Tankies, you can keep jumping servers because we blocked your old servers, and we'll just keep blocking you. No one is interested in your brain damage
It's pretty obvious a ton of them have .world alts now and just brigade from those.
Tag em in app whenever you see em, makes life easier.
Mines a lemm.ee alt thank you very much
Lemmy.ml is still focused on FOSS and Privacy, Lemmygrad.ml is focused on Marxism-Leninism. As such, there are plenty of non-MLs on Lemmy.ml, including Anarchist communities, while this is banned on Lemmygrad.ml.
Very different instances, I wouldn't call Lemmygrad.ml "mask off" Lemmy.ml.
Except lemmygrad users are realizing we all blocked their instance and are becoming more active in lemmy.ml to try and evade this, and so yeah, .ml is getting more and more like Lemmygrad
Can't wait for this to become a systemic issue with Lemmy. Why does everything have to be ruined by tankies and conservatives? They know that nobody wants to talk to them, but they will evade and disrespect the rules just to make other people miserable.
What a sad hobby.
Tbh, I'm not super worried, theres already been defederation with Hexbear and Lemmygrad. As they infect tanky safezones and cause more defederations because of it, non tankie specific federations are going to start becoming specifically anti Tankie in response. I mean, look at my comment calling them brain damaged, it hasnt been civility removed yet, which I feel is a good sign. So while they can always create new accounts on non Tankie federations, over time they are going to start having to hide their more violent revolution and dictator loving sides, which tbh, at that point I'll tolerate their presence.
Edit: It's kind of ironic how in a post where I called other people brain damaged, I wrote it like I was having a stroke. I've edited it to make it flow faaaaarrr better
This is the part I find hilarious. MLs think the reason people don't like their outdated brand of communism is because they are brainwashed. The reality is that people don't like their outdated brand of communism because tankies are insufferable, know-it-all autocrats who refuse to engage with any modern formulation of Marxist theory.
If MLs would be more academically engaged with contemporary political science, people would like their messaging much more. Of course then they'd probably realize that Lenin and Mao were just giant assholes, so I guess it's a bit of a paradox.
They don't want to engage because communism is just a facade for them to spread CCP and Kremlin propaganda. They're not actually communists.
I mean, their messaging IS shit, but I think one of the biggest flaws that cant be overcome even if they started acting less insufferably is that they are ok with and will defend tooth and nail any dictator that says they are communist. I do not for one second believe that Xi or Putin has ANY intention of furthering LGBTQ politics for instance. Tankies whole ideology isnt thought through and HEAVILY conflicting
There's a joke (or possibly simple wisdom) about a bar that's worth discussing here.
Is it similar to the story about a table, but for the other side of the aisle?
I don't know the story about a table. Which is surprising, because I grew up in a bright red community where delivering pithy metaphors about the futility of breaking bread with the opposition was sport. (For the record, I wouldn't break bread with Nazis.)
Its "If a table of 9 lets 1 Nazi sit at that table, it's a table of 10 Nazi's" or something like that
Oh, no, it's exactly that. "If you let one Nazi into the bar, congrats you have a Nazi bar."
Tankies are reactionaries.
Literally, the Bolsheviks were the reactionaries that suppressed and appropriated the Russian revolution, and said they were doing it at the time. 'M-L' is stalinism.
They're just red star brand conservative reactionaries.
This is just a very braindead take. Not all types of authoritarian mindset are reactionary. Red fascism is an absurd take which was originated by CIA propaganda in the 50s.
Your critique of authoritarian states, does not make them equal. That is a centerist take that smells like a moral jerk off ritual.
not all authoritarianism
Could argue that, and if you brought up Cuba I might lose, but it's not the argument here.
Tankies, for historical reasons, with their Russia fetish, are reactionary. They fetishize a group of shitty reactionaries who killed all the communists (auth and otherwise). The origin of why we call them 'tankies' is a second wave of them being reactionaries who murdered all the communists.
It's really clear at many levels.
Believe it or not, in the age those tankies lived, shit wasn't easy. Trying to sabotage every meaningful conversation by hur dur tanky stuff is rather more braindead than being a conservative. Political change is messy, violent and fucked up in nature. Tankies committed atrocities and also provided some great shit to people who had nothing, like free healthcare and education, abortion rights and in 2 decades became an industrial nation.
Did they did a lot of wrongs? Yeah. Should we learn from them, yeah, did they also delivered, well they delivered, although with great price.
I'm typing this from a country so fucked up economically and politically, that you westerners won't understand. But trying to magnify and dilute the conversation with weird moral optics does not make lives of us 3rd worlders easier. You want to ride your moral high horse while every political inaction will stump hundreds in a minute.
They betrayed and stole the revolution, almost every other group involved would have done better.
In not shitting on them for being messy. I'm shitting on them for killing all the communists.
Tell that to the citizens of Tambov and Kronstadt sailors in the 1920s.
Why does everything have to be ruined by tankies and conservatives?
A lot of them are shills/bots. The Kremlin (maybe also the CCP, not sure) is supporting a bunch of political extremes, whether they agree with them or not.
Divide and conquer in a digital age.
Think of shitty kids who like to wreck everything they touch. Whenever they try to make their own clubhouse, it usually doesn't last long because they wind up wrecking it themselves. And while they like to wreck things, they don't actually like living in a wrecked clubhouse. They want to be able to wreck things and laugh as others suffer from their damage and have to fix it. So they invade other clubhouses because their own is always a fucking mess.
Have any Conservative instances been de-federated, or are there any? I've noticed a HUGE influx of 'Men's Rights' misogynists, wondering if they came from that happening.
It's not a hobby, they're paid by the CCP/Kremlin.
Both can be true at the same time
Nah. Gig economy. Know anyone who can keep their shit down to one job these days?
It's probably not, I think a lot of tankies are true believers (nobody pays for sponsored content in pillow talk. Yet. Yes ive made bad decisions.) but it could be.
Hey, that's not fair - many of them are paid by the RNC to turn off left leaning voters.
No they do it for free. These aren't paid assets they're angsty disaffected teens.
Some are useful idiots, the core is paid shills. I'd be surprised if they're not also starting to use LLMs.
If they don't get talking points directly from a trollfarm, someone influential over there watches a lot of Russian propaganda.
On the other hand, they do love yelling at libs to stop supporting the Gaza genocide, so I like them until they also start bitching about fighting a fascist invasion.
Pick your goddamn lane
They want to amplify the atrocities Israel is committing in Gaza because it increases the probability Trump gets elected, which would be a huge win for the Kremlin.
I'd guess there's backroom deal making with Iran as well given the political dynamics there.
amplify the atrocities the kapo filth are doing
How? Its already a fucking deathklok show.
that increases the probability trump gets elected
And whose fucking fault is that?
And whose fucking fault is that?
That would be the fault of the idiots who'd rather see the literal authoritarian mad man come to power again than vote for Biden.
The suffering in Gaza has to stop but not voting Biden will have the opposite effect.
Could've run anyone other than biden. Could have offered us something, anything, that we actually want.
Biden could have proven he deserved two hours of my time in the past four years. Literally all he has to do, and theres still time, is "blockade against Cuba over. Blockade against Israel begin. All humanitarian aid must go through Palestine, Palestinian authorities must approve every shipment at the border, get right to loot at leisure"
Hell, they could even offer some of the accelerationist/unserious trump votes an actually good option to fucking engage them and take fascism off the table. They could do that. They don't.
And when they do win with a good candidate, they still roll over and let the fascist have the seat (last time they ran a good candidate was 2000), so even if I did like someone and want to vote for them, if I see a D by their name, I know even if they win, they'll never take office.
If you offer me a trolley problem, and I ask "why the fuck do you keep tying people to the other track, dude? What the fuck!?" And then after the fifth or six time just stop, I just stop signing off on your murders and step off the murder trolley, I'm not the monster here. ... Actually, this is literally a description of a scene in 'the good place', and it's a literal demon doing it to a terminally indecisive moral philosophy professor. Because its comically evil. Literally its a comedy and the audience is supposed to laugh at the absurdity of how pointlessly evil it is, and its the perfect metaphor for the democratic party.
I have an account on lemmygrad and when I created it, I was asked about my politics. They formally accepted every left ideology but when you say anything remotely anti-authoritarian, you get downvoted into oblivion
Mind boggling. Like seriously, I am as left wing as they come and for me that is defined by anti-authoritarian views. Fascists aren't bad because they are the wrong kind of fascist.
to be fair, tankies are the fascist skinwalkers wearing the visage of the lefties they killed
Oh shit. I now I dont know if I like this, or "Leftist version of a Nazi Brony" more
Almost literally, if you know jack shit about the Russian revolution.
I've recently come to the conclusion that they are the leftist version of Nazi Bronies, like, dude, you're one of the first populations that your preferred rulers are going to purge.
Nah. People like that end up being pushed into paramilitary shit or the bureaucracy.
I totally agree with you. That said, tankies will argue some shit why they are further left. You can go into that discussion about the semantics of left and distract from the fact that tankies are evil. Or stop "gatekeeping" leftness and argue why they are bad.
Not doubting you, but what do you mean by "anti-authouritarian?" Presumably you've read Engels' On Authority so you know what they are operating under the pretense of, I can see anti-Marxist takes getting removed or downvoted. It is Lemmygrad after all, not Lemmy EZLN or Lemmy Catalonia.
I didn't mean to disagree with you. Just add that they are formally open to other leftist viewpoints but not effectively.
And yes, you will get alot of strawmans like Engels' On Authority. If you want an analysis of the text, this video debunks it quite well
Lenin had some disagreements with Marx, i dont even like marx ans lenin is worse, and 'marxist lenninist' means 'stalinist'. Which is even worse. You cannot call them 'leftists'.
What is a leftist, if not someone advocating collective owmership of Capital? Leftist isn't a syononym for "good," of course, but I fail to see how Marxist-Leninists aren't leftists.
In the USSR the serfs were still serfs even if they weren't called that, the workers still didn't own the means of production, and there was still a tiny room of delusional shit sticks making all the decisions, often wildly irrationally.
Better than one guy doing it, but no more, or not much more communist than the UK or France.
There were numerous struggles and issues with the USSR, of course. There was corruption, especially among the Politburo. The focus on heavy industry over light industry, though favorable during WWII, resulted in fewer luxury commodities, which resulted in liberalization and collapse.
Fundamentally, it is entirely silly to say that the USSR wasn't leftist. It absolutely was, even if it was highly flawed and imperfect. In fact, it's useful to analyze what went right (free eduaction, high home ownership, generous social safety net) and what went wrong (corruption, lack of luxury commodities, etc.) so as to come up with a better system.
That is, unless you think Marxism isn't leftist, and think only Anarchism counts as leftist, in which case I really don't know what to tell you.
The Bolsheviks killed all the communists. Including the Marxists.
That's certainly a statement, backed up by nothing but posturing and not an ounce of analysis.
If you can meaningfully explain how Lenin and the Bolsheviks were not Marxists, I'd be very surprised, but I am willing to hear your case. What do you believe would have been the Marxist structure? The same as the USSR, just without the corruption? Is it just vibes and aesthetics?
Marxist? Maybe. But they skirted around the edges and avoided any unpleasant communism.
As shown by the fact they basically dismantled all the soviets and turned them into some parliamentary shit?
The justification for replacing the factory committees with the union system is because the factory committees were focusing competitively on local issues, rather than cooperatively at a national level. I don't believe this makes it less leftist. This improved productivity in a time when the factories were more chaotic.
How would you propose the Bolsheviks could have handled the situation in a more thoroughly Communist manner, given what they had to work with at the time?
Dude I'm not going to keep arguing with someone who tries to defend that shit.
Marx was, and I couldn't stand reading that bastard because of how he talked about the 'lumpenproletariat', that shit made my blood boil, so maybe I'm missing something, pretty vague on specific structures of post revolutionary organization. More about what communism was and how to get it.
And its very cute to say the state is the workers, but when they have to switch to building impractical useless products to keep up with the irrational demands of the state, or be punished I think its pretty clearly unmasked as a lie, and blatantly insane to still claim.
I'm not claiming any one group or ideology owns the Russian revolution-it was a big tent, it was a big fight, and it took place over, at any given moment, at least half the day. Which is wild. I'm saying the Bolsheviks were reactionaries. They knew they were reactionaries. And they killed the communists.
What made you upset about the Lumpenproletariat? Either way, Marx describes a bit about what a Socialist state might look like in Critique of the Gotha Programme, but is careful not to actually decide anything or give a template.
I understand that you are saying the Bolsheviks were reactionaries. The Bolsheviks claimed the Anarchists were counter-revolutionaries. What evidence do you have that the Bolsheviks were against implementing Socialism and eventually Communism?
Reactionary is specifically used for enemies of the revolution, not the ones carrying it out.
I am not defending the killing of the Anarchists, but questioning the language of "reactionary" as used by you.
In what manner at all? Fascism is fucking horrible. I am recommending about Marx and Engels as examples of Leftists. Unless, of course, you think Communism is fascist, in which case I really don't know what to tell you.
Meanwhile at c/worldnews they remove replies where people disagree that Ukraine is run by fascists and Putin should take it.
.ml is rapidly becoming the joke of the fediverse with how unapologetically they hand out bans for even mild wrong think.
That's a straight lie. ML will quickly ban you for pointing out Russian astroturfing and Russian propaganda, but they barely give a shit about anything else.
Got any fun or good examples?
Other than just browsing the modlog (actually do it from .ml since they seem to selectively federate the logs these days) The asklemmy thread about fediverse trolls is pretty much a perfect example of the .ml mods/admins falling over themselves to ban any dissent as "incivility" while letting actual trolls get away with actual incivility.
Just realized that .ml is a domain hack for tankies. Go figure.
There are people who think they're at all different?
I'm pretty sure lemmygrad was explicitly created to be the mask off equivalent of .ml
i donāt know that people think they are different per se, but i do see a strange sense of shock that the same people annoyed with one might also be annoyed at the other
Oh please. Everyone knows individuality is sold at Hollister.
There are users who donāt know why .ml was the domain that was used, only that it was the original instance so thatās what they chose to sign up with.
Yep when I first joined I thought it stood for main Instance.
I leave them unblocked, I like seeing the crazies sometimes
absolutely a valid position to have
Thanks I need to get the wiggles out sometimes too
I block individuals. I think it can be good to expose myself to the eastern narrative a little since I'm only experiencing a western narrative. As well as eastern shitpost's since I subscribe to 4chan
Most non-bots are from United States and know nothing about eastern narrative other than what russian and Chinese bots are feeding them.
I find your innocence thinking the western narrative is not managed by CIA bots and shills, a bit cute. Just look at any discourse regarding Israel and Palestine and see how braindead liberals become bloodthirsty af when they realize many in the world don't share their worldview.
Love the name btw
Thank you š„¹
Wait, what's lemmygrad?? I incorrectly inferred that lemmygrad was a disparaging name for lemmy.ml
Good for you. I blocked that instance the second that was an option.
the fediverse is turning into a collection of echo chambers due to this and now i'm wondering if it's worth it to back to reddit.
no matter how bad it might seem here I can promise reddit is a thousand times worse
There are instances that don't defederate at all. Or block piracy communities.
Let me give an example: I have a friend on Bluesky. He's as middle of the road as it's possible to be (and I say that in an entirely neutral way; it makes him neither better nor worse than anyone). He's nice, and a good person. But he's aggressive, disruptive, a fight-picker, and a single-issue conversationalist on social media. Bluesky seems to have a disproportionate number of people who are very nice, well-meaning, but aggressive and disruptive. I left Bluesky to exit an echo chamber for something more serene. I think that's one thing the loud folk don't quite get, regardless of their ideology: not all of us are here to yell and throw things all the time.
Why does this feel like a dark family secret.
They're our crazy uncle that we try to keep locked in the basement but sometimes guests hear the crazed incomprehensible ranting from the cellar door.
Newbie here, do I not see lemmygrad stuff on my "all" feed because I am on the shitjustworks instance?
I can pull it up in the search bar, but don't seem able to subscribe.
I probably need to watch a newbs guide to the fediverse video or something. Like I understand the basic idea, but not the nuances or technical stuff.
looks like your instance is defederated by lemmygrad, so thatās probably whatās up.
Yea I knew I had start looking up who is federated with whom. Thanks for the link!
no problem im always forgetting this specific link too, but itās really handy :)
Yeah. Also, your instance is pretty well known for doing little about the vast numbers of hard right and alt right individuals on it who seek out and harass left leaning individuals, so itās in both instances best interest to be separated.
Thanks for the heads up. Outside of a couple instances I see mentioned all the time, Im not really sure of the differences between them all and their reputations. Lemmy world was my first attempt, but two or three times the account creation did not work. I'm sure it was user error, but I'm not sure how exactly I messed up.
Really? I just joined it cause I thought the instance name was hilarious.
The decision to block the Lemmygrad instance was less a question of censorship, and more an issue of personal conviction. As a volunteer dedicating my personal resources and time to facilitating a space for users to create, discover, and discuss - not just on this instance, but across the Fediverse - I admit that this choice was made alone, selfishly, without the consent or thoroughly considering the collective opinion of the community. With the above said, sh.itjust.works has had the lemmygrad instance blocked from its first day.
Actually, there was a vote immediately after the defederation to see whether people wanted lemmygrad refederated, and about 80-90% of the votes were to stay defederated, so it seems the users of sh.itjust.works also don't like grad.
edit: my mistake, turns out it was hexbear that was voted on, which has similar content
Itās worth noting about your edit: Iām pretty sure hexbear was the one that initiated defederation from shit over shit posters being transphobic and harassing users in dms.
You are correct, hexbear did defederate from sh.itjust.works about a week after federating with them, so the vote became moot.
The reason you gave is part of the reason hexbear admins gave, but I would take what they say with a grain of salt. I've seen people say things like "being trans in thoughts is a much different experiece than being trans in the way you dress, act, and look" and hexbear users will call that transphobic/uninclusive, as well as generally being vitriolic and unpleasant.
As an example, a post where someone says "Biden brings up minimum wage increase and asks other democrats to speak up" will have several comments from hexbear users saying "capitalist bootlickers defending Biden should be shot like the vermin they are." Maybe some users harassed hexbear users for these comments? I personally didn't see any but it's definitely possible.
Lol
Transphobia in DM's
Wow what the fuck
Why do they run two lemmy instances?
When everyone dislikes your poorly thought out reactions and you respond to that disdain with calls for nuking entire hemispheres of the only planet we can live on, you kinda have to hide your identity/ideologies by way of obfuscation.
They seem proud and vocal in their echo chamber but these fools are weaker than a watery shit irl.
Bitch-made invertebrate shit-heels pretending to be tough with Molotov-sippy-cups.
Obfuscation. They know lemmygrad is too obviously tankie for most people, but lemmy.ml is not so obvious. The .ml is a dogwhistle that a lot of users won't understand, so they can buy some measure of legitimacy that way. I guess they keep lemmygrad because they also want a place where they can go full mask-off.
If your theory is correct, then why would they also keep many of their users uninformed? Referring to Lemmy.ml, of course. You claim it's for legitimacy, but doesn't that cease to fulfill its purpose? Is the goal to make a generalist instance, but with slightly more MLs, but also divert the MLs to Lemmygrad?
I'm not sure your theory is correct, I think Lemmy.ml is just what it says it is: a generalist, FOSS and Privacy focused instance run by the devs, who are MLs.
If your theory is correct, then why would they also keep many of their users uninformed? Referring to Lemmy.ml, of course. You claim itās for legitimacy, but doesnāt that cease to fulfill its purpose?
Because the users that don't know what the instance is for are the ones that help lend legitimacy to it, because then people like you can believe that it's just a general instance with no political undertones. You aren't running cover for them, you are their cover.
Just think for a second about what you're suggesting. They want to make an instance that is to lend legitimacy to a fringe political ideology, and they openly tell all of their users that that's exactly what they're doing? Then all anyone would need to do to destroy that legitimacy would be to publish whatever message the users receive explaining the true purpose of the instance. The cover only works if it's deniable, and your idea would make it completely undeniable.
Is the goal to make a generalist instance, but with slightly more MLs, but also divert the MLs to Lemmygrad?
That is one of the goals, yes.
Sorry, I really think this is ridiculous. Is Lemmy.world a cover for Liberalism, because it's run by liberals? Is db0 a cover for Anarchism and Libertarian Socialism, because db0 is a Libertarian Socialist? This is just red-scare style paranoia.
The very existance of Lemmygrad.ml should prove that there is an explicitly Marxist-Leninist space for MLs, and Lemmy.ml is a generalist instance for people who don't care enough about that but want a server dedicated to FOSS and Privacy.
Is Lemmy.world a cover for Liberalism, because itās run by liberals? Is db0 a cover for Anarchism and Libertarian Socialism, because db0 is a Libertarian Socialist?
Liberals and libertarian socialists are usually pretty open about what they believe, so there's no cover needed. They're not covert ideologies like tankies have.
However neoliberalism is a fairly hated ideology. If the people who ran lemmy.world were literally the same people running a neoliberalism sub on that instance and they also ran thatcher.love or whatever, and they banned people for saying neoliberalism was trash, then yeah, it would be a reasonable inference that lemmy.world was some sort of entryist ploy.
It is the existence of lemmygrad combined with the behaviour of the people running lemmy.ml that makes the case to defederate. If that happens and you don't like it, you could always migrate your account, unless you like it there, in which case you're probably not the normie you first appeared to be.
Edit: changed "fringe" to "covert".
Completely tangential, but imma be real with you: libsocs are fringe too.
Indeed, socialism of any sort is pretty fringe in most of the West.
That's a fair point, although I would say socialism is becoming less fringe, and it seems like the various types of libsoc are the main forms of socialism because people have seen the failures of state based solutions, even amongst demsocs/socdems.
That said, I kind of agree and the word "fringe" didn't sit quite right. On reflection a better word would be "covert", since ideologies that explicitly want to dominate people tend to hide what they are, since they know it's not acceptable to state their aims up front. That's really the idea I was getting at.
Fair
Lemmy.world regularly bans Marxist-Leninists, it is a two-way street there.
Again, I truly don't see how Lemmygrad taking the marxist-leninists means Lemmy.ml is a cover for Marxism-Leninism, it's a non-political community focused on FOSS and Privacy.
Just for being marxist-leninists? Or because they were toxic assholes?
Anecdotally I have seen Marxist-Leninists calmly arguing in politics communities banned for being "tankies." I will admit, I do not have any examples on-hand.
So do they regularly do this, or is it a thing you've seen anecdotally?
And if the thing they were calmly arguing was genocide denial, then the ban was warranted. The tone is not the only thing that matters.
Imagine if someone defended nazis with "they were calmly denying the Holocaust". I've seen far too many tankies denying the Uyghur genocide every chance they get. Like you say, it doesn't matter the tone; genocide denial is itself a line you don't cross.
I canāt find a reputable international human rights organization that calls it a genocide. Human Rights violations, sure. Crimes against humanity, maybe, but not genocide.
The U.N. rights council on Thursday voted down a Western-led motion to hold a debate about alleged human rights abuses by China against Uyghurs and other Muslims in Xinjiang in a victory for Beijing as it seeks to avoid further scrutiny.
The defeat - 19 against, 17 for, 11 abstentions - is only the second time in the council's 16-year history that a motion has been rejected and is seen by observers as a setback to both accountability efforts, the West's moral authority on human rights and the credibility of the United Nations itself. Source
If itās a genocide, why hasnāt it been taken to the International Court of Justice?
An alternative route is provided by theĀ International Court of Justice, asĀ highlightedby the Uyghur Tribunal, which stated: āIt is unfortunate that no efforts have been made by those [countries who declared China to be perpetrating genocide in Xinjiang] or other countries to have the issue dealt with at the ICJ, as might happen if a country had the courage to take the matter there.ā Source
I do. I had a post removed from political memes because apparently people didnāt like the fact that a Nazi was made a chairman in NATO. Adolf Heusinger
We know that, it's the implication that that somehow justifies Russia invading Ukraine is what makes you a tankie.
That was never brought up in the post or the comments. The post was removed for āmisinformation,ā when it is completely factual. The commenters first countered that it wasnāt true. He wasnāt actually a Nazi. He wasnāt a chairman. When that failed, they focused on the pedantry of āaā chairman versus ātheā chairman. And I guess it was reported and removed.
Just pointing out that the same exclusionary tribalism happens on .world as it happens on .ml and Lemmygrad.
"itās a non-political community focused on FOSS and Privacy." -moderated and controlled at least somewhat by tankies who will delete your comment and possibly ban you for saying things about their flavour of communism that they dont like
The whole reason this was posted is because of the users posting they got banned from ml for stating facts that tankies disagree with.
Such as?
They'll ban you for acknowledging the existence of the Uyghur genocide, for one
Edit: wording
Or calling out russian and chinese talking points. And then they have the same 10 users popping up whenever the instances are criticized saying "akshally privacy and no tanks..." (see above)
Lmao one of the Tankies let their Hexbuddies know about this thread and they've started mass downvoting
I do know they like to follow me....
Eta: its funny how often the threads they brigade start off with the common shill thoughts getting downvoted and actual leftist thought upvoted only for it to shift as the threads pick up steam. Im not convinced its possible to win this fight, if im honest.
Also, note the sheer absurd amount of comments in this thread for something with (atm) 338 points. They always do this and act like its not happening.
I mean. I block all the ones brave enough to actually post something. So up and downvoting is the only noticable way left they impact me. I consider that a win as it allows me to enjoy lemmy a whole lot more
Maybe because no human rights organizations, nor the United Nations have labeled it a genocide. Human rights violations, yes. Crimes against humanity, yes. Genocide, no.
Merely using the word Tankie has gotten me bigotry ruled recently. .ml is infected with Tankies regardless of what other people use it for.
I don't think that's a good solution. If I personally block an instance they can still see my comments and posts and have full conversations alongside them that everybody except me can read. I reserve blocking for genuine harrasment, not horrible ideas in general. I'd rather be part of the discussion and use that to build a case for defederation if it's really so bad I'd want to block them.
Agreed, and I think defederation from Lemmy.ml is overdue.
They're a toxic mouthpiece for authoritarian governments pretending to be communists, especially the CCP but also the Kremlin. They're the reason I won't even admit to anyone that I use Lemmy.
I had an old account I abandoned because they followed me around and downvoted everything I posted. Most of it was funny memes I was posting to help Lemmy grow.
They're the same trashy people as Hexbear but with a nicer mask and surrounded by legitimate users who don't realize what's going on.
It's not enough that you ignore views you don't like, you must apparently stop everyone else on the same instance(s) as you from seeing these views. For our protection and safety, I assume?
I just don't have the time or energy to deal with the toxic behaviour of those people. I don't run an instance, the one I use doesn't block others, but I block some instances for my personal account. Nothing wrong with that.
Nothing wrong with blocking instances yourself. My issue is with people who take it upon themselves to mount a campaign to block instances for all other users on an instance.
I have an issue with people who mount a campaign to stop defederation regardless of who it's targeting.
sigh
All together now:
"If users don't like that their instance has defederated then they can migrate their accounts."
I have yet to see a real answer to this from people who concern troll about defederation.
Or, more simply, if you don't like the instance then you can block it yourself. That's what the feature is for. It's not concern trolling to point out that I don't want people like you choosing which instances I get to see from which instances I use.
It's much easier for you to use the block feature as intended instead of you screaming at instance maintainers to censor content for everyone on that instance you don't like and making people create accounts all over different instances just because you can't handle a different opinion. Why needlessly fracture the fediverse because of your personal preferences?
sigh
"Blocking is a band-aid that doesn't remove the problem community from interacting with your community at large, which is how you limit the ability of that community to spread their harmful behaviour."
Also, I don't choose, the instance admins choose. Nothing I say will change that. If I successfully convince them, then they were convincable. If you don't like that... change instances.
"Problem community", huh? Now that's concern trolling! You're just concerned about others being exposed to a nebulous "problem community"?
Why do you think you get to decide for others what a "problem community" is? I've seen people like you rally together to scream at instance maintainers to block other instances because you don't like their opinions. Stop being a fediverse karen and use the block function or, if you're such a control freak, maintain your own instance.
I'm sorry, do you think the concept of a "problem community" is somehow not a concept that makes sense? What is your argument here exactly?
Are you trying to say that defederation should never be done? If not, then what are you saying?
Funny how ur comments were the ones upvoted up a few hrs ago and the other commenter downvoted.... hmmmmmmm......
I have no idea exactly what that means but I am fascinated to learn more. It makes the concern trolling even more of a troll in that case. Like I seriously wonder what's behind it if this is happening, because these "no defederate PLZZZZ!!1!" folks are so rabid and they keep recycling the same tired, vapid arguments that they don'teven bother to defend. Like are they just trying to sabotage the fediverse by spreading FUD about the main tool we have for preventing it from sliding into pure toxicity?
Fascinating, and u just got downvoted for this xD.
I left a more in depth reply there, but all these accounts only purpose is to spoil our election in the states so we install a dictator.
Paradox of tolerance, my good friend.
the paradox of tolerance applies to the intolerant. all leftists are tolerant people and the strawman that we use to describe a tankie is not a leftist.
That's fair. I'm a filthy casual and thus blocking instances works fine for me (3 so far). User comments from those instances are shown to me with a spoiler tag and when I click on them I can still see them and even comment on them. But I'm happy that posts from those instances don't show up in my feed.
User comments from those instances are shown to me with a spoiler tag and when I click on them I can still see them and even comment on them.
That's actually a pretty good solution, I didn't realise it worked like that.
Maybe instance blocking is a solution I can use in that case...
Hi just migrated from Lemmy.ml. just wondering what a tankie actually is? I've heard it used a lot especially on Lemmy. My guess is some kind of pro CCP kind of communist but that's my best guess
Edit:
Nvm just googled it. Its pretty much what I wrote.
yeah you p much got it, (e: specifically they are v v chill with violence against innocents and authoritarianism to bring about their chosen regime. im already getting downvoted in this comment tho so yeah just go look at the wikipedia page š)
Does that mean most Americans are tankies when it comes to Israel's ongoing genocide of Palestinians š¤
**Clearly struck a cord with the bloodthirsty genocide supporters
Tankie is a term exclusively used for communists.
Oh yeah I forgot. Communism is bad, but mass killing brown Muslims is fine because they're subhuman cannon fodder for furthering America's Military Industrial Complex. Thanks for clearing that up.
Try harder.
Communism isn't bad per se, authoritarianism is, but there are many authoritarian regimes going under the name 'communist', thus we have a term for that: tankie. Using different terms to describe the Israeli state (like fascist, ethno-nationalist, or Zionist) and its supporters does not mean it's not bad. It really is! It's just categorically different in the ideology espoused by them, and having language to describe that is not bad.
Intentionally missing the point of the irony behind Americans using words that allude to ignoring a genocide while actively ignoring a genocide they're tax dollars are funding.
I honestly canāt tell if youāre just a troll or actually this stupid.
American perspective: opposing genocide is stupid
Words have meaning you know.
That is just the meaning of the word tankie. If you fail to understand that, I feel sorry for you.
plenty of the people leveraging the word ātankieā against tankies are communists, or at least socialists, just less authoritarian ones. and iād venture to guess that the vast majority of those people are anti-genocide, including the case of Gaza.
please take the smallest of measures to understand the positions at foot before stuffing straw men into everyoneās mouths. you look quite foolish here.
no that doesnāt mean that. tankies are communist. most americans are not generally communists
Depends on whether the person saying it is a fellow leftie or a rightwinger brainlet. To the first, it's what you described - an anti-Marxist communist. To the second group, anyone left of Nixon.
IMO a tankie on the left is just a pure anti-west authoritarian cosplaying as a communist - the communism is largely window dressing and they are generally perfectly happy defending Russia (obviously not communist) or authoritarian nonsense from China and other communist countries.
Wtf is an anti-Marxist communist? Is that like a swimmer that canāt swim? Arizona just outlawed abortion, and have senators speaking in tongues while praying on the floor of the house. President Biden is fully endorsing a genocide in the Middle East. Trump might become the first dictator of America.
And yaāll worried about
?.?.āāTANKIESāā. ?.?
Get some GD perspective.
They're comment is wrong. But non-marxian communism exists. For example council communism.
But a Tankie is basically a Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist communist who dick rides authoritarianism.
Iāve always liked the idea of Council Communism, but I must admit I donāt know as much about it as I would like.
I just think itās silly to divide ourselves into camps, while we are essentially seeking the same goals.
while we are essentially seeking the same goals.
Authoritarian "leftists" are not seeking the same goals as other leftists.
Neither are social democrats, but we take help where we can get it. If we exclude anyone anti-fascist, that division will be exploited. We canāt afford to lose sight of the true enemy, the billionaire ruling class.
Council communism is basically methadone therapy for Marxists, for those that can't make the leap to Anarchism. Council Communism is essentially indistinguishable (in practice, theory is a bit different) from Syndicalism.
As to campism: Somehow it's always the authoritarians calling for "left unity", that of course meaning "follow Stalin": Never, ever, do they sit down and actually consider the opinions of anti-auths. No, we don't have the same goals: They want to rule, we don't. And, no, we didn't forget the Bolsheviks allying with fascists to stab Anarchists in the back.
āThe anarchists point of view is the most disruptive element in the New Left and should be capitalized on in the most confusing ways,ā the FBI wrote. Source
Why were the FBI okay with Anarchists, but not Marxists Leninist like the Black Panthers?
I can't speak for the FBI but bullshit needs disruption, anyways, and confusion is the first step to enlightenment. Of course the FBI should've started by disrupting themselves but you can't have everything in life.
Actually even the premise and also language used in that sentence makes me think we might be looking at a Discordian having infiltrated the FBI. What better place to author a zine than on Uncle Sam's dime?
Begone, tankie.
Iām a white, upper middle class boomer living in America who is registered independent, but consistently voted for Democrats for the past 28 years. I did vote for Ross Perot in ā92, because I wanted a third party. Iām as far removed from a ātankieā as you can get.
Why is it wrong to think for yourself and form your own opinions? Yaāll just want to hate on people to pretend you have some control in this chaotic world.
It makes me sad that so many want to spread hate instead of love.
To be fair, I only have you labaled as "tankie apologist" on my app.
And tankies poison the well, they are something to be concerned about even if worse things are happening.
Thatās fair. Iām more worried about climate change than the pettiness of leftist infighting, so I will continue to apologize for any group that is anti-capitalist.
Iām pragmatic enough to understand that when a planned economy comes, and it will, we may not have the time and opportunities to choose which structures replace capitalism. It may be an amalgamation of many socialist strategies.
I find it pointless to bicker over socialism, when fascism is the bigger threat. But it is entertaining.
Get some GD perspective.
That's fucking RICH, and that's coming from a lib who apparently only knows how to genocide for vast wealth and power.
Did you just own yourself? I donāt understand this convoluted cleverness.
I feel so owned right now. I may have to eat some ice cream.
In what way did your comment refute any point I made?
Just screaming into the abyssā¦ sad.
Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.
man, I really need to create my own instance sometime.
I've not been on here long enough to know what this is about, anyone care to explain?
In case you havent been here long enough to know what a Tankie is, on top of what everyone else has shared: A Tankie is a Communist who thinks Russia and China have done nothing wrong, they'll try and make you think we call ALL communists/left leaning people Tankies, but no, the Tank part of Tankie comes from shit like Tiananmen Square where they used tanks to destroy their political opposition, and Tankies are perfectly fine with this/claim shit like Tiananmen Square is propoganda.
Tldr: Communist/Socialists/leftists who arent a fan of Russia and China's dictatorial tendencies? Not a Tankie. Communist who'll defend Russia and China to the point of thinking maybe Ukraine deserves to be invaded and that Taiwan should be absorbed by China? Tankie
Edit: Even more TL:Dr? They're the leftist version of a Nazi Brony
Edit the third: Tankies, downvotes by you hold as much meaning as a downvote on youtube does.. I saw the downvote count go from 1-6 in 15 minutes so you could make it look like as much people disagreed with me as agreed
Ah, that makes quite a lot of sense! Thank you!
The ml stands for Marxist Leninist. Basically, it means the admins of an instance ending in ml has been some revolting politics.
It actually stands for "Mali".
I understand that, but there's a reason they chose that domain, and that's why.
Its bc its cheap iirc, the second meaning was a plus tho im sure
And not just Marxist Leninism, but revanchist Marxist Leninism which denies the wrongdoing of not only Stalin and Mao but also Putin and Xi entirely and blames anything that happened in history or present on the West.
ie. Tankies.
I wouldn't really have much problem with them if they were Marxist Leninist and still acknowledged history and reality. Unfortunately that's not the case.
We acknowledge history and reality. Calling all of us Tankies is such a cop out. Putin bad, Xi is pretty chill comparatively speaking to Putin. Lemmy.ml is a beacon of free speech and ideas compared to Lemmygrad and hexbear, where i have had multiple comments deleted when I wrote well thought put arguments around voting for the lesser of 2 evils to be the best course of action to protect the Prolitariat while forming the Class Conciousness necessary for any sort of true Marxist society to form. Yall calling anyone left of Democratic Socialist is reactionary af.
Beacon of free speech? That's not only a huge stretch, I'm gonnq say thats bullshit altogether, go look at the modlog and you might change your mind. They delete and ban people for having different opinions, even when they have sources and evidence.
We acknowledge history and reality
Not in my experience. I've had 100% factual comments that include links to widely respected sources deleted with no explanation.
Lemmy.ml isn't even communist, that's just a mask for their authoritarian propaganda. I respect communists and I hate Lemmy.ml
This doesn't match the reality I've experienced there unfortunately. And I did give it the good old college try before giving up.
See a lot of us who frequently call out Tankies dont consider YOU a Tankie if what you state your opinions about Putin and Xi are true. A LOT of us are sick of people who supposedly care about oppressed classes sucking off dictators though.
I still can't stop associating ml with machine learning first š
I assumed that's what it stood for because it was listed as hosting tech-focused communities.
Yup, same. Well, half a year later I found out the hidden truth š and keep forgetting it every time, still
Also, "Marxism-Leninism" as a term was coined by Stalin, but there's a reason people avoid the term "Stalinism", because even these people understand that his horrific legacy can't be revised.
So whenever you hear the term, you can understand that it's basically Stalinism papered over with the names of dead men who couldn't object to him puppeteering them and coopting their legacy to lend legitimacy to his reign of terror.
I thought it meant machine learning :(
In short, it is politics.
Lemmy.ml is full of socialists! Edit: really
I wish.
I love socialism and keep engaging but all too often itās people glorifying dictators.
!tankiejerk@lemmy.world is the syntax for linking to communities. I feel itās used too rarely on Lemmy, leading to the slow propagation of information and few people using the unique features that make the lemmyverse navigable. Iād never manage to reach the communities Iām searching for if not for easy linking.
Oh, TIL. Is there any specific documentation for syntax like this for lemmy?
Will edit it in when I find more but this is Lemmyās markdown tutorial. It covers a few items uniqueish to lemmy, especially cool are magnet links, but Iām not sure where they keep info about other unique features. Offhandedly, the only other thing I can think of is linking to profiles with @Gullible@sh.itjust.works. (This does ping the user, btw)
Edit: I got nothing, itās impossible to find and/or doesnāt exist. No other option. But if someone else finds it, a link would be helpful.
Ohh yeah, look at all those notifications. That feels good. Oh god, I'm close. Oh god.
Wait, I though lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml were about machine learning and gradient stuff
that would be nice š
ml is okayish compared to hexbear lol
I thought at first it was some fun leftist lgbt place but quickly I ran into violent bloodthirsty comments that made my skin crawl. there are also many of my lovely fellow transfems over there ugh. it is really sad when people are lost into the void of extremism. But I donāt really blame them however I grieve them.
What we really need is a Schism, and for all the ml domains to defederate from the rest of the lemmyverse, and just become their own thing.
What we really need is a Schism, and for all the ml domains to defederate from the rest of the lemmyverse, and just become their own thing.
But due its size, it's also full of regular people. !linux@lemmy.ml is a good Linux community. Why block the entire instance when the Mao fanboys are just active in certain politics communities?
It takes minutes to create an account on an instance, it's not hard to move a community.
You can move a community with all subscribers? How? Does this work if the server was already defederated? Why defederate an entire server if only specific communities are problematic? Just block those.
Basically set up a community with the same name on another instance, and say "everyone go over there"
If it's done officially by the mods, then the new community becomes the official one.
And that statement is one nobody can read because the server has already been defederated. Doesn't sound like the best idea. Just block the Mao fanboy communities you don't like. Definitely a lower impact than blocking sane communities on that server like !Linux@lemmy.ml for everyone.
Actually, those annoying dorks are no great loss either.
Yay! Another meta echo chamber! /s
It actually would be a good thing. Pariah instances are how the fediverse will have to moderate itself, and these people have shown themselves to be incapable of playing well with others. I purposely avoided joining any of their subs because I saw how toxic their influence was on reddit.
If you look at peertube, there's one instance that hosts Steven Crowder and Alex Jones and like two other people who I assume are lesser demons of some kind. I would avoid any instance that doesn't have the good sense to defederate from that one. This is a similar thing. I doubt the tankies are going to be on the popular side of the schism if it happens, they would have an echo chamber and we would be rid of them.
The thing about an echo chamber like that is that thanks to the public nature of federation status, it would be obvious who the pariah instances are, so anyone still there would be made aware that they are the minority, not the voice of the people in any way. That's something that takes longer to notice in a forum like truth social. The numbers might be there for people to see, but it's a different platform so you can say there's a slow adoption rate or something, like you can say about Lemmy. With pariah instances there is a direct and obvious comparison, and people have left because your instance fucked up. That's going to drive all but the most hardcore folks away to other instances.
I welcome diversity of opinion. I may accidentally learn something. If I find a poster or instance I find particularly distasteful, I can block them. No need to censor unless it's human trafficking, CSA., gore, and especially the American exceptionalist vote blue/maga stuff.
I'm not particularly into right or left wing authoritarianism, but I enjoy learning something beyond typical American propaganda.
This isn't about diversity of opinion. I will happily talk to a tankie and explain why I think they are wrong, unless they're a toxic asshole in which case I will simply point out that fact. The problem is when tankies get in charge of forums they behave like toxic assholes, and then yeah, I think we should ditch that forum.
What's stopping you from blocking a particular instance? Why do you want to block it from me?
Nobody is blocking you from it. You can go find an instance that doesn't defederate. You can make an account with them. Literally nobody is stopping you.
If the admins of your instance agree it should be defederated and you disagree, then I guess that instance isn't a good fit for you.
This isn't like... a difficult concept, so I have to ask what it is about it that you're struggling with.
Ohh, the "no you!" H hit me in the feels!
If you can't even be bothered to write a coherent sentence then I have to say I'm not too concerned about what you have to say.
apparently they were manipulating votes, banned for it on my instance at least. i didnāt even know that was a thing, which makes all this defederation discourse so much more depressing !?
Oh wow... vote manipulation how? Like using alts or something else? How do you detect this? I am so curious now.
no clue of how. i just noticed a suspiciously symmetrical jump in the numbers and i reported it off a hunch. i wasnāt at all sure until my admin dmād me to confirm i was right (i assume admins can see the IDs and times of votes and triangulate off that but thatās just a guess)
I don't think you understand just how persistent these people can be, Internet Communist is their personality. The last time I looked, all their memes were thinly veiled jabs at capitalism, or the US, or about their politics in some way, they find a way to shoehorn it into every single conversation.
They're also in support of almost everything Russia does, including invading their neighbours, and opposed to everything the US does.
They're awful, they're abrasive, and they get everywhere.
Internet Communist is their personality
Not really, it's their facade. They're not actually communists, it's just a mask they use to spread CCP and Kremlin propaganda. Plus their paid to do it, they're not authentic.
ooh i never knew about the crowder/jones peertube thing, thanks for this analysis!
also for those downvoting you, itās not really even an echo chamber. my instance defederates both, nevertheless i hear about shit that goes down on .ml literally daily, same as i am still well aware of the latest on crowder and jones.
defederation literally just means iām spared the curse of having to deal with the shit firsthand. i still have no lack of understanding of the positions involved.
Then block the instance for yourself. If I get tied of it, I can do that for myself. No reason you should be my Internet guardian.
ur fighting with shadows homie. my instance is not yours. no reason for you to feel threatened by me expressing my experience.
A lot of people in the lemmy.world instance loves to spend time making threads about .ml or lemmygrad. Sounds like unnecessary drama at least for the lemmy.ml instance.
yeah and im sure they do all that just for fun not for any material reason at all its just for the sheer joy of it
material reasons???? Sounds communist.
ur so right communists have a monopoly on the word āmaterialā my bad
*our world
"Guys guys guys, lets federate so everyone can be connected everywhere!"
" Guys guys guys, why are you so occupied talking about these awful instances that we're intrinsically linked too via federation? gawd, so much unnecessary drama"
Tankies, you can keep jumping servers because we blocked your old servers, and we'll just keep blocking you. No one is interested in your brain damage
It's pretty obvious a ton of them have .world alts now and just brigade from those.
Tag em in app whenever you see em, makes life easier.
Mines a lemm.ee alt thank you very much
Lemmy.ml is still focused on FOSS and Privacy, Lemmygrad.ml is focused on Marxism-Leninism. As such, there are plenty of non-MLs on Lemmy.ml, including Anarchist communities, while this is banned on Lemmygrad.ml.
Very different instances, I wouldn't call Lemmygrad.ml "mask off" Lemmy.ml.
Except lemmygrad users are realizing we all blocked their instance and are becoming more active in lemmy.ml to try and evade this, and so yeah, .ml is getting more and more like Lemmygrad
Can't wait for this to become a systemic issue with Lemmy. Why does everything have to be ruined by tankies and conservatives? They know that nobody wants to talk to them, but they will evade and disrespect the rules just to make other people miserable.
What a sad hobby.
Tbh, I'm not super worried, theres already been defederation with Hexbear and Lemmygrad. As they infect tanky safezones and cause more defederations because of it, non tankie specific federations are going to start becoming specifically anti Tankie in response. I mean, look at my comment calling them brain damaged, it hasnt been civility removed yet, which I feel is a good sign. So while they can always create new accounts on non Tankie federations, over time they are going to start having to hide their more violent revolution and dictator loving sides, which tbh, at that point I'll tolerate their presence.
Edit: It's kind of ironic how in a post where I called other people brain damaged, I wrote it like I was having a stroke. I've edited it to make it flow faaaaarrr better
This is the part I find hilarious. MLs think the reason people don't like their outdated brand of communism is because they are brainwashed. The reality is that people don't like their outdated brand of communism because tankies are insufferable, know-it-all autocrats who refuse to engage with any modern formulation of Marxist theory.
If MLs would be more academically engaged with contemporary political science, people would like their messaging much more. Of course then they'd probably realize that Lenin and Mao were just giant assholes, so I guess it's a bit of a paradox.
They don't want to engage because communism is just a facade for them to spread CCP and Kremlin propaganda. They're not actually communists.
I mean, their messaging IS shit, but I think one of the biggest flaws that cant be overcome even if they started acting less insufferably is that they are ok with and will defend tooth and nail any dictator that says they are communist. I do not for one second believe that Xi or Putin has ANY intention of furthering LGBTQ politics for instance. Tankies whole ideology isnt thought through and HEAVILY conflicting
There's a joke (or possibly simple wisdom) about a bar that's worth discussing here.
Is it similar to the story about a table, but for the other side of the aisle?
I don't know the story about a table. Which is surprising, because I grew up in a bright red community where delivering pithy metaphors about the futility of breaking bread with the opposition was sport. (For the record, I wouldn't break bread with Nazis.)
Its "If a table of 9 lets 1 Nazi sit at that table, it's a table of 10 Nazi's" or something like that
Oh, no, it's exactly that. "If you let one Nazi into the bar, congrats you have a Nazi bar."
Tankies are reactionaries.
Literally, the Bolsheviks were the reactionaries that suppressed and appropriated the Russian revolution, and said they were doing it at the time. 'M-L' is stalinism.
They're just red star brand conservative reactionaries.
This is just a very braindead take. Not all types of authoritarian mindset are reactionary. Red fascism is an absurd take which was originated by CIA propaganda in the 50s.
Your critique of authoritarian states, does not make them equal. That is a centerist take that smells like a moral jerk off ritual.
Could argue that, and if you brought up Cuba I might lose, but it's not the argument here.
Tankies, for historical reasons, with their Russia fetish, are reactionary. They fetishize a group of shitty reactionaries who killed all the communists (auth and otherwise). The origin of why we call them 'tankies' is a second wave of them being reactionaries who murdered all the communists.
It's really clear at many levels.
Believe it or not, in the age those tankies lived, shit wasn't easy. Trying to sabotage every meaningful conversation by hur dur tanky stuff is rather more braindead than being a conservative. Political change is messy, violent and fucked up in nature. Tankies committed atrocities and also provided some great shit to people who had nothing, like free healthcare and education, abortion rights and in 2 decades became an industrial nation.
Did they did a lot of wrongs? Yeah. Should we learn from them, yeah, did they also delivered, well they delivered, although with great price.
I'm typing this from a country so fucked up economically and politically, that you westerners won't understand. But trying to magnify and dilute the conversation with weird moral optics does not make lives of us 3rd worlders easier. You want to ride your moral high horse while every political inaction will stump hundreds in a minute.
They betrayed and stole the revolution, almost every other group involved would have done better.
In not shitting on them for being messy. I'm shitting on them for killing all the communists.
Tell that to the citizens of Tambov and Kronstadt sailors in the 1920s.
A lot of them are shills/bots. The Kremlin (maybe also the CCP, not sure) is supporting a bunch of political extremes, whether they agree with them or not.
Divide and conquer in a digital age.
Think of shitty kids who like to wreck everything they touch. Whenever they try to make their own clubhouse, it usually doesn't last long because they wind up wrecking it themselves. And while they like to wreck things, they don't actually like living in a wrecked clubhouse. They want to be able to wreck things and laugh as others suffer from their damage and have to fix it. So they invade other clubhouses because their own is always a fucking mess.
Have any Conservative instances been de-federated, or are there any? I've noticed a HUGE influx of 'Men's Rights' misogynists, wondering if they came from that happening.
It's not a hobby, they're paid by the CCP/Kremlin.
Both can be true at the same time
Nah. Gig economy. Know anyone who can keep their shit down to one job these days?
It's probably not, I think a lot of tankies are true believers (nobody pays for sponsored content in pillow talk. Yet. Yes ive made bad decisions.) but it could be.
Hey, that's not fair - many of them are paid by the RNC to turn off left leaning voters.
No they do it for free. These aren't paid assets they're angsty disaffected teens.
Some are useful idiots, the core is paid shills. I'd be surprised if they're not also starting to use LLMs.
If they don't get talking points directly from a trollfarm, someone influential over there watches a lot of Russian propaganda.
On the other hand, they do love yelling at libs to stop supporting the Gaza genocide, so I like them until they also start bitching about fighting a fascist invasion.
Pick your goddamn lane
They want to amplify the atrocities Israel is committing in Gaza because it increases the probability Trump gets elected, which would be a huge win for the Kremlin.
I'd guess there's backroom deal making with Iran as well given the political dynamics there.
How? Its already a fucking deathklok show.
And whose fucking fault is that?
That would be the fault of the idiots who'd rather see the literal authoritarian mad man come to power again than vote for Biden.
The suffering in Gaza has to stop but not voting Biden will have the opposite effect.
Could've run anyone other than biden. Could have offered us something, anything, that we actually want.
Biden could have proven he deserved two hours of my time in the past four years. Literally all he has to do, and theres still time, is "blockade against Cuba over. Blockade against Israel begin. All humanitarian aid must go through Palestine, Palestinian authorities must approve every shipment at the border, get right to loot at leisure"
Hell, they could even offer some of the accelerationist/unserious trump votes an actually good option to fucking engage them and take fascism off the table. They could do that. They don't.
And when they do win with a good candidate, they still roll over and let the fascist have the seat (last time they ran a good candidate was 2000), so even if I did like someone and want to vote for them, if I see a D by their name, I know even if they win, they'll never take office.
If you offer me a trolley problem, and I ask "why the fuck do you keep tying people to the other track, dude? What the fuck!?" And then after the fifth or six time just stop, I just stop signing off on your murders and step off the murder trolley, I'm not the monster here. ... Actually, this is literally a description of a scene in 'the good place', and it's a literal demon doing it to a terminally indecisive moral philosophy professor. Because its comically evil. Literally its a comedy and the audience is supposed to laugh at the absurdity of how pointlessly evil it is, and its the perfect metaphor for the democratic party.
I have an account on lemmygrad and when I created it, I was asked about my politics. They formally accepted every left ideology but when you say anything remotely anti-authoritarian, you get downvoted into oblivion
Mind boggling. Like seriously, I am as left wing as they come and for me that is defined by anti-authoritarian views. Fascists aren't bad because they are the wrong kind of fascist.
to be fair, tankies are the fascist skinwalkers wearing the visage of the lefties they killed
Oh shit. I now I dont know if I like this, or "Leftist version of a Nazi Brony" more
Almost literally, if you know jack shit about the Russian revolution.
I've recently come to the conclusion that they are the leftist version of Nazi Bronies, like, dude, you're one of the first populations that your preferred rulers are going to purge.
Nah. People like that end up being pushed into paramilitary shit or the bureaucracy.
I totally agree with you. That said, tankies will argue some shit why they are further left. You can go into that discussion about the semantics of left and distract from the fact that tankies are evil. Or stop "gatekeeping" leftness and argue why they are bad.
Not doubting you, but what do you mean by "anti-authouritarian?" Presumably you've read Engels' On Authority so you know what they are operating under the pretense of, I can see anti-Marxist takes getting removed or downvoted. It is Lemmygrad after all, not Lemmy EZLN or Lemmy Catalonia.
I didn't mean to disagree with you. Just add that they are formally open to other leftist viewpoints but not effectively.
And yes, you will get alot of strawmans like Engels' On Authority. If you want an analysis of the text, this video debunks it quite well
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
this video debunks it quite well
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Lenin had some disagreements with Marx, i dont even like marx ans lenin is worse, and 'marxist lenninist' means 'stalinist'. Which is even worse. You cannot call them 'leftists'.
What is a leftist, if not someone advocating collective owmership of Capital? Leftist isn't a syononym for "good," of course, but I fail to see how Marxist-Leninists aren't leftists.
In the USSR the serfs were still serfs even if they weren't called that, the workers still didn't own the means of production, and there was still a tiny room of delusional shit sticks making all the decisions, often wildly irrationally.
Better than one guy doing it, but no more, or not much more communist than the UK or France.
The USSR was a Worker State, owned and run by the workers. Soviet Democracy was the base model of decision making, along the formation of Democratic Centralism.
There were numerous struggles and issues with the USSR, of course. There was corruption, especially among the Politburo. The focus on heavy industry over light industry, though favorable during WWII, resulted in fewer luxury commodities, which resulted in liberalization and collapse.
Fundamentally, it is entirely silly to say that the USSR wasn't leftist. It absolutely was, even if it was highly flawed and imperfect. In fact, it's useful to analyze what went right (free eduaction, high home ownership, generous social safety net) and what went wrong (corruption, lack of luxury commodities, etc.) so as to come up with a better system.
That is, unless you think Marxism isn't leftist, and think only Anarchism counts as leftist, in which case I really don't know what to tell you.
The Bolsheviks killed all the communists. Including the Marxists.
That's certainly a statement, backed up by nothing but posturing and not an ounce of analysis.
If you can meaningfully explain how Lenin and the Bolsheviks were not Marxists, I'd be very surprised, but I am willing to hear your case. What do you believe would have been the Marxist structure? The same as the USSR, just without the corruption? Is it just vibes and aesthetics?
Marxist? Maybe. But they skirted around the edges and avoided any unpleasant communism.
As shown by the fact they basically dismantled all the soviets and turned them into some parliamentary shit?
The justification for replacing the factory committees with the union system is because the factory committees were focusing competitively on local issues, rather than cooperatively at a national level. I don't believe this makes it less leftist. This improved productivity in a time when the factories were more chaotic.
How would you propose the Bolsheviks could have handled the situation in a more thoroughly Communist manner, given what they had to work with at the time?
Dude I'm not going to keep arguing with someone who tries to defend that shit.
Marx was, and I couldn't stand reading that bastard because of how he talked about the 'lumpenproletariat', that shit made my blood boil, so maybe I'm missing something, pretty vague on specific structures of post revolutionary organization. More about what communism was and how to get it.
And its very cute to say the state is the workers, but when they have to switch to building impractical useless products to keep up with the irrational demands of the state, or be punished I think its pretty clearly unmasked as a lie, and blatantly insane to still claim.
I'm not claiming any one group or ideology owns the Russian revolution-it was a big tent, it was a big fight, and it took place over, at any given moment, at least half the day. Which is wild. I'm saying the Bolsheviks were reactionaries. They knew they were reactionaries. And they killed the communists.
What made you upset about the Lumpenproletariat? Either way, Marx describes a bit about what a Socialist state might look like in Critique of the Gotha Programme, but is careful not to actually decide anything or give a template.
I understand that you are saying the Bolsheviks were reactionaries. The Bolsheviks claimed the Anarchists were counter-revolutionaries. What evidence do you have that the Bolsheviks were against implementing Socialism and eventually Communism?
Reactionary is specifically used for enemies of the revolution, not the ones carrying it out.
I am not defending the killing of the Anarchists, but questioning the language of "reactionary" as used by you.
There is the fascist
In what manner at all? Fascism is fucking horrible. I am recommending about Marx and Engels as examples of Leftists. Unless, of course, you think Communism is fascist, in which case I really don't know what to tell you.
Meanwhile at c/worldnews they remove replies where people disagree that Ukraine is run by fascists and Putin should take it.
.ml is rapidly becoming the joke of the fediverse with how unapologetically they hand out bans for even mild wrong think.
That's a straight lie. ML will quickly ban you for pointing out Russian astroturfing and Russian propaganda, but they barely give a shit about anything else.
Got any fun or good examples?
Other than just browsing the modlog (actually do it from .ml since they seem to selectively federate the logs these days) The asklemmy thread about fediverse trolls is pretty much a perfect example of the .ml mods/admins falling over themselves to ban any dissent as "incivility" while letting actual trolls get away with actual incivility.
Just realized that .ml is a domain hack for tankies. Go figure.
There are people who think they're at all different?
I'm pretty sure lemmygrad was explicitly created to be the mask off equivalent of .ml
i donāt know that people think they are different per se, but i do see a strange sense of shock that the same people annoyed with one might also be annoyed at the other
Oh please. Everyone knows individuality is sold at Hollister.
There are users who donāt know why .ml was the domain that was used, only that it was the original instance so thatās what they chose to sign up with.
Yep when I first joined I thought it stood for main Instance.
I leave them unblocked, I like seeing the crazies sometimes
absolutely a valid position to have
Thanks I need to get the wiggles out sometimes too
I block individuals. I think it can be good to expose myself to the eastern narrative a little since I'm only experiencing a western narrative. As well as eastern shitpost's since I subscribe to 4chan
Most non-bots are from United States and know nothing about eastern narrative other than what russian and Chinese bots are feeding them.
I find your innocence thinking the western narrative is not managed by CIA bots and shills, a bit cute. Just look at any discourse regarding Israel and Palestine and see how braindead liberals become bloodthirsty af when they realize many in the world don't share their worldview.
Love the name btw
Thank you š„¹
Wait, what's lemmygrad?? I incorrectly inferred that lemmygrad was a disparaging name for lemmy.ml
https://lemmygrad.ml/
Neat, we're not federated with them
Good for you. I blocked that instance the second that was an option.
the fediverse is turning into a collection of echo chambers due to this and now i'm wondering if it's worth it to back to reddit.
no matter how bad it might seem here I can promise reddit is a thousand times worse
There are instances that don't defederate at all. Or block piracy communities.
Let me give an example: I have a friend on Bluesky. He's as middle of the road as it's possible to be (and I say that in an entirely neutral way; it makes him neither better nor worse than anyone). He's nice, and a good person. But he's aggressive, disruptive, a fight-picker, and a single-issue conversationalist on social media. Bluesky seems to have a disproportionate number of people who are very nice, well-meaning, but aggressive and disruptive. I left Bluesky to exit an echo chamber for something more serene. I think that's one thing the loud folk don't quite get, regardless of their ideology: not all of us are here to yell and throw things all the time.
Why does this feel like a dark family secret.
They're our crazy uncle that we try to keep locked in the basement but sometimes guests hear the crazed incomprehensible ranting from the cellar door.
Newbie here, do I not see lemmygrad stuff on my "all" feed because I am on the shitjustworks instance?
I can pull it up in the search bar, but don't seem able to subscribe.
I probably need to watch a newbs guide to the fediverse video or something. Like I understand the basic idea, but not the nuances or technical stuff.
defed.xyz lets you check.
looks like your instance is defederated by lemmygrad, so thatās probably whatās up.
Yea I knew I had start looking up who is federated with whom. Thanks for the link!
no problem im always forgetting this specific link too, but itās really handy :)
Yeah. Also, your instance is pretty well known for doing little about the vast numbers of hard right and alt right individuals on it who seek out and harass left leaning individuals, so itās in both instances best interest to be separated.
Thanks for the heads up. Outside of a couple instances I see mentioned all the time, Im not really sure of the differences between them all and their reputations. Lemmy world was my first attempt, but two or three times the account creation did not work. I'm sure it was user error, but I'm not sure how exactly I messed up.
Really? I just joined it cause I thought the instance name was hilarious.
LOL
yes! @TheDude@sh.itjust.works doesn't like grad and defederated from them.
here's why in their own words:
Actually, there was a vote immediately after the defederation to see whether people wanted lemmygrad refederated, and about 80-90% of the votes were to stay defederated, so it seems the users of sh.itjust.works also don't like grad.
edit: my mistake, turns out it was hexbear that was voted on, which has similar content
Itās worth noting about your edit: Iām pretty sure hexbear was the one that initiated defederation from shit over shit posters being transphobic and harassing users in dms.
You are correct, hexbear did defederate from sh.itjust.works about a week after federating with them, so the vote became moot.
The reason you gave is part of the reason hexbear admins gave, but I would take what they say with a grain of salt. I've seen people say things like "being trans in thoughts is a much different experiece than being trans in the way you dress, act, and look" and hexbear users will call that transphobic/uninclusive, as well as generally being vitriolic and unpleasant.
As an example, a post where someone says "Biden brings up minimum wage increase and asks other democrats to speak up" will have several comments from hexbear users saying "capitalist bootlickers defending Biden should be shot like the vermin they are." Maybe some users harassed hexbear users for these comments? I personally didn't see any but it's definitely possible.
Lol
Transphobia in DM's
Wow what the fuck
Why do they run two lemmy instances?
When everyone dislikes your poorly thought out reactions and you respond to that disdain with calls for nuking entire hemispheres of the only planet we can live on, you kinda have to hide your identity/ideologies by way of obfuscation.
They seem proud and vocal in their echo chamber but these fools are weaker than a watery shit irl.
Bitch-made invertebrate shit-heels pretending to be tough with Molotov-sippy-cups.
Obfuscation. They know lemmygrad is too obviously tankie for most people, but lemmy.ml is not so obvious. The .ml is a dogwhistle that a lot of users won't understand, so they can buy some measure of legitimacy that way. I guess they keep lemmygrad because they also want a place where they can go full mask-off.
If your theory is correct, then why would they also keep many of their users uninformed? Referring to Lemmy.ml, of course. You claim it's for legitimacy, but doesn't that cease to fulfill its purpose? Is the goal to make a generalist instance, but with slightly more MLs, but also divert the MLs to Lemmygrad?
I'm not sure your theory is correct, I think Lemmy.ml is just what it says it is: a generalist, FOSS and Privacy focused instance run by the devs, who are MLs.
Because the users that don't know what the instance is for are the ones that help lend legitimacy to it, because then people like you can believe that it's just a general instance with no political undertones. You aren't running cover for them, you are their cover.
Just think for a second about what you're suggesting. They want to make an instance that is to lend legitimacy to a fringe political ideology, and they openly tell all of their users that that's exactly what they're doing? Then all anyone would need to do to destroy that legitimacy would be to publish whatever message the users receive explaining the true purpose of the instance. The cover only works if it's deniable, and your idea would make it completely undeniable.
That is one of the goals, yes.
Sorry, I really think this is ridiculous. Is Lemmy.world a cover for Liberalism, because it's run by liberals? Is db0 a cover for Anarchism and Libertarian Socialism, because db0 is a Libertarian Socialist? This is just red-scare style paranoia.
The very existance of Lemmygrad.ml should prove that there is an explicitly Marxist-Leninist space for MLs, and Lemmy.ml is a generalist instance for people who don't care enough about that but want a server dedicated to FOSS and Privacy.
Liberals and libertarian socialists are usually pretty open about what they believe, so there's no cover needed. They're not covert ideologies like tankies have.
However neoliberalism is a fairly hated ideology. If the people who ran lemmy.world were literally the same people running a neoliberalism sub on that instance and they also ran thatcher.love or whatever, and they banned people for saying neoliberalism was trash, then yeah, it would be a reasonable inference that lemmy.world was some sort of entryist ploy.
It is the existence of lemmygrad combined with the behaviour of the people running lemmy.ml that makes the case to defederate. If that happens and you don't like it, you could always migrate your account, unless you like it there, in which case you're probably not the normie you first appeared to be.
Edit: changed "fringe" to "covert".
Completely tangential, but imma be real with you: libsocs are fringe too.
Indeed, socialism of any sort is pretty fringe in most of the West.
That's a fair point, although I would say socialism is becoming less fringe, and it seems like the various types of libsoc are the main forms of socialism because people have seen the failures of state based solutions, even amongst demsocs/socdems.
That said, I kind of agree and the word "fringe" didn't sit quite right. On reflection a better word would be "covert", since ideologies that explicitly want to dominate people tend to hide what they are, since they know it's not acceptable to state their aims up front. That's really the idea I was getting at.
Fair
Lemmy.world regularly bans Marxist-Leninists, it is a two-way street there.
Again, I truly don't see how Lemmygrad taking the marxist-leninists means Lemmy.ml is a cover for Marxism-Leninism, it's a non-political community focused on FOSS and Privacy.
Just for being marxist-leninists? Or because they were toxic assholes?
Anecdotally I have seen Marxist-Leninists calmly arguing in politics communities banned for being "tankies." I will admit, I do not have any examples on-hand.
So do they regularly do this, or is it a thing you've seen anecdotally?
And if the thing they were calmly arguing was genocide denial, then the ban was warranted. The tone is not the only thing that matters.
Imagine if someone defended nazis with "they were calmly denying the Holocaust". I've seen far too many tankies denying the Uyghur genocide every chance they get. Like you say, it doesn't matter the tone; genocide denial is itself a line you don't cross.
I canāt find a reputable international human rights organization that calls it a genocide. Human Rights violations, sure. Crimes against humanity, maybe, but not genocide.
If itās a genocide, why hasnāt it been taken to the International Court of Justice?
I dont have data on it, sorry to say.
I do. I had a post removed from political memes because apparently people didnāt like the fact that a Nazi was made a chairman in NATO. Adolf Heusinger
We know that, it's the implication that that somehow justifies Russia invading Ukraine is what makes you a tankie.
That was never brought up in the post or the comments. The post was removed for āmisinformation,ā when it is completely factual. The commenters first countered that it wasnāt true. He wasnāt actually a Nazi. He wasnāt a chairman. When that failed, they focused on the pedantry of āaā chairman versus ātheā chairman. And I guess it was reported and removed.
Just pointing out that the same exclusionary tribalism happens on .world as it happens on .ml and Lemmygrad.
If that were the case, we wouldn't see a single rightwinger over here. Unfortunately, there are many.
Yes, moderation is famously capable of immediately removing every single toxic asshole in any forum.
"itās a non-political community focused on FOSS and Privacy." -moderated and controlled at least somewhat by tankies who will delete your comment and possibly ban you for saying things about their flavour of communism that they dont like
The whole reason this was posted is because of the users posting they got banned from ml for stating facts that tankies disagree with.
Such as?
They'll ban you for acknowledging the existence of the Uyghur genocide, for one
Edit: wording
Or calling out russian and chinese talking points. And then they have the same 10 users popping up whenever the instances are criticized saying "akshally privacy and no tanks..." (see above)
Lmao one of the Tankies let their Hexbuddies know about this thread and they've started mass downvoting
I do know they like to follow me....
Eta: its funny how often the threads they brigade start off with the common shill thoughts getting downvoted and actual leftist thought upvoted only for it to shift as the threads pick up steam. Im not convinced its possible to win this fight, if im honest.
Also, note the sheer absurd amount of comments in this thread for something with (atm) 338 points. They always do this and act like its not happening.
I mean. I block all the ones brave enough to actually post something. So up and downvoting is the only noticable way left they impact me. I consider that a win as it allows me to enjoy lemmy a whole lot more
Maybe because no human rights organizations, nor the United Nations have labeled it a genocide. Human rights violations, yes. Crimes against humanity, yes. Genocide, no.
Merely using the word Tankie has gotten me bigotry ruled recently. .ml is infected with Tankies regardless of what other people use it for.
Edit: Oooh, the Tankie Brigade are here
ML wasn't machine learning? š±
It's actually Mali, as in, the country.
and twitch.tv stands for tuvalu! definitely not television
And all the .io startups aren't located in the Indian Ocean!
Lemmy.ml is focused on FOSS and Privacy, and is generally a "generalist" instance with that FOSS and Privacy slant.
Lemmygrad.ml is an explicitly Marxist-Leninist instance for Marxist-Leninists.
They really aren't comparable instances outside of the dev connection.
Good thing you can block instances. : )
I don't think that's a good solution. If I personally block an instance they can still see my comments and posts and have full conversations alongside them that everybody except me can read. I reserve blocking for genuine harrasment, not horrible ideas in general. I'd rather be part of the discussion and use that to build a case for defederation if it's really so bad I'd want to block them.
Agreed, and I think defederation from Lemmy.ml is overdue.
They're a toxic mouthpiece for authoritarian governments pretending to be communists, especially the CCP but also the Kremlin. They're the reason I won't even admit to anyone that I use Lemmy.
I had an old account I abandoned because they followed me around and downvoted everything I posted. Most of it was funny memes I was posting to help Lemmy grow.
They're the same trashy people as Hexbear but with a nicer mask and surrounded by legitimate users who don't realize what's going on.
It's not enough that you ignore views you don't like, you must apparently stop everyone else on the same instance(s) as you from seeing these views. For our protection and safety, I assume?
I just don't have the time or energy to deal with the toxic behaviour of those people. I don't run an instance, the one I use doesn't block others, but I block some instances for my personal account. Nothing wrong with that.
Nothing wrong with blocking instances yourself. My issue is with people who take it upon themselves to mount a campaign to block instances for all other users on an instance.
I have an issue with people who mount a campaign to stop defederation regardless of who it's targeting.
sigh
All together now:
"If users don't like that their instance has defederated then they can migrate their accounts."
I have yet to see a real answer to this from people who concern troll about defederation.
Or, more simply, if you don't like the instance then you can block it yourself. That's what the feature is for. It's not concern trolling to point out that I don't want people like you choosing which instances I get to see from which instances I use.
It's much easier for you to use the block feature as intended instead of you screaming at instance maintainers to censor content for everyone on that instance you don't like and making people create accounts all over different instances just because you can't handle a different opinion. Why needlessly fracture the fediverse because of your personal preferences?
sigh
"Blocking is a band-aid that doesn't remove the problem community from interacting with your community at large, which is how you limit the ability of that community to spread their harmful behaviour."
Also, I don't choose, the instance admins choose. Nothing I say will change that. If I successfully convince them, then they were convincable. If you don't like that... change instances.
"Problem community", huh? Now that's concern trolling! You're just concerned about others being exposed to a nebulous "problem community"?
Why do you think you get to decide for others what a "problem community" is? I've seen people like you rally together to scream at instance maintainers to block other instances because you don't like their opinions. Stop being a fediverse karen and use the block function or, if you're such a control freak, maintain your own instance.
I'm sorry, do you think the concept of a "problem community" is somehow not a concept that makes sense? What is your argument here exactly?
Are you trying to say that defederation should never be done? If not, then what are you saying?
Funny how ur comments were the ones upvoted up a few hrs ago and the other commenter downvoted.... hmmmmmmm......
I just got this comment about how some of these folks were vote manipulating: https://lemmy.cafe/comment/5417577
I have no idea exactly what that means but I am fascinated to learn more. It makes the concern trolling even more of a troll in that case. Like I seriously wonder what's behind it if this is happening, because these "no defederate PLZZZZ!!1!" folks are so rabid and they keep recycling the same tired, vapid arguments that they don'teven bother to defend. Like are they just trying to sabotage the fediverse by spreading FUD about the main tool we have for preventing it from sliding into pure toxicity?
Fascinating, and u just got downvoted for this xD.
I left a more in depth reply there, but all these accounts only purpose is to spoil our election in the states so we install a dictator.
Paradox of tolerance, my good friend.
the paradox of tolerance applies to the intolerant. all leftists are tolerant people and the strawman that we use to describe a tankie is not a leftist.
That's fair. I'm a filthy casual and thus blocking instances works fine for me (3 so far). User comments from those instances are shown to me with a spoiler tag and when I click on them I can still see them and even comment on them. But I'm happy that posts from those instances don't show up in my feed.
That's actually a pretty good solution, I didn't realise it worked like that.
Maybe instance blocking is a solution I can use in that case...
Hi just migrated from Lemmy.ml. just wondering what a tankie actually is? I've heard it used a lot especially on Lemmy. My guess is some kind of pro CCP kind of communist but that's my best guess
Edit: Nvm just googled it. Its pretty much what I wrote.
yeah you p much got it, (e: specifically they are v v chill with violence against innocents and authoritarianism to bring about their chosen regime. im already getting downvoted in this comment tho so yeah just go look at the wikipedia page š)
Does that mean most Americans are tankies when it comes to Israel's ongoing genocide of Palestinians š¤
**Clearly struck a cord with the bloodthirsty genocide supporters
Tankie is a term exclusively used for communists.
Oh yeah I forgot. Communism is bad, but mass killing brown Muslims is fine because they're subhuman cannon fodder for furthering America's Military Industrial Complex. Thanks for clearing that up.
Try harder.
Communism isn't bad per se, authoritarianism is, but there are many authoritarian regimes going under the name 'communist', thus we have a term for that: tankie. Using different terms to describe the Israeli state (like fascist, ethno-nationalist, or Zionist) and its supporters does not mean it's not bad. It really is! It's just categorically different in the ideology espoused by them, and having language to describe that is not bad.
Intentionally missing the point of the irony behind Americans using words that allude to ignoring a genocide while actively ignoring a genocide they're tax dollars are funding.
I honestly canāt tell if youāre just a troll or actually this stupid.
American perspective: opposing genocide is stupid
Words have meaning you know. That is just the meaning of the word tankie. If you fail to understand that, I feel sorry for you.
plenty of the people leveraging the word ātankieā against tankies are communists, or at least socialists, just less authoritarian ones. and iād venture to guess that the vast majority of those people are anti-genocide, including the case of Gaza.
please take the smallest of measures to understand the positions at foot before stuffing straw men into everyoneās mouths. you look quite foolish here.
no that doesnāt mean that. tankies are communist. most americans are not generally communists
Depends on whether the person saying it is a fellow leftie or a rightwinger brainlet. To the first, it's what you described - an anti-Marxist communist. To the second group, anyone left of Nixon.
IMO a tankie on the left is just a pure anti-west authoritarian cosplaying as a communist - the communism is largely window dressing and they are generally perfectly happy defending Russia (obviously not communist) or authoritarian nonsense from China and other communist countries.
Wtf is an anti-Marxist communist? Is that like a swimmer that canāt swim? Arizona just outlawed abortion, and have senators speaking in tongues while praying on the floor of the house. President Biden is fully endorsing a genocide in the Middle East. Trump might become the first dictator of America.
And yaāll worried about
Get some GD perspective.
They're comment is wrong. But non-marxian communism exists. For example council communism.
But a Tankie is basically a Leninist/Stalinist/Maoist communist who dick rides authoritarianism.
Iāve always liked the idea of Council Communism, but I must admit I donāt know as much about it as I would like.
I just think itās silly to divide ourselves into camps, while we are essentially seeking the same goals.
Authoritarian "leftists" are not seeking the same goals as other leftists.
Neither are social democrats, but we take help where we can get it. If we exclude anyone anti-fascist, that division will be exploited. We canāt afford to lose sight of the true enemy, the billionaire ruling class.
Council communism is basically methadone therapy for Marxists, for those that can't make the leap to Anarchism. Council Communism is essentially indistinguishable (in practice, theory is a bit different) from Syndicalism.
As to campism: Somehow it's always the authoritarians calling for "left unity", that of course meaning "follow Stalin": Never, ever, do they sit down and actually consider the opinions of anti-auths. No, we don't have the same goals: They want to rule, we don't. And, no, we didn't forget the Bolsheviks allying with fascists to stab Anarchists in the back.
Why were the FBI okay with Anarchists, but not Marxists Leninist like the Black Panthers?
I can't speak for the FBI but bullshit needs disruption, anyways, and confusion is the first step to enlightenment. Of course the FBI should've started by disrupting themselves but you can't have everything in life.
Actually even the premise and also language used in that sentence makes me think we might be looking at a Discordian having infiltrated the FBI. What better place to author a zine than on Uncle Sam's dime?
Begone, tankie.
Iām a white, upper middle class boomer living in America who is registered independent, but consistently voted for Democrats for the past 28 years. I did vote for Ross Perot in ā92, because I wanted a third party. Iām as far removed from a ātankieā as you can get.
Why is it wrong to think for yourself and form your own opinions? Yaāll just want to hate on people to pretend you have some control in this chaotic world.
It makes me sad that so many want to spread hate instead of love.
To be fair, I only have you labaled as "tankie apologist" on my app.
And tankies poison the well, they are something to be concerned about even if worse things are happening.
Thatās fair. Iām more worried about climate change than the pettiness of leftist infighting, so I will continue to apologize for any group that is anti-capitalist.
Iām pragmatic enough to understand that when a planned economy comes, and it will, we may not have the time and opportunities to choose which structures replace capitalism. It may be an amalgamation of many socialist strategies.
I find it pointless to bicker over socialism, when fascism is the bigger threat. But it is entertaining.
That's fucking RICH, and that's coming from a lib who apparently only knows how to genocide for vast wealth and power.
Did you just own yourself? I donāt understand this convoluted cleverness.
I feel so owned right now. I may have to eat some ice cream.
In what way did your comment refute any point I made?
Just screaming into the abyssā¦ sad.
Nietzsche
Go troll in hell
Is that a Karl Kautsky quote?
man, I really need to create my own instance sometime.
I've not been on here long enough to know what this is about, anyone care to explain?
In case you havent been here long enough to know what a Tankie is, on top of what everyone else has shared: A Tankie is a Communist who thinks Russia and China have done nothing wrong, they'll try and make you think we call ALL communists/left leaning people Tankies, but no, the Tank part of Tankie comes from shit like Tiananmen Square where they used tanks to destroy their political opposition, and Tankies are perfectly fine with this/claim shit like Tiananmen Square is propoganda.
Tldr: Communist/Socialists/leftists who arent a fan of Russia and China's dictatorial tendencies? Not a Tankie. Communist who'll defend Russia and China to the point of thinking maybe Ukraine deserves to be invaded and that Taiwan should be absorbed by China? Tankie
Edit: Even more TL:Dr? They're the leftist version of a Nazi Brony
Edit the third: Tankies, downvotes by you hold as much meaning as a downvote on youtube does.. I saw the downvote count go from 1-6 in 15 minutes so you could make it look like as much people disagreed with me as agreed
Ah, that makes quite a lot of sense! Thank you!
The ml stands for Marxist Leninist. Basically, it means the admins of an instance ending in ml has been some revolting politics.
It actually stands for "Mali".
I understand that, but there's a reason they chose that domain, and that's why.
Its bc its cheap iirc, the second meaning was a plus tho im sure
And not just Marxist Leninism, but revanchist Marxist Leninism which denies the wrongdoing of not only Stalin and Mao but also Putin and Xi entirely and blames anything that happened in history or present on the West.
ie. Tankies.
I wouldn't really have much problem with them if they were Marxist Leninist and still acknowledged history and reality. Unfortunately that's not the case.
We acknowledge history and reality. Calling all of us Tankies is such a cop out. Putin bad, Xi is pretty chill comparatively speaking to Putin. Lemmy.ml is a beacon of free speech and ideas compared to Lemmygrad and hexbear, where i have had multiple comments deleted when I wrote well thought put arguments around voting for the lesser of 2 evils to be the best course of action to protect the Prolitariat while forming the Class Conciousness necessary for any sort of true Marxist society to form. Yall calling anyone left of Democratic Socialist is reactionary af.
Beacon of free speech? That's not only a huge stretch, I'm gonnq say thats bullshit altogether, go look at the modlog and you might change your mind. They delete and ban people for having different opinions, even when they have sources and evidence.
Not in my experience. I've had 100% factual comments that include links to widely respected sources deleted with no explanation.
Lemmy.ml isn't even communist, that's just a mask for their authoritarian propaganda. I respect communists and I hate Lemmy.ml
This doesn't match the reality I've experienced there unfortunately. And I did give it the good old college try before giving up.
See a lot of us who frequently call out Tankies dont consider YOU a Tankie if what you state your opinions about Putin and Xi are true. A LOT of us are sick of people who supposedly care about oppressed classes sucking off dictators though.
I still can't stop associating ml with machine learning first š
I assumed that's what it stood for because it was listed as hosting tech-focused communities.
Yup, same. Well, half a year later I found out the hidden truth š and keep forgetting it every time, still
Also, "Marxism-Leninism" as a term was coined by Stalin, but there's a reason people avoid the term "Stalinism", because even these people understand that his horrific legacy can't be revised.
So whenever you hear the term, you can understand that it's basically Stalinism papered over with the names of dead men who couldn't object to him puppeteering them and coopting their legacy to lend legitimacy to his reign of terror.
I thought it meant machine learning :(
In short, it is politics.
Lemmy.ml is full of socialists! Edit: really
I wish.
I love socialism and keep engaging but all too often itās people glorifying dictators.
Me when I see !tankiejerk@lemmy.world is leaking:
!tankiejerk@lemmy.world is the syntax for linking to communities. I feel itās used too rarely on Lemmy, leading to the slow propagation of information and few people using the unique features that make the lemmyverse navigable. Iād never manage to reach the communities Iām searching for if not for easy linking.
Oh, TIL. Is there any specific documentation for syntax like this for lemmy?
Will edit it in when I find more butthis is Lemmyās markdown tutorial. It covers a few items uniqueish to lemmy, especially cool are magnet links, but Iām not sure where they keep info about other unique features. Offhandedly, the only other thing I can think of is linking to profiles with @Gullible@sh.itjust.works. (This does ping the user, btw)Edit: I got nothing, itās impossible to find and/or doesnāt exist. No other option. But if someone else finds it, a link would be helpful.
@Lemminary@lemmy.world
@Lemminary@lemmy.world
@Lemminary@lemmy.world
@Lemminary@lemmy.world
@Lemminary@lemmy.world
Ohh yeah, look at all those notifications. That feels good. Oh god, I'm close. Oh god.
Wait, I though lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml were about machine learning and gradient stuff
that would be nice š
ml is okayish compared to hexbear lol
I thought at first it was some fun leftist lgbt place but quickly I ran into violent bloodthirsty comments that made my skin crawl. there are also many of my lovely fellow transfems over there ugh. it is really sad when people are lost into the void of extremism. But I donāt really blame them however I grieve them.
What we really need is a Schism, and for all the ml domains to defederate from the rest of the lemmyverse, and just become their own thing.
But due its size, it's also full of regular people. !linux@lemmy.ml is a good Linux community. Why block the entire instance when the Mao fanboys are just active in certain politics communities?
It takes minutes to create an account on an instance, it's not hard to move a community.
You can move a community with all subscribers? How? Does this work if the server was already defederated? Why defederate an entire server if only specific communities are problematic? Just block those.
Basically set up a community with the same name on another instance, and say "everyone go over there"
If it's done officially by the mods, then the new community becomes the official one.
And that statement is one nobody can read because the server has already been defederated. Doesn't sound like the best idea. Just block the Mao fanboy communities you don't like. Definitely a lower impact than blocking sane communities on that server like !Linux@lemmy.ml for everyone.
Actually, those annoying dorks are no great loss either.
Yay! Another meta echo chamber! /s
It actually would be a good thing. Pariah instances are how the fediverse will have to moderate itself, and these people have shown themselves to be incapable of playing well with others. I purposely avoided joining any of their subs because I saw how toxic their influence was on reddit.
If you look at peertube, there's one instance that hosts Steven Crowder and Alex Jones and like two other people who I assume are lesser demons of some kind. I would avoid any instance that doesn't have the good sense to defederate from that one. This is a similar thing. I doubt the tankies are going to be on the popular side of the schism if it happens, they would have an echo chamber and we would be rid of them.
The thing about an echo chamber like that is that thanks to the public nature of federation status, it would be obvious who the pariah instances are, so anyone still there would be made aware that they are the minority, not the voice of the people in any way. That's something that takes longer to notice in a forum like truth social. The numbers might be there for people to see, but it's a different platform so you can say there's a slow adoption rate or something, like you can say about Lemmy. With pariah instances there is a direct and obvious comparison, and people have left because your instance fucked up. That's going to drive all but the most hardcore folks away to other instances.
I welcome diversity of opinion. I may accidentally learn something. If I find a poster or instance I find particularly distasteful, I can block them. No need to censor unless it's human trafficking, CSA., gore, and especially the American exceptionalist vote blue/maga stuff.
I'm not particularly into right or left wing authoritarianism, but I enjoy learning something beyond typical American propaganda.
This isn't about diversity of opinion. I will happily talk to a tankie and explain why I think they are wrong, unless they're a toxic asshole in which case I will simply point out that fact. The problem is when tankies get in charge of forums they behave like toxic assholes, and then yeah, I think we should ditch that forum.
What's stopping you from blocking a particular instance? Why do you want to block it from me?
Nobody is blocking you from it. You can go find an instance that doesn't defederate. You can make an account with them. Literally nobody is stopping you.
If the admins of your instance agree it should be defederated and you disagree, then I guess that instance isn't a good fit for you.
This isn't like... a difficult concept, so I have to ask what it is about it that you're struggling with.
Ohh, the "no you!" H hit me in the feels!
If you can't even be bothered to write a coherent sentence then I have to say I'm not too concerned about what you have to say.
apparently they were manipulating votes, banned for it on my instance at least. i didnāt even know that was a thing, which makes all this defederation discourse so much more depressing !?
Oh wow... vote manipulation how? Like using alts or something else? How do you detect this? I am so curious now.
no clue of how. i just noticed a suspiciously symmetrical jump in the numbers and i reported it off a hunch. i wasnāt at all sure until my admin dmād me to confirm i was right (i assume admins can see the IDs and times of votes and triangulate off that but thatās just a guess)
Likewise. Enjoy your day.
I don't think you understand just how persistent these people can be, Internet Communist is their personality. The last time I looked, all their memes were thinly veiled jabs at capitalism, or the US, or about their politics in some way, they find a way to shoehorn it into every single conversation.
They're also in support of almost everything Russia does, including invading their neighbours, and opposed to everything the US does.
They're awful, they're abrasive, and they get everywhere.
Not really, it's their facade. They're not actually communists, it's just a mask they use to spread CCP and Kremlin propaganda. Plus their paid to do it, they're not authentic.
ooh i never knew about the crowder/jones peertube thing, thanks for this analysis!
also for those downvoting you, itās not really even an echo chamber. my instance defederates both, nevertheless i hear about shit that goes down on .ml literally daily, same as i am still well aware of the latest on crowder and jones.
defederation literally just means iām spared the curse of having to deal with the shit firsthand. i still have no lack of understanding of the positions involved.
Then block the instance for yourself. If I get tied of it, I can do that for myself. No reason you should be my Internet guardian.
ur fighting with shadows homie. my instance is not yours. no reason for you to feel threatened by me expressing my experience.
No, I didn't mean me, alone, personally.
what
Okay but have you considered muh freeze peach?
I think for many is shock and surprise is that anything even remotely "ml" is even allowed. Like something illegal is being allowed in plain sight.
A lot of people in the lemmy.world instance loves to spend time making threads about .ml or lemmygrad. Sounds like unnecessary drama at least for the lemmy.ml instance.
yeah and im sure they do all that just for fun not for any material reason at all its just for the sheer joy of it
material reasons???? Sounds communist.
ur so right communists have a monopoly on the word āmaterialā my bad
*our world
"Guys guys guys, lets federate so everyone can be connected everywhere!"
" Guys guys guys, why are you so occupied talking about these awful instances that we're intrinsically linked too via federation? gawd, so much unnecessary drama"