Sanders says Trump reelection would be the ‘end of democracy’
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said the reelection of former President Trump would be the “end of democracy” in an interview released Saturday by The Guardian.
“It will be the end of democracy, functional democracy,” Sanders said in the interview.
The Vermont senator also said in the interview that he thinks that another round of Trump as the president will be a lot more extreme than the first.
“He’s made that clear,” Sanders said. “There’s a lot of personal bitterness, he’s a bitter man, having gone through four indictments, humiliated, he’s going to take it out on his enemies. We’ve got to explain to the American people what that means to them — what the collapse of American democracy will mean to all of us.”
Sanders’s words echo those President Biden made in a recent campaign speech during which he said that Trump’s return to the presidency would risk American democracy. The president highlighted the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol in an attempt to cement a point about Trump and other Republicans espousing a kind of extremism that was seen by the world on that day.
He's right. Of course, this won't stop "BOTH SIDES" fans, who want fascism in America more than anything else in the world.
They are moving away from “Both Sides” and starting “Biden supports genocide.” It’s just a new way for below average people to think they’re smarter than everyone else.
Biden does support Genocide, in this particular instance. Giving him hell for it and trying to do what people can in order to save all the innocent people getting bombed and shot right now, is fine.
Trump is still infinitely worse. If you think 20,000 dead Gazans is bad, wait until you see what Trump wants to do. Last time around, he fucked up the response to a global crisis that's currently killed over a million Americans, and that was without even trying; and without any of the vengeful things he's itching to do this time around if he gets in.
Yes, I think the main issue is (sadly), I don't think we have an option that actually wants to stop the genocide. It would likely need to be handled by something other than elections, like larger protests.
America and Israel are joined at the hip. Anything less than unconditional military support is not a political position conducive to getting elected, there is intense lobbyism going on to make sure of that. Then there is also the evangelical angle that the jews must control Israel for the rapture to come, so they don’t give two shits about genocide.
Yeah. I saw the stories about protests around the world and felt guilty that I wasn't in them.
That mother fuckers incompetence is going to kill millions on millions as well as any hope for America's future. Fucking Nero while Americans burn
The salient point here that so many people are missing is that allowing Trump to be elected because of some misguided ideological purity will absolutely do nothing to protect or liberate the Palestinian people, so why even pretend to care about that, if you aren't a right wing troll? Allowing far right demagogues to usurp control of western nations will, in fact, cause untold suffering of billions. Palestinians included.
If you are an actual leftist, then it is your duty to consider this moral liability, and soak in the discomfort of the situation with the rest of us. Ideological purity does not cleanse you from this, not matter how much you wish that.
It’s my belief that the “gEnOciDe jOe” was started by full-on MAGA trolls. It’s the_Donald all over again. Started as a troll by MAGA, ended up being believed by the far left.
If Biden is such a shitty candidate that he loses to Trump, that's his fault. Man, the US left loves to eat their own so badly. "Ideological purity", my ass.
Why doesn't Biden bear any responsibility for protecting the US from a wannabe dictator? He isn't some force of nature. He has autonomy. He can make decisions. He can do the right thing.
People for whom support for genocide is a dealbreaker exist whether you understand them or not.
If Biden wants their votes, he cannot continue to support genocide.
No amount of insults or accusations will change that.
Those people are going to share some responsibility for the much worse genocide that Trump ushers in, then. They can claim it's not their fault if that happens, but they'll be lying.
No we won't. We didn't want Biden in the first place. The blame lies with every piece of shit who voted for him in the 2020 primaries.
Preemptively blaming them for the loss that centrist Democrats would prefer to having to abandon support for genocide hasn't changed the situation:
If Biden wants the votes of people for whom genocide is a dealbreaker, he cannot continue supporting genocide.
You are either a completely naive person, or a paid misinformation actor. There is no scenario on earth where Trump is any better for averting genocide. Have you not been paying attention to anything Trump has been saying? You don’t like genocide, that’s great neither do I, but abstaining from voting or voting for Trump is the most childish, foolish thing you can do in this election.
The other poster is correct. If you don’t vote, or vote for Trump, and he wins, you are partly to blame for that. Any future human rights violations are on your hands.
Well it's a good thing I'm not doing that, then. I'm voting for Biden.
Biden should not be supporting genocide. If he wants the votes of people for whom genocide is a dealbreaker, he must cease his support for genocide.
I know you don't want to hear this. But that's not changing the situation.
Then maybe don't jump to conclusions regarding people who also oppose genocide. Maybe don't sling insults and accusations, like so:
You're so keyed up that you're imagining that people who agree with you are part of an international conspiracy.
Good luck in the hellscape that's coming, then. You'll have the comfort of your explanation for why it's not your fault.
It's not going to be my fault; I'm voting for Biden.
That doesn't change the opinion of those for whom support for genocide is a dealbreaker. If he wants their support, he cannot continue to support genocide.
If centrists want to win, they need to get used to the idea that they might not always get every single thing they want. Biden may need to do something centrists don't like and cease his support for genocide.
It's not our fault because we didn't vote for Biden in the 2020 primaries. The selfish pieces of shit who did decided to fuck over progressives and leftists and now you're all mad because you can't count on us in the general? Pound sand. Stop electing procorporate trash in the primaries.
Are you under the impression that I didn't vote for Bernie Sanders in the primary? Because I did. I'm not one of the pieces of shit who fucked him over. I don't like them any more than you do.
You need to realize that there may not be a primary or general election for you or I to vote or get fucked over in for quite some time if Trump wins. If that happens, it'll be your fault, and I'll just have as much right to be mad at you as you seem to be at me right now.
Refusing to vote for Biden in the general is going to help nobody except the absolute worst and most antidemocratic of the procorporate trash. If you want to do that, you're helping them, in conjunction with the people who fucked you and me over in the primaries.
I mean I know it has nothing to do with genocide because I've had this same conversation with the same trolls for almost two decades now. Get better material.
The "Genocide Joe" shit is so obviously right wing astroturfing I legitimately cannot read it without imagining trump sitting at a computer typing with his index fingers.
To be very clear - there are some very big issues with the military support of Israel which should discussed out in the open. But doing the Trump name calling thing isn't engaging in good faith. It's obvious trolling.
>The “Genocide Joe” shit is so obviously right wing astroturfing I legitimately cannot read it without imagining trump sitting at a computer typing with his index fingers.
got some evidence for this accusation?
Evidence of me imagining how Trump types?
no, the astroturfing.
Are you asking me how I know that leftists who want Donald Trump to win are fake leftists?
Oh they’re leftists. And they’re hell bent on bringing democracy down just like Trump is- but for them, it’s because they’re throwing temper tantrums over a single issue.
So in a way/ they’re worse. Because they are doing it on purpose.
Call us fake leftists if you like but if you need our votes what you label us is irrelevant. We aren't voting for Joe Biden again. Stop voting for procorporate trash in the primaries.
i'm asking what makes you think leftists who won't vote for genocide want donald trump to win.
Which candidate are they planning to vote for that has a chance of winning?
personally I'm planning to vote for cornel west but Jill Stein can still win me back
Got it. So you want Trump to win.
no, I'll be voting against Trump
It's not obvious?
right
Surely you mean "far right".
no, i meant it's not obvious.
Opposition to genocide is an indicator that someone wants Trump to win?
If you're not skeptical of single issue leftists, then you should be more skeptical in general.
We know that there was a LOT of foreign astroturfing in 2016. And 2020. 2024 will likely repeat this trend, but armed with AI.
We've already seen one weak "it was AI and fake" argument from Roger Stone. Going to see a lot more of that this year, too.
So he careful who you trust, because they just might have an agenda.
That's certainly a convenient way to dismiss people who don't think Democrats should be supporting genocide.
It's been great watching centrist Democrats cave and capitulate endlessly over the course of decades, only to find out that the single issue they will actually hold firm on is supporting the genocide they've always wanted.
Of course they don't. But making wild accusations and insults is a lot easier than reexamining their positions.
How completely naive. Is this your first or second election? Your moral black and white approach is incompatible with the real world. A vote for a 3rd party candidate is essentially a vote for Trump in the way American elections work. That’s a fact.
This is as idiotic as the “Bernie or bust” people.
"I have serious objections to American foreign policy not being aggressive enough against genocide even when committed by geopolitical allies."
"Let me take the exact course of action that will put power into the hands that gave the particular genocidal state I'm ostensibly so upset with at this moment the Golan Heights, West Jerusalem, and significant chunks of the West Bank."
"I am a very smart person!"
Centrist Democrats become very angry at the assertion that Biden should not be supporting genocide.
I'm voting for Biden.
>I’m voting for Biden.
you don't need to tell him that. tell him your vote depends on fulfilling all your agenda items then vote quietly.
I mean, it doesn't matter how many times I say it.
Centrist Democrats see criticism of Biden and immediately start thinking of how to dismiss or abuse the critic. The more valid the criticism is, the more vitriolic centrists become. Just watch. At least one of them will ignore that I said I'm voting for Biden and act like I'm not voting or voting for Trump.
this is a strawman
If Biden doesn't want people saying the he supports genocide, he should stop supporting genocide.
When a centrist Democrat breaks out the insults, it's a surefire indicator they can't defend their positions on their merits. And since genocide is indefensible, insults are all centrists have. Not that they've ever had much else.
If your world is that black and white, you're part of the problem.
If you are willing to look the other way while the de facto head of your party is enabling genocide, you're not in a position to lecture.
I feel like genocide is pretty black and white, but if you wanna play in the 'grey area' of genocide that's your prerogative, just own it loud and proud.
It obviously goes without saying, but Biden does not support genocide.
He's selling weapons to Netanyahu which are being used to commit genocide.
That's supporting genocide.
The weapons are being used to remove Hamas. Its sickening seeing people stan hamas on here.
No one is defending Hamas when they say Israel is using too much explosive near too many civilians, you unnuanced pathetic worm of a loser.
I'm curious.
Do you think he's not supporting Israel in their genocide of Palestinians, or do you believe Israel is not committing genocide?
He should support Israel and it is not a genocide. Hamas is the worst thing to happen to Gazans
Wrong and wrong. Wow, you must be a terrible person to deny the death of tens of thousands of innocents or their innocence.
Yes, FFS. I am so tired of people falling for that garbage.
Whoa people are mad that their president is funding a genocide?? :0
Smh they should just stfu and vote. Who cares about foreigners dying
Trump didn't care about US citizens dying, or did he apologize for fucking up his covid response yet?
Trump is a fascist piece of shit.
Biden is not, and he should not be supporting a genocide.
Trump is a fascist piece of shit
Biden is a zionist piece of shit
Lmao did you think I was suggesting he's somehow better?
I just find it funny that Americans pretend like their bourgeois "democracy" isn't just a poorly veiled oligarchy where you get to "choose" between the genocidal zionazi party and the fascist party.
Neither of whom give a fuck about the working class, though one is a bit better at pretending like they do.
One side is clearly better unless you do false equivalence, look at the mortality rate of mothers in states with abortion bans and without etc.
I know this is not as edgy of a take as your both sides cuntery but there is clearly a better and worse choice for the US regardless what kind of zionazi epic words you want to use from your basement setup.
It's not like Americans don't know their system is broken, but it's not like they can fix it one day to the next, they have an election coming up where they have to choose between a shit candidate and a straight up fascist who tried to overthrow their election
Yeah I do agree people should probably still vote for the genocide party, as long as they're organizing outside the system and building class consciousness to eventually overthrow it.
Just that they shouldn't pretend like they're not voting for a genocidal zionazi.
Are "genocide" and "nazi" also "epic words"? It conveys the fact that Biden is a zionist and a nazi quite well, no? Specially when I've linked him admitting he is one.
He's backing Israel because it's what they've always done. It's a strategic alliance. It's Nathan yahoo dropping bombs on cities
Is that why Biden is such an ardent zionist?
People trying to blame one guy for everything wrong instead of blaming the capitalist system that necessitates supporting a genocidal colony for profit and expansion in the first place will never not be funny.
Take "Nathan yahoo" out of power; not much will change until Palestine is decolonized against US and Europe's capitalist interests; i.e the basic material conditions for this conflict happening in the first place are addressed.
Correct, it serves to continue to destabilize the middle east to slow down opposition to western imperialism by not letting the region unite.
How is what Americans pretend to do relevant here?
Lmao, did you think I am American?
Ah sorry, were we talking about African elections?
When did I say you were?
Oh so you just went on some rant about Americans as a reply to me even though it's not relevant at all, gotcha
Yeah sorry I thought we were talking about American elections for a second there
I think they're suggesting that what regular Americans think doesn't actually affect the results of their "democracy" so it's not actually relevant. So ig they do agree with you
But you do get how it is clear to everyone that you thought you were talking to an American otherwise your reply makes no sense?
Unless you don't get it, in which case sorry for your affliction.
Which part of my reply made you think that? I don't remember saying "you Americans" or something
Maybe it's just an issue with your reading comprehension?
So thats even worse than, you just went back to doing a both sides argument, oof
You're part of the problem.
Which problem? But I highly doubt it
Now if that ain't the pot calling the kettle black...
We should not be afraid to speak out against morally unjustifiable support for the mass killing of innocent civillians in our name, and with our tax money. That is the reality of the situation, and it is wrong. It will always be wrong regardless of who is doing the killing.
You thinking you have the more enlightened position simply because you are willing to carte blanche accept this behavior or foreign policy position from the candidate that will be better for the United States doesn't make you a genius, it makes you self-rigtheous and self-centered. Real innocent people are really dying, and your ability to shrug that off in such a smug, self-satisfied way is truly appalling.
We absolutely should be speaking out against the genocide in Gaza and the US role in it. It is horrific. And I cannot shrug it off in good conscience.
I also intend to take action to prevent things getting worse via Trump being elected again. It is possible to do both.
What I cannot fathom is the same handful of users saying over and over how they cannot vote for Biden in good conscience while refusing to acknowledge that by doing so they are effectively permitting Trump to take office--and that such an outcome will be worse for gaza and worse in many other ways. These are the same folks that somehow don't see how Republicans getting in power will significantly damage our democracy more than any time in the last half century.
Their inflexibility and refusal to genuinely engage on the topic reminds me an awful lot of the rampant astroturfing on Reddit back when. It gets exhausting seeing the same inane bullshit talking points over and over.
I can definitely appreciate that, but I'm not one of them.
Some people won't pull the lever to divert the trolley.
I will, but I don't think Dudley Do-Right is justified in tying people to the tracks just because Snidely Whiplash does.
This really isn't at all what he said, and is an extremely dishonest thing to post.
You complain that your comments fall on deaf ears, but when you accuse people of things that are blatant lies, what do you expect?
It certainly was implied though.
No it wasn't, not even in the least. It's absolutely dishonest to pretend that's what it was.
Go after him for what he actually said instead of making up things to be angry about.
Look, I don't agree with you. I found what the OP said to be smug and self-satisfying as I said. I also found it to be pointedly critical towards anybody pointing out that Joe Biden has a blind spot in supporting Israel's unethical campaign against Palestinians.
You want to ignore that element, or you don't see it that way. That's your prerogative, but don't call me dishonest because I'm not being dishonest. There's a difference between legitimate disagreement and dishonesty.
Look at the text you wrote, and the parts that I bolded.
There is a difference between legitimate disagreement and dishonesty.
Pretending that OP is giving carte blanche to genocide or shrugging that off is an outright lie. Accusing them of anything else based on that lie is also dishonest.
You either cannot or will not admit the hypocrisy of OP being hyper-critical and condensending towards people who are upset about the immoral support that is being given to kill innocent civillians, and then trying to bully them for it.
Whichever it happens to be, I no longer give a shit. Therfore, we are at an impasse. So, I'm done arguing with you as it is a waste of time. It's been real, it's been fun, but it ain't been real fun ✌️
See, I might have cared about OP's post being hypocritical or condescending. But then you went and posted something so outrageously dishonest, and when it was pointed out instead of owning up to your mistake and trying to do better, you doubled down on it and got pissy. But since you don't care, I guess that's where we end it.
You've just said it better than I've seen or said.
Thanks, but I expect my comment will mostly fall on deaf ears. I find that to be both sad, and yet entirely expected.
I will vote for Joe Biden because it is the only logical thing to do to save our democracy in the immediate term, and it is in my own self-interest. But I am also fully aware of the false dichotomy we are faced with when it comes to the support for Israel, the killing of innocent people with our tax dollars in the name of a "holy crusade" I don't believe in, and I refuse to turn a blind eye to that simply because it is psychologically convenient.
Maybe it's enough to say it
Those forkfaces wouldn't know a good-faith argument if it drugged and molested them at a GOP fundraiser.
Lmao the Guardian source article made me double take on the first paragraph:
That big B looks as if it doesn't just apply to the first line.
🅱️itching to get on with the interview,
When I try to break the ice by 🅱️asking the US Senator
🅱️motion
🅱️asking
🅱️ernie
🅿️anders
🅱️ooo
Such a Bernie response. I love him.
I just want you to know I appreciate that you quoted it correctly
If he is even allowed to run it means The Constitution is just optional.
To be clear he's not even really a Republican, he's just a rich, racist, white man - and that's a popular brand
To be clear, that's all the Republican party is about now.
That already happened in 2010 with Citizens United, and the late Justice John Paul Stevens' dissent nailed it:
I would've added,
"If money didn't influence elections, why are people spending so much on them?"
That's one part of it. This is a good read: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/america-is-not-a-democracy/550931/
The worst part about all of this is, imo, we've known what the problems are for so long now, but nothing is getting fixed and the rot is apparent. I grew up in America, but seeing what it is becoming from the outside is heartbreaking.
Yeah repeal CU
Factionalization and internal party consensus would be a precursor as well.
He's not wrong.
And still, half of America probably is like: "don't threaten me with good times".
Maybe like a third or so. Unfortunately, due to our silly system, they have an outsized say.
Voters should have never been put in this position. If we have to depend on Joe Biden and Dems to clutch out the win and save Democracy then you might as well start bracing for the worst. "Not being Trump" is low bar a dangerous way to try to win.
Not voting for the bigger evil has been the way it has been for much longer than you think. And it is on the voters. believe it or not it is actually the voters fault (the non voters fault) that it is this way. As It was also on the voters to do candidate nomination. So you can’t excuse your first neglect and then complain it’s ‘too much’ now when it is all the way at the the election phase and you just now woke up to complain you hate who was nominated for the election. So yeah it is on the voters. This part always is. It’s like a manager hiring a shit person because they didn’t bother to do a background check and then complaining ‘it’s too much responsibility’ when the shit hiree starts toxifying the work place. It’s not just a bad employee to make that situation. It’s bad manager. So voting public are just as much to blame for making this a shit show.
So what you're saying is that more people need to be politically engaged and go vote. I agree. Biden is the only choice.
He has done a pretty solid job, and has passed some good legislation. If it weren't for this whole funding Israel's horrific war crime thing, I'd have no qualms giving him more time to clean shit up.
100% correct.
If all it ever took was one bad president then democracy has already ended and it was always just a matter of time.
This reminds of the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy when it describes a planet ruled by reptiles:
[It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..." "You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?" "No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people." "Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy." "I did," said Ford. "It is." "So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?" "It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want." "You mean they actually vote for the lizards?" "Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course." "But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?" "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in.]
👆 This Douglas Adams bit is the exact situation we find ourselves in now.
It's just a matter of time til we all die, too, but that doesn't mean we need to kill ourselves now.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said the reelection of former President Trump would be the “end of democracy” in an interview released Saturday by The Guardian.
The Vermont senator also said in the interview that he thinks that another round of Trump as the president will be a lot more extreme than the first.
Sanders’s words echo those President Biden made in a recent campaign speech during which he said that Trump’s return to the presidency would risk American democracy.
The president highlighted the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol in an attempt to cement a point about Trump and other Republicans espousing a kind of extremism that was seen by the world on that day.
He’s willing to sacrifice democracy to put himself in power,” Biden said in the speech that took place near Valley Forge and on the day before the third anniversary of the Jan. 6 attack.
Biden also said that Trump’s false claims about “the 2020 election never could stand up in court.”
The original article contains 319 words, the summary contains 167 words. Saved 48%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
In fairness to the Senator, Trump also loudly and proudly says this all the time.
Bernie for pres.
Except he's not running, and is too old to run again. So do the next best thing and listen to what he's fucking saying. This is not a joke.
The U.S. was never a democracy to begin with. The Constitution decreed that only rich white males had the vote. Excluding a majority of the population makes it an oligarchy, not a democracy.
I hear this more and more all over the place. Promoted everywhere seemingly to say it doesn’t matter if everything gets torn down and the US Constitution ripped up— because it’s all BS anyways, right?
The US is a Democratic Republic. Simple As.
Actually preventing votes from being counted is the end of democracy.
The requirements to run for president are pretty clearly laid out in the constitution, you must be 35, born in the US, and have not participated in an insurrection against the United States
If someone throws away their vote on someone who is ineligible, that's their choice
then what about Silent Joe
the one who quietly sat in office while people starved on empty promises made to raise minimum wage, protect human rights and safeguard the ones we do have, to not increase funding for the military industrial complex, bolster environmental protection, reign in a militarized police force keeping the citizens trapped under their boots and citizens suffered physically and mentally in cages, expanding healthcare, journalist being silenced, and sure the list goes on and on in silence
"Not Being Trump" is not a qualification to run a country let alone move it into the current century
What about. What about. Are you saying trump is a better choice?
I actually love the "Silent Joe" line, because Trump is a notorious loudmouth. It even sounds like some playground nickname he'd come up with. Yeah, Biden doesn't do nearly enough to achieve things, but the alternative is explicitly going to make shit much, MUCH worse. Things can be unequally bad, and the gulf has only gotten bigger with an overtly fascist movement as a major player.
Do the Democrats suck shit? Yeah, no one's really denying it. But I'd rather fight against some milquetoast liberals than, I can't stress this enough, literal fascists. Democrats can be dragged kicking and screaming to do something after they feel the winds changing. Republicans will be intentionally trying to make shit worse for the vast majority of people.
It survived four years of him and will survive four more.
Your biggest problem is that there is half the country willing to elect him again. Who will they elect next? Trump is not the end point on that particular axis. They were quite prepared to march into the Capitol building. What else are they prepared to do?
Trump is a symptom. Sure, you can stop him running. Hell, he's a fat old man. Can't be long until nature takes it's course. But the country will still be sick.
Because he had no fucking idea what he was doing and no plan. That mistake won't be made a second time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
But Trump is really the glue that holds many of these people together. I don't follow conservative politics too closely but I don't see someone else that has his ability to hold the ultra-right together as he has done. Not saying there aren't a large pool of con artists that are fighting to take his place when he is gone. I think there are quite a few people that want that power and I think that is going to breed a shit show for the far right (lots of infighting).
Of course if he gets re-elected and has a favorable Congress then well established laws and political norms can and will be changed to allow for something of a monarchy which takes the above off the table. That is his family becomes the de-facto ruling family.
But if he doesn't get re-elected or has a Congress that will fight and make his tenure difficult, and when he dies I think the far-right is going to fracture with 3 or 4 new crazy people trying to take over what Trump has held together.
If US Democracy is gone, how can it be that there’s (real) elections? There will be a dictator/King at the helm. Barron William Trump is the king-in-waiting at that point.
Democracy is dead then the US Constitution is dead and all ‘rights’ revoked.
Barron Trump will turn 18 on March 20th. That will make him fair game for the press. His mother has reportedly raised him without his father's overall involvement. We have no idea what she's been saying to him about his father. I'm very interested in seeing his first public interview.
He’s been at Castle Orange a heaping helping
This is just in! Genocide Joe is not the other guy!!!!
You should know, anyone that says "genocide Joe" unironically isn't fooling anyone. It's generally seen as a conservative dogwhistle round these parts.
Genocide Joe is a nickname coined and used by progressives.
Calling it a dogwhistle is generally seen as IDF propganda around these parts.
no progressive use that term. you're being intentionally disingenuous and it's obvious to anyone.
any reasonable progressive doesn't like America's support of Israel right now but we are all very aware that drump would be worse in all of the ways. so your attitude is pointless and clearly just unnecessary agitation.
I see your username making dumb and controversial comments all the time. high time I block your trolling ass.
Label us whatever you want. I voted for Biden in the 2020 general election and I won't be voting for him again. The label is irrelevant, all that matters is if you think you need my vote. If you don't think you need it then ignore me. If you think you need it then start fucking paying attention.
right. so genocide plus fascism is better than just genocide. makes perfect sense.
Stop electing procorporate trash in the primaries. How many times do you need to learn this lesson?
way to dodge the topic
That is the topic Boomer. If you need our votes to win general elections you have to take that into consideration in the primaries. You can continue to elect procorporate trash in the primaries but no amount of finger wagging is going to make us show up for shit candidates in the general. You know exactly what game you're playing. Knock it the fuck off.
lol at calling me a boomer... why are you resorting to baseless assumptions?
and wait, you're arguing that Biden is a shit candidate vs trump? they are both shit but one can't even complete sentences against the other. this kinda renders all your points completely irrelevant.
Buddy, you clearly don't know what a primary is. Sit down and be quiet while the grownups are talking.
I thought I was a boomer. now I'm a child? if you're going to resort to derogatory assumptions at least get your story straight.
I was never talking about primaries. the post and my entire issue is with trump vs Biden. you're the one who decided to randomly bring primaries into that topic for no apparent reason.
I guess I could try to derail this by talking about how congress is toothless. but that would make me sound like a confused dufus.
America isn't even the most democratic democracy in the world tho.
How is this a counter to what he said? The second-most democratic country in the world isn't the most democratic either, it'd still be a bad thing for it to lose its democracy
America isn't even the most democratic country in the Americas, but that's clearly not the point they're making.
If the title was "...end of world democracy" you'd have a point but given how much fascistic rhetoric and policy has increased around the world since trunpism it's fair to say many countries are following the US lead here.
Yeah so maybe lets not let the Republicans fick it up even worse.
Curious! Who is?
It's usually the Nordics and New Zealand topping the rankings each year, depending on which index you ask
Sadly it feels (unsure about factual numbers) that NZ is heading to similar styles as the US in terms of politics.
Two elections ago our slightly right of centre main party used popularist Trump/MAGA style campaigning and got slammed for it.
However the latest govt has bypassed a bunch of good process (using urgency) to just repeel a bunch of stuff the previous govt put in place.
This isn't necessarily a bad thing. The most possible democracy would require every single government decision requiring a vote by its citizens.
It would be pure chaos and incompetent
I think using process is pretty important and urgency should be used when needed, not just to get a bunch of anti-the last regime policies through.
This is how I understand our governments movements. Everything they have done this with this time could have gone through proper process.
Our leader even said that his politicians were uninterested in hearing what experts in the fields think or what the longer term issues might be from the decisions.
More alarmist thinking from Bernie Sanders. But this is basically reddit so he gets jerked off here, too
Is it alarmist though? Do you think that if Trump wins the election, democracy in the US will be the same 4 years from now as it is today?
I heard all the same shit last time trump was running, too.
You didn't answer the question though.
Do you think democracy in the US is the same today as it was 8 years ago?
And do you think that if Trump wins the election, democracy in the US will be the same 4 years from now as it is today?
Nope, but hard to blame that all on one party. Democrats are useless, too. The GOP is worse. Both put up the worst possible candidates, and each new president spends their time undermining the work of their predecessor. Neither give a shit about doing what's best for their citizens. Democracy is fucked here regardless.
So it's not alarmist then. It's an accurate take.
And you got it pretty bad, time and time again Trump has been caught doing things that go agains the interest of the most vulnerable people, just one example, he was president during Covid, he handled awful, so much people died unnecessarily because of him, for his behaviour and personal interests. Something really wrong is happening in usa that this guy possibly is going to be reelected, is bad and sad.
and indeed, he did a bunch of horrid shit and we as a nation are farther right than ever. his term led to a fucking insurrection and a compromised supreme court, to israel’s fascists being stronger than before, to jamal kashoggi’s murder being swept under the rug, it heightened tension with china, gutted environmental progress and kneecapped a bunch of other agencies and departments we need to survive long term as a democracy. not to mention all the dead citizens and now staunch conspiracy mongers and things like measles making a comeback. shall i go on?
He is not wrong.
Do people still listen to the old birdie Bolshevik?
Lol. Some people still think communism or socialism is inherently bad.
no, some people know comrade birde is inherently badinsky.
Wow what an intricate, deftly-reasoned argument. I for one am thoroughly convinced.
For someone named for a philosopher, especially a philosopher who tried to create a system combining two disparate ideologies, this is a really shit take. You can't come up with an actual reason other than "I know he's bad."
He's not even a socialist. He's literally said he isn't a socialist. He's a social democrat. You don't even know the difference, do you?
Put your goddamn helmet back on.
Lol Bernie is barely to the left of center on the political scale
Bernie has shifted to the right after 2020
Sanders' name appears in a headline, and both centrist Democrats and Republicans start using identical talking points.