Hygiene, manners, fitness, generally not being a creep.
"fitness"
Highly exaggerated by the masculinist movement, I know many people who aren't in good shape and never were that have a relationship/family life that most would envy
It doesn't hurt to be fit. You'll likely look better and it helps with your confidence.
When did I say it hurts to be fit?
The vast majority of the population doesn't go to the gym and their exercise consists of doing random physical activities around the house, going on walks or having a physically demanding job but a bunch of people with low self esteem got convinced by the internet that they're hopeless if they don't go to the gym... Oh and here, buy their product and treat women like shit while you're at it because it all goes together! That's what self esteem feels like bitches!
"It doesn't hurt to" is an idiom meaning it can be beneficial. It doesn't mean you were arguing that it hurts to be fit. I'm saying it's not necessary to be fit but it might still be worthwhile.
Seems like you're looking at these people as a monolith. Most of us treat the gym like a horticulturist treats their garden, it's therapeutic while also being beneficial. Sure there's the guys that follow all of the social media "gurus" but you can usually tell who they are by their gear and what they spend most of their time talking about.
9/10 times the guys with the most experience and general level of fitness are the ones that just wear old cut offs and go home to go drink a protein shake. The ones railing pre workout and listening to Andrew Tate aren't there for the right reasons so they generally never get anywhere with it.
You'll likely look better
True.
it helps with your confidence.
False.
I think it definitely anecdotally helps with confidence, but went searching and seems like at least some studies corroborate this common view, at least for self-esteem
I definitely agree the attempt at directly correlating gym plans to dating is often mis-played. But, there's solid advice out there about using basic fitness and exercise to combat depression and mood problems. Even if lifting iron won't do a whole lot for you, occasionally going out for a walk or riding on a bike/kayak/etc will often improve your attitude. And yeah, in the end being less depressed is probably good for dating - just not good to form the direct expectation.
I've seen lots of people get obsessed over their "fit" looks, and sometimes them going to the gym is both caused and made worse by more obsession with fitness.
Personally, it helped my confidence a lot and made me happier in my body to hit the gym. Seeing progress in something where you have to have grit and dedication usually does help people boost their confidence though, like learning an instrument or a new language, especially in children. Nothing as rewarding as meeting one's own goals, if you ask me.
People who aren't in good shape attract other people who aren't in good shape. There is someone for everyone. Well not really, but those people are content with each other.
I wouldn’t phrase it like that. More like, your standards for your partner shouldn’t be higher than your standards for yourself.
Tomato, tom-ah-to
You keep telling yourself that while we stay more open Skipper
Not really true and you realize that you can just not do exercise without being 400lbs right? Even in the periods where I wasn't into exercising my weight was stable around ~145lbs at 5'8", I just looked like a regular guy and dated plenty of beautiful women during that time.
People who aren't in good shape attract other people who aren't in good shape
Have you ever met a lesbian
Huh? What does that have to do with anything we're discussing here?
Clearly the answer is no.
As a woman I would like to add that the Fitness part is not true. Of course if you want to ask out a gym girl she will care about fitness, but also if you want to ask a "fashion" girl out she will care about fashion and so on. Know your target before putting effort in the wrong thing. I'm the type that cares zero about fitness.
Hygiene, manners and not being a creep is default tho. Please do that.
I am a lady and do care about fitness, not so much for looks but as a sign guys take reasonable care of their health. When younger, didn't care much. But now I am older and guys who are inactive fall apart, and become a lot of work. I know that there's no guarantee of health but much better odds of more healthy years if a guy takes care of his physical body.
Younger generations also need appropriate internet socialization for the social medias. Need to not live under a rock but also not go off the deep end of Insta or 4chan, respectively.
The finer details of making friends on a discord server befuddles me.
Isn't a discord like a curated list of people who you at least share an interest with?
The sketch with squigly lines here doesn't just represent hygiene. It shows how doomed he is
You see doom, I see a montage worthy makeover.
What song is playing in the montage?
Obviously the final countdown.
By default I was in fact thinking of “The Final Countdown”, but for this I’ll go for a slightly more wholesome approach. “Carry on Wayward Son”
Also being ok with rejection
But repeated rejection has an effect of reinforcing our undesirableness, and takes a toll on our self-esteem. How do people cope with this?
Friends, family, therapy.
Also if therapy is too expensive, group therapy, or just time
Why assume a rejection is because of you?
Why not assume they are having a bad day, they are just out of a previous relationship and they want a break, your just not their type (even if you had all the abs and a chiseled jaw and confidence they wouldn't be interested), what if they aren't into your gender, or what if they are in a committed relationship with their horse?
There are a lot of things that can cause it to be a no deal that are not your fault. If you feel like you did a good job asking, then it is probably one of the above.
Everyone who’s deflected N rejections and given life advice to others based on that, has not yet experienced N+1 rejections.
Was it bad advice, or are you just maudlin because you know I am right?
100% of women I tried getting with rejected me, surely this is because of me.
It's like ya'll motherfuckers need to memorize the serenity prayer.
"Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."
And yet every other comment on this post is "just have confidence; change how you act and look and you'll stop being rejected."
It's so silly to keep acting like attractiveness has zero to do with dating and likeability. Especially when there are permanent issues that are genetic or medical or whatever that go beyond "get a haircut and buy new clothes." American society is super judgemental in general when it comes to appearance and aging (especially toward women), and identity. It gets much worse in the dating scene, especially now that it's so frequently based on swiping left or right on a single photo and you're competing with filters. Yes, there's always the possibility of finding a group of people or a person that you fit in with, and you should always put work into finding that (if that's something you want - not everyone wants to be paired off) but let's stop throwing realism completely out the window ffs.
-- a woman
Things I cannot change:
My autism
My face
OK now what?
Now you hit on autistic people. Comes with the pro that they'll be more likely to find your infodumping socially acceptable or even enjoyable.
Sounds like he's figuring out the difference.
How many women are we talking about here? I got rejected by 40ish before I met my last girlfriend.
About 5.
That's a good start. Don't fear the man who suceeds the first time. Fear the man who has failed thousands of times.
It could be, which is why my comment "friends, family, therapy" is useful, I think. If you're noticing a pattern that's upsetting you that you think could be an issue, talk with your friends, family, and a therapist about it. It can be difficult to identify issues we bring to relationships. It also might not be anything to do with you, though, so that's where the support from others can prevent a bad pattern of beating ourselves up unnecessarily comes in.
Someone replied that therapy may be inaccessible, but now more than ever there are tons of sliding scale therapists, groups, etc that can meet in person or online, even for free. And honestly, I'm grappling with the issue myself that I need to prioritize my mental health and not let the monetary set back be an excuse. It's an investment that will pay off
Alcohol is magical. It lowers her standards and raises your confidence. ... I mean, alcohol is bad.
That circles back around to confidence
But being constantly rejected circles back to breaking down one's confidence.
If it's breaking down your confidence than you are not ok with rejection.
Is anyone truly ok with constant rejection?
No, no one is fully ok with it. This entire thread is like the emperor's new clothes or something.
Yeah, everyone here is like, "If you can't handle rejection, then you're WEAK and LACK CONFIDENCE! And you're the ONLY ONE! Everyone else in the world is strong & emotionally bulletproof except for YOU!"
🙄
People with healthy egos are able to register that someone does not want them as a romantic partner without having a crisis, yes.
I see I've upset some users today. This may seem like stating the obvious but clearly some people here need to hear it:
If you are emotionally devastated by rejection you likely do not have a healthy ego or self-image. This is the confidence part.
Assigning responsibility for fixing your self-image to a potential romantic partner is seeking external validation for an internal problem.
No amount of external validation will fix you. It will only feed the unhealthy expectations you're already acting on.
Confidence is the external display of a healthy self-image (overconfidence is another example of external display of an unhealthy self-image).
Potential partners can sense your desperation for validation and it is not an attractive personality trait. It's basically saying "I need you to do this emotional labor for me because I am not strong enough".
No one wants to do your emotional work for you.
Surely there exists a middle ground between being devastated by rejection and not registering continuous rejection as, perhaps, a sign that the rejectors have a point.
Emotional resilience is great, but if people keep giving you the same feedback maybe they have a point (and you should try changing, rather than brute forcing your way through social interactions, hoping to get lucky).
I'm not saying that you're denying this, so I am jumping over some discussion, but tbf I think we're both doing it.
I don't think this is your intent, but likely the reason people are annoyed by your comments is they come off as "have you tried NOT having emotional trauma?". You might not mean them that way, but that's how they read as an outsider to all this. Whether or not your strategy is a good one, dismissing people's emotional experiences is never going to win anyone over or change minds. If you'd like to help people gain confidence, I would encourage you to meet them where they are, not where you are.
"Trust me bro, you need to be confident bro, just work on yourself bro"
Always said by the 9/10 fit guy who never struggled with relationships. Same energy as "just stop being poor".
no it doesn't
Yesn't it does!
Fake it till you make it. Confidence still works, even if its faked
If romantic comedies have taught me anything, it's to never take "no" for an answer, and it's ok to stalk people because it will all just work out in the end when they realize what they've been missing this whole time.
Jeez I wonder if the prevalence of this trope could have overreaching social consequences
This is unironically how my grandparents met, did help that my grandfather was rather intelligent and decently competent. Shame he was a dumbass and gave himself lung cancer, wear a mask when working with aerosols it may save your life.
I love seeing how this crusty bastard devolves over time. I don't know that anyone can make him look any worse at this point.
This version gives me Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark with the OG illustrations that were deemed “too scary” for children
His forehead constitutes 50% of his face but is relatively clean. We need more scabbed over zits.
his eyes are still pretty decent
Wojack Rickety Cricket
There was an even worse version but it was pretty gory like actually fucking horrible
Some of it's also probably situation based.
If you hit on every single person of the gender that you like at one gym, they'll probably start to feel like you really just want just anyone who will say yes. They'll probably feel like you don't like them for them, and that you're just trying to keep your bed warm. Most people who want relationships want to be with someone who likes them individually as a person. Try not to write "scripts" for the situation in your head too much, either. If you do, it might crash and burn the second that someone goes off of that "script".
It's kind of tragic how all of this has become. A relationship likely won't fix any problems you might have with yourself, nor would it fix most of the other aspects of your life. A partner will also have their own needs and wants, and you should try to have room to provide some of that before you start dating.
Don't listen to guys like Tate. If he really had good advice, more people from his fan base would be in a happy relationship now, no? He makes money by making you continue to watch his videos. That's all he cares about. He's giving you bad advice so he can keep making money off of your sadness. That's not a bro thing to do.
Don't follow the plot of any rom-coms. That behaviour is usually a fantastic way to get a restraining order and absolutely ruin any chances you might have had with that person.
Find the little things that make you happy. Gardening? MTG? Video games? Hockey? Drawing? MMA? Take the time to properly enjoy those things that you love with the people who are already around you. It will help build some of that confidence. Let youself be passionate about your hobbies sometimes. It's ok, I promise.
Try not to worry too much if you mess up or if you ruin your chances with one person. There are over 8 billion people on earth, so there's almost always someone else you can try with. NO ONE succeeds 100% of the time, and that is more than OK. That is human.
Don't beat yourself up over not succeeding right away. Unless you are literally currently on your death bed, you still have time.
Outside of the dating stuff, be kind to youself, and try to make sure you're taking care of yourself. Self care isn't just fitness and healthy eating. Sometimes could be having pizza in the bath, sometimes it might be playing DnD over multiple continents, sometimes it might be watching cartoons, and sometimes it could even be something like skincare. Your happiness is important, and you should treat it as such.
As long as it doesn't harm anyone else in the process, please do what you need to do to feel happy. Life is too short to pause your happiness for someone who hasn't shown up yet. Life is too short to wait to improve things until you meet someone who hasn't shown up yet.
You deserve happiness, and the sooner you acknowledge that, the better. Find happiness despite what life might throw at you. Try to find joy even in chaos, and always remember that bad feelings usually don't last forever. You can get through these hard times.
Try not to write "scripts" for the situation in your head too much, either.
How else do you expect me to interact with people?
Take the time to properly enjoy those things that you love with the people who are already around you.
Who?
If you don't have anyone, then look for hobby groups. There's groups out there for almost any hobby, so you can get to know people through that. Doesn't even have to be in person, if the thought of meeting new people irl triggers your anxiety. And if you're bad at talking to people then you need to practice, fail and learn from your mistakes.
If you have the desire to improve, you'll manage. Just take it slow and don't force yourself to get into very uncomfortable or new situations right away. Like, for example, big parties.
Over time, you'll get better at improvising during conversations and you'll get more confident. And if there's people who try to shit on you for trying your best, don't worry. They're actually a lot more insecure then you'll ever be at that point.
There's groups out there for almost any hobby, so you can get to know people through that.
This advice only works for normal people. I've been going to the weightlifting gym and the bouldering gym at least twice a week for 3 years now, and I didn't meet anyone.
To be fair, I wouldn't necessarily consider the gym a place to meet people either. Most people there just do their thing and go home. 😅
If you really want to connect with people there you could ask someone to either spot you or ask them about something else related to the gym. Although I would consider that pretty advanced already. Sometimes a simple greeting whenever you're there or some small talk is enough practice for a while. Even if it's just the person at the reception or the person that you see there all the time. It helps.
Personally, I was forced to get good at talking to people through my job, but I used to get literal panic attacks before making phone calls. I still stutter from time to time, but only when I'm not focused (which is hard for me too lol). Also, therapy helps a lot for certain things, group therapy can be good too (also can be great for meeting new people).
I sometimes compare life in general to an Elder Scrolls game in my mind. You start out with shit stats, maybe some bonus stats. And then you have to work on each of those things to get them to a decent level so you can fend for yourself. If I achieve something difficult, I sometimes imagine myself leveling up. Sounds, pop-ups, the whole thing. 😁
Sorry for the wall of text btw, it happened so quickly lol.
No one at the bouldering gym? What country/state do you live in? I've been to two different bouldering gyms and got the impression that it's one place where people happily help each other or discuss techniques or challenge each other to go up walls. This, however, is my experience in northern Europe in a city where this is a somewhat common sport to play.
South of France. The gym is often crowded and people talk to each other, just not with me.
Are you trying/hoping to meet someone there?
Trying no, hoping yes.
Are there other bouldering gyms around, you might tey a smaller more neighborhood sized gym? Where I live there are a few, and I can't imagine making real friends at the big crowded ones, but I'm a little over a year in and have made lots of acquaintances at my smaller gym. Only have done something outside of the gym with one person though, and it was pretty low impact, just online gaming. It does feel like progress though.
As for a "script" I basically just introduce myself after I've seen someone a few times regularly, (Hey, I've seen ypu around a bunch at the same times as me, I'm Glemek.) or if a conversation happened naturally. Which usually starts with an offer for advice on a problem they are working, or generally commiserating about a difficult problem.
My gym can be crowded but usually is pretty sparse when I am there, but I basically just try to be friendly to everyone, be an encouraging presence at the gym, and see if there are people who would make sense to be potential outside the gym friends.
That's maybe the most helpful and positive thing I've seen on a shitpost. And honestly, I needed to hear some of that, so thank you.
I’ve followed this advice exactly for many years, and it lead me to a simple conclusion: These things that make me happy don’t connect in any way to relationship possibilities, and relationships will not make your life any happier. In short, dating is for chumps.
Perhaps a shower and a haircut wouldn’t hurt.
I'm having my weekly shower later today! 👍
I've seen way too many guys who think they're uglier than they are. Confidence and Comedy really are great ways to have a shot, even if you're faking the confidence. Its a tough lesson, but you DO need to sell yourself a little
I always joke that I snagged my wife by being funny. Then she laughs. Then I'm like "See!?" It's a great bit. She insists I'm handsome. I don't see it. The parts of me she compliments aren't even things I'm conscious of.
Yeah, exactly. Not only are a lot of men nowhere NEAR as ugly as they think they are, ugly is also subjective, and theres gonna be a partner who probably thinks you're physically hot
Confidence in yourself takes work. Confident people are confident because they loved themselves first and you take care of those you love
nah you start by faking it and being ironically confident until you trick yourself and it becomes second nature.
replace self deprecating humor with god complex humor until you believeeeee
yikes
I mean, 6 of one. If you feel better and aren't a total dick to everyone I think that's a win
Confident people are confident because they are handsome, therefore their advances work more often than not, leading to more confidence.
Confidence is not what makes someone attractive, it's the other way around.
True confidence is the assurance that who you are is good enough, not that you're perfect and need no improvement, but that if you're doing your best to respect other people that you deserve the same.
If your "confidence" changes based on how others treat you, then it's not truly self-esteem but rather pride and ego.
Why do some people "love themselves first" and some do not?
Because it's effort and not everybody is up to doing that work for one reason or another. We all have self doubt and it takes a lot to push past that sometimes
Sure real confidence does, but fake confidence is a good step on that path, and is better than none at all
You gotta show up for yourself before you're gonna get the girl my dude. Fix those open sores on your face and shave.
and I thought open source was a good thing...
And for the love of god, F(L)OSS.
and shave
Shaving is for losers. BEARDS rule!
Cartoon memes are starting to resemble actual art
It's all he needs. You on the other hand... had better be a trillionaire. :-P
Are we? I hate how everyone who struggles with relationships is instantly called an incel.
I wish there was a better way to distinguish between small-i incel (a life condition you'd like to change) and big-I Incel (a toxic social movement).
There's r/foreveralone. I don't know how the community evolved, but like 7 or so years ago it was basically what you described. People seeking comfort over feeling undateable and being scared of never finding anyone, but without the toxicity and hate that incels are known for.
Don't ask me how I know this.
(a life condition you’d like to change)
Incel ideology is defined by the "involuntary" (the "In" in "Incel"). So by definition, saying that something can be changed, implies it is not involuntary. And not a part of the ideology.
And because choosing to follow the ideology is a choice, there can be no such thing as a "small 'i'" incel.
Except it’s not exactly involuntary for them, is it? People who subscribe to that ideology are undateable because they become awful, toxic people, which can be changed.
Well, this meme is specifically promoting the notion that how attractive you look directly correlates to your ability to date people. When how you look is not the be all end all of dating.
This general concept of one's "biologically ordained appearance" being incompatible with finding love and relationships is closely tied with incel ideology. The "black pill" is generally used to denote that you're biologically and immutably so unattractive that you will never be able to "compete in the sexual marketplace." Felt gross just typing that. It's also attached to the conspiracy theory of "hypergamy," that you're so unattractive that even women of "comparable conventional attractiveness" won't ever date you.
The message of the meme, that someone is so unattractive they can not date anyone at all, is not explicitly incel ideology, but that notion is closely tied to it. In all likelihood this meme was made by someone in the incel community or who regularly consumes incel content.
this meme is specifically promoting the notion that how attractive you look directly correlates to your ability to date people
There are behavioral studies showing this to be completely true. As someone who is honest about how I probably wouldn't date an unattractive person, I freely admit this tracks; and, unlike incels, I absolutely don't blame either gender for this fact. It's just how our brains are wired.
Everyone’s idea of physical attraction will be different. There’s also people who don’t strongly have opinions about physical attraction as they do about personality attraction. And then you have intellectual attraction.
There are people out there single and happy regardless of their attractiveness and not even bothered with it. They aren’t even lonely. There are people where it’s not even their lifestyle. There are plenty of people who may not appear physically attractive to one person but are in happy relationships. So physical attraction is a red herring argument when it comes to describing what makes a person turn into an incel.
It’s about how an incel handles rejection and being alone. There’s much more to do with obsessiveness, loneliness, entitlement, anger transference and toxic thinking than it does with attraction in and of itself. The toxicity becomes more a self fulfilling prophecy.
Sure, people that can completely ignore physical appearance exist; it’s a bit of a straw man to say any claim is about 100.00% of people. The point is that appearance matters to a majority of people - and that it’s often the first attractor that even leads to any further discovery. Romantic comedies tend to put “opposites” into quirky unexpected circumstances that lead to that discovery, but that won’t happen for a lot of people.
But as to your second and third paragraphs, you are completely correct - and it may have been a missed expectation thinking I was arguing against that. People should be happy on their own. It might just be me thinking that the meme is originally pointed towards people expressing that relationships are something everyone should seek, because it has nothing to do with attractiveness - and that is what I consider untrue. But yes, people can still choose to be “ugly” (by mild comparison) and happy. Nothing totally excuses toxic behavior from people’s rejection.
ohh is there also a study defining exactly how ugly YOU are? or maybe you have some mental health issues and this is just more self deprecating talk?
that's the issue here, mother fuckers keep saying "study study study fact fact fact ugly ugly ugly" but that speaks nothing to their own situation. you can abuse facts and research, and I see it literally every day: depressed people cherry pick negative evidence to support their worldview that they are worthless
There are two good arguments here.
Biologically attractive people will be generally more successful at having casual sexual encounters. Whether or not this tracks to actually finding love or just finding sex is unsure. Furthermore, whether it has to do with "unattractive" people being less confident/more self-conscious is yet to be shown.
If you take care of yourself and actually go out and interact with women (and people in general), forcing yourself into uncomfortable social situations, eventually you'll get better at talking to people and talking to people is like 80% of dating.
Like many, I have not seen any success, or really attention (to share my social skills) in dating apps. That step is wholly decided by physical attractiveness.
I’d be happy to throw away any attempt at using those sites, but unfortunately much of the dating world has moved to them; and the people in relationships I do know generally used them.
What we know of those sites suggests the only men receiving attention on them are in the top 10% in terms of appearance. I’ve also anecdotally heard from women who admit to using the environment more for attention seeking behavior than actual relationships. I certainly wouldn’t call myself “ugly” for being in the bottom 90 percentile. I am okay with my appearance - I just know I’m not a perfect Adonis. I’m even okay with that behavior from the opposite gender - you can’t help what you like. Even if one of my friends was a granite-chinned gigachad, I wouldn’t fault him for just refusing to work through such a toxic environment - even if he has trouble finding such relationships elsewhere.
This is a complex situation not faulted to any one gender. The net effect, though, is that it’s not a good idea for anyone to date unless you’re blinded towards the survivorship bias you see from those that make it through, or are unconventionally attractive.
Online dating is not really the best snapshot of stability when it comes to people and relationships, or people who should be in relationships.
You run a high chance that there are scammers. That will immediately taint your findings.
depressed people cherry pick negative evidence to support their worldview that they are worthless
These people need help. It's not my problem or responsibility. It's THEIR responsibility.
The message of the meme, that someone is so unattractive they can not date anyone at all, is not explicitly incel ideology,
Hmmm, to me it read differenlty: that someone who is attractive doesn't understand the problems that come with being unattractive, and also it was funny how naively the guy in the bottom row asks "are you sure?".
I guess, like everything else in life, there's more than one way to read/interpret something.
Well, this meme is specifically promoting the notion that how attractive you look directly correlates to your ability to date people. When how you look is not the be all end all of dating.
How is that incel ideology? Incels hate women and think they are entitled to sexual relationships. This has nothing to do with believing dating potential directly correlates to physical attractiveness (which it does, at least for men).
If you wanna go ahead and read the rest of my comment I explain it lol
This is absolutely an incel meme. Incel ideology hinges on always placing the blame on something external (often women and genetics) for their problems, never their own actions. If someone were to blame themselves and take responsibility for their own situation, it would by definition not be Involuntary.
How so? Incels blame women for their failures. I blame myself.
I wasn't calling you an Incel.
I posted it to promote one thing and one thing only: giggles from the shitposting meme community.
I'm F30 (if that matters at all), I have a boyfriend, we live together in a stable and happy relationship, we're both social, have lots of friends and boardgames and beer, and occasionally take each other out on dates at nice restaurants. Neither of us is "unattractive" (whatever that means in this context, quite subjective I'd say), and we both laughed our ass off at this meme, it was funny, and gave my brain the giggles. Not everything like this is pushing incel ideology, and neither does anything else on my profile (feel free to check, I guess?).
PS: It's nice to see people giving each other advice for dating here... One funny thing about the meme is that that person in the bottom row might simply "view" themselves that way, or exaggerate the contrast between him and the guy in the upper row. All in all, some people got the laughs, others got nice advice, there was no intention to promote any kind of ideology, so I'd say it's been a good post.
One funny thing about the meme is that that person in the bottom row might simply "view" themselves that way, or exaggerate the contrast between him and the guy in the upper row.
YOU ARE SO CLOSE TO GETTING IT
no one on earth looks like the dude in the image but I see people everyday who genuinely believe that's what they look like and their life is doomed
you can see how someone who is exposed to that mentality regularly would be alarmed to see it appearing on here right?
So... Next time you want me to post it with a trigger warning? I didn't really feel like it needed one, being a meme and all.
And please stop taking to me like this, this patronizing tone is not called for.
I want you to post memes that aren't shitty, that's all. and I wanted there to be at least one comment calling this out for being shitty.
we can agree to disagree on this one. I can appreciate that you laugh at the funny face, but the message genuinely disgusts me.
I apologize for my tone. be well snek
In any case, thanks for pointing it out. Obviously people should be aware that it's a meme that has incel undertones and is likely made by an incel (I found it online and reposted it here... not really anywhere in specific, I think I was duckduckgo'ing something else and this popped up in the results, so not from 4chan or anything like that).
I can appreciate that you laugh at the funny face, but the message genuinely disgusts me.
I respect that. I understand that, if seen from the incel lens, this meme looks bad.
I want you to post memes that aren’t shitty
Sorry, sadly that's not something that I'll stop doing on Lemmy Shitpost.
I recommend you check out Ten Forward, where I post better memes... if you like Star Trek.
I apologize for my tone. be well snek
You too, TimewornTraveller, may you travel somewhere less cruel than our current era for some time and rest that weariness 😊
I'm not trying to diminish your experience, but it's called "dogwhistling" for a reason. You, being in a secure happy relationship, are unlikely to hear it. But a deeply insecure young man looking to externalize his shame absolutely will. He is the target, not you.
Right, thanks for pointing out that it would be dogwhistling if I had done it intentionally. I'm not taking it down though, seems like there is sufficient discussion in the comment section about this, plus people seem to think it's more funny than it's offensive.
Meme-style dogwhistling actually relies on unwitting "carrier" intermediaries to spread and normalize the ideology. You see the same technique a lot with anti-trans memes too ("I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter" is a common one that gets often repeated by non-transphobes).
By posting, upvoting and laughing, "normies" (emotionally secure people) play into the propagandists hands. A dogwhistle is not just the meme itself, but the entire social scenario around it. The real target of the whistle will see upvotes and laughter as reinforcement that the "unspoken ideas" espoused in it are true (there are a few in this thread).
“I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter” to me sounds like it makes fun of made up tumblr genders.
Anyway, I guess I don't see it the way you do. I think it's a lot of over analysis that turns people into censorship/word police. I don't prefer absolute censorship because it puts discussions to death. I'd rather this is out there and talked about rather than removed to be only in corners of the internet where these "incels" would gather alone, further removed from society.
If you think it's problematic, by all means do report it.
Again, this isn't just some arbitrary opinion I hold, it is actual Incel propaganda. You are welcome to spread it wherever you please, I just thought that you might want to be made aware.
Thanks for the details you provided though, it was informative and might affect the next time I post something like this (maybe I'll add some kind of disclaimer or something).
my issue isn't even the blame, it's the delusional self-deprecation
Well …it is in SHITposting…
why not just post swastikas then
It's Lemmy Shitpost, is it not?
again, why not just post swastikas then? if it doesn't mean anything and you don't stand by its message, what's the difference? it's all just white noise on shitpost right?
What the fuck are you taking about my dude
I guess saying anything that sniffs remotely as politically incorrect (whatever that is these days) leads us straight to swastikas lol
I mean if you posted a funny meme of hitler, would it not have a swastika on it?
And yes, this is Lemmy Shitpost. If you want classier shit I think you might want to look elsewhere.
Average mfr with a anime pfp arguing politics on unrelated topics
I'm just imagining this scene in a cartoon and it is kind of funny, if it were drawn literally as is.
Ok, listen. A great attitude (what the meme calls 'confidence') will definitely improve your chances. This doesn't detract from the fact that if you were to randomly ask a lot of people out, the vast majority of them would still say no because either they're not looking for a partner or you're not their type. The hard part is accepting that fact and continue trying without getting so emotionally exhausted that you no longer even want to try. Tinder makes this even worse, because it condenses dozens of rejections in a short amount of time, in a context that makes looks far more important than other worthwhile traits of yours.
Of course, having an ugly face, being poor and even having bad genetics will make things harder. But there are plenty of fat, ugly dudes and gals in happy relationships. If you see yourself in the meme, your worst enemy is not knowing how to get out of a pit of hurt and self-doubt, but it's an enemy you can beat.
Why the duck
Confidence is knowing that she's not The One.
Bottom panel reminds me of Joe mama
Who is Joe mama?
Deez nuts!
Gotem
people who unironically post this shit are usually not ugly, just lack self esteem and think self-deprecating humour is funny (usually isn't) and should listen to the advice and probably also learn that being rejected a lot is normal and it don't mean you're ugly to everyone unless you're an actual asshole to everyone.
Basically the contrast was hilarious and it seemed like a good shit post
Are we sure it's the contrast and not the hot gigachad that made you attracted to this meme?
Yeah. I think. I'm what you would call someone who posted it "ironically".
technically its confidence and hygiene.
Hygiene, manners, fitness, generally not being a creep.
"fitness"
Highly exaggerated by the masculinist movement, I know many people who aren't in good shape and never were that have a relationship/family life that most would envy
It doesn't hurt to be fit. You'll likely look better and it helps with your confidence.
When did I say it hurts to be fit?
The vast majority of the population doesn't go to the gym and their exercise consists of doing random physical activities around the house, going on walks or having a physically demanding job but a bunch of people with low self esteem got convinced by the internet that they're hopeless if they don't go to the gym... Oh and here, buy their product and treat women like shit while you're at it because it all goes together! That's what self esteem feels like bitches!
"It doesn't hurt to" is an idiom meaning it can be beneficial. It doesn't mean you were arguing that it hurts to be fit. I'm saying it's not necessary to be fit but it might still be worthwhile.
Seems like you're looking at these people as a monolith. Most of us treat the gym like a horticulturist treats their garden, it's therapeutic while also being beneficial. Sure there's the guys that follow all of the social media "gurus" but you can usually tell who they are by their gear and what they spend most of their time talking about.
9/10 times the guys with the most experience and general level of fitness are the ones that just wear old cut offs and go home to go drink a protein shake. The ones railing pre workout and listening to Andrew Tate aren't there for the right reasons so they generally never get anywhere with it.
True.
False.
I think it definitely anecdotally helps with confidence, but went searching and seems like at least some studies corroborate this common view, at least for self-esteem
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5068479/
I definitely agree the attempt at directly correlating gym plans to dating is often mis-played. But, there's solid advice out there about using basic fitness and exercise to combat depression and mood problems. Even if lifting iron won't do a whole lot for you, occasionally going out for a walk or riding on a bike/kayak/etc will often improve your attitude. And yeah, in the end being less depressed is probably good for dating - just not good to form the direct expectation.
I've seen lots of people get obsessed over their "fit" looks, and sometimes them going to the gym is both caused and made worse by more obsession with fitness.
Personally, it helped my confidence a lot and made me happier in my body to hit the gym. Seeing progress in something where you have to have grit and dedication usually does help people boost their confidence though, like learning an instrument or a new language, especially in children. Nothing as rewarding as meeting one's own goals, if you ask me.
People who aren't in good shape attract other people who aren't in good shape. There is someone for everyone. Well not really, but those people are content with each other.
I wouldn’t phrase it like that. More like, your standards for your partner shouldn’t be higher than your standards for yourself.
Tomato, tom-ah-to
You keep telling yourself that while we stay more open Skipper
Not really true and you realize that you can just not do exercise without being 400lbs right? Even in the periods where I wasn't into exercising my weight was stable around ~145lbs at 5'8", I just looked like a regular guy and dated plenty of beautiful women during that time.
Have you ever met a lesbian
Huh? What does that have to do with anything we're discussing here?
Clearly the answer is no.
As a woman I would like to add that the Fitness part is not true. Of course if you want to ask out a gym girl she will care about fitness, but also if you want to ask a "fashion" girl out she will care about fashion and so on. Know your target before putting effort in the wrong thing. I'm the type that cares zero about fitness.
Hygiene, manners and not being a creep is default tho. Please do that.
I am a lady and do care about fitness, not so much for looks but as a sign guys take reasonable care of their health. When younger, didn't care much. But now I am older and guys who are inactive fall apart, and become a lot of work. I know that there's no guarantee of health but much better odds of more healthy years if a guy takes care of his physical body.
Younger generations also need appropriate internet socialization for the social medias. Need to not live under a rock but also not go off the deep end of Insta or 4chan, respectively.
The finer details of making friends on a discord server befuddles me.
Isn't a discord like a curated list of people who you at least share an interest with?
The sketch with squigly lines here doesn't just represent hygiene. It shows how doomed he is
You see doom, I see a montage worthy makeover.
What song is playing in the montage?
Obviously the final countdown.
By default I was in fact thinking of “The Final Countdown”, but for this I’ll go for a slightly more wholesome approach. “Carry on Wayward Son”
Also being ok with rejection
But repeated rejection has an effect of reinforcing our undesirableness, and takes a toll on our self-esteem. How do people cope with this?
Friends, family, therapy.
Also if therapy is too expensive, group therapy, or just time
Why assume a rejection is because of you?
Why not assume they are having a bad day, they are just out of a previous relationship and they want a break, your just not their type (even if you had all the abs and a chiseled jaw and confidence they wouldn't be interested), what if they aren't into your gender, or what if they are in a committed relationship with their horse?
There are a lot of things that can cause it to be a no deal that are not your fault. If you feel like you did a good job asking, then it is probably one of the above.
Everyone who’s deflected N rejections and given life advice to others based on that, has not yet experienced N+1 rejections.
Was it bad advice, or are you just maudlin because you know I am right?
100% of women I tried getting with rejected me, surely this is because of me.
It's like ya'll motherfuckers need to memorize the serenity prayer.
"Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."
And yet every other comment on this post is "just have confidence; change how you act and look and you'll stop being rejected."
It's so silly to keep acting like attractiveness has zero to do with dating and likeability. Especially when there are permanent issues that are genetic or medical or whatever that go beyond "get a haircut and buy new clothes." American society is super judgemental in general when it comes to appearance and aging (especially toward women), and identity. It gets much worse in the dating scene, especially now that it's so frequently based on swiping left or right on a single photo and you're competing with filters. Yes, there's always the possibility of finding a group of people or a person that you fit in with, and you should always put work into finding that (if that's something you want - not everyone wants to be paired off) but let's stop throwing realism completely out the window ffs.
-- a woman
Things I cannot change:
OK now what?
Now you hit on autistic people. Comes with the pro that they'll be more likely to find your infodumping socially acceptable or even enjoyable.
Sounds like he's figuring out the difference.
How many women are we talking about here? I got rejected by 40ish before I met my last girlfriend.
About 5.
That's a good start. Don't fear the man who suceeds the first time. Fear the man who has failed thousands of times.
It could be, which is why my comment "friends, family, therapy" is useful, I think. If you're noticing a pattern that's upsetting you that you think could be an issue, talk with your friends, family, and a therapist about it. It can be difficult to identify issues we bring to relationships. It also might not be anything to do with you, though, so that's where the support from others can prevent a bad pattern of beating ourselves up unnecessarily comes in.
Someone replied that therapy may be inaccessible, but now more than ever there are tons of sliding scale therapists, groups, etc that can meet in person or online, even for free. And honestly, I'm grappling with the issue myself that I need to prioritize my mental health and not let the monetary set back be an excuse. It's an investment that will pay off
Alcohol!
Alcohol is magical. It lowers her standards and raises your confidence. ... I mean, alcohol is bad.
That circles back around to confidence
But being constantly rejected circles back to breaking down one's confidence.
If it's breaking down your confidence than you are not ok with rejection.
Is anyone truly ok with constant rejection?
No, no one is fully ok with it. This entire thread is like the emperor's new clothes or something.
Yeah, everyone here is like, "If you can't handle rejection, then you're WEAK and LACK CONFIDENCE! And you're the ONLY ONE! Everyone else in the world is strong & emotionally bulletproof except for YOU!"
🙄
People with healthy egos are able to register that someone does not want them as a romantic partner without having a crisis, yes.
I see I've upset some users today. This may seem like stating the obvious but clearly some people here need to hear it:
If you are emotionally devastated by rejection you likely do not have a healthy ego or self-image. This is the confidence part.
Assigning responsibility for fixing your self-image to a potential romantic partner is seeking external validation for an internal problem.
No amount of external validation will fix you. It will only feed the unhealthy expectations you're already acting on.
Confidence is the external display of a healthy self-image (overconfidence is another example of external display of an unhealthy self-image).
Potential partners can sense your desperation for validation and it is not an attractive personality trait. It's basically saying "I need you to do this emotional labor for me because I am not strong enough".
No one wants to do your emotional work for you.
Surely there exists a middle ground between being devastated by rejection and not registering continuous rejection as, perhaps, a sign that the rejectors have a point.
Emotional resilience is great, but if people keep giving you the same feedback maybe they have a point (and you should try changing, rather than brute forcing your way through social interactions, hoping to get lucky).
I'm not saying that you're denying this, so I am jumping over some discussion, but tbf I think we're both doing it.
I don't think this is your intent, but likely the reason people are annoyed by your comments is they come off as "have you tried NOT having emotional trauma?". You might not mean them that way, but that's how they read as an outsider to all this. Whether or not your strategy is a good one, dismissing people's emotional experiences is never going to win anyone over or change minds. If you'd like to help people gain confidence, I would encourage you to meet them where they are, not where you are.
"Trust me bro, you need to be confident bro, just work on yourself bro"
Always said by the 9/10 fit guy who never struggled with relationships. Same energy as "just stop being poor".
no it doesn't
Yesn't it does!
Fake it till you make it. Confidence still works, even if its faked
If romantic comedies have taught me anything, it's to never take "no" for an answer, and it's ok to stalk people because it will all just work out in the end when they realize what they've been missing this whole time.
Jeez I wonder if the prevalence of this trope could have overreaching social consequences
This is unironically how my grandparents met, did help that my grandfather was rather intelligent and decently competent. Shame he was a dumbass and gave himself lung cancer, wear a mask when working with aerosols it may save your life.
I love seeing how this crusty bastard devolves over time. I don't know that anyone can make him look any worse at this point.
This version gives me Scary Stories to Tell in the Dark with the OG illustrations that were deemed “too scary” for children
His forehead constitutes 50% of his face but is relatively clean. We need more scabbed over zits.
his eyes are still pretty decent
Wojack Rickety Cricket
There was an even worse version but it was pretty gory like actually fucking horrible
Some of it's also probably situation based.
If you hit on every single person of the gender that you like at one gym, they'll probably start to feel like you really just want just anyone who will say yes. They'll probably feel like you don't like them for them, and that you're just trying to keep your bed warm. Most people who want relationships want to be with someone who likes them individually as a person. Try not to write "scripts" for the situation in your head too much, either. If you do, it might crash and burn the second that someone goes off of that "script".
It's kind of tragic how all of this has become. A relationship likely won't fix any problems you might have with yourself, nor would it fix most of the other aspects of your life. A partner will also have their own needs and wants, and you should try to have room to provide some of that before you start dating.
Don't listen to guys like Tate. If he really had good advice, more people from his fan base would be in a happy relationship now, no? He makes money by making you continue to watch his videos. That's all he cares about. He's giving you bad advice so he can keep making money off of your sadness. That's not a bro thing to do.
Don't follow the plot of any rom-coms. That behaviour is usually a fantastic way to get a restraining order and absolutely ruin any chances you might have had with that person.
Find the little things that make you happy. Gardening? MTG? Video games? Hockey? Drawing? MMA? Take the time to properly enjoy those things that you love with the people who are already around you. It will help build some of that confidence. Let youself be passionate about your hobbies sometimes. It's ok, I promise.
Try not to worry too much if you mess up or if you ruin your chances with one person. There are over 8 billion people on earth, so there's almost always someone else you can try with. NO ONE succeeds 100% of the time, and that is more than OK. That is human.
Don't beat yourself up over not succeeding right away. Unless you are literally currently on your death bed, you still have time.
Outside of the dating stuff, be kind to youself, and try to make sure you're taking care of yourself. Self care isn't just fitness and healthy eating. Sometimes could be having pizza in the bath, sometimes it might be playing DnD over multiple continents, sometimes it might be watching cartoons, and sometimes it could even be something like skincare. Your happiness is important, and you should treat it as such.
As long as it doesn't harm anyone else in the process, please do what you need to do to feel happy. Life is too short to pause your happiness for someone who hasn't shown up yet. Life is too short to wait to improve things until you meet someone who hasn't shown up yet.
You deserve happiness, and the sooner you acknowledge that, the better. Find happiness despite what life might throw at you. Try to find joy even in chaos, and always remember that bad feelings usually don't last forever. You can get through these hard times.
How else do you expect me to interact with people?
Who?
If you don't have anyone, then look for hobby groups. There's groups out there for almost any hobby, so you can get to know people through that. Doesn't even have to be in person, if the thought of meeting new people irl triggers your anxiety. And if you're bad at talking to people then you need to practice, fail and learn from your mistakes.
If you have the desire to improve, you'll manage. Just take it slow and don't force yourself to get into very uncomfortable or new situations right away. Like, for example, big parties.
Over time, you'll get better at improvising during conversations and you'll get more confident. And if there's people who try to shit on you for trying your best, don't worry. They're actually a lot more insecure then you'll ever be at that point.
This advice only works for normal people. I've been going to the weightlifting gym and the bouldering gym at least twice a week for 3 years now, and I didn't meet anyone.
To be fair, I wouldn't necessarily consider the gym a place to meet people either. Most people there just do their thing and go home. 😅
If you really want to connect with people there you could ask someone to either spot you or ask them about something else related to the gym. Although I would consider that pretty advanced already. Sometimes a simple greeting whenever you're there or some small talk is enough practice for a while. Even if it's just the person at the reception or the person that you see there all the time. It helps.
Personally, I was forced to get good at talking to people through my job, but I used to get literal panic attacks before making phone calls. I still stutter from time to time, but only when I'm not focused (which is hard for me too lol). Also, therapy helps a lot for certain things, group therapy can be good too (also can be great for meeting new people).
I sometimes compare life in general to an Elder Scrolls game in my mind. You start out with shit stats, maybe some bonus stats. And then you have to work on each of those things to get them to a decent level so you can fend for yourself. If I achieve something difficult, I sometimes imagine myself leveling up. Sounds, pop-ups, the whole thing. 😁
Sorry for the wall of text btw, it happened so quickly lol.
No one at the bouldering gym? What country/state do you live in? I've been to two different bouldering gyms and got the impression that it's one place where people happily help each other or discuss techniques or challenge each other to go up walls. This, however, is my experience in northern Europe in a city where this is a somewhat common sport to play.
South of France. The gym is often crowded and people talk to each other, just not with me.
Are you trying/hoping to meet someone there?
Trying no, hoping yes.
Are there other bouldering gyms around, you might tey a smaller more neighborhood sized gym? Where I live there are a few, and I can't imagine making real friends at the big crowded ones, but I'm a little over a year in and have made lots of acquaintances at my smaller gym. Only have done something outside of the gym with one person though, and it was pretty low impact, just online gaming. It does feel like progress though.
As for a "script" I basically just introduce myself after I've seen someone a few times regularly, (Hey, I've seen ypu around a bunch at the same times as me, I'm Glemek.) or if a conversation happened naturally. Which usually starts with an offer for advice on a problem they are working, or generally commiserating about a difficult problem.
My gym can be crowded but usually is pretty sparse when I am there, but I basically just try to be friendly to everyone, be an encouraging presence at the gym, and see if there are people who would make sense to be potential outside the gym friends.
That's maybe the most helpful and positive thing I've seen on a shitpost. And honestly, I needed to hear some of that, so thank you.
I’ve followed this advice exactly for many years, and it lead me to a simple conclusion: These things that make me happy don’t connect in any way to relationship possibilities, and relationships will not make your life any happier. In short, dating is for chumps.
Perhaps a shower and a haircut wouldn’t hurt.
I'm having my weekly shower later today! 👍
I've seen way too many guys who think they're uglier than they are. Confidence and Comedy really are great ways to have a shot, even if you're faking the confidence. Its a tough lesson, but you DO need to sell yourself a little
I always joke that I snagged my wife by being funny. Then she laughs. Then I'm like "See!?" It's a great bit. She insists I'm handsome. I don't see it. The parts of me she compliments aren't even things I'm conscious of.
Yeah, exactly. Not only are a lot of men nowhere NEAR as ugly as they think they are, ugly is also subjective, and theres gonna be a partner who probably thinks you're physically hot
Confidence in yourself takes work. Confident people are confident because they loved themselves first and you take care of those you love
nah you start by faking it and being ironically confident until you trick yourself and it becomes second nature. replace self deprecating humor with god complex humor until you believeeeee
yikes
I mean, 6 of one. If you feel better and aren't a total dick to everyone I think that's a win
Confident people are confident because they are handsome, therefore their advances work more often than not, leading to more confidence.
Confidence is not what makes someone attractive, it's the other way around.
True confidence is the assurance that who you are is good enough, not that you're perfect and need no improvement, but that if you're doing your best to respect other people that you deserve the same.
If your "confidence" changes based on how others treat you, then it's not truly self-esteem but rather pride and ego.
Why do some people "love themselves first" and some do not?
Because it's effort and not everybody is up to doing that work for one reason or another. We all have self doubt and it takes a lot to push past that sometimes
Sure real confidence does, but fake confidence is a good step on that path, and is better than none at all
You gotta show up for yourself before you're gonna get the girl my dude. Fix those open sores on your face and shave.
and I thought open source was a good thing...
And for the love of god, F(L)OSS.
Shaving is for losers. BEARDS rule!
Cartoon memes are starting to resemble actual art
It's all he needs. You on the other hand... had better be a trillionaire. :-P
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAYcAdUKMts
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
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Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Lol this is hilarious!!!
That whole movie is an absolute gem
WHY ARE WE INCEL POSTING
Are we? I hate how everyone who struggles with relationships is instantly called an incel.
I wish there was a better way to distinguish between small-i incel (a life condition you'd like to change) and big-I Incel (a toxic social movement).
There's r/foreveralone. I don't know how the community evolved, but like 7 or so years ago it was basically what you described. People seeking comfort over feeling undateable and being scared of never finding anyone, but without the toxicity and hate that incels are known for.
Don't ask me how I know this.
Incel ideology is defined by the "involuntary" (the "In" in "Incel"). So by definition, saying that something can be changed, implies it is not involuntary. And not a part of the ideology.
And because choosing to follow the ideology is a choice, there can be no such thing as a "small 'i'" incel.
Except it’s not exactly involuntary for them, is it? People who subscribe to that ideology are undateable because they become awful, toxic people, which can be changed.
Well, this meme is specifically promoting the notion that how attractive you look directly correlates to your ability to date people. When how you look is not the be all end all of dating.
This general concept of one's "biologically ordained appearance" being incompatible with finding love and relationships is closely tied with incel ideology. The "black pill" is generally used to denote that you're biologically and immutably so unattractive that you will never be able to "compete in the sexual marketplace." Felt gross just typing that. It's also attached to the conspiracy theory of "hypergamy," that you're so unattractive that even women of "comparable conventional attractiveness" won't ever date you.
The message of the meme, that someone is so unattractive they can not date anyone at all, is not explicitly incel ideology, but that notion is closely tied to it. In all likelihood this meme was made by someone in the incel community or who regularly consumes incel content.
There are behavioral studies showing this to be completely true. As someone who is honest about how I probably wouldn't date an unattractive person, I freely admit this tracks; and, unlike incels, I absolutely don't blame either gender for this fact. It's just how our brains are wired.
Everyone’s idea of physical attraction will be different. There’s also people who don’t strongly have opinions about physical attraction as they do about personality attraction. And then you have intellectual attraction.
There are people out there single and happy regardless of their attractiveness and not even bothered with it. They aren’t even lonely. There are people where it’s not even their lifestyle. There are plenty of people who may not appear physically attractive to one person but are in happy relationships. So physical attraction is a red herring argument when it comes to describing what makes a person turn into an incel.
It’s about how an incel handles rejection and being alone. There’s much more to do with obsessiveness, loneliness, entitlement, anger transference and toxic thinking than it does with attraction in and of itself. The toxicity becomes more a self fulfilling prophecy.
Sure, people that can completely ignore physical appearance exist; it’s a bit of a straw man to say any claim is about 100.00% of people. The point is that appearance matters to a majority of people - and that it’s often the first attractor that even leads to any further discovery. Romantic comedies tend to put “opposites” into quirky unexpected circumstances that lead to that discovery, but that won’t happen for a lot of people.
But as to your second and third paragraphs, you are completely correct - and it may have been a missed expectation thinking I was arguing against that. People should be happy on their own. It might just be me thinking that the meme is originally pointed towards people expressing that relationships are something everyone should seek, because it has nothing to do with attractiveness - and that is what I consider untrue. But yes, people can still choose to be “ugly” (by mild comparison) and happy. Nothing totally excuses toxic behavior from people’s rejection.
ohh is there also a study defining exactly how ugly YOU are? or maybe you have some mental health issues and this is just more self deprecating talk?
that's the issue here, mother fuckers keep saying "study study study fact fact fact ugly ugly ugly" but that speaks nothing to their own situation. you can abuse facts and research, and I see it literally every day: depressed people cherry pick negative evidence to support their worldview that they are worthless
There are two good arguments here.
Biologically attractive people will be generally more successful at having casual sexual encounters. Whether or not this tracks to actually finding love or just finding sex is unsure. Furthermore, whether it has to do with "unattractive" people being less confident/more self-conscious is yet to be shown.
If you take care of yourself and actually go out and interact with women (and people in general), forcing yourself into uncomfortable social situations, eventually you'll get better at talking to people and talking to people is like 80% of dating.
Like many, I have not seen any success, or really attention (to share my social skills) in dating apps. That step is wholly decided by physical attractiveness.
I’d be happy to throw away any attempt at using those sites, but unfortunately much of the dating world has moved to them; and the people in relationships I do know generally used them.
What we know of those sites suggests the only men receiving attention on them are in the top 10% in terms of appearance. I’ve also anecdotally heard from women who admit to using the environment more for attention seeking behavior than actual relationships. I certainly wouldn’t call myself “ugly” for being in the bottom 90 percentile. I am okay with my appearance - I just know I’m not a perfect Adonis. I’m even okay with that behavior from the opposite gender - you can’t help what you like. Even if one of my friends was a granite-chinned gigachad, I wouldn’t fault him for just refusing to work through such a toxic environment - even if he has trouble finding such relationships elsewhere.
This is a complex situation not faulted to any one gender. The net effect, though, is that it’s not a good idea for anyone to date unless you’re blinded towards the survivorship bias you see from those that make it through, or are unconventionally attractive.
Online dating is not really the best snapshot of stability when it comes to people and relationships, or people who should be in relationships.
You run a high chance that there are scammers. That will immediately taint your findings.
These people need help. It's not my problem or responsibility. It's THEIR responsibility.
Hmmm, to me it read differenlty: that someone who is attractive doesn't understand the problems that come with being unattractive, and also it was funny how naively the guy in the bottom row asks "are you sure?".
I guess, like everything else in life, there's more than one way to read/interpret something.
How is that incel ideology? Incels hate women and think they are entitled to sexual relationships. This has nothing to do with believing dating potential directly correlates to physical attractiveness (which it does, at least for men).
If you wanna go ahead and read the rest of my comment I explain it lol
This is absolutely an incel meme. Incel ideology hinges on always placing the blame on something external (often women and genetics) for their problems, never their own actions. If someone were to blame themselves and take responsibility for their own situation, it would by definition not be Involuntary.
How so? Incels blame women for their failures. I blame myself.
I wasn't calling you an Incel.
I posted it to promote one thing and one thing only: giggles from the shitposting meme community.
I'm F30 (if that matters at all), I have a boyfriend, we live together in a stable and happy relationship, we're both social, have lots of friends and boardgames and beer, and occasionally take each other out on dates at nice restaurants. Neither of us is "unattractive" (whatever that means in this context, quite subjective I'd say), and we both laughed our ass off at this meme, it was funny, and gave my brain the giggles. Not everything like this is pushing incel ideology, and neither does anything else on my profile (feel free to check, I guess?).
PS: It's nice to see people giving each other advice for dating here... One funny thing about the meme is that that person in the bottom row might simply "view" themselves that way, or exaggerate the contrast between him and the guy in the upper row. All in all, some people got the laughs, others got nice advice, there was no intention to promote any kind of ideology, so I'd say it's been a good post.
YOU ARE SO CLOSE TO GETTING IT
no one on earth looks like the dude in the image but I see people everyday who genuinely believe that's what they look like and their life is doomed
you can see how someone who is exposed to that mentality regularly would be alarmed to see it appearing on here right?
So... Next time you want me to post it with a trigger warning? I didn't really feel like it needed one, being a meme and all.
And please stop taking to me like this, this patronizing tone is not called for.
I want you to post memes that aren't shitty, that's all. and I wanted there to be at least one comment calling this out for being shitty.
we can agree to disagree on this one. I can appreciate that you laugh at the funny face, but the message genuinely disgusts me.
I apologize for my tone. be well snek
In any case, thanks for pointing it out. Obviously people should be aware that it's a meme that has incel undertones and is likely made by an incel (I found it online and reposted it here... not really anywhere in specific, I think I was duckduckgo'ing something else and this popped up in the results, so not from 4chan or anything like that).
I respect that. I understand that, if seen from the incel lens, this meme looks bad.
Sorry, sadly that's not something that I'll stop doing on Lemmy Shitpost. I recommend you check out Ten Forward, where I post better memes... if you like Star Trek.
You too, TimewornTraveller, may you travel somewhere less cruel than our current era for some time and rest that weariness 😊
I'm not trying to diminish your experience, but it's called "dogwhistling" for a reason. You, being in a secure happy relationship, are unlikely to hear it. But a deeply insecure young man looking to externalize his shame absolutely will. He is the target, not you.
I know you didn't mean harm, and FWIW, this is not my opinion, it's a central tenant to Incel ideology. Here is the exact same "joke" on the Incels wiki.
Right, thanks for pointing out that it would be dogwhistling if I had done it intentionally. I'm not taking it down though, seems like there is sufficient discussion in the comment section about this, plus people seem to think it's more funny than it's offensive.
Meme-style dogwhistling actually relies on unwitting "carrier" intermediaries to spread and normalize the ideology. You see the same technique a lot with anti-trans memes too ("I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter" is a common one that gets often repeated by non-transphobes).
By posting, upvoting and laughing, "normies" (emotionally secure people) play into the propagandists hands. A dogwhistle is not just the meme itself, but the entire social scenario around it. The real target of the whistle will see upvotes and laughter as reinforcement that the "unspoken ideas" espoused in it are true (there are a few in this thread).
“I Sexually Identify as an Attack Helicopter” to me sounds like it makes fun of made up tumblr genders.
Anyway, I guess I don't see it the way you do. I think it's a lot of over analysis that turns people into censorship/word police. I don't prefer absolute censorship because it puts discussions to death. I'd rather this is out there and talked about rather than removed to be only in corners of the internet where these "incels" would gather alone, further removed from society.
If you think it's problematic, by all means do report it.
Again, this isn't just some arbitrary opinion I hold, it is actual Incel propaganda. You are welcome to spread it wherever you please, I just thought that you might want to be made aware.
Thanks for the details you provided though, it was informative and might affect the next time I post something like this (maybe I'll add some kind of disclaimer or something).
my issue isn't even the blame, it's the delusional self-deprecation
Well …it is in SHITposting…
why not just post swastikas then
It's Lemmy Shitpost, is it not?
again, why not just post swastikas then? if it doesn't mean anything and you don't stand by its message, what's the difference? it's all just white noise on shitpost right?
What the fuck are you taking about my dude
I guess saying anything that sniffs remotely as politically incorrect (whatever that is these days) leads us straight to swastikas lol
I mean if you posted a funny meme of hitler, would it not have a swastika on it?
And yes, this is Lemmy Shitpost. If you want classier shit I think you might want to look elsewhere.
Average mfr with a anime pfp arguing politics on unrelated topics
I'm just imagining this scene in a cartoon and it is kind of funny, if it were drawn literally as is.
Ok, listen. A great attitude (what the meme calls 'confidence') will definitely improve your chances. This doesn't detract from the fact that if you were to randomly ask a lot of people out, the vast majority of them would still say no because either they're not looking for a partner or you're not their type. The hard part is accepting that fact and continue trying without getting so emotionally exhausted that you no longer even want to try. Tinder makes this even worse, because it condenses dozens of rejections in a short amount of time, in a context that makes looks far more important than other worthwhile traits of yours.
Of course, having an ugly face, being poor and even having bad genetics will make things harder. But there are plenty of fat, ugly dudes and gals in happy relationships. If you see yourself in the meme, your worst enemy is not knowing how to get out of a pit of hurt and self-doubt, but it's an enemy you can beat.
Why the duck
Confidence is knowing that she's not The One.
Bottom panel reminds me of Joe mama
Who is Joe mama?
Deez nuts!
Gotem
people who unironically post this shit are usually not ugly, just lack self esteem and think self-deprecating humour is funny (usually isn't) and should listen to the advice and probably also learn that being rejected a lot is normal and it don't mean you're ugly to everyone unless you're an actual asshole to everyone.
Basically the contrast was hilarious and it seemed like a good shit post
Are we sure it's the contrast and not the hot gigachad that made you attracted to this meme?
Yeah. I think. I'm what you would call someone who posted it "ironically".