A Hidden Variable in the Presidential Race: Fears of ‘Trump Forever’ | Undecided voters are concerned that if Donald Trump returns to the White House, he’ll never leave.

silence7@slrpnk.net to politics @lemmy.world – 619 points – A Hidden Variable in the Presidential Race: Fears of ‘Trump Forever’
bloomberg.com

It's almost like Trump tried a coup to avoid leaving office the last time around.

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Maybe the fear is because he's hinted towards that and also said that?

Really need to look at both sides here. /s

As an avoid Trump supporter, I'll give you lads some insight as to why he intended to do this. What few people know is that I actually made a jolly good show of runnin' for office back around the time The Donald was about to make america great again, but sadly my efforts didn't fall through because of the uniparty system at the time being the democrats, so my ideas never really fell through.

This is why every girl I date has to be on the alt right of the political scale and why I also join hate groups on the internet for those that do not fall into the correct side of the political spectrum. Sorry kinda lost my train of thought but yeah that's why trump is beat president IMO.

I legit cant tell if youre a troll or not cause you just use words in the entirely wrong places. Hell im not even convinced that you are a native English speaker because both paragraphs are fucking weird.

Ya know what im just gonna embrace my Redneck heritage and say I hope you piss off the wrong person IRL and mysteriously disappear only to be found in the outskirts of some backwater town after twenty years because they are building a new grocery store.

Going with them not being a troll, just the average intelligence of Trump voters.

Then they need to be strapped to a chair clockwork orange style and forced to watch mid 1990s to early 2000s kids edutainment shows until they cant think of anything else.

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Undecided voters are concerned that if Donald Trump returns to the White House, he’ll never leave.

And . . . yet they’re undecided??

I don’t . . . is this a . . . I mean . . . WHAT.

Yeah but Biden is a disappointing centrist, so clearly I don't know how choose between him and an authoritarian dictator.

You make a valid point, but the reason people are undecided is that they they have no properly informed opinions. I hate this narrative that Biden is ineffective. Biden has done a lot of good things. And where congress failed, he found a way to get shit done anyway. People don't know that because media sucks and their echo chambers don't tell them. Or alternatively, their expectation about what a president can do in one term is completely unreasonable.

And that is all while ignoring that a republican congress will hold back the entire country for years just to make sure their guy looks better. And it works! People complain about shit not getting done but couldn't tell you how their representatives voted on those things.

So yeah, pretty much what you said. They think the candidates are roughly the same, but they have no clue how what their candidates do actually affects them.

And that is all while ignoring that a republican congress will hold back the entire country for years just to make sure their guy looks better. And it works! People complain about shit not getting done but couldn't tell you how their representatives voted on those things.

And when something does get pushed past the obstructionism and helps people out, Republicans sometimes claim credit for the very thing they voted against.

Or they sue the government with some BS argument for standing to have it repealed by activist judges.

Also, he's old! Or so the New York Time and other "liberal media" keep telling me! Also, Genocide Joe, etc.... /s, obvs

Undecided voter is a euphemism for “someone who literally does not give one shit about the world beyond their tiny little bubble in it”.

Or it means, "Republican who has enough awareness to not want to admit it in public"

If you saw Jordan Klepper's Russia special, John Bolton straight up says he thinks Trump will pretty much end democracy.

And then mentions that he's going to write in a candidate when he votes.

I don't get it man. I'm not going to be happy voting for Biden, but I'd vote in Caligula's horse if it meant avoiding fascism overtaking democracy in the US.

Worse yet, I am afraid that Trump would die in office, then VP Donald Trump Jr would become President for 2 more terms, then by the time Eric is ready to takeover they will have already held the Constitutional Convention that turns the country into a benevolent Trump oligarchy, in which the title of "President" becomes hereditary, just as the Founders intended.

"Yes, yes. Carry on." - Samuel Alito

"My new TRUMP Motorcoach is really the talk of the town. Please don't call it an RV." - Clarence Thomas

"I've found some very strange lint in my navel." - John Roberts

"Hold my beer!" - Brett Kavanaugh

"Why are you forcing me to wear the handmaid's dress? I voted the right way!" -Justice Ofjesse

She'd be a Wife rather than a Handmaid, and that's where she wants to be.

"The handsmaid's look is really coming back in style." - Amy Coney Island

The only thing I disagree with is the use of the word benevolent

"Benevolent" being used in the same sense that China is a People's Republic, or NK is Democratic.

Well, they think they're beneveolent, at least with regard to the people who they feel deserve it.

He's already King of Trump Tower, and ofcourse "the bestest American", so by rights he IS king of America and will lead "his" people accordingly. "King Trumps President in power" and all that, so he now just needs to cement his family line in the role.

I'd find it immensely funny if he now already declared one of his family members as a running mate for VP position 😅

Already can hear the lame excuse: "it is needed now because they are the only ones to be trusted to do their job, for the better of the country" (Ofcourse it's convenient in the case ol' Donald is incapacitated for some reason, the one next in line cements the legacy for the century to come...)

8 years into this I find it hard to believe there are any "undecided" voters, I'm willing to bet most of these people have already decided who they're voting for but they won't publicly admit it for fear of fallout from their peers.
We see it a lot in Bible Belt States where people are very vocally opposed to abortion access, yet still turn out in staggering numbers to vote for it when it's on the ballot.

There kinda are. Very privileged people who don't need to pay attention to politics because the fascists aren't ever targeting them. So they can be clueless and just see the biggest soundbites that make it past political TV. If you haven't been paying attention to the shitshow, it probably looks a lot tamer. =/

If they're attacking trans and gays they might as well be attacking straight people at this point

Undecided doesn't necessarily mean they haven't decided who to vote for. It means they haven't decided if they're going to go vote.

Alternatively it means they're scared to say who they want to vote for because either they're blue in a red area and are used to hiding it so they're not shot or they know Trump is a piece of shit but are scared the Dems are going to force everyone to change genders and pee in front of each other.

Recent political ad from the campaign

If he gets back in office, he'll leave in a body bag.

That's not a threat, I just don't see him lasting much longer.

Not before establishing a dynastic succession plan though.

Historically, those tend not to last. If they take root at all, they last a matter of months. The adult children aren't able to harness the cult of personality the same way.

NKorea being one big exception. There aren't a lot of other examples in modern nation states.

That's honestly different. They're figureheads controlled by the army. Remember how the heir apparent was passed over and killed?

Well he has gone on record saying he should be a three term President many times. You don't have to really speculate, plus the judges are in his corner as well. I wouldn't put it past him, he doesn't care about rules or decorum.

I just can't think of any reason anyone would think that. I mean sure he said he wants to be dictator and he acts like he already thinks he's dictator, oh and that coup thingy... nevermind I see why.

Isn't a bigger problem his base and supporters? They're the ones giving him this power. Yes, we definitely want to make sure trump loses, but his supporters aren't going anywhere. They'll just support the next trump like person, who could be even worse.

And it's not even just that he won't leave, since he's gonna die pretty soon just of "natural" causes, if natural is what we have to wait for. He'll make changes that permanently affect the role too. Going back to democracy from dictator generally takes extreme violence historically. And generally outside influence. The states becoming a dictatorship is basically setting up world war 3. With a decent chance of the states not being the winner. Especially if Trump is planning on following whatever Putin is feeding him for the changes to make. Cuz we know that would be Putins goal. And all Trump cares about is going down in history, not sure it matters to him what he's remembered for, or he's convinced himself, or been convinced this will be seen as a positive move.

Speech to text?

Mine always catches me out on not pronouncing because fully.

He is borderline senile and doesn't live the healthiest lifestyle. He might damage the system beyond repair, but I doubt he'll stay around for much more than one legislature.

Edit: Before getting angry and comment, do realize I wrote "he might damage the system beyond repair"...

So my grandpa is almost blind and his hands are shaky... the chances of him hitting me with that gun he is waving around are slim to none... so I guess it's just fine to help him load the gun and make sure he has access to it whenever he wants... right?

I guess it’s just fine to help him load the gun

I would simply vote for him not to have the gun

His dipshit supporters might be just fine with handing it off to one of his failsons. Or handing it off to the likes of Bannon and friends.

I mean, once the system is ruined, anything can happen. Just because he dies in office after instituting fascism, doesn't mean we'd revert to normalcy.

He’s lined his kids up behind him to take the reins. We’ve already got Lara Trump as co-char of the RNC. It’s a takeover. From the party to the judiciary to even local level politics.

"BREAKING NEWS

The United States Government is putting unprecedented money into science that may allow people to live potentially forever! AS A HEAD IN A JAR! What impact will this have on..."

Year 1 of Trump Presidency, probably.

He might damage the system beyond repair

A guy like Trump doesn't break the system, he simply exploits the oversized flaws people choose to ignore.

One of the jokes in Trump claiming "I could assassinate a political rival of I felt like it" is the recognition that he's absolutely correct. He could have rivals arrested. He could have rivals shot. He could have whole neighborhoods bombed.

We do this overseas all the time. We just call it "regime change" and insist we did it as a favor for a population that will greet us as liberators.

The only difference between Bush sending in the marines to snatch Saddam and Trump sending in the marines to snatch Ted Cruz is which bunker they'd be hiding in.

He might damage the system beyond repair,

If that was the case, I'd say bring on Trump - but, somehow, I don't think that's going to be reality.

He'll damage the system, but not in a way that will make easier to overthrow. It might be better to say he will exacerbate the system.

They've already done a large portion of it. The damage is done with the judges they've installed not only in the scotus, but around the country.

They now have the power to legislate via the courts. They just file lawsuits in favorable locations (5th circuit) and worst case scenario it gets to the rubber stamp that is scotus so they can pontificate about how some 2nd century pig farmer proposed a law that should actually be taken as official because AmErIcAn HeRiTaGe or something.

That's like saying you're "concerned" water is wet or the sun will rise tomorrow....it's a certainly this scum won't leave, even if he loses again I bet he still tries to take it by force.

Seriously, if that's the only reason they'd vote for Biden instead? W. T. A. F.

Still, if that makes him lose, okay then. But imagine being able to see his threat to democracy, but still feel that there is nothing else about Ronald McDonald that is problematic?

Might not be the only reason, but it's one of the reasons, and perhaps the most critical.

Of the reasons, this general idea is the most existential threat to our democracy. Everything else, in theory, could be undone in a subsequent election/term. The supreme court appointments are the second most dire, as those can stand for who knows how long.

Oh, I agree it's very important and perhaps the critical difference between the Republican and Democratic Party, however, I just find it baffling that there are voters that recognize Ronald McDonald is flawed enough to end this country but then being kinda cagey about it. Like they are still okay with his party's terrible platform, but they just still want free and fair elections later...

And yes, the Supreme Court is a major reason to come out to vote even for those that believe that the Democratic Party is not filled with unicorns and perfect rainbows, or that #BidenSoOld, or that Ronald McDonald and his merry band of white supremacist fascist maximalist accelerationists won't dismantle this country and plunge us into civil war and/or tyranny and genocide all because they have utterly insane ideas about how this country should work. Even if the worst weren't to happen, Spanky is likely going to be able to name new justices.

Have you ever canvassed for a politician before and talked about these issues with random voters, because I have, and people are fucking weird. People who will vote straight ticket Republican except for President and then they always vote democrat. I met a woman who felt abortion should be legal except for rape or incest because it would be "destroying evidence of a crime".

Don't ever expect reason on sociological scales.

I don't agree with it but I can understand it somewhat. Some voters don't care about (or hate) the people currently being directly threatened, and only want to see a major economic collapse. A Republican Party dictatorship could drag on for decades and deny them that quick decisive ending.

Accelerationists aren't just a problem for the left. Crazies all over think they just need a little chaos to get their chance.

Most (leftist) accelerationists I've seen are either people that are just trolling, elitist tools that are going to be able to flee the country and set up camp in the Riviera or the like, don't actually live in this country, or just armchair revolutionaries completely ignorant of history (1). Almost no one comes out on top - eventually the revolution calls for your blood, too. To paraphrase Tyson, all these revolutionaries have a plan until they and/or their families are up against the wall and get a bullet in their head.

Actually most of the rightwing accelerationists I can think of meet the description in the first paragraph, come to think of it.

(1) I seem to recall someone (Lenin?) calling this last type eggheads because they were typically fodder when it came to violence. I suspect none of the accelerationist theorists will be on the frontlines; all of them can go fuck themselves. Just because they seem to have personal problems they want to make an entire nation, possibly the world, suffer. It's just so childish.

Hidden? That's literally the main argument when anyone surfaces a complaint about Biden. It's always some variation of, "If we let Trump into the White House again our democracy is over."

The hangup isn't awareness, it's acceptance. People aren't questioning that he'd try to be dictator for life, they doubt his ability to succeed. Once you've seen someone try something and fail it's reasonable to think they're just too incompetent to succeed.

Whenever I see people ask for support for the claim they're typically met with a hail of downvotes and name calling. That may feel righteous but it does absolutely nothing to recruit that person. Instead they'll walk away with even stronger convictions.

Why would anyone take that chance? Doesn’t sound like you truly understand the stakes

Let me give you a small-text infographic about all the things Biden's done so I can shame you into voting for him.

Please don't actually read the list, though.

Yes, we have two absolutely shitty choices for president. So why not focus on your senate and congressional choices. Or even look at your gubernatorial elections and local senators and aldermen. A lot of those determine how the parties get to interact with the federal choices. You want better choices? Get involved.

Wait why aren't there any hexbearians or MLs here?

I think a lot of the bigger instances defederated with hexbear. Not sure where the .mls are

I mean the guy’s almost eighty years old, fat, and eats like a toddler. He’s gone on record saying he doesn’t exercise. He’s probably not going to last much longer. What I’m worried about is the damage he definitely will do if he’s reelected.

It's not Trump the shitheel being president forever that's necessarily the problem. It's that he'll set things up for Trump the idea being president for life. The next person to take the reigns from him, likely someone more competent, will be that US Emperor because of the damage Trump and the Republicans cause.

The thing I worry about is him somehow pulling a Kissenger and living to be 100 years old, as evil people seem to have this weird habit of doing. I mean, you hear of some proper villains dying young(ish) because they get murdered, or take themselves out to avoid justice, but you don't hear of a lot of them dying in their 50s from natural causes for some reason.

He's 78 and obese. Dictator for life is like 5 years now.

Problem is that once you have a dictatorship, you don't suddenly go back to elections and normal politics once the dictator dies — you get the dictator's kid or friend running things.

Somehow I don't think Generalissimo Eric Trump is in the cards. Probably someone more like Elon Musk or Sean Hannity. A celebrity that can rile up enough violence to overcome his or her competitors.

This is the point. The Secret Police have files on everyone, and the military isn't about to hand over their weapons.

The judges on the bench got in because they support The Man; the people collecting taxes; the teachers; everybody in government has to be replaced.

It's easy to make soup. It's not so easy to unmake a soup.

Okay so 4 year term then he becomes dictator for a year, you think that system will let go of that power once in place? Well maybe I'm not one to study thing things but it doesn't seem likely.

Maybe you should study things. Start with Franco.

According to Wikipedia the elite tried to continue the dictatorship but due to pressure things transitioned. Thank you for arguing for my point.

Edit. Okay wiki didn't say they tried to continue the dictatorship technically but that's the implication if they were pressured to move to a democracy. So maybe my point wasn't argued.

I thought he had 5 years left 8 years ago.

honestly once you get into your 70s you've mostly dodged the usual things that kill unhealthy people if you're a relatively healthy and mobile person in your 80s then you'll probably make it into your 90s barring any major accidents

Dude, he's old, obese and doesn't take care of himself. If he wins he might not even end his term before his heart gives out.

So my grandpa is almost blind and his hands are shaky… the chances of him hitting my with that gun he is waving around are slim to none… so I guess it’s just fine to help him load the gun and make sure he has access to it whenever he wants… right?

The diabetes will kill him I'm the nearest 6 months, so its technically true.

Once democracy is dead, his death won't take us back to what we have today — we'll end up with one of his kids or buddies running the show, and that can be even worse.

Got news for ya. Democracy he's been dead for a while now.

Democracy is a spectrum, it's true that it's getting less democratic, and the US is certainly less democratic than most of Europe, but it's still technically a democracy.

The theory that Trump would somehow be allowed to just stay president indefinitely is an equally absurd conspiracy theory as Trump having actually won in 2016.

It's not a question of being allowed, he's broken so many laws in the past alone and got away with it heck is still doing those same things. Already he is denying legality of any law or prosecution that is currently blocking him and steps past...

It's a matter of who will dare to stop him once he is at that point: He has judges in his pocket. Part of the armed forces apparently are pro maga. Who or which branch will actually physically stop him once he declares his reign to continue? Ofcourse it will be under a lame excuse that it's good for the country, it is in unrest or at war right now so elections are bad hmmkay? So generally it'll be swallowed and shrugged off.

Any PERSON trying, or even complaining, risks being shot by henchmen or at the very least gets their and their family's lives destroyed.

Here and there there might be committees making a declaration what he's doing is illegal, but if Trump's team ignores it all or makes them go away, there is no oversight to stop him because no one single individual dares to stand in front.

As long as he has part of the judiciary system and a good chunk of armed folks to his defense one can sue and complain and he might show up in court to make a circus out of it but meanwhile will sit it all out on his throne.

an equally absurd conspiracy theory as Trump having actually won in 2016.

Trump did win in 2016. And yes, it's entirely reasonable and consistent with his behavior and rhetoric to this point that he will try not to leave. He's already comparing himself to FDR and talking about three terms.