Looking for a 4k tv without smart functions

Johanno@feddit.de to Asklemmy@lemmy.ml – 267 points –

Hey do anybody know where you get a tv that supports 4k and does not have that locked up smarttv shit?

If there are none, does anybody know a tv that boots fast(less than 30 seconds) and displays an hdmi input by default without the need to choose the input from a menu.

Thanks in advance.

And sorry if I am in the wrong place.

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Supposedly, the Spectre 55 inch is 4k and dumb as a rock: https://www.sceptre.com/TV/4K-UHD-TV/U550CV-UMR-55-4K-UHD-TV-product959category1category73.html

How about projectors? They're stupid as shit.

The newer ones usually have some smart stuff built in

Wtf! I've had my 1080p 55 inch dumb as a rock tv for over 7 year, i liberated it from my brother so its older, and was gonna start looking for when finally starts to go. I guess ima need to find someone that knows how to fix it.

I have an older model of this Spectre. Can confirm it looks fantastic for the price and no smart features .

I paid $200 for mine. Do not buy the Walmart version. Also this seems overpriced for this unit

Do not buy the Walmart version.

I'm pretty sure Sceptre is specifically Walmart's TV brand, much like Insignia is Best Buy's brand.

No, Sceptre is an independent company. ONN is Walmarts in-house electronics brand.

That's probably what I was confusing them for, actually. I forgot that Onn isn't just Android TV boxes.

I bought mine from Amazon, but that was probably 5 years ago. Sceptre has fallen big time since the early 2000's, but that would be a new low for them.

I don't think so. I bought one from Menards years ago.

Also seeing ScAmazon and Worst Buy selling them online.

Ahh, okay, that makes sense then. I've only ever seen them at Walmart where I am.

I’ve got a slightly older Sceptre 43 inch 4K, and tbh I’ve been trying to find a replacement for a while. The form factor of the TV itself is great, but the picture is pretty crappy. There’s a ton of light bleed around the edges, the HDR functionality is insanely frustrating and looks terrible, and the upscaling is crap. I got it on a ridiculous sale towards the beginning of the pandemic when local shops were clearing their inventories, so I can’t really complain. But I would not buy it again.

I also have two of their PC monitors, and they have the same problems as the TV. No more Sceptre for me in the future.

Does it bother anyone else to pay for all that "smartness" and then figure out how NOT to use it?

How can consumers fight back against this bullshit?

You aren’t paying for the smartness. You are actually getting a subsidized TV that should cost a whole lot more but is being sold for cheap since it is also a data collection device.

Non smart TVs are more expensive than their smart counterparts.

The only answer is to never give your smart tv access to your network and to use an external device for streaming.

This is exactly what I do, my TV never connects to my network.

You’re right. What you really need is a tv that reacts less bad to being online. It’s a shame Logitech killed the Harmony because dumbing down your tv successfully generally requires a universal remote.

As a long time Harmony user, expert, and former employee .... The Sofabaton remotes are the closest substitute I've found. Easy to configure and use. Just no "activities" like a Harmony. But at least you can set it to control the volume on X device when you have it in the mode to control Y device.

Activities are the killer app of Harmony. How do you set it to switch inputs on the various devices?

It has a physical scroll wheel to switch between devices. The on each device mode you can customize the buttons.

I use configure one of the buttons to be a hot key to set the TVs input for the device I have selected.

Again, it's not as automated as an activity, but it eliminates switching around to different devices and finding inputs.

In our case we have some devices connected to a receiver (Apple TV) and others to TV (game systems). We use ARC for audio for those devices. I suppose it’s easier if everything is connected to TV for that purpose.

Not really. All the extra circuitry costs money. Building and maintaining the software costs money. And that's way more than you're expected to "earn".

As much as it fuels your conspiracy boners, it's not like Samsung is raking in billions by showing you ads.

As much as it fuels your conspiracy boners

If you want to discuss this topic further, I’d be happy to. But not if you’re going to causally throw around insults.

You don’t know anything about me or my work experience.

You don’t know anything about me or my work experience.

Throwing around insults is not helpful, but neither is "trust me bro".

Where was the trust me bro part in his response?
OP literally said to not assume what he did or didnt???

I just did some searching around and found out that smart tv with the same specs as dum tv is cheeper.

That's the neat thing: I don't need to.

If you're just parroting the same narrative without any basis like anybody else and also use the same narratives, I can safely assume that unless proven otherwise, you don't know what you're talking about.

Thanks for confirming my original response to you.

Do you think that Facebook doesn’t cost money to build or run?

A crappy years-old ARM-powered smartphone SOC stuck inside a TV costs next to nothing.

It bothers me a LOT!

Especially when I don't even use the smart shit, basically use it as a glorified monitor and the thing pops up a message "Our terms and conditions have changed". I cannot use my fucking TV till I accept the new terms and if I refuse, the TV just turns off.

It's such bullshit! I own the TV, how can you change the terms and conditions after the fact? Can I change the terms and conditions? I know I paid $1000 for this TV, but I changed my mind, can you please give me back 250$. I altered the deal, pray I don't alter it any further.

Same with my goddamned piece of shit phone. Here is a new software version, it will remove 3 features you love and use every day, drains your battery twice as fast and makes the whole thing slow. You can maybe hack shit till it doesn't update automatically and only occasionally bugs you about it. But then you don't get any security updates or compatibility fixes, so that's not really a good option either. So you buy a new device every 2 years, even though it was perfectly fine.

I know the EU is working on it, but I can't wait for the day manufacturers are forced to provide at least 5-7 years of security/compatibility updates for devices, without also bundling feature updates. And be legally bound to the terms and conditions at the moment of sale, no changing the deal after it's done.

The only solace I can offer is that I think most TOS have been deemed unenforceable since literarily no-one reads that shit.

Somone correct me if I'm wrong please.

Weird, the new ToC just says "I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it further."

Don't give it internet access and it can't get new terms and services.

We altered the deal, pray we don't alter it further.

It bothers me it's so hard to find one that doesn't include it, but it doesn't feel like it's bloating the price to me, if that's what you mean. Besides the insistence on the smart shit, TV's have constantly been getting better, bigger, and yet still cheaper.

It's unfortunate, but if anything the smart features are part of why they're staying so cheap. The TV costs the same to make no matter what, but when every company under the sun is paying a fee to have their app baked into the tv, you don't have to charge the end-user as much to make the same profit. Not to mention the treasure trove of data you can collect(and sell) from the ones who connect it to the internet.

This happens everywhere now.

We had the garage doors replaced, and replaced the openers since they were also a couple decades old and a small part of the total cost. Every damned opener that wasnt bare-bones had smart features. Camera, motion detection, wifi... of course, none of it to any sort of standard, and requiring a special app and account with the vendor. Smart devices are fine - I want smart, to some standard like zwave - but I'll be god damned if I'm going to make an account with Genie so they can track and sell my garage door use.

Same thing with the dishwasher. The house being as old as it is, all the devices are hitting planned obsolecense at the same time. All the new dishwashers that have any decent features are smart. Again, with some shitty bespoke app, and requiring an account. This time, I got the damned thing and just haven't installed the app or configured the wifi on it. Maybe it's talking to one of the neighbor's unsecured wifi networks; I guess I can live with that.

We got lucky on the refrigerator (this time, something inside broke and leaked water into the underfloor for a week before we caught it). We got a model that had everything we wanted and didn't have wifi.

I read an article a few months ago about a conference where all these companies are bitching that people are buying these things and not connecting them; with any luck, they've been losing money on them and will stop adding smart features to everything. But I'm not holding my breath.

I already have >500 accounts spread across various shops, game dev accounts (because every publisher needs its own launcher), services, etc.
Too much data floating around the world because just another joe needed to seel some more data >_>

Yeah there’s this idea that we all want high tech, high surveillance everything. Fuck that, I want stuff that works right without accounts, or can work on a home hub or something like that. I hate feeling expected to load my phone with an app for everything I interact with

It's mostly because it's all heavily integrated. The chipset that drives the smart platform also drives everything else, including the inputs and stuff.

Lots of the "features" are profit motivated. Lots of companies love to be paid for bundling software on the device.

Got a Sony Bravia OLED and it's set up as a dumb TV, turns on instantly + I never see the Smart TV UI, not even a logo.

What I did was decline everything at setup, hook up to the Internet via Ethernet once to update, unplug Ethernet and set it to turn on to last input.

That's just a smart tv acting dumb. Or a smart TV that was taught wrong, as a joke.

"I must apologize for Wimp Lo. He is an idiot. We have purposely trained him wrong, as a joke."

"Hah ! [Tittering ] If you've got an ass, I'll kick it."

-Kung Pow

Yep, the new Bravias with Android TV or whatever give you a choice as a part of the first time setup that essentially disables all the smart features. I had the same experience.

Look into commercial displays.

This is the answer every time this question comes up. You pay more because it doesn't generate revenue by spying on you, but it doesn't have all the bullshit cause it's meant to be on during all biz hours showing store promos and the like.

I'm rocking a 4k ViewSonic display. Nothing smart about it.

Almost every TV doesn't have smart functions if you don't connect them to your network.

They usually still have their dumb OS bloated with pre-installed apps.

They don't matter though.

I have a cheap Vizio TV and I can't remember the last time I saw the smart functions. The only time I even need the original remote is for volume but I've already got it set where I like it.

If you connect your device to a compatible hdmi port and turn on the device first, it should turn on your tv to that input straight away. Boot times should be nearly instant unless you do a full restart of the smart tv.

I hate "smart" TVs too, unfortunately I have one but I just never connected it to the internet. I only use the HDMI input to connect it to my HTPC running Linux and Kodi, it's an awesome setup.

I got a Vizio 4K and refused to give it my wifi access. it boots in maybe 5 seconds and the only issue is the time displayed on screen is way off. otherwise fully functional with no smartness. and it restarts using the same input as when it was last used.

I did the same thing with Vizio and it eventually would randomly turn off, or sound wouldn't work or something, you'd call support and they'd tell you that you have to update it. It doesn't make any sense, but I did it and it would work find for awhile again. Thr tinfoil hat in me says they do that to get whatever info they have stored on you.

Track the DNS requests and if anything calls for telemetry.brand.com block it.
If they arent as evil as youtube and use separate subdomains for thr respective service you should be able to allow the update domain but block all others.

My 6 yr old Visio is starting that general fuckery too. I have to unplug for a minute to get it going.

A few months ago, I connected my Vizio to my network to do firmware updates to see if it could be any better since it was 3 years old and I was sure there were improvements. Then and only then did I start seeing random crashes and the TV speakers turning on and up to max volume (I have a sound bar + subwoofer). The TV shut off without warning in the middle of a Rocket League tournament and wouldn't turn back on until I unplugged it and plugged it back in. That was the last straw. Disabled the Wi-Fi connection and it's been running fine ever since.

interesting. i didnt have those issues. i havent updated.

Almost every smart TV I have played with you can set them up to just go to an HDMI input and turn off any "home" menus screens. You also can usually skip any Network setup.

I have played with LG, Vizio, Samsung and Sony TVs all have had options to do this. (But this has been over the last 1-7 years).

My vizio also starts on the last input. So it only goes to the smart TV stuff when I want it too. It's older (E50x or something like that) but it's been getting updates so I'm assuming it's the same on newer ones still.

My newer Vizio will not default to hdmi. It always brings up the menu, where you have to scroll through a bunch of ads to get to your apps and input options. The apps randomly change order. Sometimes you even get a pop-up ad when you first turn it on. I wish I had never bought the damned TV.

Isn't that basically just a monitor?

While I get what you're saying, there are some differences between TVs and monitors that may be relevant to OP.

TVs have tuners built into them, if they need to receive overt the air or cable signals.

TVs have remote controls where monitors typically don't.

Large TVs are hella cheap compared to monitors of the same size.

Can you actually get TV-sized monitors?

All day. Above 24" they all get pretty gaming focused, and i will say the fast response time and framerates are incredible if you game. These tv sized ones are a bit rediculous though

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-odyssey-ark-55-led-curved-4k-uhd-gaming-monitor-black/6510927.p?skuId=6510927&extStoreId=279&ref=212&loc=1&gclsrc=aw.ds&gclid=Cj0KCQjwy4KqBhD0ARIsAEbCt6jwOHP4Y9HU4DnpPX3HVYQM-4hlfbzEI_xenlD6fFe3q376CG6FkPIaAp7uEALw_wcB

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Is there actually any practical use for having a tuner built in still? I haven't plugged a coax into one of those in like 15 years, it's always to a set-top box first and then hdmi from that to the tv, and the only reason we have cable at all is because of my dad.

Antennae’s still work great. Picture is better with no or little compression compared to cable. Great for live sports.

Digital OTA is useful if you don't want to pay for cable but you want to watch local sports or the news something. If you are in a large metro area, you can get a great picture and a surprising variety of channels.

The set-top box can do OTA too.

If you don't have a set top box, i.e. no cable, no sattelite, then you would plug OTA directly into the TV and use the tuner there. I haven't used a set-top box in like 15 years. It's always been an HTPC, or an Intel Nuc or something like that.

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With an IR remote and built in speakers.

So basically no.

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I have found some. The key is to look for either outdoor televisions or ones designed for commercial use, such as those used for restaurant menus at the counter.

Outdoor televisions usually aren't very good besides being bright and weather resistant.

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The latest tvs the boot pretty fast, when you turn them on for the first time just don't agree to the policies and it'll be a dumb tv.

The other option is a computer monitor.

My Sony TV allows for a default input on boot. Wish it allowed a default App on boot...

I need to get non-smart TVs for work and usually end up buying Sceptre TVs. They do everything you're asking, but I don't live with them day-to-day so I'm not sure what they're like in that regard.

I'm going to assume because you said your shopping for a 4k telly and havent set a set amount that you got the money to afford something decent in that case look at getting a used commercial or large format display I found this for £380 which may interst you or prehaps just buying a smart telly and not connecting it to the Internet

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334520355630?

I got an LG C3, never plugged in the ethernet cable and changed the song so it starts on that last active input.
I did have to enter my postal code though, which is H0H 0H0.

Also recently bought a C3 and can't say enough good things about it. I connected mine to wifi so I could use/control it within HomeAssistant but you can always just not connect it like you said to have a TV without the smart features.

I was worried about burn in, but after hundreds of hours of Zelda, Fae Farm, which do have static UI elements, I still haven't noticed anything.
I haven't connected it so far.

I use homeassistant a lot, but haven't connected the TV yet.
From looking at the integration, at least its not cloud bs, so I could probably block everything to and from the TV except TCP 3000-3001 with homeassistant and it could still talk locally with hass.
I've already blocked LG's ads domains, just in case I ever decide to plug it in, but denying everything except homeassistant would be nice.

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If there are none, does anybody know a tv that boots fast(less than 30 seconds) and displays an hdmi input by default without the need to choose the input from a menu.

I have a Phillips 4k "smart tv" I keep in "dumb" mode at all times. https://www.usa.philips.com/c-p/65PFL5766_F7/5700-series-4k-ultrahd-led-android-tv-with-google-assistant

Just never ever connect it to the internet, and keep it on HDMI 1.

The TV is even smart enough to detect when there is a live signal on HDMI 1 and it turns itself on automatically. This might be a feature of my stereo having an ARC out HDMI line.

I have all my game consoles, google chromecast, etc etc connected to my stereo, then stereo out connected to the TV's HDMI 1. When I turn anything on it "just works". No menus, no inputs, it just flips on and displays HDMI 1 and keeps its mouth shut lol

Look for a commercial grade television set. For example, on Best Buy, search for 'Television' click the 'Non Smart' option and you will get 38 choices to peruse. BTW, commercial grade is more durable with a longer warranty. Good luck!

I was in a similar position earlier this year. Problem was most non smart TVs were business grade and very expensive. Ended up with a Samsung Smart TV but didn't hook it up to the Internet. Fits my needs and remote is only ever used for changing HDMI devices. It boots up in about 10 seconds.

LG C1 is "smart", but satisfies your other criteria. It has been replaced with newer models, but I imagine the user experience must be similar.

I haven't even seen it's smart functions the whole time I've had it. I press a button on the Apple TV remote and a few seconds later the TV is displaying the Apple TV menu (connected via HDMI through a receiver). No menus to navigate and no ads that I've ever seen, though the first thing I did when I got it was disable all the "suggestions".

Mostly this. You pay the lack of features in either image quality or price, so it's probably not worth it. I have Samsung and LG OLEDs, and they mostly do the thing just fine, particularly if you have a single HDMI plugged in. I'll say I wouldn't use those OLEDs as monitors, if that's the idea, because there are other issues with doing that, but for a console or a single input device they're perfectly fine.

I never connected my LG tv to wifi, works like a regular tv should

What you want is a "public display".

You can easily turn it into a "pubic display" once it's set up.

Yes. They make them for commercial use, like the signs at fast food.

Many of those types while having great brightness and reduced image burn in actually have terrible quality images. Eg no hdr, some may only be 30hz, some may have the contrast ratio which is so low you'll just be sad to watch a movie on it looking at a black grey mush.

Though like all things, there's a gradient. Some of the conference room monitor panels can be better but often >3x more expensive than the consumer model due to much better warranty (eg same day parts).

So I don't have any advice here, just a bit of warning with experience with being around zoom, teams, and display walls from an IT solutions perspective,though generally I use AV partners for model selection and installation on any meaningfully sized conference/boardroom room or special application eg stages.

I just got a Hisense that’s google tv but in setup I had the option to configure it as just cable and inputs.

I got the U7 series. I don’t know if this feature is consistent across all google tvs or all Hisense tvs or what, but I’ve given you somewhere to start at least.

Ya I haven't tried it but during initial setup I thought that was an interesting option. I also have a U7 series.

I've got a 55" from Westinghouse that's probably a decade old by now. It technically has some half-baked smart functions, but they're more like fixed apps than anything where you can install/update/change. It never gets connected though, just used as a monitor for whatever is attached. Cheap off-bramd type boxes are not bad if you're just looking for an output. Lots of times they don't have the time and resources to put into making some big infrastructure and app catalog, so they just focus on making the screen and inputs work.

My brand new Samsung boots to pc hdmi in like 5 seconds be default, and is a very smart tv.

Smart TVs arent bad because they're smart. They're bad because people buy cheap ones on black Friday.

SmartTvs aren't bad. That is correct. However if I don't get an android TV I am stuck with the apps the manufacturer chooses. Which does not include xstream, nexttube or a Firefox. So that is a big minus for me. Then there are other issues that begin at "not defaulting to an hdmi input" and end at "ads that are shown in the menu".

So I rather don't have any of that.

Think you missed the point of the thread.