The dubs vs subs argument made more sense when dubs were generally low effort trash. Now dubbing is done very well. As someone who can read subtitles fine, a dub is always more a relaxing/ less cerebral experience where I can focus that much more on the content.
Except singing of course. Don’t dub songs.
To each his own. Some prefer the original audio simply because it is foreign, making it easier to mentally dive into a fantasy world.
Others get taken out of the immersion by having to read subs and not focusing on the screen all the time.
Isn't it great that nowadays we have a real choice, so everyone can enjoy media how they want?
I really don't want to make a thing of it, but it's nice to hear the original voice acting. I kinda want to hear that Japanese voice actress who's probably famous for all sorts of roles, it seems unfair to consume everyone else's work but not hers, so I want to pick up the OG vibe from the dubbed anime if I can. I bet undubbed Cowboy Bebop is good stuff, I should find that and watch it.
It can get crazy though. US DBZ gives fairly masculine voices to all male characters who are not obviously children, even if most of them sound like young men and aren't all that bassy, save, of course, Piccolo and Vegeta. Vegeta always sounds like he's trying to put some bass in his voice, but he's all nasal. Still. Man voices. Even Krillen gets a grown man voice, even if he's reedy and is supposed to sound like a pipsqueak.
I watched 10 minutes of the show once that was in notEnglish and absolutely the fuck not. Everyone had extremely high-pitched little boy voices which was fucking weird, and I kept waiting for them to drop the gag, but no, that's their voices for that version. Goku sounding like a chipmunk squeaker yelling in some other language. No thanks. To this day I have no idea what language that was.
So sometimes you just want subbed anime. Sometimes you want to watch Tenchi Muyo with a Ryoko who sounds right. My strong opinion is that I shouldn't have one when it comes to subs v dubs, that's internet clown stuff for people who think arguing is a fun sport.
Problem with dubs is japanese names pronunciation in english, no matter how good the VAs are.
Oof, so I just started learning Japanese this year and this bothers me ALOT. I don't get why they do this. It really is dumb.
They should all go the 4Kids Yu Gi Oh route and give the characters American names like Joey and Tristan
It’s done well (usually), but it’s still not the original. Something will inevitably be lost in the adaptation anyway, and if you know even a slight bit of Japanese (or whatever the original language is), subs are the better choice for a first view, imo.
Then, if the series/movie was good and I feel like watching it again, I’ll go with the dub when available. Rarely, if ever, I found a Dub that was better than an original version, but a lot have been at the same level so it’s definitely worth it.
Fate/Zero and Psycho-Pass are two good examples where the dub is superior to the subtitled version. They mess up some of the meanings in the subtitled versions, like in Fate/Zero when Saber first appears. In the dub she says "are you worthy, to be my master?" Which is definitely the intended meaning especially once you get further into the show and know how she is, but the subtitles just say "are you my master?" which makes her seem not quite like a dumbass... but it does make you go "wtf kind of question is that?" Not to mention the actual performances. Gilgamesh's dub voice actor is absolutely perfect for that role, and while the Japanese voice actor is good, he just doesn't compare.
Similar things with Psycho-Pass. All the meaning gets across pretty well in both version if I remember correctly, but Makashima's English actor is irreplaceable for that character. His performance alone is worth watching the dub for and it's just so much better, which is pretty difficult because I watched it subtitled first and I already loved it.
I'm certainly not a subtitle hater though, as everyone knows there are plenty of examples where the dub is terrible in comparison. Then you have shows like My Hero Academia which are interesting, because on the Japanese side they have Tomura Shigaraki who is absolutely perfect for that role. Listening to him in dub is painful to me, as his Japanese voice actor is absolutely perfect in that role. Then on the other hand you have Twice, who isn't as disappointing to listen to in Japanese as Tomura is in English, but Twice in the English dub is NOT a performance you want to miss out on. It was so annoying watching that show when the two were in scenes together, I'd often switch back and forth between dub and sub just to get the full awesomeness.
All this is to say that it's really on a case by case basis, and I'd suggest checking out both dub and sub early on (if both are available) that way you don't get attached to the version you're used to. Start right and give yourself the best experience from as early on as possible.
like in Fate/Zero when Saber first appears. In the dub she says “are you worthy, to be my master?” Which is definitely the intended meaning especially once you get further into the show and know how she is, but the subtitles just say “are you my master?” which makes her seem not quite like a dumbass… but it does make you go “wtf kind of question is that?”
I mean, it’s been a long time since I watched it, but I really don’t think that was the intended meaning. Saber had always been a very detached and humble person, I doubt she wanted to “test” Kiritsugu or anything. Iirc she’s also the only servant to retain memories between summonings (as she’s not a “copy” but Artoria herself), and it was the fourth time being summoned, so I assume it was just a routine at that point for her, kind of a plumber asking “where’s the leak”.
Although the issue is when spelled out in English, it does sound like a dumb question, and it’s also shorter than the Japanese so it wouldn’t match the timing well. I don’t blame them for changing it, but it’s still not the same as the original.
The point is also that it’s impossible to determine if a dub is good or not unless you’ve seen in their entirety both it and the original version. You may watch one episode and say “hey, I like the voices and the performance”, but maybe they made a mistranslation of something important and you’ll never realize unless you watch the original too. Maybe the first episode is done well but a bad voice actor later ruins everything.
All in all, sub is the original experience and you really can’t ever go wrong by watching it, as opposed to the dub which has an added layer of translation where stuff can potentially be messed up. I’ve personally watched dub first when my close friends recommended it, and did the same for them when I found good ones, but if I have to watch a series none of them watched dubbed yet, I’m not risking to ruin my experience.
I tend to agree. Although as a counterexample for not singing in dub, I present to you Angel Beats. I watched the English dub of that and one particular song that the main singer of a band sings made me cry from how beautiful it was. I'm sure it still would have had an impact, but there's no way it would have been as strong if they hadn't dubbed that song. Granted, a large reason for the crying was the episode in general and learning the story of the singer, but it's so fantastic in English that it seems like that was the only possible way it could be.
Are you saying the English dub of that also dubbed the songs? Where did you watch that? The only ones I've been able to find leave them in Japanese.
Nope, I fucked up. The songs are in Japanese still, I just remember the English lyrics with the beautiful singing and misremembered. My bad.
That argument never held much weight for me years ago, because a lot of subs were trash back then, too. You just picked whatever trash you wanted and let the weabs on the internet be damned.
I've listened to some of the so-called "good" dubs. They're still trash.
Honestly I think some of the older dubs are the best (your cowboy bebops, your Gurren laganns, and even silly shows like Ouran High School Host Club had great casts), back when the industry still had passionate and skilled actors. Now it's well known that anime voice acting pays for shit and all the talent has left for greener pastures—and I don't blame them.
Now it feels to me like most dubs get stuck with VAs just at the start of their careers and it really shows... Most dubs make me cringe nowadays with the acting.
Plus, I feel like you get a more accurate translation with subs because they're not trying to fit tweaked dialog into previously-animated mouth movements.
I used to really advocate for dubs and preferred them, but my stance has flipped quite a bit in recent years. Kinda sad to see them decline so much :(
Fate/Zero and Psycho-Pass dubs are both very much superior to their subtitled counterparts. Fight me.
If you think this about Baccano or Cowboy Bebop, your opinion is factually incorrect
I think replacing songs in the dub can go pretty hard, like, that's how we got most of the iconic 90's american anime theme songs. pokemon, digimon, yugioh, etc. I do like a lot of the naruto OPs too, for the record, and soul eater, and fullmetal alchemist, but it's really hard to beat how iconic the opening to pokemon is, and how that's laser engraved to like a fifth of all millennial's brains.
Actually, I wanna hijack this top post a little bit. Other people have brought up japanese name pronunciation, and replacing the names with more western stuff, and I would like to bring up the decision specifically in yugioh to make joey have a boston accent to mimic the accentedness of the japanese he would otherwise speak with. I dunno, there's something to the 4kids dubs that has a little bit more texture than your normal modern anime dubs. I like the lack of censorship more, the VAs tend to be better, there's not like, big confusing rewrites or repacings of certain sections, all that is good, about your more modern stuff. At the same time, I feel like a lot of the sub vs dub argument is gonna come about more when people don't let the dub be it's own thing. You already have to translate turns of phrase, culturally dependent expressions, yadda yadda, at what point do you really decide to stop? Maybe a bad example, because it doesn't really conform to the spirit of the original at all, but people still occasionally talk about the ghost stories dub. I dunno. I guess it doesn't need to be official, there's always abridged series to fill the void in my heart when it comes to anime that's written for a western audience more, but I do kinda wish that more dubs were just like. Willing to take risks. That more dubs were very obviously stand out.
I'm pretty sure the only good song dubs I've heard were from Belle. Sucks that the movie is so impressively mid
Ah, well. I'm just a poor old man. My legs are grey, my ears are gnarled. I need subtitles.
At this point I've adapted to somehow reading and seeing the picture at the same time
I think that's pretty natural? If you weren't getting any of the movie there'd be no points and we'd just read the subs on a kindle or something.
For people who grew up with subs it might be more spectacular. For us, it's just Tuesday.
Idk if anyone else has this but i get a weird flow state where i read the subtitles and its like the characters are talking in english but i if think about it, it stops.
Not sure if I've experienced that, but I have watched something in English with no subtitles after watching something in another language with subtitles and been unable to understand what they're saying until my brain adjusts.
As long as you can read fast enough, you don't miss anything. I hate it when video games have subtitles but you can't skip to the next line because I've finished reading what they said way before they're done saying it.
Sometimes I drop sub groups just over their timing. If it's too short, I will drop them since I will no longer enjoy it at that point.
Badly time subs are one of the things I hate most. It is so frustrating when they're not synced up well enough to match what the people are saying.
My issue with video game subtitles is actually the opposite problem. The subtitles have finished appearing, but the voiced line is still going. It's especially bad when you're playing in an audio language you can't understand. (Some Japanese video games still don't have English voice acting. Yakuza, for example, only recently started doing English voice acting.)
Honestly yeah. I disable subtitles even if I'd like them because I read it faster than they speak. The only anime subtitles that were going too fast for me for a while were Teekyuu but that clearly was meant to be for native audience so the pacing was as such.
I'm actualy losing my hearing so I'm starting to "hear" my shows better than I can my wife
Yeah, we're used to it, it's the only way I've watched movies since I was a kid.
I don't use subs now, maybe English ones cuz sometimes the actors speak way too fast and you have a hard time understanding what they're saying.
To each his own. My AuDHD means if there are subs I can't pay attention to the images. Dubs all the way for me.
My ADHD means that when there's subs I actually look at the screen instead of being distracted by my phone. Funny how that works out.
Well... you can't spell subtitles without tit..s.
Or "ub...les"
Unfortunately when I'm watching TV Im usually working out so I mostly just listen and occasionally glance over at it.
Dubs for the win on that one.
So you don't watch TV, you just like the audio distraction.
If I can hear conversations and look up often enough to know what the setting is, I'm getting the same information.
Working out doesn't really require your brain beyond counting reps, it's not a "distraction" if I'm still absorbing the story.
It it works for you, cool. Personally I prefer listening to radio or podcast.
I always enjoyed subs, but wished I could understand the original Japanese, so I took Japanese classes in HS and college to learn the language. Now I can't help but listen to the Japanese AND try to read the subtitles at the same time. (ー_ー*)
Try using japanese subtitles in animes you have already seen, it helps a lot honestly.
This is like when I put on dubs and subs, because I'm lazy and hard of hearing! It's fun because they never use the same translation for both so you get to watch the two fight it out over what's being said!
Yeah I can't watch subs. I don't want to have to read for a movie. I want to see the faces and expressions of people or characters as scenes play out. If I'm reading subtitles, I'm not immersed and the story doesn't slap as much for me.
I used to be hardcore anti-subs but then I started to realize that a large amount of English movies are mixed in a way where you can't understand anything that's going on anyway (thanks Christopher Nolan) so I have subs on for everything now because I can more consistently experience the entirety of the movie/show instead of my understanding of lines being up to if the director was upset that day.
Same. I watch everything with subtitles. Helps with the mild audio processing disorders that tend to go hand in hand with ADHD, Autism, or somewhere along the spectrum.
I do try and make them small and unobtrusive though. Especially when I can put them on the bottom where there are black bars due to aspect ratio differences.
Speaking of Nolan, I was able to watch Oppenheimer on 30mm at an independent theater and subtitles were actually turned on. It was much appreciated.
I watch everything in English with subs for this reason. But I can't usually do that for anime because the subs don't always match the dub and that's distracting
I listen to podcasts all the time, ones by American, British, and Australia speakers, and I think my aural comprehension has actually improved from that. I have a friend just like you though. Has to turn on subtitles for everything.
I can do audiobooks and such just fine, for some reason movies and shows recently have made a lot of the audio really hard to hear/understand sometimes. I watched Oppenheimer in the theater and I feel like I miss.half the dialogue in some of the louder scenes.
Ironically, when you read subs you do inevitably miss some nuances of what's going on.
On the plus side, the translations can be much better since they don't have to match it to the lips of the characters.
In the end, I like both, but I tend to watch more dubs. Japanese is a really neat language, though. Sometimes it's fun to watch subs just to hear it.
I learned English by reading english subs of pirated movies.
I did that for years. Now I get wierded out by movies dubbed in my language.
What is your language? A 1 to 1 translation can be varying degrees of awkward depending on the two languages involved.
No, that's not it. German is very close to English.
It's more that the known english-speaking actors suddenly have different voices.
Oh yeah. We had an exchange student many years ago from Germany and it took her a while to adjust to the actual voices of the actors on Star Trek Voyager, of which she was a fan, because she had only ever heard it with German dubs.
I generally watch dubs.. but if I can have the subs on at the same time as the dub I'll do that.
I only watch subs by itself if there is no dub, or if the dub is rediculously bad.
I actually think dubs get a lot of hate they shouldn't be getting so many of them are actually pretty good especially for a lot of modern shows.
Interestingly fairy tail is actually one of the better ones imo.
During my early teenage weeb days, I used to be a sub purist, disavowing anyone who preferred dub. I'd refuse to watch an anime with someone if they chose dub. However, I've changed a lot since then and now go with whatever sounds better to me. While some dubs are admittedly bad, others put a lot of time and effort into replicating the original Japanese feel, and they do a great job.
I've also noticed that certain anime set in specific countries feel odd in Japanese. For instance, when I watched Steamboy, it was bizarre hearing Japanese voices in the cities of Manchester and London. The Japanese voice actors struggling to pronounce English names and words fluently added to the peculiarity.
I don't buy into sub purists claiming all English dubs sound the same. Truth be told, a lot of Japanese voices also sound similar. There are cliché voices that almost allow you to predict how a character will sound in Japanese just by looking at their design.
These days I'm firmly of the opinion; whatever sounds right to you. I don't see the point of giving someone shit for choosing to watch a series in whatever language they prefer, as long as they're enjoying it.
I keep forgetting to try to find the Italian dub for Gunslinger Girls. That show made me cry twice already, and I'm ready for the third one. I think
I generally prefer watching in whatever the original language was (usually subs for me). But if I happen to see a show dubbed first, that becomes my new personal canon haha.
I can't stand dubs, I think that japanese VA are a lot better.
Anyway, I have been reading subs since I was 8 years old so I read them so fast that it doesn't bother me.
And I cant stand subs because I dont like the japanese language. We are the opposite
That's irrelevant, 'murican dubs lack soul. All of the good voice actors are working on videogames, so they're left with people they can get off the streets to voice anime in 'murica (sometimes literally).
by that logic you're irrelevant
Wow, what an awe inspiring contribution to the conversation. Truly a mind to rival the great philosophers.
I ain't gonna take this blasphemy sitting down. Jad Saxton, Chris Rager, Yuri Lowenthal, Brina Palencia, Crispin Freeman, Johnny Yong Bosch, I'll fight a mf that says Cherami Leigh lacks soul
English dub VAs don't get enough credit, it's damn hard matching mouth movements that were made for a different language
To each their own. I understand that dubs obviously miss things in translation and it is a valid argument. Sometimes the voice acting is trash. But at the same time I'm not gonna be a dick to someone for enjoying the same thing I do but different. A friend of mine that has never watched anime before we met has recently gotten into it and he watches dubs. We still have a lot of fun talking about the shows and he asks for recommendations all the time. The barrier for anime is pretty high for people that have never seen it before and the biggest way to turn people off of it is to tell them what they enjoy is wrong.
— "Stop enjoy things the wrong way!!!"
— "Don't be ass, man" puts pineapple in pasta
I watch anime for the beautiful animation (not necessary the "plot")
Having text plastered all over it kinda takes away from it.
So I will watch Dub every time.
It is also a great way to check if an anime is good, since they don't put so much effort in to dub something mediocre (usually)
if you don't watch it for the plot then why don't you watch it in Japanese without subtitles?
I speak English, and like using my ears and my eyes, which is why I watch dubs. If you don't speak Japanese, what are you doing listening to Japanese speaking voices?
Because not everything worth watching was created in my country? Why would I need to disrespect the intention/effort of everyone involved, when I can just read?
That doesn't make any sense. By that logic, wouldn't it be disrespectful to the English localization team to not listen to the dub? I mean, if you're going for perfect authenticity, the subtitles weren't there blocking the view in the original broadcast either, but you still have those on
I find dubs more distracting than subs. 🤷🏽♀️
I can't fathom how having your eyes free to watch the show and using your ears to listen is more distracting than having to read subtitles while listening to what amounts to incomprehensible noise
I have subtitles on for all the shows I watch in English too...
That's even more confusing to me
I have friends that do the same thing. It's terrible. We were watching a movie I had already seen last night, and someone wanted the subs on. I couldn't focus on the movie and I ended up playing on my phone. The subs kill me.
If you are used to reading subtitles you can read them almost subconsciously. And you don't need to understand the language to get things like emotion out of it. I would even go as far as saying that getting used to reading the emotions of someone that doesn't speak the same language as you is essential to fully develop a sense of empathy.
what are you doing listening to Japanese speaking voices?
I think some anime legitimately sounds better with the Japanese voice acting, but some people take it too far and extrapolate that to mean all anime is better with Japanese voices and any dub is immediately shit. It becomes these weird gate-keeping elitism among losers where you literally can't enjoy 'anime' a certain way or else these people won't think you're 'cool.'
One Punch Man sounds better with the Japanese voices imo. Saitama sounds downright iconic in Japanese, but like a generic wimpy boy in English.
The vast majority of other shows I prefer watching in English. Either the dub is identical in quality to the sub, or the difference is small enough that I don't care since I prefer watching things in my language.
My dude is not a man of culture... yet. No worries, at some point you'll understand, I'm sure.
Same shit I heard on reddit. As long as redditors and lemmings are disappointed in me, I'm happy with where I'm at in life.
Well, I'm one of the people who went through a period watching the anime raw, so I see your argument there. But if you read fast enough, it's just, I don't know, you stop consciously reading, and just watch the thing. Also, especially with modern American movies, the sound mixing is ass for the home speaker specifically because they've designed it that way. It's easier to have the subtitles on, because they designed the soundscape for the theater (Christopher Nolan does it on purpose, for example) and stereo be damned, especially with dialogue.
That said, I've gotten out of pooh-poohing whatever way you want to enjoy your show; there's not enough time on earth to worry about whether Tara Strong or Megumi Hayashibara is the better VA (my vote's on Hayashibara, but Strong is my childhood, and besides, it doesn't matter).
I dunno, man; let people enjoy things, right?
I dunno, man; let people enjoy things, right?
That's my feelings, it just gets annoying when people feel a need to spout out that you're an illiterate moron and say you have trash taste unprovoked all the time. That's the kind of thing that can drive an otherwise live-and-let-live guy to start an argument
And for the fandubs, there should be an additional paragraph as a hat explaining some concept or pun that just does not translate well.
日本語を学べばもっと簡単です
Damn, must have turned the subtitles off by mistake!
うーん、ええと
I prefer subs but as a person who has to be doing something I tend to watch dubs so I can multitask. My husband thinks I'm a monster but that scarf didn't knit itself ya know?
Cartoons that don’t sexualize kids > cartoons that do
But the anti-4kids crowd hates that argument
Your statement is correct, but I think people are taking it as an implication that all anime sexualizes kids, which is false. There's lots of really great anime out there.
No all anime is for weebz and all cartoons are for kids.
Now shut up and let me watch my fake reality tv show.
Preach!
'but she's actually 400 years old-' still gross.
Agreed but not really relevant here
But the anti-4kids crowd hates that argument
Anyone with a functioning brain is part of the “anti-4kids crowd”, I can assure you the majority of them agrees with your first statement as well.
Whenever you seen an anime watcher complaining about censorship in kids cartoons that’s what they complain about
4kids gave us the best TMNT series
Uhh... no? Despite the fact that a lot of anime they dubbed was shounen, so for teens (but obviously they wouldn't know because cartoons are only kid stuff in their head), if they only censored sexualization of minors, or sexualization at all, people would be much, much less mad.
They censored every small mention of blood and death and most japanese cultural references, changed 90% of the names and soundtrack, straight-up skipped episodes and oversimplified dialogues dumbing down every message the series might've tried to convey. That's criminal. Yu-Gi-Oh is literally a different series outside of Japan. I've seen series/games where the only censorship is on sexualization, and the backlash is nowhere nearly that bad.
Not to mention they also had horrible practices towards voice actors and licensors, so really, there's no reason not to hate those pieces of shit.
most japanese cultural references, changed 90% of the names and soundtrack,
Yeah, they went the extra mile to deliver higher quality dubs compared to Funimaton
Ah yes, more denaturalization of the original product = higher quality. Wonder why they didn’t have Captain Europe when localizing Marvel movies.
And then people wonder why anime dubs have a bad reputation when the biggest companies producing them were literally in a race for who could fuck more shit up.
And, in most cases, they suck. The Inside Out ones I’ve seen are acceptable because they’re minimal and, as they say, "They learned that some of their content wouldn’t make sense in other countries". But 4Kids didn’t do that. They literally turned Japanese anime for teens into American cartoons for kids.
Removing any hint of a deep message in everything and making every series a travesty is nowhere nearly comparable to what Pixar, or other modern companies did. Pixar altered things to get the same message across, 4Kids did it to remove any, and change it with one of their dumb jokes (which, albeit often funny, were slammed in serious situations and killed the mood of everything. Make an original series if you want to do that).
Yeah Sonic, Kirby, Pokémon were definitely for teens
According to Wikipedia, they licensed 15 Anime franchises in total. 8 of those were originally aimed at teens, and probably have all been butchered.
Come on, we both know people aren’t hating on 4Kids because they removed a couple scenes from Kirby.
Which ones do?
I mean a lot of it does, there's a reason it's part of the stigma against anime
Even some shows that I otherwise really like have an uncomfortable amount of sexualization of minors. A Certain Scientific Railgun, Steins;Gate, Gate, Gurren Lagann, to name a few
Steins;Gate? There’s, what, 1 second of a naked 16-year old in the whole series?
I'm talking specifically about the scene where Okarin grope Luka. It's one scene, he's rightfully called out for being a dickhead by everyone, but it's still uncomfortable to watch
I mean, I wouldn’t call that sexualization, it’s intentionally framed to make you uncomfortable (you’re playing as Okabe in the VN after all).
And still, it’s two scenes with 16-year olds, pretty sure most western teen dramas do far worse. The stigma is because of stuff like SAO or Code Geass where they literally can’t let two episodes pass without a butt in your face.
Well I know about Japanese culture with the "perverted wind" blowing up skirts, people peeking under skirts and the crotch shots when kicking someone in the face and getting a bloody nose and stuff. I know about that kind of pervertedness but that seems fairly harmless to me. I've seen some Pokémon episodes mentioned which weren't released in the west, and even then I wouldn't deem it as problematic.
So I am thinking either I'm really naive, which I will say I certainly am, or I am missing some things. Most people I know don't even know what anime is, and if they do, they think of Pokémon and Sailor Moon. But not much else. So I guess most of this news has passed me by.
[edit]
Oh and I've seen none of the anime you mentioned so maybe that is the issue. I'm mainly focussed on older anime. But I have just now watched that scene from Steins;Gate and I totally get what you mean if you are talking about that. That is so incredibly uncomfortable and unnecessary to be in there. Graphically I think the show looks nice and I feel like I want to watch this some more if I could have not seen this scene.
While most anime doesn't sexualize minors, a lot of it does, and unfortunately what comes to a lot of people's minds when we talk about anime is either stuff like Naruto and DBZ where two guys shout at each other until someone wins, or stuff like Kill La Kill where a female character's power level is seemingly determined by how small their clothes are. Anime would have a much better reputation if shows like ACCA and Mushishi were the ones everyone knew about.
I feel like I want to watch this some more if I could have not seen this scene.
To be fair, that is the only questionable scene in the show. I highly recommend watching it, I'd hate for your only experience of Steins;Gate being the worst scene in it
I can get that, yes. I've seen people judge anime by just having seen DBZ and not much else.
And I'll give Steins;Gate a try then, thanks.
Well in Pokémon a character asks to suck Misty’s tits, it’s an anime trope for old people to be pervs and you come across a few in the series. There’s the beach episode and you get a lot of shots that pan from her ass
In Yu-gi-oh you get the “love slave” comment…along with yugi’s grandfather being a perv. Mai also hits on yugi a ton which either she’s a kid who they draw with huge tits and a really short skirt or she’s an adult trying to hit on a 14 year old
Inuyasha has Kagome bathing naked a few times
No Game No Life has not just loli but hinting at incest a bunch. But the main character (kid) is obsessed with trying to spy on the girls while they bathe. If you get the light novel then the opening pages are straight up loli hentai
Thanks. That sounds terrible though.
it’s an anime trope for old people to be pervs
Weirdly enough, I just learned in my Developmental Psychology class recently that there's a very surprising amount of sex between old people going on in nursing homes. Some of the students who'd actually worked in nursing homes before even confirmed it. So the trope may not be as unfounded as we might think.
Not saying old people hitting on kids is okay. It's freaking weird and gross. Just stating an interesting fact.
Having sex makes you a perv?
No, I moreso meant that older people having sexual desires is surprisingly common.
I'll never understand fanboys that fawn over subs. Why give yourself extra work? Anime is the perfect medium for dub.
I understand that you can lose meaning in translation but most fans do not understand Japanese so why?!?
In my opinion most western voice actors can't really convey the expression of anime character the Japanese VAs can bring to life.
This is caused by a lot of factors not inherently about voice acting performance, but the language differences. A lot of high pitched expressions are simply non-existed in most other languages, for example. Even if you imitated the tone completely, the language itself as a lot of people know and speak will make the aptly toned expression sound very very weird or creepy within the utterance of the target language.
So for most people dub is simply not on point, or a lot of the times even jarring to match the visual expression to the voice. Subs perfectly keep that distinction.
Most of the time people in western culture finding youngsters imitate anime stuff weird because of this distinction, not because they simply heated expressions, which the target language already has but in other tones and forms.
Once you're used to it, it really isn't extra work. But at this point it'll watch either as long as the dub doesn't annoy me.
As an older fan, because historically, dubs were utter crap. Until about 20 years ago, only kids anime got dubbed and when it was that version would be edited and censored. Some companies would also put out a parallel uncensored release and if one was available, it would be subs only.
Even when you started to get older teen anime dubbed, the voice casting tended to be pretty bad.
Because it doesn't feel like extra work once you've gotten used to it, and it still feels like I'm watching a Japanese anime as intended by the original creators.
Someone once told me the dub for Mushoku Tensei was better than the sub. That person was a liar.
Also, that anime is incredibly weird.
Huh totally normal anime, with a pervert toddler. Mhhh hold on a minute.
I wouldn't say better but it is solid. Watching it dub with the wife and the dub isn't detracting from my experience.
with many anime shows, the english dubs have a lot of shit cut out. Especially if it's not one of the huge ones that everyone has heard of.
I prefer subs.
I have watched anime for quite some time now and started watching subbed, when I realized that the animes I liked were way ahead in the original version. Like a couple of hundred episodes for One Piece as an example.
I got used to reading the subs in my peripheral vision. There may be some instances where I have to do a double take if there is an unusual word, but that's very rare. English isn't my first language, but english subs are more easily available.
Outside of anime, I always choose the original version with subs as well because it feels more natural to me and I'm used to reading subs anyway. One good example is Sopranos, where the dub in my language doesn't have any Italian accent whatsoever. The great mafia atmosphere of the original gets totally lost that way.
That aside I totally get watching the dubbed version.
Today in times of simul-dubs you don't have to wait for years at a time. You can watch dubs as background noise. The voice actors are usually great, even if not as consistently incredible as the originals.
I always watch dubs with my family and friends, often shows or movies I already watched subbed.
Watching something together for me isn't about the show alone but more about experiencing it together. Watching subbed would defeat that experience as you couldn't talk to each other as easily as with the dubbed version in your native language.
TLDR: alone I watch subs for the original experience, with others I watch dubs for the experience of watching together.
There's a reason why Japanese voice actors are treated like A-tier celebrities and 'murican anime voice actors are a bunch of nobodies. The chasm between their skill levels is too big.
American voice actors definitely get treated like stars and have fans. Source: Ive been to plenty of conventions. Also, another reason Japanese seiyuu are treated with such high praise is because many of them do other media, particularly music.
But seriously, American voice actors have fan groups. Anime and American animation voice actors, and video games actors. There's a lot of overlap there. There are very passionate fandoms.
American voice actors definitely get treated like stars and have fans. Source: Ive been to plenty of conventions.
One for every hundred VAs, maybe.
another reason Japanese seiyuu are treated with such high praise is because many of them do other media, particularly music.
Many of the most celebrated seiyuu do nothing but voice acting.
Many of the most celebrated seiyuu do nothing but voice acting.
Absolutely not true. There may be some, but seiyuu work is extremely hard. They work their asses off in a cutthroat competitive world doing many things on the side and making money from many more angles that just their voice acting.
How exactly tf do you know how good a voice actor is if you can't understand their language, accent, or inflections? Do you reckon maybe American voice actors aren't treated well has more to do with the elitist attitude weebs have regarding them than their skill levels?
I've heard that Japanese anime voice actors are seen on about the same level as we see American anime voice actors.
if you can’t understand their language, accent, or inflections?
I understand all of those things, and I'm a second language speaker for both English and Japanese, so there's no favoritism there.
Do you reckon maybe American voice actors aren’t treated well has more to do with the elitist attitude weebs have regarding them than their skill levels?
No, I don't. That's a fairly senseless hypothesis.
I read the subtitles for the "plot" after all 😅
And then you turn on dubs and it's all "And such as this and thus, as I have said so, and I declare in this moment."
You gotta find the right eye height.
you both it!
pov: too lazy to learn the language
I usually think less of a person when they say subs > dubs cause it's usually an elitist loser.
100% guaranteed weeb.
In jojo, the dub is 100 times better than the sub, especially pts 1-4
Yeah but then you don't get the real names of the stands
shining diamond > crazy diamond
To be fair, I watched subbed, and the sub still used the fake names
Stop watching anime and read a goddamn book
Stop doomscrolling lemmy and trying to post edgy comments.
The dubs vs subs argument made more sense when dubs were generally low effort trash. Now dubbing is done very well. As someone who can read subtitles fine, a dub is always more a relaxing/ less cerebral experience where I can focus that much more on the content.
Except singing of course. Don’t dub songs.
To each his own. Some prefer the original audio simply because it is foreign, making it easier to mentally dive into a fantasy world. Others get taken out of the immersion by having to read subs and not focusing on the screen all the time.
Isn't it great that nowadays we have a real choice, so everyone can enjoy media how they want?
I really don't want to make a thing of it, but it's nice to hear the original voice acting. I kinda want to hear that Japanese voice actress who's probably famous for all sorts of roles, it seems unfair to consume everyone else's work but not hers, so I want to pick up the OG vibe from the dubbed anime if I can. I bet undubbed Cowboy Bebop is good stuff, I should find that and watch it.
It can get crazy though. US DBZ gives fairly masculine voices to all male characters who are not obviously children, even if most of them sound like young men and aren't all that bassy, save, of course, Piccolo and Vegeta. Vegeta always sounds like he's trying to put some bass in his voice, but he's all nasal. Still. Man voices. Even Krillen gets a grown man voice, even if he's reedy and is supposed to sound like a pipsqueak.
I watched 10 minutes of the show once that was in notEnglish and absolutely the fuck not. Everyone had extremely high-pitched little boy voices which was fucking weird, and I kept waiting for them to drop the gag, but no, that's their voices for that version. Goku sounding like a chipmunk squeaker yelling in some other language. No thanks. To this day I have no idea what language that was.
So sometimes you just want subbed anime. Sometimes you want to watch Tenchi Muyo with a Ryoko who sounds right. My strong opinion is that I shouldn't have one when it comes to subs v dubs, that's internet clown stuff for people who think arguing is a fun sport.
Problem with dubs is japanese names pronunciation in english, no matter how good the VAs are.
Oof, so I just started learning Japanese this year and this bothers me ALOT. I don't get why they do this. It really is dumb.
They should all go the 4Kids Yu Gi Oh route and give the characters American names like Joey and Tristan
It’s done well (usually), but it’s still not the original. Something will inevitably be lost in the adaptation anyway, and if you know even a slight bit of Japanese (or whatever the original language is), subs are the better choice for a first view, imo.
Then, if the series/movie was good and I feel like watching it again, I’ll go with the dub when available. Rarely, if ever, I found a Dub that was better than an original version, but a lot have been at the same level so it’s definitely worth it.
Fate/Zero and Psycho-Pass are two good examples where the dub is superior to the subtitled version. They mess up some of the meanings in the subtitled versions, like in Fate/Zero when Saber first appears. In the dub she says "are you worthy, to be my master?" Which is definitely the intended meaning especially once you get further into the show and know how she is, but the subtitles just say "are you my master?" which makes her seem not quite like a dumbass... but it does make you go "wtf kind of question is that?" Not to mention the actual performances. Gilgamesh's dub voice actor is absolutely perfect for that role, and while the Japanese voice actor is good, he just doesn't compare.
Similar things with Psycho-Pass. All the meaning gets across pretty well in both version if I remember correctly, but Makashima's English actor is irreplaceable for that character. His performance alone is worth watching the dub for and it's just so much better, which is pretty difficult because I watched it subtitled first and I already loved it.
I'm certainly not a subtitle hater though, as everyone knows there are plenty of examples where the dub is terrible in comparison. Then you have shows like My Hero Academia which are interesting, because on the Japanese side they have Tomura Shigaraki who is absolutely perfect for that role. Listening to him in dub is painful to me, as his Japanese voice actor is absolutely perfect in that role. Then on the other hand you have Twice, who isn't as disappointing to listen to in Japanese as Tomura is in English, but Twice in the English dub is NOT a performance you want to miss out on. It was so annoying watching that show when the two were in scenes together, I'd often switch back and forth between dub and sub just to get the full awesomeness.
All this is to say that it's really on a case by case basis, and I'd suggest checking out both dub and sub early on (if both are available) that way you don't get attached to the version you're used to. Start right and give yourself the best experience from as early on as possible.
I mean, it’s been a long time since I watched it, but I really don’t think that was the intended meaning. Saber had always been a very detached and humble person, I doubt she wanted to “test” Kiritsugu or anything. Iirc she’s also the only servant to retain memories between summonings (as she’s not a “copy” but Artoria herself), and it was the fourth time being summoned, so I assume it was just a routine at that point for her, kind of a plumber asking “where’s the leak”.
Although the issue is when spelled out in English, it does sound like a dumb question, and it’s also shorter than the Japanese so it wouldn’t match the timing well. I don’t blame them for changing it, but it’s still not the same as the original.
The point is also that it’s impossible to determine if a dub is good or not unless you’ve seen in their entirety both it and the original version. You may watch one episode and say “hey, I like the voices and the performance”, but maybe they made a mistranslation of something important and you’ll never realize unless you watch the original too. Maybe the first episode is done well but a bad voice actor later ruins everything.
All in all, sub is the original experience and you really can’t ever go wrong by watching it, as opposed to the dub which has an added layer of translation where stuff can potentially be messed up. I’ve personally watched dub first when my close friends recommended it, and did the same for them when I found good ones, but if I have to watch a series none of them watched dubbed yet, I’m not risking to ruin my experience.
I tend to agree. Although as a counterexample for not singing in dub, I present to you Angel Beats. I watched the English dub of that and one particular song that the main singer of a band sings made me cry from how beautiful it was. I'm sure it still would have had an impact, but there's no way it would have been as strong if they hadn't dubbed that song. Granted, a large reason for the crying was the episode in general and learning the story of the singer, but it's so fantastic in English that it seems like that was the only possible way it could be.
Are you saying the English dub of that also dubbed the songs? Where did you watch that? The only ones I've been able to find leave them in Japanese.
Nope, I fucked up. The songs are in Japanese still, I just remember the English lyrics with the beautiful singing and misremembered. My bad.
That argument never held much weight for me years ago, because a lot of subs were trash back then, too. You just picked whatever trash you wanted and let the weabs on the internet be damned.
I've listened to some of the so-called "good" dubs. They're still trash.
Honestly I think some of the older dubs are the best (your cowboy bebops, your Gurren laganns, and even silly shows like Ouran High School Host Club had great casts), back when the industry still had passionate and skilled actors. Now it's well known that anime voice acting pays for shit and all the talent has left for greener pastures—and I don't blame them.
Now it feels to me like most dubs get stuck with VAs just at the start of their careers and it really shows... Most dubs make me cringe nowadays with the acting.
Plus, I feel like you get a more accurate translation with subs because they're not trying to fit tweaked dialog into previously-animated mouth movements.
I used to really advocate for dubs and preferred them, but my stance has flipped quite a bit in recent years. Kinda sad to see them decline so much :(
Fate/Zero and Psycho-Pass dubs are both very much superior to their subtitled counterparts. Fight me.
If you think this about Baccano or Cowboy Bebop, your opinion is factually incorrect
I think replacing songs in the dub can go pretty hard, like, that's how we got most of the iconic 90's american anime theme songs. pokemon, digimon, yugioh, etc. I do like a lot of the naruto OPs too, for the record, and soul eater, and fullmetal alchemist, but it's really hard to beat how iconic the opening to pokemon is, and how that's laser engraved to like a fifth of all millennial's brains.
Actually, I wanna hijack this top post a little bit. Other people have brought up japanese name pronunciation, and replacing the names with more western stuff, and I would like to bring up the decision specifically in yugioh to make joey have a boston accent to mimic the accentedness of the japanese he would otherwise speak with. I dunno, there's something to the 4kids dubs that has a little bit more texture than your normal modern anime dubs. I like the lack of censorship more, the VAs tend to be better, there's not like, big confusing rewrites or repacings of certain sections, all that is good, about your more modern stuff. At the same time, I feel like a lot of the sub vs dub argument is gonna come about more when people don't let the dub be it's own thing. You already have to translate turns of phrase, culturally dependent expressions, yadda yadda, at what point do you really decide to stop? Maybe a bad example, because it doesn't really conform to the spirit of the original at all, but people still occasionally talk about the ghost stories dub. I dunno. I guess it doesn't need to be official, there's always abridged series to fill the void in my heart when it comes to anime that's written for a western audience more, but I do kinda wish that more dubs were just like. Willing to take risks. That more dubs were very obviously stand out.
I'm pretty sure the only good song dubs I've heard were from Belle. Sucks that the movie is so impressively mid
Ah, well. I'm just a poor old man. My legs are grey, my ears are gnarled. I need subtitles.
At this point I've adapted to somehow reading and seeing the picture at the same time
I think that's pretty natural? If you weren't getting any of the movie there'd be no points and we'd just read the subs on a kindle or something.
For people who grew up with subs it might be more spectacular. For us, it's just Tuesday.
Idk if anyone else has this but i get a weird flow state where i read the subtitles and its like the characters are talking in english but i if think about it, it stops.
Not sure if I've experienced that, but I have watched something in English with no subtitles after watching something in another language with subtitles and been unable to understand what they're saying until my brain adjusts.
As long as you can read fast enough, you don't miss anything. I hate it when video games have subtitles but you can't skip to the next line because I've finished reading what they said way before they're done saying it.
Sometimes I drop sub groups just over their timing. If it's too short, I will drop them since I will no longer enjoy it at that point.
Badly time subs are one of the things I hate most. It is so frustrating when they're not synced up well enough to match what the people are saying.
My issue with video game subtitles is actually the opposite problem. The subtitles have finished appearing, but the voiced line is still going. It's especially bad when you're playing in an audio language you can't understand. (Some Japanese video games still don't have English voice acting. Yakuza, for example, only recently started doing English voice acting.)
Honestly yeah. I disable subtitles even if I'd like them because I read it faster than they speak. The only anime subtitles that were going too fast for me for a while were Teekyuu but that clearly was meant to be for native audience so the pacing was as such.
I'm actualy losing my hearing so I'm starting to "hear" my shows better than I can my wife
Yeah, we're used to it, it's the only way I've watched movies since I was a kid.
I don't use subs now, maybe English ones cuz sometimes the actors speak way too fast and you have a hard time understanding what they're saying.
To each his own. My AuDHD means if there are subs I can't pay attention to the images. Dubs all the way for me.
My ADHD means that when there's subs I actually look at the screen instead of being distracted by my phone. Funny how that works out.
Well... you can't spell subtitles without tit..s.
Or "ub...les"
Unfortunately when I'm watching TV Im usually working out so I mostly just listen and occasionally glance over at it.
Dubs for the win on that one.
So you don't watch TV, you just like the audio distraction.
If I can hear conversations and look up often enough to know what the setting is, I'm getting the same information.
Working out doesn't really require your brain beyond counting reps, it's not a "distraction" if I'm still absorbing the story.
It it works for you, cool. Personally I prefer listening to radio or podcast.
I always enjoyed subs, but wished I could understand the original Japanese, so I took Japanese classes in HS and college to learn the language. Now I can't help but listen to the Japanese AND try to read the subtitles at the same time. (ー_ー*)
Try using japanese subtitles in animes you have already seen, it helps a lot honestly.
This is like when I put on dubs and subs, because I'm lazy and hard of hearing! It's fun because they never use the same translation for both so you get to watch the two fight it out over what's being said!
Yeah I can't watch subs. I don't want to have to read for a movie. I want to see the faces and expressions of people or characters as scenes play out. If I'm reading subtitles, I'm not immersed and the story doesn't slap as much for me.
I used to be hardcore anti-subs but then I started to realize that a large amount of English movies are mixed in a way where you can't understand anything that's going on anyway (thanks Christopher Nolan) so I have subs on for everything now because I can more consistently experience the entirety of the movie/show instead of my understanding of lines being up to if the director was upset that day.
Same. I watch everything with subtitles. Helps with the mild audio processing disorders that tend to go hand in hand with ADHD, Autism, or somewhere along the spectrum.
I do try and make them small and unobtrusive though. Especially when I can put them on the bottom where there are black bars due to aspect ratio differences.
Speaking of Nolan, I was able to watch Oppenheimer on 30mm at an independent theater and subtitles were actually turned on. It was much appreciated.
I watch everything in English with subs for this reason. But I can't usually do that for anime because the subs don't always match the dub and that's distracting
I listen to podcasts all the time, ones by American, British, and Australia speakers, and I think my aural comprehension has actually improved from that. I have a friend just like you though. Has to turn on subtitles for everything.
I can do audiobooks and such just fine, for some reason movies and shows recently have made a lot of the audio really hard to hear/understand sometimes. I watched Oppenheimer in the theater and I feel like I miss.half the dialogue in some of the louder scenes.
Ironically, when you read subs you do inevitably miss some nuances of what's going on.
On the plus side, the translations can be much better since they don't have to match it to the lips of the characters.
In the end, I like both, but I tend to watch more dubs. Japanese is a really neat language, though. Sometimes it's fun to watch subs just to hear it.
I learned English by reading english subs of pirated movies.
I did that for years. Now I get wierded out by movies dubbed in my language.
What is your language? A 1 to 1 translation can be varying degrees of awkward depending on the two languages involved.
No, that's not it. German is very close to English.
It's more that the known english-speaking actors suddenly have different voices.
Oh yeah. We had an exchange student many years ago from Germany and it took her a while to adjust to the actual voices of the actors on Star Trek Voyager, of which she was a fan, because she had only ever heard it with German dubs.
I generally watch dubs.. but if I can have the subs on at the same time as the dub I'll do that.
I only watch subs by itself if there is no dub, or if the dub is rediculously bad.
I actually think dubs get a lot of hate they shouldn't be getting so many of them are actually pretty good especially for a lot of modern shows.
Interestingly fairy tail is actually one of the better ones imo.
During my early teenage weeb days, I used to be a sub purist, disavowing anyone who preferred dub. I'd refuse to watch an anime with someone if they chose dub. However, I've changed a lot since then and now go with whatever sounds better to me. While some dubs are admittedly bad, others put a lot of time and effort into replicating the original Japanese feel, and they do a great job.
I've also noticed that certain anime set in specific countries feel odd in Japanese. For instance, when I watched Steamboy, it was bizarre hearing Japanese voices in the cities of Manchester and London. The Japanese voice actors struggling to pronounce English names and words fluently added to the peculiarity.
I don't buy into sub purists claiming all English dubs sound the same. Truth be told, a lot of Japanese voices also sound similar. There are cliché voices that almost allow you to predict how a character will sound in Japanese just by looking at their design.
These days I'm firmly of the opinion; whatever sounds right to you. I don't see the point of giving someone shit for choosing to watch a series in whatever language they prefer, as long as they're enjoying it.
I keep forgetting to try to find the Italian dub for Gunslinger Girls. That show made me cry twice already, and I'm ready for the third one. I think
I generally prefer watching in whatever the original language was (usually subs for me). But if I happen to see a show dubbed first, that becomes my new personal canon haha.
I can't stand dubs, I think that japanese VA are a lot better. Anyway, I have been reading subs since I was 8 years old so I read them so fast that it doesn't bother me.
And I cant stand subs because I dont like the japanese language. We are the opposite
That's irrelevant, 'murican dubs lack soul. All of the good voice actors are working on videogames, so they're left with people they can get off the streets to voice anime in 'murica (sometimes literally).
by that logic you're irrelevant
Wow, what an awe inspiring contribution to the conversation. Truly a mind to rival the great philosophers.
I ain't gonna take this blasphemy sitting down. Jad Saxton, Chris Rager, Yuri Lowenthal, Brina Palencia, Crispin Freeman, Johnny Yong Bosch, I'll fight a mf that says Cherami Leigh lacks soul
English dub VAs don't get enough credit, it's damn hard matching mouth movements that were made for a different language
To each their own. I understand that dubs obviously miss things in translation and it is a valid argument. Sometimes the voice acting is trash. But at the same time I'm not gonna be a dick to someone for enjoying the same thing I do but different. A friend of mine that has never watched anime before we met has recently gotten into it and he watches dubs. We still have a lot of fun talking about the shows and he asks for recommendations all the time. The barrier for anime is pretty high for people that have never seen it before and the biggest way to turn people off of it is to tell them what they enjoy is wrong.
— "Stop enjoy things the wrong way!!!"
— "Don't be ass, man" puts pineapple in pasta
I watch anime for the beautiful animation (not necessary the "plot")
Having text plastered all over it kinda takes away from it.
So I will watch Dub every time.
It is also a great way to check if an anime is good, since they don't put so much effort in to dub something mediocre (usually)
if you don't watch it for the plot then why don't you watch it in Japanese without subtitles?
"plot" = sensual or sexual content
what? we're talking about the storyline
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-watch-it-for-the-plot
I will turn on subtitles for dubbed media too
If it lets you
I speak English, and like using my ears and my eyes, which is why I watch dubs. If you don't speak Japanese, what are you doing listening to Japanese speaking voices?
Because not everything worth watching was created in my country? Why would I need to disrespect the intention/effort of everyone involved, when I can just read?
That doesn't make any sense. By that logic, wouldn't it be disrespectful to the English localization team to not listen to the dub? I mean, if you're going for perfect authenticity, the subtitles weren't there blocking the view in the original broadcast either, but you still have those on
I find dubs more distracting than subs. 🤷🏽♀️
I can't fathom how having your eyes free to watch the show and using your ears to listen is more distracting than having to read subtitles while listening to what amounts to incomprehensible noise
I have subtitles on for all the shows I watch in English too...
That's even more confusing to me
I have friends that do the same thing. It's terrible. We were watching a movie I had already seen last night, and someone wanted the subs on. I couldn't focus on the movie and I ended up playing on my phone. The subs kill me.
If you are used to reading subtitles you can read them almost subconsciously. And you don't need to understand the language to get things like emotion out of it. I would even go as far as saying that getting used to reading the emotions of someone that doesn't speak the same language as you is essential to fully develop a sense of empathy.
I think some anime legitimately sounds better with the Japanese voice acting, but some people take it too far and extrapolate that to mean all anime is better with Japanese voices and any dub is immediately shit. It becomes these weird gate-keeping elitism among losers where you literally can't enjoy 'anime' a certain way or else these people won't think you're 'cool.'
One Punch Man sounds better with the Japanese voices imo. Saitama sounds downright iconic in Japanese, but like a generic wimpy boy in English.
The vast majority of other shows I prefer watching in English. Either the dub is identical in quality to the sub, or the difference is small enough that I don't care since I prefer watching things in my language.
My dude is not a man of culture... yet. No worries, at some point you'll understand, I'm sure.
Same shit I heard on reddit. As long as redditors and lemmings are disappointed in me, I'm happy with where I'm at in life.
Well, I'm one of the people who went through a period watching the anime raw, so I see your argument there. But if you read fast enough, it's just, I don't know, you stop consciously reading, and just watch the thing. Also, especially with modern American movies, the sound mixing is ass for the home speaker specifically because they've designed it that way. It's easier to have the subtitles on, because they designed the soundscape for the theater (Christopher Nolan does it on purpose, for example) and stereo be damned, especially with dialogue.
That said, I've gotten out of pooh-poohing whatever way you want to enjoy your show; there's not enough time on earth to worry about whether Tara Strong or Megumi Hayashibara is the better VA (my vote's on Hayashibara, but Strong is my childhood, and besides, it doesn't matter).
I dunno, man; let people enjoy things, right?
That's my feelings, it just gets annoying when people feel a need to spout out that you're an illiterate moron and say you have trash taste unprovoked all the time. That's the kind of thing that can drive an otherwise live-and-let-live guy to start an argument
And for the fandubs, there should be an additional paragraph as a hat explaining some concept or pun that just does not translate well.
日本語を学べばもっと簡単です
Damn, must have turned the subtitles off by mistake!
うーん、ええと
I prefer subs but as a person who has to be doing something I tend to watch dubs so I can multitask. My husband thinks I'm a monster but that scarf didn't knit itself ya know?
Cartoons that don’t sexualize kids > cartoons that do
But the anti-4kids crowd hates that argument
Your statement is correct, but I think people are taking it as an implication that all anime sexualizes kids, which is false. There's lots of really great anime out there.
No all anime is for weebz and all cartoons are for kids.
Now shut up and let me watch my fake reality tv show.
Preach!
'but she's actually 400 years old-' still gross.
Agreed but not really relevant here
Anyone with a functioning brain is part of the “anti-4kids crowd”, I can assure you the majority of them agrees with your first statement as well.
Whenever you seen an anime watcher complaining about censorship in kids cartoons that’s what they complain about
4kids gave us the best TMNT series
Uhh... no? Despite the fact that a lot of anime they dubbed was shounen, so for teens (but obviously they wouldn't know because cartoons are only kid stuff in their head), if they only censored sexualization of minors, or sexualization at all, people would be much, much less mad.
They censored every small mention of blood and death and most japanese cultural references, changed 90% of the names and soundtrack, straight-up skipped episodes and oversimplified dialogues dumbing down every message the series might've tried to convey. That's criminal. Yu-Gi-Oh is literally a different series outside of Japan. I've seen series/games where the only censorship is on sexualization, and the backlash is nowhere nearly that bad.
Not to mention they also had horrible practices towards voice actors and licensors, so really, there's no reason not to hate those pieces of shit.
Yeah, they went the extra mile to deliver higher quality dubs compared to Funimaton
Ah yes, more denaturalization of the original product = higher quality. Wonder why they didn’t have Captain Europe when localizing Marvel movies.
And then people wonder why anime dubs have a bad reputation when the biggest companies producing them were literally in a race for who could fuck more shit up.
There are localization changes
Example https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/66927/small-details-inside-out-differ-depending-what-country-you-see-it
And, in most cases, they suck. The Inside Out ones I’ve seen are acceptable because they’re minimal and, as they say, "They learned that some of their content wouldn’t make sense in other countries". But 4Kids didn’t do that. They literally turned Japanese anime for teens into American cartoons for kids.
Removing any hint of a deep message in everything and making every series a travesty is nowhere nearly comparable to what Pixar, or other modern companies did. Pixar altered things to get the same message across, 4Kids did it to remove any, and change it with one of their dumb jokes (which, albeit often funny, were slammed in serious situations and killed the mood of everything. Make an original series if you want to do that).
Yeah Sonic, Kirby, Pokémon were definitely for teens
According to Wikipedia, they licensed 15 Anime franchises in total. 8 of those were originally aimed at teens, and probably have all been butchered.
Come on, we both know people aren’t hating on 4Kids because they removed a couple scenes from Kirby.
Which ones do?
I mean a lot of it does, there's a reason it's part of the stigma against anime
Even some shows that I otherwise really like have an uncomfortable amount of sexualization of minors. A Certain Scientific Railgun, Steins;Gate, Gate, Gurren Lagann, to name a few
Steins;Gate? There’s, what, 1 second of a naked 16-year old in the whole series?
I'm talking specifically about the scene where Okarin grope Luka. It's one scene, he's rightfully called out for being a dickhead by everyone, but it's still uncomfortable to watch
I mean, I wouldn’t call that sexualization, it’s intentionally framed to make you uncomfortable (you’re playing as Okabe in the VN after all).
And still, it’s two scenes with 16-year olds, pretty sure most western teen dramas do far worse. The stigma is because of stuff like SAO or Code Geass where they literally can’t let two episodes pass without a butt in your face.
Well I know about Japanese culture with the "perverted wind" blowing up skirts, people peeking under skirts and the crotch shots when kicking someone in the face and getting a bloody nose and stuff. I know about that kind of pervertedness but that seems fairly harmless to me. I've seen some Pokémon episodes mentioned which weren't released in the west, and even then I wouldn't deem it as problematic. So I am thinking either I'm really naive, which I will say I certainly am, or I am missing some things. Most people I know don't even know what anime is, and if they do, they think of Pokémon and Sailor Moon. But not much else. So I guess most of this news has passed me by.
[edit] Oh and I've seen none of the anime you mentioned so maybe that is the issue. I'm mainly focussed on older anime. But I have just now watched that scene from Steins;Gate and I totally get what you mean if you are talking about that. That is so incredibly uncomfortable and unnecessary to be in there. Graphically I think the show looks nice and I feel like I want to watch this some more if I could have not seen this scene.
While most anime doesn't sexualize minors, a lot of it does, and unfortunately what comes to a lot of people's minds when we talk about anime is either stuff like Naruto and DBZ where two guys shout at each other until someone wins, or stuff like Kill La Kill where a female character's power level is seemingly determined by how small their clothes are. Anime would have a much better reputation if shows like ACCA and Mushishi were the ones everyone knew about.
To be fair, that is the only questionable scene in the show. I highly recommend watching it, I'd hate for your only experience of Steins;Gate being the worst scene in it
I can get that, yes. I've seen people judge anime by just having seen DBZ and not much else.
And I'll give Steins;Gate a try then, thanks.
Well in Pokémon a character asks to suck Misty’s tits, it’s an anime trope for old people to be pervs and you come across a few in the series. There’s the beach episode and you get a lot of shots that pan from her ass
In Yu-gi-oh you get the “love slave” comment…along with yugi’s grandfather being a perv. Mai also hits on yugi a ton which either she’s a kid who they draw with huge tits and a really short skirt or she’s an adult trying to hit on a 14 year old
Inuyasha has Kagome bathing naked a few times
No Game No Life has not just loli but hinting at incest a bunch. But the main character (kid) is obsessed with trying to spy on the girls while they bathe. If you get the light novel then the opening pages are straight up loli hentai
Thanks. That sounds terrible though.
Weirdly enough, I just learned in my Developmental Psychology class recently that there's a very surprising amount of sex between old people going on in nursing homes. Some of the students who'd actually worked in nursing homes before even confirmed it. So the trope may not be as unfounded as we might think.
Not saying old people hitting on kids is okay. It's freaking weird and gross. Just stating an interesting fact.
Having sex makes you a perv?
No, I moreso meant that older people having sexual desires is surprisingly common.
I'll never understand fanboys that fawn over subs. Why give yourself extra work? Anime is the perfect medium for dub.
I understand that you can lose meaning in translation but most fans do not understand Japanese so why?!?
In my opinion most western voice actors can't really convey the expression of anime character the Japanese VAs can bring to life.
This is caused by a lot of factors not inherently about voice acting performance, but the language differences. A lot of high pitched expressions are simply non-existed in most other languages, for example. Even if you imitated the tone completely, the language itself as a lot of people know and speak will make the aptly toned expression sound very very weird or creepy within the utterance of the target language.
So for most people dub is simply not on point, or a lot of the times even jarring to match the visual expression to the voice. Subs perfectly keep that distinction.
Most of the time people in western culture finding youngsters imitate anime stuff weird because of this distinction, not because they simply heated expressions, which the target language already has but in other tones and forms.
Once you're used to it, it really isn't extra work. But at this point it'll watch either as long as the dub doesn't annoy me.
As an older fan, because historically, dubs were utter crap. Until about 20 years ago, only kids anime got dubbed and when it was that version would be edited and censored. Some companies would also put out a parallel uncensored release and if one was available, it would be subs only.
Even when you started to get older teen anime dubbed, the voice casting tended to be pretty bad.
Because it doesn't feel like extra work once you've gotten used to it, and it still feels like I'm watching a Japanese anime as intended by the original creators.
Someone once told me the dub for Mushoku Tensei was better than the sub. That person was a liar.
Also, that anime is incredibly weird.
Huh totally normal anime, with a pervert toddler. Mhhh hold on a minute.
I wouldn't say better but it is solid. Watching it dub with the wife and the dub isn't detracting from my experience.
with many anime shows, the english dubs have a lot of shit cut out. Especially if it's not one of the huge ones that everyone has heard of.
I prefer subs.
I have watched anime for quite some time now and started watching subbed, when I realized that the animes I liked were way ahead in the original version. Like a couple of hundred episodes for One Piece as an example. I got used to reading the subs in my peripheral vision. There may be some instances where I have to do a double take if there is an unusual word, but that's very rare. English isn't my first language, but english subs are more easily available. Outside of anime, I always choose the original version with subs as well because it feels more natural to me and I'm used to reading subs anyway. One good example is Sopranos, where the dub in my language doesn't have any Italian accent whatsoever. The great mafia atmosphere of the original gets totally lost that way.
That aside I totally get watching the dubbed version. Today in times of simul-dubs you don't have to wait for years at a time. You can watch dubs as background noise. The voice actors are usually great, even if not as consistently incredible as the originals. I always watch dubs with my family and friends, often shows or movies I already watched subbed. Watching something together for me isn't about the show alone but more about experiencing it together. Watching subbed would defeat that experience as you couldn't talk to each other as easily as with the dubbed version in your native language.
TLDR: alone I watch subs for the original experience, with others I watch dubs for the experience of watching together.
There's a reason why Japanese voice actors are treated like A-tier celebrities and 'murican anime voice actors are a bunch of nobodies. The chasm between their skill levels is too big.
American voice actors definitely get treated like stars and have fans. Source: Ive been to plenty of conventions. Also, another reason Japanese seiyuu are treated with such high praise is because many of them do other media, particularly music.
But seriously, American voice actors have fan groups. Anime and American animation voice actors, and video games actors. There's a lot of overlap there. There are very passionate fandoms.
One for every hundred VAs, maybe.
Many of the most celebrated seiyuu do nothing but voice acting.
Absolutely not true. There may be some, but seiyuu work is extremely hard. They work their asses off in a cutthroat competitive world doing many things on the side and making money from many more angles that just their voice acting.
How exactly tf do you know how good a voice actor is if you can't understand their language, accent, or inflections? Do you reckon maybe American voice actors aren't treated well has more to do with the elitist attitude weebs have regarding them than their skill levels?
I've heard that Japanese anime voice actors are seen on about the same level as we see American anime voice actors.
I understand all of those things, and I'm a second language speaker for both English and Japanese, so there's no favoritism there.
No, I don't. That's a fairly senseless hypothesis.
I read the subtitles for the "plot" after all 😅
And then you turn on dubs and it's all "And such as this and thus, as I have said so, and I declare in this moment."
You gotta find the right eye height.
you both it!
pov: too lazy to learn the language
I usually think less of a person when they say subs > dubs cause it's usually an elitist loser.
100% guaranteed weeb.
In jojo, the dub is 100 times better than the sub, especially pts 1-4
Yeah but then you don't get the real names of the stands
shining diamond > crazy diamond
To be fair, I watched subbed, and the sub still used the fake names
Stop watching anime and read a goddamn book
Stop doomscrolling lemmy and trying to post edgy comments.
Stop reading a book and go for a walk.
That's fair I think I'll do that
But I can't click a book.
Why do you think we care about your opinion?