If my 3D printer has a problem, it's not working properly.
When my 2D printer throws a fit, it's because it's doing its job of being a vicious piece of shit perfectly.
Important difference.
3D printer: failed the print because you tried to print a whole ass gun in 30 minutes.
2D printer: failed the print because you tried to print a picture of a duck and the DRM detected it as a copyrighted image.
bamboo labs i'm fucking watching you if you add DRM to your printers i'm shooting up your warehouse
The thing is, we definitely could have 100% reliable printers with good reparabilty, but capitalism gotta capitalism
Just get a color laser printer, learn how to refill toner carts and buy or flash the chips. Even a monkey can do that! /s
Scraping those fucking chips off the cartridges like a crackhead scraping resin is a nightmare.
My last flash was a random ass script I found on github and 3 alligator clips one the chip pads to reset it, jabky af but felt soooo nice being able to reset it on my own.
we have nailed 2D printers. enshittification in the name of profits ruined them. i recommed epson eco-tank printers by the way. no subscription and one 10€ bottle lasts for hundreds of pages.
Well, lets not forget hidden codes on printed paper so rhey could be traced back to a specific device. Thats not really nailing it since that was before enshittification.
You're acting like that wasn't a feature specifically added... That's textbook enshit
Some 3D printer companies tried enshittifying, like DaVinci. Fortunately, they got out maneuvered by companies making printers that were almost cheap garbage, but just good enough, like Creality.
A lot of that has to do with open sourcing the designs, and that it doesn't take a major research arm to design a 3d printer. Getting a 2d printer to align ink to 300dpi is pretty difficult, and even more so with color. 300dpi isn't even that impressive. That industry is tied up in patents and trade secrets, and it's difficult for a new competitor to emerge. Conversely, I know people who designed top notch 3d printers out of their personal workshop.
what did davinci try doing, I think I've heard the name like one or twice and never again
hey, leave my ender 3s alone. they're trying their best. honestly, these machines are unstoppable if you're willing to spend money on spare parts every once in a while. my 3 pro can print TPU with the stock bowden setup and an upgraded extruder.
People often shit on the cheap Creality printers, and sure, the quality control is not great (and don't expect any customer support), but I'm having significantly fewer problems with my Ender 3 V2 at home than we are at work with our Snapmaker 2.0 A350 (costs about 5-10 times at much).
I've had my V2 for a few years, and after getting a textured PEI spring steel build plate and changing the bed springs, it's been super reliable and consistent. No other upgrades needed so far.
Isn't it the printer that brick itself when the purge-sponge is ultimately soaked with ink ?
mine has worked for years, and it went through 2 refills without issue. even if it did, cleaning a sponge sounds like easy maintenance.
That one is a hard limit. Changing does not clear the error. Tho people have hacked around it if I remember correctly.
there is a way to clean the sponge and reset the counter with 3rd party software. epson could have just put a menu option to reset that into the printer. but they might have already solved that problem. my printer is way newer than the ones i saw articles and videos about.
10$ every 18.000 pages sounds like a good deal though.
I rarely print anything but when I do it is almost always documents.
I bought a brother laser printer. It's only black and white but it has been flawless on every device I want to print from. I expect the starter cartridge to last me at least another year and any replacement will have a larger capacity.
The ink jet that got replaced would have had at least 3 cartridge changes by now and those easily cost more than what I spent on the laser printer.
It's funny because 3d printers are cheaper to purchase, maintain, and supply for
Yeah, but try printing out your kid's book report on one.
Totally doable, use a multicolor printer and print it like 3 layers thick - you'll get thin flexible plastic sheets.
Not actually practical, but totally doable lol
Just do a midprint filament swap... Looking at getting into TPU at the moment, it might actually be a fun way to have my kid hand something short in. 3 layers of white, 0.12mm per layer, swap to black and print 3 layers more. I'd be concerned about stringing and delamination. But it's pretty close to the heated bed, so mostly stringing. Fuckit we're going to try!
Your now going to do this and report back right?
Actually, I was going to yesterday. But I will try to get to it this weekend. Am becoming a bit worried about warping though...
Engineering Method my friend
Easy enough to convert it to a pen plotter. You can 3d print the attachment first, then use it to have it move a pen around with G-code.
3d print it onto a plastic tablet like you're sending it to Ea-nāṣir
Totally could
You'd need two filament colors, and it would take a while just to do one page. If it's a five pager then it could take hours. And then you'd have to turn in a big stack of plastic slabs. If you accidentally print a typo-
... Yeah, point taken
Get that extra credit!
With how much more reliable and easy to use 3d printers are, I'm saying we need to move on to 4d printers
Yeah, 3D printer stuff has lots of open source and open hardware going on so its a big improvement over 2D in that aspect
Page comes out decaying, crumbling, “send help” message scrawled across it because you forgot to refill the time dilation cartridge
I've never had a driver problem with my 3D printer
Can I just 3D print my documents?
I mean you could. It would be slower more expensive and less practical than inkjet or laser printing, but there is nothing keeping you from fixing a piece of paper in the 3d printer and have it "write" on it with the molten plastic.
See...I was imagining you'd 3D print the whole thing: paper with text
This but mirror image it then put ink on it and press it on to paper.
Print the text as holes in a sheet and spray paint it onto the paper
Well hey then you have a 3D photocopier.
Actually, the problem isn't that we haven't nailed 2D printers. The problem is we have. Which is why they have to do artificial bullshit like the LOW CYAN thing to make money selling you ink that you do not actually need.
Yeah. If you get a high-end kyocera or other office printer, that bad boy will print 30k pages a year without complaint. It will cost you $800-$15,000 but it wont make your life hell.
If you spend $79.95 on a hp inkjet, you curse yourself.
This is the way. If you just need B&W, a decent $200 laser printer will last forever on one cartridge. I've had my Brother printer for 10 years or so and only replaced the toner twice.
My dad keeps replacing his printer when he needs a new ink cart because it's actually cheaper to buy a new printer than ink for the printer he keeps buying. 😵💫
I rescue commercial laser printers that are being disposed of by companies, service and refurbish them and resell them. Partly for money, partly to keep them out of landfill.
This makes me and your dad arch-rivals 😬
I once got an A4/A3 colour laser multifunction, which normally retails for $12k, for $80. All that was wrong with it was a faulty door sensor. I just cut the wires and joined them together permanently. Used it for 3 years then sold it for $500. Never even needed to replace the toners
Every time I have tried to get him to buy a good printer, I get the same response:
"I don't print enough to need that."
🤦♂️
That's not necessarily true. Generally the cartridges shipped with the printers aren't filled entirely, or are otherwise smaller than separately bought ones.
Does Kyocera have Linux drivers?
Yes, these are listed in their product page
And I'm over here, with a laser printer, laughing at everyone's "printer not working" issues. Hasn't let me down ever and is a speed demon.
And I'm over here, with a laser printer with 20 year old HP inkjet printer, laughing at everyone’s “printer not working” issues. Hasn’t let me down ever and is a speed demon. but the high-DPI setting takes 20 minutes per A4 page to create near-laser quality.
Laser printers are definitely the way to go, but still not 100% without problems. Every once in a while I get some bullshit messages about my magenta toner not being compatible, but unplugging it for a minute seems to fix it.
Which one you got?
A Brother, no idea what model or anything, googled a bit and took the most recommended color one
From what I've heard, even inkjet Brother printers are good.
Inkjet sucks when you use it for anything other than regular work. Most people need to print out a few pages each month, maybe a package label for a courier or sth. Inkjets tend to dry out and stop working if you use them that way
There's good inkjets. They cost over $500, sometimes over $1000. They exist and serve a niche.
The problem is we deliberately make everything wrong so that it breaks. You can't buy a good product once capitalism gets into full swing, because everything that justified its existence was a lie and the only thing that matters is money - not the world, not the people, just this fake paper bullshit that isn't really worth anything and is just a status symbol that allows you to buy more status symbols.
When most people use the word removedry, this is the sort of thing they're describing, not gay people. The word was evolving in this direction before everyone decided to pull a "satanic panic" on it.
edit: lmfao the word is autoremoved, case in point. why we doin so much censorship here? reddit is not a model to follow
What is the word? Can you s-p-@-c-3-i-t-o-u-t?
Probably the Brit synonym for stick or smoke
I'm a Brit and I can't figure out what word is a synonym for both stick AND smoke. Am I regarded?
I'm being willfully obtuse.
Don't think: Where there's smoke, there's fire
Instead think: Found my way upstairs and had a smoke And somebody spoke and I went into a dream
Ohhhhh I gotcha. Thanks for linking it to Wikipedia! I think I got confused because I didn't see the relation with stick, and I feel like the abbreviated form of the word used to describe a cigarette is quite an outdated term now.
Honestly when you mentioned smoke, I was thinking of it as a noun with the second context you mentioned. But not being a tobacco smoker myself, the devil's lettuce popped into my mind instead.
i think the problem is that "smoke" here is also slang
think like smoke, the verb
or even better, the gerund
you might be retired
I thought only lemmy.ml did that, is the cancer spreading to other instances?
My 3D printer works better than my 2D printer
Which is exactly why you should use your 3D printer as a 2D plotter to print things.
Haha. It sounds like it’d work for low volume prints. Imagine waiting hours for a stack of paper to print.
In my 10 years of being a High School Robotics teacher i find that my group has less problems with the 3d printers than the 2d printers.
Colour laser printers have been around for long enough that they're a decent value. If you buy cheap HP inkjet slop, don't blame capitalism when they try to wring you for more money
I have one of these at work. It throws a fit roughly 5 times a day.
One occasional issue is that it claims it has a blockage, it doesn't, it wants you to open and close one of the doors.
Then do what it wants smh
I serve the printer overlord
I wonder how right-to-repair will change the printer market.
Probably why they are fighting it so hard
The irony is that making an Open Source 3D Printer is far more accessible and affordable than making an Open Source 2D printer.
No, 2d printer tech is fine. It's the ink scam cycle for them that are the problem. There's literally no functional reason they couldn't all use the exact same few cartridges. Capitalism ruins everything.
Capitalism RUINED the printer
we should have stopped making new printers after the HP LaserJet 4, it's all been downhill since then
Resin printers are the laser printers (in a few cases, literally) of the 3D world.
Filament are the inkjets, super likely for something to go horribly wrong because of a tiny miscalculation.
Yeah except the ink is super toxic and will make your room smell awful and give you cancer for touching the final product for resin printers which generally isn't true of your book report
Printer toner isn't exactly healthy or good smelling either
But it gets fused to the paper really nice making it water resistant even. Your room does end up smelling like ozone though.
Theres nothing inherently wrong with traditional 3D printers though? You can get high reliability from multiple printers on the market.
"Let's add one more D, that'll fix all the reliability issues!"
I think we'll have to multiply them, not add a D.
When we get 6*D^2 printers, that's when everything will be good.
cyan low sweet chariot
Carmack, drop that Meta already, it's time for a 2,5D printer!
PC LOAD LETTER …is still a thing….
What's stopping you from making a bit of software to translate text to single layer 3d prints onto paper?
I once had to boil ink cartridges
Did it work?
It did!
What was the goal of boiling them?
Made the ink run. Was a brand new cartridge and nothing was coming out so google told me to boil it and voila
2d printers are hellspawns. Period.
My recommendation for everyone on printers is to buy the cheapest new one you can find them at the first problem trash it and buy a new one. They are made so poorly it's not worth the headache.
That only promotes waste
Buy a costumer-respecting printer. It's that simple.
Which do you use?
I didn't buy it (yet), but I've heard that the Brother printer is good. They respect their costumers and allow you to install 3rd party ink cartridges.
My folks had a brother printer a couple years ago. Not terrible, but also nothing to write home about. Maybe that's good for a printer brand though lol
Epson Eco-Tanks if you want to print pictures
Else Brother Laser/LED, and order the pictures you want in print from a webshop.
Yea, if there's anything the world needs it's more e-waste!
I feel like this is the reason we have this problem in the first place
If my 3D printer has a problem, it's not working properly.
When my 2D printer throws a fit, it's because it's doing its job of being a vicious piece of shit perfectly.
Important difference.
3D printer: failed the print because you tried to print a whole ass gun in 30 minutes. 2D printer: failed the print because you tried to print a picture of a duck and the DRM detected it as a copyrighted image.
bamboo labs i'm fucking watching you if you add DRM to your printers i'm shooting up your warehouse
The thing is, we definitely could have 100% reliable printers with good reparabilty, but capitalism gotta capitalism
Just get a color laser printer, learn how to refill toner carts and buy or flash the chips. Even a monkey can do that! /s
Scraping those fucking chips off the cartridges like a crackhead scraping resin is a nightmare.
My last flash was a random ass script I found on github and 3 alligator clips one the chip pads to reset it, jabky af but felt soooo nice being able to reset it on my own.
we have nailed 2D printers. enshittification in the name of profits ruined them. i recommed epson eco-tank printers by the way. no subscription and one 10€ bottle lasts for hundreds of pages.
Well, lets not forget hidden codes on printed paper so rhey could be traced back to a specific device. Thats not really nailing it since that was before enshittification.
You're acting like that wasn't a feature specifically added... That's textbook enshit
Some 3D printer companies tried enshittifying, like DaVinci. Fortunately, they got out maneuvered by companies making printers that were almost cheap garbage, but just good enough, like Creality.
A lot of that has to do with open sourcing the designs, and that it doesn't take a major research arm to design a 3d printer. Getting a 2d printer to align ink to 300dpi is pretty difficult, and even more so with color. 300dpi isn't even that impressive. That industry is tied up in patents and trade secrets, and it's difficult for a new competitor to emerge. Conversely, I know people who designed top notch 3d printers out of their personal workshop.
what did davinci try doing, I think I've heard the name like one or twice and never again
hey, leave my ender 3s alone. they're trying their best. honestly, these machines are unstoppable if you're willing to spend money on spare parts every once in a while. my 3 pro can print TPU with the stock bowden setup and an upgraded extruder.
People often shit on the cheap Creality printers, and sure, the quality control is not great (and don't expect any customer support), but I'm having significantly fewer problems with my Ender 3 V2 at home than we are at work with our Snapmaker 2.0 A350 (costs about 5-10 times at much).
I've had my V2 for a few years, and after getting a textured PEI spring steel build plate and changing the bed springs, it's been super reliable and consistent. No other upgrades needed so far.
Isn't it the printer that brick itself when the purge-sponge is ultimately soaked with ink ?
mine has worked for years, and it went through 2 refills without issue. even if it did, cleaning a sponge sounds like easy maintenance.
That one is a hard limit. Changing does not clear the error. Tho people have hacked around it if I remember correctly.
there is a way to clean the sponge and reset the counter with 3rd party software. epson could have just put a menu option to reset that into the printer. but they might have already solved that problem. my printer is way newer than the ones i saw articles and videos about.
10$ every 18.000 pages sounds like a good deal though.
https://youtu.be/sDsdLoaMX-w?si=KyoMarW-1rwYZURY
I rarely print anything but when I do it is almost always documents.
I bought a brother laser printer. It's only black and white but it has been flawless on every device I want to print from. I expect the starter cartridge to last me at least another year and any replacement will have a larger capacity.
The ink jet that got replaced would have had at least 3 cartridge changes by now and those easily cost more than what I spent on the laser printer.
It's funny because 3d printers are cheaper to purchase, maintain, and supply for
Yeah, but try printing out your kid's book report on one.
Totally doable, use a multicolor printer and print it like 3 layers thick - you'll get thin flexible plastic sheets.
Not actually practical, but totally doable lol
Just do a midprint filament swap... Looking at getting into TPU at the moment, it might actually be a fun way to have my kid hand something short in. 3 layers of white, 0.12mm per layer, swap to black and print 3 layers more. I'd be concerned about stringing and delamination. But it's pretty close to the heated bed, so mostly stringing. Fuckit we're going to try!
Your now going to do this and report back right?
Actually, I was going to yesterday. But I will try to get to it this weekend. Am becoming a bit worried about warping though...
Engineering Method my friend
Easy enough to convert it to a pen plotter. You can 3d print the attachment first, then use it to have it move a pen around with G-code.
3d print it onto a plastic tablet like you're sending it to Ea-nāṣir
Totally could
You'd need two filament colors, and it would take a while just to do one page. If it's a five pager then it could take hours. And then you'd have to turn in a big stack of plastic slabs. If you accidentally print a typo-
... Yeah, point taken
Get that extra credit!
With how much more reliable and easy to use 3d printers are, I'm saying we need to move on to 4d printers
Yeah, 3D printer stuff has lots of open source and open hardware going on so its a big improvement over 2D in that aspect
Page comes out decaying, crumbling, “send help” message scrawled across it because you forgot to refill the time dilation cartridge
I've never had a driver problem with my 3D printer
Can I just 3D print my documents?
I mean you could. It would be slower more expensive and less practical than inkjet or laser printing, but there is nothing keeping you from fixing a piece of paper in the 3d printer and have it "write" on it with the molten plastic.
See...I was imagining you'd 3D print the whole thing: paper with text
This but mirror image it then put ink on it and press it on to paper.
Print the text as holes in a sheet and spray paint it onto the paper
Well hey then you have a 3D photocopier.
Actually, the problem isn't that we haven't nailed 2D printers. The problem is we have. Which is why they have to do artificial bullshit like the LOW CYAN thing to make money selling you ink that you do not actually need.
Yeah. If you get a high-end kyocera or other office printer, that bad boy will print 30k pages a year without complaint. It will cost you $800-$15,000 but it wont make your life hell.
If you spend $79.95 on a hp inkjet, you curse yourself.
This is the way. If you just need B&W, a decent $200 laser printer will last forever on one cartridge. I've had my Brother printer for 10 years or so and only replaced the toner twice.
My dad keeps replacing his printer when he needs a new ink cart because it's actually cheaper to buy a new printer than ink for the printer he keeps buying. 😵💫
I rescue commercial laser printers that are being disposed of by companies, service and refurbish them and resell them. Partly for money, partly to keep them out of landfill.
This makes me and your dad arch-rivals 😬
I once got an A4/A3 colour laser multifunction, which normally retails for $12k, for $80. All that was wrong with it was a faulty door sensor. I just cut the wires and joined them together permanently. Used it for 3 years then sold it for $500. Never even needed to replace the toners
Every time I have tried to get him to buy a good printer, I get the same response:
"I don't print enough to need that."
🤦♂️
That's not necessarily true. Generally the cartridges shipped with the printers aren't filled entirely, or are otherwise smaller than separately bought ones.
Does Kyocera have Linux drivers?
Yes, these are listed in their product page
And I'm over here, with a laser printer, laughing at everyone's "printer not working" issues. Hasn't let me down ever and is a speed demon.
And I'm over here,
with a laser printerwith 20 year old HP inkjet printer, laughing at everyone’s “printer not working” issues. Hasn’t let me down everand is a speed demon.but the high-DPI setting takes 20 minutes per A4 page to create near-laser quality.Laser printers are definitely the way to go, but still not 100% without problems. Every once in a while I get some bullshit messages about my magenta toner not being compatible, but unplugging it for a minute seems to fix it.
Which one you got?
A Brother, no idea what model or anything, googled a bit and took the most recommended color one
From what I've heard, even inkjet Brother printers are good.
Inkjet sucks when you use it for anything other than regular work. Most people need to print out a few pages each month, maybe a package label for a courier or sth. Inkjets tend to dry out and stop working if you use them that way
There's good inkjets. They cost over $500, sometimes over $1000. They exist and serve a niche.
The problem is we deliberately make everything wrong so that it breaks. You can't buy a good product once capitalism gets into full swing, because everything that justified its existence was a lie and the only thing that matters is money - not the world, not the people, just this fake paper bullshit that isn't really worth anything and is just a status symbol that allows you to buy more status symbols.
When most people use the word removedry, this is the sort of thing they're describing, not gay people. The word was evolving in this direction before everyone decided to pull a "satanic panic" on it.
edit: lmfao the word is autoremoved, case in point. why we doin so much censorship here? reddit is not a model to follow
What is the word? Can you s-p-@-c-3-i-t-o-u-t?
Probably the Brit synonym for stick or smoke
I'm a Brit and I can't figure out what word is a synonym for both stick AND smoke. Am I regarded?
I'm being willfully obtuse.
Don't think: Where there's smoke, there's fire
Instead think: Found my way upstairs and had a smoke
And somebody spoke and I went into a dream
According to Wikipedia its also a meatball.
Ohhhhh I gotcha. Thanks for linking it to Wikipedia! I think I got confused because I didn't see the relation with stick, and I feel like the abbreviated form of the word used to describe a cigarette is quite an outdated term now.
Honestly when you mentioned smoke, I was thinking of it as a noun with the second context you mentioned. But not being a tobacco smoker myself, the devil's lettuce popped into my mind instead.
i think the problem is that "smoke" here is also slang
think like smoke, the verb
or even better, the gerund
you might be retired
I thought only lemmy.ml did that, is the cancer spreading to other instances?
My 3D printer works better than my 2D printer
Which is exactly why you should use your 3D printer as a 2D plotter to print things.
Haha. It sounds like it’d work for low volume prints. Imagine waiting hours for a stack of paper to print.
In my 10 years of being a High School Robotics teacher i find that my group has less problems with the 3d printers than the 2d printers.
Colour laser printers have been around for long enough that they're a decent value. If you buy cheap HP inkjet slop, don't blame capitalism when they try to wring you for more money
I have one of these at work. It throws a fit roughly 5 times a day.
One occasional issue is that it claims it has a blockage, it doesn't, it wants you to open and close one of the doors.
Then do what it wants smh
I serve the printer overlord
I wonder how right-to-repair will change the printer market.
Probably why they are fighting it so hard
The irony is that making an Open Source 3D Printer is far more accessible and affordable than making an Open Source 2D printer.
No, 2d printer tech is fine. It's the ink scam cycle for them that are the problem. There's literally no functional reason they couldn't all use the exact same few cartridges. Capitalism ruins everything.
Capitalism RUINED the printer
we should have stopped making new printers after the HP LaserJet 4, it's all been downhill since then
Resin printers are the laser printers (in a few cases, literally) of the 3D world.
Filament are the inkjets, super likely for something to go horribly wrong because of a tiny miscalculation.
Yeah except the ink is super toxic and will make your room smell awful and give you cancer for touching the final product for resin printers which generally isn't true of your book report
Printer toner isn't exactly healthy or good smelling either
But it gets fused to the paper really nice making it water resistant even. Your room does end up smelling like ozone though.
Theres nothing inherently wrong with traditional 3D printers though? You can get high reliability from multiple printers on the market.
"Let's add one more D, that'll fix all the reliability issues!"
I think we'll have to multiply them, not add a D.
When we get 6*D^2 printers, that's when everything will be good.
cyan low sweet chariot
Carmack, drop that Meta already, it's time for a 2,5D printer!
PC LOAD LETTER …is still a thing….
What's stopping you from making a bit of software to translate text to single layer 3d prints onto paper?
I once had to boil ink cartridges
Did it work?
It did!
What was the goal of boiling them?
Made the ink run. Was a brand new cartridge and nothing was coming out so google told me to boil it and voila
2d printers are hellspawns. Period.
My recommendation for everyone on printers is to buy the cheapest new one you can find them at the first problem trash it and buy a new one. They are made so poorly it's not worth the headache.
That only promotes waste
Buy a costumer-respecting printer. It's that simple.
Which do you use?
I didn't buy it (yet), but I've heard that the Brother printer is good. They respect their costumers and allow you to install 3rd party ink cartridges.
My folks had a brother printer a couple years ago. Not terrible, but also nothing to write home about. Maybe that's good for a printer brand though lol
Epson Eco-Tanks if you want to print pictures
Else Brother Laser/LED, and order the pictures you want in print from a webshop.
Yea, if there's anything the world needs it's more e-waste!
I feel like this is the reason we have this problem in the first place