own body again.

Caffeine as an additive to drinks is weird.

Its a bittering agent. Though I'll admit the mild psychotropic effects are probably why we use it instead of the myriad other things that are just as bitter and probably safer to consume overall.

The pyramids were built without coffee.

Make of that what you will.

Weren't they built with slave labor...?

Probably not:

encyclopedia Britanica

Learned something new today, thanks!

If I could give you ten extra points for responding like that I would. Instead, have my respect.

Now, I've just learnt that beer was involved too... So...

I appreciate it! I do my best to promote a good vibe :)

And I guess if you can't have coffee/caffeine, beer is second best. (I have the taste buds of a child.)

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The entire premise of this question seems insane. The only industry in which caffeine is vital is probably the coffee industry.

Yeah, there would be a black market and what not but that doesn't mean the world would stop turning off supply ran out.

Don’t forget many types of tea have similar levels of caffeine. And US started a whole war over a tax on tea much less a ban.

The us revolutionary War was more about taxes in general, not just tea.

Perhaps some people would stop punishing their own bodies for the benefit of their employer.

Ha, I drink way more coffee on the weekends than I do during the work week. It's definitely a recreational drug for me.

Have a headache for a few days. And reorganize everything to not start the workday before noon.

Anyone who comes between me and my tea leaves is a dead man.

Especially on a Monday.

If people couldn't find alternatives and caffeine wasn't illegally available...

Many people who need coffee to function in the morning would lose their shit. Overworked people and workers with really long shifts will not be able to keep up. People would probably fall asleep at work.

This made me realize people would probably fall asleep while driving and cause unusably congested highways all across the country, potentially causing supplies shortages.

Probably a lot more work related murders.

I'd have a rough few weeks coming off my 8 espressos a day habit but I'd get over it eventually

I consider a double shot the minimum portion - do you have 8 of those?

I do not. I have 4 of those. It's 2 capsules per cup out of a nespresso machine or a double shot from the office machine, 4 times a day.

Ok, 4 of those is more than me most days, but not too bad

It's probably too much by a lot, and I'll have to stop at some point, but I really enjoy the taste and the social aspect of getting up and walking over to the coffee machine with the team. We get a couple minutes to chitchat, ask any technical question we have, etc.

Well, without caffeine i would turn into an ax wielding murderous psychopath. Humanity would seize to exist, nature would heal and the world would rebuild itself. Lizards would become the dominant species and tadaaaa!

Cartels would become huuuuuge (more hugerest than now) also fast car and fast boats sales would skyrocket.

Offices won't get any work done before 10am. Soldiers would fall asleep at their posts.

The software industry would stall out, mass unemployment, dramatically more car crashes. Coffee, black and green tea, most soda, and some drugs would disappear from shelves and stores. Coffee shops would all close, you'd be able to get pretty much just water with your big Mac, midol takers would be furious and in pain, ADHD people would have to try harder to fall asleep. For lack of a better term, there would be a rubber band effect apocalypse while the shadow markets got set up and supplies

Does caffeine help individuals with ADHD in sleeping in some way?

For some it helps them fall asleep. I had a friend in HS who would drink a monster before bed. I have a friend who currently only has coffee after 5pm to make sure they don't fall asleep earlier. It's anecdotal for sure but it works for them

Take away my morning coffee, and you’ll have me becoming a super villain taking over the world.

Just a reminder that a substance being legal doesn't mean you should consume it.

It would be yet another failed policy pushed by the kind of idiots who like to ban things. Comics/Guns/Porn/Drugs etc.