A formerly amazing charity now abandoning their principles and going for an IPO. What a shame.
Market Capitalism has poisoned the very core of humanity, civilization, and literally the COMMUNal environment we all rely on from one breath to the next.
Good thing the market capitalists are so fucking confident that the solution is... going harder on market capitalism. We'll just merge, monopolize, and lay off our way into human happiness and equilibrium, won't we?
That's why the owners propagating this system are building luxury bunker compounds in places like New Zealand, because they're planning to clean up their mess and have confidence in a bright future!
Can you link to these NZ bunkers ?
Also you know that NZ is basically a giant volcano.
Lake Taupo, is a scheduled to blow and will wipe out most of the north island.
It isn't some magically island paradise that the rich can runaway from the world.
One more, from a guy who was invited to consulting of a group of them.
Just this year he lost a bid to build a new property which was to be built into a remote hillside alongside Lake Wanaka on New Zealand's South Island.
So no. No bunkers. Didn't get approval and would be a pretty easy to find if someone gets approval for a bunker somewhere.
Those two articles. Both articles and not much more than speculation.
One article actually hints at it. However it doesn't change the facts. NZ is a Yellowstone waiting to happen. Bunker or not the island is toasts.
Also there's a reason NZ doesn't have skyscrapers an d concrete buildings. The amount of earthquakes would make building a bunker pretty dam near impossible.
Deeper you dig to hide from calamity above you. Closer you get to calamity below you.
What's your definition of a skyscraper? We have a load of buildings over 150m high, 40+ stories.
We have fancy earthquake tech for our tall buildings, like counterweights.
We're the same as Japan, we're both on the "ring of fire", basically little scabs of islands where continents rub against each other.
Japan has loads of tall buildings. And concrete ones too.
"the island is toasts" lol.
We do have plenty tall buildings in Auckland Welly chc and stuff. But not dotted all over the island. Likely because you'd need to drill into volcanic rock. Which is pretty expensive and difficult to do. I assume they place the taller building in places without volcanic rock.
Can you counterweight a bunker deep under earth ?
That was my point
I'm sure Japan and every other nation with super volcanoes had the same issues. Which is the point. NZ isn't off planet. It has just as much risk as anywhere else. If not more due to Taupo super volcano.
I think expense & population not feasibility is why we don't have them dotted all over.
Surely an underground rock bunker would be exactly what they're looking for? Very "evil villain" aesthetic.
I'm dubious of claims of being overdue. How solid is the science backing those claims?
Well, the upside is if taupo goes, I should get a good view being only a few hours away 😬
Makes sense,
Well volcano lair sounds great. Until it blows.
Pretty good science. But who knows.
I think if it goes. North island goes. It's a super volcano. Whole of Taupo. So South island might survive but the ash cloud and radiation might do them in
They're also building quite a few in the heartland of the US. Although honestly I think they're one big scam by the people actually constructing them -- fully stocked luxury bunker for you, your family, friends, etc all on some billionaires' dime. If shit hits the fan and you don't let them in what're they gonna do -- sue you about it?
The billionaire doomsday prepper mindset is ridiculous when you think about it for 30 seconds. Physical control over the resources around would be all that mattered, not how much Monopoly money you had in the before times.
Not to mention that billionaires are fancy lads and lasses expecting to be waited on hand and foot. When their operations and Security people, people much more generally competent then them in every conceivable real world way, no longer has use for them or their paychecks, they will become their bunkers very, very quickly, especially because wealthy people don't know how to share and will treat them as staff and not people, let alone friends.
I can't imagine them finding security that meets their standards for employment that also lacks opportunism. You don't agree to protect Bezos from the hoards of Bezos' victims without being selfish to begin with.
That's why they want drones and robot security so badly.
And for what reason exactly? IPOs are either for owners to cash out or for the company to gather investment money. RPi doesn't really need money, they sell an extremely popular product. They literally can't produce enough product to quench the Pi thirst.
this is the heart of the matter.
business majors are taught if youre not growing your failing. if its not quarter over quarter kpi improvements youre failing.
businesses dont get to just be. they are constantly forced into always getting bigger or more profitable apparently no matter what.
any solid little company ends up getting bought and injected into the verticle.... because humans are weak, and almost all of us have a price.
Things looked bad when they hired that cop and doubled down on his defensive BS. Now it’s arduino and esp32s for me
Orange pi and banana pi and other knock offs is good too... Yet, till they follow that path too
pine64
Aaron Swartz is probably spinning in his grave right now
Quick, bring the generator to harvest the green energy!
Going public will fuck them up. Every corporate move will be tied to the stock. It will inevitably destroy them.
Which, at this point, I’m here for. Although I do miss the days when they were a force for good. Or at least nerds. Ah well. Sayonara, you insulting bastards.
I don't expect people to see any change in how we do things.
When companies say this, they'll usually do the exact opposite later down the line.
Enshittification be like
Exactly that's just bullshit to make people think everything is gonna be fine. It's the stock market. People with the most shares demand you make them more money. That's how it works. So everything will be turned upside down at some point.
Stating outright that you don't expect the obvious thing that always happens to happen... bro you're already giving shareholders a reason to say you're an incompetent manager and replace you with someone that will gut the company for stock growth.
When you hear this from any company, get out. Sell whatever you have in it immediately. Even if you take a loss, you'll take a bigger one waiting it out.
Nah.
"Don't be evil"
AAAAAAAAA I HATE ENSHITTIFICATION
WHY DO YOU ALWAYS NEED MORE FUCKING MONEY
FUCK
Its been coming for a while tho. They abandoned the affordable market long ago.
Buy banana pis or other knockoffs, those have been better than the raspberry versions for a long time anyways...
How is the community on the alternatives? I always hear that raspberry Pis is easier to beginners due to the community. Alternatives are cheaper and faster but doesn't have a big community so not too user friendly.
I started with rockchip devices because I couldn't get a real rpi. I had no trouble getting help for anything I was trying to do.
Depends on what you get, grab an Ox64 to be thrown in the deep deep end, while anything that supports Armbian will be just fine.
How did they abandon the affordable market? You can get a 1GB pi 4 for $35 today, the same price as when it launched. You get get a zero 2 for $15 I think. Just because the pi 5 is more expensive doesn't mean they've abandoned the affordable market. They just widened the product line. Jeez.
Thank you! This is the kind of info I was looking for. Fuck IPOs.
They don't just want more money. He wants a huge payout for retirement. And fuxk everyone else.
You either die the hero, or live long enough to become the villain.
Didn't they start as a non-profit? But I guess, as someone I know used to say, there's one god everybody worships: the money god.
Because that's the non-profit organization, not the for-profit business.
A non-profit in the same way OpenAI is a non-profit.
"Buy me senpai!"
Non-profit to enjoy the perks that come with that until they're big enough to cash out.
Technically they still are, but the nonprofit owns and controls a for-profit corporation. I think they made that switcheroo a little over a decade ago, but someone else can fact check me the timing.
Just like Mozilla, OpenAI and wikimedia foundation. The future looks bright /s
oh I didn't know wikimedia was also a for profit in disguise. that sucks hard.
Is that an actual for-profit company controlled by the non-profit wikimedia foundation, or just a way for the foundation to make money to run its operations? My understanding is it's the latter, unlike Mozilla and now Raspberry Pi. See here:
Wikimedia Enterprise is a product of the Wikimedia Foundation, with content created by volunteers around the world.
A nonprofit doesn't have to rely exclusively on donations to fund its operarions.
it's not. They do have a commercial product they use to fund their operation, in addition to donations, but that doesn't make them a for-profit company.
Uh, no? It's the other way around?
According to who? You? Because the UK government says otherwise.
Raspberry Pi LTD (for-profit, founded 2012) is owned by the Raspberry Pi Foundation (non-profit, founded 2008).
I just took some time to watch that video, and that seems to say "Yes" instead. Yes, they started as a non-profit, with a for-profit arm, and Yes, the for-profit arm is now trying to sell out in an IPO to (guess what) make more money. And while they are distinct entities, there's some of the same people on the board for both, who are likely going to profit.
Oh no, the tipping point for enshitification. First it was selling all the stock to corporate clients, now this.
Oh no, please no. They were supposed to be the best of us.
Oh no, please no. They were supposed to be the best of us.
No King rules forever.
RIP Raspberry Pi. Whenever-2024
2012, I think... that's why I got my first Pi. I guess the enshitification will begin :(
ahh shit...here we go again
I don't think I've ever been excited about the IPO of a company I'm a customer of. This trend continues.
"Go forth, and procreate" has come to mean "amass, forever".
My first Pi got me into computing which led to my software career now. Won it from a YouTube giveaway and kept it a secret because I wasn't allowed to have a computer. Put retroPi on it and told my parents it was for gaming. Coded my first game in Python (from a tutorial). I once put it in a crayon box and used that as a portable handheld. Later. Made a janky arcade cabinet. Sad that my kids may need to use a different brand device. I have no love for public companies
You were allowed to game but not program???
They were scared of unmonitored access to the internet. And only up to T rated games were allowed, so for Halo I used to trade game cases with friends to hide what I owned. And since my parents were extremely Snoopy, I'd even switch my T rated games around so they thought I was just too lazy to match a game disk with it's case, and never get too suspicious.
Edit: Programming was allowed, just had to be on the shared computer in our living room where everyone could see what you were doing.
When I was leaving for college I bought a laptop and they made me keep it in the box until I left. It was honesty torture. I wanted to set it up and stuff but they insisted that our home computer would work fine...
Not to be too personal, but did that affect you a lot later in life, I mean the constant being on guard and fear of getting caught, to always have a lie ready to go and be nervous all the time? I find that if affects most people like that, but roughly one in five instead become super chill and really get their shit sorted. I'm not going anywhere specific with this, I just got curious from an academic and personal experience pov.
Yeah definitely some lasting consequence. I'm a pretty good liar, and extremely skilled at manipulating people to calm down. Sometimes I wish I stood my ground better and let there be friction between me and others. Instead I sort of morph into whatever they need, sometimes abandoning my core principals. It came in handy to save my siblings' asses a few times though. But literally just yesterday my wife was video calling her mom and showed her my brand new ear piercings (which I've wanted my whole life, but is a huge no no for men in Mormon circles, so it'll be a big deal when my side of the family finds out) - anyway, I wanna stretch/gauge them because I like the look of small tunnels, so my mother in law says, "they look so nice, but you won't gauge them, right?" And I'm like "no of course not" because I know it's probably a bit shocking to her that I pierced them at all. But I wish I instead said something non-commital like "not now, but I love the look of small gauges"
Overall, the biggest effect is probably the distance I feel towards my parents lol
If your curious, I'd describe myself as quite chill, but very reserved. I wouldn't even say I was constantly on guard... I was just a good liar. Got caught for very few things. I have a lot of siblings though (10), so I doubt I'd have had as much opportunity if I were an only child or something
manipulating people to calm down.
There are worse uses! It's like I thought, you're one of the good ones.
edit:
a big deal when my side of the family finds out
I am sorry my man. That's some silly shit for anyone to get upset about. Grats on the pierces! I got fuck drunk at a festival when I was 16 and came home to mom and dad with pierced eyebrows. There were some very very frowny faces at home for some time, but I got away with it. I think they knew that ultimately, I don't give a shit what they think. I just happen to, but I don't have'ta. Good thing with many siblings. Then you can flow around them and disappear in the crowd so to speak. Peace.
Can't have a "computer" but can have an entertainment system, I guess.
It was more about moral concerns of the internet. Pretty common thing for Mormon parents to do. But yeah entertainment may have played a role, they weren't exactly what I'd call "active" parents.
Sure, that's the sort of thing I was alluding to. Not wanting to give a child a more capable system, while still giving them a distraction box.
I was basically handed a C64 straight outta the womb, and I think I've been so spoiled by having such free access to devices and technology, and be able to just tag along for the ride of the IT revolution, so I didn't bother to learn to code.
I just figured that down the line they'd come up with AI that could code for me, and while I was right, I really could have learned coding and be a total IT pimp by now. Now I'm just an IT chump, which is still nice, but still.
There's something to be said of deprivation. If all you've got to play with is sticks and stones, that's when your mind come up with the sickest creations.
My wife and I have wondered about this idea. If we were to have kids, we'd want them to be tech savy and inventive, but hopefully not get too addicted to the internet at a young age. There's something to be said about not buying them a computer, but letting them build one, I think. But it's an odd line to walk.
Definitely will say I was interested in what I couldn't have, but I do think there are healthier ways to fuel an interest. Hope that someday my kids will just want to tinker with my stuff
Of all the things I expected to enshittify during 2024 I certainly didn't expect we'd start with the Pi.
Gross.
Anyone wanna start up a 501c3 to fill in the void?
I would if I could
uh oh.
rpis are gonna be a subscription service now.
Who's the competition at this point? We need a competitor now.
Radza (make RockPi)
Pine64
FriendlyARM (NanoPi)
Orange Pi
SinoVOIP (Banana Pi)
HardKernel (Odroid)
LicheePi (for RISC-V lovers)
Is there a generic name for this kind of product? I figure I'll be interested in these at some point in the future, at which point I will have long since forgotten the list but will be able to google them up given the right terminology. Other than "raspberry pi alternative" which would inevitably center the results around how they relate to the rpi rather than the products themselves.
Do those RPi-compatible things by now come with PCIe lanes? Back in the days I decided against each and every one of them on that basis alone and went with a NanoPC-T4, a fast SSD really makes a difference in those types of devices, SD cards just don't cut it. Can't achieve full speed at PCIe2.1x4 but hey I'm not going to complain about 2GiB/s when the board cost as much as the SSD.
And there were indeed some madlads who got dedicated GPUs running with the thing. The onboard GPU definitely isn't too bad (and the driver situation should be sane by now), and the VPU is a beast, decoding 4k@60Hz. (The RK3399 SoC was designed for set-top boxes so that stuff is right up its alley).
Not slots in the big comp sense but the tech is there and it's just started to get used for storage devices (e.g. NVMe M.2 ports and built in eMMC modules). Also PCIe-backed network ports (2.5Gb)
If you fancy taking a look then three good SBCs I'd support are:
Rock Pi 4 - best tech support with their own Linux builds
Orange Pi 5
Banana Pi M7 - best for community of weirdos
Always worth checking they get good support (wiki, docs, forums) with recent OS builds. For example Orange Pi isn't great at providing builds for it's boards. Banana Pi is great for giving users the chance to ship their builds to others so the Wiki is crammed with newish builds. Rock SBCs have official OS builds
I am coming across a company called Libre Computer (Le Potato), or those comparable too?
CEO Eben Upton [said] "while I'm involved in running the thing, I don't expect people to see any change in how we do things."
Ah, the good old Godfather gambit.
Shareholders: "Do you intend to price gauge your customers?"
CEO: "No!"
Shareholders: "So who's the new CEO?"
Respect for correct use of square brackets.
Well… RIP the Pi.
CEO says firm will "keep doing the same stuff" at least "while I'm in charge."
Narrator: he became President for Life
What would be the second best in terms of popularity, community and affordability?
Pine and BeagleBoard have some decent options, but they'll always be more expensive than rpi because of the economy of scale.
If you don't mind dogshit Rockchip Windows only shit-wear you'd do well with an OrangePi.
is there any comparable risc-v option?
STAR64? Don't know how they compare on benchmarks, but Pine64 has a few products that are risc-v.
Afaik the StarFive SOCs used in SBCs are a lot slower than current ARM offerings. Part of that might be because software support is worse, so maybe compilers and related tooling aren't yet optimized for them?
Hopefully development on these continues to improve though. The biggest nail in the coffin for Pi alternatives has been software support.
It's also a super new architecture and completely open source. Development will simply be slower. There's enough "mainstream" Pi competitors with risc-v offerings though that I'm confident that it will happen.
STAR64 is an ARM board. Pine64 is definitely eyeing RISC-V heavily but last I checked the only product that actually shipped with a RISC-V CPU is the pinecil featuring a SiFive E24, a beefy microcontroller. Ridiculously beefy for a soldering iron, but a microcontroller nonetheless.
Killing off ARM in that segment is still some ways off but RISC-V already has a firm foothold in the microcontroller space. Also Arduinos are absolutely overpriced which doesn't help them a bit.
The Quartz64 Model A is a single-board computer featuring the Rockchip RK3566 SoC. This SoC combines a quad-core, ARM Cortex-A55 CPU with a Mali-G52-2EE GPU.
...as said, I haven't kept up to date. Don't shoot the messenger shoot Pine64's webdev.
The Pinecil was their first Risc-V product and the first commercial product with Risc-V made by anyone.
As a dedicated and user-programmable device, probably yes but e.g. Seagate has been shipping HDDs with RISC-V controllers for ages. Apparently they want/need custom silicon and paying ARM for a CortexM0 license was just something they decided wasn't necessary, and actually annoying as you can't easily extend the ARM to include custom instructions, ARM is very protective of compatibility and everything.
There are a lot of cheap Arduino UNO and NANO knockoffs and the tech is so stupidly simple (and ancient) it doesn't take much to design your own (you can put together the most of the hw on a breadboard as long as you get an extrenal USB-Serial adaptor module, and those are also cheap as chips)
For the more modern and powerful stuff at that end of the computing power (i.e. the low, low, oh-so-low end) the simplest option is an ESP8266 or ESP32, which you can get as a module for about $3 - $5 or as a board for about 2x to 3x the price.
That said, this stuff are microcontrollers, not microprocessors, and they're nowhere in the same range as SBCs like the Pi, so I wouldn't advise using one of those if what you want is something that can run Linux and use displays with more resolution than 128x80.
I think the RPi has done it's job (cheap, relatively open hardware), and kickstarted the market.
Maybe they were struggling with "what do we do next?", and selling up to let the founders do new things is not the most terrible option.
Am getting a feeling they are going to implode soon so better ride the thunder and sell for as much money as possible. They were great for what they set to achieve, but then started to favor industry and big buyers instead of their original customers. These days fan base is slowly crumbling as they still struggle to keep shelves stocked and production going. Scalpers are not helping this situation either and people are deciding to go with competitors more and more.
More to the point, some of the more powerful options of RPi are not even that cheaper than Intel's Nuc or other mini computers.
I would hope IPO money means they can finally invest in the infrastructure to solve their supply problems.
Am not as optimistic.
Have we really got a replacement though? A £200 N100 mini PC is not in the same ballpark of disposability as a £40 board.
The thing is, they're not £40 any more (at least, the 5 isn't). A brief check here, puts the 4GB at £59, and the 8GB at £79.
Hopefully, they'll continue to make the previous models at a reasonable price.
I mean it was never that anyway, once you'd bought a power supply for it and a case.
I think they're at least powered by USB-C now, so people probably have that already, while the Pi3 wasn't quite within spec for regular micro USB so needed a custom power supply.
It's funny, I remember hitting issues with my pi3 running homeassistant with lots of dongles.
Eventually I worked out that the random reboots were down to power draw.
Power fickleness varies across every pi we’ve looked that. They need clean and steady or you can have some wild results.
They need proprietary 25w 5V5A chargers. It does not work with all USB C.
There are now plenty of companies making single-board computers. There are even ones based on Rockchip that run almost entirely on free software. The only things RPi had going for it were brand recognition and software support.
Can't wait for the subscription based Pi.
Always online IoT-Pi
Pi was just the first. There are so many tiny hobbiest computers out there now. Not gonna sweat it.
Pi was the third and some decimals. But your point stands.
So, who in the SBC space is considered #2? They need to be elevated... at least until they decide to do an IPO.
Probably Radxa or OrangePi, both using RockChip SoCs, iirc. The problem that I have is that they have a lack of mainline kernel support and seem to be requiring ancient kernels with proprietary patches.
I'm somewhat optimistic about Milk-V with their RISC-V SBCs but they have been supply constrained and also don't have great kernel support yet.
RIP.
Pi has gotten too expensive anyway. And the alternative sbcs have to be thoroughly researched before getting to make sure you can install a usable OS. Why is a typical bios/uefi so hard on arm?
I remember when they used to be like twenty bucks. That was, like, the whole point. I remember when people were talking about how it would revolutionize education because now every "third world" country could afford to buy computers for all the students. I suppose that didn't happen for more than one reason, but it was a nice dream while it lasted.
You can buy a Pi zero 2 W for $15. A pi 3 model A will cost you $25. The pi 3 model B+ and pi 4 model B are both $35. The prices haven't gone up. Your expectations have gone up and the price of similar x86 hardware has come down.
You can argue that the value of the pi lineup has diminished, and that's a valid argument, but these price complaints are just silly.
Probably looking at the scalper prices, specially considering that at least in the recent past, not sure about now, they were very difficult to obtain without paying some scalper price.
Complaining about scalper prices is fine as long as you lay the blame at the right foot. The ones to blame for those prices are the scalpers and the people who buy from them.
Is there something like a CM4 knockoff around? I mean compatible to the cm4. Context: I got a Turing pi 2 board lying around waiting to become my new k3s homelab cluster. They ship with adapters for the cm4, so I need somewhat a board that is pin and software compatible.
There's plenty, for example from Orange Pi and from Banana Pi
Thanks I will check that out. I never even thought of looking into rpi knock offs
A lot of them have better specs. Where you lose out is the ecosystem of supported devices and software, but the names above should be in a good spot for k3.
Pine64 has a Quartz64 based compute module that uses the same Pin layout as CM4. I have 2 of them but I was a bit too early on the project last time I tried it. There was no official distro or kernel support at the time but it seems like things have gotten better.
All good things must come to an end I suppose
And so it begins...
I wanted to start my comment with "As a long time fan of the company...", but then I remembered I still use PI 2b few times a week for what feels like a decade+ and that is all I ever got (besides buying that first PI Zero for some reason also forever ago).
Wait, that's illegal ...
You should apply for a job as head of their legal department..
Well, I guess we're gonna have to take control
I'm an investor and you should add a hardware video encoder
Enshitification of Rasoberrypi. Didn't see that coming.
RSVP RPi
No, this isn't a bad thing. It's a common misconception. Raspberry pi trading is going for an ipo. They've always been profit oriented. The raspberry pi foundation is still nonprofit, despite sharing some members.
You can still take issue with a for-profit private company going for an IPO. They are the part that does all of the hardware and software development and the impacts that public trading will have on them will be felt regardless of if the Foundation side remains unchanged.
A formerly amazing charity now abandoning their principles and going for an IPO. What a shame.
Market Capitalism has poisoned the very core of humanity, civilization, and literally the COMMUNal environment we all rely on from one breath to the next.
Good thing the market capitalists are so fucking confident that the solution is... going harder on market capitalism. We'll just merge, monopolize, and lay off our way into human happiness and equilibrium, won't we?
That's why the owners propagating this system are building luxury bunker compounds in places like New Zealand, because they're planning to clean up their mess and have confidence in a bright future!
Can you link to these NZ bunkers ?
Also you know that NZ is basically a giant volcano. Lake Taupo, is a scheduled to blow and will wipe out most of the north island.
It isn't some magically island paradise that the rich can runaway from the world.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2022/sep/04/super-rich-prepper-bunkers-apocalypse-survival-richest-rushkoff
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-19/-we-needed-to-go-rich-americans-activate-pandemic-escape-plans?embedded-checkout=true
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11554367/Doomsday-bunkers-new-fad-four-ten-Americans-feel-living-end-times.html
One more, from a guy who was invited to consulting of a group of them.
Just this year he lost a bid to build a new property which was to be built into a remote hillside alongside Lake Wanaka on New Zealand's South Island.
So no. No bunkers. Didn't get approval and would be a pretty easy to find if someone gets approval for a bunker somewhere.
Those two articles. Both articles and not much more than speculation.
One article actually hints at it. However it doesn't change the facts. NZ is a Yellowstone waiting to happen. Bunker or not the island is toasts.
Also there's a reason NZ doesn't have skyscrapers an d concrete buildings. The amount of earthquakes would make building a bunker pretty dam near impossible.
Deeper you dig to hide from calamity above you. Closer you get to calamity below you.
What's your definition of a skyscraper? We have a load of buildings over 150m high, 40+ stories.
We have fancy earthquake tech for our tall buildings, like counterweights.
We're the same as Japan, we're both on the "ring of fire", basically little scabs of islands where continents rub against each other.
Japan has loads of tall buildings. And concrete ones too.
"the island is toasts" lol.
We do have plenty tall buildings in Auckland Welly chc and stuff. But not dotted all over the island. Likely because you'd need to drill into volcanic rock. Which is pretty expensive and difficult to do. I assume they place the taller building in places without volcanic rock.
Can you counterweight a bunker deep under earth ?
That was my point
I'm sure Japan and every other nation with super volcanoes had the same issues. Which is the point. NZ isn't off planet. It has just as much risk as anywhere else. If not more due to Taupo super volcano.
Which is overdue
https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20230804-taupo-the-super-volcano-under-new-zealands-largest-lake
I think expense & population not feasibility is why we don't have them dotted all over.
Surely an underground rock bunker would be exactly what they're looking for? Very "evil villain" aesthetic.
I'm dubious of claims of being overdue. How solid is the science backing those claims?
Well, the upside is if taupo goes, I should get a good view being only a few hours away 😬
Makes sense,
Well volcano lair sounds great. Until it blows.
Pretty good science. But who knows.
I think if it goes. North island goes. It's a super volcano. Whole of Taupo. So South island might survive but the ash cloud and radiation might do them in
They're also building quite a few in the heartland of the US. Although honestly I think they're one big scam by the people actually constructing them -- fully stocked luxury bunker for you, your family, friends, etc all on some billionaires' dime. If shit hits the fan and you don't let them in what're they gonna do -- sue you about it?
The billionaire doomsday prepper mindset is ridiculous when you think about it for 30 seconds. Physical control over the resources around would be all that mattered, not how much Monopoly money you had in the before times.
Not to mention that billionaires are fancy lads and lasses expecting to be waited on hand and foot. When their operations and Security people, people much more generally competent then them in every conceivable real world way, no longer has use for them or their paychecks, they will become their bunkers very, very quickly, especially because wealthy people don't know how to share and will treat them as staff and not people, let alone friends.
I can't imagine them finding security that meets their standards for employment that also lacks opportunism. You don't agree to protect Bezos from the hoards of Bezos' victims without being selfish to begin with.
That's why they want drones and robot security so badly.
And for what reason exactly? IPOs are either for owners to cash out or for the company to gather investment money. RPi doesn't really need money, they sell an extremely popular product. They literally can't produce enough product to quench the Pi thirst.
this is the heart of the matter.
business majors are taught if youre not growing your failing. if its not quarter over quarter kpi improvements youre failing.
businesses dont get to just be. they are constantly forced into always getting bigger or more profitable apparently no matter what.
any solid little company ends up getting bought and injected into the verticle.... because humans are weak, and almost all of us have a price.
Things looked bad when they hired that cop and doubled down on his defensive BS. Now it’s arduino and esp32s for me
Orange pi and banana pi and other knock offs is good too... Yet, till they follow that path too
pine64
Aaron Swartz is probably spinning in his grave right now
Quick, bring the generator to harvest the green energy!
Raspberry pi's business sector (aka Raspberry Pi Trading) has never been non-profit. That's who is going for an ipo.
Raspberry pics community sector (aka the Raspberry Pi Foundation) is the non-profit, and will remain as such.
Edit: Here's my source.
Going public will fuck them up. Every corporate move will be tied to the stock. It will inevitably destroy them.
Which, at this point, I’m here for. Although I do miss the days when they were a force for good. Or at least nerds. Ah well. Sayonara, you insulting bastards.
When companies say this, they'll usually do the exact opposite later down the line.
Enshittification be like
Exactly that's just bullshit to make people think everything is gonna be fine. It's the stock market. People with the most shares demand you make them more money. That's how it works. So everything will be turned upside down at some point.
Stating outright that you don't expect the obvious thing that always happens to happen... bro you're already giving shareholders a reason to say you're an incompetent manager and replace you with someone that will gut the company for stock growth.
When you hear this from any company, get out. Sell whatever you have in it immediately. Even if you take a loss, you'll take a bigger one waiting it out.
Nah.
"Don't be evil"
AAAAAAAAA I HATE ENSHITTIFICATION
WHY DO YOU ALWAYS NEED MORE FUCKING MONEY
FUCK
Its been coming for a while tho. They abandoned the affordable market long ago. Buy banana pis or other knockoffs, those have been better than the raspberry versions for a long time anyways...
How is the community on the alternatives? I always hear that raspberry Pis is easier to beginners due to the community. Alternatives are cheaper and faster but doesn't have a big community so not too user friendly.
I started with rockchip devices because I couldn't get a real rpi. I had no trouble getting help for anything I was trying to do.
Depends on what you get, grab an Ox64 to be thrown in the deep deep end, while anything that supports Armbian will be just fine.
How did they abandon the affordable market? You can get a 1GB pi 4 for $35 today, the same price as when it launched. You get get a zero 2 for $15 I think. Just because the pi 5 is more expensive doesn't mean they've abandoned the affordable market. They just widened the product line. Jeez.
Thank you! This is the kind of info I was looking for. Fuck IPOs.
They don't just want more money. He wants a huge payout for retirement. And fuxk everyone else.
You either die the hero, or live long enough to become the villain.
Didn't they start as a non-profit? But I guess, as someone I know used to say, there's one god everybody worships: the money god.
You can still donate to them if you enjoy feeling like a sucker.
XD
Damn. I’ll donate to Pi-Hole instead.
Because that's the non-profit organization, not the for-profit business.
A non-profit in the same way OpenAI is a non-profit.
"Buy me senpai!"
Non-profit to enjoy the perks that come with that until they're big enough to cash out.
Technically they still are, but the nonprofit owns and controls a for-profit corporation. I think they made that switcheroo a little over a decade ago, but someone else can fact check me the timing.
Just like Mozilla, OpenAI and wikimedia foundation. The future looks bright /s
oh I didn't know wikimedia was also a for profit in disguise. that sucks hard.
https://enterprise.wikimedia.com/
Is that an actual for-profit company controlled by the non-profit wikimedia foundation, or just a way for the foundation to make money to run its operations? My understanding is it's the latter, unlike Mozilla and now Raspberry Pi. See here:
A nonprofit doesn't have to rely exclusively on donations to fund its operarions.
it's not. They do have a commercial product they use to fund their operation, in addition to donations, but that doesn't make them a for-profit company.
Uh, no? It's the other way around?
According to who? You? Because the UK government says otherwise.
Raspberry Pi LTD (for-profit, founded 2012) is owned by the Raspberry Pi Foundation (non-profit, founded 2008).
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08207441/persons-with-significant-control
Fair enough, but raspberry pi (trading) Ltd is the one that's mostly in control.
I'm not sure what you're missing here, but they are OWNED by the non-profit, which means their actions align with their owners intent.
The Raspberry Pi Foundation lived long enough to see itself become the villain. Don't make excuses for them.
No.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
No.
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I just took some time to watch that video, and that seems to say "Yes" instead. Yes, they started as a non-profit, with a for-profit arm, and Yes, the for-profit arm is now trying to sell out in an IPO to (guess what) make more money. And while they are distinct entities, there's some of the same people on the board for both, who are likely going to profit.
Oh no, the tipping point for enshitification. First it was selling all the stock to corporate clients, now this.
Oh no, please no. They were supposed to be the best of us.
No King rules forever.
RIP Raspberry Pi. Whenever-2024
2012, I think... that's why I got my first Pi. I guess the enshitification will begin :(
ahh shit...here we go again
I don't think I've ever been excited about the IPO of a company I'm a customer of. This trend continues.
"Go forth, and procreate" has come to mean "amass, forever".
My first Pi got me into computing which led to my software career now. Won it from a YouTube giveaway and kept it a secret because I wasn't allowed to have a computer. Put retroPi on it and told my parents it was for gaming. Coded my first game in Python (from a tutorial). I once put it in a crayon box and used that as a portable handheld. Later. Made a janky arcade cabinet. Sad that my kids may need to use a different brand device. I have no love for public companies
You were allowed to game but not program???
They were scared of unmonitored access to the internet. And only up to T rated games were allowed, so for Halo I used to trade game cases with friends to hide what I owned. And since my parents were extremely Snoopy, I'd even switch my T rated games around so they thought I was just too lazy to match a game disk with it's case, and never get too suspicious.
Edit: Programming was allowed, just had to be on the shared computer in our living room where everyone could see what you were doing.
When I was leaving for college I bought a laptop and they made me keep it in the box until I left. It was honesty torture. I wanted to set it up and stuff but they insisted that our home computer would work fine...
Not to be too personal, but did that affect you a lot later in life, I mean the constant being on guard and fear of getting caught, to always have a lie ready to go and be nervous all the time? I find that if affects most people like that, but roughly one in five instead become super chill and really get their shit sorted. I'm not going anywhere specific with this, I just got curious from an academic and personal experience pov.
Yeah definitely some lasting consequence. I'm a pretty good liar, and extremely skilled at manipulating people to calm down. Sometimes I wish I stood my ground better and let there be friction between me and others. Instead I sort of morph into whatever they need, sometimes abandoning my core principals. It came in handy to save my siblings' asses a few times though. But literally just yesterday my wife was video calling her mom and showed her my brand new ear piercings (which I've wanted my whole life, but is a huge no no for men in Mormon circles, so it'll be a big deal when my side of the family finds out) - anyway, I wanna stretch/gauge them because I like the look of small tunnels, so my mother in law says, "they look so nice, but you won't gauge them, right?" And I'm like "no of course not" because I know it's probably a bit shocking to her that I pierced them at all. But I wish I instead said something non-commital like "not now, but I love the look of small gauges"
Overall, the biggest effect is probably the distance I feel towards my parents lol
If your curious, I'd describe myself as quite chill, but very reserved. I wouldn't even say I was constantly on guard... I was just a good liar. Got caught for very few things. I have a lot of siblings though (10), so I doubt I'd have had as much opportunity if I were an only child or something
There are worse uses! It's like I thought, you're one of the good ones.
edit:
I am sorry my man. That's some silly shit for anyone to get upset about. Grats on the pierces! I got fuck drunk at a festival when I was 16 and came home to mom and dad with pierced eyebrows. There were some very very frowny faces at home for some time, but I got away with it. I think they knew that ultimately, I don't give a shit what they think. I just happen to, but I don't have'ta. Good thing with many siblings. Then you can flow around them and disappear in the crowd so to speak. Peace.
Can't have a "computer" but can have an entertainment system, I guess.
It was more about moral concerns of the internet. Pretty common thing for Mormon parents to do. But yeah entertainment may have played a role, they weren't exactly what I'd call "active" parents.
Sure, that's the sort of thing I was alluding to. Not wanting to give a child a more capable system, while still giving them a distraction box.
I was basically handed a C64 straight outta the womb, and I think I've been so spoiled by having such free access to devices and technology, and be able to just tag along for the ride of the IT revolution, so I didn't bother to learn to code.
I just figured that down the line they'd come up with AI that could code for me, and while I was right, I really could have learned coding and be a total IT pimp by now. Now I'm just an IT chump, which is still nice, but still.
There's something to be said of deprivation. If all you've got to play with is sticks and stones, that's when your mind come up with the sickest creations.
My wife and I have wondered about this idea. If we were to have kids, we'd want them to be tech savy and inventive, but hopefully not get too addicted to the internet at a young age. There's something to be said about not buying them a computer, but letting them build one, I think. But it's an odd line to walk.
Definitely will say I was interested in what I couldn't have, but I do think there are healthier ways to fuel an interest. Hope that someday my kids will just want to tinker with my stuff
That is wild and awesome
I lost my respect for the raspberry pi foundation when they prioritize businesses over everybody else when there was a shortage.
I guess I better buy a new Pi before they quintuple in price for half the quality
If you don't need any of the Pi specific features. Then buy a sbc from another brand. You get way more for your money and more features
What are some examples of pi specific features which other brands don't support?
There's a huge amount variety between the alternative sbc providers, but I'm general:
All of this makes it difficult to utilize alternatives without conducting considerable research into many different ones.
Of all the things I expected to enshittify during 2024 I certainly didn't expect we'd start with the Pi.
Gross.
Anyone wanna start up a 501c3 to fill in the void?
I would if I could
uh oh.
rpis are gonna be a subscription service now.
Who's the competition at this point? We need a competitor now.
Is there a generic name for this kind of product? I figure I'll be interested in these at some point in the future, at which point I will have long since forgotten the list but will be able to google them up given the right terminology. Other than "raspberry pi alternative" which would inevitably center the results around how they relate to the rpi rather than the products themselves.
Single board computer or SBC for short.
Yes, indeed, there is!! It's called a Single-Board Computer (SBC).
Do those RPi-compatible things by now come with PCIe lanes? Back in the days I decided against each and every one of them on that basis alone and went with a NanoPC-T4, a fast SSD really makes a difference in those types of devices, SD cards just don't cut it. Can't achieve full speed at PCIe2.1x4 but hey I'm not going to complain about 2GiB/s when the board cost as much as the SSD.
And there were indeed some madlads who got dedicated GPUs running with the thing. The onboard GPU definitely isn't too bad (and the driver situation should be sane by now), and the VPU is a beast, decoding 4k@60Hz. (The RK3399 SoC was designed for set-top boxes so that stuff is right up its alley).
Not slots in the big comp sense but the tech is there and it's just started to get used for storage devices (e.g. NVMe M.2 ports and built in eMMC modules). Also PCIe-backed network ports (2.5Gb)
If you fancy taking a look then three good SBCs I'd support are:
Always worth checking they get good support (wiki, docs, forums) with recent OS builds. For example Orange Pi isn't great at providing builds for it's boards. Banana Pi is great for giving users the chance to ship their builds to others so the Wiki is crammed with newish builds. Rock SBCs have official OS builds
I am coming across a company called Libre Computer (Le Potato), or those comparable too?
Yep - add that to the list!
There is PINE64 if you're looking for a SBC.
Someone already said Pine64, but Odroid/HardKernel is another one.
Le Potato?
I would make a joke about PI-hole, but I won't.
It was nice knowing you
Ah, the good old Godfather gambit.
Shareholders: "Do you intend to price gauge your customers?"
CEO: "No!"
Shareholders: "So who's the new CEO?"
Respect for correct use of square brackets.
Well… RIP the Pi.
Narrator: he became President for Life
What would be the second best in terms of popularity, community and affordability?
Pine and BeagleBoard have some decent options, but they'll always be more expensive than rpi because of the economy of scale.
If you don't mind dogshit Rockchip Windows only shit-wear you'd do well with an OrangePi.
is there any comparable risc-v option?
STAR64? Don't know how they compare on benchmarks, but Pine64 has a few products that are risc-v.
Afaik the StarFive SOCs used in SBCs are a lot slower than current ARM offerings. Part of that might be because software support is worse, so maybe compilers and related tooling aren't yet optimized for them?
Hopefully development on these continues to improve though. The biggest nail in the coffin for Pi alternatives has been software support.
It's also a super new architecture and completely open source. Development will simply be slower. There's enough "mainstream" Pi competitors with risc-v offerings though that I'm confident that it will happen.
STAR64 is an ARM board. Pine64 is definitely eyeing RISC-V heavily but last I checked the only product that actually shipped with a RISC-V CPU is the pinecil featuring a SiFive E24, a beefy microcontroller. Ridiculously beefy for a soldering iron, but a microcontroller nonetheless.
Killing off ARM in that segment is still some ways off but RISC-V already has a firm foothold in the microcontroller space. Also Arduinos are absolutely overpriced which doesn't help them a bit.
What?
STAR64 is Risc-V.
They also have the Pinetab-V, which uses a 64-bit Quad-core 1.5 GHz SiFive U74 RISC-V chip.
The Pinecil was their first Risc-V product and the first commercial product with Risc-V made by anyone.
Quoth the first link you posted:
...as said, I haven't kept up to date. Don't shoot the messenger shoot Pine64's webdev.
As a dedicated and user-programmable device, probably yes but e.g. Seagate has been shipping HDDs with RISC-V controllers for ages. Apparently they want/need custom silicon and paying ARM for a CortexM0 license was just something they decided wasn't necessary, and actually annoying as you can't easily extend the ARM to include custom instructions, ARM is very protective of compatibility and everything.
There are a lot of cheap Arduino UNO and NANO knockoffs and the tech is so stupidly simple (and ancient) it doesn't take much to design your own (you can put together the most of the hw on a breadboard as long as you get an extrenal USB-Serial adaptor module, and those are also cheap as chips)
For the more modern and powerful stuff at that end of the computing power (i.e. the low, low, oh-so-low end) the simplest option is an ESP8266 or ESP32, which you can get as a module for about $3 - $5 or as a board for about 2x to 3x the price.
That said, this stuff are microcontrollers, not microprocessors, and they're nowhere in the same range as SBCs like the Pi, so I wouldn't advise using one of those if what you want is something that can run Linux and use displays with more resolution than 128x80.
I think the RPi has done it's job (cheap, relatively open hardware), and kickstarted the market.
Maybe they were struggling with "what do we do next?", and selling up to let the founders do new things is not the most terrible option.
Am getting a feeling they are going to implode soon so better ride the thunder and sell for as much money as possible. They were great for what they set to achieve, but then started to favor industry and big buyers instead of their original customers. These days fan base is slowly crumbling as they still struggle to keep shelves stocked and production going. Scalpers are not helping this situation either and people are deciding to go with competitors more and more.
More to the point, some of the more powerful options of RPi are not even that cheaper than Intel's Nuc or other mini computers.
I would hope IPO money means they can finally invest in the infrastructure to solve their supply problems.
Am not as optimistic.
Have we really got a replacement though? A £200 N100 mini PC is not in the same ballpark of disposability as a £40 board.
The thing is, they're not £40 any more (at least, the 5 isn't). A brief check here, puts the 4GB at £59, and the 8GB at £79.
Hopefully, they'll continue to make the previous models at a reasonable price.
I mean it was never that anyway, once you'd bought a power supply for it and a case.
I think they're at least powered by USB-C now, so people probably have that already, while the Pi3 wasn't quite within spec for regular micro USB so needed a custom power supply.
It's funny, I remember hitting issues with my pi3 running homeassistant with lots of dongles.
Eventually I worked out that the random reboots were down to power draw.
Power fickleness varies across every pi we’ve looked that. They need clean and steady or you can have some wild results.
They need proprietary 25w 5V5A chargers. It does not work with all USB C.
There are now plenty of companies making single-board computers. There are even ones based on Rockchip that run almost entirely on free software. The only things RPi had going for it were brand recognition and software support.
Can't wait for the subscription based Pi.
Always online IoT-Pi
Pi was just the first. There are so many tiny hobbiest computers out there now. Not gonna sweat it.
Pi was the third and some decimals. But your point stands.
So, who in the SBC space is considered #2? They need to be elevated... at least until they decide to do an IPO.
Probably Radxa or OrangePi, both using RockChip SoCs, iirc. The problem that I have is that they have a lack of mainline kernel support and seem to be requiring ancient kernels with proprietary patches.
I'm somewhat optimistic about Milk-V with their RISC-V SBCs but they have been supply constrained and also don't have great kernel support yet.
RIP.
Pi has gotten too expensive anyway. And the alternative sbcs have to be thoroughly researched before getting to make sure you can install a usable OS. Why is a typical bios/uefi so hard on arm?
I remember when they used to be like twenty bucks. That was, like, the whole point. I remember when people were talking about how it would revolutionize education because now every "third world" country could afford to buy computers for all the students. I suppose that didn't happen for more than one reason, but it was a nice dream while it lasted.
You can buy a Pi zero 2 W for $15. A pi 3 model A will cost you $25. The pi 3 model B+ and pi 4 model B are both $35. The prices haven't gone up. Your expectations have gone up and the price of similar x86 hardware has come down.
You can argue that the value of the pi lineup has diminished, and that's a valid argument, but these price complaints are just silly.
Probably looking at the scalper prices, specially considering that at least in the recent past, not sure about now, they were very difficult to obtain without paying some scalper price.
Complaining about scalper prices is fine as long as you lay the blame at the right foot. The ones to blame for those prices are the scalpers and the people who buy from them.
Is there something like a CM4 knockoff around? I mean compatible to the cm4. Context: I got a Turing pi 2 board lying around waiting to become my new k3s homelab cluster. They ship with adapters for the cm4, so I need somewhat a board that is pin and software compatible.
There's plenty, for example from Orange Pi and from Banana Pi
Thanks I will check that out. I never even thought of looking into rpi knock offs
A lot of them have better specs. Where you lose out is the ecosystem of supported devices and software, but the names above should be in a good spot for k3.
Pine64 has a Quartz64 based compute module that uses the same Pin layout as CM4. I have 2 of them but I was a bit too early on the project last time I tried it. There was no official distro or kernel support at the time but it seems like things have gotten better.
All good things must come to an end I suppose
And so it begins...
I wanted to start my comment with "As a long time fan of the company...", but then I remembered I still use PI 2b few times a week for what feels like a decade+ and that is all I ever got (besides buying that first PI Zero for some reason also forever ago).
Wait, that's illegal ...
You should apply for a job as head of their legal department..
Well, I guess we're gonna have to take control
I'm an investor and you should add a hardware video encoder
Enshitification of Rasoberrypi. Didn't see that coming.
RSVP RPi
No, this isn't a bad thing. It's a common misconception. Raspberry pi trading is going for an ipo. They've always been profit oriented. The raspberry pi foundation is still nonprofit, despite sharing some members.
Edit: Since people think I'm wrong, heres my source
You can still take issue with a for-profit private company going for an IPO. They are the part that does all of the hardware and software development and the impacts that public trading will have on them will be felt regardless of if the Foundation side remains unchanged.