I giggle every time rule
*please note i deeply value and respect the vegan movement. i am just critical of how humorously it precipitates in online spaces, particularly this one. :)
*please note i deeply value and respect the vegan movement. i am just critical of how humorously it precipitates in online spaces, particularly this one. :)
it is especially frustrating coming from a person who would die if they just stopped eating meat (eating disorder), I have mentioned this online and gotten responses from these people saying that they think it would be better for me to starve to death than to eat meat. it makes me depressed to know that some people want me dead
I am glad that people are able to go vegan but some of you go into a moralistic argument and act like everyone who eats meat is glad about it and gets off on torturing animals
I'm a vegan, and fuck those people.
I've got a medical condition that meant I had to take it fairly slowly just it be sure my body wasn't going to literally fall apart when I went vegan, luckily I'm doing well (in a few ways I'm actually much better off now, though I'm still scared of falling apart). Medical conditions are valid as hell for not going vegan, I wasn't aware of how an eating disorder could prevent it but I've read a fair bit online now, so thankyou for sharing.
One of the scariest moments of my life was when my friends and I were publically assaulted by a pair of very large vegan men who didn't like that we weren't vegan. I was vego at the time but sure as hell wasn't going to tell them, people who act like that are an absolute disgrace and make me ashamed to be vegan. Veganism to me comes from a deep sense of empathy, if you can't feel empathy for other people then you're not a vegan as far as I'm concerned.
I'm just imaging gangs of large vegan men attacking delis. Where the hell do you live? Lol
Haha it was nothing like that, they just sort of came out of nowhere. My city is normally pretty safe, I've literally never had another encounter like that in my life.
If you're hurting anyone, outside of combat sports or self defense, you're not vegan. Those men might have been plant based but certainly not vegan
This has to be the stupidest take on the term "plant based" I've ever heard. I swear, "plant based" is just the "No true Scotsman" of vegans.. anything that a non-meat-consumer does that a vegan doesn't like makes them plant based instead of vegan. It's so asinine and intellectually dishonest.
Vegan people can be assholes too. Assholes will inevitably exist in any demographic that gets sufficiently large. I have known people who identify as vegans who insist that it's preferable for humans to die than for non-human animals to die.
It's not that complicated... Plant based = diet Veganism = philosophy
Can't really blame you for not knowing as they do get used interchangeably in the media.
But you can't just self identify as a person that follows a certain philosophy without actually following it. Vegans avoid cruelty towards animals and humans are animals.
And what if someone is convinced that acts of cruelty towards some humans is the most effective way to reduce cruelty towards a large number of animals? They might think that you're not vegan because you're allowing more cruelty towards animals to exist than they are. I have encountered self-identifying vegans who genuinely think this way.
I don't think you can stop cruelty through cruelty. Veganism is about acknowledging every individual and abstaining from exploitation and cruelty towards them. It's not some sort of utilitarian philosophy where it's ok sacrifice a small number of individuals for the good of a larger group.
this take is being criticized for no true scottsman-ing but it kinda makes a lot of sense, like ‘oh no i hate seeing living creatures harmed let me go punch this guy’??? it seems like maybe those dudes were just looking for an excuse to whack people and if not veganism they would have found some other ideology to abuse
obviously this doesn't work for everyone, but this is why i'm such a big proponent of meat alternatives
having stuff like pea protein nuggets fortified with vitamin B12 and whatever else is an actually practical way to reduce meat consumption, if we make it possible to replace meat and barely notice that you've done so then everyone but the meat industry wins, which is even more of a win for the rest of us.
stay alive and fed bestie 😌✨
I have too many other things to worry about, to make myself hate meat. That said, I understand there is terrible shit happening in that industry, most militant vegans I have crossed paths with are wearing an apple watch and Nikes...so, I can't take them seriously. We all pick our battles. In the end, work harder on making fake meat great. Get on it vegans, fund the research and go to school for it! If I can get my animal proteins and whatever else from a burger thqt I can't tell came from a lab, I will never buy farmed meat again, just like that, overnight. If you sit in front of a dairy isle with pictures of sad cows, I am going reach past you, get my milk, and forget you exist in 2 isles. A lot of people are not actively against your cause, we just don't care either way. Be more effective.
I get vegancirclejerk posts in my feed and in most cases I am not sure if these posts are serious or just making fun of vegans. Most of the time it looks like troll posts. It's more like a meat-hate cult.
Its a circlejerk, the whole idea is to troll
Yeah seems like it, either way it's cringe. On one hand these are sicere and that is just too bad for vegan comunity, on the other hand it's pure trolling - which is just sad.
Lesbians?
lesbians may love meat on occasion 😁
Girldick tho
I personally love cheesebreather, bloodmouth, and milk-drinker.
Bonus points to milk-drinker because that’s not even a term made by vegans to call people coward babies. Play Skyrim and you’ll hear it all over the place!
Carnist doesn’t count because it’s not technically an insult. It’s just a name for someone that practices carnism. Carnism IS terrible, but the purpose of the word is no different than Christian to Christianity.
It’s hilarious that carnists get so butthurt about being called what they are though so I enjoy that part.
see i just couldn’t keep a straight face if you tried to say those while making eye contact 😭😭
I'm glad accurate discriptors of your lifestyle seem as ridiculous to you as they are!
Carnist seems to imply that they eat ONLY meat though. They're not carnivores, they're omnivores. It's on the same level as using the terms pro-abortion and pro-life to describe the two sides of that debate. This kind of name calling of an out group is not too far removed from all the wacky names flat-earthers give to all the rest of us just living here on the globe not being wack-a-doos.
Using the term butthurt is some straight up 90s era homophobia too. Nice.
genuinely curious, how is 'butthurt' 90s homophobia?
It isn't. It's in reference to "having a stick up your ass", which means being uptight and overly serious. Because they are stiff, as though a firm rod had been run the length of their body.
People also mistakenly believe that to be a homophobic phrase too. Mind you, there's a slim distinction here. Telling someone to "shove it up your ass" could be considered homophobic, though I think of it as just rude. I feel like context would matter a lot here.
The youth today think everything insulting must be a slur of some kind and are obcesse with moral purity.
The youth today have nothing to do with it. It’s reactionaries who take a genuine issue (people using actual slurs) and apply it to situations that work in their favour (acting like ‘carnist’ or ‘cishet’ are slurs).
I can't find anything except random tweets saying as much, and a medium article behind a paywall saying it isn't.
So... I have no idea either.
That could be carnivore, carnist means they follow carnism, which is the ethical framework that justifies human subjugation and exploitation of non-human animals
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism
From my understanding, carnism is closely related to speciesism. Most people wouldn't eat dogs or cats, but happily eat chickens, cows and pigs.
I always feel like "carnist" implies they're a pervert too
Filthy, degenerate carnist out there holding hands and hamburgers!
bloodmouth sounds like the name a supervillain
or their last name, idk
I think carnist is a useful word that a lot of people get caught up on. As you say it's not a pejorative, just a word that describes someone who chooses to eat meat as opposed to carnivore which is a creature that can only eat meat. All humans are omnivores, but not all are carnists.
Me every time a militant vegan says "carnist":
I've never interpreted that as an attempt at an insult, what word do you think is more fitting?
Omnivore, maybe? 🤷
But yeah, pretending that eating meat is an ism IS an insult when coming from an evangelical vegan who considers it morally reprehensible lol
"carnist" has a different meaning than omnivore. It’s used for people who actively defend what they think is their right to consume flesh.
Just like how evangelical vegans actively assert what they think is their right to control the diets and other lifestyle choices of adult humans who haven't asked them to? 🙄
basically the same way we assert the right to tell people to stop using ai, to stop being racist, sexist, transphobic, using planes or heavy cars, giving money to fascists…
chosing to view animals as resources is not about diet, it’s about power over sentient beings and hierarchy of lives based on species.
Holy false equivalences, Batman! Are you going for the record or are you really THAT bad at discerning wildly disparate concepts and levels of severity from each other? 🤦
Now class, over here is a blatant example of the ad hominem fallacy
Nope. They're objectively spewing a large array of false equivalence and my personal comment was directly and logically derived from that and that only.
It was thus logically sound AKA not a fallacy.
Your comment, on the other hand, is a textbook example of a reverse causation fallacy strawman combo:
you portray my criticism of their argument as a personal criticism when in fact my subsequent personal criticism is based on the illogic of their argument and nothing else.
You literally asked if they were that bad at logic while offering no actual refute to what they had to say. But whatever, have a nice day
"Those are not at all equivalent" IS a refutation.
It's not my job to spoonfeed bigots about exactly how my dietary (lack of) choices is different from hating trans and black people while sponsoring fascism 🙄
If your diet includes meat, you are most likely causing the death of an animal. If you believe that killing animals is wrong, then it follows that eating meat is also wrong. As to what is more wrong versus what is less wrong, that varies from culture to culture and age to age. Perhaps they believe that killing an animal is almost as bad as killing a human. Their argument is sound; it is just based on different axioms than yours.
It's quite telling that you're ready to say "control" to describe people arguing that you shouldn't use animals as resources, but not to describe what happens to animals. Or if you would use it to describe what happens to animals, that you think nothing untoward of it. You know what I mean? Either controlling is, as you imply, inadmissable and you therefore become vegan because you mustn't control animals, or controlling is sometimes admissable and you purport carnism.
Also since when is open exchange of ideas and concerns equated with control?
Am I trying to control you if I suggest that you not leave your tap running in California because fresh water is a precious resource in drought-plagued land?
Am I trying to control you if I suggest that you reduce your plastic consumption because we have a major microplastic crisis so severe that human babies are being born with plastic already in their body?
Am I trying to control you if I point out that the modern meat industry is ecologically unsustainable, so you're going to have to switch to being vegetarian sooner or later since the meat production will literally collapse itself, so you may as well start now before it's a global crisis?
If I suggest that you not hit yourself in the head with a hammer, is that me trying to control you, or is that just an act of very basic concern for your well being? And if hitting yourself in the head with a hammer becomes trendy, am I trying to control everyone if I suggest that we shouldn't be doing that because brain injuries will make us dumber as a society?
You have to agree that there are at least two types of active, "militant" vegan: the ecological vegan, who focuses on the many global issues arising from the international meat industry, and the meat moralists, who are focused more on the immorality of meat consumption at all.
One of those is leaning toward control.
Veganism is an -ism as well. You're getting worked up about a term that, at its core, just means that a person believes it is normal, natural and necessary to eat animals and animal products. Omnivore on the other hand means that you are able to digest and eat all kinds of food. If someone calls you a carnist, then the word itself is about as insulting as using "vegan" to describe vegans. Whatever derogatory meaning "evangelical" vegans put behind it is inferred from context or tone, not the word itself.
But NOT being vegan isn't. In 99% of cases, it's not an active choice based on values like veganism and indeed all other isms is.
Claiming otherwise while also asserting that it's morally repugnant behavior is a value judgment and a bigoted one at that
Personally, I don't eat meat most days and when I do it's from a LACK of an active choice not to do so, not a choice TO eat meat.
There's just not enough meat free alternatives that 1) taste good, 2) are within my means financially, 3) are filling enough AND 4) are within my severely ADHD-reduced ability to focus long enough to cook for myself.
As explained above, that's just not true. An evangelical vegan calling someone who eats meat a "carnist" is more along the lines of a Protestant from Northern Ireland or Scotland calling a Catholic a "fucking papist".
It's a sectarian slur, basically.
Except for the fact that it's only used in a derogatory context and tone, just like all other slurs.
Or maybe your opinion on what the term means is influenced by your biases about what vegans are like and act like towards carnists? If you interact with vegans on a friendly basis rather than assuming that they're trying to insult you or that they're calling your choices morally repugnant, you may find that it'soften used descriptively rather than to pass judgement. I have personally seen the term used neutrally more often than I've seen it used insultingly. It was also not coined as a slur: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism by the way, Melany Joy was describing exactly what you mentioned: The pervasiveness of carnism, which makes it an unconscious automatism for many people.
Fixed that for you. Framed like that, the answer is yes: not all vegans are bigots, of course, that would ironically be a bigoted and untrue claim.
All proselytizing evangelical vegans I've ever been in contact with, many of which have been om Lemmy, have either used the word "carnist" as a slur or not at all. With the possible exception of you, though I'm not at all sold on that based on your denials of reality so far.
I never assume in advance. As I said, not all vegans are bigots. None of the few I know IRL are. A LOT of the ones here on Lemmy are, though, and they're always the ones to initiate conflict since I frankly have better things to do with my life than go actively looking for things to be offended by. Unlike said evangelical vegans.
Even if that was the case, that's still misleading as, like I've already explained, not being vegan isn't any more of an ism than being atheist is a religion.
Even if not used deliberately as an insult, it's inherently non-neutral as it infers a belief system that isn't there in 99% of cases and simultaneously lumps everyone who's not vegan together in one group like a fundamentalist religious person would lump everyone who's not a follower of their religion together as "heathens" and "apostates".
It was coined by a vegan activist to generalize about a lot of people who don't themselves consider their lack of veganism a belief system. That Wikipedia article is about as biased towards support for the topic as the one about Israel 🙄
It's a slur coined to lump people who have nothing meaningful in common together in order to make them easier to attack. It's the equivalent of calling undocumented immigrants "illegal aliens".
That's the tricky thing with biases, right? They're formed by our experiences. My experience interacting with vegans has clearly been different from yours, so that may explain why you would think I'm denying reality. Anyway, I hope you can keep an open mind when talking to vegans who use the word carnist. Not all of them are bigots :)
And also by believing unreliable sources like Melissa May and not questioning loaded terms coined to inspire and reinforce biases. Such as "illegal alien" and "carnist".
Probably because you are one yourself and thus aren't the target of their slurs and other bigotry towards people who don't follow their extremist version of vegetarism.
The fact that you blatantly are is another big motivator as well.
I've seen the JBP crowd denounce the consumption of any amount of vegetables as woke and soy.
Yeah, THEY can accurately be described as "carnist", unlike the rest of us.
They're a tiny minority that DO elevate meat eating to an ism.
See the difference?
Honestly, no. It's still just people being mad at each other for no reason.
If you don't see the difference between eating meat at all and not just ONLY eating meat, but portraying eating vegetables as a moral failing, then I just can't help you.
I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.
I don't see the difference between people complaining online and other people complaining online
Yeah, people hurt themselves to own the people they disagree with....but I am pretty sure we are supposed to be omnivores...I don't think carnivore works for us. #NotAnExpert
We are omnivorous by nature, but we can do fine without eating meat if we get the protein from elsewhere.
the militant ones are cool. it's the evangelical ones that bring out my ire.
Some things are so horrible and evil that it's difficult to ridicule them, it requires a lot of creativity.
Carnismisn't one,carnismis an academic term, and carnist just means a proponent of carnism (it may be in some dictionaries already).https://www.carnismdebunked.com/
Deal with it, meatflakes.
bro said meatflakes 🤣 say it again
meatflakes sounds good. mmmm like bacon bits on a donut
I've got a few family friends who were livid when they found out their daughter had watched the movie "Bambi", because they were convinced it would make her Go Woke the next time they tried to go deer hunting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ74v_NU8RM
I bet he did want to be my ham though!
This classic is for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAF35dekiAY
Too bad ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"...but I'll happily eat someone else who has been made 'my' bacon!"
"Debunked?" It's delicious, and that's a subjective truth for me that cannot be debated - there's nothing to debunk.
Solipsists are truly the worst.
You should try human flesh. There are some countries that humanely kill unadoptable children, their flesh is subjectively delicious, it's an undebatable truth! And if that's not to your liking, Elwood Dog Farm humanely slaughters all numbers of dogs for your gourmet pleasures. Debunk that, vegans!
I have no problem with eating non-pet dogs, but there is real danger that comes from cannibalism. Don't be stupid.
No more danger than eating puffer fish. Avoid the brain and spinal tissue, you avoid the risk of a prison disease. Besides, if we're talking about dangers to our health, veganism is quantifiably healthier and correlated with longevity.
And what do you mean "non-pet" dogs? Why wouldn't you want to eat your pets? They live a much happier life before their slaughter, and it's easier to manage the texture of their meat when they're live-in stock.
You haven't thought this through much, huh?
in some respects for some people. some of the studies (china study, for instance) have been debunked, though.
you aren't a dietician. even if you are (i admit, i was guessing), you aren't my dietician, so maybe you shouldn't be telling other people what a healthy diet would be for them.
It's true and cringe, you should still go vegan though
No.
Great argument
Not a vegan, but you're an asshole. People recognize a genuine problem with an industry that contributes massively to climate change, antibiotic resistance, and environmental destruction, and you're mocking them? That's some South Park level shittyness/stupidity. Maybe one day you'll realize vegans have a point, but you probably won't own up to how much harm your attitude caused.GTFO. You aren't welcome here.Edit: thank you for editing the post. It really wasn't clear that it was meant to mock a shitty subset of vegans when you first posted it rather than the entire movement. I 100% agree that those people can be snobbish dicks.
when on earth did i say i wasn’t vegan or disagreed with them :) i simply think the words are objectively very funny
edit: but taking your criticism to heart, ive just now edited the meme to be less acerbic and to better reflect my intention. thank you for sharing your thoughts. i don’t mean to be hurtful, just shining a light on the silly stuff in the world.
You're right. They can be oh so holier-than-thou about an individual choice that can't practically solve the problem. I saw your comment about vegans not harming anyone(even though those vegans harm by being mean), and assumed you were a chud. It's really important for all of us to be more clear about our intentions. If we aren't, it invites reactionaries to feel comfortable here.
okay slay 🤝 yiss i agree
Surely this will make more people take vegans seriously!
Definitely a vegan lol
Nah, I love meat. I just eat it without any illusions that it's not fucked up. Ultimately, many people can't afford to not eat animal products. Being a vegan is expensive in time and money, which is why lower income people aren't as commonly vegan. It's possible for them, but it does take a ton of time and effort.
Things are this way because the full cost of the meat industry get passed off to the public as negative externalities. It's the same way with the fossil fuel industry. Chevron doesn't pay for the harm caused by greenhouse gasses in the same way that the meat industry doesn't pay for the diseases their industry spawns, the increased agricultural production to feed livestock that cuts down forests, or the fucking cow farts spewing methane.
Mocking vegans has the same energy as mocking renewable energy. It's not as bad, but only because we aren't as totally reliant on meat. Our current society cannot function on renewable energy. We'd need to effectively degrow to reach net zero, and markets will never do that. Average people cannot solve this problem by going vegan or getting solar, but that doesn't mean it's bad to do those things.
I don't think the second half is true. Despite being subsidized like crazy, meat is still relatively expensive.
It's definitely more time-consuming if you wouldn't be cooking otherwise. At least in my experience if you want to eat something vegan you gotta make it yourself (at least in my home country).
i really think it's just more nuanced. vegan meals can be both cheaper or more expensive, easier or more complex, depending on the specific meal/where you live/time of year/etc etc
like you can totally just eat whatever plant bits and mushrooms you can get your hands on along with a multivitamin, that will probably be cheap and healthy as hell and the most effort involved is peeling things and spending a few minutes frying or an hour of unattended time stewing it. That is however probably really fucking unappealing for most people, so you have to either spend more effort on making the meals interesting, or spend more money on premade actually appealing vegan products.
As an autistic person who was viewed as "picky" growing up, and having been raised with the culture of a "meal" consisting of starch/protein/some veggies/TONS of sauce; it's taken a fair bit of effort to even accept the idea of not having any meat in my food, and i still regularly use stuff like ground pork or chicken breasts in my cooking because it's just such a simple way to produce food that makes me happy.
What i really wish would change is the proliferation of more good, simple, tasty, and cheap vegan or at least low-meat frozen food. One of my absolute favourite food products is Felix vegetarian hash, which is just diced potato, onions, soy-based protein chunks, and some seasoning; which you toss in a frying pan with some fat and fry for like 10-15 minutes and it's done. Costs 7 EUR per kg and tastes really good, it's human kibble in the best way possible especially if you just add some frozen peas.
Absolutely! Despite making a short straightforward comment about my own experiences with the time commitment and cost of veganism, I fully understand that it's more nuanced in my own life, let alone across the breadth of differing human experiences and cultures worldwide.
I am genuinely glad you managed to find a cheap and tasty food which can at least help you reduce slightly your meat purchases.
I really dislike non-vegan leftists and environmemtalists, the bullshit, the endless excuses as soon as YOU have to change, not others. Stop eating meat and save 3/4 of landuse, water pollution and co2 emissions.
Going vegan is such a money-where-your-mouth-is move. If you're left enough to know the damage meat eating causes, yet you still eat meat, how are you better than the industries you call out?
So much right wing bullshit is based on greed, yet left wing meat eaters can't make the single most significant consumer change because "bacon too yummy lol".
All these great left wing youtubers, as soon as I see they're not vegan my respect drops in half.
I feel you! My last comment here was exactly this.
The meme is about this type response. Hilarious.
Veganism does cause intellectual deficiencies. Did you forget to take your supplements?
no it’s not.
not cool. you should consider logging onto the internet and being kind to people.
Allowing bad ideas to propagate unchallenged helps no one.
There are studies behind the negative affects on brain health that occur with vegan diet are not something I made up.
Unlike the agenda based studies that vegans trot out, there is hard science backing it up.
“no you don’t understand, bad ideas have to be challenged that’s why i was forced to personally insult you”
blocked for being rude. toodles ✌️
I didn't personal insult you, you were insulted on someone's behalf. That's precious.
dude lemmy.world is rly toxic recently i wonder what happened
spujb called open season on everybody and I'm here for it
i consider myself an equal opportunity hater 🧚♀️
Your response isn't any better, to be honest. Yes, there is a certain risk of a negative impact on cognitive performance related to a large and long-time B12 or iron deficiency. But there is a large difference between "you have to take supplements to be healthy" and a blanket claim of "veganism does cause intellectual deficiencies", especially considering most vegans supplement.
Side note: the B12 in factory farmed meat is also supplemented to those animals, otherwise their meat wouldn't contain it, being produced under those conditions. One can only hope all farmers actually do this
Better?
No, since the claim "veganism does cause intellectual deficiencies" is still wrong, because veganism doesn't cause this, a lack of supplementation does. And most vegans supplement adequately. So saying that veganism "per default" causes this would be dishonest, because it implies that not properly supplementing is the default/intrinsic to veganism, which is not the case.
It's like saying "drinking alcohol kills you" just because you have to be mindful of limiting your consumption and it can kill you if you don't. An extreme statement that contains a kernel of truth, but is simply not correct.
Good argument, but it's still admitting that veganism is completely unsuitable for humans in general, due to (and proven by) the need for supplements
How does this follow in any way? You know that the distinction of "supplement" and "regular part of the diet" is completely arbitrary, right? What's the difference between regular supplementation and the requirement of "having to hydrate" or "eat your greens for your vitamins" to be healthy? It's even less logical/relevant considering many replacement products add B12 etc on their own by now.
Also factory farmed animals are getting B12 fed as a supplement, which makes this argument even weirder. "Pills bad/not part of the diet", but feeding the same pills to pigs and then eating their meat to get the same nutrients is suddenly "ok and natural/good diet"? Doesn't make sense to me.
You just keep telling yourself that, beanboy
user was banned for this comment 😜
first time i heard someone using the term carnists it was being used as an insult and i was so confused because "wait why are vegans mad at carnivals now?"
I once had a fling with a vegan girl who referred to me as a “carnie”, intending it to be a jab at me. Having worked in a carnival for several years I found it hilarious she tried to make it an insult.
I guess I don't see the posts you're referencing.
Also, I think you meant participates, not precipitates.
no i mean precipitates, it’s one of my favorite words
e: a synonym would be “manifests” or “incarnates”
Wow, I had no idea my known definition of precipitate was so low down the list of its meanings. Thanks!
and thank you for letting me flex my favorite word :)
I'm glad to see this interaction contributing to Lemmy's cordial atmosphere.
Because as they say, if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
Also a favorite of mine, but that meaning is usually transitive. So it “precipitates ”, not simply “precipitates”. A more syntactically equivalent synonym would be “causes” or “leads to”.
Like “slightly misusing a word on Lemmy precipitates a nerd-off”.
“manifests” and “incarnates” are also both capable of being transitive, and i in fact use “precipitates” transitively here, it’s just that i kind of left the object of that verb implied rather than stated, most likely because i was rushing to not get cancelled
an example would be saying just “i like how quietly clouds precipitate” where “rain” is left off because implied. i recognize my sentence was a lot less obvious for sure tho 😝
Reddit had some vegan communities that were about recipes and food-porn shots without constantly talking shit about people who ever eat anything non-vegan.
Lemmy... has some vegan communities.
You're not kidding. The ones on here go out of their way to make sure non vegans never turn vegan.
They seem to think that if you don't immediately go vegan you're trash, instead of helping slowly push people in that direction.
I'm not a vegetarian but my culture has a ton of great vegetarian options. I give these recipes to friends after they have them at my place. This is a good first step to get people to eat less meat. Just make good food that happens to not have meat. Baby steps. I would say about a third of my meals are vegetarian at this point.
Awww they're not hurting no one...
exactly 😂😂😂😂
You misunderstand.
I get the fun and appeal of being a little mean, but you're punching down innit? It feels weird to call out a group that's not hurting anyone.
i call out groups all the time when they do funny stuff
marvel fans aren’t hurting anyone either but i often make fun of them :) i wouldn’t personally call that punching down but if you must, feel free i guess
This is how you get slapped by Martin Scorsese
he’s right behind me isn’t he
Absolute 🫷😀🫸 Cinema
Hey, at least I'm not one of those weirdos who drinks stolen breast milk
I buy mine.
From a consenting woman or from a breast milk thief?
It fell off the back of a titty truck
It's... so counterproductive. It's like zero waste, we don't need a few people doing it perfectly, we need millions doing it imperfectly. By being such dicks and so combative about it, they actively are stopping people from having anything to do with them and reducing their animal product consumption. I've recieved various responses to this, from "If someone being mean to you stops you from not continuing to torture animals then you're a really shitty person" (and like yeah you don't have to convince me, I'm already suicidal, but contrarianism and not liking groups that are dicks to you is human nature) to "I don't care, you're evil and deserve to feel bad" it really seems to me like those people ironically just like hurting others and don't really actually care about improving lives for animals. Give up animal products? Sure! Give up shitting on people? NEVER! Certainly not all vegans are this way but the vitriolic ones online certainly are and give the rest such a bad name.
pretty good summary and it’s sooo much an exclusively internet problem
Imagine being such a coward that you specifically choose to start shit on a community that has downvotes disabled.
unblocking you temporarily just to say that this is by far the tamest callout-style post i have made in a hot second, 196 or not, both in my messaging and in reception :) people are being by and large very chill here and i am proud of this fact. when you see insults getting thrown, report it as it’s not allowed here. oktakecarebyeeee
Sure, it's super tame if you ignore the insults getting thrown against vegans, which are far more than the ones in the opposite direction both in this thread and elsewhere around Lemmy. But since those are sent against the same people you're throwing hostility against, everything is still "tame" to you. Fucking amazing.
"Could it be that I'm annoying and the broader Lemmyverse just doesn't like me? No, it's OP who deliberately got them going and turned them against me"
I'm not a vegan and I've never insulted people for eating meat, but I have eyes and I can observe that people get far more shit for being vegan than for not being so on this site. Keep on deluding yourself to maintain the fantasy that you're not in the wrong, though.
Get over yourself. Nobody cares what you eat, they care when they proselytize and demand that everyone takes their views. People don't hate vegans, they hate annoying soapbox screamers.
Nah.
That's a nice argument, senator. Why don't you back it up with a source?
You are making extraordinary claims here. All people challenging the status quo are hated on and attacked by a big part of the population. Be it vegans, queer people, feminists. How do we dare to question their identity, place in the world or behaviour by having an opini9n or by just fucking existing?
i don't know what you're talking about but the only reason anyone on lemmy hates vegans is because they accuse everyone who isn't vegan of being a murderer or whatever and then look around confused when people get mad at them for it like you're doing right now
It's nobody else's fault when an instance configures itself wrong.
I have provided polite feedback about the utility of downvotes, in threads that went 'it's great this instance has no downvotes, so everyone has to use their words for polite feedback!,' and some ShitJustWorks admin put a boot in my ass like I was ruining their fun. The modern internet's idea of civility is complete nonsense.
What in the goddamn is a 'goofy slur'?
hyuck hyuck
I'll fucken do it again
[Goofy falling yell]
Vegans use silly insults "out of a profound concern for animals...At social events, [they] sometimes gave graphic accounts of the slaughter of animals in an effort to make...dinner guests shun meat."
Edit: oh whoops, no, that was Hitler. My bad.
Typical hypolipidemaniac.
If you value veganism either you should be vegan or you're lazy and want others to fix problems while you hinder them
For every person I see who is actually vegan, there are a dozen people who complain about the existence of vegans, denounce vegans as hypocrites, and insist vegans are doing veganism wrong. And thank the heavens for all those vegan Indians, or the numbers would be so much worse.
Americans simply have no idea how fucking expensive it is to produce meat at the scale they want to eat it. We are one Dust Bowl away from ground beef going to $12/lb and patriotic burger-eaters lighting the suburbs on fire in protest.
I can't handle not wanting to kill myself, let alone a giant change in diet. What's this, another way in which my existence is detrimental to others? Add it to the fucking pile, it'll be enough to get me to kms eventually.
Look I've got terrible depression and chronic nerve pain. Idk what to tell you, hurting isn't a good reason to hurt others.
Personally I tend to feel better about myself when I'm doing good, I think that's pretty common. It's not so difficult of a change, if you learn like 5 solid lentil/bean based meals you can make easily (such as stews you can just throw in a pot) then you can just rotate through those as you learn.
Something like a chilli non carne, Moroccan chickpea stew, couple of dhals, and a pearl barley stew with lentils. I can dump some of what I use to avoid starvation when brushing my teeth is a 2 hour battle if you like?
You'll have more of an impact trying to convince people to try meatless mondays than you will by shaming people who aren't fully vegan.
I uh don't think you understand what veganism is about.
I'm queer, and for a long time I was not allowed to marry my wife. Imagine how ridiculous it would be to say something like "you shouldn't shame people for not treating you as an equal. You would have more of an impact trying to get people to recognise your relationship for medical authority purposes". It's just completely missing the point.
Humans are not fundamentally different to non human animals. Each one of them deserves dignity and respect, every cage must be empty.
Passive aggressively wagging your finger at people who haven't committed completely to veganism won't empty any cages. Convincing people to reduce their consumption peacemeal will. It sounds like you care more about the sense of self satisfaction than you do about the animals being harmed though so go off.
🙄 when you get angry at racists, sexists, sex pests, DVers, people that beat dogs, whatever are you angry because you want to feel a sense of self satisfaction? Or because it hurts you to see people hurting others and behaving in reprehensible ways?
Yeah me too.
TIL there’s vegan slurs. Don’t think I’ve ever been called something specific for being pro-meat. And I do loooooove my meat-based diet, let me assure you. No vegan slur would ever change that.
Congrats bloodmouth.
THATS THE ONE! I was trying so hard to remember the new one I was called that I really liked. That one is t-shirt worthy. One half over the other in a bloody grin.
hehehehe ‘bloodmouth’ 🤭🤭🤭 i love it too much
It's beets
"Carnist" is one the weird ones throw around. Makes it sound like I worship the Flesh Mother, the Great Changer.
Which is pretty cool.
I'm not into that. Can I still be a carnist if I worship a flesh daddy instead?
it's not a slur, it's the name for the ideology you follow. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnism
Thinking it's a slur is as silly as people thinking cis is a slur and exactly as reactionary.
Glory to the Flesh Mother!
As we consume thy flesh, transform us into thy carnist servant!
Grant us thy will through thy flesh, Great Changer!
Renew the world through thy emboldened flesh!
I fw this
Imagine being proud about a diet that's destroying the planet. Even petrol companies pretend not to be ass holes.
Meh, I wouldn’t say proud. I’m just not going to change it. If you don’t want to eat meat, don’t.
I’ve got solar panels, I ride a bicycle, don’t fly, don’t have a car, I recycle everything properly, I conserve water, and generally try to consume less whenever possible.
Is meat bad for the planet? Sure. But by and large, I don’t think me eating meat three times a week is going to have much effect. I’m much more concerned about people elsewhere on the planet discovering the joy of meat, like growing consumption in China.
You did say "I love meat, let me assure you". That's pretty proud.
Firstly, other moral goods don't rebuff moral wrongs. Owning solar panels doesn't mean it's morally okay to kill animals for your tastebuds.
"I don't think me eating less meat will have much effect". I mean, if everyone thought like you, global warming might happen. If everyone thought like vegans, (and went vegan today) we'd literally solve the climate crisis. Animal agriculture accounts for 40-60% of total emissions.
How can you be concerned about growing meat consumption in other countries? "Gee I sure hope people don't act like me, that'd be concerning!". Rules for thee.
That's not to mention the antibiotic crisis where treatment resistant bacteria are developing in animals due to overuse in livestock. Or the development of animal flus like birdflu, corona virus, swine flu, ebola etc etc, which emerge from consuming animals.
You're doing so much good, why not do the little extra step of going vegan? It's so easy nowadays. Good for you, good for the planet, good for the animals. There's no practical downside?
Fair enough, I can see how you'd read it that way.
Yep, it's hypocritical, and I accept that. But it's still a cause for concern, considering the broader context.
Over the past decades, we've seen a global rise in living standards. Especially in countries like China and India, which represent a significant chunk of our global population.
China's poverty has fallen dramatically over the past decades. The average Chinese person is now much better off than they used to be. If you look at poverty figures, you'll see a nice little ski-slope: back in 1990, effectively 98 percent of Chinese wereliving below the current poverty line. In 2019, that was down to below 16 percent.
Same thing for India: a dramatic poverty decline since the 1980's.
If you're at least somewhat aware of economics, you'll understand that an increased standard of living also leads to more consumption: people can now afford cars, they can afford to travel, they can afford more food - which includes meat.
China is already the world's largest meat consumer - but there's a catch: they're lagging in per-capita consumption. Experts predict that with increased urbanization and rising income levels, Chinese people are going to eat more and more meat. Because they can finally afford to do so.
Meat consumption is also on the rise in India. While there's certainly plenty of Indians who don't eat meat on religious grounds, actually over 70 percent of the population does eat meat.
So, see why I'm worried? Because they're going down the same path towards overconsumption that we ware. Is it hypocritical to say to a no-longer-impoverished Indian or Chinese person that they shouldn't want meat, cars or shiny new phones? Yes. But one can also hope that they learn from our mistakes in that regard. Overconsumption is going to have a profound impact on the scale of those two countries.
Those are certainly things I'm worried about. Especially considering recent history regarding covid. God only knows what meat production is like in some countries, and I shudder to find out. It's only going to get worse if producers try to fill that increased demand.
Well, honestly, at some point it gets really tiring to shoulder the burden of basically everything. I'm using a computer to type this, my previous post was on a phone. They both contain lithium, cobalt, coltan and other materials, a lot of which get mined with either exploited workers or outright slave labor. The clothes I'm wearing were probably made by an exploited worker in a sweatshop. And you can keep going on and on and on. There's really no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism, as any economics professor will point out.
So on some days, I like to enjoy a nice burger. Even if it might not be good for me or the planet.
all of agriculture is only about 20% of our emissions, so this just can't be true.
inconvenience, social ostracization, and aesthetic deprivation are actual downsides. further you don't actually know what is good for them: you're not their doctor. finally, it would be better for the animals if it shrunk industry. the industry grows every year, so it is not any better for the animals.
because it's ineffective at addressing the issues facing the environment.
um, good for you?
So reactionary, you going to start complaining about loud blue haired feminists next? Apparently it is too much to acknowledge those who can't advocate for themselves, but perfectly fine to participate in their genocide.
i feel like u didn’t read the whole post so here is a picture of a bagel while we wait for you to get caught up :)
Non sequitur and you ain't cute.
I think OP is cute, leaf-muncher.
More of a bean-licker.
Please tell me the innuendo was intentional lol
It was, I'm pretty ace but still enjoy lewd humor for whatever reason.
You know what else is a non sequitur? There's this individual whose actions don't align with any form of logic or morality. He causes immense pain and suffering, leaving a wake of destruction that seems utterly senseless. The chaos he creates is baffling, almost as if he thrives on spreading misery. It’s as if every step he takes is designed to shatter lives and bring darkness. And who am I talking about? None other than William Afton.
Preach