Bike Riders of lemmy, you okay with me riding my eScooter in the bike lane?
The sidewalks are really dangerous where I am, where they are super uneven, have "artistic" curves, and trees that are overhanging really low so like will hit my body.
I go max 15 MPH on my escooter and if I hear a ding ding I jump onto the sidewalk and go a bit slower until you guys pass, since I'm slower and can dismount easier it only makes sense for me to make room. I figure as long as I make room it "shouldn't" be a problem.
But just wondering if there are any bike riders that are just like shaking their fist at escooter riders.
EDIT: USA!
In my eyes having someone on an escooter in front of me is no different to having a slower cyclist in front. So it wouldn't bother me.
Slower? The guy said he does 15mph, that's pretty standard bicycle speed for me, I could go faster if I'm trying to really race somewhere but then my leggies get tireds >.<
Electric motor scooters are pretty neat, I wish I had one, but they're sooo expensive :-(
One day, after the apocalypse makes money obsolete, I'll take one from an abandoned shop while I'm scavenging for food :-D
Have you figured out how you will keep charging it after the apocalypse?
25 km/h (15miles/h) is slow. A racing bicycle will without sweet do 40-50 km/h.
https://www.flobikes.com/articles/6750279-how-does-your-average-bike-speed-compare-with-tour-de-france-pros
Even your own source disagrees with you đ
I think youâre looking at the numbers for the top 0.1% of cyclists in the world when theyâre competingâŚ
The average is still faster than the speed being discussed, so I don't think their point is entirely wrong
Itâs marginally slower to the point that it doesnât matter.
Itâs not half the speed like they were claiming, so I think their point is entirely wrongâŚ
I am talking about what DrMoronicAcid said not what Eideen said, just to be clear.
What is a amateur?, with my crappy mountain bike I can do 30-35km/h on flat ground, for 30min comfortable, And still get passed by people on race bikes.
Do you have a computer telling you that speed or are you just making a guess? Because I find it unrealistic to be +30 kph on flat ground with a mountain bike for 30 minutes.
I say this because I have a gravel bike and can only keep +30kph for long periods if I'm on a slight incline and I'm pedaling with a purpose (not full sprint, but you wouldn't see a commuter pedal that hard)
On average people in commuting bikes will most likely be at around 15kph, low 20s on descents.
On descents it easy, I do up to 50km/h.
Thingsthat go bicycle speed belong in the bike lane. Things that go faster go in the car lane. Things that go slower belong inthe people lane,
Bundle the squishy things together on a segregated path.
Make the squishy things who invade the 2-ton hard things' designated areas attract a penalty except at marked crossings. Double that penalty when they whinge in that privileged voice.
Itâs not really up to Lemmy.
Please check your local laws regarding scooters and other electric powered vehicles bike lanes. If itâs legal, go ahead and ride there all you want.
No laws against it, but I'm just curious if I'm angering the faster and more athletic folks!
I'll be much more irritated if you're on the sidewalk. It's more dangerous for pedestrians and for you. When you're biking you expect to have to pass people whether it's because they're a slower cyclist or using a escooter. My old apartment had an exit at a blind corner and dealing with escooter riders on the sidewalk was hellish. I would pull out slowly so that pedestrians had plenty of time to stop, but when scooters became popular I had to start creating forward at a painfully slow pace because people going bike speeds somehow thought it was okay to be on the sidewalk.
There is a specific place I use sidewalk, but I always go slower and go onto street or walk by pedestrians.
The road is just super busy and nowhere to possibly be on road.
I think if you're respectful most people won't care. It's just the small percent of jackasses that ruin it for everyone else.
Please ride in the bike lane, not the sidewalk. Go whatever speed feels safe for you.
Not only do I agree on the basis of everyone's safety, but I WANT to see crowded bike lanes. Because eventually, I'd like bike lanes to replace cars, and outgrowing infrastructure is a basic part of expanding and changing it.
i love crowded bike lanes (well, multi-use paths in sweden) next to slower roads, because it gives me the justification for biking on the road.
As someone who doesn't ride bicycles. What's the huge issue with cars? They're a ton more effective than bikes.
I think motorised vehicle owners and cyclists just have a universal hate for each other. Well, a lot of people do. There's a ton of people on bikes that are absolute cunts, and that comes from bad experiences with them.
Maybe if we all use the things how we're supposed to, a lot of this hate would disappear.
Edit: Thinking about it, as someone who rides a motorbike, some car drivers are just as bad. I've genuinely noticed that actual licenced motorbike riders tend to be the best out of them all. My main asking point was that you can't really do a full weeks worth of shopping with anything other than a car. U less you get it delivered.
It's not ideological or personal. Cars are just a terribly inefficient mode of transit with a lot of negatives. They cause a lot of preventable deaths, they take up an excess of land, and they limit our ability to move around and enjoy cities.
I wouldn't really say they're terribly inefficient. They've got a lot of practical uses.
And I wouldn't say cars themselves cause the deaths. Its the dickheads who drive the cars. Much like how a push biker, who looked like he was about to stop at some light that he was supposed at, decided to just go faster and swerve straight in front me, causing me panic, slip my bike into neutral when I wanted second, put on my revs whilst being in neutral, then having to aggressively throw my bike to the left, just so that I wouldn't plow straight into him. This cause me to have to the thread the needle between him and another push biker who I could've easily hit as well. If I were in my car, chances are I would've clipped either of them, and it would've been their fault. Not the cars.
Whilst they can take up a lot of space, it should be important to know that quite a lot of the time, cars here drive over roads that would've originally been planned for horse and carriages. And only really just adapted for cars. You can see that on UK country roads.
Do you mind me asking where you're from? I haven't really seen anything like the last point where I'm from. Quite a few places are pedestrians and push bikes only. With very few exceptions. That could also be because you rarely see big cars here. This also applies to taking up excessive land.
I do believe that public transport should be a lot better. I live in a small village about 10 miles from the nearest city. And I work in the city centre. My only options are either pray that a bus actually shows up and isn't late, or take my car to the tiny not really built for cars alley and risk scraping it. The other issue with public transport is, if I have to try to get to the very back of a bus, and pray that no one sits near me, or sit in a place I will feel extremely uncomfortable with. Both of these options mean that I need to have something I can squeeze the shit out. And shelter myself in and try to be as invisible as possible. I do not have these issues with cars or motorbikes. Cars because I'm in my own personal space where I feel a ton more comfortable, and the bike where it lets me hide the entirety of my body, again, making me feel a lot more comfortable.
đ
As a cyclist, I'd say "welcome" because more people using the road means motorists are going to see more varied road users and thus be more conscious of them. So that should make the roads safer. I hope that reasoning works out.
15mph (24 km/h) is pretty quick. I could keep up with you, and I'm only using leg power. I average around 12mph.
I cycle every day to work and back and see e scooters everywhere, doesnât bother me none as long as they follow road signage.
As far as I'm concerned, you're just another bike :)
... with tiny wheels đ
I don't mind bikes, E or otherwise, in the bike lane, I do mind gas powered scooters, vespa etc. I'm not sure I can put a pin in why, except they stink and often are riding too fast and weaving in and out wrecklessly and just using the bike lane as a passing lane, returning to the regular road when they can
Why? Because the gas ones will actively ruin the bike path. They are much heavier and will cause much quicker wear and tear. Of course you also shouldn't have to breathe the fumes from them.
Noisy and stinky should be enough. But yeah they often seem to be driven by people who don't regard others.
It's illegal here. Motorized vehicles must ride in the road and obey traffic laws. Bicycles must ride in bike lane or road and obey traffic laws. Sidewalk for walking people or wheelchairs or similar.
But electric is ok? Is it just combustion engines?
The ones you stand on that go slowly? Our rules say you have to be 16 years or older and I was wrong, bike lanes are allowed, rules same as bicycle even though it's motorized. Bike lane or road, stop at lights like a car, don't ride on the line between cars.
In practice, I don't think people are actually getting ticketed for riding them on the sidewalk, and I don't really care either as long as they don't run me over. If you cause a car accident because you were on the sidewalk moving faster than a jogger then you would be at fault. Like a bike, sidewalk can be a dangerous place if you aren't moving slowly.
Hell i don't even really mind electric golfcart-like vehicles on bike infrastructure, so long as they're for commercial use, there's enough space to very comfortably pass them, and they go really slow.
Way i see it that just means businesses are going to be pushing for more and better bike infrastructure rather than expanding the roads.
My thoughts exactly. I welcome my scooter bros.
If it's a 2 stroke vespa, yeah, they have that smell. It's also an easier way to differentiate between old classics and new ones. I don't have any experience with new vespas, but I think they would've gone to 4 strokes now.
I'll also point out. At least in the UK, 50cc riders tend to be absolutely brain-dead morons.
You can usually tell which ones are the culprits because they've fucked their exhaust. And ride around like, "yeahhh look at me, I'm so cool with my shit sounding underpowered bike." No mate, you get maybe 35mph if you've de-restricted it, and you're borderline red lining it. Calm down. You just look stupid. Same goes for 125's sure they get a bit of extra speed and can get to 70, but it'll take like 2 minutes to get up to speed and abusing your engine.
Fuck most delivery drivers as well.
Theyâre faster than a bike, but not by much. That guarantees you have their stink in your nose for a long while, usually until paths separate.
It matters less where you're riding and more which set of rules you are following. If you're on a sidewalk, or opposing traffic, you need to behave as a pedestrian. If you're riding with traffic, you need to behave as a vehicle.
There is one rule underlying all traffic rules: Be Predictable. Even if you're following all the applicable laws and regulations, if people can't figure out what you're trying to do, you are wrong.
To that effect, if you hang a red light on your ass and a white light up front, everyone will expect you to operate like a vehicle.
15 mph is plenty fast enough to belong in the bike lane. You're good bro.
In Denmark youre essentially considered a bike.
I would personally have an easier time you rode and acted like a cyclist. Much safer for you.
I'm Swiss but I reply because that's an interesting topic đ
Yeah please ride on the bike lane, I'm shocked to see how many people ride their e-scooters on the sidewalk
I'm not in a major city but I absolutely believe you have full rights to use the bike lane, no questions asked. I would say you're going far above and beyond by jumping off for a second and letting people pass.
As long as you limit weaving side to side. I generally wouldnât mind pedestrians except theyâre so damn unpredictable
I'm the Netherlands where everyone and their mom rides bikes and we have bike lanes everywhere, escooters / ebikes / regular scooters all go on the bike lane. It's less dangerous to go a bit slower than a fast biking person (like a grandma on a regular bike) and just staying on the right, than the dangers on the sidewalk.
I say it's perfectly fine to be in the bike lane. Much better than the sidewalk, when you're going at that speed.
However, I would like to emphasize the importance of staying to the right at all times unless passing someone. Cyclists, bikers (less adept cyclists), and escooter riders should all adhere to this, but in my experience escooters are far less likely to do so. Same with signaling --- tell people around you with hand signals which way you're going to go well in advance, and go (gradually, carefully) toward that side of the bike lane / bike path before turning to ensure you don't cut anyone off. Don't weave between people. Be aware of your surroundings. Please don't kill or maim anyone.
Good luck out there! Welcome to the land of the free from cars!
I don't care where you ride it as long as you don't act like a douchebag
Just give me some notice you're passing me, that was always my fucking gripe with the food delivery guys in NYC. They just show up in your periphery and scare the fuck outta you. Ring a bell! Say hello! I'll say hello back! Goodbye!
in the Netherlands, scooter can ride on the bicycle lane.
Yeah go for it, but I need you to know you look goofy af
What, even next to the lycra-wrapped cyclists with that "I've just shat myself" seat taint pad in their shorts?!?
Haha well I feel less goofy than having a dumb car.
I do not like cars. Glad I got rid of my car and feel much happier with my scooter.
It annoys me that now in 2023 we have so many vehicles that we call "scooter". I can think of three different types that fit the description.
I don't think they're talking about a rascal. And a vespa type would be in the car lane, not sidewalk.
In my country electric scooters are classified as bicycles, so they must use bicycle lane if one is available. To clarify, E-scooters like
not like electric Vespa or something. Their top speed must be limited to 25 km/h.
Shouldnt be called bike line. It should be called "faster than walking lane", "above 15km/h" lane or something. The point is, it is for objects going faser than walking. No, i dont mind.
That's an interesting thought but I'm not sure I agree. Should runners use bike lanes? I'd say it's more to do with the danger each transport poses.
A runner is very capable of avoiding people walking, and even if they were to collide the impact is minimal.
A cyclist is much less capable of dodging a pedestrian, hence why they don't belong on a pavement. Same would apply to scooters.
Cars and large goods vehicles are a threat to cyclists due to the speed disparity.
I mean theoretically, if a runner goes as fast as a bike they wouldnt interfere with each other but I get your point. A bike hitting a runner is gonna be a bad time. Maybe maneuverability is more important than speed.
Someone on a different thread explained to me that runners do this for visibility. Its still annoying though to be riding down a bike lane at 20-30 mph and all of a sudden someone is jogging the other direction. I have to remind myself that pedestrians are vulnerable road users and its actually the cars I should be ticked at, not the joggers who are just trying to avoid getting smooshed.
If you're worried about getting hit, you're not bright and flashing enough. I've never feared being hit by a car while wearing red and white strobes and a reflective vest.
Bike lanes IMO are good for anything that needs a even level surface (as long as it's not a car).
Most sidewalks I come across always seems to ramp up and down for driveways. I would even say a mobility scooter or even a wheel chair is perfectly acceptable in a bike lane. Most sidewalks are way to narrow unfortunately.
People really shouldn't be in a bike lane on a wheel chair when there's a sidewalk.
Highly depends on the quality of the sidewalk. While I love the aesthetic of my neighborhood much of the sidewalk is barely maintained brick and cobbles. Wheelchairs are safer in the road in many areas.
You need to go to Lubbock. And then it's on Broadway, right new Avenue N.
Now you know the way to Narrow.
It doesn't bother me unless you go super slow, which is rare.
You should not be on the sidewalk so, if there is a bike lane, where else would you be?
So long as youâre going the right direction of traffic I see no problem. Although every single person I encounter on an e-scooter in the bike lane is going the wrong direction so we might have a problem.
Ew that just would feel so wrong. Maybe it's mostly people that never drove? I actually got rid of my car in favor of e scooter cause where I go is super close and it's nice not owning a liability.
I came here to write the same thing. Why do they do that?
15mph is usually at where ebikes are limited to aswell. Not many cyclists are passing me at those speeds.
Nope. They can't go into the swells. The salt water will wreck them.
For me, bike lanes should have a weight limit (<100lbs / ~50kg or so). It seems like you're talking about the handlebar scooters as opposed to vespa scooters. Those are fine in my opinion. You're going fast enough to not cause a traffic jam and you're smaller than a bike, so you're not taking up any more space. In my city, the eScooters are usually faster than most bike commuters.
Not legal transport in my country. BUT out of the choices of road, pavement or cycle lane, escooters are at less risk and are less danger in a cycle lane.
In my mind and as a cyclist , cyclists would be more likely to manage the presence of scooter riders than motor vehicles or pedestrians.
Scooters are fine with me. What I can't stand are boneheaded joggers thinking the bike lane is some extension of the sidewalk.
Love it when they run in the opposite direction too
Fine by me, as long as you're not in a car lol
Feel free to stop by !micromobility@lemmy.world btw
NL checking in here, under the circumstances you describe you are all cool and the gang. Do not ride on the sidewalk!
I think for the most part itâs just you being a fairly faster biker than me. e-scooter or mechanical scooter/bike, itâs all the same. IIRC calistenia just allowed e-scooters to ride in the bike lane :)
In my town here in sweden like at least 25% of the bike path traffic is e-scooters, i personally use both an e-bike and e-scooter and it's lovely.
Just as long as you aren't going 30mph with a can of strongbow in one hand then sure.
To me, the key is remembering that slower traffic belongs on the right (in the US at least). So pay attention to traffic around you, travel on the vehicle side of the road rather than facing oncoming cars, and if you're passing then pass on the left (in the US) .
I'll let you know when my town gets a bike lane.How fast is it capable of going? If it's 20mph or less (same as a Class 2 e-bike, which is typically the max allowed on multi-use paths) then I'm fine with it.
15 is the max for this little one!
I'm in Canada but I would definitely say the scooters in the bike lane are no more trouble than a slower cyclist. Scoot a away!
As long as you follow the rules of the road, Iâm cool with it. The problems I have are with scooter users who ride against traffic
And personally I wouldnât want you to go on the sidewalk. Iâd rather you stay the course and let me pass as it is a bit more predictable that way
True! But I would assume you are passing me on the passing side, so I just do it so that way you can pass me by being in the bike lane, while I go more towards the sidewalk.
But yeah going against traffic in bike lane is cringe.
Even if you're going off to the side you're on, it's a distraction. It will draw my attention back to see if you've fallen, crashed, or gotten hurt. I will check my mirrors for you to see if there are additional dangers to me. I ride around bike-like objects all the time. Passing you isn't even going to be a thing that I notice. You'll get a "On your left, passing" from me when I'm about to go by so you know not to do any funny business in my direction. I don't expect you to exit the lane. Heck, if you're doing 15MPH, we might ride and bullshit with each other for a bit.
I know you've basically spelled it out by using MPH and by simply being on the internet, but you might want to make it clear which country you're in. I mean, where I'm living, it's 100% ok for you to be in a bike line. Legally and socially speaking. But I doubt we're in the same place right now!
For what it's worth the UK uses mph and we've had the Internet for a little while now too, and here e-scooters are technically illegal to ride anywhere other than on private land, i.e. not on pavement, on bike lanes or on the road.
The exception is if you're in one of the cities which is operating a "trial" rental scheme, in which case the rental company will let you know where they think you should ride. But I believe even in those areas privately owned e-scooters remain illegal to use in public.
I wish there were more moderately paced e-scooters using bike lanes. I like to race them lol. Instead they're usually going against traffic and/or on sidewalks. Please avoid doing those things if you can.
Not here. More annoyed about them on side walks than bike lanes.
Speed in MPH? Totally fine then.
yes, we have a bikeshare network here in Estonia
I was behind someone on an escooter on my city's multi-use paths lately. Neither of us was supposed to be there, and no one cares, nor is the street a good option for either of us, me on my class 3 ebike and them on their electric scooter. I just make sure to stay under 20 on paths and to ring before passing anyone so i don't startle them (or their dogs). You sound very considerate, so as long as you are going the right direction, I think you should be okay.
I wouldn't mind you using the lane, especially with how considerate you are!
As long as you're matching speed of (bike) traffic and not salmoning you're fine.
Please don't go on the sidewalk, it's unsafe for both you and pedestrians.
Oh more like I slow down to walk on sidewalk if bike lane traffic is too much.
The best place for electric scooters on most city streets is in the regular traffic lanes. This is also the best place for bicycles in most cities. Unless your particular city and route have actually safe bike lanes, you're better off just acting like any other vehicle, using the regular traffic lanes, and following all traffic laws and signs.
(Yes, you're slower than cars; but so is a horse rider, and they've been allowed on city streets since long before cars existed.)
Many sorts of "bike lane" make the streets less safe for cyclists and scooter users. Lanes that are also used as streetside parking are not safe, as attempting to use them requires swerving in and out between parked cars. Narrow lanes that are adjacent to streetside parking are not safe, because of the "door zone" problem. "Lanes" that are really part of the gutter are not safe, because they accumulate debris (tire chunks, mufflers, road sand) -- all of which are much more dangerous for cyclists and scooter users than for drivers.
There do exist high-quality bike lanes in some cities. They are clearly marked and separated from the regular traffic lanes (sometimes with barriers); they don't share space with streetside parking; they often have their own traffic signals.
If there are safe bike lanes, then yes, they're an appropriate choice for electric scooters. The reason for this is that the speed, maneuverability, and vulnerability of electric scooters are much closer to those of bicycles than to either cars or pedestrians.
But if there aren't safe bike lanes on the specific route you need to take, just use the "slowest" (in most of the world, rightmost) regular traffic lane. Most of the time, be in the center of this lane, not hugging the right edge; this makes you more visible, keeps you out of the "door zone", etc. You may move right to allow faster traffic (i.e. cars, trucks, motorcycles) to pass, if it is safe to do so.
(Note: In some places, such as California, cyclists are required to stay to the right insofar as it is safe. This does not mean biking in the gutter or "door zone", because those are never safe.)
Like bicycles, electric scooters should never be ridden on city sidewalks adjacent to buildings. This is because of the risk of colliding with pedestrians coming out of building doors. Blind pedestrians, very elderly pedestrians, pedestrians pushing delivery carts, nearsighted pedestrians who have lost their glasses, and other pedestrians with limited eyesight are all legitimate users of sidewalks. Do not expect that pedestrians can see or dodge. When using pedestrian features such as sidewalks or crosswalks, both cyclists and scooter users should dismount and walk their vehicle.
"Allowed" isn't really the most important metric for me when I'm trying to work out where to ride. I'm mostly interested in being less likely to be hit by a car. It sucks for me and the pedestrian if I hit a pedestrian. It sucks if I come off my bike from hitting a piece of rubbish in the kerb and channel alongside the road. But I die if I get hit by a car who isn't paying attention when I'm in a car lane, even if I'm doing everything right.
In my city, it's illegal to ride a scooter on the road (aside from dedicated bike lanes). If there is no dedicated bike lane, then the sidewalk is where you are legally required to use the scooter.
There are bike lanes in the US?
In Seattle they are illegal to ride on sidewalks or streets signed >25MPH.
seems kinda concerning u would be drive on the sidewalk if it werent shit. the side walk is for pedastrians to who u pose a serious threat. over here ppl with e shooter always take the bike lane or road (like a bike). after all they are a lot closer to a bike than a pedestrian
Reading the comments I think Iâm in the minority but you did ask so Iâll be candid and honest. Iâll also try my best to be respectful.
E-bikes and e-scooters drive me nuts. They can definitely be an annoyance, and sometimes a safety concern in bike lanes due to the fact that most riders of these electric machines are new to riding on the road, but thatâs not even what makes me upset.
I just donât get why people donât invest in a good, correctly fitted bicycle. They are cheaper (often by an order of magnitude or two), easy to maintain, keep you healthy, use standardized, readily available parts, will never go obsolete, donât need a charger, donât contribute to e-waste, and are completely ubiquitous. I just donât get why people donât ride bikes. They are so amazing! Ever since I was a kid I have been completely obsessed, and now well into my thirties I am still a total nerd about bikes. I donât think there is anything better than a good bike ride.
The part that confuses me the most about e-bikes is the serviceability. Who is fixing these things? All of the bike mechanic/nerd friends of mine wonât touch them with a 10 foot pole. Do bike mechanics now have to familiarize themselves with high voltage lithium ion batteries? Is there a standard for these batteries? If a manufacturer decides to go proprietary, and then decide to stop making e-bikes, or goes bankrupt, is your e-bike now e-waste? The whole thing makes me confused as to why we tried to fix a problem that was not a problem. Bikes just work.
I think a lot of people have bad experiences riding bikes because their last experience was with an uncomfortable, poorly sized, heavy bike. But the feeling of riding a light, correctly sized, comfortable bike is truly divine. In my opinion itâs on par with good sex.
BTW - of course there is a good reason for some seniors or people with disabilities to use something like this, but that is not the target that I am referring to.
So when I see an e-bike or an e-scooter I get upset on principle. And then when they do something dangerous like speed past me or ride the wrong direction in a bike lane I become infuriated. But maybe the world is changing and I should to. But I tell you what I am not ready for bikes to be replaced with e-bikes.
You're just wrong about ebikes. First, many riders are veteran cyclists. Second, many people are choosing an ebike over a car, not an ebike over another bike. Hills and sweat are major factors in our lives, especially on the way to work. Third, serviceability is often handled by the manufacturer. Customers of course need to pay attention that when considering what brand to purchase.
So ... your rant is fine for a rant, and I feel you about dangerous speeding objects flying by, but please take the above facts into consideration.
Thanks. Can you clarify which part about e-bikes I am wrong about? I mostly just stated that they confuse me.
Would you also mind providing me with some more information about how the manufacturer fixing their own product work? Is it like an iPhone in that only some people with a special license can do it? Are there some parts the user is expected to fix, and others they are meant to send back? What about general tune ups? What happens when the manufacturer goes out of business? What happens if they are not situated in your city? Will they be able to replace a battery in 20 years from now? 50 years from now?
FWIW I live in the prairies so hills donât exist where I am from. I get why some people would prefer some assistance for a hill. But some wisdom I gained when I lived in a hilly village: what goes up must come down.
As for sweat, I guess if you have a job where you have to present a certain way, I get it. Personally, I just pack an extra shirt and bring deodorant. Sweating is good for you!
Youâre right: e-bikes > cars. If every driver got on an e-bike I would be ecstatic. But my point is that if you spent as much on a traditional bike as you did on an e-bike you would have a machine that would outlast your lifetime and be much easier to ride than you may imagine. Riding a good bike isnât that much harder than an e-bike.
On a side note, Iâm a little bummed I got downvoted. Usually a downvote means you are being toxic or are not contributing to the conversation. Am I being rude? I just feel passionate about bikes.
Where I live, I have hills, big hills in every direction. I own both types of bike, a rad runner 6 for long, fast rides from my house, and then 20 miles up into the mountains along back roads.
I have a road bike that I bought when I couldn't really afford it, and paid about 1,000 for it. It's a tomasso. It's ok. I wish I had a trek, or a specialized hybrid road with the slightly thicker tires than the tiny ones my road bike has. I can't really afford those.
I use the RAD bike more for cardio, generally leave it in pedal assist 2 or 3 and just try to get a quick workout during lunch time. I take the other plain road bike out with a cycling club locally one or two nights a week. I don't own a car, and I work from home. Biking makes me happy, but I get lazy when it's really hot, so I ride the e-bikes more when it's hot.
I'm 45. It's not as easy as 45 to build muscle back up and get superfit in a short amount of time. The e-bike helps with cardio and keeps me excited about taking a quick spin without getting totally smoked by all of the hill climbs it takes to get out of my neighborhood, much less through the foothills of the smokies and Appalachians.
You asked for clarification, and I'm happy to clarify, but I'm not sure what parts were not clear. What confuse you in what I wrote?
When I researched and purchased my e-bike, I went to a bike chain shop and asked them about the maintenance question. They explained that most forms of maintenance on any bike are the same as you have on a regular bike, which is the kind of thing that people can often do at home and any old bike shop can do. They also explained that when there are parts of the motor or battery that malfunction, sometimes their chain can fix it in the store, and sometimes they have to send the bike to the manufacturers fix it shop. I live in a big city so that's not a major concern, but it could be a concern for you. I also made sure to choose a brand that's owned by a very large company that is unlikely to go bankrupt in the near future. This all depends on the manufacturer so you'll want to do serious research before making any purchases, and you certainly cannot expect to find generic answers that will address all cases.
Another point to consider is the lifetime of a regular bicycle. Before I bought an e-bike I had a road bike and I treated it fairly well and did routine maintenance, but it finally fell apart in major ways after 10 years. Of course I could have fixed it, but buying all of the parts that needed replacing and paying for labor would have been more expensive than buying a new bike. Of course each person's bike will have a varying lifetime depending on luck and many other factors, but I don't suppose many people would get 20 years of daily use out of a bicycle.
As for the down votes, perhaps it was the general tone of the post. What was your aim in writing it?
What was I trying to get across in my original comment? Like I said at the beginning: a candid, honest, respectful take on the question OP asked. I was aware my opinion was in the minority. I wasnât confused about your comment, I am confused about e-bikes in general. I am getting less confused now though.
Iâm surprised to hear your bike lasted only 10 years. I am certain that as long as it hadnât suffered a fatal crash, if you had brought it to a community bike shop (if you live in a big city I can almost guarantee there are several to choose from) then you could have had it repaired for dirt cheap. CBSs are volunteer run and have parts donated and are a fantastic way to get educated about bicycle repair. In fact, a lot of the parts â especially frames â that CBSs get are from landfills, so itâs likely that if you threw your 10 year old bike away, itâs been either stripped for parts, or someone rebuilt it. As a volunteer myself, 10 year old bikes are a gem and are considered ânewâ.
Not long ago I finished rebuilding my grandfatherâs bike which he bought in the 1930s. It runs like itâs brand new. I was able to take apart every single piece, clean it, and put it back together freshly lubed. I only had to replace the spokes, tubes, chain, and tires, all of which are considered disposable. Many of the bikes that Iâve ridden are older than me (I was born in the 80s) and when I pass them down to their next owner -sometimes a thief- theyâre in much better shape than when I bought them originally. I just donât see that happening with e-bikes and that makes me sad, and admittedly sometimes angry.
Having to send parts back to the manufacturer is a big red flag for me. Is the manufacturer obligated to continue to repair these parts forever? Think about how upset people get about John Deere, Tesla, or Apple, and how they make it nearly impossible to repair an object without going to them? How is this different? Centralized repair is almost always a disaster. To clarify what I am confused about: why isnât this aspect of e-bikes talked about more? Cycling and bicycle maintenance tend to go hand in hand, but it is not something talked about in e-bike circles, as far as I am aware. Is e-bike jailbreaking a thing?
I will say, though, after reading some of the comments, including yours, I am starting to get the appeal. I know that theyâre not for me, but I can understand why some people are drawn to e-bikes, and can see the vision that e-bikers might have when they get on their e-bike. But until there is a way to ensure that every e-bike can be repaired at home, I will be sad about the expensive e-waste that will inevitably be created as a result of companies obfuscating their patents with proprietary parts and software. The right to repair is something often overlooked for a shiny new toy, but when the time comes to have to throw away that toy because a company considers a part to be âantiquatedâ (the word Apple used to describe my at-the-time 5-year-old laptop that they refused to fix, and whose part was completely unavailable on the internet) I think people may start to feel differently about the industry.
My country does not have community repair shops in accessible locations, at least not in most cities. I can do small routine maintenance myself, but major things involve the bike shop. The issues you mention are indeed big ones. Of course some consumers do their research, and others donât.
A small point but a legit one. I have two e-scooters and I like them a lot. One point on cost, the cheaper one was around $700 and is a phenomenal commuter. The other one is still a commuter, but with more powerful motors for my very hilly area. That one was around $1400. There are mid ranges bikes (in the total scale of bikes) that cost what both my scooters do together.
In this way, e-bikes and e-scooters should be seen very differently imo.
My daily driver bicycle cost $150CAD, is older than I am, and I have replaced almost all of the out-of-date parts for modern parts for a few more hundred bucks. All well under $500CAD, including my Honjo fenders. A lot of the parts I got for free or a few bucks at my local community bike shop.
Any bicycle more than $1500 is for high performance or enthusiast riding and the average commuter has no need to consider purchasing that. I also own a Marinoni (hand built in Montreal by an Italian world renowned frame builder) with full Campagnolo Record (read: top spec) components and it cost $2500 CAD. Sure, there are bikes worth more than that, and for good reason, (my pro-cyclist friend rides a $12000 bike) but if youâre not competitive (or a dentist) there is no point.
My point being that $500 is more than enough to get you a very nice bike, as long as you are willing to buy used and put some TLC into it.
What I'm saying is that $500 is enough to get you a brand new e-scooter that will go similar-to-bike speeds with no deal hunting, no mods, and a warranty. They're also foldable, portable on to most public trans (inside) or into "the office", and have virtually no maintenance.
No hate on bikes. I have a couple of very nice bikes (not as nice as that Marinoni to be fair). But let's not act like you're reliability getting places for <$500. And even if you do, not everyone can. Solutions need to be repeatable.
Edit: also to be fair, I am talking $500 USD. But if you go with a used scooter here you could probably do around $500 CAD equivalent.
Had a good bike. It was in my bike shed pretty much unused for years. Bought my first e-bike some years ago and sold my car some time ago after not using it.
I live in Finland close to city centre with a shopping center nearby, so e-bike covers most of my needs. Occasionally I need to rent a car or loan one from a friend. I ride my e-bike throughout the year. Just need to replace the tires with studded tires for winter and drive a bit more carefully when there is ice/snow. I am pretty sure my e-bike I actually keeps me in better shape than the good regular bike I had, that I kept in the shed.
9km (6miles) to city center to the office, and it takes me 21min to get there on an e-bike (could not be arsed to commute with regular bike as there are quite a few ascends and descends). Bus 31min and car would be around that as well.
Service is not a problem either. Any bike shop fixes them here at least and there are specialized shops for e-bikes as well if you have something more exotic or think you need a specialized one. Most of the bikes here are fitted with Bosch or Shimano systems anyway so there is not much need for specializing.
Granted, I am closer to a senior than a teenager.
To the OP: We have a ton of e-scooters here. Both rental ones (multiple operators) and private ones and I do not mind them on a bike lane. We both are limited to 25kmh (15mph) assist, but I do go a bit faster as I can still pedal where they can not. Infact, it is also the law that they need to use bike lane if one is available. They are not to use sidewalk. They are analoguous to bikes in our road law.
Bigger problem than scooters on the bike lane are the pedestrians on the bike lane in the city centre at least. People walking with their noses on their cell phones not paying attention to the divider and just walking in the middle of the very well marked bike lanes.
You can't be worse than the bicyclists, go for it.
Please stay off the sidewalks.