Still Unable to Post Bond, Trump Has Most Crazed Meltdown Yet
Donald Trump has no idea how to post bond in the fraud trial—and he’s absolutely losing it.
In just shy of a week, Donald Trump’s $454 million judgment from his New York bank fraud trial will become collectible, either by way of liquid cash or financial assets—and it has officially sent Trump into meltdown mode.
The notoriously sleep-deprived GOP presidential nominee spent the better part of Monday night shouting into the void about the massive, half-billion-dollar judgment and his apparent inability to pay it off, bemoaning being required to follow the law before being allowed to appeal the case.
“I would be forced to mortgage or sell Great Assets, perhaps at Fire Sale prices, and if and when I win the Appeal, they would be gone. Does that make sense? WITCH HUNT. ELECTION INTERFERENCE!” Trump posted Tuesday morning.
“I shouldn’t have to put up any money, being forced by the Corrupt Judge and AG, until the end of the appeal. That’s the way system works!” he added, forgetting that he’s being held to the same standards as every private citizen.
Hopefully, during repossession, they count his obnoxious branding as negative value and underprice what is being auctioned.
From my understanding, it essentially ends up with bidding for assets to get to the amount needed. Whatever the resulting high bid ends up, is the amount for that asset. So if something is valued at $500M but sells for only $200M, it only counts as $200M toward the judgment. Basically, estimated value means nothing, only what someone actually pays for it.
So actual market value.
So... What happens when it turns out he's underwater on all his properties, and they sell for less than he owes on them?
Straight to jail? Please?
He defaults on the loans. If he owns a building, has a $500 M loan on it, and it gets sold via this process, he gets no money, unless the sale goes over what he owes for the judgement. But the loan is still in place and he still owes the $500 M.
Not necessarily, but more of what someone is willing to pay at that specific moment. A lot can factor in. This being highly publicized, and with the notoriety of Trump and its assets, it can go in any unexpected direction.
That’s… market value
Kind of less, he's paying taxes on the sale too, because he's still selling it even tho he doesnt get to keep the money.
And when selling half a billion dollars of real estate, you're going to pay a lot of taxes even in America.
So the 200 million goes to the judgement, but he's paying 20-40% percent in state/federal/local taxes. And it's all gonna happen in the same calendar year while a shit ton of accountants are watching his every move.
He's going to end up having to sell a lot more than the judgement to pay his tax bill a year from now.
And that's not even getting into his loans.
Value a building at 100 million when it's worth 50
Borrow 70 million on property.
Sells for 40 and the bank needs 30 still.
There's no way out, even if the bank forgives the remaining 30, that still counts as taxable income for trump, compounding the first issue. And in that scenario, $0 is going to judgement and trump still loses the property and they move on to seizing the next on the list. He gets zero gain from the sale, but it's still drives up taxable income for him personally
trump could conceivably have a billion dollar gross income in 2024, and be completely broke with hundreds of millions due in tax.
Which is just insane.
I'll believe it when I see it.
And yet, it is just. He has been screwing people over for decades to amass what he has, and it's time he paid for his criminal (tax/loan/whatever fraud).
That’s not quite right.
If you buy something for 300m, with 200m in loans, and sell it for 250m, you pay the loan back first, and have 50m in losses. Your taxes go down.
He only pays tax on gains.
Remember the whole case is him inflating property value to get loans. Between the fire sale, and the bad loans, it’s very likely he has little to no equity. He could sell all he has and not have any money to pay the $500m (plus interest.) Which also means little to no tax burden.
But if he bought it for cheap, and got a loan on the property after the fact, or realistically, he held them for long enough then leveraged their new worth for other things, and hasn't paid any gains on the properties
He was on trial for taking loans on fake gains.
Right...
If he sells for less then he has a loan on, he still owes the money, and without the property as collateral, the lender is going to collect.
If they forgive the debt, that counts as earnings and is taxed.
So it would either force more sales to pay remaining loans, or it's forgiven and taxable income goes up
My schadenfreude is ramping up. I don't see him wiggling out.
Its possible at a firesale value it could end up being a capital loss. There wouldn't be any taxes then.
But you'd need a legit appraisal to even know if it's a loss, his appraisals are worthless
You don't need any appraisal. You only need to know the purchase price and the selling price. The difference between them is the gain or loss.
Oh, you're right. Whoops.
By that logic no one has ever paid taxes selling a used car...
They haven't. The buyer only pay sales tax, and the seller pays no tax at all. Except maybe crazy situations where it's a collectible antique that's worth way more now than when you bought it.
There is absolutely no way in the universe that little weasel didn't ask Elon for money over breakfast. No conceivable way.
Well pay taxes if you sell at a profit. Hard to say if the value of his assets increased.
No, it's still taxes.
If I buy a 50,000 car and sell it for 25000 2 years later, I'm still paying taxes.
How do you not know that?
You need to read more about how capital gain taxes work.
In your car example there would be a capital loss, so no taxes would be owed.
If you sold it for 55000, then there would be a capital gain and you would owe tax on the 5000 profit.
Here is an article that explains it relative to your example:
https://www.dmv.org/articles/income-tax-implications-of-selling-a-used-car/
The tax you pay is one the net gain, which is the amount realized less the base of the good (i.e., what you paid to acquire). I'm not a tax expert, and real estate can get really fucky with this stuff, but that's my understanding of the fundamental rules for taxation.
...
I'm not sure how to explain this any simpler.
My apologies, but if I tried again I'd just be repeating what I've just said.
Your explanation is wrong.
Here is an explanation of capital gains directly from the IRS:
https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc409
The confusion is you think it's a "gain" only if sold for more than you paid, which isn't true.
And having a loan doesn't negate gains. It's two separate things. Which is why this situation for trump is so crazy and his taxable income can balloon so much despite trump not getting any money.
I don't think explaining more would help, but since you bothered to provide a link. I took the time to show you where you were confused.
It seems the confusion is that you think whatever the total amount the item sells for is a “gain.” A gain is the profit - the difference between what you sell the asset for and your cost basis in the asset.
In your car example, the cost basis is 50000. If you then sell it for 10000, you then have a capital loss of 40000. You don’t pay taxes on the 10000 because it is not earned income and it is not a gain - it’s part of your original capital. And you obviously don’t pay taxes on the 40k loss. And since it is a car, you can’t even deduct the loss.
If you sell the car for 55000, then you have a gain of 5000 (the difference between your cost basis of 50000 and what you sold it for). You are taxed on the capital gain of 5000, not on the entire 55000.
Considering I do that yearly you don't pay taxes on 25,000 but only on profit. You will write off a percentage of a capitalized item like that per year. The only way you would pay taxes above what you have expenses is if somehow that 50,000 dollar car sells for more then 50,000. That is likely not happening.
On the other side, what if some shady entity comes in and bids $500 million for something valued at $1 million so that Trump doesn't have to sell all his shit, but then the shady entity will have Trump in their pocket as well?
So this other side you speak of is different from how it currently is? Trump sold many properties to Russian nationals at inflated prices. That was why he's already in their pockets. Nothing will change, he's already in so many people's pockets.
If that were the case, Trump would be able find someone he could use the asset as collateral for bond instead. Just like Chubb's deal for the other judgment.
"Ten million for 72 hours with Melania, Ivanka, Tiffany, and Katie Britt: my associates will make videos—in case they're needed."
Honestly in a world of AI video generators, there’s no better time to be blackmailed by video.
Yup, and if the conservatives haven't voluntarily bailed him out yet they're probably not going to be charitable in valuing his broke ass brand.
None of the rich ones want to pony up that much for nothing and the poor ones have already spent what they had on his other legal costs and "merch".
I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Trump says Mar-a-lago is worth billions so it's worth billions, right? I mean that's how it's worked for him up until now.
Except when he needs it to be worthless, then it becomes instantly worthless. He has magic Schrodinger buildings which are both the most valuable in the world and worthless at the same time. Or as we in the real world like to call it: fraud
Trump being forced to sell off his properties for what people will pay for them in order to pay off the fine for fraudulently overvaluing those same properties is just so fucking delicious.
Actually, I’m hoping they come across more of the classified files I’m sure he stole.
"Pair of ugly sneaker shoes? $10"
100 times would be 1.8 billion dollars...
4 years ago it was worth a little over half a billion when he talked to banks, and 18 to 27 million when he paid taxes.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/trump-fraud-trial/trump-tax-rep-acknowledged-much-lower-value-for-maralago-104481579?id=103642561
So I think they just took the lowest he's claimed it was worth, which explains why it pisses him off so much.
As it should be? If it's what you paid tax on, everything else clearly doesn't exist unless you admit to tax evasion.
Most of y'all are probably too young to catch the slur. I ain't typing it out.
A lot of us spent an unfortunate amount of time on 4chan, you may be surprised at how unsubtle it is to most people here
YOO WTF he just straight going with full on unedited racist slurs now?! God I hope his Secret Service detail is making bank.
-Rapist with a half billion judgement against him
I think he mispelled "Bitch Hunt." Must be
*
It laughs with me, not at me.
When Trump gets really desperate he usually commits a bunch of crimes. I wonder what’s going to happen in the next week, and what we’ll hear about a couple months from now, and how the trial will go in 2032.
The going price for the 2024 election is $464M. I hope not... But I bet somebody will pick up the tab.
I wish he would just die
No, that would be letting him off the hook too easy. i wish he had to answer for his crimes and die at age 105 in jail with not a single dime to his name, with mandatory daily therapy sessions so he can start recognizing the damage he's done and feel remorse.
I don't really care if he got "off the hook" if that happens because he's dead.
More importantly, it let's other people like him get off easy if he isn't convicted to set a precedent. I don't care if he lives or dies. I care about the rest of those snakes.
Remorse would be fatal to a man with that many horcruxes...
With the threat he poses, I'm fine with that. Pay him millions to go to Russia if it means he drops off the face of the Earth with regards to socials and politics.
I'd rather he had a Game of Thrones-esque ending before that eventuality happened. He should watch everything he ever got in life get torn from him bit by bit first, before having some totally mediocre ending on a toilet seat shitting himself.
That is how I felt about the game of thrones ending, I loved that show and the books and the I watched it all get torn away by the writers in the last season and felt like I died alone shitting on a toilet. You're right, that would be worse.
Of course he cries election interference, but just a reminder that Donald Trump could have taken a few years off of campaigning to spend time to properly defend himself in court and then run again when it was over. That was always allowed. But we all know why he insists on running right now despite the mountain of felony indictments against him. He knows he is going to lose every court case because he's guilty as fuck and wants to use the office of president to wash away these crimes he committed with a self-pardon.
The very fact that he can't post bond is proof that he is at the end of his rope. Time to pay back all the money you defrauded the people of New York, Crooked Don.
Poor guy, I feel really bad for him. Sure hope nothing else happens to ruin him. It'd be really bad if he was forced to go to jail too. On the bright side, at least he'd match the jumpsuit. Maybe he could write a script about his poor, difficult life and call it "The Color Orange."
Nah, call It "My struggle"
The last time a guy wrote about his "life's struggles" in jail, not long after a failed coup, things didn't turn out so good for us. Lets not give this magalomaniac any more ideas or access to writing materials if he ever sees the inside of a jail cell.
That's right. No crayons allowed in his cell
If the script includes how he gets discriminated against unfairly he could steal the name Orange is the new Black
I'm sure people have been making "orange is the new black" jokes for a while now.
Yes, after Obama. However the color purple, switched to orange due to persuction is new to me.
It's a good news, bad news situation.
Good news. Trump completely loses his mind, is so stark raving bonkers that he is found unable to stand trial due to mental incompetence.
Bad news. GOP runs him anyway because he hasn't been convicted of anything
There is no trial. The trial already happened, and he was found to have committed massive fraud. Perhaps the most beautiful perfect fraud people have ever seen. Many are talking about it.
Anyhow fuck him and the horse he rode in on.
He has plenty of other trials going on, including the one in Georgia and the Federal one.
Best news: I was afraid the GOP would bail him out and he'd suffer no personal consequences... it looks like the conservative billionaires told him to get fucked.
The funniest thing about Trump is that he was always desperate to be part of the Manhattan elite. He was once given a golden opportunity to get in good with them, and he blew it through his own stupidity, greed, and arrogance.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaellisicky/2020/10/03/how-donald-trump-took-down-bonwit-teller-a-fifth-avenue-landmark/?sh=34bbe2905f69
There's a guest appearance by John Barron.
I don't know if he actually did, but I always get a kick out of the idea that he dug out that old alias he had to burn in order to name another kid after himself since Don Jr was already taken. Wouldn't surprise me if someone did some digging and found someone named Eric that was mysteriously defending him at some point as an unsurfaced alias
I remember a picture of Barron and the family when the boy was about five. They in Trump's gold plated penthouse and the child is in a business suit, sitting in a tiny limo. No jet planes or spaceships for Barron!
Simply lovely
The sad news is that this is relatively sane compared to the water-defeats-magnets or the they’ll-rename-Pennsylvania-if-you-don’t-vote-for-me rants, just in the last couple of weeks.
His loss of great sums of money has likely sharpened his demented dysphasia temporarily.
Not that Oklahoma or South Carolina will not vote all out for him. Reality isn’t relevant to them.
This is a perfect time for the people that have quietly tolerated him to do nothing.
I'm a little worried this is going to galvanize his base, but it is still deeply satisfying to watch his life collapse around him, especially knowing that the criminal trials haven't even started yet.
We have to get beyond the fear of pissing off his base. The sooner we do it the better. This shit head should have been held accountable years ago, but we were worried about his base, now look at the mess. It will only get worse. Its time to get to work.
Yeah, I didn't say don't prosecute him, I said I was a little worried it might galvanize his base. It also might go the other way; it makes him look weak, and authoritarian strongmen can never look weak, plus it really dispels the myth of his vast wealth. But either way, pointing out this may be beneficial to Trump's campaign doesn't mean I said the civil/criminal trials against him should be dropped.
We're not gonna see the criminal trials before the election.
Now if he doesn't win, oh baby it's gonna be juci
It should and this whole situation should make you mad too if you were objectively looking at what is happening. You guys are fucking all of us.
He should borrow vast amounts of money from his loyal supporters: "Empty your lifetime savings accounts, I promise I'll pay everything back with interests!".
Then we'll see how much his followers really trust him when they need to put their own future on the line...
I'm not sure if this a joke or not but he has already been doing literally exactly that for like, the last 7 or 8 years.
Was he not describing his fundraising as donations so far? You donate money you don't think you need at all. But you should be able to lend money you don't need in the near future. I would bet some of his "loyal" supporters would start to doubt if they were asked to lend too much of what they own.
Great assets. Great, great assets.
good
I will Laugh my Arse off when he Loses his Properties.
LOL out loud
I'm also LOLing out loud
Russia if you’re listening… 🙏