Trump says he won't sign loyalty pledge required for first GOP debate

MicroWave@lemmy.world to politics @lemmy.world – 457 points – Trump says he won't sign loyalty pledge required for first GOP debate
nbcnews.com

The pledge includes a clause saying that the candidate will support the eventual GOP nominee.

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I will never, ever understand how the entire Republican party lined up behind this guy.

Before Trump was elected, they were all vocal about how unfit he was. Too stupid. Too rude.

Then he got the nomination, and they all bent the knee, and became so loyal to him that they protected him from facing the consequences of his insurrection, even when he put their lives in danger.

They hate libs so much they will fall in line behind anyone.

Well, he became the guy who would sign their shitty legislation, appoint right-wing judges and other officials to long-term positions, undermine regulators, spread fascist propaganda amplified by the power of the presidency, etc. The person with the R next to their name opens the doors for the flood of partisan garbage and shuts down those pesky people who want things like "democracy" and "tap water that doesn't poison my family."

The people who were criticizing Trump in the beginning were the ones with brains, that had gotten to the top to exploit power. They're smart enough to know not to fight against the mob that is their support base. But also stupid enough to bring in someone that can rile up the mob better than they could.

Power. Plain and simple.

He did exactly what republicans wanted to do just he kept saying the quiet part loud. Now they are stuck. He is a result of decades of right wing talk radio and tv telling people everyone who disagrees is a satan worshipping pedophile. I fear he wont be the worst though

Same reason the anti-war democrats fell completely silent when Obama got elected, doubled the drone strikes, renewed the Patriot act, and attacked 2 more countries. Party matters a lot more than policy in this country.

I remember being one of the few people protesting at Time Square when John Kerry was beating the war drums for a Syrian invasion. None of the anti-war groups were interested in attacking Obama.

💀

The funny thing is that I think BEFORE Trump, Democrats might have been to some degree susceptible to the same sort of willful blindness to an awful human being who nonetheless supported our policy agenda.

But now, having watched, with disgust, the moral corruption in the Republican party, Democrats are now hypersensitive to it. We have all become more self critical, and more righteous because we've seen what a slippery slope it is that the Republicans fell down.

By contrast, Republicans have so much (mostly figurative) blood on their hands that they can't admit they were wrong about Trump. They can't admit it to us, and they certainly can't admit it to themselves. If they were to acknowledge the glaringly obvious facts about Trump's criminality regarding the attempt to overthrow the election or his theft, mishandling, and cover-up of classified documents, that would mean admitting that Democrats were right about Trump all along.

It's clear that Republicans would rather lobotomize themselves with Fox News than ever, ever, ever, admit to themselves that they've been the bad guys for years.

My theory is that he dug up tons of leverage for each and every one of them. He talks like a mobster, deals like a mobster, decides like a mobster, he certainly keeps his posse in line like a mobster.

This is great news IMO

He'll run on his own Freedom Party ticket and we'll get a 3-party election. Oh no, now the rightwing votes are split. Bummer!

Much more likely at this point that he just wins the nomination. There is still time for that to change, but nothing that indicates that it will.

The GOP is in a terrible state

The US is in a terrible state. Mostly because of the GOP.

Right, there's really no reason for Trump to participate in the debates anyway - he's way far out in front, so it would only hurt him. Hell, this might even be an excuse to skip them without looking like he's afraid to.

Trump doesn't believe he will win the nomination. If he believed he would win, there would be no problem with him signing the pledge. He believes the eventual nominee will be one of 3 or 4 people he despises and cannot support.

He’ll run on his own Freedom Party ticket and we’ll get a 3-party election. Oh no, now the rightwing votes are split. Bummer!

Republicans are too spineless. Realistically trump will threaten to run third party, and they will forgo the primaries and hand him the nomination.

Isn't that a little unconstitutional? I know that hasn't stopped them in the past, but just straight up cancelling a vote of the people is more blatantly fascist than I'd expect from even them.

Then don't let him debate. Why is this hard?

No one will tune in to the debates if Trump isn't there and everyone knows it.

The networks that broadcast the debates want drama because they want views. Trump speaking is one of the biggest draws they can get. I mean he's a bumbling idiot but everyone, left and right, is gonna want to know what he says.

He doesn't WANT to debate, why does nobody see this lol. We will never see him debate again

Republicans don't watch the debates, and literally cheered their candidates for ducking debates with democrats last election.

If they did watch debates, they would realize their candidates had zero platform worth voting for. The ones that do watch them are there for the drama, which this move also satisfies.

Ehh. Trump did terrible in the 2020 debates(although Pence did okay)- but the CNN townhall reflected well on him.

Trump is loyal to no one but himself. Even if he did sign it he would never honor it.

Honestly they should all refuse to sign it because the bastards should not agree to support the traitor Trump if he wins the nomination.

Trump believes he is going to lose the nomination. If he thought he was going to be the nominee, there wouldn't be a problem signing the loyalty pledge. He believes the 3 or 4 other candidates he despises have a better chance at winning the nomination than he does.

My point is none of the other candidates should have agreed to sign it. It confirms they'll support someone who tried to overthrow the government before they'll vote Democrat.

And I'm not sure you're right re: Trump's motives. He wouldn't agree to support the other candidates in 2016 either, and this time around I wouldn't be surprised if he ran independent if he doesn't get the nomination.

Trump's motive is always narcissism. I don't give a rat's ass about his motives. I'm just amused at his belief. He has stated his concern that he could lose the nomination to someone he can't support, and used the likelihood of his loss as his argument that he shouldn't sign the pledge.

He didn't think he was going to win in 2016. He lost in 2020. And he doesn't think he's going to win in 2024.

That's what I don't understand. Why doesn't he sign it knowing full well he can just ignore that pledge once it becomes convenient to do so. Figured he would have learned that by now from his marriages.

I mean Trump is a pathological liar but he's also got an ego the size of Texas. Signing the pledge would be, if only symbolically, ceding his free agency. He'd probably say something like:

What's there to sign? I am the nominee. The rest of these knuckle heads just have a hard time admitting it. And frankly speaking I am the GOP when you think about it. The fact the RNC is too scared to put their money on me from the get go is a sign of weakness and this is why we're having a hard time winning elections.

Wow, so the shit show begins even before we had even one gop debate. Article states you can't participate if you don't sign the pledge to support the eventual nominee.

This is going to be really interesting....

Cue rally where he claims "they unfairly banned me from participating"

Lol yeah right. He'll be there anyway and won't have signed it

Where does this leave somebody like Chris Christie, who wants to debate, but has also been fervently outspoken against Trump. There’s no way he would support Trump should he become the nominee. Perhaps he has to just fade away at that point.

They were all against him in 2016 too. Until they weren't.

That photo of Ted Cruz phonebanking for Trump after Trump straight up insulted Cruz's wife? That one photo was all I needed to know about the direction things were headed in for the Republicans.

I was thinking of Lindsay saying if they nominated Trump it would destroy the party and then turning into a hardcore trump sycophant.

But Cruz may be a better example.

IMO Graham is a better example because he still had a reputation of principles at the time, being friend with McCain and in general being outspoken.

Cruz never had any of that. Everybody hates Ted Cruz, even his close colleagues and family.

I think they are both good examples. Cruz is the example I specifically think of, but that doesn't make good bad!

Leaves him taking a long walk off a short bridge

Thats the goal, be interesting.

Of course not, he has no intention of debating. He'll say the rules are unfair and people are being mean to him.

Chris Christie would destroy him in debates. And Chris really wants to make Trump look bad in front of everyone. AND Trump is scared of Chris.

Plus Trump knows he will only look bad if he goes to the debates. He likes to lie without people correcting him in real time.

Nobody “destroys” anyone in these things. They’re not debates, they are simultaneous stump speeches. They’re only if marginally more value that a YT video of “Sam Seder BLASTS Steven Crowder and DESTROYS his argument.” Debates aren’t debates anymore and we’re all the worse off for it.

And they will continue not being debates as long as the RNC and DNC continue running them.

He wouldn't really though. Here's how it would play out:

Chris Christie: (list of long horrible things Trump did)

Trump: "Why did you work for me then? Why didn't you say anything? Why did you help with the Biden debates? If you felt that way and didn't say anything, that's a lack of courage and character."

/jk We all know Trump would be like "squeal again you fat pig!"

Yeah we'll never see him debate again, you could tell this years ago lol, thanks for pointing this out

A substantial fraction of their base is his cult now, and the Republicans know that they cannot win without his support. Ultimately they will bow to his will because the parts of the party which have not been utterly brainwashed realize that it is currently their only path to victory, no matter how distasteful that is.

I think to some degree, everyone is brainwashed. But holy shit, imagine being brainwashed by THIS GUY.

Doubtful, many repubs are probably sealed witnesses which would explain the speed with which everything is moving. That way they can in secret undermine trump and save face do they can give the nomination to someone who isn't desantis or trump.

Doubtful, many repubs are probably sealed witnesses which would explain the speed with which everything is moving.

Are you referring to the trials? The best case scenario for Trump opponents is to delay them.

They know that if he is actually convicted, that will seal his nomination with the party's base, who have a persecution complex and will have no problem at all voting for a felon (while driving to the polls with a "thin blue line" decal on the car, ignoring the irony).

Nope best case for his opponents is a split repub ticket with a convicted trump. If they win good great, they can try to pardon Trump and move on. If they lose they have an excuse and possible route to legal remedy and reelection.

Split the vote. Please.

Ooh maybe he can form a third party and field a bunch of candidates for the senate!

I fear all that will do is lead to Biden falling short of 270 and the election being thrown to congress.

Why would Trump splitting the GOP vote have an effect on Biden?

Right? There's still only X amount of potential GOP voters regardless of the candidate(s) and it's not a number that's experiencing rapid growth.

“I wouldn’t sign the pledge,” Trump told host Eric Bolling. “They want you to sign a pledge, but I can name three or four people that I wouldn’t support for president. So right there there’s a problem."

Is this all that's in the pledge? To support the nominee? I mean, if I were Christie or any other candidate, I wouldn't sign a pledge to potentially support Trump.

Pretty much. GOP is trying to prevent another Jan 6th from happening. It got really uncool to be a Republican on that day. They can't keep losing the regular right wing voter base at the cost of the MAGA alt-right nut jobs.

As expected, it failed cuz Trump.

Looking at it objectively, he actually shouldn't be participating in the debates anyway. He has an insurmountable lead that's growing by the day, and his next challenger is struggling to hold on to double digits. He gains absolutely nothing by participating in the debates, and puts himself at risk by participating in a debate where literally every other candidate would be dogpiling on him hoping to trip him up.

Now granted, he wouldn't sign that loyalty pledge and may not even participate in the debates for his own self-serving reasons, but those reasons and legitimate political strategy just happen to align right now. Even if he didn't have his own self-serving reasons, most political advisors would be advising him to do the same thing anyway.

Furthermore- how can you go from debating and vilifying these people then pledging to vote for them?

Furthermore- how can you go from debating and vilifying these people then pledging to vote for them?

Eh, that's been a part of the election cycle for as long as I can remember. Virtually every failed candidate ends up falling in line behind whoever the nominee is. The whole act politicians pull off during the primaries is just that -- an act. It's like professional wrestling -- they only hate each other when the story calls for it.

Chris Christie appears to be running on a platform of wanting to debate Trump. There's no doubt that he would annihilate Trump in a debate given the chance.

🤣 This assumes either one of them would debate in good faith...

You can't win debates against someone who lies and flips as easily as he breathes.

Even if Chris made a good point, Trump would just call him a fat low energy dickhead and the MAGAairheads would cheer and see it as a win.

Please run as a separate candidate and dilute the R vote. Fuckin please give the Dems the easiest possible win.

How many times you think this guy will run for president? If he loses again, will he just keep running until he is dead?

I don't know how many more 4 year cycles are realistic to expect trump to have left among the living so it won't be too very many more regardless.

I'm calling it now. This is his last one. He's already downing uppers and shitting his adult diapers multiple times a day. He's running on McDonald's and fumes at this point.

I want it to be enough times failing that Republicans kick him out so he starts his own party and splits the vote. Probably taking a chunk of the crazies in congress with him.

One can only dream though.

Your two party system is shit and everyone should be trying their hardest to force something else like STV.

Approval Voting (using a multi winner variant) and five member districts. No single winner system will break the two party system. Party proportional is better but America ain't ready for that.

I prefer ranked choice to approval voting- it means compromise voting isn't necessary. It also means that people are less likely to select someone just because of slight approval but they think they have a higher chance,

Yeah but RCV still has spoilers, like what with happened in the Alaska special election (among others). The big reason I like Approval best is that even the dumbest voter needs to understand how the voting system works, from beginning to end. If you think the lies about voter fraud and rigged elections are bad now, just imagine how many more people would believe them if they didn't fully understand how the voting system works.

In practice RCV and Approval agree nearly all the way down the results and when they don't, Approval does a better job of showing the true support for second and third place.

Hey hey hey Strangle Thorn Vale is fucking miserable dude, leveling there is basically asking to get ganked by some max level player farming world buffs. Easily as bad as the two part system

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Former President Donald Trump on Wednesday said that he would not sign a loyalty pledge required by the Republican National Committee for participation in the first GOP debate this month.

During the interview, Trump also said he would announce next week whether he will participate in the Aug. 23 debate in Milwaukee, though a refusal to sign the loyalty pledge would make him ineligible under the RNC's criteria.

The loyalty pledge also asks candidates to agree not to participate in any non-RNC sanctioned debate for the remainder of the election cycle.

Trump, Christie and Hutchinson are among at least eight candidates who appear to have met the donor and polling thresholds required to participate in the debates.

Former Vice President Mike Pence was the latest candidate to announce he had qualified for the debate, which will be hosted by Fox News.

NBC News reported in June that Trump was exploring potential counterprogramming during the first debate, according to people familiar with his deliberations.

I'm a bot and I'm open source!

I mean, I can't say I disagree with him at all in this case. Loyalty pledges are fucked.

Yeah. Imagine if the person who gets picked was a bigoted piece of shit (like.... you know). Why on earth would someone want to be forced to support that just so that they can run for their primary in attempt to be slightly less shitty? It seems like this is just something that dooms the republican party to continue being horrible.

Especially since it is currently extremely likely Trump will be the GOP candidate, so this basically means most other possible candidates have to support Trump, which is obviously bad.

Nice bit of schadenfreude, since there's no primary without Trump, and Trump is almost certain to lose in another general. In the immortal words of Lindsay Graham from 2016, "If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed. And we will deserve it."

He is absolutely not certain to lose. If he runs on the GOP ticket, we have every reason to believe that it will be close, and whether it is or not, the GOP will lie, cheat, and resort to violence in order to win, disrupt the process, or, barring either, overthrow the government. The Biden slam dunk narrative is a GOP talking point designed to get needed Blue voters to stay home. The Republic is absolutely at stake, and that means everyone needs to take it seriously.

I disagree. The 2022 midterm was supposed to be their "red wave", and it failed miserably. The most likely candidate to lose were MAGA republicans in that election, indicating that MAGA politics is no longer a winning platform. There's also signs of cohesion in the democratic party to exploit the fracturing of the GOP, best seen in this legislative session from MN and MI. I'm not saying that it will be a slam dunk win, I'm saying that the odds of Trump winning are inarguably stacked against him. One failed election, other politicians on the same platform failing, multiple federal criminal prosecutions, a fractured GOP, McConnell and McCarthy pushing the party towards center, and a lot more factors point to Trump losing the election. Either way, this pledge will bite the GOP in the ass.

Well also remember that Republican state legislatures continued to gerrymander the shit out of their districts in 2020. The electoral map is different now than the last election.

I spy that midwest.social account, so I'm sure you heard about the Wisconsin supreme court election and how Protasiewicz won. That combined with the lawsuit for partisan gerrymandering is likely to lead to redistricting that will make the state representative again. The deep south states that are redistricting are trying to cement their power to prevent another Wisconsin from happening rather than trying to tip the scale in their favor

Here in Kansas they submitted a district map from the twilight zone that survived litigation. It's ridiculous.

Idk about you, but I'm pretty tired of the republic being at stake every four years. The peaceful transition of power has been the cornerstone of our democracy for 247 years. It is amazing that all it took to destroy it was one fat trust-fund baby.

Trump will only support a candidate who will pardon him, and maybe give him "an awesome job", like a diplomatic mission with diplomatic immunity. Saudi Arabia or some other rich kleptocracy, though, not just any s***hole country. Promising to support just any schmo, beforehand? There is no upside for Trump on that one.

Hear me out on this one...

Trump signs the pledge. Since the RNC is a private body they can technically choose anyone they want and choose someone not Trump. Trump sues them bringing the question of the RNC/DNC into play. Trump further runs independent causing the RNC to sue him to keep him off the ballots (again also putting the RNC/DNC into question). While things work their way in the courts, Republicans have a split ticket problem.

Well, If he does not play according to the rules, just cut him out of the game. If you have the balls for it.