Would you consider making a sandwich to be "cooking?"

πŸ‡° πŸŒ€ πŸ‡± πŸ‡¦ πŸ‡³ πŸ‡¦ πŸ‡° ℹ️@yiffit.net to No Stupid Questions@lemmy.world – 107 points –

Personally, I don't* but I was curious what others think.

^*^some sandwiches excluded like a Cubano or chicken parm; those do require cooking.

122

I don't think it's cooking unless you are applying heat to cause a chemical reaction. So, making a grilled cheese sandwich counts as cooking, but a BP&J does not.

Making ceviche or sushi officially not cooking confirmed - how dare those posers call themselves sushi chefs.

gotta cook the rice for sushi. checkmate.

Sashimi: do I not even exist, bro?

Slap a whole fish down in front of you.

You: "Not cooked"

slice fillet of fish off and present it.

You: "Not cooked"

slice fillet into small bite size pieces and squirt some neon green horseradish next to it

You: "Dis is cooked!"

?

Yea, it looks fucking delicious. Thank you for cooking me a fine meal!

I think of a chef as a "preparer of food" not necessarily "food cooker"

So sushi chef is still accurate to their opinion, disclaimer I agree with them so I could always be rationalizing it.

chef is french for chief. they are the head of the kitchen.

Some of the constituent ingredients have to be cooked, but ceviches and sushi rolls aren't cooked any more than salads or burritos. They're assembled or prepared.

You're ignoring the chemical process in ceviche.

Yea, ceviche is cooked with acid rather than heat - you can also cook some foods with salt!

Ceviche is said to be "cooked" with acid, even if that's not the most accurate term. And most forms of sushi are made with cooked rice, at minimum, and not uncommonly with other cooked ingredients. So those things kind of muddy the waters for your point. But a clearer example may be something like beef tartare, a garden salad with a vinegarette, or sashimi. Those things are "prepared", not cooked, because no cooking is involved in their making. Cooking is specifically the preparation of food utilizing heat. Chefs prepare plenty of dishes that do not involve the act of cooking.

The acid from the lime is doing the cooking in ceviche.

I agree - and it specifically isn't doing so through an application of heat.

Just because it's preparing food and not cooking doesn't mean that it is lesser.

No, I would call that "preparing". Cooking is the act of using heat to prepare food for consumption.

Which means that it might be, depending on the sandwich. For example, you cook a panini or grilled cheese.

How much needs to be heated? If I toast the bread but not the other ingredients, then clearly I did cook by that definition, yeah?

No, it's food preparation but nothing is being cooked.

Depends on your start point. You can bake your own bread, cook/combine your own condiments, and roast/cure your own meats.

You can grow your wheat, and raise pigs, but to really make it from scratch, first you need to create the universe.

Cooking (in the English I was taught) involves the application of heat - frying, baking, roasting, boiling etc are the names for specific ways to do this. A sandwich would be made or prepared.

Some go as far as saying cooking requires a chemical change, else youre just heating

Yeah - an application of heat to create a chemical change. You’re correct there. My answer was incomplete.

Just for the heck of it, if you heat protein enough to denature it but have no Maillard reaction (let's say you've just made a hard boiled egg), would that not be considered cooking by that definition?

My understanding is that denaturing is a physical structure change, not a chemical one (and according to Wikipedia can be reversible in some cases), not a biochemist or food scientist though so totally accepting that my understanding is incorrect/incomplete.

No one ever says "I'm cooking a sandwich"

True, but, turn that into 'I'm cooking up a sandwich', and now the phrase potentially expands its domain to basically mean any kind of food preparation.

The addition if 'up' makes it less literal, more jovial and less bounded.

True, but, turn that into β€˜I’m cooking up a sandwich’, and now the phrase potentially expands its domain to basically mean any kind of food preparation.

The phrase expands into any preparation or invention, even ones that clearly do not have anything to do with cooking. e.g. "I'm cooking up a plan to deal with this."

IMO, assembling a sandwich from ready-to-eat ingredients without using a stove, oven, microwave, etc. is meal prep, not cooking. If you roast, saute, toast, smoke, or even zap any part of it, now you're cookin'. (Though zapping might just be reheating something that was cooked previously. Ugh, this is more complicated than it should be. English can be frustrating.)

The word cooking, to me, means using heat with a stove. Baking is for the oven. Grilling, is outside on a grill. But a sandwich is only ever "made" in my house. "Will you make me a sandwich?", "I'm making a sandwich"

Good question though. Never thought about it.

Grills can be inside. You just need the parallel bars with heat underneath to call it grilling.

I see cooking as a more general term. Both baking and grilling are forms of cooking. You can also roast and grill things in the oven. Cooking on a stove also has different specific terms, boiling, simmering, frying etc.

So would you cook a salad?

i think combining watery things and oily things counts as emulsion, which is a cooking sort of word. i thought "cooking" was a word for "changing the chemical properties of" or just "heating up because it's better hot"

I mean more general than heat with a stove. Not as is every form of meal preparation.

But yes. I would cook a salad - stir frys are basically just cooked salads with some rice or noodles. I would not consider every salad to be cooked though.

The specific language you speak has significant impact here. For some, "to make food* is used to refer to cooking. Where as in English it's not so clear. I prefer the use in terms of survival. IMO, if you can make any food enough to survive you can cook, because in English there is not a better colloquial verb. Though i wouldn't call you 'a cook' or 'a chef' if you can't apply heat to produce edible food from raw.

This might be different depending on the speaker, but at least for me Portuguese and Italian are even stricter on interpreting cozinhar/cozer and cucinare/cuocere as involving heat. Like, if I were to say for example ⟨*cozinhei um sanduíche⟩ (literally "I *cooked a sandwich"), I'm almost sure that people would interpret it as "I picked an already prepared sandwich and used it as ingredient for something else"

I mean that's true of the english term as well. But if someone says they can't cook i default to thinking they order out every meal or use a microwave fot cup of ramen. Making sandwiches, salads, and other cold foods is still a skill but there's no word such as cold-cutlerist and i refuse andwich artist.

Perhaps I'm overthinking it, but the English verb seems to have different meanings when it's used transitive and intransitively. For example, let's say that you ask someone to prepare you a salad, and the person answers:

  • "I can't cook." (sounds OK?)
  • "I can't cook a salad." (sounds weird)

I think that's grammatically true but i tend to think of it more in terms of colloquialisms or slang. I imagine intransitive use of the verb developed out of convenience for lack of a lazy alternative. "I can't prepare food" would either suggest you require assistance to eat, you can't legally work at a restaurant, or your aristocratic status is beyond that of a mere peasant who has seen a kitchen before.

Depends on the sandwich. If you're constructing a sandwich without using heat, I would consider that "making lunch" or "making dinner" but not explicitly cooking. I'm not sure that the difference matters in any significant situations, though. Why are you asking?

Nope. In English, if it doesn't involve the application of heat, you ain't cooking, you're preparing, making, or other terminology.

So toasting a sammich is cooking, but making the sammich isn't?

Pretty much, yeah. Same as grilling a burger and putting it on bread is cooking despite the bread being pre-made.

Afaik, cooking isn't limited to applying heat to raw foods.

Might be worth saying that I don't remember which dictionary the definition came from, and that dictionaries only record language, they don't prevent changes over time. Which means that usage could have changed enough since the last time I looked at any, and now have a different usage added

It's only cooking if it's done in the Cooke region governed by the Earle of Sandwich. Anything else is sparkling food preparation.

I guess that it depends on context? Typically I wouldn't call it cooking, as it doesn't involve applying heat to the food. But if I were to teach a kid how to cook, then I'd consider it cooking - as teaching them how to prepare a sandwich would be a good start.

So... we started with waffles and baking. They get to mix the batter and dump things into the bowl, and such.

Though the first thing my nephew made without help was mac and cheese- everything was from scratch, the sauce and the pasta. It might have taken him... uh... hours... to roll out the pasta by hand, but eh, you are allowed to have fun with your food.

If anyone hasn't, making pasta is not that difficult. I wouldn't say there isn't a place for dry pasta; and it's certainly more convenient, but if you're interested don't feel intimidated. (though, if you don't have a pasta machine, I'd suggest something like Orecchiette; but there's plenty of other shapes that don't require a machine or rolling out in the video,)

Mixing batter and preparing pasta seem like great starts, too. The general idea is to not let the kid handle anything with heat or sharp knives until they're old enough to "respect" the danger behind those things.

My own initiation was whisking mayo (where I live it's traditional to prepare a potato-mayo salad on Sundays). Then when my nephew was young I kind of tried to teach him how to prepare some onigiri (he already liked them better than sandwich), with already cooked rice and fillings, but he was a bit too lazy to do it, and a bit too eager to eat the ingredients.

Absolutely, on the safety. Another thing to look out for is mixers and other machines.

though, they're big and scarry enough sometimes they don't need a warning... but eh.... yeah. Those things will take a finger without even noticing.

I guess it would depend on the type of sandwich

. Peanut butter and jelly? No

A simple cheese sandwich? No

Grilled cheese sandwich? Yes

What about a grilled cheese and peanut butter and jelly and pickles sandwich with a side of sourkrout?

peanut butter and jelly and pickles sandwich

this sounds like something my SiL would eat when she was pregnant.

also... what kind of pickles? I bet i could get my nephew and nieces to eat it, and they'd probably love it.

If someone told me they "cooked themselves a BLT", I'd assume they meant they'd baked the bread, fried the bacon, and emulsified the mayonnaise themselves and the slicing and assembly were just the final parts of the process.

"Cooking" to me, requires the combination of ingredients AND heating them to create a new thing. Making a grilled cheese is basic, but cooking. Slapping meat, cheese and veg on bread is not cooking.

Is combining microwave rice and a frozen meal portion cooking then? Or to they have to be heated together?

You can cook in a microwave. But those frozen meals and rice packs are already cooked, you're just reheating/reconstituting them. I wouldn't conconsider that cooking, no.

Put butter on the outside, throw it in a hot pan and grill it. Even go further and get a sandwich press. NOW YOU'RE COOKIN!

Cooking is a process of transformation, both physical and symbolic. Combining ingredients intentionally to create something flavorful and nutritious, making a sandwich certainly falls under the act of cooking.

The question is inadequatly phrased. You must describe what kind of sandwich we are speaking of. Unless op is speaking about cold sandwiches exclusively, many sandwiches require cooking.

Croque Monsieur

Grilled Cheese

Cubano

Monte Cristo

Panini

These are just a few that I came up with off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many more.

Preparing food and cooking food are two different things.

I wouldn't even say making a grilled cheese would be cooking. I don't think heat has anything to do with it. I mean, am I cooking if I'm microwaving a frozen dinner? Are the "cooks" at an Applebee's cooking if all they do is warm up bags of premade food and microwave steaks?

I would say cooking requires you to prepare ingredients, combine them, and cook them.

I had thought of editing the title to include microwaving food, too. I would say "I cooked it in the microwave" but it at the same time absolutely does not have the same weight as "I cooked this" implying I did all the work and not just re-heating someone else's.

I mean, you could cook something in the microwave. Like microwaving a potato in order to make mashed potatoes, or heating other things to create a dish. Like I used to microwave spaghetti squash and then shred up the strands to make spaghetti.

But like, if I reheated some leftovers, or put a frozen dinner in the microwave, Id probably say "I microwaved this" or "I heated this".

I like this definition the best. If someone is making a super complex sandwich with many ingredients and passion, then I'm fine to call that cooking. Same with a cold soup, a cous-cous salad or a fancy appetizer. Many dishes in top notch cuisine are served cold. In molecular kitchen, there's even stuff served below freezing. Still all cooking to me.

If someone just warms up a can of Ravioli, microwaves convinience food, etc. I'd consider that rather food prep. If using the microwave is just one step of multiple in a recipe, than that's fine again.

For me cooking requires a minimum level of effort rather than a minimum level of heat.

hm, no, because it is baking instead.

Care to elaborate? Other than toasting it, how do you consider it baking?

the bread is the lynch pin of the sandwich. You can do whatever you want with the rest of the ingredients, but the bread must (usually) be baked.

Fair enough. Do you still consider it baking if your bread comes in a bag from the grocery store?

Cooking is simply the preparing of food.

It doesn’t necessarily require the application of heat.

If some one is being proud of a sandwich- let them be proud. We all start somewhere.

edit: to all the people downvoting me: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/cooking

  1. the act of a person or thing that cooks.
  2. the art or practice of preparing food; cookery.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cooking

1A) the act of preparing food for eating, especially by heating 1B) a manner of preparing food

To say that "cooking" requires heat is inaccurate. It's the usual qualification, but is not necessary in a general sense.

and more to the point: If some one is proud of their sandwich, why would you take that from them? dick move. Even Gordon Fucking Ramsey had to start somewhere.

Cooking, also known as cookery or professionally as the culinary arts, is the art, science and craft of using heat to make food more palatable, digestible, nutritious, or safe.

Wikipedia says so. Can someone make a really good sandwich without cooking? Sure. I wouldn't even pull an "um ackshuly" on them. But you're putting words in OP's mouth now.

But you’re putting words in OP’s mouth now.

Am I?

Where did I say the OP said anything at all?

Also, I wonder whose more definitive on the meaning of words? The long-standing, generally recognized as the definitive dictionary for US-English... or... wikipedia?

Entirely context dependent.

Who's cooking tonight? Me, and if it's sandwiches, salad, etc - still counts.

No cooking in the room. Combining sliced bread with sliced cheese out of the bag - doesn't count.

It you cook the sandwich, the bread, or any part of the filling, yes. If you toast your bread and warm up your ingredients in a pan, why not ? But if you are just cuting and filling. You're assembling a sandwich, not cooking it.

I would say you're making food, not cooking, but like, who cares? If someone says I'm cooking lunch and then comes out with sandwiches I wouldn't really notice it doesn't make sense, but if you say I'm cooking a sandwich, that pokes my brain in the incorrect language department

Ehhh food preparation more than cooking. You're just assembling things. I'm a pro at a good sandwich if I do say so myself. Sometimes I have to cook to make that happen. But a basic sandwich...nah, no cooking involved.

Does it take unreasonably long compared to the time to consume the food?

Yes.

Does it use ingredients?

Yes.

Is it worth the effort?

No.

Sounds like cooking to me.

Is it worth the effort?

No.

Sounds like you suck at cooking, my guy.

Just because you don’t enjoy it doesn’t mean you suck at it

They did not say "do I enjoy it?" they said "Is it worth the effort?" and if having food made exactly to your taste is not worth the effort you either have no standards and would be fine with microwave slop and fast food, or you lack the skill to make something that satisfies you.

Either way, skill issue.

The one exception would be if you're disabled or something, and I don't mean "I have adhd" disabled, I mean "I physically can't stand at the stove for 20-30 minites" disabled.

Eh... why are we trying to gatekeep cooking?

It's not gatekeeping, it's a discussion of semantics. The official definition of cooking is the preparation of food by using heat.

Talking about definitions and how far they go is not gatekeeping. There's no gate here, just a bunch of people with sticks drawing lines on sand and seeing where the others drew their lines.

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