Putin’s much-feared ‘Satan 2’ nuclear missile failed 4 out of 5 tests

MicroWave@lemmy.world to World News@lemmy.world – 637 points – Putin's Much-Feared 'Satan 2' Nuclear Missile Failed 4 Out of 5 Tests
newsweek.com

Russian President Vladimir Putin has suffered an emabarassing setback as his feared Satan 2 nuclear arsenal failed four out of five missile tests, according to arms experts and satellite imagery from the launch site.

High-resolution satellite images of the launch pad at Russia's Plesetsk test site, where the RS-28 Sarmat intercontinental ballistic missile exploded, shows extensive damage.

A crater approximately 60 meters wide at the launch silo at the Plesetsk Cosmodrome in northern Russia, along with visible damage in the surrounding area that was not present in images taken earlier in the month.

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I’m sorry the hwhat?!

I know that a nuke would literally create a hell on earth but there’s no way you can name the fucking thing Satan and not be the bad guy.

They didn't. They named it "Sarmat".

NATO also had reporting names for Soviet weapons. IIRC surface-to-surface missiles start with "S". A few are rather...less-than complimentary, "Satan" -- the name used for the weapon that this replaces -- probably being the most so.

This missile doesn't have the reporting name "Satan 2" for NATO, though. The only link it has with the original surface-to-surface missile with the NATO reporting name "Satan" is that it's supposed to replace it and so Western media, which very much enjoyed mentioning "Satan" wherever possible, dubbed the new missile "Satan 2". But it's not an official name with NATO or Russia, just something that the media uses for the clicks.

The original missile:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-36_%28missile%29#R-36M

The new one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RS-28_Sarmat

No wonder the media is using Satan II. NATO hasn't given it one or is just referring to it by number. I'd do the same thing if I was reporting on it.

They gave it one. It's just not as evocative as "Satan":

 NATO reporting name: SS-X-29 or SS-X-30

Sounds like a Tesla model or one of Elon's kids.

NATO hasn’t given it one or is just referring to it by number.

I'm not surprised the media went with Satan II.

Sounds like NATO should name it “Stupid”

But really we should name all nuclear weapons Stupid anyway.

The Kremlin is probably happy to hear it called Satan. They're getting desperate and empty threats of global nuclear war are one of the only cards they have left.

Extremely angry at my military for naming it's unlimited genocide machine "Big Evil Monster" rather than "Widdle Fuzzy Bunny Wabbit".

Almost don't even want them to use it anymore.

Can just give it a simple code. We don’t need fun names for this stuff.

We actually need the fun names. The point is that barely-educated Private Joe in the military remembers what it is and how it looks like, and does not mix it up with other things if he sees it.

It's not a nickname, it's an official reporting name.

Everyone said I was daft to build missile in Russia, but I built it all the same, just to show them. It blew up on the launchpad. So I built a second one. That blew up on the launchpad. So I built a third. That burned down, fell over, then blew up on the launchpad. But the fourth one stayed airborne! And that's what you're going to get lad, the stupidest named missile in all of Russia

Who would have thought that simply robbing an entire nation and giving all the proceeds to your corrupt friends would lead to an inability to manufacture practically everything? TIL

And I bet the ones who had an issue with corruption tended to be more competent than those who were ok with it, biasing those who sent to gulags or slipped out of open windows towards those who could compensate for the corruption.

Try to copy Ukrainian missile from 58 years ago

Fail

Second greatest military in the world!

Second greatest military in the world

I think they might be second best in Russia by now lmfao

Third best after prigozhin.

Has Wagner done anything since Jeka's definitely not suspicious death?

I think I remember hearing in Jake Hanrahan's Popular Front podcast in an interview that they have all been absorbed into the regular army.

They were hunted down a couple of times by Ukrainian spec ops in Africa.

Try to copy Ukrainian missile from 58 years ago

When both Russia and Ukraine were part of the USSR?

Second greatest military in the world!

The USSR hasn't existed for >30 years, since then, Ukraine and Russia have done little but feed on its corpse. Does anyone honestly think modern Russia has a better military than China?

Ukraine has done a lot more to move forward then Russia ever has.

True the engineering were always done In Ukraine, Russia just got carried by the others nations

The USSR couldn't have achieved a fraction of what it did without all its SSRs working together.

Hell it probably wouldn't have survived getting invaded by every country with a military after WWI without both Russia and Ukraine.

And? I only said the Ukraine has been doing more to increase the quality of life for its citizens then Russia.

Also, it's a pretty bold claim to say that EVERY nation with a military has tried to invade. I'd like to see a list of that.

it’s a pretty bold claim to say that EVERY nation with a military has tried to invade

It's only the slightest exaggeration..

Between 1915 and 1920, they were invaded by: United Kingdom, France, US, Japan, Italy, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Greece, Serbia, Romania, China, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, The Ottoman Empire, and I'm sure I missed a few more.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Russia_intervention

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Russia_intervention

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_intervention

Czechoslovakia certainly didn't invade in the traditional sense, because:

  • The troops were there before the bolshevik revolution with the agreement of the Russian government and on the way out of Russia when they were attacked.
  • Czechoslovakia didn't exist yet.

Between 1915 and 1920

Not at all relevant to any current events.

The point was that it's silly to try to divide up and assign individual responsibility for the achievements of the USSR 30-100+ years ago when those achievements were only possible because Ukraine and Russia were part of a greater whole.

Considering what has become of Russia and Ukraine since the fall of the USSR, I'd say that Ukraine was just getting sucked dry by the elites in Moscow while they were a part of it.

It's kinda wild to claim that the US invaded Russia when they literally only sent one contigent of troops. That's like saying Canada invaded Afghanistan.

Canada did invade Afghanistan though?

Ig technically, but it was really the US that invaded Afghanistan. Considering their allies that sent significantly smaller forces and did not make the decision to start the military activity as fellow invaders is disingenuous at best.

In what way is it disingenuous to frame Canada sending thousands of soldiers to a foreign nation to carry out a war as an invasion?

.ml moment

No, the .ml moment would be something like "don't believe your lying CIA eyes, all the non-Western nations are working together in beautiful anti-imperialist harmony and very competent".

This seems like a normal take from someone who happens to be on .ml.

Most propaganda isn't that obvious. It often seems normal and a lot of it is actually based on the truth.

Internet "anti-imperialists" wish they were getting paid, which is what propaganda implies. In reality, it's Qanon but gay-friendly.

I expected a .ml to show up huffing copium when I saw this thread, wasn't disappointed. So predictable.

It's copium to acknowledge that Ukraine and Russia were part of the same country 58 years ago, and that modern Russia and Ukraine are able to achieve far less than the USSR was? This is evidenced by both countries primarily fighting with 30+ year old weapons.

I guess basic historical literacy is tankie shit now.

Good point. Failing to copy your own missile would be even worse, though.

Does anyone honestly think modern Russia has a better military than China?

A good number of people did until early 2022. It looked a lot better on paper.

A good number of people did until early 2022. It looked a lot better on paper.

You are technically correct, the best kind of correct.

I mean the jokes comes from somewhere.

To try to be less technical, I'd go as far as saying it was a double-digit percentage of public commenters. I remember because I was there thinking how dumb that is.

A good number of people did until early 2022. It looked a lot better on paper.

Did it? I remember a ton of propaganda about Putin and Russia going back to the Obama era, but then they'd show off stuff the USSR had developed to fight a war in Germany/Ukraine against late 1900s American equipment and tactics.

Whereas China was showing off their modern fighters, tank and ship production, and an entire branch of the military dedicated to missiles, and greater numbers than any other military, all designed to fight their next war; defending against/driving the US out of it's back yard.

If you're talking about the whole "human wave" thing in WWII, the ex-Nazis made that up for their memoirs. The old AskHistorians subreddit went into it once; basically the USSR fought the same way everyone else did.

I think the smart money was still on China post 2010 or so, but there was actual debate. They had a lot of old weapon stocks, and a still respectable population, if not as huge as China's.

If you’re talking about the whole “human wave” thing in WWII, the ex-Nazis made that up for their memoirs.

Ironically, there actual cases of human-wave like attacks in WWII, notably banzai charges by Japan and MacArthur's Walking Fire.

Walking Fire is new to me. It sounds like it's pretty much an older term for suppressive fire during an advance, from a quick search. Do you have an example of it leading to massive attrition like that?

The Japanese liked to do it as a last resort sometimes, that's definitely true, and it was the plan if the home islands were invaded. In practice, I have no idea what proportion of those civilians drilling with melee weapons would have been dumb enough to try it IRL, though.

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Really hard to adhere to quality if money is being pocketed at every corner and then spend outside the hellhole you created.

I'm sorry, the what missile? I know there's already "hellfire" missiles, but proclaiming a sequel to Lucifer Morningstar seems a bit silly.

It's just the NATO designation. Official name is Sarmat.

It is not the NATO reporting name, as I detail in my comment. That's associated with an older missile.

The SS 18 MIRV missile (and later versions) right?

Russia used to have some of the most advanced rocket science labs and physics programs in the world.

This is a truly sorry state of affairs for a country that has been strip mined from within.

Ukraine built a lot of it.

They're also not looking so hot right now

I have to disagree. Ukraine is getting hurt, but they're pretty successfully fighting off Russia. They sank a lot of Russia's Black Sea fleet despite not having their own, caused nuclear-sized explosions in Russia, destroyed hundreds and hundreds of military jets and helicopters, took out several fucking AWACS, destroyed tens of thousands of armored Russian vehicles, killed hundreds of thousands of troops invading their home, developed very successful new weapons systems, held Russian territory for over a month.

The Kremlin has dragged the Russian economy into the dirt and the only "help" they'll get after their barbaric land grab fails is one-sided deals with the CCP and India. Meanwhile, Ukraine has already received many billions of dollars worth of support from many different countries, and is on a path to membership in maybe the most valuable economic bloc on the planet.

Ukraine is getting beat up, but Russia is being destroyed.

The Kremlin has dragged the Russian economy into the dirt and the only “help” they’ll get after their barbaric land grab fails is one-sided deals with the CCP and India.

Seems like they've been doing a brisk and lucrative trade in fossil fuels with those two, plus Korea and Japan and Turkey. But that's what is driving a sharp divide between eastern and western bloc nations. Definitely witnessing a reconfiguration, with Russia looking more like China's Canada. But its deeply naive to believe Russian oligarchs aren't profiting handsomely from the exchange.

Ukraine is getting beat up, but Russia is being destroyed.

The folks insisting that China is going to waltz in and claim Russia seem blissfully ignorant to mass privatization of Ukrainian public lands and capital. Ukraine is being balkinized in real time.

Their economy is growing while Russia is shrinking, and Russia started all of that

ok slightly unrelated but the satellite pictures have an insane resolution for having been taken from, you know, space

The pics

Just imagine what the government has if that's what's available commercially to the public

We know from Trump's heedless shitposting that they can get the theoretical maximum resolution out of whatever aperture they have. For the US ones with the Hubble-clone mirrors that means not quite enough to recognise a face.

The heedless shitposting for those who don't remember: https://www.npr.org/2022/11/18/1137474748/trump-tweeted-an-image-from-a-spy-satellite-declassified-document-shows

still scary AF

IMO it's one of the least worst forms of surveillance. Keyhole 69420 might be able to see you're outside, but the NSA sees everything you put in Google, especially the embarrassing things.

for one thing, it's mostly just lensing, and for another, it's also partially due to the atmosphere of the earth actually working in tandem with the lensing of the satellites themselves. Dont ask me how it works but from what i understand, seeing out from earth is harder, but seeing in from space is easy. Something to do with the way that light refraction in the atmosphere works or something.

the weirdest thing about telescopes (essentially what these are), is that you can just put a hole in them, and they'll still work just fine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harlan_J._Smith_Telescope#Vandalism_damage

It only needs to work once.

Not so sure. What if these 4/5 nukes explode on the launch pad? Even if this is in a remote area you'll cause some damage to your own country.

Based on the little bit I know about both Russian military history and the stuff they do now, I suspect they'd be okay with that.

They aren't even shooting Ukraine nuclear plants afraid of retaliation from NATO, nuclear is even worse

Most nukes are designed such that they only create a nuclear blast when detonated electronically.

We've had nukes fall out of airplanes and explode, or nuclear-tipped missiles explode in the silo, without a nuclear blast.

All of those happened before the modern safeguards were adopted by the US. We're lucky none of them went super-critical. We just don't know for sure if the Soviet leftovers Russia has were upgraded to the same atandards.

All of those happened before the modern safeguards were adopted by the US.

Which modern safeguards are you talking about? There's been ~32 official broken arrow incidents between 1950 and 1980, and multiple safeguards were tried during that period. Modern 2 point detonation safety goes back to the early 60s

We just don’t know for sure if the Soviet leftovers Russia has were upgraded to the same atandards.

We do know the soviets had their own share of accidents. I wasn't able to find any info on soviet nuclear weapon design safety mechanisms, but I feel like we'd have seen at least one nuclear blast if they didn't have them.

Yeah, this is the wildest headline. "Don't fear it, it only works 20% of the time!" Both the US and Russia have somewhere around 1700 known deployed nuclear warheads able to be launched from air, land, and sea. 20% is still 340 nuclear bombs, all of which are substantially larger than the ones dropped in Japan.

The fucking audacity to downplay nuclear war.

Nobody is going to put radioactive material on the top of something that explodes in the home country. Pelting that much hazardous material into the atmosphere will be a very bad outcome.

Check the username, he's an ml.

He just wants you to understand we have no hope of standing against the might of a resurgent Russia and China and should surrender for better terms before his tankie friends can come in and make an example of you.

I signed up on ml because lemmy.world gave me an infinite spinner when I tried to post and ml was the second one I saw and figured it didn't matter. I think living in Russia or China would be awful and think Ukraine is a victim of Russia's terrible aggression. That doesn't mean I can't be anti nuclear war.

And last year you could have also said "nobody is going to threaten nuclear escalation with all of NATO at once" and I'd have believed it, but look where we are

Most nukes are designed such that they only create a nuclear explosion if they're detonated electrically.

The US has reported dropping or misplacing like a dozen nukes before they stopped reporting them. Typically they'd just send people out to see if they can find the core, and if not, just say "guess if we can't, nobody else will find it"

If the rocket explosion can create a 60 meters wide crater, my guess is it can still at least crack open the fission part and spill the material in the atmosphere.

American nukes... We're talking Russian engineering here. I don't want to give them any benefit of doubt considering some of the janky shit they have tried rolling out in this war.

I'm talking of an effect like a dirty bomb, not thermonuclear detonation.

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Satan 2? What is this high school missile competition?

Almost. It's NATO propaganda.

I'm always curious about anti-NATO people. What is it about NATO that you don't like? I'm not very familiar with exactly what they do, but my understanding is that they are a defensive organization. They wouldn't exist if it weren't for Russia's expansionist goals.

Maybe I'm misinformed. Why the NATO hate?

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is russia testing nuclear arms again?

US tested a Minuteman III missile out of Vandenberg earlier this year. It was not carrying a nuclear payload. It's fairly common for countries to test missiles. Some countries broadcast their intent publicly so as not to accidentally trigger a retaliatory launch. Others don't broadcast publicly, but they do communicate via the good-old-boy net for the same reason.

Hey Russia, we're launching a nuke missle with the nuke removed in your direction. Just testing we swear!

This may be off topic, but I absolutely loved reading about Minuteman III guidance system.

And unlike all those "missiles by subscription and good behavior" that many big countries sell to smaller countries, it doesn't rely on any satellite system or external corrections after launch.

BTW, I wonder what's inside Russian ICBMs. People often say that all the Russian big cool projects in defense after breakup of the USSR are just finished Soviet projects. If that is true, there must be an awfully complex, but geek-porn-ish thing inside, possibly with analog and maybe even mechanical elements. If that is not, it's still interesting. Right now yes, Russian military engineering relies on many foreign (NATO countries produced in fact) components. But that didn't become a thing immediately, so I wonder how did they solve problems.

So, basically their post-soviet tech is all unfinished Soviet designs the soviets could never get to work, with a few western chips thrown in to do the math and control they could never manage.

the soviets could never get to work

No, just what was in progress.

"A few western chips" for military grade applications would be not too easy to get for some time, and USSR and then Russia could produce them, and the process of plants producing such closing was very slow and lasted till late 00s. It's not the difference between a project stalling and moving further.

It's the most recent stuff we hear about relying on Western components.

to do the math and control they could never manage

USSR with all its shortcomings did have functional nuclear shield, a space station, domestically produced computers (clones of Western things, yes, but that was a strategic decision, a stupid one though), a space shuttle analog that was arguably better. So "never manage" is usually not the reason for its failures. Economic inefficiency and administrative rot are.

Sort of. The ICBM rocket delivery system.

The US is developing a new ICBM as well.

ok so they're not "testing nuclear payloads" then. That's good to know. I was confused as to what they meant with the title.

If they ever do test nuclear payloads, thats going to be a nightmare.

The US at least regularly tests its missiles. They shoot from California toward a Pacific island into a painted target.

Modern ICBMs are insanely accurate.

Ya but not with a nuclear nomb just a dummy payload.

yeah, that was why i asked about, testing missiles is not weird at all. Testing nuclear bombs would be very weird.

Nukes are tested on super computers since the treaty band.

Except for North Korea while it was catching up.

that's the general strat, but nothing competes with real world testing fortunately for us, having tested thousands of nukes over the years.

I heard the success one got 35 kilometres, anyone can confirm?

The perfect range to nuke their own city and claim Ukraine did it.

Didn't Ukraine give up it's nuclear armaments by treaty with Russia in exchange for Russia acknowledging its sovereignty?

A treaty that died the moment Russian tanks crossed the border.

Not saying Ukraine have nukes, nor that they should have them, but if they did, they wouldn't be in violation of that particular treaty.

the moment russian tanks crossed the border.

For clarity, that moment occurred in 2014.

for a ballistic missile 35 km is pretty ass. I think even ATACMs gets pretty close to this, upwards of like (edit 300km, i think i'm thinking of gmlrs lol) And that's just a missile.

Ballistic missiles should really be able to go intercontinental, that was kind of the point of them.

for a ballistic missile 35 km is pretty ass.

Extremely ass.

Howitzers can shoot like 30km.

edit this cannon can do 41 km https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/155_GH_52_APU

edit2 we in Finland have like 700 howitzers and 56 of those linked cannons, plus tons of heavy mortars etc etc

ATACMS can go 300 km.

good call, i think i was confusing it with gmlrs for a second, though it's also worth noting for a while the export variants had limited ranges, due to the US concerns over ukraine stuffing this shit straight into moscow.

Not anymore though.

How many kilometers is one stick of dynamite? By one stick, I mean like the size of a soda's height with a diameter equal or Greater than an A in chemistry. The internal composition being 37.3 grains and the .3 grain was cut and licked properly....so yeah, how many kilometers would that be?

Why would you make up your own metric? 1 stick and 1/2 stick are literal measurements.

It can carry multiple warheads, including nuclear ones, with estimates suggesting it can deliver up to 10–15 independently targetable reentry vehicles (MIRVs).

Oh good, if only one single missile in Russia's entire arsenal goes off, we'd only loose 10-15 cities.

MIRVs have been a thing for like 50 years.

The US even took them out of submarine launched missiles, because they made the soviets so nervous we had to promise that we couldn’t delete half of their country in 15 minutes.

But don’t worry, nuclear war happens so fast, and diplomatic channels are so slow, if anyone launches anything, everyone is practically forced to launch everything or risk losing it. So even if Russia did just launch one to destroy 10-15 cities, all of the cities everywhere would be destroyed anyway.

If you ever look up at the sky and see 5-10 diagonal lines almost in parallel... well, if you have a firearm nearby, that would be a good time to self-exit for sure.

Please don't shoot yourself if 5-10 planes just happen to fly parallel

Shit. We just had an airshow here and I was about to look for my ticket for self exit. Thanks for the heads up.

“Tragedy at the air show today…”

I live right next to one of the largest airports in the world.

I see 5-10 parallel lines in the sky multiple times a day.

I also live next to one of the largest airports in the world, which is a few miles from a national guard base located right outside one of the largest cities in America.

I’m probably in the fireball radius of a nuke, assuming the Russians haven’t been embezzling their government money and are still fueling their hydrogen bombs, so if the big red button gets pushed, I’ll just get vaporized about half an hour later.

Don’t shoot yourself just because you see lines in the sky. You’re either close enough to civilization for planes to make lines in the sky, in which case the bombs will probably get you anyway, or you’re so far out in the sticks that you’ll have plenty of time to make a decision.

The good thing is that Cern will sending them a bunch of great scientists soon. They should figure out how to make the other failures go!

Right? Or in the US not smart enough to go get all those scientists and give them a grant each to go save the south African penguin?

Last time, they invented modern rocketry and turbojets. So, you know, can't let that happen.

They already invented it before, ahem, "leaving" though.

Ah yes, the moral military, the anti nazi military, the apparent good guys, according to tankies, use a weapon called the fucking SATAN

RS-28 Sarmat is the russian name, satan is what nato nicknamed it.

Well, you can't pin that on Russia though. Their name for it is "Сармат". (Samaritan). The name Satan 2 comes from the predecessor R-36 missile, NATO nickname "SS-18 Satan".