LG to offer subscriptions for already purchased appliances and televisions, evolving into a provider for “Home as a Service”

L4sBot@lemmy.worldmod to Technology@lemmy.world – 473 points – LG to offer subscriptions for appliances and televisions
theregister.com

LG to offer subscriptions for already purchased appliances and televisions, evolving into a provider for “Home as a Service”::Subscription fatigue is a thing and regulators are circling, but Korean giant reckons you're ready to cough up after buying hardware

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There’s only one way I’d be OK with “subscribing” to use a LG fridge: I don’t pay anything upfront and I don’t need to pay for any repairs. If I don’t even get to own it, then I shouldn’t be responsible for fixing it when it dies and spoils all my food after a year or two, nor should I need to pay for a new fridge when I give up on it after those repairs inevitably fail again. Same with their TVs when the cheap capacitors die early.

If I subscribe to rent your product, the onus is on you to make it reliable enough that it lasts until the subscription turns a profit.

Since that won’t be their business model, I’m better off buying a half decent brand and then flushing $1000 down the toilet. Fuck LG appliances. (And fuck Samsung appliances while we’re here.)

Very much fuck Samsung. LG actually produces a decent product, even if this subscription bullshit exists. Samsung are just planned obsolescence trashboxes.

LG can go fuck off.

Love how these corporate executives these days can only use tricks to increase their profits rather than building better, more reliable products which gain more customers through hard work.

But more reliable products means existing customers will buy again less frequently.

There are nearly 8 billion people in the world and never in our history has there been as many people with disposable income. There are new customers out there. They don't have to simply fuck over their existing customers and continually fleece us.

But what about their poor shareholders that want to see maximum profits :(

And don't forget about executive bonuses too!

I bought a $3k+ LG OLED. I intentionally never agreed to any TOS so that it would act as a dumb TV. I wanted it on the network so that I could control it through Home Assistant and Apple HomeKit so I put it in my IoT VLAN. Within a day it was trying to port scan my network! It is now fully isolated with no outgoing connections allowed.

I have a 2017 era Samsung TV. I use it to connect to a media server that my router runs if I plug in a USB drive. This just worked so I assumed it was an open unauthenticated service.

Then I tried to use VLC running on my phone to connect and found myself presented with a login screen. When I investigated further I found the router's media server defaulted to using the the router's admin credentials.

So it looks like the TV had been programmed to try common default router creds before showing a login prompt to the user as a "convenience".

That's good UX, the real fuckup is using default admin credentials om your router.

I wasn't too concerned previously as my routers are only exposing their services to the local network.

I understand the view that it's a superior UX but I was taken aback that it was guessing passwords for other devices on the network.

The “smart” LGTV experience is utter trash. I was very pissed off to see adverts on my Home Screen when I put it online. It’s since been taken off and an Apple TV now provides the streaming services.

Samsung isn't any better. Bloated as hell too and I expect 0 privacy using it.

This thing with subscriptions has become insane. You can easily spend several hundred a month getting roped into all the subscriptions companies are pushing. It's the latest way to squeeze as much money as possible out of the consumer.

I've gone into subscription boycott at this point. I had too many and said screw that. I still have Amazon Prime where I think I get my money's worth. I shop there a lot and use their streaming so it's worth it to me. Subscriptions for appliances? No way in hell.

Yep. I built a fully automated piracy machine that I can stream straight to any device with no hassle. Fuck subscriptions.

Can you expand a bit on how you did that? Sounds enticing and I do have a virtual server and a RasPi to play around with.

Sonarr, radarr, qbittorrent and jellyfin are what I use.

@UntouchedWagons

@superkret

Should also look I to ombi, it can tie into your jellyfish server to see what you already have, and you can have it send requests to sonarr if you find something new.

(Also has user management so family / friends can see what you got or submit requests)

Definitely! Don't listen to the folks behind me - Jellyfin can only be viewed outside of your network if you build your own website and host it there, and that's way more trouble than you need to go through. Use Plex instead. You can just download the app and login and view your media from anywhere in the world without having to be a web designer/programmer.

Jellyfin is cool and all, but the functionality is severely lacking compared to Plex. Plex is getting pretty commercial, so I get it, but it just fucking works haha. Jellyfin will hopefully be there someday, but trust me, save yourself that headache. It sucks in it's current form. It's mostly just hardcore nerds that use Jellyfin, and if you're trying to share it with others, it's very complex. With Plex, I can just have my elderly mother or whoever download the Plex app on their phone, smart TV, game console, or anything else with internet and you can cast it just like Netflix.

I use unRAID as my OS, which is a Docker-based Linux kernel. I use Plex, Prowlarr/Radarr/Sonarr for indexing and organizing my library, sabNZBD and qBittorrent to download the files, and Overseerr as a search engine and request system for movies and TV. Basically I've got Overseerr reverse proxied and myself and all of the folks I share my Plex with can access it and request stuff from any web browser.

I'm actually setting plex up within the next couple of days! I had to make some hardware changes first (mostly adding more storage)

Are there any good guides on how do to it the way you did so it can torrent the stuff you don't have on demand? I assume that once you've torrented it, it keeps that torrented media downloaded for later use as well? Or does it automatically delete after a certain amount of inactivity on that file? Did you set it up with a VPN, and if so how did you get that working in Qbittorrent in docker?

Yep, this guide is a little outdated at this point, but still very solid. It does keep the file - Sonarr/Radarr actually have media management and you can clean up your media folder very nicely with them. There's containers on the unRAID app store for both that already have your VPN integrated - you basically just plug in your VPN info. Highly recommend Private Internet Access for your provider - they're the easiest one to configure and they're one of the most secure. I'm at the office right now, but there's two creators you want to look out for - hotio and linuxserver. Both of those guys make damn solid containers with this in mind.

Thanks! I'll read up on that tomorrow, though I'll have to do something slightly different as I used proxmox as my base OS rather than unRaid. But that looks like a good stepping off point!

No problem! I'm not super familiar with ProxMox myself, but if it's doable, I'm sure someone on the internet has written something up on it!

It's one of those things that was a shock at how prevalent it is on the Apple app store after so much talk of how much better the apps are compared to Android. There's not even proper filter options to filter out apps that are subscription only. It was ridiculous how you could buy an app then get pop ups to get the subscription plan. It's why I wish a foss app store like F-droid becomes available once slide loading becomes possible so I can avoid the appstore as much as possible when I need a basic app. Like a calculator.

Yeah phone apps are horrible, don't know about iOS since I've always used Android, but they're mostly bad. The apps geared to a company service are usually fine, but the rest are just ad support systems.

I actually don't use third party phone apps that much, but the times I have it's like an assault. You get a tenth of the screen for the actual function of the app with the rest of the screen gyrating ads. It's especially a problem for me because I'm old and can't see the screen that well. I don't know how people put up with it. I can't.

Good thing about at least paid apps on play store is that they usually don't have subscriptions, and there are tags warning if it Contains Ads before you even install the app.

I don't think Apple appstore even has ad warnings. Only in-app purchase warning. So using appstore was when I found out talking video ads exist.

Yeah, it's bad enough that an LG TV makes you agree to have all of your data sent to them, but now they want you to pay for the privilege as well. Screw that!

I mean, i think all smart TVs do that now. Don't know what I'll do when my dumb one breaks.

Just don't connect smart TVs to the internet. Get something cheap like a raspberry pi + wireless mouse/keyboard or an android TV box for the same functionality. (More functionality, actually)

Ugh I wish raspberry pis were still… anywhere… for reasonable prices.

Haha I accidentally bought an extra right before prices skyrocketed, and am just saving that bitch for when the right project comes along. Came close to returning it, but am damn glad I didn't.

Man I had no clue they went up in price. I have a couple laying around here somewhere.

But you know, if you look on newegg.com, you can just about buy a full cheap motherboard with CPU for the same price and get more ports and probably more speed as long as you can handle the size.

Open your fridge once per day before the door locks with our SmartHome Basic tier. You can enjoy up to five door openings per day with SmartHome Premium, or choose SmartHome Ultimate for unlimited door openings, ability to adjust the temperature AND the light turning on automatically when you open the door! Act now to get a 10% discount for the first three months!

Screw you for putting that nonsense out into the world

Sigh. Our latest TV is an LG precisely because LG did not have ads in its OS whereas its main competitors do. Once they introduce ads, they'll have completely lost me as a potential repeat customer.

Guess our next TV will just be a large monitor, with no "smart" shenanigans whatsoever.

I'd rather have a dedicated box and a dumb tv, the hardware rarely keeps pace than a box

Good luck. They don't really make non-smart TVs anymore.

But I just picked up a Sony and never connect it to the internet after updating the firmware. I have an Apple TV box for an interface. I don't need a non-upgradable streaming stick built into my TV thanks

Exactly, I'll be using a big monitor with an HTPC. These "smart" TVs are just horrific anymore with their ads and subs and everything else that's a money grab. I don't need any of that garbage.

Right now I have an older TV without a smart OS. It's hooked up to an AV amp and a couple TV boxes. I dread replacing my TV because of the crappy operating systems they all have now. I'll have to find a big monitor if I can even find something like that for a decent price, don't know, haven't looked.

Plug a Raspberry Pi with LibreElec into the HDMI port of any smart tv and never use the OS or connect it to wifi. I can't fathom why people use the ad-ridden trash these TVs ship with.

I just don't connect my TV to the internet. Once a year I update the firmware with a USB, it's perfect.

While I agree that smart TVs are garbage, they're cheap AF because of the ads and other garbage they include. Look for a dumb TV, if you can even find one nowadays, and it's double the price. They're subsidizing the cost of the TV with the ads and tracking.

I also have an older TV from 2008, and if it dies, I'm probably not going to replace it. I don't use it enough that it's worth replacing.

If you want a large monitor, those are quite expensive, especially at the sizes of today's TVs. You can get a cheapish 40" monitor, but above that, you're looking at a 50% premium for a monitor over a TV.

Why even use the LG OS? I always used a fire tv stick and now nvidia shield (I don't see ads as far as I know), which is much better supported as an Android OS instead if an LG OS.

All these "sticks" don't have good support for domestic streaming services in my country. The native TV OS does.

My 6ish year old Sony was purchased with the built in OS as my least important quality, as I knew that someday it’d be unsupportable as far as new apps, but that a third party box would provide a good experience with a single HDMI. I’m actually still using the built in OS but I can tell that it’s getting slower and buggier, so I’m thinking of getting a Roku soon.

I tried that: they are difficult to impossible to find. I thought I was generous to be willing to pay double, but I couldn’t find a monitor with my tv’s specs for any price

I ended up getting a Vizio and to my surprise I actually use the spyOS over my streaming devices most of the time. It’s actually pretty good —- except for the ads. Even then, it mostly needs an extra click or two to open the app I want, rather than the sponsored app

Home as a Service

This has triggered a Fight AND Flight response in my brain. I want to smash everything with a mallet then run to the mountains.
I hate "as a Service" so much!

Enshittification is not just for social media platforms.

Mark my words we are soon going to have to subscribe to our toilets. You get one flush a day for free. Save money by subscribing to the flush-lite which gives you 2 additional flushes. If you choose not to subscribe, you will be charged 2.99 for each flush beyond the first one.

I literally have paid a toilet subscription for the past 10 years.

Its the fee on my water bill called waste removal.

Power is a subscription model, you want to have power at your house you pay a quarterly connection fee on top of what you use.

Yeah, in my facetiousness, I forgot that I actually do something remarkably similar in terms of a sewer bill.

If it's yellow let it mellow. Is it's brown flush it down. Possibly for $2.99. And unlock your toilet paper dispenser for just $1.99 per every 10 one-ply squares.

Yup. The privatization of everything ends up with every moment of our existence monitored and metered and billed.

There will also be a free tier, where you have to watch adds for a whole toilet visit in order to flush.

After seeing this post and the article, I just blocked my LG C1 from WAN at my router. LAN still available for automation purposes, but fuck letting that thing out to the internet now. Funny enough, it turns on faster, and no more notification splash at the bottom. Nice.

For just a low low price of $15.99/month you can use the freezer functionality to keep things really cold! Or, you can use our free ad tier where the freezer only unlocks after you watch a 60 second ad.

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Commenting from an LG phone (last one produced) next to an LG tv. Will never purchase another one of their products in my life, even before this article.

I have a dumb LG TV and idek how I'll replace it when it's finished. Do they even sell dumb TV's anymore?

You have to buy a "smart tv", never connect it to wifi and plug a proper media device to it.

Are there really only smart tvs nowM

Search for the ones that are meant for retail use. I don't recall what they're called, but that class of tvs will get you a decent dumb tv.

Digital signage? They're basically monitors but often have a basic onboard OS like Android for running DS apps, but like you said they're otherwise a dumb TV without the aerial port.

I have a dumb tv now, I plan to replace it with a computer monitor. Sound and video go through my reciever already, which sends the video to my tv. Chromecast and a rpi to do any smart things.

in 2022 it revealed a scheme called “Evolving Appliances For You" that promised software upgrades to home appliances. The company offered the example of a family that moves to a different home, and different climate, and upgrades its clothes drier with routines suited to local conditions.

This is fucking hilarious. Nobody, and I really do mean nobody, actually wants a dryer that you need to pay a subscription fee for just in case one day you move house so it can try to reconfigure itself.

This and this article might be a little more concise.

It sounds like more ads for smart tvs, and a subscription service for extra features for smart appliances - like a chatbot for your fridge or dishwasher or something.

It doesn't necessarily sound evil to me it just sounds completely retarded. I'm all about tech making life easier but it's genuinely hard to imagine why I would want a smart dishwasher. I want a dumbass dishwasher who's actions are solely determined by the 3 buttons on it.

It will be interesting to see how the market responds to this. It's hard to imagine that really anyone will be seduced by the idea of a "smart" home with these sorts of intangible benefits.

Well, as someone who moves between Africa and Finland with my tumble dryer twice a month this will be a godsend.

Wait until they program the devices to lock down until you pay a fee to turn them on.

It's a solution in search of a problem. May as well start selling home appliance NFTs while they're at it.

This is fucking dystopian...

This is fucking ridiculous! Do you have to buy a subscription in order to use the appliance? If so, it seems to me that this would constitute unfair trade practice. Some shit just does not belong on the internet. Can you imagine the serious and life threatening situation that could develop, if say, somebody hacked into a system and turned gas stoves on and a fire developed? No, it's time to draw the line at IoT!

You’ll own nothing and be happy.

The people who downvoted you are either unaware of where things are going, or they have no ability to comprehend humor.

So I can’t do the wash without buying a subscription for it to play Sirius XM? Like wtf is going on. This corpo greed shit has to stop. I hope every single union walks out of the job with these actors and writers. We need to bring power back to the worker a bit.

I don't understand the mindset of people who tolerate ads. No way I'm ever hooking up a smart tv to my network!

Most smart products are security nightmares, too. Smart TVs, refridgerators, thermometers, all of them have OS's that arent regularly updated, dont give the user any way to peek into the system, (you get a virus on your computer, and you generally know pretty quick) and usually lack the security features that your phone or PC may have. They're easy points for your network to be compromised.

The Internet of Things is more like the Internet of Shit.

If you're not paying for it you are the product...wait if you are paying for it you are the product.

I used to like LG products they were often really good quality and lasted a long time.

That's pretty much over now, not touching new LG products anymore. That's for sure!

I had an LG CRT and it was as old as me. Never died. It's a real shame the planet is suffering because of greedy business practices. They put climate change on the consumer but more needs to be done to big corporations to punish this kind of behaviour.

This is why I like dumb products. The smarter they are the more they tac on this kind of crap to them.

Their gadgets built their fame because they just worked and were built like a tank. My grandparents had their stuff (from Goldstar era) and they still keep chugging.

None of this "as a service" bs will please the lifetime customers.

this change will solidify that I will never buy an LG product if they all have that shit

Great. Gonna have to get rid of my LG oled now huh?

Just castrate its access to internet. Initially you can full block it, in time people will figure out which domains need to be blocked. If they can't upgrade your firmware, they can't install these new features.

I suspect they'll include cellular radios in the near future so the appliance does not depend on the "consumer" to provide data access.

That is unlikely to happen as it would require contract with local providers, expensive GSM hardware, etc. Luckily at the moment they still don't know just how much they can push, so they are testing the waters by dipping fingers in it.

With a cellular data subscription that we will then be required to pay a monthly fee for, to make sure the TV continues to work. You didn't think they'd be giving this away for free, right?

We'll see. I think they will use the route of least resistance. But subscription based services are here to stay.

I may be lucky. I am an expat, and I bought mine in China. Now I am in Malaysia. So I may not have this issue. But your points are likely true.

Just vote with your wallets people. There are others that don't do this and nothing will turn them around after huge drop in sales. Remember when HP wanted to prevent people from recycling their toner. They had to reverse that decision. Or when Canon decided that your printer must be always online and then they had to teach people how to break their own printers. Lessons learned.

This little tidbit is left out:

In order to use LG's smart appliance features you must agree to allow the company to track your precise location 100% of the time via phone app.

I have 2 wifi enabled LG appliances, a refrigerator and a washer. A couple of the smart features are useful such as the end of cycle notification on the washer and a high temperature / door open warning on the fridge. Unfortunately those features don't work very well and there can be very long delays between an event (such as an end of cycle) and the app notification.

So not only is LG's implementation poorly done and not very functional, customers are expected to give up any semblance of privacy to even use them.

Fuck that. I disconnected my appliances from wifi and deleted the app.

Paying a monthly charge for the extremely limited smart features on appliances is nuts, even if you didn't have to allow LG to constantly track your whereabouts. I hope the general public is smart enough to make LG's subscription service a complete failure.

My fridge drops its wifi setting constantly. Luckily it's the dumbest thing ever so I don't miss it. I only set it up because I was curious wtf a fridge would need to be connect to wifi for

Turns out it loves watching The Bear. Gues it makes sense

Might as well just rent a house. lol

Well, point of fact, if you have a mortgage, your landlord becomes the bank anyway. You only get to own it after 30 years, and that is, if you haven't needed to take out a home equity loan or other line of credit against your home to make necessary repairs.

Well yes and no, in the sense that a landlord can evict you for reasons other than failure to pay rent (YMMV depending on your country) and in some places where housing is hard to come by, a financed house ensures that you won't be evicted because the landlord wants to make yet another Airbnb out of your apartment.

Even if you have a mortgage, better hope you don't have an HOA that can put a lien on your house for not paying the monthly fees

It's true, if you buy a place with an HOA in the US (not living there so the thought didn't even reach my mind) you have to check their rules as part of your due diligence. I know it's tempting because the place looks oh so good/the price is low/there are 20 other people waiting but you can dodge some serious bullets of you don't overlook it.

In my neck of the woods you have to be careful about upcoming renovations that were voted by the "HOA" before you buy but have yet to be funded by the homeowners. You can be forced to chip in to pay for a big reno (exterior walls, HVAC...) even though you didn't vote for it. But I guess it can also happen in the States.

You're paying a mortgage regardless. If you "own" you can sell the house and get a huge chunk of your money back.

The only caveats to owning is if your not planning on living there long term or you overpay when you purchase it.

it's a shame most people just don't care, this has been slowly consuming and devouring every single service online and recently offline for the past decade

Is LG the same brand as the printer that stopped working without a subscription? I saw it recently on Lemmy, can't remember if it was LG or maybe HP or something...

That post was HP. LG is a korean company which makes lots of home appliances like washing machines, fridges, vac cleaner, etc.

Fucking Chaebols. They’re like a Corporate Dynasty, essentially.

My LG TV from 2017 that's not getting any updates anymore feels great this time of the year :D

I dread replacing my 15 year old TV, i need dem SCARTS

Oh, SCART. We hardly knew ye. Truly France's greatest gift to the world.

*Hugs my old ass Samsung 40" TV

LG PowerPoint:

Problem: People buy our TVs

Real problem: People pay only once for our TVs

Solution: Make them pay money each month for their already purchased TVs

Psychopaths