There you go. It was all OK until it impacted $$. Glad they finally did something, but wish it would have been based on an actual ethical concern.
this is one of the few levers of power we have. remember that every nickel they have comes from us working and us buying.
Free market morality.
To be fair, I think one could argue with a straight face that if we're still buying the products, then we really don't care that much. Why should a company be motivated by morality if we as a society collectively aren't?
We should hold ourselves to the same standards or we're just hypocrites.
If the only fridges on the market contain CFCs then people are going to buy them because they need fridges. If the only CFC-free fridges are more expensive than CFC ones then only affluent people, at most, are going to buy them.
It's called a market failure: There are costs associated with a product that are not taken into account because the regulatory regime doesn't make sure they are. In the case of CFCs we went even further than making fridge producers pay up for the externalities they cause (which would've been an astronomical sum) and right-out banned that stuff. The consumer, after all, is still saving money with CFC fridges (their food doesn't spoil as easily), they're not paying for the ozone hole, either.
See the free market is a theoretical model, it indeed promises prefect results given that all actors are perfectly rational and act on perfect information, the maths makes sense. Perfect rationality and information don't exist in the real world, though (and in fact ads and company secrets exist to degrade the information available to everyone) so we need regulations to fix market failures so that the real-world market comes closer to approximating the free market. Misunderstanding of this point brought to you by peddlers of institutionalised market failure equivocating "free market" and "unregulated market".
The EU tends to have a good grasp on it, the US, boy oh boy.
In principle I'm inclined to agree, however isn't this glossing over the degree to which markets are consolidated?
You try to opt out of products/services and choose more ethical alternatives, but it turns out the most readily available alternatives are in some way connected to the same unethical parent company. Ultimately the individualistic approach to addressing these matters is untenable and requires collective action in some form (ideally it would be leveraging a government that reflects the interests of the people).
And those companies have spent a ton of time and effort discouraging and preventing people from collectivizing via union busting. There's a huge power asymmetry at play here, an individual should not be held to the same standard of accountability as the people who literally control the economy through non-democratic or straight up unelected positions of leadership (board of investors or private CEOs respectively). They can, at any moment, choose to reduce their profit margin for the betterment of the planet - but they don't, because as a small group of owners, they exist to profit so they would never agree to do so in a meaningful way*. And because they're collectivised and we're not (just look at the swathe of antitrust cases where businesses that are supposed to compete, have instead chosen to act like a cartel), they hold almost all the power. Let's focus our attention away from blaming the average person, and onto the real root cause so that we can actually collectivise against that root cause rather than fight amongst each other.
*: without the state straight up socialising their risk, for example the green tech grants and loans we have been and are giving out, all over the world. Something Elon Musk is very familiar with, given that Tesla might not have existed today without the generous $465 million government loan they got in 2009.
"Opting out" doesn't mean you "opt in" to whatever forced you to "opt out" to begin with.
If I give you a choice between being punched in the face or getting kicked in the crotch, it's not moral acquiescence to either regardless which you choose.
Your argument rests on a fallacy- "vote with your wallet". This presumes that we don't vote with our voice anymore, so it supersedes a democratic system of governance.
Consider: "if you oppose slavery, just don't buy slaves, and we'll let the market sort out who's right and wrong"
Your argument rests on a fallacy- “vote with your wallet”. This presumes that we don’t vote with our voice anymore, so it supersedes a democratic system of governance.
Meaning this genuinely, not in a snarky way: did you read to the end of my comment? My phrasing may have been poor or a tad wordy, but I recognize what you're describing and advise collective, political action instead of voting with one's wallet.
The parenthetical at the end wasn't to suggest otherwise, only that doing so via one's existing/current government may not be a readily available option, demanding one change their government so as to make it work to those ends. I should have been clearer on that point.
No, I don't think you could, because you don't really have a choice.
I find this naive cynicism exasperating.
"Let's improve society somewhat."
"Yet, you partake in society! Curious! / sent from my iPhone"
Sent from graphene but sure
Supply side ethics
I think what you're saying is either inaccurate or excessively vague. Many ultra rich people got money by inheriting it, through the stock market, and to a much lesser degree, through government spending programs.
The way you framed the issue is a classic one, and it's essentially blaming us, the consumers, for creating the problem that we are facing. First of all, that would simply be inaccurate because there are many causes, and second of all, it doesn't really matter who you blame. The question is how we can fix the broken situation.
Not really. They said consumption AND labor. Stocks are capital, and their profits come from underpaying workers for the value they produce through labor. Inherited wealth is also acquired through and stored in capital.
In addition, the government is an essential part of capitalism, as it protects owned property more economically than the private armies of feudalism. Government spending programs that give the rich money are paid for by political donations, but the actual profitability is hard to quantify.
I love how you protest blaming consumers and then in the next sentence say "it doesn't matter who you blame". The answer to "how we can fix the broken situation" starts with identifying the problem (AKA laying blame).
In reality, there is no shortage of people to blame. You can blame the corporations, the stock market, politicians, nepotism, capitalism AND consumers, and none of that would be wrong. The only wrong thing to do is to remove blame from any of them.
blame, responsibility, and the ability to do something are three interrelated but distinct concepts. the ability to force bad actors to change by refusing to reward them for bad actions does not put the blame on us for failure to do so. If you forget to lock your front door and someone robs you, there was something you could have done to prevent the robbery but only the thief carries the blame.
Tesla batteries and modular car battery charging systems incoming, they're not going to give up their market foothold so easily now that they've got their foot in the door.
These people have money for blood, what makes you think their ethics are any different? I don't care what sets the face eating leopards off so long as they get to eating faces.
I don't expect people making bank to have many ethical concerns, tbh.
"It's just one small thing. Besides, there are many other things to complain about!" said every investor tied to everything people complain about, probably.
Expecting investors to behave ethically instead of in their financial interest? I see you're feeling bold today
Ethical concerns are not in line with corporate ethics.
This is capitalism. There is no place for “actual ethical concern.”
I'm waiting for Apple and Google to pull the X client from their app stores.
Then the fun really begins.
Not going to happen as all these companies work together. these companies are notorious to trick regulars into thinking they are helping the society.
SocialMediaPlatform™ does something horrible
Make a huge deal about pulling ads from SocialMediaPlatform™ to get consumers on your side
Quietly return ads to SocialMediaPlatform™ after PR team determines everyone has forgotten
SocialMediaPlatform™ does something even worse
GOTO 2
Lol so true. Its not just Twitter though, most of the companies do the same thing. However its on us to not make noise and boycott the shit outta these companies.
Why don't people just stop caring about whatever the fuck is going on at Twitter/X? I consider it in the same realm as truthsocial or OANN comment sections. Sure, musky had enough money to buy a platform, but that platform is elevated by it's users. If people just stopped doing that, it would be irrelevant. Literally nothing important has happened on twitter, ever. We don't need it. Just discard it and let it wither in the dark.
Why don't people just stop caring about whatever the fuck is going on at Twitter/X?
Because whatever the fuck is going on at Twitter impacts the world. Like it or not, Twitter still contains and controls an enormous amount of public discourse.
To add to this, every politician, journalist, and influencer is on Twitter, so even if a majority of people don't use it or post on it, the platform is a hub for ideas and real-time news.
Panem et circem.
Meet the circem.
They keep the panem.
something would have to be seriously wrong for that to happen
In the EU, App stores already have a legal responsibility to remove apps that promote hate speech. While both Google and Apple are sitting on the sidelines while the EU is going through the legal motions to tear Musk a new one, I wouldn't be surprised if they kick X out just before someone forces them too, just to pretend they actually care.
Just in time for the EU to also force third party app stores through, and X attempting to make one sounds plausible even if they get nowhere with it.
They already have no problem pulling other apps for shit that Xitter is known to pull. Even when said other apps have a similar lack of control (or even less) over said content.
All billionaires are cunts. All Nazis are cunts. Not all billionaires are Nazis.
Yeah soros is a Holocaust survivor
That’s some fucked up shit to go through.
T Swizzle seems relatively cool, but every rule has its exceptions
I think Mark Cuban is okay. He seems like your typical rich guy, but not your typical billionaire.
Musk can a smoke fat dick. I am so sick of hearing about that cunt.
Can we just fully cancel his ass so we don't have to hear about him any more. I yearn for the day I no longer hear about Musk or Trump on a daily basis.
We let people get so fucking rich that everything they do is newsworthy because it actually impacts a ton of people.
The real problem is that we don't actually need rich people in the first place.
This story highlights why news about this is still important. The investors wouldn't be doing this if they thought a lot of people wouldn't hear about it and be disgusted.
I couldn't care less about whatever else he does, but when he does something awful, spread it as much as you can. We can see very clearly that not all news is good news for him. And one thing I do want to see is him discovering the consequences of his action, for once in his life.
And he'll never go away, ever. As long as he has munny he will be a thorn in everyones side, he cannot simply be voted out like a politician sadly
Or—and please, sit down before you read any further—the media could…stop reporting every single thing he says. [thunder crashes. children scream.]
Nah he'll just be forced to sell some shares before a big profit or they'll arrange a boardroom coup to take away some of his autonomy, CEOs be warned, acting out like too much of a wildcard can appear self destructive and irrational to investors and shareholders alike
True. I do have a feeling like he'll get caught doing some fucked up shit and will go to jail but with all the money , its really hard to tell if he'll ever go to jail as jails are for poor people.
Trump is the best example. Hope he rots in jail but I doubt it
Couldn't agree more. He's all over the news all the time, but Lemmy seems especially obsessed with him. I understand, given the demographics here, but I wish he would just go away forever
Meh that seems like all social media tbh
The fucking prick really needs to learn to shut the fuck up for a change... And like yesterday.
I cant wait too see his ass in court for some crime hes been caught doing
Oh yeah.. hadn't even thought about it but you're right... That seems likely over a long enough timeline.
Rich people dont experience justice...
"We are absolutely appalled at this behavior!" [Buys more stock in Tesla] "I mean really, this has gone too far!" [Collects dividends] "He needs to resign, this is disgusting!" [Watches stock price climb] "this antisemitism must stop or else!" [Buys more stock]
In the interest of pedantry; TSLA doesn’t declare dividends.
Musk going down in history as the person removed from leadership in the largest number of billion dollar companies ever.
Tesla Investors Call for Musk's Suspension
They'll quickly find themselves in the same position as the GOP with Trump. Where they want to replace him and cut their losses but the cult of personality is around that one person and nothing else. That's what happens when your audience is so cult-like and fanatical. Not that I feel bad for either the GOP or Tesla obviously, it's still their fault for cultivating these bastards and they don't deserve the slightest sympathy.
Or just that Elon’s shares are big enough that he can dictate what happens
Shares of Tesla rose approximately 10% this week
Clickbait headlines. A few investors threw lip service but money talks and it seems most of them don't care too much.
Right after it dropped 30% tho
Yeah, thats just how stocks work. Stock goes up one day and down the next day.
So, you agree the upturns are as meaningless as the downturns. Good deal.
Well yes, but it's more about what it doesn't say than what it does. If "investors" in general we're all so upset they would pull out their investments and the price would crash. But that's not happening.
Why must someone upset at potential losses turn them into actual losses? You can’t think of an alternative, like pushing articles on some mouthpiece publication, maybe Gizmodo? Nope, if anyone cared they’d all show it by losing money and influence, obviously
Why must someone upset at potential losses turn them into actual losses?
...if they were concerned about "actual losses", they would be selling their shares so they would not turn into actual losses. But they don't care, and they know no one else does either, beyond complaining about it on Twitter.
Sorry, I forgot that when you want to sell a bunch of stocks everyone just buys them all at your preferred high price, and then the price magically goes down after
Huh?
I'm sure none of them care at all it's just pr damage control
"Who cares about the message attached? The product is solid!"
Well... About the product being solid... Turns out it's kinda flimsy and loose.
"Well, at least the message is good."
Musk finally end that step too far. Dude forgot there’s a world out there beyond the weird right-wing bubble he’s created for himself on X.
I think they'd have let him be as shitty as he wanted for as long as he wanted if not for their profits being impacted.
I’m sure his response will be doubling down and turning away more investors. But if that goofy fucking truck being shit, delayed, and possibly a scam didn’t dissuade them…
Melon Husk ranting about "cancel culture" in 3...2...1...
Hurt him in the way that's most painful to narcissists: remove his ability to generate narcissistic supply. Kill Xcrement.
Suspend him from where?
From a ridiculously slow lowering mechanism above a tank full of sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads.
I wouldn't even mind if we could only get particularly aggressive sea bass
I'm good with ill tempered or terribly vexed.
these investors can say what they want, but the only language musk speaks is money. Sell the shares, dump the stock price.
I can't wait till Tesla falls apart like the house of cards it is.
Tons of people gave Tesla a $250,000 interest-free loan in the form of pre-ordering the roadster that was supposed to be released two years ago. People are going to remember that and think twice before pre-ordering the next big car release
They sell vaporware, let's be real. Cybertruck is going to be a huge disaster calling it now
people are going to remember that
I really would doubt that unfortunately
Seems like IBM, Apple and Tesla all believe the Boer is a detriment to their brand.
BirdChan is turning into a shit show and the blast radius is very large. When you pretend to be smart and savvy catching up to you in a very large and glaringly painful way.
....but American jews are mostly white.......
I'm so confused.
Whiteness is arbitrary and can be withdrawn pretty fast. That's part of the problem, white isn't a race, it's an ingroup.
Ask a Catholic how quickly they can be exempted from white club.
That's race in general too, same thing happens with mixed black people who grew up in an affluent white context.
Race is basically "made real" through racism, which is largely dependent on economic relations. Our modern notion of race didn't really develop until the 1700s. To me being anti-racist is about criticizing the notion of race itself, with the understanding that it's been made in to a real construct that has power through racism.
Muslims used to be considered pretty white before 9/11, Italians used to not be considered white in the early 1900s.
Race is a construct, homie
Doesn't change anything, it's possible to identify with constructs, such as being gay, seeing that nobody seems to be "just" gay anymore, and it's more on the line of a spectrum. Where is the line drawn for any semantic definition?
About the only good thing investors have ever done
If you don't get in line Musk, I'll feed you to the peasant rats!
The peasant rats:
Doesn't he own the company?
No. He's the biggest shareholder, but only has a 13% share.
Oh my bad, I'm confusing it with twitter.
It's a publicly traded company. The shareholders own it.
Daily Musk spam
Regardless if you like Elon Musk or not, we should be careful not to become a vehicle (no pun intended) for some elites' political, ideological or religious agendas.
Let's not bag this guy just yet, he may be a bit of a loose cannon but if there's one thing that's kept China from descending into a hot war with Taiwan ironically it's not politics, it's this guy's charisma.
What twisted road has your mind travelled to arrive at this thought?
Another funny thought, are you curious to open my mind regarding the issue
So I'm not at the level of he should he removed as CEO yet, but his behavior and harm to the brand requires some sort of punishment by the board.
According to the latest biography the board chair and his brother (on the board) have already approached him about it.
At this time it's time for an intervention.
Suspend him as suggested in the article.
If he continues to act up after that remove him as CEO.
I mean if it was literally any other CEO, especially one without a majority share in the company, they'd be out on third strike. Elon is on strike 6
Strike 6 for this year so far
Sure, but he is a majority share holder.
I'd also say unless they've had an actual intervention with him that it'd be too soon for anyone.
Without the actual details on what Robyn and his brother said to him, its hard to know. Did they just beg him to stop, or demand he stop or face repercussions? (Edit: Maybe the full details are in the book, I haven't read it, just the commentary on it)
Even a normal majority shareholder CEO would be in the disciplinary seat, heck even the lawsuit defendant seat, much sooner if they tried to pull what Elon Musk did. It is literally illegal to knowingly act against the interests of your shareholders, something Elon did time and time again.
But has he been in the disciplinary seat? I whole heartedly agree he should have been by now.
But if they haven't, he's technically at strike 0
This is a failure of the board as much as it is a musk problem.
Hes not the majority shareholder of Tesla. He has 13%, not 51%.
Edit: looks like that difference is twitter but the timeline seems weird. He's still the top individual or group holder with 411m shares.
Sorry, fair enough. He's the TOP individual or group shareholder.
I think he might have gotten more shares since your number, or this number is after twitter, but it says 20.6% by March 2023
1. Elon Musk
According to Tesla’s 2022 Annual Report, Tesla’s CEO and founder, Elon Musk, owns 715.022 million shares, accounting for 20.6% of the 3.169 billion outstanding shares as of the end of March 2023, unchanged from the end of December 2022. That makes Musk Tesla’s biggest shareholder.
Without the good PR he used to give before showing his real face, he has zero value to any company he is part of, other than the money he has invested in it.
In fact, any policy influence he has with any of these companies is actually a detriment.
Elon never had any technical, intellectual or other expertise in any of the companies he was involved in.
All he ever had was the illusion of charisma and being a master bloviator.
Now that he has been exposing himself as nothing more than the petulant narcissistic manchild he is, that value he had has been dispelled.
SpaceXs previous chief propulsion engineer would disagree with you
Space.com: During your time working with Elon Musk at SpaceX, what were some important lessons you learned from each other?
Mueller: Elon was the best mentor I've ever had. Just how to have drive and be an entrepreneur and influence my team and really make things happen. He's a super smart guy and he learns from talking to people. He's so sharp, he just picks it up. When we first started he didn't know a lot about propulsion. He knew quite a bit about structures and helped the structures guys a lot. Over the twenty years that we worked together, now he's practically running propulsion there because he's come up to speed and he understands how to do rocket engines, which are really one of the most complex parts of the vehicle. He's always been excellent at architecting the whole mission, but now he's a lot better at the very small details of the combustion process. Stuff I learned over a decade-and-a-half at TRW he's picked up too.
Bullshit. Utter bullshit. The guy is just sucking Musk dick. Musk doesn't know anything about rockets.
Not a musk fan in the slightest, can't stand the man... but do you have any proof he actually has no clue about rockets? Easy to make the claim, but I'd love to see it backed up.
Do you have proof he knows anything besides testimonies from people that work for him?
They made the claim, they should back it up.
Again, I strongly dislike Musk, but I've only read testimonies that he knows his rockets. Give me counterproof, please! Any fuel for the musk fanboy tears is worth it. But I want it to be true, not just bashing for the sake of bashing
You aren't going to get any because there isn't.
There are so many things to hate about musk if that's your jam, but over the years I'm always surprised by how many people hate him for fake / made up reasons.
I think it stems from people wanting to hate him earlier on, well before he gave the world dozens of new reasons to hate him so they made shit up to make themselves feel better. Believe it or not there was also a concerted push to discredit him and Tesla early on to kill Tesla, so they helped manufacturer the hate.
But then he goes off the deep end and gives the world so many reasons to hate him without any of that, but the haters who want to hate for hates sake stick to the oldies.
Edit: so I applaud you challenging the BS stuff. Hate him for the real stuff!
Musk is a barely part time CEO of an automaker that had a 10 year head start and is about to get passed by just about every other major maker. He's producing cars rife with QA problems, and ships about equal parts vaporware to actual cars. There is also a ticking clock on a significant part of Tesla's business which is selling carbon offset credits (side note: what's the fucking point then?) and other subsidies that seem to have no plan to solve. He spends his actual time shitposting now with extra anti-semitism (and I guess we're glossing by the anti-LGBTQ shit he's posted several times.)
SpaceX is healthier, but also has massive weakness in that they largely that way because of massive subsidy and lack of regulation on shooting satellites into space.
Literally just about any other employee, not CEO would be fired 20 times over. That Elon remains the head of any company should send investors screaming for the hills because there is basically no clearer sign that the companies have no actual board and thus no actual oversight. Elon shouldn't be in charge of picking between McDonalds or Wendy's, much less an actual company.
It's not like he's a good CEO. They should just remove him.
If he continues to act up
what the fuck are you smoking, it only gets worse from here with this tool.. this was the reason he bought that piece of shit platform to begin with.. again, what the fuck are you smoking that you think he can be reined in..
You don't think a legitimate threat for his removal from Tesla would have any impact?
If it doesn't, then he'll be out and he can tweet whatever he wants.
it's funny watching people like you try to imagine that you think like him
This doesn't even make sense, did you mess up some words?
I think he should be disciplined, and then removed if he doesn't correct.
I'm pretty sure musk doesn't think he should be disciplined or removed, so I'm not sure how I'm thinking like him.
There you go. It was all OK until it impacted $$. Glad they finally did something, but wish it would have been based on an actual ethical concern.
this is one of the few levers of power we have. remember that every nickel they have comes from us working and us buying.
Free market morality.
To be fair, I think one could argue with a straight face that if we're still buying the products, then we really don't care that much. Why should a company be motivated by morality if we as a society collectively aren't?
We should hold ourselves to the same standards or we're just hypocrites.
If the only fridges on the market contain CFCs then people are going to buy them because they need fridges. If the only CFC-free fridges are more expensive than CFC ones then only affluent people, at most, are going to buy them.
It's called a market failure: There are costs associated with a product that are not taken into account because the regulatory regime doesn't make sure they are. In the case of CFCs we went even further than making fridge producers pay up for the externalities they cause (which would've been an astronomical sum) and right-out banned that stuff. The consumer, after all, is still saving money with CFC fridges (their food doesn't spoil as easily), they're not paying for the ozone hole, either.
See the free market is a theoretical model, it indeed promises prefect results given that all actors are perfectly rational and act on perfect information, the maths makes sense. Perfect rationality and information don't exist in the real world, though (and in fact ads and company secrets exist to degrade the information available to everyone) so we need regulations to fix market failures so that the real-world market comes closer to approximating the free market. Misunderstanding of this point brought to you by peddlers of institutionalised market failure equivocating "free market" and "unregulated market".
The EU tends to have a good grasp on it, the US, boy oh boy.
In principle I'm inclined to agree, however isn't this glossing over the degree to which markets are consolidated?
You try to opt out of products/services and choose more ethical alternatives, but it turns out the most readily available alternatives are in some way connected to the same unethical parent company. Ultimately the individualistic approach to addressing these matters is untenable and requires collective action in some form (ideally it would be leveraging a government that reflects the interests of the people).
And those companies have spent a ton of time and effort discouraging and preventing people from collectivizing via union busting. There's a huge power asymmetry at play here, an individual should not be held to the same standard of accountability as the people who literally control the economy through non-democratic or straight up unelected positions of leadership (board of investors or private CEOs respectively). They can, at any moment, choose to reduce their profit margin for the betterment of the planet - but they don't, because as a small group of owners, they exist to profit so they would never agree to do so in a meaningful way*. And because they're collectivised and we're not (just look at the swathe of antitrust cases where businesses that are supposed to compete, have instead chosen to act like a cartel), they hold almost all the power. Let's focus our attention away from blaming the average person, and onto the real root cause so that we can actually collectivise against that root cause rather than fight amongst each other.
*: without the state straight up socialising their risk, for example the green tech grants and loans we have been and are giving out, all over the world. Something Elon Musk is very familiar with, given that Tesla might not have existed today without the generous $465 million government loan they got in 2009.
"Opting out" doesn't mean you "opt in" to whatever forced you to "opt out" to begin with.
If I give you a choice between being punched in the face or getting kicked in the crotch, it's not moral acquiescence to either regardless which you choose.
Your argument rests on a fallacy- "vote with your wallet". This presumes that we don't vote with our voice anymore, so it supersedes a democratic system of governance.
Consider: "if you oppose slavery, just don't buy slaves, and we'll let the market sort out who's right and wrong"
Meaning this genuinely, not in a snarky way: did you read to the end of my comment? My phrasing may have been poor or a tad wordy, but I recognize what you're describing and advise collective, political action instead of voting with one's wallet.
The parenthetical at the end wasn't to suggest otherwise, only that doing so via one's existing/current government may not be a readily available option, demanding one change their government so as to make it work to those ends. I should have been clearer on that point.
No, I don't think you could, because you don't really have a choice.
I find this naive cynicism exasperating.
"Let's improve society somewhat."
"Yet, you partake in society! Curious! / sent from my iPhone"
Sent from graphene but sure
Supply side ethics
I think what you're saying is either inaccurate or excessively vague. Many ultra rich people got money by inheriting it, through the stock market, and to a much lesser degree, through government spending programs.
The way you framed the issue is a classic one, and it's essentially blaming us, the consumers, for creating the problem that we are facing. First of all, that would simply be inaccurate because there are many causes, and second of all, it doesn't really matter who you blame. The question is how we can fix the broken situation.
Not really. They said consumption AND labor. Stocks are capital, and their profits come from underpaying workers for the value they produce through labor. Inherited wealth is also acquired through and stored in capital.
In addition, the government is an essential part of capitalism, as it protects owned property more economically than the private armies of feudalism. Government spending programs that give the rich money are paid for by political donations, but the actual profitability is hard to quantify.
I love how you protest blaming consumers and then in the next sentence say "it doesn't matter who you blame". The answer to "how we can fix the broken situation" starts with identifying the problem (AKA laying blame).
In reality, there is no shortage of people to blame. You can blame the corporations, the stock market, politicians, nepotism, capitalism AND consumers, and none of that would be wrong. The only wrong thing to do is to remove blame from any of them.
blame, responsibility, and the ability to do something are three interrelated but distinct concepts. the ability to force bad actors to change by refusing to reward them for bad actions does not put the blame on us for failure to do so. If you forget to lock your front door and someone robs you, there was something you could have done to prevent the robbery but only the thief carries the blame.
Tesla batteries and modular car battery charging systems incoming, they're not going to give up their market foothold so easily now that they've got their foot in the door.
These people have money for blood, what makes you think their ethics are any different? I don't care what sets the face eating leopards off so long as they get to eating faces.
I don't expect people making bank to have many ethical concerns, tbh.
"It's just one small thing. Besides, there are many other things to complain about!" said every investor tied to everything people complain about, probably.
Expecting investors to behave ethically instead of in their financial interest? I see you're feeling bold today
Ethical concerns are not in line with corporate ethics.
This is capitalism. There is no place for “actual ethical concern.”
I'm waiting for Apple and Google to pull the X client from their app stores.
Then the fun really begins.
Not going to happen as all these companies work together. these companies are notorious to trick regulars into thinking they are helping the society.
SocialMediaPlatform™ does something horrible
Make a huge deal about pulling ads from SocialMediaPlatform™ to get consumers on your side
Quietly return ads to SocialMediaPlatform™ after PR team determines everyone has forgotten
SocialMediaPlatform™ does something even worse
GOTO 2
Lol so true. Its not just Twitter though, most of the companies do the same thing. However its on us to not make noise and boycott the shit outta these companies.
Why don't people just stop caring about whatever the fuck is going on at Twitter/X? I consider it in the same realm as truthsocial or OANN comment sections. Sure, musky had enough money to buy a platform, but that platform is elevated by it's users. If people just stopped doing that, it would be irrelevant. Literally nothing important has happened on twitter, ever. We don't need it. Just discard it and let it wither in the dark.
Because whatever the fuck is going on at Twitter impacts the world. Like it or not, Twitter still contains and controls an enormous amount of public discourse.
To add to this, every politician, journalist, and influencer is on Twitter, so even if a majority of people don't use it or post on it, the platform is a hub for ideas and real-time news.
Panem et circem.
Meet the circem.
They keep the panem.
something would have to be seriously wrong for that to happen
In the EU, App stores already have a legal responsibility to remove apps that promote hate speech. While both Google and Apple are sitting on the sidelines while the EU is going through the legal motions to tear Musk a new one, I wouldn't be surprised if they kick X out just before someone forces them too, just to pretend they actually care.
Just in time for the EU to also force third party app stores through, and X attempting to make one sounds plausible even if they get nowhere with it.
[gestures vaguely]
They already have no problem pulling other apps for shit that Xitter is known to pull. Even when said other apps have a similar lack of control (or even less) over said content.
And the users will migrate into the welcoming arms of the 粪 client instead.
I hate billionaire nazis
but you repeat yourself.
All billionaires are cunts. All Nazis are cunts. Not all billionaires are Nazis.
Yeah soros is a Holocaust survivor
That’s some fucked up shit to go through.
T Swizzle seems relatively cool, but every rule has its exceptions
I think Mark Cuban is okay. He seems like your typical rich guy, but not your typical billionaire.
Musk can a smoke fat dick. I am so sick of hearing about that cunt.
Can we just fully cancel his ass so we don't have to hear about him any more. I yearn for the day I no longer hear about Musk or Trump on a daily basis.
We let people get so fucking rich that everything they do is newsworthy because it actually impacts a ton of people.
The real problem is that we don't actually need rich people in the first place.
This story highlights why news about this is still important. The investors wouldn't be doing this if they thought a lot of people wouldn't hear about it and be disgusted.
I couldn't care less about whatever else he does, but when he does something awful, spread it as much as you can. We can see very clearly that not all news is good news for him. And one thing I do want to see is him discovering the consequences of his action, for once in his life.
And he'll never go away, ever. As long as he has munny he will be a thorn in everyones side, he cannot simply be voted out like a politician sadly
Or—and please, sit down before you read any further—the media could…stop reporting every single thing he says. [thunder crashes. children scream.]
Nah he'll just be forced to sell some shares before a big profit or they'll arrange a boardroom coup to take away some of his autonomy, CEOs be warned, acting out like too much of a wildcard can appear self destructive and irrational to investors and shareholders alike
True. I do have a feeling like he'll get caught doing some fucked up shit and will go to jail but with all the money , its really hard to tell if he'll ever go to jail as jails are for poor people. Trump is the best example. Hope he rots in jail but I doubt it
Couldn't agree more. He's all over the news all the time, but Lemmy seems especially obsessed with him. I understand, given the demographics here, but I wish he would just go away forever
Meh that seems like all social media tbh
The fucking prick really needs to learn to shut the fuck up for a change... And like yesterday.
I cant wait too see his ass in court for some crime hes been caught doing
Oh yeah.. hadn't even thought about it but you're right... That seems likely over a long enough timeline.
Rich people dont experience justice...
"We are absolutely appalled at this behavior!" [Buys more stock in Tesla] "I mean really, this has gone too far!" [Collects dividends] "He needs to resign, this is disgusting!" [Watches stock price climb] "this antisemitism must stop or else!" [Buys more stock]
In the interest of pedantry; TSLA doesn’t declare dividends.
Musk going down in history as the person removed from leadership in the largest number of billion dollar companies ever.
They'll quickly find themselves in the same position as the GOP with Trump. Where they want to replace him and cut their losses but the cult of personality is around that one person and nothing else. That's what happens when your audience is so cult-like and fanatical. Not that I feel bad for either the GOP or Tesla obviously, it's still their fault for cultivating these bastards and they don't deserve the slightest sympathy.
Or just that Elon’s shares are big enough that he can dictate what happens
Clickbait headlines. A few investors threw lip service but money talks and it seems most of them don't care too much.
Right after it dropped 30% tho
Yeah, thats just how stocks work. Stock goes up one day and down the next day.
So, you agree the upturns are as meaningless as the downturns. Good deal.
Well yes, but it's more about what it doesn't say than what it does. If "investors" in general we're all so upset they would pull out their investments and the price would crash. But that's not happening.
Why must someone upset at potential losses turn them into actual losses? You can’t think of an alternative, like pushing articles on some mouthpiece publication, maybe Gizmodo? Nope, if anyone cared they’d all show it by losing money and influence, obviously
...if they were concerned about "actual losses", they would be selling their shares so they would not turn into actual losses. But they don't care, and they know no one else does either, beyond complaining about it on Twitter.
Sorry, I forgot that when you want to sell a bunch of stocks everyone just buys them all at your preferred high price, and then the price magically goes down after
Huh?
I'm sure none of them care at all it's just pr damage control
"Who cares about the message attached? The product is solid!"
Well... About the product being solid... Turns out it's kinda flimsy and loose.
"Well, at least the message is good."
Musk finally end that step too far. Dude forgot there’s a world out there beyond the weird right-wing bubble he’s created for himself on X.
Personally I think the only reason for this action is the Swedish Unions blockade.
I think they'd have let him be as shitty as he wanted for as long as he wanted if not for their profits being impacted.
I’m sure his response will be doubling down and turning away more investors. But if that goofy fucking truck being shit, delayed, and possibly a scam didn’t dissuade them…
Melon Husk ranting about "cancel culture" in 3...2...1...
Hurt him in the way that's most painful to narcissists: remove his ability to generate narcissistic supply. Kill Xcrement.
Suspend him from where?
From a ridiculously slow lowering mechanism above a tank full of sharks with frickin' laser beams on their heads.
I wouldn't even mind if we could only get particularly aggressive sea bass
I'm good with ill tempered or terribly vexed.
these investors can say what they want, but the only language musk speaks is money. Sell the shares, dump the stock price.
I can't wait till Tesla falls apart like the house of cards it is.
Tons of people gave Tesla a $250,000 interest-free loan in the form of pre-ordering the roadster that was supposed to be released two years ago. People are going to remember that and think twice before pre-ordering the next big car release
They sell vaporware, let's be real. Cybertruck is going to be a huge disaster calling it now
I really would doubt that unfortunately
Seems like IBM, Apple and Tesla all believe the Boer is a detriment to their brand.
BirdChan is turning into a shit show and the blast radius is very large. When you pretend to be smart and savvy catching up to you in a very large and glaringly painful way.
....but American jews are mostly white.......
I'm so confused.
Whiteness is arbitrary and can be withdrawn pretty fast. That's part of the problem, white isn't a race, it's an ingroup.
Ask a Catholic how quickly they can be exempted from white club.
That's race in general too, same thing happens with mixed black people who grew up in an affluent white context.
Race is basically "made real" through racism, which is largely dependent on economic relations. Our modern notion of race didn't really develop until the 1700s. To me being anti-racist is about criticizing the notion of race itself, with the understanding that it's been made in to a real construct that has power through racism.
Muslims used to be considered pretty white before 9/11, Italians used to not be considered white in the early 1900s.
Race is a construct, homie
Doesn't change anything, it's possible to identify with constructs, such as being gay, seeing that nobody seems to be "just" gay anymore, and it's more on the line of a spectrum. Where is the line drawn for any semantic definition?
Jews are only white when it's convenient.
I mean, I tan pretty well, and I've got pretty big lips for a white boy, but day to day, I have light skin, blue eyes, and light brown hair.
Doesn't matter, if your ancestors touched the Mediterranean then your white status can be revoked. Only the North Sea gets permanent membership.
I'm Polish, and they only begrudgingly accept us as white.
About the only good thing investors have ever done
The peasant rats:
Doesn't he own the company?
No. He's the biggest shareholder, but only has a 13% share.
Oh my bad, I'm confusing it with twitter.
It's a publicly traded company. The shareholders own it.
Daily Musk spam
Regardless if you like Elon Musk or not, we should be careful not to become a vehicle (no pun intended) for some elites' political, ideological or religious agendas.
Let's not bag this guy just yet, he may be a bit of a loose cannon but if there's one thing that's kept China from descending into a hot war with Taiwan ironically it's not politics, it's this guy's charisma.
What twisted road has your mind travelled to arrive at this thought?
Another funny thought, are you curious to open my mind regarding the issue
So I'm not at the level of he should he removed as CEO yet, but his behavior and harm to the brand requires some sort of punishment by the board.
According to the latest biography the board chair and his brother (on the board) have already approached him about it.
At this time it's time for an intervention.
Suspend him as suggested in the article.
If he continues to act up after that remove him as CEO.
I mean if it was literally any other CEO, especially one without a majority share in the company, they'd be out on third strike. Elon is on strike 6
Strike 6 for this year so far
Sure, but he is a majority share holder.
I'd also say unless they've had an actual intervention with him that it'd be too soon for anyone.
Without the actual details on what Robyn and his brother said to him, its hard to know. Did they just beg him to stop, or demand he stop or face repercussions? (Edit: Maybe the full details are in the book, I haven't read it, just the commentary on it)
Even a normal majority shareholder CEO would be in the disciplinary seat, heck even the lawsuit defendant seat, much sooner if they tried to pull what Elon Musk did. It is literally illegal to knowingly act against the interests of your shareholders, something Elon did time and time again.
But has he been in the disciplinary seat? I whole heartedly agree he should have been by now.
But if they haven't, he's technically at strike 0
This is a failure of the board as much as it is a musk problem.
Hes not the majority shareholder of Tesla. He has 13%, not 51%.
Edit: looks like that difference is twitter but the timeline seems weird. He's still the top individual or group holder with 411m shares.
Sorry, fair enough. He's the TOP individual or group shareholder.
I think he might have gotten more shares since your number, or this number is after twitter, but it says 20.6% by March 20231. Elon MuskAccording to Tesla’s 2022 Annual Report, Tesla’s CEO and founder, Elon Musk, owns 715.022 million shares, accounting for 20.6% of the 3.169 billion outstanding shares as of the end of March 2023, unchanged from the end of December 2022. That makes Musk Tesla’s biggest shareholder.Without the good PR he used to give before showing his real face, he has zero value to any company he is part of, other than the money he has invested in it.
In fact, any policy influence he has with any of these companies is actually a detriment.
Elon never had any technical, intellectual or other expertise in any of the companies he was involved in.
All he ever had was the illusion of charisma and being a master bloviator.
Now that he has been exposing himself as nothing more than the petulant narcissistic manchild he is, that value he had has been dispelled.
SpaceXs previous chief propulsion engineer would disagree with you
Bullshit. Utter bullshit. The guy is just sucking Musk dick. Musk doesn't know anything about rockets.
Not a musk fan in the slightest, can't stand the man... but do you have any proof he actually has no clue about rockets? Easy to make the claim, but I'd love to see it backed up.
Do you have proof he knows anything besides testimonies from people that work for him?
They made the claim, they should back it up.
Again, I strongly dislike Musk, but I've only read testimonies that he knows his rockets. Give me counterproof, please! Any fuel for the musk fanboy tears is worth it. But I want it to be true, not just bashing for the sake of bashing
You aren't going to get any because there isn't.
There are so many things to hate about musk if that's your jam, but over the years I'm always surprised by how many people hate him for fake / made up reasons.
I think it stems from people wanting to hate him earlier on, well before he gave the world dozens of new reasons to hate him so they made shit up to make themselves feel better. Believe it or not there was also a concerted push to discredit him and Tesla early on to kill Tesla, so they helped manufacturer the hate.
But then he goes off the deep end and gives the world so many reasons to hate him without any of that, but the haters who want to hate for hates sake stick to the oldies.
Edit: so I applaud you challenging the BS stuff. Hate him for the real stuff!
Musk is a barely part time CEO of an automaker that had a 10 year head start and is about to get passed by just about every other major maker. He's producing cars rife with QA problems, and ships about equal parts vaporware to actual cars. There is also a ticking clock on a significant part of Tesla's business which is selling carbon offset credits (side note: what's the fucking point then?) and other subsidies that seem to have no plan to solve. He spends his actual time shitposting now with extra anti-semitism (and I guess we're glossing by the anti-LGBTQ shit he's posted several times.)
SpaceX is healthier, but also has massive weakness in that they largely that way because of massive subsidy and lack of regulation on shooting satellites into space.
Literally just about any other employee, not CEO would be fired 20 times over. That Elon remains the head of any company should send investors screaming for the hills because there is basically no clearer sign that the companies have no actual board and thus no actual oversight. Elon shouldn't be in charge of picking between McDonalds or Wendy's, much less an actual company.
It's not like he's a good CEO. They should just remove him.
what the fuck are you smoking, it only gets worse from here with this tool.. this was the reason he bought that piece of shit platform to begin with.. again, what the fuck are you smoking that you think he can be reined in..
You don't think a legitimate threat for his removal from Tesla would have any impact?
If it doesn't, then he'll be out and he can tweet whatever he wants.
it's funny watching people like you try to imagine that you think like him
This doesn't even make sense, did you mess up some words?
I think he should be disciplined, and then removed if he doesn't correct.
I'm pretty sure musk doesn't think he should be disciplined or removed, so I'm not sure how I'm thinking like him.