At least 2 previously undecided voters now support Biden so I suppose this headline is technically correct, it's just completely meaningless and insignificant statistically.
This comment says it better than I could. The debate was a disaster for Biden. Which sucks.
Samples size of a focus group on Univision...
It did quote a poll that Biden is only up 1% among Latino voters tho
Fucking insane that it's that close. But I guess when Biden literally copies trump illegal border policies, it's hard to get them scared of trump.
tbf, arent those border policies somewhat popular among some latino voters? Im not defending those policies as they dont align with my own views on the topic, but theres plenty of room for people that managed to get through the immigration system legally to look down of people who havent, or for people born in the country to dislike migration even if their ancestors did it, or for people that want to "pull up the ladder behind them" so to speak. Biden couldnt exactly expect Trump's border policies to automatically win him that demographic either way.
There’s also the fact that cartels run a lot of border towns. It’s not that border area Latinos are mad at illegal migration so much as they don’t want South Texas to be like Northern Mexico.
Also, it’s a little silly to treat Latinos as a single group. South Florida Cubans are different from everyone, basically. Recent immigrants are different from 2nd or 3rd generation ones. Ted Cruz’s full name is Rafael Edward Cruz and he’s different from people who aren’t bozos.
Ted Cruz’s full name is Rafael Edward Cruz and he’s different from people.
he's a reptillian in a skin suit. so he's basically different from humans. altogether.
when Biden literally copies trump illegal border policies
There are three big problems with immigration at the present moment:
There's a huge backlog of asylum / deportation cases which means people stay in custody in racist and oppressive overcrowded prisons
We're rate limiting the people coming into the country (see point #1), which means a lot of asylum seekers who are trying to do it legally wind up waiting for months (maybe years now, IDK) on the other side of the Mexican border, basically just living in a big, dangerous, squalid, crime-ridden open-air field with no facilities for life, and no job, no medical care for anyone no matter how young or old, it's fuckin dangerous
The whole agency in charge of the thing is racist and oppressive
Biden is unable fix the third without an act of God (or, without firing the whole system and then finding 40,000+ people who want to be immigration police who are not racist, so basically an act of God).
Biden is unable to fix the first two problems also, although they do have legislative solutions, because the Republicans block anything he does, even when he tried promising to do some cruel or racist things as a compromise in order to get them to also agree to some badly needed things (mostly, increasing ICE funding so they can at least house the people they have in better conditions, and increasing the number of judges to process cases so people don't wait for a year before their case is heard).
And, any time he tries to do anything about it, e.g. reducing the rate of people allowed to come across the border or increasing funding for ICE, everyone on the left as far as I can tell thinks he's just being cruel on purpose for no reason and gets really mad at him.
So my questions are:
What illegal border policies do you think Biden is copying?
What specific thing do you think he should do, instead of trying to increase the number of judges and the funding for ICE, and compromising with the Republicans to try to get it done when they block him on it?
I don't consider myself a Republican or a Democrat, although unless things change drastically in American politics, I can't see myself ever voting Republican by the time I'm dead and gone. With that said, I mentioned to someone yesterday that if I didn't have the experience of living through Trump's time in office, this debate would make me seriously consider voting for him.
I really don't believe that this debate is going to sway many undecided voters toward Biden. If you compare their performance at face value, Trump was unusually well-spoken, and Biden seemed like he belonged in a nursing home. Half of what Trump said was complete bullshit, but how many undecided voters are actually reading articles that show how full of it he really is?
What you have is a person who stated lies as fact and did a decent job of being convincing and a person who was generally truthful but seemed like he "wasn't all there." Undecided voters who "don't follow politics" are going to see this and say "You know, I think I understand why people support Trump." That's a very scary prospect.
I don't dislike Biden, but my personal opinion is that the best thing he could do for the country is step aside and let a different Democrat take the nomination. Geriatrics like Trump and Biden need to retire, do whatever they feel like in their golden years, and let someone else take the reins. A competent politician in his 50s or 60s would absolutely destroy Trump, and that's exactly what we need right now.
What you have is a person who stated lies as fact and did a decent job of being convincing and a person who was generally truthful but seemed like he “wasn’t all there.” Undecided voters who “don’t follow politics” are going to see this and say “You know, I think I understand why people support Trump.” That’s a very scary prospect.
to be fair to Biden, he wasn't all there. I mean, he had a cold, and if that doesn't fog things up, the medications would.
But, I feel like somebody on his Campaign programing team should have pointed out that if the win-conditions for a successful debate is literally staying alive (see John Olliver rant,) that there wasn't really much to be gained by it in the first place. it's not like we don't know their positions. we've already had 4 years of these guys. (well, 3.5 for biden. close enough for politics.)
If you want democrats to win, you shouldn't delude yourself with this stupid article that takes the opinion of one undecided voter (asked out of a group of about a dozen people) and pretend this is something that applies to undecided voters at large. This is copium on the level of 2016 and we'd all be better off if we didn't huff this bullshit. We should be taking steps to improve our chances, not gaslighting ourselves.
I don’t trust Newsweek, you probably shouldn’t either. However, with that being said… if the debate would have gone differently, and let’s just say Joe had a bad sore throat instead of “a cold,” and Joe went up there and said nothing at all, he’d still have my vote in this election. Honestly, I think if Joe would have said nothing, and just let Trump lie, that would have been better than how it went.
He appeared as weak, and a bit incoherent up there. He resorted to name calling on multiple occasions.
Trump lied about 90% of the things he said. Trump sounded better, and didn’t really take the cheap shots at Biden that we expected.
There was nothing about that debate that would have swayed “undecided voters” (who’s that by the way) to vote FOR Biden as a result of the debate. The number of lies coming from Trump may have persuaded some people to vote against him however.
Idk why you mention the trustworthiness of Newsweek. This is an article about a Univision focus group.
You don’t know why I mention Newsweek when the link for the post goes to Newsweek?
This would be like me saying not to trust the OP because he posted the link. Figure it out, bud.
So what you’re saying is that you saw the link was Newsweek, and then decided to read it anyway, instead of dismissing anything in it as potentially non-credible.
That’d be like if someone lied to you their whole life, but you believe them this time because they’re citing DailyMail.
Nah, that’s not a good metaphor. Do better.
That’s a weak attempt at trolling. Try harder.
What kind of head in the sand, wishy-washy troglodyte is undecided for this election? We've already had 4 years of each, with 24 hour news coverage for literally everything they do.
According to this recent study, young people who want a more progressive option
"A majority (60%) think the U.S. should increase spending on social programs and increase taxes on businesses and wealthy Americans.
This survey finds no evidence that a rightward ideological shift would solve Biden’s problems with swing voters. Swing voters broadly think Biden needs to take more action to solve our country's problems and broadly lean left on economic and social issues. Only 16% say that Biden being “too liberal” is a reason they might not vote for him.
The top two issues swing voters select as actions that would make them definitely vote for Biden are raising taxes on the wealthy (23%) and raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour (18%)."
Young people are fucking stupid then if they think trump gets them anywhere nearer their goals.
Source- I was a dumb youth in my day. Vote for the car that gets you closest to your destination, not farther away from it. And definitely don't abstain and then complain after the fact that things are worse.
I think a lot of voters of every age vote against their own interests.
I mean honestly it's hard to imagine that a Trump presidency would be good for anyone who is not either part of the Trump family or already very wealthy.
Both are very true... I wish the DNC was willing to do whatever it takes to defeat him, even if that means going with a progressive candidate
The DNC needs to accept that this is the group they need to go after... And accept it for what it is, not think they're magically going to change... Convince Biden to drop out and nominate a progressive if they want to win.
I suppose that would make sense. Trump doubled down on tax cuts for the wealthy and burning the hell out of fossil fuels. So even if someone were oblivious to his lying, and Trump was able to "perform" more confidently, the end result were policies with grave implications. Also, on the one weak point with progressives, falling to protect Palestinians, Trump's criticism was that Biden wasn't pro Israel hard enough...
"One weak point" as in progressive's only weak argument, or as in the only thing Biden is weak on that they want?
Because there are quite a few other things Biden is weak on that progressives want.
Perhaps an oversimplification, but I'd say it's the one point that progressives are so pissed that they would tend to forget that the other likely choice would rather see more genocide. On other points I'd say progressives may wish for better, but are willing to be more pragmatic for now.
It's too bad those voters never show up.
They show up more than millennials, x, or boomers did at that age
According to this recent study, young people who want a more progressive option
I mean I know the young are generally ignorant by the simple fact of their age and lack of experience, but in what universe do they think that's an option? Maybe like 2 years ago we could have pushed for something, but now? It's Trump or Biden. Being undecided is just saying you don't know which of those two you would vote for, any other vote is just a vote for the person you like least to win.
The Dems could still push Biden to drop out and replace him with someone who might actually have a chance
Generously, people who were 14-16yo when Trump’s first term ended and weren’t fully aware of what was going on at the time.
Realistically, a large portion of ‘mainstream’ Republicans embarrassed by what the GOP has become - but still not certain if they can go against decades of Fox News programming and vote for a shudders Democrat.
New voters who never cared about politics previously, and may have just started paying attention when they to college and realized everyone there does. There's a precedent for that being the case at least heh
I feel like this implies the youth vote matters anywhere, and the one thing we all know is young people don't vote.
Yeah, that's why all these college campuses have had protests. They don't care.
That's not something new, young people traditionally have strong political opinions and fail to turn out for elections. Even in presidential elections, which are the highest turnout for the demographic, you're looking at maybe 40% in the standard year. Turnout was better during COVID when tensions were high and there was a lot of momentum to get Trump out, but even then it was in the realm of~50%.
Polls are all trash, but this focus group we believe.
This one affirms our convictions so it must be true
No one who saw that debate was inspired by Biden, no one. Ok maybe 1 out of 100, maybe. But 99 of them were not. Gaslighting won’t help, the goose is cooked.
It's like you didn't even read the article or what they said and are trying to pretend they said something else. Amazing that you would pull the term "gaslighting" out, it's almost as if you know what you are doing.
To reiterate he article, they were turned off by Trump's lies and repeating the same things and avoiding the questions. None says they were inspired by Biden.
Did you read the article? Here's a quote:
The clip shows a group of about a dozen people and one of them being interviewed by a journalist.
So you think this can be applied broadly to undecided voter sentiment in general?
Lol did you? It literally cites a single voter and a poll showing Trump trending better among Latinos than previous electoral performances for that demographic. Nothing in this article actually warranted the headline and meta polls show Trump still ahead. Delusion will only hand us another 4 years of Trump
You fighting to sow discord against the only viable alternative is working to get Trump, pointing out that regular people found reason to prefer his responses over Trump and highlighting what they are is useful in helping people highlight the many advantages of Biden.
Yes he's not as energetic as a lunatic, probably because he's a sensible human that's been working hard on his lifelong goal of improving the society he lives in and pushing through sensible and practical reforms that actually help real people and put the nation on track to deal with the many challenges it faces going forward.
Criticizing Biden right now is not "working to get Trump". Biden could easily step down and get behind an alternative candidate. These things aren't black and white when we're still like 4-5 months out from the election.
So nice job of not addressing the fact that you didn't read the article and nothing I said indicated that I'm trying to sow discord. I will vote for Biden and argue that others should as well
But pretending that the debate helped that cause is worthless. We are losing and pretending we are not doesn't help. Stop fighting with people pointing out reality and be more vocal on why to vote for Biden.
FR FR
One of those "Vote for me because I'm not my opponent" moments.
I supported Biden before the debate, I support him now after the debate. But now it's more of a "Ah fuck, look at this mess I'm going to be voting for, ah fuck what the fuck America aaaaaaah." Than it was before.
Do you feel like it's a mess now? I'm not voting for Biden because i think he is a good debater, I'm voting for him because hes done a perfectly fine job as president during some tough times. He's smart enough to let the systems that have held together for decades continue to function and to take advice from experts.
Trump wants to dismantle the government and fill it with trump loyalists, which adds even more incentive to make sure Biden wins.
Trump's lies were more obvious than normal. So there's that, I guess.
Maybe they just related to someone having trouble keeping up with a yelling idiot liar?
His lies seemed more artful and effortless to me, and he stayed calm and lucid the entire time.
Very capable delusions
The best fictionary
Make all the throwaway jokes you want but a low information voter would probably perceive him the way I described and wouldn't catch the lies. Trump may be older than in 2016/2020 but he appeared present and even reassuring to uninformed or on-the-fence previous Trump supporter eyes.
Yeah that's what propaganda does. I could absolutely see that MAGA and uninformed people would fall for this tripe.
BIDEN: I supported Roe v. Wade, which had three trimesters.
First time is between a woman and a doctor. Second time is between a doctor and an extreme situation. A third time is between the doctor – I mean, it’d be between the woman and the state.
The idea that the politicians – that the founders wanted the politicians to be the ones making decisions about a woman’s health is ridiculous. That’s the last – no politician should be making that decision. A doctor should be making those decisions. That’s how it should be run. That’s what you’re going to do.
And if I’m elected, I’m going to restore Roe v. Wade.
TRUMP: So that means he can take the life of the baby in the ninth month and even after birth, because some states, Democrat-run, take it after birth. Again, the governor – former governor of Virginia: put the baby down, then we decide what to do with it.
So he’s in – he’s willing to, as we say, rip the baby out of the womb in the ninth month and kill the baby.
Nobody wants that to happen. Democrat or Republican, nobody wants it to happen.
I think a big part of the problem is Biden is a good politician, he's generally honest and forthright which is what everyone claims to want.
But we're all so lost in marvel movie logic and cinema tropes that people don't respond to it, they just want a showman - meanwhile politics is boiled down to robot voice tiktoks and reddit posts that barely scratch the headline so again people don't respond to reality they need a hyper targeted exaggeration coated in catchy idealism and easily retweetable slogans.
Biden says exactly the right things, minis the sort of speech error we all make occasionally, and his record backs up his ability to actually get things done - often in a way that doesn't draw massive attention but incrementally makes things better.
Trump is a liar and an actual idiot, like genuinely stupid and uninformed - but he says anything that will sound good at the time so it makes it seem to people that aren't paying attention or follow complex arguments that he's the one who'll get things done
You're not wrong, but the people you describe aren't the ones this article is about.
I'll agree, but he was at the same time more bold, like saying everyone wanted to overturn Roe v Wade. Confident and competent lying can get you far, but if you lie about how the people watching would feel, you undermine all your other lying.
There are few things more maddening than claiming you know how someone feels more than they themselves do. A very credible liar can be undone if they lie that well on a matter the audience personally knows better. Suddenly all the benefit of the doubt purchased by the confidence is erased.
Agreed. How about the other guy? Was anybody inspired by him?
I'm really sad that it's come to this. It's how I feel when my coworkers vote to go out to a sushi restaurant. I don't like fish and I'm allergic to shellfish, so I eat my pile of steamed rice and bite my tongue when they want to split the bill equally.
What was I talking about again?
I was thinking the debate rules actually saved Trump from his worst impulses. Biden was allowed to speak at full length and Trump gets to appear like he can participate in a civilized conversation while Biden would sometimes go off the rails while trying to fill his time. A lot of his embarrassments started in a decent place, but pivoted badly in the middle.
Trump confidently lied repeatedly without consequences, and so long as someone is unaware that it's lies, I could imagine them finding Trump's rhetoric credible that night.
You have a very interesting point about the muted mics actually being in Trump's favor while simultaneously allowing Biden to ramble like Grandpa Simpson.
I learned absolutely nothing new from the debate. Trump is a habitual liar and Biden is a doddering old man. Out of our two wonderful choices I'll be voting Democrat but I still wouldn't trust either of them to drive a car I'm in let alone run the country.
yeah but I bet they were suddenly worried
Perhaps, but I think there's a lot of people overstating the impact Biden's performance will have on the end result.
November is a long way off. There's plenty of time for either party to fuck things up.
Trump's legal stuff still has a way to run between now and November which I think will have a far bigger impact.
The problem is the only people saying this are people who have been saying the same things for the whole time and are desperate for it to ve true so it's hard to believe them, it's not coming from my friends that weren't yelling about Biden every excuse they got.
It's like thuderfoots recent starliner stream, he predicted it would fail and spent the whole time saying 'oh shit, here it goes... looks like it's going to explode...' even when both bits were returned safely he was calling the spaceX staff morons for celebrating because he was so desperate to be right.
People wanted Biden to fail because then they could push their brand of politics but he's doing great based on actual metrics, so they try to make him fail using opion and tone setting behavior - the exact way Trump beat Hillary, memed that she was bad until no one went to vote.
What? I wanted Biden to succeed. And he wasn’t doing good in the metrics, his approval ratings were bad, being other dems who are way ahead of him in polls. He was tied with Trump, which is insane given how bad of a candidate Trump is. Most all voters (65% I think) thought he was too old before the debate and wanted another choice.
What will they think now?
No, but Trump blatantly lying about everything, and refusing to admit that he was convicted possibly did turn some "undecided" voters away from him. This election isn't so much voting for Biden, as it is against Trump. Or for Trump for the idiots that vote for the felon.
Undecided Latino voters specifically according to the article. I don't think that should be too surprising based on the lies Trump was spewing about illegal immigration.
It's so stupid that there are "undecided" latino voters at this point. As if it wasn't enough to know that Trump was a liar when he mentioned that Mexican immigrants were criminals and rapists back then?
Oh good, I guess Biden has absolutely nothing to worry about then...
Democrats will continue to act like he's gonna coast into office by virtue of not being Trump. They will continue to ignore all warnings from their left. And they will blame the left when he loses. It's the 2016 playbook all over again.
I guess it depends on what you mean by Democrats. There were some quite high ranked people openly critical and suggesting replacing him (more than I would expect). Dems are not a singular entity… but the only person with the power to replace the candidate at this point in time is Joe Biden himself. So if he doesn’t step down I do expect most high-ranked Dems to fall in line.
If he loses. Maybe the complacent non-voters learned something. No thanks to the Ds, but neither Trump nor Biden winning is a done deal
Any lesson they might learn is a one way trip to hell with no way back
If he loses? What's he doing to win? Which group of voters is he trying to pick up? Netanyahu can't vote for him. Republicans won't vote for him no matter how many of their policies he adopts.
Centrist Democrats alone aren't enough. No matter how large a majority they think they command.
Leftists who aren't completely brain-dead will of course vote for his administration.
Calling people braindead is a great way to win them over.
I don't think winning you over was their goal.
I'm not even one of the people they're talking about, since I intend to vote for Biden.
This is literally a new article about an X post where they're interviewing some Latinos.. Objectively, the cope is insane. Joe is fucked
Yeah this is reporting on the feedback from a focus group of like 20 people conducted by some Latino TV station... Not sure how representative that is of the wider electorate...
As a decided Joe Biden voter I am confused but I thank you.
In this thread:
Everyone not on the Right doing what they do best:
Argue incessantly with one another.
And ya'll wonder why the Left struggles so often.
This is unfortunately true. We have the same shit in Germany. The Nazis are uniting while the left fight each other because one doesn't support lgbtq+ enough, the other group forgot to gender correctly, other hardliners won't go to pro-democracy protests because CDU voters are amongst them. It's pathetic. We need a strong and united front against the far right. Not this hissy bullshit.
That phrase "Don't let perfect get in the way of good" is our stumbling block. We want our candidate to support everything we support and no less. Friggin' Trump is a rapist, a traitor, a racist, etc., but if he says he wants let's say Christianity to be the national religion, the Christians are like "Hey he supports us, we'll vote for him," and completely ignore everything else. Single issue, boom, they're in. The left needs to value unity over their individual issues right now.
If you want to see a great example of this is in a comment section, watch the comments on Boing Boing for a bit. The site used to be one of the top 100 sites, IIRC, and maybe still is, and the comments used to be rather fun and interesting. In recent years, it's been take over by a very far-left fringe with a very particular interest in just checking off boxes and playing "oppression olympics". It's a textbook case of this. I got on there a few years ago and made a few comments in defense of sanity and unity among the left.
Some of the best posts making great points got taken down in quick order, even though I was entirely civil the entire time. Those arguing against me - if not the mods themselves - were absolutely violating the supposed rules - had theirs all left up, even if it was using things like ad hominem or just using dumb and overused giphy memes as a supposed "response". Even anyone that tried to cut a middle ground between me and this echo chamber had their posts nuked, too.
Anyone on the fence witnessing such a thing is not going to vote for leftists, I can tell you that much. If they don't vote for donnie (or his next version), they'll just sit out on elections.
Keep the masses divided and all that jazz
Not arguing among each other is what helped turn the party of Lincoln to what it is today.
I think its a social defense mechanism, I met an old bastard who saw it in full swing after Catalonia when he was a teen. When a bunch of unions where he lived purged out authoritarian elements especially if they sympathized with the Soviets. Basically use debate to figure out who is stupid, lying, or compromised so that you can deal with them. Such things are helped along by it being a semi-constant force.
This is not surprising, because everyone knows Latinos are avid golfers. Why wouldn’t they support the candidate with a 6, uh, I meant 8, handicap?
Democratic party would crush it if only they replaced Biden with a younger candidate. I'm telling you, even republicans might switch over and vote democrat if this happens.
Lol, have you seen a Republican recently?
Yes, have you?? I actually happen to live amongst them, which may sound exotic to some Lemmings.
"I hate Trump, but Joe is a walking corpse" is not an uncommon sentiment.
Are they aware that even an almost-corpse could follow their advisors and therefore end up having an effective presidency? As long as Biden doesn't start doing random senile shit (and be realistic, he's far from that)
To a lot of these voters it's not about having a logical cabinet nor even policy. It's the individual as a character representing our nation, and to them Trump is better spoken than Biden even if what most of he says has little basis in reality.
This is why Obama had such a good time with swing voters, it's not really about the policies from what I see. I'm shocked no party since 2008 has tried running a younger candidate. I'd love to see someone younger debate Trump. Like Pete Buttigieg for example. Like ya he's still a career politician, but I suspect he'd do much better at making the insane stuff Trump says sound insane.
If they haven't changed their minds yet, then they aren't going to. It's time to try someone different.
Besides, you're not even needing Republican votes. You just need undecided votes and to energize democratic voters who hate both candidates with age being a big factor.
The presidency needs to be reframed. It's not some position of ultimate power. Presidents have far less control than the general public thinks, or the media would have you believe.
To get anything lasting done you need all three branches working together and with this court, and congress....
I actually happen to live amongst them
I do too, which is why I know that you are wrong.
If Biden decided to step down, his delegates are pledged to support Kamala Harris. So it's either him or her.
Still certain Democrats would crush it without Biden?
If Biden decided to step down, his delegates are pledged to support Kamala Harris.
I've tried to verify that this is the case and can't find evidence anywhere. Can you point me to a source? I was under the impression that they'd be expected to turn to her, but that they're not required to.
Edit: After lengthy back and forth, it finally became clear that this is simply an opinion. User has absolutely no proof.
They aren't required. But Biden/Harris delegates aren't chosen randomly, they are Democrats who have demonstrated loyalty towards Biden and Harris and have personally pledged to support them.
But they're not "Biden/Harris delegates". They're Biden delegates, as he was the only name on the ballot. Are you just saying they'll go with her out of deference?
Fair point. I think they would absolutely go with Harris. Partly out of deference, partly because she would remain in control of the Biden/Harris $100 million warchest and ground operations org, partly because her name can't be taken off the general ballot in multiple states, and partly because Democrats need to campaign on women's rights and it would look awful to pass over a Black woman.
I also think that Newsom/Whitmer/Beshear/Pritzker et al are not interested in replacing Biden. They will inherit chaos, are very likely to lose in the general, and that will be the end of their presidential aspirations.
partly because her name can’t be taken off the general ballot in multiple states
Again, where is your proof of this? Ballots haven't been finalized anywhere in the country, as Biden isn't even officially the nominee yet. You keep saying these things as if they're set in stone, but from what I can tell they're not. Do you have proof that ballots have been printed before the convention, or that states have closed the registration window for running mates before closing the registration window for candidates?
Note: I agree with the rest of what you said, for the most part.
As you suggest it's a regulatory problem. There was a recent kerfuffle involving the Ohio ballot, which was solved by putting Biden/Harris on the ballot before they are officially nominated. So any changes made at the Democratic convention will come too late to change the Ohio ballot.
There was a similar issue in Alabama, but it looks like they just moved their deadline after the convention.
As you suggest it’s a regulatory problem. There was a recent kerfuffle involving the Ohio ballot, which was solved by putting Biden/Harris on the ballot before they are officially nominated. So any changes made at the Democratic convention will come too late to change the Ohio ballot.
.....nnnnno. That's not what's happening in Ohio. From your article:
President Joe Biden will be formally nominated as the Democratic presidential nominee through a virtual roll call ahead of the party’s official convention in Chicago in August
The Democratic National Convention, where the president would otherwise be formally nominated, comes after Ohio’s ballot deadline of Aug. 7. The party’s convention is scheduled for Aug. 19-22.
I really hate to repeat myself because it seems like you're engaging sincerely and at least trying to support your argument, but there are currently no ballots that have been formalized in the entire country. Biden and Harris have not been put on the ballot before they're nominated, they're being nominated before the ballot access deadline in Ohio. So quite simply, as long as the Democrats nominate any US-born person older than 35, that person's name will appear on the Ohio ballot. You have it quite literally backwards.
Are you supposing that the party could settle on a non-Harris replacement for Biden before their convention??
Getting delegates to agree on someone other Harris in smoke-filled backrooms in Chicago is unwise and unlikely, but at least within the realm of possibility.
Getting them to agree before they've even met sounds like pure fiction. And that's what would be necessary to meet the Aug 7 deadline. Kamala Harris will be on the Ohio ballot no matter what happens in Chicago.
So his delegates are not pledged to Harris, they aren't required to support Harris, her name isn't on a single ballot in the country, Biden's name isn't on a single ballot in the country, and no one has officially been nominated. You've offered no proof to the contrary.
Whether you think a change is likely before ballots are finalized was not my question, merely whether or not you had proof that it's impossible.
I think it's impossible to replace Harris before Aug 7.
Even the staunchest proponents of running Newsom (or whoever) hope to accomplish this in Chicago.
Will someone please come out and say what the problem with Kamala Harris is? I see people hinting about it all the time, but I have no idea what it’s all about.
Her record as DA is problematic for a lot of people. She was labeling herself as a progressive, but then behaved as a conservative. Fought to keep a lot of people in prison for minor offenses, fought to keep the death penalty, etc. While doing that, she had a book out about criminal justice reform… and went against her own advice. Pretty much a lap-dog for conservative criminal justice policy. Overall, blatantly hypocritical to anyone that was paying attention.
Thanks for explaining.
I have a problem with many of her past decisions but, the same goes for Biden. Both are still a significantly better choice than Trump.
Is she pro genocide? My only problem with Biden is his age and Israel policy, and I have no idea what hers are.
Unfortunately, anyone who has any real chance of being president isn't going to do anything meaningful to stop what is happening in Gaza.
It's because she's a woman. They're scared.
It’s certainly true that women who rise to the top of national politics get relentlessly, negatively caricatured (Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi). With Kamala Harris it’s different because a lot of the murmuring comes from Democrats and they never say why.
All undecided voters in a U.S. swing states focus group hosted by pollster Frank Luntz said President Biden should be replaced as the Democratic nominee after watching his first presidential debate against former President Trump.
Newsweek is tabloid-adjacent.
Biden is underperforming his 2020 run by pretty much every metric. It's time to try something different while we still have time.
Lol. There is no time. Replacing an incumbent at the last minute is a death sentence for a political campaign. It would be the most foolish option. Even if Biden came out and said he's stepping back and letting Kamala Harris take the spot, you'd be fighting an uphill battle for people who haven't been paying attention to her work as VP, which the uninformed thinks does nothing.
That's not even taking into account all the sexist and racist shitheads who have been doing all the fear mongering and hand-wringing about the prospect of Harris becoming president by simply being VP. We have a bunch of really shitty people in this country...
That is complete and utter bullshit and smarter minds than me are already advising it, including one of the biggest analysts in the industry, Nate Silver. Here, let me walk you through it:
I've thought this through for quite some time and I think you're missing the opportunity for Democrats to seize the narrative.
"We listened to voters who were unsatisfied with either candidate, a large majority who said age is a real concern for them."
"Joe Biden stepped down for the American People to let a younger generation lead."
FREE VIRAL MEDIA TIME for months on end about the fresh face of the Democratic party.
A complete lack of developed right-wing talking-points to disseminate.
It doesn't have to -- nor should it be -- Harris. I can think of half a dozen other candidates with semi-national profiles who could easily surge in polling with such viral media attention following a Biden resignation.
All we know is what doesn't work, and what doesn't work was shown last night. It has been showing in poll after poll after poll despite people burying their heads in the sand: a President with approval ratings in the 30s, and a Presidential candidate who is FAR behind in every data-point compared to where he was in 2020. Need I remind you that Biden took this debate out of pure desperation to begin with, and now he's now 2 full steps further back than where he needs to be as my link on battle-ground undecided voters proves.
I've listened to Jon Stewart, Katie Couric, 2 different NYT podcasts, post-PBS analysis, Pod Save America (former Obama/VP Biden staffers), Washington Week roundtable -- and they are all echoing the same fucking thing:
It is time to try something different.
Given the timing that nearly all the primaries are done, his replacement would necessarily be someone no one even has the chance to vote on. This is a tremendous risk.
However, if he announced someone like "announcing my new chief of staff: Obama"...
That would be interesting and I'm frankly open to it.
I don't think people not voting is a big deal because frankly we didn't have a legitimate primary season this cycle anyway. More importantly, if Biden himself voluntarily stepped down and endorsed someone else, then that at least channels those votes through Biden.
I'm laughing my ass off that you even try to source Nate Silver. Member when he was right those two times a long ass time ago? 🙄
You checked his accuracy rate, friend? It's not good. He makes prediction models, buddy. Well, then after they aren't very good, he writes a ton about how they were actually great and everyone misunderstood what the data REALLY was saying.
I'm laughing you don't seem to understand how statistics and probability work. But please, DO tell how he was wrong -- I'm going to enjoy this.
But hey, excellent attempt to cop-out of the myriad of other points in my comment, buddy. Can only respond to maybe 10% of a comment but want to try to take down a leading statistician? Okie-dokie!
Man its already a death sentance. They can't hurt it any more than than that debate did.
As literally every single outlet has already pointed out, plenty of other candidates have had the same issue, and come right back from it. Y'all need to chill out.
You cannott undo dementia or Alzheimers the mans brain is going. With how few press conferences and speeches he has done without a teleprompter its fairly clear that this is NOT new.
He needs to grow a pair and gracefully step down, or he is just handing this to Trump on a silver platter.
If Biden is the head of the ticket he’s going to lose. Full stop.
Absolutely. And given his rate of decline, how fucked are we if he suffers a medical emergency one month out?
I'm laughing that I submit 2 different focus groups of undecided voters saying the opposite and it's down-voted into oblivion.
But this copium is upvoted...
But I was told that all Biden's answers were completely incoherent? You're telling me that the media is making a big deal out of a few moments in the debate?! That's never happened before!
I'm a staunch Bernie Sanders supporter. I have worked for his team.
I don't know how else to say this: Joe Biden's performance last night was a caricature of every negative stereotype the opposition throws at him.
I'm really disheartened that my fellow Democrats don't see the glaring issues from the debate. Did you watch it? This question might seem inflammatory, but I am genuinely concerned.
I desperately wanted Trump to be frustrated by having his mic muted, but I never expected Biden to become the caricature the GOP was hoping for. Unfortunately, that's what happened.
Ignoring what just happened is dangerous. It's this kind of blind dissent that got us Trump in the first place. We're in trouble. If we ignore it now and end up with Trump again, the blame will be on those who are ignoring the problem right now.
We're basically hooped unless Joe decides to throw in the towel. Just about anyone not psychotic half his age could very easily beat trump. How do we get there?
My main concern is that many fellow Democrats aren't seeing the issues with Biden's performance. This blind spot is dangerous and reminiscent of how we got Trump in the first place. Ignoring these glaring issues won't help us move forward. We need to recognize and address these problems now.
At the end of the day, I trust the people around Joe to, at the very least, not maliciously fuck over the country. Can’t say the same about Trump.
With these two choices, I’ll go for not fucking over the country thank you.
There's no way to replace Joe without his consent. Do you have any real ideas how that can be accomplished?
Do you have any real ideas...
Sorry, where did I say I was here to solve a problem?
Just pointing it out. Cheers.
Hardcore dems have always been delusional cultists with zero self-awareness.
🙄
I don’t know how else to say this: Joe Biden’s performance last night was a caricature of every negative stereotype the opposition throws at him.
I was reminded of all the ageist insults that Clinton supporters said about Sanders when he was a spry young 75.
I watched maybe 3 minutes. Turned it on about 35 minutes into it. It was apparent within the first 15 seconds that it was a problem.
No man it was legitimately bad. Biden did horrible. I'm terrified that we're gonna see a significant slip in the polls after that disaster.
This just adds to the growing list of journalists that are discovering people in rural red areas aren't going to vote for an asshole after all, MAGAs excepted.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Headlines about the Biden stumbling over his words and being difficult to hear have not stopped since he and Trump went head-to-head in the first 2024 presidential debate in Atlanta.
One man said he would vote for Biden because "Trump sounded like a crazy liar," according to Matt A. Barreto, professor of Political Science and Chicana/o & Central American Studies at UCLA.
His growing popularity among Latinos, as well as with other minority groups like Black Americans, is often cast as a surprise given his rhetoric about Mexican migrants.
When it came to the topic of immigration in Thursday's debate, Trump said, among other things: "There have been many young women murdered by the same people he allows to come across our border.
Trump and Biden made reference to a recent headline-making case in which two Venezuelan men, who entered the U.S. illegally, were arrested on suspicion of killing a 12-year-old Houston girl whose body was found in a creek after she disappeared while walking to a shop.
Researcher economist Elisa Jácome concluded that "immigrants with lower levels of education today are significantly less likely to commit crimes than their U.S.-born counterparts."
The original article contains 562 words, the summary contains 192 words. Saved 66%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Pure copium.
This message brought to you by the Ministry of Truth.
War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.
And to add something with more substance than straight eye rolling sarcasm, amazing that the non-english speakers loved his performance.
Lets get one of those translators on the ballot.
Old Joe Biden in the only politician to ever beat Donald Trump in an election, and he's going to do it again, and that's the fact Jack
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
Downvoted for literally an accurate 1984 reference with no other commentary.
It just seemed to fit so perfectly. Bluster is not going to see the Democrats through this election.
Bluster is all they have left, so let's blow the left half of America's mind and have a Bernie/Khanna ticket.
How rad would that be?
Bet it could beat Trump.
After Biden gets kicked for age? I don't think it would fly. We need someone in the goldilocks zone if we're doing this at all.
So... Khanna?
He could work, so could Newsom, Whitmer, Pritzker, and Shapiro. Newsom because of his name recognition from taking a defiant stance against DeSantis and the others because they're governors of key states.
Tell us again how you’re not MAGA? Nearly everything you post is the same repetitive anti-Biden rhetoric. Yet never offering any realistic suggestions to overcome the problem. Nothing but negativity and pointing out flaws.
That essentially the definition of propaganda.
"Everyone to my left must be maga!" - centrists who want to discredit anyone to their left and only their left by lying about them.
Says the guy who magically arrives to defend the MAGA bots any time someone so much as looks at them.
You lied about blocking me, and the only "evidence" you ever have about someone being a "maga bot" is that they don't agree with you.
Did I?
Or did you not read what I said about blocking you? Maybe go back and reread my words. Then come back here and apologize for accusing me of what seems to be your singular purpose here.
You will never be owed an apology by anyone.
Yeah, you said that you would block me temporarily and would unblock me at any time. It was horseshit at the time and we both knew it. You never blocked me. Just like when you lied about ignoring me.
You don't like people pointing out that your baseless accusations have no evidence and no merit. You're just lying about people who disagree with you.
Oh I assure you that I blocked you. But it doesn’t matter because from the standpoint of a known troll, (easily verified by your comment history) you can’t be wrong under any circumstance.
I’ll block you whenever I wish so as to put you in a little corner until I feel I have the patience and/or willingness to deal with someone rewriting my words and shouting them back at me. This is seemingly all you can do. So knowing you can’t argue in good faith- I owe you nothing more or less. I’ve tried reasoning with you. You’re showing that you’re seemingly incapable of it.
You’re a troll. (again, verified by your comment history here) And because of this, I will never engage with you on your terms. So just know that when I get bored of you- I’ll block you again.
And again….
And again…
I stand by my comment history. You do nothing but scream "maga bot" at anyone to your left and only your left. You just want to do so without anyone pointing it out.
Now "block" me again.
K. And you scream gEnoCiDe sUpPorTeR at anyone that even come close to suggesting that Biden isn’t that bad.
And I’ll block you when I think I need to and no sooner.
For the time we have left, when I see your name, I will replay the entire Clem Fandango clip in my head. Because JimSamtanko is just about as useful as Clem Fandango.
You have to know that I have no fucking clue what you’re taking about. But then again, you’re probably used to that as you never seem to either.
I was gonna respond directly, but then I saw the lineage of this post.
It is literally a hall of fame battle of people I blocked on kbin.social (you included you boomer boot licking fascist with the audacity to have the immortal Johnny Ramone as your profile pic) vs people I loved on kbin.social (who sometimes get a little tied up in the weeds, but are thorough and actually put effort into processing new information).
Low key crushing on you all... and getting my block button fired up for half yall.
Considering the fat orange liar is the only alternative, kinda expected some increase to the laid back side
What's more important liberals? The United States of America or the Democratic party?
Which one would you let go of first?
Ranked Choice voting or barbarism. Take your pick. I couldn't give a shit less what you pick to be honest. I didn't have kids. The pain ends with me.
Pick.
wtf are you talking about?
I think he wants us to vote Trump to justify his doomerism? If things go well then he has to think about the future and act on plans, he'd rather screw up the dems than see things continue to improve under Biden. Seems to be the thinking of most the 'I'm above politics because I'm unflinchingly negative about everything'
maybe, I mean it tracks with enlightened centrism people speaking utter nonsense while trying to sound deep and thought provoking... but it still bothers me. what does it mean to let go of the democratic party or the united states...
Yeah sure!!
Dark Brandon has seen your comment and is most disappointed, he believes in us, our our country, the other guy wants to wipe his ass with it, again. Easy choice.
At least 2 previously undecided voters now support Biden so I suppose this headline is technically correct, it's just completely meaningless and insignificant statistically.
This comment says it better than I could. The debate was a disaster for Biden. Which sucks.
Samples size of a focus group on Univision...
It did quote a poll that Biden is only up 1% among Latino voters tho
Fucking insane that it's that close. But I guess when Biden literally copies trump illegal border policies, it's hard to get them scared of trump.
tbf, arent those border policies somewhat popular among some latino voters? Im not defending those policies as they dont align with my own views on the topic, but theres plenty of room for people that managed to get through the immigration system legally to look down of people who havent, or for people born in the country to dislike migration even if their ancestors did it, or for people that want to "pull up the ladder behind them" so to speak. Biden couldnt exactly expect Trump's border policies to automatically win him that demographic either way.
There’s also the fact that cartels run a lot of border towns. It’s not that border area Latinos are mad at illegal migration so much as they don’t want South Texas to be like Northern Mexico.
Also, it’s a little silly to treat Latinos as a single group. South Florida Cubans are different from everyone, basically. Recent immigrants are different from 2nd or 3rd generation ones. Ted Cruz’s full name is Rafael Edward Cruz and he’s different from people who aren’t bozos.
he's a reptillian in a skin suit. so he's basically different from humans. altogether.
There are three big problems with immigration at the present moment:
Biden is unable fix the third without an act of God (or, without firing the whole system and then finding 40,000+ people who want to be immigration police who are not racist, so basically an act of God).
Biden is unable to fix the first two problems also, although they do have legislative solutions, because the Republicans block anything he does, even when he tried promising to do some cruel or racist things as a compromise in order to get them to also agree to some badly needed things (mostly, increasing ICE funding so they can at least house the people they have in better conditions, and increasing the number of judges to process cases so people don't wait for a year before their case is heard).
And, any time he tries to do anything about it, e.g. reducing the rate of people allowed to come across the border or increasing funding for ICE, everyone on the left as far as I can tell thinks he's just being cruel on purpose for no reason and gets really mad at him.
So my questions are:
I don't consider myself a Republican or a Democrat, although unless things change drastically in American politics, I can't see myself ever voting Republican by the time I'm dead and gone. With that said, I mentioned to someone yesterday that if I didn't have the experience of living through Trump's time in office, this debate would make me seriously consider voting for him.
I really don't believe that this debate is going to sway many undecided voters toward Biden. If you compare their performance at face value, Trump was unusually well-spoken, and Biden seemed like he belonged in a nursing home. Half of what Trump said was complete bullshit, but how many undecided voters are actually reading articles that show how full of it he really is?
What you have is a person who stated lies as fact and did a decent job of being convincing and a person who was generally truthful but seemed like he "wasn't all there." Undecided voters who "don't follow politics" are going to see this and say "You know, I think I understand why people support Trump." That's a very scary prospect.
I don't dislike Biden, but my personal opinion is that the best thing he could do for the country is step aside and let a different Democrat take the nomination. Geriatrics like Trump and Biden need to retire, do whatever they feel like in their golden years, and let someone else take the reins. A competent politician in his 50s or 60s would absolutely destroy Trump, and that's exactly what we need right now.
to be fair to Biden, he wasn't all there. I mean, he had a cold, and if that doesn't fog things up, the medications would.
But, I feel like somebody on his Campaign programing team should have pointed out that if the win-conditions for a successful debate is literally staying alive (see John Olliver rant,) that there wasn't really much to be gained by it in the first place. it's not like we don't know their positions. we've already had 4 years of these guys. (well, 3.5 for biden. close enough for politics.)
If you want democrats to win, you shouldn't delude yourself with this stupid article that takes the opinion of one undecided voter (asked out of a group of about a dozen people) and pretend this is something that applies to undecided voters at large. This is copium on the level of 2016 and we'd all be better off if we didn't huff this bullshit. We should be taking steps to improve our chances, not gaslighting ourselves.
I don’t trust Newsweek, you probably shouldn’t either. However, with that being said… if the debate would have gone differently, and let’s just say Joe had a bad sore throat instead of “a cold,” and Joe went up there and said nothing at all, he’d still have my vote in this election. Honestly, I think if Joe would have said nothing, and just let Trump lie, that would have been better than how it went.
He appeared as weak, and a bit incoherent up there. He resorted to name calling on multiple occasions.
Trump lied about 90% of the things he said. Trump sounded better, and didn’t really take the cheap shots at Biden that we expected.
There was nothing about that debate that would have swayed “undecided voters” (who’s that by the way) to vote FOR Biden as a result of the debate. The number of lies coming from Trump may have persuaded some people to vote against him however.
Idk why you mention the trustworthiness of Newsweek. This is an article about a Univision focus group.
You don’t know why I mention Newsweek when the link for the post goes to Newsweek?
This would be like me saying not to trust the OP because he posted the link. Figure it out, bud.
So what you’re saying is that you saw the link was Newsweek, and then decided to read it anyway, instead of dismissing anything in it as potentially non-credible.
That’d be like if someone lied to you their whole life, but you believe them this time because they’re citing DailyMail.
Nah, that’s not a good metaphor. Do better.
That’s a weak attempt at trolling. Try harder.
What kind of head in the sand, wishy-washy troglodyte is undecided for this election? We've already had 4 years of each, with 24 hour news coverage for literally everything they do.
According to this recent study, young people who want a more progressive option
"A majority (60%) think the U.S. should increase spending on social programs and increase taxes on businesses and wealthy Americans.
This survey finds no evidence that a rightward ideological shift would solve Biden’s problems with swing voters. Swing voters broadly think Biden needs to take more action to solve our country's problems and broadly lean left on economic and social issues. Only 16% say that Biden being “too liberal” is a reason they might not vote for him.
The top two issues swing voters select as actions that would make them definitely vote for Biden are raising taxes on the wealthy (23%) and raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour (18%)."
https://www.dataforprogress.org/insights/2024/5/30/measuring-the-swing-evaluating-the-key-voters-of-2024
Young people are fucking stupid then if they think trump gets them anywhere nearer their goals.
Source- I was a dumb youth in my day. Vote for the car that gets you closest to your destination, not farther away from it. And definitely don't abstain and then complain after the fact that things are worse.
I think a lot of voters of every age vote against their own interests.
I mean honestly it's hard to imagine that a Trump presidency would be good for anyone who is not either part of the Trump family or already very wealthy.
Both are very true... I wish the DNC was willing to do whatever it takes to defeat him, even if that means going with a progressive candidate
The DNC needs to accept that this is the group they need to go after... And accept it for what it is, not think they're magically going to change... Convince Biden to drop out and nominate a progressive if they want to win.
I suppose that would make sense. Trump doubled down on tax cuts for the wealthy and burning the hell out of fossil fuels. So even if someone were oblivious to his lying, and Trump was able to "perform" more confidently, the end result were policies with grave implications. Also, on the one weak point with progressives, falling to protect Palestinians, Trump's criticism was that Biden wasn't pro Israel hard enough...
"One weak point" as in progressive's only weak argument, or as in the only thing Biden is weak on that they want?
Because there are quite a few other things Biden is weak on that progressives want.
Perhaps an oversimplification, but I'd say it's the one point that progressives are so pissed that they would tend to forget that the other likely choice would rather see more genocide. On other points I'd say progressives may wish for better, but are willing to be more pragmatic for now.
It's too bad those voters never show up.
They show up more than millennials, x, or boomers did at that age
I mean I know the young are generally ignorant by the simple fact of their age and lack of experience, but in what universe do they think that's an option? Maybe like 2 years ago we could have pushed for something, but now? It's Trump or Biden. Being undecided is just saying you don't know which of those two you would vote for, any other vote is just a vote for the person you like least to win.
The Dems could still push Biden to drop out and replace him with someone who might actually have a chance
Generously, people who were 14-16yo when Trump’s first term ended and weren’t fully aware of what was going on at the time.
Realistically, a large portion of ‘mainstream’ Republicans embarrassed by what the GOP has become - but still not certain if they can go against decades of Fox News programming and vote for a shudders Democrat.
New voters who never cared about politics previously, and may have just started paying attention when they to college and realized everyone there does. There's a precedent for that being the case at least heh
I feel like this implies the youth vote matters anywhere, and the one thing we all know is young people don't vote.
Yeah, that's why all these college campuses have had protests. They don't care.
That's not something new, young people traditionally have strong political opinions and fail to turn out for elections. Even in presidential elections, which are the highest turnout for the demographic, you're looking at maybe 40% in the standard year. Turnout was better during COVID when tensions were high and there was a lot of momentum to get Trump out, but even then it was in the realm of~50%.
Polls are all trash, but this focus group we believe.
This one affirms our convictions so it must be true
No one who saw that debate was inspired by Biden, no one. Ok maybe 1 out of 100, maybe. But 99 of them were not. Gaslighting won’t help, the goose is cooked.
It's like you didn't even read the article or what they said and are trying to pretend they said something else. Amazing that you would pull the term "gaslighting" out, it's almost as if you know what you are doing.
To reiterate he article, they were turned off by Trump's lies and repeating the same things and avoiding the questions. None says they were inspired by Biden.
Did you read the article? Here's a quote:
So you think this can be applied broadly to undecided voter sentiment in general?
Lol did you? It literally cites a single voter and a poll showing Trump trending better among Latinos than previous electoral performances for that demographic. Nothing in this article actually warranted the headline and meta polls show Trump still ahead. Delusion will only hand us another 4 years of Trump
You fighting to sow discord against the only viable alternative is working to get Trump, pointing out that regular people found reason to prefer his responses over Trump and highlighting what they are is useful in helping people highlight the many advantages of Biden.
Yes he's not as energetic as a lunatic, probably because he's a sensible human that's been working hard on his lifelong goal of improving the society he lives in and pushing through sensible and practical reforms that actually help real people and put the nation on track to deal with the many challenges it faces going forward.
Criticizing Biden right now is not "working to get Trump". Biden could easily step down and get behind an alternative candidate. These things aren't black and white when we're still like 4-5 months out from the election.
So nice job of not addressing the fact that you didn't read the article and nothing I said indicated that I'm trying to sow discord. I will vote for Biden and argue that others should as well
But pretending that the debate helped that cause is worthless. We are losing and pretending we are not doesn't help. Stop fighting with people pointing out reality and be more vocal on why to vote for Biden.
FR FR
One of those "Vote for me because I'm not my opponent" moments.
I supported Biden before the debate, I support him now after the debate. But now it's more of a "Ah fuck, look at this mess I'm going to be voting for, ah fuck what the fuck America aaaaaaah." Than it was before.
Do you feel like it's a mess now? I'm not voting for Biden because i think he is a good debater, I'm voting for him because hes done a perfectly fine job as president during some tough times. He's smart enough to let the systems that have held together for decades continue to function and to take advice from experts.
Trump wants to dismantle the government and fill it with trump loyalists, which adds even more incentive to make sure Biden wins.
Trump's lies were more obvious than normal. So there's that, I guess.
Maybe they just related to someone having trouble keeping up with a yelling idiot liar?
His lies seemed more artful and effortless to me, and he stayed calm and lucid the entire time.
Very capable delusions
The best fictionary
Make all the throwaway jokes you want but a low information voter would probably perceive him the way I described and wouldn't catch the lies. Trump may be older than in 2016/2020 but he appeared present and even reassuring to uninformed or on-the-fence previous Trump supporter eyes.
Yeah that's what propaganda does. I could absolutely see that MAGA and uninformed people would fall for this tripe.
BIDEN: I supported Roe v. Wade, which had three trimesters.
First time is between a woman and a doctor. Second time is between a doctor and an extreme situation. A third time is between the doctor – I mean, it’d be between the woman and the state.
The idea that the politicians – that the founders wanted the politicians to be the ones making decisions about a woman’s health is ridiculous. That’s the last – no politician should be making that decision. A doctor should be making those decisions. That’s how it should be run. That’s what you’re going to do.
And if I’m elected, I’m going to restore Roe v. Wade.
TRUMP: So that means he can take the life of the baby in the ninth month and even after birth, because some states, Democrat-run, take it after birth. Again, the governor – former governor of Virginia: put the baby down, then we decide what to do with it.
So he’s in – he’s willing to, as we say, rip the baby out of the womb in the ninth month and kill the baby.
Nobody wants that to happen. Democrat or Republican, nobody wants it to happen.
I think a big part of the problem is Biden is a good politician, he's generally honest and forthright which is what everyone claims to want.
But we're all so lost in marvel movie logic and cinema tropes that people don't respond to it, they just want a showman - meanwhile politics is boiled down to robot voice tiktoks and reddit posts that barely scratch the headline so again people don't respond to reality they need a hyper targeted exaggeration coated in catchy idealism and easily retweetable slogans.
Biden says exactly the right things, minis the sort of speech error we all make occasionally, and his record backs up his ability to actually get things done - often in a way that doesn't draw massive attention but incrementally makes things better.
Trump is a liar and an actual idiot, like genuinely stupid and uninformed - but he says anything that will sound good at the time so it makes it seem to people that aren't paying attention or follow complex arguments that he's the one who'll get things done
You're not wrong, but the people you describe aren't the ones this article is about.
I'll agree, but he was at the same time more bold, like saying everyone wanted to overturn Roe v Wade. Confident and competent lying can get you far, but if you lie about how the people watching would feel, you undermine all your other lying.
There are few things more maddening than claiming you know how someone feels more than they themselves do. A very credible liar can be undone if they lie that well on a matter the audience personally knows better. Suddenly all the benefit of the doubt purchased by the confidence is erased.
Agreed. How about the other guy? Was anybody inspired by him?
I'm really sad that it's come to this. It's how I feel when my coworkers vote to go out to a sushi restaurant. I don't like fish and I'm allergic to shellfish, so I eat my pile of steamed rice and bite my tongue when they want to split the bill equally.
What was I talking about again?
I was thinking the debate rules actually saved Trump from his worst impulses. Biden was allowed to speak at full length and Trump gets to appear like he can participate in a civilized conversation while Biden would sometimes go off the rails while trying to fill his time. A lot of his embarrassments started in a decent place, but pivoted badly in the middle.
Trump confidently lied repeatedly without consequences, and so long as someone is unaware that it's lies, I could imagine them finding Trump's rhetoric credible that night.
You have a very interesting point about the muted mics actually being in Trump's favor while simultaneously allowing Biden to ramble like Grandpa Simpson.
I learned absolutely nothing new from the debate. Trump is a habitual liar and Biden is a doddering old man. Out of our two wonderful choices I'll be voting Democrat but I still wouldn't trust either of them to drive a car I'm in let alone run the country.
yeah but I bet they were suddenly worried
Perhaps, but I think there's a lot of people overstating the impact Biden's performance will have on the end result.
November is a long way off. There's plenty of time for either party to fuck things up.
Trump's legal stuff still has a way to run between now and November which I think will have a far bigger impact.
The problem is the only people saying this are people who have been saying the same things for the whole time and are desperate for it to ve true so it's hard to believe them, it's not coming from my friends that weren't yelling about Biden every excuse they got.
It's like thuderfoots recent starliner stream, he predicted it would fail and spent the whole time saying 'oh shit, here it goes... looks like it's going to explode...' even when both bits were returned safely he was calling the spaceX staff morons for celebrating because he was so desperate to be right.
People wanted Biden to fail because then they could push their brand of politics but he's doing great based on actual metrics, so they try to make him fail using opion and tone setting behavior - the exact way Trump beat Hillary, memed that she was bad until no one went to vote.
What? I wanted Biden to succeed. And he wasn’t doing good in the metrics, his approval ratings were bad, being other dems who are way ahead of him in polls. He was tied with Trump, which is insane given how bad of a candidate Trump is. Most all voters (65% I think) thought he was too old before the debate and wanted another choice.
What will they think now?
No, but Trump blatantly lying about everything, and refusing to admit that he was convicted possibly did turn some "undecided" voters away from him. This election isn't so much voting for Biden, as it is against Trump. Or for Trump for the idiots that vote for the felon.
Undecided Latino voters specifically according to the article. I don't think that should be too surprising based on the lies Trump was spewing about illegal immigration.
It's so stupid that there are "undecided" latino voters at this point. As if it wasn't enough to know that Trump was a liar when he mentioned that Mexican immigrants were criminals and rapists back then?
Oh good, I guess Biden has absolutely nothing to worry about then...
Democrats will continue to act like he's gonna coast into office by virtue of not being Trump. They will continue to ignore all warnings from their left. And they will blame the left when he loses. It's the 2016 playbook all over again.
I guess it depends on what you mean by Democrats. There were some quite high ranked people openly critical and suggesting replacing him (more than I would expect). Dems are not a singular entity… but the only person with the power to replace the candidate at this point in time is Joe Biden himself. So if he doesn’t step down I do expect most high-ranked Dems to fall in line.
If he loses. Maybe the complacent non-voters learned something. No thanks to the Ds, but neither Trump nor Biden winning is a done deal
Any lesson they might learn is a one way trip to hell with no way back
If he loses? What's he doing to win? Which group of voters is he trying to pick up? Netanyahu can't vote for him. Republicans won't vote for him no matter how many of their policies he adopts.
Centrist Democrats alone aren't enough. No matter how large a majority they think they command.
Leftists who aren't completely brain-dead will of course vote for his administration.
Calling people braindead is a great way to win them over.
I don't think winning you over was their goal.
I'm not even one of the people they're talking about, since I intend to vote for Biden.
This is literally a new article about an X post where they're interviewing some Latinos.. Objectively, the cope is insane. Joe is fucked
Yeah this is reporting on the feedback from a focus group of like 20 people conducted by some Latino TV station... Not sure how representative that is of the wider electorate...
As a decided Joe Biden voter I am confused but I thank you.
In this thread:
Everyone not on the Right doing what they do best:
Argue incessantly with one another.
And ya'll wonder why the Left struggles so often.
This is unfortunately true. We have the same shit in Germany. The Nazis are uniting while the left fight each other because one doesn't support lgbtq+ enough, the other group forgot to gender correctly, other hardliners won't go to pro-democracy protests because CDU voters are amongst them. It's pathetic. We need a strong and united front against the far right. Not this hissy bullshit.
That phrase "Don't let perfect get in the way of good" is our stumbling block. We want our candidate to support everything we support and no less. Friggin' Trump is a rapist, a traitor, a racist, etc., but if he says he wants let's say Christianity to be the national religion, the Christians are like "Hey he supports us, we'll vote for him," and completely ignore everything else. Single issue, boom, they're in. The left needs to value unity over their individual issues right now.
If you want to see a great example of this is in a comment section, watch the comments on Boing Boing for a bit. The site used to be one of the top 100 sites, IIRC, and maybe still is, and the comments used to be rather fun and interesting. In recent years, it's been take over by a very far-left fringe with a very particular interest in just checking off boxes and playing "oppression olympics". It's a textbook case of this. I got on there a few years ago and made a few comments in defense of sanity and unity among the left.
Some of the best posts making great points got taken down in quick order, even though I was entirely civil the entire time. Those arguing against me - if not the mods themselves - were absolutely violating the supposed rules - had theirs all left up, even if it was using things like ad hominem or just using dumb and overused giphy memes as a supposed "response". Even anyone that tried to cut a middle ground between me and this echo chamber had their posts nuked, too.
Anyone on the fence witnessing such a thing is not going to vote for leftists, I can tell you that much. If they don't vote for donnie (or his next version), they'll just sit out on elections.
Keep the masses divided and all that jazz
Not arguing among each other is what helped turn the party of Lincoln to what it is today.
I think its a social defense mechanism, I met an old bastard who saw it in full swing after Catalonia when he was a teen. When a bunch of unions where he lived purged out authoritarian elements especially if they sympathized with the Soviets. Basically use debate to figure out who is stupid, lying, or compromised so that you can deal with them. Such things are helped along by it being a semi-constant force.
This is not surprising, because everyone knows Latinos are avid golfers. Why wouldn’t they support the candidate with a 6, uh, I meant 8, handicap?
Democratic party would crush it if only they replaced Biden with a younger candidate. I'm telling you, even republicans might switch over and vote democrat if this happens.
Lol, have you seen a Republican recently?
Yes, have you?? I actually happen to live amongst them, which may sound exotic to some Lemmings.
"I hate Trump, but Joe is a walking corpse" is not an uncommon sentiment.
Are they aware that even an almost-corpse could follow their advisors and therefore end up having an effective presidency? As long as Biden doesn't start doing random senile shit (and be realistic, he's far from that)
To a lot of these voters it's not about having a logical cabinet nor even policy. It's the individual as a character representing our nation, and to them Trump is better spoken than Biden even if what most of he says has little basis in reality.
This is why Obama had such a good time with swing voters, it's not really about the policies from what I see. I'm shocked no party since 2008 has tried running a younger candidate. I'd love to see someone younger debate Trump. Like Pete Buttigieg for example. Like ya he's still a career politician, but I suspect he'd do much better at making the insane stuff Trump says sound insane.
If they haven't changed their minds yet, then they aren't going to. It's time to try someone different.
Besides, you're not even needing Republican votes. You just need undecided votes and to energize democratic voters who hate both candidates with age being a big factor.
The presidency needs to be reframed. It's not some position of ultimate power. Presidents have far less control than the general public thinks, or the media would have you believe.
To get anything lasting done you need all three branches working together and with this court, and congress....
I do too, which is why I know that you are wrong.
If Biden decided to step down, his delegates are pledged to support Kamala Harris. So it's either him or her.
Still certain Democrats would crush it without Biden?
I've tried to verify that this is the case and can't find evidence anywhere. Can you point me to a source? I was under the impression that they'd be expected to turn to her, but that they're not required to.
Edit: After lengthy back and forth, it finally became clear that this is simply an opinion. User has absolutely no proof.
They aren't required. But Biden/Harris delegates aren't chosen randomly, they are Democrats who have demonstrated loyalty towards Biden and Harris and have personally pledged to support them.
But they're not "Biden/Harris delegates". They're Biden delegates, as he was the only name on the ballot. Are you just saying they'll go with her out of deference?
Fair point. I think they would absolutely go with Harris. Partly out of deference, partly because she would remain in control of the Biden/Harris $100 million warchest and ground operations org, partly because her name can't be taken off the general ballot in multiple states, and partly because Democrats need to campaign on women's rights and it would look awful to pass over a Black woman.
I also think that Newsom/Whitmer/Beshear/Pritzker et al are not interested in replacing Biden. They will inherit chaos, are very likely to lose in the general, and that will be the end of their presidential aspirations.
Again, where is your proof of this? Ballots haven't been finalized anywhere in the country, as Biden isn't even officially the nominee yet. You keep saying these things as if they're set in stone, but from what I can tell they're not. Do you have proof that ballots have been printed before the convention, or that states have closed the registration window for running mates before closing the registration window for candidates?
Note: I agree with the rest of what you said, for the most part.
As you suggest it's a regulatory problem. There was a recent kerfuffle involving the Ohio ballot, which was solved by putting Biden/Harris on the ballot before they are officially nominated. So any changes made at the Democratic convention will come too late to change the Ohio ballot.
There was a similar issue in Alabama, but it looks like they just moved their deadline after the convention.
.....nnnnno. That's not what's happening in Ohio. From your article:
I really hate to repeat myself because it seems like you're engaging sincerely and at least trying to support your argument, but there are currently no ballots that have been formalized in the entire country. Biden and Harris have not been put on the ballot before they're nominated, they're being nominated before the ballot access deadline in Ohio. So quite simply, as long as the Democrats nominate any US-born person older than 35, that person's name will appear on the Ohio ballot. You have it quite literally backwards.
Are you supposing that the party could settle on a non-Harris replacement for Biden before their convention??
Getting delegates to agree on someone other Harris in smoke-filled backrooms in Chicago is unwise and unlikely, but at least within the realm of possibility.
Getting them to agree before they've even met sounds like pure fiction. And that's what would be necessary to meet the Aug 7 deadline. Kamala Harris will be on the Ohio ballot no matter what happens in Chicago.
So his delegates are not pledged to Harris, they aren't required to support Harris, her name isn't on a single ballot in the country, Biden's name isn't on a single ballot in the country, and no one has officially been nominated. You've offered no proof to the contrary.
Whether you think a change is likely before ballots are finalized was not my question, merely whether or not you had proof that it's impossible.
I think it's impossible to replace Harris before Aug 7.
Even the staunchest proponents of running Newsom (or whoever) hope to accomplish this in Chicago.
Will someone please come out and say what the problem with Kamala Harris is? I see people hinting about it all the time, but I have no idea what it’s all about.
Her record as DA is problematic for a lot of people. She was labeling herself as a progressive, but then behaved as a conservative. Fought to keep a lot of people in prison for minor offenses, fought to keep the death penalty, etc. While doing that, she had a book out about criminal justice reform… and went against her own advice. Pretty much a lap-dog for conservative criminal justice policy. Overall, blatantly hypocritical to anyone that was paying attention.
Thanks for explaining.
I have a problem with many of her past decisions but, the same goes for Biden. Both are still a significantly better choice than Trump.
Is she pro genocide? My only problem with Biden is his age and Israel policy, and I have no idea what hers are.
Unfortunately, anyone who has any real chance of being president isn't going to do anything meaningful to stop what is happening in Gaza.
It's because she's a woman. They're scared.
It’s certainly true that women who rise to the top of national politics get relentlessly, negatively caricatured (Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi). With Kamala Harris it’s different because a lot of the murmuring comes from Democrats and they never say why.
https://www.axios.com/2024/06/28/joe-biden-replace-us-elections-2024
Newsweek is tabloid-adjacent.
Biden is underperforming his 2020 run by pretty much every metric. It's time to try something different while we still have time.
Lol. There is no time. Replacing an incumbent at the last minute is a death sentence for a political campaign. It would be the most foolish option. Even if Biden came out and said he's stepping back and letting Kamala Harris take the spot, you'd be fighting an uphill battle for people who haven't been paying attention to her work as VP, which the uninformed thinks does nothing.
That's not even taking into account all the sexist and racist shitheads who have been doing all the fear mongering and hand-wringing about the prospect of Harris becoming president by simply being VP. We have a bunch of really shitty people in this country...
That is complete and utter bullshit and smarter minds than me are already advising it, including one of the biggest analysts in the industry, Nate Silver. Here, let me walk you through it:
I've thought this through for quite some time and I think you're missing the opportunity for Democrats to seize the narrative.
It doesn't have to -- nor should it be -- Harris. I can think of half a dozen other candidates with semi-national profiles who could easily surge in polling with such viral media attention following a Biden resignation.
All we know is what doesn't work, and what doesn't work was shown last night. It has been showing in poll after poll after poll despite people burying their heads in the sand: a President with approval ratings in the 30s, and a Presidential candidate who is FAR behind in every data-point compared to where he was in 2020. Need I remind you that Biden took this debate out of pure desperation to begin with, and now he's now 2 full steps further back than where he needs to be as my link on battle-ground undecided voters proves.
I've listened to Jon Stewart, Katie Couric, 2 different NYT podcasts, post-PBS analysis, Pod Save America (former Obama/VP Biden staffers), Washington Week roundtable -- and they are all echoing the same fucking thing:
It is time to try something different.
Given the timing that nearly all the primaries are done, his replacement would necessarily be someone no one even has the chance to vote on. This is a tremendous risk.
However, if he announced someone like "announcing my new chief of staff: Obama"...
That would be interesting and I'm frankly open to it.
I don't think people not voting is a big deal because frankly we didn't have a legitimate primary season this cycle anyway. More importantly, if Biden himself voluntarily stepped down and endorsed someone else, then that at least channels those votes through Biden.
I'm laughing my ass off that you even try to source Nate Silver. Member when he was right those two times a long ass time ago? 🙄
You checked his accuracy rate, friend? It's not good. He makes prediction models, buddy. Well, then after they aren't very good, he writes a ton about how they were actually great and everyone misunderstood what the data REALLY was saying.
I'm laughing you don't seem to understand how statistics and probability work. But please, DO tell how he was wrong -- I'm going to enjoy this.
But hey, excellent attempt to cop-out of the myriad of other points in my comment, buddy. Can only respond to maybe 10% of a comment but want to try to take down a leading statistician? Okie-dokie!
Man its already a death sentance. They can't hurt it any more than than that debate did.
As literally every single outlet has already pointed out, plenty of other candidates have had the same issue, and come right back from it. Y'all need to chill out.
You cannott undo dementia or Alzheimers the mans brain is going. With how few press conferences and speeches he has done without a teleprompter its fairly clear that this is NOT new.
He needs to grow a pair and gracefully step down, or he is just handing this to Trump on a silver platter.
If Biden is the head of the ticket he’s going to lose. Full stop.
Absolutely. And given his rate of decline, how fucked are we if he suffers a medical emergency one month out?
I'm laughing that I submit 2 different focus groups of undecided voters saying the opposite and it's down-voted into oblivion.
But this copium is upvoted...
But I was told that all Biden's answers were completely incoherent? You're telling me that the media is making a big deal out of a few moments in the debate?! That's never happened before!
I'm a staunch Bernie Sanders supporter. I have worked for his team.
I don't know how else to say this: Joe Biden's performance last night was a caricature of every negative stereotype the opposition throws at him.
I'm really disheartened that my fellow Democrats don't see the glaring issues from the debate. Did you watch it? This question might seem inflammatory, but I am genuinely concerned.
I desperately wanted Trump to be frustrated by having his mic muted, but I never expected Biden to become the caricature the GOP was hoping for. Unfortunately, that's what happened.
Ignoring what just happened is dangerous. It's this kind of blind dissent that got us Trump in the first place. We're in trouble. If we ignore it now and end up with Trump again, the blame will be on those who are ignoring the problem right now.
We're basically hooped unless Joe decides to throw in the towel. Just about anyone not psychotic half his age could very easily beat trump. How do we get there?
My main concern is that many fellow Democrats aren't seeing the issues with Biden's performance. This blind spot is dangerous and reminiscent of how we got Trump in the first place. Ignoring these glaring issues won't help us move forward. We need to recognize and address these problems now.
At the end of the day, I trust the people around Joe to, at the very least, not maliciously fuck over the country. Can’t say the same about Trump.
With these two choices, I’ll go for not fucking over the country thank you.
There's no way to replace Joe without his consent. Do you have any real ideas how that can be accomplished?
Sorry, where did I say I was here to solve a problem?
Just pointing it out. Cheers.
Hardcore dems have always been delusional cultists with zero self-awareness.
🙄
I was reminded of all the ageist insults that Clinton supporters said about Sanders when he was a spry young 75.
I watched maybe 3 minutes. Turned it on about 35 minutes into it. It was apparent within the first 15 seconds that it was a problem.
No man it was legitimately bad. Biden did horrible. I'm terrified that we're gonna see a significant slip in the polls after that disaster.
This just adds to the growing list of journalists that are discovering people in rural red areas aren't going to vote for an asshole after all, MAGAs excepted.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Headlines about the Biden stumbling over his words and being difficult to hear have not stopped since he and Trump went head-to-head in the first 2024 presidential debate in Atlanta.
One man said he would vote for Biden because "Trump sounded like a crazy liar," according to Matt A. Barreto, professor of Political Science and Chicana/o & Central American Studies at UCLA.
His growing popularity among Latinos, as well as with other minority groups like Black Americans, is often cast as a surprise given his rhetoric about Mexican migrants.
When it came to the topic of immigration in Thursday's debate, Trump said, among other things: "There have been many young women murdered by the same people he allows to come across our border.
Trump and Biden made reference to a recent headline-making case in which two Venezuelan men, who entered the U.S. illegally, were arrested on suspicion of killing a 12-year-old Houston girl whose body was found in a creek after she disappeared while walking to a shop.
Researcher economist Elisa Jácome concluded that "immigrants with lower levels of education today are significantly less likely to commit crimes than their U.S.-born counterparts."
The original article contains 562 words, the summary contains 192 words. Saved 66%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Pure copium.
This message brought to you by the Ministry of Truth.
War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength.
And to add something with more substance than straight eye rolling sarcasm, amazing that the non-english speakers loved his performance.
Lets get one of those translators on the ballot.
Old Joe Biden in the only politician to ever beat Donald Trump in an election, and he's going to do it again, and that's the fact Jack
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
Downvoted for literally an accurate 1984 reference with no other commentary.
It just seemed to fit so perfectly. Bluster is not going to see the Democrats through this election.
Bluster is all they have left, so let's blow the left half of America's mind and have a Bernie/Khanna ticket.
How rad would that be?
Bet it could beat Trump.
After Biden gets kicked for age? I don't think it would fly. We need someone in the goldilocks zone if we're doing this at all.
So... Khanna?
He could work, so could Newsom, Whitmer, Pritzker, and Shapiro. Newsom because of his name recognition from taking a defiant stance against DeSantis and the others because they're governors of key states.
Tell us again how you’re not MAGA? Nearly everything you post is the same repetitive anti-Biden rhetoric. Yet never offering any realistic suggestions to overcome the problem. Nothing but negativity and pointing out flaws.
That essentially the definition of propaganda.
"Everyone to my left must be maga!" - centrists who want to discredit anyone to their left and only their left by lying about them.
Says the guy who magically arrives to defend the MAGA bots any time someone so much as looks at them.
You lied about blocking me, and the only "evidence" you ever have about someone being a "maga bot" is that they don't agree with you.
Did I?
Or did you not read what I said about blocking you? Maybe go back and reread my words. Then come back here and apologize for accusing me of what seems to be your singular purpose here.
You will never be owed an apology by anyone.
Yeah, you said that you would block me temporarily and would unblock me at any time. It was horseshit at the time and we both knew it. You never blocked me. Just like when you lied about ignoring me.
You don't like people pointing out that your baseless accusations have no evidence and no merit. You're just lying about people who disagree with you.
Oh I assure you that I blocked you. But it doesn’t matter because from the standpoint of a known troll, (easily verified by your comment history) you can’t be wrong under any circumstance.
I’ll block you whenever I wish so as to put you in a little corner until I feel I have the patience and/or willingness to deal with someone rewriting my words and shouting them back at me. This is seemingly all you can do. So knowing you can’t argue in good faith- I owe you nothing more or less. I’ve tried reasoning with you. You’re showing that you’re seemingly incapable of it.
You’re a troll. (again, verified by your comment history here) And because of this, I will never engage with you on your terms. So just know that when I get bored of you- I’ll block you again.
And again….
And again…
I stand by my comment history. You do nothing but scream "maga bot" at anyone to your left and only your left. You just want to do so without anyone pointing it out.
Now "block" me again.
K. And you scream gEnoCiDe sUpPorTeR at anyone that even come close to suggesting that Biden isn’t that bad.
And I’ll block you when I think I need to and no sooner.
JimSamtanko.
Reminds me of Clem Fandango.
For the time we have left, when I see your name, I will replay the entire Clem Fandango clip in my head. Because JimSamtanko is just about as useful as Clem Fandango.
You have to know that I have no fucking clue what you’re taking about. But then again, you’re probably used to that as you never seem to either.
Yes I do. Clem Fandango.
I was gonna respond directly, but then I saw the lineage of this post.
It is literally a hall of fame battle of people I blocked on kbin.social (you included you boomer boot licking fascist with the audacity to have the immortal Johnny Ramone as your profile pic) vs people I loved on kbin.social (who sometimes get a little tied up in the weeds, but are thorough and actually put effort into processing new information).
Low key crushing on you all... and getting my block button fired up for half yall.
what matters
...really? Hey, I'll take it!
Considering the fat orange liar is the only alternative, kinda expected some increase to the laid back side
What's more important liberals? The United States of America or the Democratic party?
Which one would you let go of first?
Ranked Choice voting or barbarism. Take your pick. I couldn't give a shit less what you pick to be honest. I didn't have kids. The pain ends with me.
Pick.
wtf are you talking about?
I think he wants us to vote Trump to justify his doomerism? If things go well then he has to think about the future and act on plans, he'd rather screw up the dems than see things continue to improve under Biden. Seems to be the thinking of most the 'I'm above politics because I'm unflinchingly negative about everything'
maybe, I mean it tracks with enlightened centrism people speaking utter nonsense while trying to sound deep and thought provoking... but it still bothers me. what does it mean to let go of the democratic party or the united states...
Yeah sure!!
Dark Brandon has seen your comment and is most disappointed, he believes in us, our our country, the other guy wants to wipe his ass with it, again. Easy choice.