Google is silently blocking RCS messages on rooted Android phones and custom ROMs
androidauthority.com
TL;DR
- Users who have rooted their phone, have their bootloader unlocked or are using some custom ROMs report that their RCS messages are not being sent, even though RCS shows them as connected.
- The Google Messages app does not show any error messages when blocking RCS messages of these users and does not send the messages out as SMS or MMS either.
- Google famously campaigned for Apple to include RCS messaging in iMessage but is now blocking it for certain Android users.
I think after XMPP, Google Talk, Wave, Hangouts, Allo, etc... people should know better than to adopt a messaging service from Google.
Yes, I know RCS is theoretically an open standard, but if Google can keep me from using it, it effectively belongs to Google.
Seriously. How many more chat apps from Google do we need to learn the lesson?
Theoretically? RCS is not an open standard. It requires a license from GSMA.
XMPP is not from Google. They just successfully pulled an EEE.
You'd think people would know better than to adopt anything from google.
It's not like everyone has a choice in the say. Given that many schools and workplaces rely on Google for something
There is a difference between adopting, and being forced to use, you know.
It's worse than that. Carriers have a say as well. For example, Samsung messages works with RCS in some markets but US providers currently lock it out. They only allow Google messages for RCS. Absolutely infuriating.
RCS is monopolised by Google. Theoretically open ("maybe, in the future, once it's secure…"), but practically not.
Yeah hard to call it an open standard when there's a single implementation that's closed source and goes off of spec.
XMPP was ok for its time
Not only for its time! While flawed, I still see it as probably the best middle ground for messaging. It has evolved since then, its servers are easy to host and it has a variety of clients that support e2e.
Yeah I was using ejabberd around 2006 to connect some high touch clients, and it certainly got the job done.
Yeah, but I think that most of the clients are a bit dated in UX otherwise. There isn't really anything that I could suggest a friend to use
It seems crazy that Google is in last place for providing messaging services. It’s like:
Various 3rd party apps > Apple > Microsoft > Google
God, it's like they don't want RCS to succeed.
RCS is just stupid. When I was still building phones a decade ago we had some operators ask for it - but after reading the standards decided to just ignore it and hope it passes. Pretty much everybody did that, until google got interested - presumably because they figured it'd be a good way to get control of messaging on a lower level. As that's exactly what RCS is: control of messaging, and ideally the option to charge for it, just like SMS and MMS before that.
What's really bizarre is that Google had the chance to be a dominant player in messaging when they made Hangouts the default SMS client on Android. Instead, they backpedaled and let Hangouts wither into obscurity. I'm mostly glad they screwed that up, but also puzzled.
Hangouts was the best thing going for a while there. Of course they had to goog it up.
I would go so far as to say Google Chat today is better than Google RCS.
Hangouts/Google Talk was great when they had federation and allowed 3rd party clients. After they locked that it went to shit.
I miss the golden age when we had AIM, ICQ, or GoogleTalk, etc all on the client of our choosing.
More like they need to have everyone use the app so that they can offer "AI Assistant" features through it.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2024/01/28/new-details-free-ai-upgrade-for-google-and-samsung-android-users-leaks/
With UI decisions like the shortcut bar, they really don't. I switched to another SMS app because I couldn't stand it.
That other app? Cantstandya.
Google are so needlessly hostile to people that root, what the fuck does sending messages have to do with having elevated permissions on a phone?!
Monopoly is the only thing companies strive for.
The hostility towards custom ROM in general, is what forced me to root. Initially I used LineageOs without root. However, that got me in to issues with various apps, due to not passing safety net. So now I use magisk to hide that I use a custom ROM. So, they basically forced me to root.
I stopped using LineageOs due to their stance towards rooting and weak arguments behind it.
Google is probably trying to get around the cardinal rule of network security: you can't trust the client.
Their RCS client probably doesn't make sending a huge volume of messages (i.e. spam) easy, and more automation is possible with root. Yes, it's stupid, but it's not completely without purpose.
This is really it. Plus not everyone who roots (or, rather, everyone with a rooted phone) fully understands the security implications of running as root. I’d assume that since their implementation of end to end encryption must require a device-side key pair, and I’d wager that it’s pretty trivial to obtain private keys once you’ve obtained control of a rooted phone. For an adversary, this is a serious threat to the users privacy and security.
This is just one example. I’m sure it’s incredibly difficult to make a platform that you market as secure and private when your users have full control of the system that the application is running on. It’s a never ending cat and mouse game where the device user (whether “intended use” or not) has the upper-hand most of the time.
Not being a total Google apologist here though. They should have made it quite clear that they were blocking messages, and why. Not doing at least that, is inexcusable.
I'm a hardliner when it comes to user control of their own devices, so I'm not going to agree with Google's behavior here even if it, on average results in a benefit to users.
I don't think it provides a net benefit to users though. I think Google wants to be lazy about building spam-mitigation solutions, and wouldn't be sad if it results in fewer users blocking ads and tracking. If Google was positioning its RCS client as a hardcore security product, maybe it should warn both sides of the conversations that there's a risk of compromise, but even Signal, which is far more dedicated to security doesn't do that.
Zero-click exploits are a more common attack vector than modified operating systems in the real world, and I'd be willing to wager my up-to-date LineageOS install is less vulnerable to them than the average person's phone.
Do they not have the equivalent of TPM/Secure Enclave on Android phones?
Because if they don't have actually secure key stores, and require them for certification, that's on them.
I knew it! I had the sneaking suspicion that this was the case. About a month ago I updated my phone to Android 14 (custom rom) and noticed I started having trouble with RCS after a couple days since the update. I knew I was going to lose the play integrity but whatever. RCS was nice but I will not bend... just pushing me a step further to de-googling my phone. Lol it's funny how they cry to Apple about supporting RCS but yet refuse to allow third party apps or phones that don't meet their requirements, pathetic. There should be an encrypted text communication standard that isn't controlled by one company who can lock you out because you don't have approved software, that is ridiculous. That being said, I wish Signal was still a SMS app.
XMPP + OMEMO
also matrix
That too, but it is more resource-hungry to host (my biggest problem is that I have very limited storage and haven't quite figured out how to disable media downloads from all rooms). But yea, indeed still an option.
In worst case, symlink image folder to /dev/null.
I think the conduite server should be very lightweight, secure and easy to set up. But it's leaking video
Yea, Synapse was out of the question for my low-power VPS, so I was going to try either this one or Dendrite. Just that last time I looked, I did not resolve the storage concerns. Ideally, I would like to not save any media and text that comes from federated servers.
Needs to be something like family is going to use you see. Which is why I liked what Signal had since it doubled as SMS.
Great example since Google essentially hijacked XMPP and took it into a fully-intentional nosedive.
My 6a on GrapheneOS stopped working months ago and I've spent hours trying to figure out what I had changed in an attempt to fix it.
Google broke it at their end? For no reason but spite? What cunts.
Probably for "security reasons"
No, they want people part of their ecosystem (play services) so they can spy on you better. And incase ya forgot RCS could be a potential attack vector as it is more code that can possibly be used for nefarious actors.
MMS can be easily be used this way because of auto retrieval of pictures that have been modified with code that auto runs once downloaded and opened by the messaging app.
On older Android devices vulnerable to Stagefright, malicious code will auto-run as soon as the MMS picture preview is loaded by the system notification shade, if I'm not mistaken
Glad to see I'm not the only one! Same phone, same OS, same issue here too.
They are indeed some spiteful ass cunts.
It's apparently the Google Messages app, not Android itself. Good to know.
it's the only OEM-independent, RCS-compatible app for now, so it's not like you can work around it by installing another client.
It suggests that apps without this problem can be developed, which means more paths to a workaround than if we had to modify the operating system.
Sure but specifically with RCS, Google has to allow devs to use it in their apps. And they won't.
How is Google going to stop them?
Forbidding an app from the Play Store is unlikely to stop these users, who already use rooted devices and custom ROMs. They'll just get an app from their ROM provider, F-Droid, or elsewhere.
Does RCS depend on Google services integrated with the mobile network operator? If Google tried to use that position to forbid alternative apps, it would seem likely to run afoul of the Digital Markets Act.
I don't know a lot about RCS specifically, though. Is there another issue I haven't considered?
well, so far none of the third party SMS apps have implemented RCS support, and when asked, every developer replies that they need Google to open their standard for other clients to use, so I guess they've been doing a pretty good job at stopping everyone else.
Have they given a reason why the specifically not able to do it, or do they just not want to do it because it's "unlicensed" or "out of spec" if it's just the second option then it's a problem of having unwilling people and not a real entry barrier.
If there's an actual barrier to developing something like that it's important to understand what it is.
yes, every time the reason given was Google not opening their API to the public.
Oh good i dont use that
Quite ironic given that they cried because Apple didn't adopt RCS on iOS, and now they make it less accessible themselves.
I've disabled it for now. Rooted phone is enormously more valuable to me than RCS that only half works right to begin with.
I was able to get RCS working again yesterday by updating to the latest version of Play Integrity Fix, but if that hadn't worked, I would have disabled it and then probably switched over to Textra or Yatta for texting since RCS is basically the only thing keeping me on messages for texting.
You can just install the PlayIntegrityFix module. It works again.
Google doing shit and it's fine to circumvent it.
Yep. Sadly WhatsApp is the standard now.. I'd like to go back to something neutral like SMS, but not if they pull this shit.
Good thing nobody uses sms to chat here where I live....
The bad thing is that Whatsapp is the alternative.
The thing is, RCS isn't SMS. That's kind of the point. RCS is a replacement for SMS. The two protocols just happen to be available in the same Messages app. It's like sticking WhatsApp inside Messages, except it's a different protocol.
Oh I get it, but well, my point still stands, nobody here uses the stock messaging app, which can send SMS.
Which is partly good, as iMessage is not predominant here either.
Same here... whatsapp became so widespread, that even governmental agencies and private businesses use it for official communication.
That is what blew my mind indeed, and as someone who hates constantly dialing companies and such for minor crap, I kinda am glad they went this way lol.
google gonna google.
remember when they used to have "don't be evil" in their company mission statement? i miss that google
I remember rooting for their upstart little browser and being excited getting an invite to gmail, and thinking their OS was a cool alternative to the big mega-maniacal Apple stuff...
...now I just feel like my younger self had been taken for such a fool.
I always picture them in a meeting:
Person a: So.. ..looks like in order to get into the Chinese market, we'll have to work with the Chinese government to help them censor certain topics..
Person b: but.. ..our motto.. The optics aren't good on that..
Person c: maybe we don't need a motto.
now they are owned by alphabet too which is funny cause it was founded by the guys that founded google and they just restructured google and all its holdings to be under alphabet.
Pretty sure they created alphabet and all the other subsidiaries to escape paying taxes.
See alphabet owns things like the G logo, where they then sell a licence to google at crazy high prices to make Googles profit margins seem smaller than they actually are and because Alphabet use Tax havens (Ireland, Isle of mann, Panama, etc) alphabet pays no taxes on that revenue.
Yea I wasn't saying it was a good thing for us or the world even. Its funny because of all the things you just mentioned.
Ay yo, wtf
I think Magisk has a patch for this now.
Might as well double down and get luckypatcher again too lmao.
Oh it's still working?
Google also won't roll out RCS to Google Voice. They're just as shit as everyone else.
So that's why I can't send RCS messages.
I have a pixel, it defaults to RCS and those do not reliably deliver to my husband, who is on an android Samsung phone. I can't figure out what the big advantage of RCS is.
Yea, I can't talk to my mom with this either. We both use android
Custom Android versions are not ROMs, they are OSes
plural sucks though
And most flying things aren't drones, they are radio controlled models, but you try getting people to stop using that term.
Android/Custom ROM is the name for them, even if it doesn't mean what it should. It's not that far off as that partition is usually set as read-only, so it kinda is a ROM.
A carry over from the days of dumb phones when a phones software was still on a ROM
Groups of multiple OS's will henceforth be called OS's's (pronounced "oh-essessess").
Oases?
Oh yesyesyesyesssssss 🥵
Aah, perfection.
So I read that the RCS Apple wants to implement isn't exactly the RCS Google is using.
My hope is that once Apple starts using (a hopefully open standard) RCS, then everyone will switch to that and everyone everywhere can communicate securely.
That's not how Apple works at all. They have had iMessage for a long while now and refuse to open up the technology. They want to monopolize the communications so that they can keep controlling it.
My guess is they are just trying to sabotage any attempts at an open standard.
Sadly, you make a good point. They will probably develop their own RCS servers and let others connect to that.
I would be surprised if that happened. As we learned in the Apple v. Epic case (we all suspected before hand but was confirmed) Apple has kept I message closed so that parents wouldn't "buy cheaper android phones for their kids".
The strategy that has a proven track record, like the currently wildly popular BlackBerry Messenger.
What is the benefit of RCS? Ever since it started using that system, I've constantly had to manually change over to SMS because RCS just stops functioning entirely causing messages sent by me to not be sent and messages sent to me don't get pushed to me until I turn RCS off. So from my perspective, RCS fuckin' sucks.
Essentially it allows for end-to-end encrypted messages and high quality pictures and videos.
Oooo... So I can send more than a grainy 30 second video now? I mean, when it's working?
Yeah. It works well for me and never really had many issues with it. Sometimes it's slow when sending huge videos but that's to be expected
Yeah, but I still get shit quality from iMessage users.
They are blocking all of mine because I'm not gonna use their shitty text app
begrudgingly leaving a 1 star review about RCS not working
I left my one star.
4.3 stars as of my comment: 2024-03-03T11:31 UTC+00:00
Any idea how long this has been going on? I have an unlocked bootloader but am running a standard upgrade version on my phone and it was never rooted. Some time in the last few months I started getting warnings that my texts weren't going through and was asked if I wanted to switch to SMS... yeah ok I'd never heard of RCS before so yes please use SMS for all of my messages, and everything worked fine.
Supposedly this isn't doing any warning or asking to fall back. The messages just fail silently. I'd root and use the play integrity hider magisk module.
Hmm ok, maybe not related then. I had no issues with going back to standard SMS, and if they won't play by the rules then why should I care as long as I can text my family?
Privacy
what's the benefit of using RCS ? Is it the bubble colour BS?
Nobody who cares about RCS cares about the bubble color.
People who care about the bubble color are tech-illiterate Apple fanbois.
People who care about RCS care about being able to send high-resolution photos, group chats, and video calls with their tech-illiterate Apple fanboi friends and family in a default, common messaging app.
Also the non-fanboi Apple users, and the tech-literate Apple users, and the Android users. All in one default app and an open standard. Amazing.
Which is why it’s such a mess. The RCS standard is defined by the GSM association, an organization with well over a thousand members. Want to add a feature to RCS? Prepare for years of bureaucracy trying to get the standard amended. Then 750+ mobile operators worldwide need to upgrade their systems, adding at least another few years.
Meanwhile when Apple wants to add a feature they can just roll it out in the next iOS release.
And that’s totally fine.
It runs over IP and it’s designed in a way that allows implementers to have their own adaptations within their walled garden, like End to End encryption in Google messages.
Also important to note that Apple is not discontinuing iMessage as a result of supporting RCS. In fact, if I were a betting man, I’d imagine that within the next 5-10 years, Apple will either be moving iMessage to RCS, or to some other common platform along with the rest of the industry. It’s just not going to be worth their effort to maintain and update iMessage while also maintaining compatibility with RCS. They may even make improvements to the standard that allow them to make more features within a walled garden.
iMessage is legit the only thing tying me to iPhone. My wife and her family just can’t be bothered to use any third party apps (except Facebook Messenger for a couple of them, and I downright refuse to use that). So, as we exchange pictures and video a lot, it’s just easier.
Apples real secret sauce is its tight vertical integration between software and hardware. Because they have full control over both, they can squeeze out a ton of optimizations for a very limited selection of hardware. How that software interacts further up the stack…I think Apple will eventually realize that that juice isn’t worth the squeeze.
Edit: proofreading and realizing that both the Apple puns were completely unintentional.
You forgot teenage girls and (apparently) dumb women on Tinder, but yes.
They did say Apple fanboys
E2EE, unlimited attachment sizes, rich formatting, read/delivered notifications, reactions, group chat, stickers, a third-party app integration, stuff I'm forgetting about, and all part of the standard Messaging app.
But only through Google's RCS
Lol wtf 🤣🤣 then it'll be 100% E2EE.
No, iMessage is not compatible with RCS just yet. Messaging between an iPhone and Android is still SMS
read receipts, security and larger file sizes
use any american service - have all bad time.
imagine using an sms app that requires network access
I'm on GrapheneOS. It just never verifies my number for RCS, so everything is just sent as SMS/MMS. Has been going on for a couple of months now. I have no idea why as it does not remotely harm them whatsoever, and hurts their adoption. I'm waiting for a non shitty RCS app to come out, hopefully one that's FOSS.
Stupid question: Why should I care about RCS when I don't use Googles communication services?
Everyone uses SMS in US
Canada too,
Most of Canada is RCS. Both major carriers support it
Well in Europe, Switzerland especially, allmost nobody uses SMS.
If you have an Android phone and you're using the default texting app, you are. RCS is built into both the carrier side and device side.
Ah... Now i get it. Thank you!
RCS a decade ago, cool. RCS today? Dead.
WhatsApp is the defacto messaging over data globally. If you live anywhere outside the Murican bubble, SMSs are not used for anything and iMessage isn't even a thing people with iCrap devices care about. Everyone, on every platform, uses WhatsApp. Governmental services, private companies, and all the people use WhatsApp.
The only text messages SMS I get nowadays are from Americans that don't understand anything else and American businesses that use them for 2FA which is super insecure and equally stupid.
i will never use WhatsApp
Do you have any numbers to back this up? My understanding is this is a very eurocentric truth, but I don't actually know the state of messaging apps in Asia, south america, or central and southern Africa.
Anecdotally it's obvious everywhere you go. I travel all over the world often and it's always WhatsApp. The taxi drivers, the hotel people, everyone.
For actual studies I found a handful with a quick google that confirm it. Whatsapp reported 2 billion users in 2020. And then WeChat is the next which is China centric. Nobody uses standard SMS except Americans.
https://engage.sinch.com/blog/most-popular-messaging-apps-in-the-world/
Signal?
I'm not saying what is good to use. I'm saying what is used. Everyone from grandma to the local store. If you want to survive communicating, you need to use WhatsApp everywhere in the world except the idiotic USA.
I personally use other apps like signal and telegram, but I also have WhatsApp because I have to and it is convenient enough. I'm ok that Meta gets a bit of data showing the amazon delivery driver and I shared a message at a certain time. It's useless data.
I'm trying to get friends into using manyverse myself. I'm trying to get away from corporate owned social media as much as possible, which is why I'm typing this right now on Lemmy.
You can try but rarely is it successful unless you're a super popular influencer. If Mr. Beast came out with a platform and said use it, he'd get a million users in a day, all of them evangelizing to their friend groups and maybe it would take off. Otherwise you're just going to get ignored unless it's easy enough.
WhatsApp is easy enough and good enough. It is not the best solution, but part of its allure is that it is owned by a big corporation. Governments and billion dollar companies use WhatsApp as their backbone because it is big. They aren't going to roll their own.
And when someone is completely against WhatsApp... Why? If it's because you hate Zuck and Meta, then fine. Personal grudges are fine with me, but not a valid reason to dislike the platform for everyone, just yourself. The data that they get is who you are sending messages to, when, and the overall size. Everything else can be blocked. The content of the messages is secure unless you decrypt and backup elsewhere. One of my WhatsApp numbers is on a number from a VoIP line not even tied to my name or ID in any way. Meta collects information that I am talking to hundreds of delivery drivers arranging my deliveries. I'm ok with that.
They don't have any of my info. I don't have any social media accounts apart from Lemmy and a now retired reddit. Works well enough. And the older people can use it easily enough. Getting my mother to switch to telegram? Isn't happening. But WhatsApp... She's down for that.
I was just talking about my friend group which is quite small. I don't really want to hear from people outside of that.
you had me in the first line
but no thanks Facebook app
Not a defense of Meta, just saying what's used. And if the option is completely insecure SMS or RCS vs WhatsApp, WhatsApp is a clear winner. If you could push everyone to a better app like a signal or telegram, sure. But the world is on WhatsApp. And if you look at how hard it is to get Americans off of SMS or iMessage, that's the issue you have with now 2 billion people minimum to get them to use a better more secure platform. And their perceived benefit for that trouble is near zero.
RCS can fuck off IMO
Lol, unexpected intensity. I'd love to hear your thoughts.
MMS is insecure, RCS is MMS on crack.
and yet I get crap about complaining about android and rooting it when this shit literally happens, on the regular.
Im sorry, i want to like android, but it's awful, and genuinely sucks.
Wait.... It sucks cause they are actively working to break it. Not because its flawed. Its no different than apples stupid bubbles.
I think the point is that if it can be sabotaged by a central authority, it sucks. Both Apple and Google suck.
IMO, it sucks because it's not built to be the platform that people say it is. It can act as the platform people say it is, on top of it's existing platform, which makes for a pretty messy and unenjoyable experience.
This just sounds like another "Google is slowing down Firefox" thing where everyone's source was a reddit post and didn't even turn out to be accurate
It didn't? Last I heard google responded that it was an attempt to delay video loading for adblock users which seemed to most to be a transparent excuse. I haven't followed it closely though, I'd be curious to know more if there's an update
No, it was a "bug" in windows that existed for way too many years
Verge article where the claim is due to ad blocker mitigation and not browser specific.
You said that you heard it was ad blocker related too. So the initial wave of reports about it being Firefox was inaccurate. Every article about it all sourced a singular reddit post. Just some social media "journalism".
Anecdotally, which I understand is not a great measure, I didn't experience this when it was first being reported on. But I pay for YouTube premium, so maybe that's a difference too