That’s a weird way of bragging about understaffing leading to overwork, but I guess it explains why they can’t kick those quality issues.
Statements like that are just going to make it easier for the UAW to unionise those plants. Union factory workers don't sleep on the floor.
That does make a compelling campaign slogan. While I assume Musk's statement should not be taken literally, IIRC he made similar statements about Twitter. Shortly after, there were countless reports of how awful it suddenly became to work at Twitter.
You're actually right, this would look great on a poster. I hadn't even considered that, it was just a statement of fact.
Spoiler: it won't be $25,000.
I do t think musk will get his 25 either
In related news, Musk gave Tesla an ultimatum earlier this month: increase his ownership in the company to 25% or he will cut back on its development of AI and robotics The billionaire already owns 13% of the EV giant, or approximately 411 million shares. However, it seems he won't be happy unless he's awarded another 12%.
Another ridiculous thing, the article says this new model might comes without steering wheel or pedals...
.his self driving is no where near ready for that, especially since he cheaps out and uses cameras on high end models, the cheap one is going to have even worse cameras instead of the lidar they should all have
Give me more of the company or I'll destroy the company
...or I'll continue to destroy the company
That's a vehicle that won't sell in Europe then lmao
Musk is shook over that earnings report. His house of cards is falling down and he doesn't have enough rockets to keep it up. Tesla, Boring, Twitter -- all failing.
This guy has never been able to hit his MSRP goals.
That said, if he can’t ship a crossover for $35k, Volvo-Polestar will eat his lunch with the ex30. And like Telsa, Volvo has markup-free
/ commission-free purchase options. I got my last Volvo for MSRP. Ordered online with no BS.
If it weren’t for the whole everything-controlled-via-infotainment-screen thing, the EX30 would be on the short list for my next vehicle, but that’s a dealbreaker. I’m still rooting for Volvo, at least as much as I’d “root” for a company.
And it won't go into production next year. But workers will still be treated like shit.
I bet they're taking pre-orders with a deposit though
I'll be really surprised if he makes that date.
Because fuck family time ... This dude wants slaves. He can get fucked
Old habits die hard
Where do you think his seed money came from?
Why do you think he wants to get to mars quickly
It's only a matter of time before one of the mega-corps figures out how to lease prisoners as cheap and expendable workers.
“Our culture also glorifies and rewards successful leaders who may lie somewhere on the spectrum of psychopathy or who, if not actually psychopathic, nevertheless display traits that psychopathic individuals frequently have. The problem, of course, is that while psychopaths may have a lot of charisma and creativity, they may also lack, as already mentioned, socially important qualities such as empathy and morality.”
Yup. Sadly, having broken moral compass and lacking empathy can be obscenely profitable in the right circles. I honestly think that's all that is propping these guys up anymore.
Damn, he's admitting his company is so close to collapse that everyone will have to literally sleep on the floor there just to try to save the business?
Bold move.
It worked for Twitter, right…. Right…?
Man i don't wanna buy a car made by people who aren't sleeping in a bed. Come on, now.
Tesla's quality control is already shit.
Imagine how much worse it could get if the workers are even more sleep deprived.
Saying we expect our employees to act as slaves, weird flex there Space Karen.
Wasn't the model 3 supposed to be the affordable version
Is $25k affordable? How much are cars? 25k sounds like a fuckload of money.
For a new car? $25k is a pretty low price, at least in the US. My car was $24k new 10 years ago. It wasn't particularly special then.
Supposedly my 2016 Corolla was 25k I think. But after all the fees and taxes and shit I feel like it was closer to 30k. All I know for real was that it was about $10/day for 7 years.
*Canadian $
$25K for a full electric car is the lowest price ever in the U.S.
I paid $21K for a used gasoline Honda Civic coupe just 2 years ago.
Some people pay like $60-80k for those big trucks you see
I live in a shitty neighborhood. The amount of Audi, bmw, Porsche SUVs is crazy.
The trick is, luxury cars drop in value insanely fast. A 2 year old Audi is often about the same price as a new Honda. The problem these people don't account for is maintenance costs. They think they are getting a deal, then they are getting dragged down by an unreliable vehicle that they can't afford to fix.
They think they are getting a deal, then they are getting dragged down by an unreliable vehicle that they can't afford to fix.
If memory serves, the outliers here are Lexus and Audi which both score high on reliability ratings. I could be wrong though, is been a couple of years since I looked into owning a car.
True, Lexus is a Toyota brand, and at least historically shared a lot of parts with Toyota cars, so maintenance wasn't always crazy. In the case of Audi, they might be quite reliable, but I know repairs/maintenance, when needed, is very expensive.
Lexus is probably highly reliable but Audi's have the same problem as other German makes- tons of cheap plastic under the hood that disintegrates at around the 5 year mark. There are lots of YouTube videos about it.
Yeah I've been keeping an eye on old beaters just to drop my kids to school and a 20yo Volvo SUV is as cheap as a 20yo Mazda.
Big bucks for big trucks?
$25k is actually very affordable for what new cars go for. That was deemed affordable 10 years ago, so hitting that price point today is an even bigger deal.
How much do you think a new car costs?
about as much as a banana, Michael
So, what, I don't know, $10?
Go see a Star War.
Affordable? No, not to many people's finances
Relatively cheap for a new car? Unfortunately
A tough combination in a country where having a car is essentially mandatory in all but a few cities
USD25K would buy you a sports spec Hyundai hatch, or a low spec 2wd SUV in Australia.
Sounds like a shitty boss. Also, I think OHSA is gonna have a field day with this.
Once the courts are done with federal agencies Deals won't have to worry about OSHA.
Anyone qualified to work on his production line can work on another. Or many many other mechanical/production roles.
I question anyone who would work those hours, sleep in the facility, accept the oats, and still whine.
The problem is who is hiring. Tesla's factory is the only big factory in an area where there are not other big car factories. Good luck finding another job in the area of Fremont.
Understood, but I'm saying ultimately these are skilled, desirable workers who should be seeking new opportunities NOW
Tesla already has the highest accident risk, are they trying to increase their lead?
Who is this message even for? Not the workers obviously.
Does it instill the investors with confidence? "Production is so poorly managed and staffed that we have to rely on people working overtime."
Does it increase demand? "Come buy these vehicles assembled by overworked, sleep-deprived line workers, hope it works out if you get in an wreck!"
It's entirely for his own ego.
Welp. It's time for Tesla workers to unionize, and hard
Won't happen in Texas. There are so many people in this state convinced that unions are a horrible evil. Then they complain about how their job mistreats them, doesn't pay them enough, etc, etc, etc. You know, all the problems a union fixes. These people here are the very definition of sheeple.
Howdy, partner. 🤠
This guy probably thinks he's doing his employees a favor by paying them for the work they perform for him
This is why the simple existence of billionaires is violence. You simply cannot become filthy rich without profiting off of the suffering of others. This motherfucker could pay people enough to never have to even consider sleeping on a factory floor. Hell, he could probably double his workforce and still pay that well and be filthy rich.
Delivered 4 - 8 years later, $25,000 more, 50 mile range, no screen and a radio tuned only to a station where his favorite coward of the moment reads their abhorent tweets
You're right and I agree, but on another note, it'd be nice if vehicles in general could be made with no screen again.
UAW
There are rumors that it could come without a steering wheel or any pedals to lower costs
Ehm what? Full self driving (and self crashing)??
Unless they found another legal loophole this will not happen. The reason Tesla can public test their FSD is because, legally, it's only autonomous level 2 and the responsibility falls on the driver. But autonomous level 2 also requires the steering wheel because the driver is supposed to keep their hands on the wheel at all times. No wheel means no level 2 and no level 2 means stricter regulations and stricter regulations most likely means higher costs.
I sure want to pay too much money for an unreliable potential fireball built by exhausted workers for a rich puppet that's been portrayed as a genius by a controlled main stream media owned by corporations and governments that use said puppet to build and fund tech used by the military to murder strangers around the world.
"We really need the engineers to be living on the line. This is not sort of an off-the-shelf 'it just works' type of thing," Musk said. "That will be a challenging production ramp […] we'll be sleeping on the line, practically. Not practically, we will be," he added.
Man, can this guy rally the troops or what? With sentiment like this, who needs a pep rally or company retreat? /s
Worst. Boss. Ever.
I would for a price. I've done a few hard years. The issue is that he's likely not making it voluntary and not compensating people for the sacrifice.
I can actually see this working for some people who have been heavily indoctrinated their entire adult professional careers. For instance, some people who join the military. When you're used to sleeping when you can and missing sleep for watch or what have you, you're already used to being mistreated. As a result it's easier to lure you with supposed perks that make up for the mistreatment. .
I would hope it doesn't work for the majority, but I'm not gonna lie, the number of people working in the service industry suggests that my hope is misplaced.
Articles that start with "Elon Musk says..." 😄
This category of articles is getting more and more hilarious recently.
He does know he can just hire more people and have them work shifts, right?
He is well aware. But if he did that he'd make maybe one tenth of a percent less and we can't have that!
i saw a tesla truck today for the first time and it looked stupid. its seriously like something from a 90s 3d tank game
It looks like it came straight of a cheesy 80s B movie called Megaforce.
I think that's the point. It hits a similar group as those old mini trucks (eg S10) from the 90s that get tricked out.
There's a concept of paid slaves.
Ya take 16 tons, whaddya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Like Musk is going to let his employees sleep...
When your boss sleeps at the factory it shows commitment. When he makes you sleep at the factory it shows he’s an asshole.
And the conditions are still better than what the collective agreements would require?
Yes
Well now I’m definitely never buying a Tesla.
2 years later, the car is released. It is made from lead to protect from radiation, has a range of 7 miles, and costs $112k for the base model.
Even if I was working there still: Fuck that. I'd rather sleep in my car. At least it's warm and soft unlike the concrete on the factory floor that's covered in metal shavings and dropped screws. Plenty of people I met there did just that because it was easier to just stay there all week and only go back home over the weekend cuz home was like a 4 hour drive away on a good day.
But I mean... There are way better jobs. And if you're a contractor (which is like 90% of the workforce there): you ain't getting a permanent position, lol. Fr. You're just gonna be used up and tossed aside and I know the pay isn't worth it. Might as well be a McDonald's janitor for the same pay. At least you ain't gonna fuck your back and knees all up or work more than 8 hours.
I mean, if you're required to stay there that'd be some mad overtime pay where I'm at: first 8hr at 1xpay, next 4hr at 1.5xpay, then everything after that is 2xpay.
I can't say I wouldn't consider it.
I doubt the regions this may be required in will have such labor friendly laws though...
According to another comment the workers are 90 percent independent contractors being abused. So no extra pay.
Somehow I'm not surprised... Fuck Tesla.
Sleeping there isn't necessarily working though. It's having the right amount of engineers on site so they can immediately fix things vs waiting until the next day.
So it's like being on call, except you have to be there.
I feel like that deserves way more than an on call wage, but also not as much as a over time working wage until they work?
As long as I'm paid appropriately though I'd do it for at least a short period.
If your company requires you to be on site for any reason, it's work. I don't care if the employee needs to be there just in case and put his thumbs in his bum for 12 hours.
That's not true. But you get all the upvotes and I get all the downvotes.
According to the U.S Department of Labor, an employee qualifies for on-call pay if they are required to be in the work premises awaiting substantive work, if and when the work becomes available. Alternatively, an employee is also said to be on-call pay if they are at home waiting for work to come up so that they are engaged. On-call pay also applies to cases where an employee is required not to stray away from their places of work as they wait to be engaged.
Those engineers will be considered on-call unless they are working. It's up to Tesla to compensate them as per the law, or better, to encourage their participation.
Don't buy that crap. 'nuff said.
I have a buddy with a bumper sticker that says "I bought this beforehe was crazy"
How about... No...
Instead of new car smell, it will have Elon Musk.
sounds fair and reasonable, definitely not dangerous.
He's so full of shit his eyes are brown...er than they were the last time his shit-spewing gullet was open
guy's a complete tool bag
A tool bag is useful and helps to alleviate a lot of redundant work. Everyone needs a tool bag.
I'd take a tool bag over Elon and day.
Sounds like The Boer is homesick for the land of his youth
That’s a weird way of bragging about understaffing leading to overwork, but I guess it explains why they can’t kick those quality issues.
Statements like that are just going to make it easier for the UAW to unionise those plants. Union factory workers don't sleep on the floor.
That does make a compelling campaign slogan. While I assume Musk's statement should not be taken literally, IIRC he made similar statements about Twitter. Shortly after, there were countless reports of how awful it suddenly became to work at Twitter.
You're actually right, this would look great on a poster. I hadn't even considered that, it was just a statement of fact.
Spoiler: it won't be $25,000.
I do t think musk will get his 25 either
Another ridiculous thing, the article says this new model might comes without steering wheel or pedals... .his self driving is no where near ready for that, especially since he cheaps out and uses cameras on high end models, the cheap one is going to have even worse cameras instead of the lidar they should all have
Give me more of the company or I'll destroy the company
...or I'll continue to destroy the company
That's a vehicle that won't sell in Europe then lmao
Musk is shook over that earnings report. His house of cards is falling down and he doesn't have enough rockets to keep it up. Tesla, Boring, Twitter -- all failing.
This guy has never been able to hit his MSRP goals.
That said, if he can’t ship a crossover for $35k, Volvo-Polestar will eat his lunch with the ex30. And like Telsa, Volvo has markup-free / commission-free purchase options. I got my last Volvo for MSRP. Ordered online with no BS.
If it weren’t for the whole everything-controlled-via-infotainment-screen thing, the EX30 would be on the short list for my next vehicle, but that’s a dealbreaker. I’m still rooting for Volvo, at least as much as I’d “root” for a company.
And it won't go into production next year. But workers will still be treated like shit.
I bet they're taking pre-orders with a deposit though
I'll be really surprised if he makes that date.
Because fuck family time ... This dude wants slaves. He can get fucked
Old habits die hard
Where do you think his seed money came from?
Why do you think he wants to get to mars quickly
It's only a matter of time before one of the mega-corps figures out how to lease prisoners as cheap and expendable workers.
That has been happening for a long time already.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2023/12/12/alabama-prison-labor-lawsuit/
It's already been going on for decades.
Lots of interesting articles and research talking about the problem of many CEOs exhibiting psychopathic traits but it being accepted. For example.
https://fortune.com/2021/06/06/corporate-psychopaths-business-leadership-csr/
“Our culture also glorifies and rewards successful leaders who may lie somewhere on the spectrum of psychopathy or who, if not actually psychopathic, nevertheless display traits that psychopathic individuals frequently have. The problem, of course, is that while psychopaths may have a lot of charisma and creativity, they may also lack, as already mentioned, socially important qualities such as empathy and morality.”
Yup. Sadly, having broken moral compass and lacking empathy can be obscenely profitable in the right circles. I honestly think that's all that is propping these guys up anymore.
Also, we used to attribute "boldness" to psycopaths/sociopaths but it turns out that's bunk and they're really "just mean". So the apologists out there have, yet again, one less thing to work with. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-any-age/202201/no-there-are-no-benefits-psychopathy
And as we saw with the "My 0th Blender Model (because we all know your first model is a somewhat decent donut)," these people have no creativity.
Damn, he's admitting his company is so close to collapse that everyone will have to literally sleep on the floor there just to try to save the business?
Bold move.
It worked for Twitter, right…. Right…?
Man i don't wanna buy a car made by people who aren't sleeping in a bed. Come on, now.
Tesla's quality control is already shit.
Imagine how much worse it could get if the workers are even more sleep deprived.
Saying we expect our employees to act as slaves, weird flex there Space Karen.
Wasn't the model 3 supposed to be the affordable version
Is $25k affordable? How much are cars? 25k sounds like a fuckload of money.
For a new car? $25k is a pretty low price, at least in the US. My car was $24k new 10 years ago. It wasn't particularly special then.
Supposedly my 2016 Corolla was 25k I think. But after all the fees and taxes and shit I feel like it was closer to 30k. All I know for real was that it was about $10/day for 7 years.
*Canadian $
$25K for a full electric car is the lowest price ever in the U.S.
I paid $21K for a used gasoline Honda Civic coupe just 2 years ago.
Some people pay like $60-80k for those big trucks you see
I live in a shitty neighborhood. The amount of Audi, bmw, Porsche SUVs is crazy.
The trick is, luxury cars drop in value insanely fast. A 2 year old Audi is often about the same price as a new Honda. The problem these people don't account for is maintenance costs. They think they are getting a deal, then they are getting dragged down by an unreliable vehicle that they can't afford to fix.
If memory serves, the outliers here are Lexus and Audi which both score high on reliability ratings. I could be wrong though, is been a couple of years since I looked into owning a car.
True, Lexus is a Toyota brand, and at least historically shared a lot of parts with Toyota cars, so maintenance wasn't always crazy. In the case of Audi, they might be quite reliable, but I know repairs/maintenance, when needed, is very expensive.
Lexus is probably highly reliable but Audi's have the same problem as other German makes- tons of cheap plastic under the hood that disintegrates at around the 5 year mark. There are lots of YouTube videos about it.
Yeah I've been keeping an eye on old beaters just to drop my kids to school and a 20yo Volvo SUV is as cheap as a 20yo Mazda.
Big bucks for big trucks?
$25k is actually very affordable for what new cars go for. That was deemed affordable 10 years ago, so hitting that price point today is an even bigger deal.
How much do you think a new car costs?
about as much as a banana, Michael
So, what, I don't know, $10?
Go see a Star War.
Affordable? No, not to many people's finances
Relatively cheap for a new car? Unfortunately
A tough combination in a country where having a car is essentially mandatory in all but a few cities
USD25K would buy you a sports spec Hyundai hatch, or a low spec 2wd SUV in Australia.
How much does a banana cost? $25,000?
But they don’t need a union
Sounds like a shitty boss. Also, I think OHSA is gonna have a field day with this.
Once the courts are done with federal agencies Deals won't have to worry about OSHA.
Anyone qualified to work on his production line can work on another. Or many many other mechanical/production roles.
I question anyone who would work those hours, sleep in the facility, accept the oats, and still whine.
The problem is who is hiring. Tesla's factory is the only big factory in an area where there are not other big car factories. Good luck finding another job in the area of Fremont.
Understood, but I'm saying ultimately these are skilled, desirable workers who should be seeking new opportunities NOW
Tesla already has the highest accident risk, are they trying to increase their lead?
Who is this message even for? Not the workers obviously. Does it instill the investors with confidence? "Production is so poorly managed and staffed that we have to rely on people working overtime." Does it increase demand? "Come buy these vehicles assembled by overworked, sleep-deprived line workers, hope it works out if you get in an wreck!" It's entirely for his own ego.
Welp. It's time for Tesla workers to unionize, and hard
Won't happen in Texas. There are so many people in this state convinced that unions are a horrible evil. Then they complain about how their job mistreats them, doesn't pay them enough, etc, etc, etc. You know, all the problems a union fixes. These people here are the very definition of sheeple.
Howdy, partner. 🤠
This guy probably thinks he's doing his employees a favor by paying them for the work they perform for him
This is why the simple existence of billionaires is violence. You simply cannot become filthy rich without profiting off of the suffering of others. This motherfucker could pay people enough to never have to even consider sleeping on a factory floor. Hell, he could probably double his workforce and still pay that well and be filthy rich.
Delivered 4 - 8 years later, $25,000 more, 50 mile range, no screen and a radio tuned only to a station where his favorite coward of the moment reads their abhorent tweets
You're right and I agree, but on another note, it'd be nice if vehicles in general could be made with no screen again.
UAW
Ehm what? Full self driving (and self crashing)??
Unless they found another legal loophole this will not happen. The reason Tesla can public test their FSD is because, legally, it's only autonomous level 2 and the responsibility falls on the driver. But autonomous level 2 also requires the steering wheel because the driver is supposed to keep their hands on the wheel at all times. No wheel means no level 2 and no level 2 means stricter regulations and stricter regulations most likely means higher costs.
I sure want to pay too much money for an unreliable potential fireball built by exhausted workers for a rich puppet that's been portrayed as a genius by a controlled main stream media owned by corporations and governments that use said puppet to build and fund tech used by the military to murder strangers around the world.
Man, can this guy rally the troops or what? With sentiment like this, who needs a pep rally or company retreat? /s
Worst. Boss. Ever.
I would for a price. I've done a few hard years. The issue is that he's likely not making it voluntary and not compensating people for the sacrifice.
I can actually see this working for some people who have been heavily indoctrinated their entire adult professional careers. For instance, some people who join the military. When you're used to sleeping when you can and missing sleep for watch or what have you, you're already used to being mistreated. As a result it's easier to lure you with supposed perks that make up for the mistreatment. .
I would hope it doesn't work for the majority, but I'm not gonna lie, the number of people working in the service industry suggests that my hope is misplaced.
Articles that start with "Elon Musk says..." 😄
This category of articles is getting more and more hilarious recently.
He does know he can just hire more people and have them work shifts, right?
He is well aware. But if he did that he'd make maybe one tenth of a percent less and we can't have that!
i saw a tesla truck today for the first time and it looked stupid. its seriously like something from a 90s 3d tank game
It looks like it came straight of a cheesy 80s B movie called Megaforce.
https://prod5.agileticketing.net/images/user/loft\_4255/Megaforce\_TMDB-b3Yne4Ir8WSx4yQUgs2WU6NZ8j9.jpg
OMG I want one of those!
I think that's the point. It hits a similar group as those old mini trucks (eg S10) from the 90s that get tricked out.
There's a concept of paid slaves.
Ya take 16 tons, whaddya get?
Another day older and deeper in debt
Like Musk is going to let his employees sleep...
When your boss sleeps at the factory it shows commitment. When he makes you sleep at the factory it shows he’s an asshole.
And the conditions are still better than what the collective agreements would require?
Yes
Well now I’m definitely never buying a Tesla.
2 years later, the car is released. It is made from lead to protect from radiation, has a range of 7 miles, and costs $112k for the base model.
Even if I was working there still: Fuck that. I'd rather sleep in my car. At least it's warm and soft unlike the concrete on the factory floor that's covered in metal shavings and dropped screws. Plenty of people I met there did just that because it was easier to just stay there all week and only go back home over the weekend cuz home was like a 4 hour drive away on a good day.
But I mean... There are way better jobs. And if you're a contractor (which is like 90% of the workforce there): you ain't getting a permanent position, lol. Fr. You're just gonna be used up and tossed aside and I know the pay isn't worth it. Might as well be a McDonald's janitor for the same pay. At least you ain't gonna fuck your back and knees all up or work more than 8 hours.
I mean, if you're required to stay there that'd be some mad overtime pay where I'm at: first 8hr at 1xpay, next 4hr at 1.5xpay, then everything after that is 2xpay.
I can't say I wouldn't consider it.
I doubt the regions this may be required in will have such labor friendly laws though...
According to another comment the workers are 90 percent independent contractors being abused. So no extra pay.
Somehow I'm not surprised... Fuck Tesla.
Sleeping there isn't necessarily working though. It's having the right amount of engineers on site so they can immediately fix things vs waiting until the next day.
So it's like being on call, except you have to be there.
I feel like that deserves way more than an on call wage, but also not as much as a over time working wage until they work?
As long as I'm paid appropriately though I'd do it for at least a short period.
If your company requires you to be on site for any reason, it's work. I don't care if the employee needs to be there just in case and put his thumbs in his bum for 12 hours.
That's not true. But you get all the upvotes and I get all the downvotes.
Emphasis below is mine.
Those engineers will be considered on-call unless they are working. It's up to Tesla to compensate them as per the law, or better, to encourage their participation.
Don't buy that crap. 'nuff said.
I have a buddy with a bumper sticker that says "I bought this beforehe was crazy"
How about... No...
Instead of new car smell, it will have Elon Musk.
sounds fair and reasonable, definitely not dangerous.
He's so full of shit his eyes are brown...er than they were the last time his shit-spewing gullet was open
guy's a complete tool bag
A tool bag is useful and helps to alleviate a lot of redundant work. Everyone needs a tool bag.
I'd take a tool bag over Elon and day.
Sounds like The Boer is homesick for the land of his youth