Plant Milk Is Better For Us and the Climate. So Why Do We Subsidize Dairy?
Like an estimated two-thirds of the world’s population, I don’t digest lactose well, which makes the occasional latte an especially pricey proposition. So it was a pleasant surprise when, shortly after moving to San Francisco, I ordered a drink at Blue Bottle Coffee and didn’t have to ask—or pay extra—for a milk alternative. Since 2022, the once Oakland-based, now Nestlé-owned cafe chain has defaulted to oat milk, both to cut carbon emissions and because lots of its affluent-tending customers were already choosing it as their go-to.
Plant-based milks, a multibillion-dollar global market, aren’t just good for the lactose intolerant: They’re also better for the climate. Dairy cows belch a lot of methane, a greenhouse gas 25 times more potent than carbon dioxide; they contribute at least 7 percent of US methane output, the equivalent emissions of 10 million cars. Cattle need a lot of room to graze, too: Plant-based milks use about a tenth as much land to produce the same quantity of milk. And it takes almost a thousand gallons of water to manufacture a gallon of dairy milk—four times the water cost of alt-milk from oats or soy.
But if climate concerns push us toward the alt-milk aisle, dairy still has price on its side. Even though plant-based milks are generally much less resource-intensive, they’re often more expensive. Walk into any Starbucks, and you’ll likely pay around 70 cents extra for nondairy options.
. Dairy’s affordability edge, explains María Mascaraque, an analyst at market research firm Euromonitor International, relies on the industry’s ability to produce “at larger volumes, which drives down the cost per carton.” American demand for milk alternatives, though expected to grow by 10 percent a year through 2030, can’t beat those economies of scale. (Globally, alt-milks aren’t new on the scene—coconut milk is even mentioned in the Sanskrit epic Mahābhārata, which is thousands of years old.)
What else contributes to cow milk’s dominance? Dairy farmers are “political favorites,” says Daniel Sumner, a University of California, Davis, agricultural economist. In addition to support like the “Dairy Checkoff,” a joint government-industry program to promote milk products (including the “Got Milk?” campaign), they’ve long raked in direct subsidies currently worth around $1 billion a year.
Big Milk fights hard to maintain those benefits, spending more than $7 million a year on lobbying. That might help explain why the US Department of Agriculture has talked around the climate virtues of meat and dairy alternatives, refusing to factor sustainability into its dietary guidelines—and why it has featured content, such as a 2013 article by then–Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack, trumpeting the dairy industry as “leading the way in sustainable innovation.”
But the USDA doesn’t directly support plant-based milk. It does subsidize some alt-milk ingredients—soybean producers, like dairy, net close to $1 billion a year on average, but that crop largely goes to feeding meat- and dairy-producing livestock and extracting oil. A 2021 report by industry analysts Mintec Limited and Frost Procurement Adventurer also notes that, while the inputs for dairy (such as cattle feed) for dairy are a little more expensive than typical plant-milk ingredients, plant alternatives face higher manufacturing costs. Alt-milk makers, Sumner says, may also have thinner profit margins: Their “strategy for growth is advertisement and promotion and publicity,” which isn’t cheap.
Starbucks, though, does benefit from economies of scale. In Europe, the company is slowly dropping premiums for alt-milks, a move it attributes to wanting to lower corporate emissions. “Market-level conditions allow us to move more quickly” than other companies, a spokesperson for the coffee giant told me, but didn’t say if or when the price drop would happen elsewhere.
In the United States, meanwhile, it’s a waiting game to see whether the government or corporations drive down alt-milk costs. Currently, Sumner says, plant-based milk producers operate under an assumption that “price isn’t the main thing” for their buyers—as long as enough privileged consumers will pay up, alt-milk can fill a premium niche. But it’s going to take a bigger market than that to make real progress in curbing emissions from food.
Need to keep the ag subsidies flowing so that rural areas keep voting conservative
It's not as if Democrats don't also throw plenty of bones to farmers.
Even if the farmers themselves are likely to be relatively conservative, they're such a politically sympathetic group that no one wants to be seen as "going after hard-working real American farmers!". Things like the Iowa caucuses playing a huge role in national politics don't help either (although the Dems have thankfully killed that).
It's more of a matter of if food gets more expensive you're more likely to be voted out of office
One thing nobody has commented on - how that article slips in a seemingly positive mention of Nestlé (they own the cafe that uses plant milks). That raised my eyebrows.
I'm beginning to notice a handful of company ties to "make perfect the enemy of good" takes like this.
It's enough to drive one to schizophrenia. Everything is a hidden message
C̵̡̢̡̢̙̰̻̘̠͎̟͖̯̉͐̉̊̓̎̽͂͆̈̄̔͊͊̃̔̈́́̂̑̿̐̈́͑͛̆̾̈́́͘̚̕͝͝ơ̴̢̧̨̢̟̳̜͙̝͚̟̞͖̞̲͙͍̠͎̞̫͙̮̦̥̯̹̟̦̘̮̖͛͋̏̂̈́̽̓͊͂̃̀̒́͒̏͛̓̐̅́̽͛̇͆̀̽̋͋̋̈́̍́̓͑̚̕͝ͅn̸̡̧̨̛̛̛͍̺̤͎̮͕̟͇̞̙̞̯̤̭̠̥̰̹͍̮͍͙̫̮͉̫̻͖̜̭̦̱͚͎͖͖͓̹̽͛̊̂̓̿̄̏̊̀̀͌̓̽̏͂̒̂̌̄̄̀̊̆̏͑̈́̊̊͌͒͗̀̎̈́̚̕͝͝͠s̴̡͔̗͖̝͖̫̩̲̗̪̤̯̳̼̲̼̈́́̅̇̿̀̎͗́͗͒̀̿̌̎͐͛̆͗͆̿̓̈͗͌̌͒͒́̚̕̚̚͝ṵ̸̢̥̭͎͍̲̟͍̹͙̱̦̤̮̜̖͕̪̱̼̞̜̖̹̥̜͍̝̑̄̆̍̉͒̍̌̅̏̌̊̇͑̄̂̇͌́̿̈́̾͂̏̒͛̐̐̉̏̕̕̚̚͜͜͝͠͝͝ͅͅͅm̵̡̡̨̻̱̹̙̭͚͔̣̘͎̬̖̝̲͈̦̱͓̤̤̲̲̫̫̩͔̮̻̂͋̄̀͐̀̔̿̊̾̋͐̃͆̕̕͜ͅe̸̢̡͇̤͔͈̮̥͓̙͓̻͙̹̦͔̼͔͛̉́̇ͅͅ
Always follow the money. Nobody does journalism for free.
The dairy lobby in the US is huge money. If you ever want to know why we're making a seemingly stupid decision follow the money, look at the entrenched interests and read some history. We subsidize dairy farmers because we used to subsidize dairy farmers and they spent a bunch of their earnings lobbying for more subsidies.
Granted, tobacco is far worse than dairy in its health outcomes, but imagine if big tobacco had somehow managed to get schools and government agencies to push their product onto children as a "health" product. Dairy is much like that.
there is a bit of a difference between milk and tobacco
Really? I've been substituting tobacco for milk in my morning cereal every day, it's been great to get away from dairy, finally.
I just go down to my local saloon and get the free tobacco milk they store in that big metal jug
While that was true... this all happened when there wasn't many other options frankly. The landscape is changing.
Except almonds. Almonds are terrible water wasters, and mostly grown in California where they can least afford the water.
Still more efficient on resource utilization than animal agriculture. If you hate almond milk for that reason, you should want the dairy industry completely abolished.
Shit, you should want all animal agriculture banned.
Based and correct.
Eh, there are plenty of use cases where certain land types aren't really arable. Ruminants fill that niche easily.
The catch is that like 80% of the land used for livestock currently could also use crops instead.
https://freefromharm.org/agriculture-environment/saving-the-world-with-livestock-the-allan-savory-approach-examined/
Fwiw US dairy plans to be carbon neutral by 2050.
https://www.npr.org/2022/04/27/1095100351/the-dairy-industry-aims-to-be-carbon-neutral-by-2050-heres-what-it-means-for-far
But we don't need to use all that land. Plant-based diets use 70% less land, including 22% less crop land.
The bigger catch is that 70% of all crops we grow go to our livestock.
We wouldn't need to use those lands if we just ate less meat.
So you're saying almond milk drinkers could end up going to hell someday?
/s -The Good Place reference
Almond is the worst of the nut milks, but it's STILL way better for the environment than dairy.
What you get in stores is not even really almond milk. Real almond milk would be way too expensive to be competitive.
Exactly... Ughh I still fail to understand why almond milk is popular among vegans. It's very expensive and doesn't even taste that nice...
True. Soy and oat milk can be very good, depending on the brand.
oat milk is the jammy out of all the alt milks imo
Reccomendation on brands?
My favorite oat milk is Oatly Barista, the best soy milk I've tried is from Joya, but I haven't seen it outside of Austria yet. Alpro is quite good and more widely available (at least in Europe). In North America, Silk seems to be great from what I've heard. Store brand soy milks tend to taste pretty bad from my experience here in Germany, but some of them might have improved since I tried them years ago.
Oatly and Califia both have great oat milks. They also have barista milks that substitute for half and half in coffee!
Thank you for the suggestions!
Welcome! Feel free to message with any questions or if you'd like more suggestions!
Still better than dairy.
My personal theory is that we subsidize dairy not for the milk, but for the cheese. As far as I'm aware you can't make cheese out of plant milks, and we've gotten pretty reliant on cheese as a source of protein and other nutrients in our American diets - especially among children and lower income diets.
Look up: cheese caves. 👍
In short: There is so much excess cheese out there that the US government is literally storing billions of pounds of it in underground caves.
https://www.farmlinkproject.org/stories-and-features/cheese-caves-and-food-surpluses-why-the-u-s-government-currently-stores-1-4-billion-lbs-of-cheese
Let's raid. They can't stop us all!!!
What the fuck
You can make plant-based cheeses. And some of them are pretty good. But they lack all of the same properties. Like, you can get a cheese that that when hot will stretch a little bit like the cheese on a pizza, but as it cools off it loses all of that elasticity and is not great for lukewarm pizza. You can get cheese that is pretty decent for lukewarm and hot pizza, but it doesn't have that stretch. It more just rips apart. And you definitely don't have the span of "flavors" of cheese or whatever you'd call it. Some of the big ones, sure, but again, they don't have all the same physical properties.
I don't mind the loss of those properties, but many people do.
Cheese isn't a great source for protein compared to beans in regards to price though.
Honestly, I think we subsidize the dairy industry simply because they've been lobbying so long. Meat is subsidized too. It's the one market that the conservatives are fine with ignoring the mantra of "free market" and support regulating the hell out of it in whatever way supports the "farmers" (big farm is nothing like the labeling suggests and is all headed by big guys in suits who likely never have been on a farm in their life).
Beans can taste amazing when prepared by a competent chef, but often taste like shit when prepared wrong.
Cheese, on the other hand, is much more forgiving of poor preparation. Eat it straight out of the package, sliced and on bread or crackers, melt it into sauces, or grill it, or any number of other uses.
Simply put, cheese is fast and easy, and can elevate almost any other food.
Also, try to get kids to eat beans. It can happen. But not easily, and often you have to do it in the form of chili, with loads of cheese.
You're just describing American children raised in a poor diet. Beans are a staple food among not of the world population, including their children. They're super easy to prepare as well. Talking about the extremely fatty and unhealthy cheese like that is probably one of the many reasons the US is obese and unhealthy.
Cheese is not a healthy part of a diet in any quantity where it provides a significant protein of the person's protein needs.
Both meat and dairy are subsidized because they consume huge amounts of corn, and the corn industry is an even bigger lobby.
Soy cheese is called tofu.
Cheese was one of our main obstacles toward cutting out dairy. I came across a vegan cheese sauce recipe that utilizes blended steamed potatoes & carrots for the texture and nutritional yeast and other spices for the flavor. Been using it for a few years now and haven't looked back yet.
It's hard to find good nutritional yeast though. Since they are quite expensive, it is not easy to try around until you find one, that does not taste like garbage.
Yes it's an expensive purchase, but I buy it once every 6 months or so. It goes a long way and I use little (⅓ cup) at a time.
Some of my family think we're living large because we can "afford" cashew nuts, which we use for many purposes, but don't think twice about spending 3 times more on meat every single week.
Government cheese has been a thing since at least the great depression.
Probably because everyone tried only the shittiest alt-malks, assume they are all bad, and somehow don't get heartburn and diarrhea and gunky mouth and throat feel from cow milk. I save all my lactose intolerance suffering for cheese and ice cream.
Seriously though it's the same as people that say only bad things about tofu but have only eaten white American 'recipes' that genuinely suck. Meanwhile Asians happily inhaling literal tons of it prepared in actually good meals. Try making bread from scratch without salt (or salty ingredients) and that's what tofu foods for the white market remind me of.
Tofu is fine, but tempeh is almost as widely available in supermarkets, has a higher protein density, is fermented, and works in soooo many things. It's also way easier to get the hang of marinating and cooking.
I mention this only because I love it so much, and I'd love for people that shit on vegan food to give that a go (lightly pan fried, and then tossed in a gooey before sriracha-soy-peanut-butter-lime-brown-sugar sauce) and get back to me. I could eat it every night and never get tired of it.
This is something I've actually been meaning to try and forgot about
Let me help!
Combine for sauce (put in a bowl and toss the tempeh in it after - cooked peanut butter isn't great, imo):
Get back to me. This is one of my absolute favorites!
Thanks I'll have to find time for shopping now. I only wish I could count on people to not angle grind off my bike lock while I'm in the store.
I was about to say, when making bread salt is like the only flavouring so they recommend not being too stingy. I do love tofu though. The texture is neutral and can be "improved" depending on the goal. The taste is pretty bland and it will taste like whatever you want it to be.
My gripe with tofu is that it always sticks to the pan.
I've tried pressing the liquid out, freezing, and flouring/cornstarching it and that works to an extent but it's more effort than I'd like for something that is basically sauce flavoured.
Tofu is a pain. Try heating the pan significantly before adding oil, and then toss the food in on top of the oil shortly after.
Alternatively, scallions in oil help to make a non stick coating. Or a lecithin-containing spray oil. The lecithin helps prevent sticking way more than the oil itself does.
Or tell your pan to shut up, and either deep fry or air fry it.
Hahaha, white people can't cook, amirite?
I had this fantastic plant-based milk product on my store shelves called "Not Milk". I really enjoyed it. Had this mild coconut flavor which might turn off some (not me) but anyway, it's gone now because it was too expensive for the market I'm in.
Meanwhile gallons of milk flow for the same purpose, only subsidized for under half the cost per ounce.
As we do, we stifle innovation ourselves based on our past.
check out your local Aldi. They've got a range of almond, soy, coconut and oat milk at very reasonable prices. I was loving coconut milk until my friend told me how high in saturated fat it is (like really high.) Since then I do about half coconut and half light almond for my oatmeal and I can't say enough how good it tastes. I'm eating oatmeal as a dessert now sometimes because I like it so much.
Edit: had originally said cholesterol but totally had meant saturated fat. Thanks to @DarthFrodo for bringing the error to my attention.
Plants don't produce cholesterol, only animals. Coconut oil is high in saturated fat that seems to be bad for blood cholesterol levels, but coconut milk (for drinking, in cartons) has hardly any fat in it. The one I looked up has half of the saturated fat compared to 3,5% fat cows milk.
Thanks for the correction, I totally meant saturated fat but my brain shit the bed. I'll correct my post and note the edit. Thanks again!
Extra thick oatmilk is the way to go.
Check to see if your store has "Nextmilk" made by Silk. It is cheaper than "Not Milk" and tastes better!
Because lots of people in your country drink it, like it, and even more eat things made from it. Like cheese.
"Two thirds of people can't tolerate lactose" is utterly fucking meaningless in this context. Most of those are in Asia. Last I checked, it was countries giving out subsidies, not some nebulous world council.
And nearly all farming gets subsidised, because that reduces reliance on external countries. You've seen what capitalism did to housing. You don't want that to happen to food.
Americans are at 36% lactose intolerant. Which is surprisingly, to me anyways, high.
And should corn and cattle get the bulk of the subsidies? If it's about food alone, maybe not.
My takeaway from this is that Nestle probably doesn't own any dairy companies, but probably does own a plant that makes oat milk. They keep all the profit in their own ecosystem by buying their supplies from themself and then get to tell us how green and thoughtful they are.
Are you suggesting cow's milk is more sustainable/ecological than any plant milk?
No, they're suggesting that Nestle is probably acting in bad faith by attempting to close a monopolistic gap rather than genuinely doing something for the betterment of the world
They probably do, but oat milk is probably not great for making milk chocolate or several other of their food products. Decent coffee also hides less appetizing milks somewhat.
Are there actual studies showing that plant-based alternatives are better for health (for individuals that digest lactose just fine like me) ?
I switched to alt-milks for ecological reason but media keep talking about the negative health effects of «ultra-transformed food», which alt-milk very much sounds like...
Well oatmilk is literally grinded oats with water. How is that ultra-transformed?
With added sugar, flavour and occasionally vitamins and micronutrients.
Not saying it's necessarily bad though
That's what most plant milks are. Oat milk requires further additions, because it's comparatively unappetizing as-is, compared to coconut, almond or soy milk.
Some oat milks have oil added to make it thicker, or to make it froth, but there are plenty here in the UK that are just oats and water.
What is an ultra-transformed food and what makes it bad for you? Generally the things added to foods (sugar, salt, preservatives) are what make them less healthy than fresh counterparts. At least here, the soy milk has added salt putting it at the same salt content as milk, and no added sugar, putting it at 8x less sugar than milk. What it does have is added calcium, vitamin B2, vitamin B12, vitamin D, and a higher protein content than milk. Simply being processed doesn't make something unhealthy, the things that are changed in processing it can make something unhealthy. That doesn't apply here.
Agreed, the term and confusion is likely due to over-simplification from media and researchers.
I thought there were added sugar in those alt-milks, as most I tried tasted so sweet...
If they taste sweet, at all, they are definitely sweetened with added sugar. One of the biggest cons of plant-based milks is that they are either completely devoid of sweetness, or have lots of sugar and are higher carb than dairy milk.
You can't find unsweetened soymilk around me because nobody will buy it. Ditto to a lesser extent in other unsweetened milks. Usually, the unsweetened ones are also the unfortified ones around me, too... which means nutritionally inferior.
One of the advantages to cow milk is that it is probably the lowest carb content for that "sweet enough" milk balance. Unsweetened plant milks are just lacking that, and the plant milks sweetened to compete are too high-carb. But yeah, I wouldn't call any plant milk ultra-transformed. The term "processed food" is way too large an umbrella for reasoned conversation.
Per the Mayo Clinic, it's tough to beat dairy milk for balanced nutrition. These heavily fortified alt-milks aren't terrible, but the body doesn't digest those nutrients as well. Doesn't mean it'll kill ya. I know people who eat a giant pastry for breakfast every morning, but it's points against. If the only thing you care about is nutrients and not being dairy, the answer is definitely unsweetened Soy Milk if it's available where you are.
I'm lactose intolerant, and for years I thought lactaid wouldn't for for me. The sweetened soymilk I drank definitely contributed to some weight gain back then, but it was hardly the main or only cause.
I can't speak to health, but here's some thoughts on the ecological reason.
All the studies (that I have found at least) look at global carbon emissions and land use in production of milk. This is an important distinction.
The US, for example, is the #2 milk producer in the world (arguably #1 if we're only talking about cow milk). It's also the #1 beef producer in the world. The US's livestock methane footprint is barely a blip on the Global Warming Radar (6% of total methane from all sources). There are even ways to reduce the carbon footprint of cow milk further, but it's important to note we are very much in the range where we could easily take action to fund offsets and make the dairy industry 100% carbon neutral in the US. You may not be from the US, and that's not the point. The point is that a lot of European countries that consume milk are in the same boat, and countries that are not as efficient as that could be with some regulatory changes and technological improvements.
Flip-side. As others have said, alt-milks are a lot less "ultra-transformed" than you might think. It's like calling chicken broth "ultra-transformed". You could make your own oatmilk or almond milk. It's not hard or "weird". They're just oats and water, or nuts and water.
Actually, found this quote about the health of milk. "if we're looking at like the nutrient density versus cost, cow’s milk is always going to win". TO BE CLEAR, the expert in this article is saying "plant-based milk is just fine", and she agrees that some plant-based milks are comparable to cow milk if less balanced. She has a long explanation of "you really need to know what you plan to get out of milk", pointing out that most plant milks are too low in protein, but that it doesn't matter if you're just using it to remove acidity from your coffee... but that for a vegan they're just fine.
I prefer plant-based milk over dairy, it tastes better and it lasts longer. I tried plant based milk years ago and never went back. I've tried cashew, macadamia, rice, soy, almond, coconut, oat, and sunflower. Some of my favorites are vanilla almond, dark chocolate almond and cashew, vanilla macadamia, and vanilla coconut. My family still buys dairy milk, but we always bought plant-based butter. I buy cream cheese to use as bread spread.
It seems like you like vanilla and chocolate and not plant “milk.”
Can you make cheese out of almond milk? If I'm doing my math right, 75% of milk is made into cheese.
https://www.census.gov/newsroom/stories/milk-day.html#:~:text=Milk%20production%20in%20the%2024,1.4%20percent%20from%20November%202021.
https://hartdesign.com/industry-news/annual-cheese-production-up/#:~:text=U.S.%20cheese%20production%20in%202021,(all%20figures%20are%20rounded).
Yes, there are almond and oat milk cheese alternatives. Ben and Jerry's has been selling almond milk ice cream for a long time.
Also please consider reading about how supply for cheese is currently outpacing demand.
https://www.npr.org/2019/01/09/683339929/nobody-is-moving-our-cheese-american-surplus-reaches-record-high
Because most plant juice tastes like shit and has the wrong mouth-feel for most things we use cow milk for. Its not rocket surgery.
I'm not vegan or even vegetarian, so I feel pretty impartial on this. My partner uses oat milk for their coffee, and over the years I just got used to using it straight, or in cereals, etc. Now I greatly prefer it. It's just "milk" for me now.
Never thought it would happen, but getting cow milk when I'm out feels off - that mouth-feel you mention; just doesn't sit right anymore. It really is an acquired taste.
Right there with you. I've been living the plant milk life for years at this point and cow milk just tastes so... water-y for lack of a better explanation.
Have you considered heavy cream? /s
My wife says she can "taste the cow" in the milk, in the same way she could "taste the goat" in goat milk before moving to plant based milks.
I know exactly what she means though, it's a weird aftertaste that tastes 'wild' in the same way you can differentiate wild game from beef or pork.
However, it seems only people who have been off cow milk for a while can identify this element.
Yeah! That's the perfect way to put it, thank you. It's like a foreign extra flavour - a certain cowiness that I didn't notice growing up. Cow milk used to taste like "default milk," where everything else was a variation on that normal base. But now it's one of the "other" milks, because I taste it so infrequently.
Spot on. People are out here trying to play like almond, oat, soy and every other milk substitute is exactly the same as dairy based milk, it's not and will not ever be, they're different products
Also pretending that people swapping from dairy to alternate milks will somehow impact the looming climate crisis is also pretty disingenuous
If we all went vegan we'd reduce food based emissions by 70%, which is 15% of the entire planets GHG emissions. Not to mention recovering 75% of farm land.
It really is a no brainer if you want to make a difference. And if I, "a rural New Zealander who grew up on a dairy farm who said he'd never eat a vegetarian meal in his life" can convert to veganism based on the logic of it, surely anyone could.
there is no reason to think farmland would be "recovered" or converted to any less- environmentally destructive use.
I doubt it.
If you see how much crops we need to grow and fresh water we need to feed a cow, you'd see how inefficient meat is.
70% of all the crops we grow is to feed our livestock.
Meaning for 1/3 on our plate, we use more than double the resources than the other 2/3 combined.
I'm going to use your sound logical deductions and reasoning skills to reply to your comment in kind, ready?
Yeah? Well I doubt THAT.
https://phys.org/news/2021-01-yeast-cow.html
If this hits market, I'll be all for it.
I haven’t had a glass of milk in years. It kinda grosses me out, but I love some cheese. But I’m doing my small part in not buying gallons of milk.
I actually did a informal survey at work when I was buying milk. Out of 40 people, only two have bought milk (like whole or skim) in the past year. Some did milk alternatives. Some bought half and half. But very little did pure milk.
Not sure who the milk drinkers are.
I go through just under a gallon a day between myself and four roommates
That's how our household was when the kids were little, 1 to 1.5 gallons a day. Now that they've moved out it's more like a gallon a month.
Milk is delicious though! I'm 27 and still plow through it, haha
It is! I enjoy it, but I've mostly cut it out, along with a bunch of other foods, just to keep my calorie intake down. I try to only use it where I see it as a necessary component, like when making lattes or on breakfast cereal. Where in the past I might grab a giant glass of milk I now substitute water. Except with brownies, obviously.
Kids.
Me. I am a bit into baking, have young children, and add milk to my coffee.
I guess about a large container a week.
Most recipes can easily use plant-based milks instead of dairy milk. And barista versions of plant-based milks taste awesome in beverages like coffee. Just putting it out there.
Edit: Just made amazing vegan waffles that needed 250ml of milk. Oat milk is super affordable and tastes pretty much the same to me and has the same properties in the "baking" process as regular milk would.
I will try again. I subbed out vegetable shortening for butter and it was little impact. The less I speak of trying soymilk in bread the better.
It didn't work well for me with rice milk, I'll try oat next time !
I cook with it a lot.
I drink both plant-based dairy substitutes and milk (well, buttermilk because I'm lactose intolerant).
Currently I buy it cause I have young kids, but my wife and I drink oat/almond. Kids are picky about plant milk
I don't see why dairy should be subsidized but some plant milks aren't exactly environmentally friendly either. The best can be said is they're better than dairy, assuming the same land could be used for both. But they can be devastating in their own right. E.g. to grow 1 almond (i.e. one kernel) takes over 3 gallons of water. Other crops used to make milk like oats have lower water consumption.
The almond example is frequently brought up, but this is still half of what dairy milk requires, without taking into account the difference in land use too
the sources of the water are vastly different though. the totals for dairy milk include the rainwater that grows the grass but otherwise is inaccessible to humans. the almonds, by contrast, are irrigated. not to mention the potable water that goes directly into the final product.
You think most dairy cows are fed on naturally watered grass?
They can be, in NZ there are is a huge amount of land that has been converted to dairy through massive irrigation schemes which has caused massive problems for the rivers that flow naturally through these places... I imagine there are other places in the world used for dairy that wouldn't be suitable if not for irrigation?
https://ourworldindata.org/environmental-impact-milks and https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/environmental-footprint-milks
Here's why dairy should be subsidized. Because all farms should be subsidized. Most of our food production needs to be subsidized to prevent bad economic shifts creating financial hardships that sink farms and lead to a food shortfall.
I mean, here's a microcosm for you. Some seafood verticals had price swings recently, and when the swings hit bottom, it was actually cheaper to keep the boat in port than go out for a trip. If the swings remained or kept going down, it would have tanked some of the smaller fishing companies. So when that swing would end, the shortage of production would have the opposite effect - dramatically higher fish prices. Yes, that'll get people back into the industry... bigger businesses that will carefully milk the increased prices instead of simply increasing food availability.
Now, the way dairy and and beef farms are subsidized is a problem right now. Even most farmers are against it. Most dairy farms don't get a penny (and in fact, PAY IN. I'm not kidding), while the larger factory farms get their feed fully paid for and large scale production subsidized.
That does mean you're probably not actually seeing a penny of price savings from the subsidies. People tend to forget that when blaming subsidies in the price of milk vs plant-milk.
I see soy/oat/rice milk as their own thing, instead of a direct cow milk substitute/replacement.
There are many, many dairy product that are important as food or ingredients to other foods such as butter, yogurt, ice cream, cream, infant formula, and various cheeses that cannot be replaced directly by plant based alternatives.
And also, if you don't like milk, try getting one of those unhomoginized milk in glass bottles that's usually directly bottled by local farms. You have to shake a lot to get the cream on top dissolved again, but there is nothing that's quite like an ice cold cup of that.
As someone who lives entirely on plants, those ingredients are all easily replaced. Everything cow tit juice can do, plants can do better.
Bring that complain to the producers of "oat milk" and similar products. Producing a gallon of oat milk has ingredience costs of about 20ct. You know what you are paying for it in the supermarket. Go figure who gets rich on people who are looking for "alternatives".
They meant "pricey" as in going to the bathroom a lot more than usual
To them, in bulk. Making your own oat milk is about an 80% savings over retail cost (about $0.50-$1/gallon), about the same as the money saved making your own yogurt.
This isn't about rich people getting richer specifically on plant-based milks. There's just several levels of markups. Oat Milk company passes on a markup on the oats they purchase, then they pass another markup to the wholesaler. Then the wholesaler passes a markup to the retailer. Than the retailer passes a markup that averages around 30% but generally goes from 15% to 75%, usually larger markups for products that sell slower to justify their investment in them.
This is arguably why capitalism is failing us, but nothing is unique about it with Oat Milk. Right now, milk cost of production is high (enough that farmers are losing money), but that's temporary and wholesalers have the leverage to pay prices that are below cost (which is why farmers are losing money). Then, there's one fewer step in markups.
So let's say your 20c figure is right (it's not. Oat prices are fairly high right now). They're paying more like 30-40c for the ingredients, then they sell it to wholesalers for over $1/gal (which is arguably justified, which is already in range of the $1.50/gal farm milk costs hit. Then, yes, wholesalers and retailers each mark oat milk up a bit higher because it moves slower.
A lot of arguments see to be that it tastes better. I don’t want to argue subjective tastes. However, in terms of economics, the better taste would mean that there is no need to subsidize it. The market would bear the additional cost if the taste and utility of milk is there. The question posed is still relevant: why do we subsidize it? Everyone arguing how much better it is than the alternatives are just proving the point that we shouldn’t be subsidizing it.
it's just a century long marketing scam that is now so big it would cause an economic recession to dismantle it over night. It will take a few decades for the subsidies to be lowered, and probably will never go to zero.
This is too narrow. Why do we subsidize food at all? America is supposed to be free market capitalists, right? Subsidies don't fit that definition?
(in reality, farmers need some sort of support system, I believe, as do we all, but subsidies don't fit the free market capitalism narrative.)
We'll you're pointing out how ridiculous it is to believe in a free market. Because one has never existed. What ought we subsidize though? Obviously foods that are better for our environment, climate, health, economy and for animal welfare.
Dairy, meat and egg coalitions have known for years that subsidies and marketing are things they need to pursue for greater success, they've used tactics similar to tobacco companies with their marketing and they've used lobbying tactics similar to oil and gas giants as well. It's clear we need to stop subsidizing them.
Yep! That was my point.
Yeah, if we must subsidize something, then sure, those sound good.
Subsidies only benefit the big "farms" (industrial operations) and encourage producing the subsidized crop regardless of its value. The incentives are so perverse that farms end up dumping their milk because there is no market for the amount produced.
Personally am in favor of eliminating all food subsidies. Making food valuable could eliminate so many of our other societal problems - poor health, destruction of natural resources, overpopulation.
There are very obvious negative side effects to making food more expensive.
I can come up with my own, but what are some of the side effects you're thinking of? Right now food is so cheap that most people's only metric is price, with no consideration for quality, nutrition, environmental impact, etc. Most of what we are eating isn't really food, just an engineered combination of four or five heavily subsidized crops.
Something something corporate lobbyist reaping benefits at the cost of public taxed $
Milk, cream, cheese (most of what milk ends up as), and butter, are all delicious, despite the corrupting economic and political arrangements. Is the quantity consumed appropriate? The US diet is demanding.
The article sort of glosses over the input required to grow plant-based milk products effectively at scale, and the fact they don't constantly produce like cows, the ways the crops can be destroyed and what's required to protect them. A byproduct of dairy farming is manure, often used to fertilize vegetable crops, but the nitrogen fixation used in synthetic fertilizers requires a lot of energy input as well.
They are being effectively grown at scale and are still insanely less resource intensive.
Because cows eat corn and cornfields have more power than people in America
So what you're saying is we need to make cornmilk.
We do, it's called whiskey.
I'm allergic to milk, so fuck big dairy.
I’m not allergic to milk, but fuck big dairy too.
I'm allergic to oats, but still fuck big dairy. Live little dairy!
I'm curious what makes milk bad for you. Could someone explain this? I understand why it is bad for the climate, but not why it's bad for human health provided you can digest lactose properly.
It's a similar issue to why gluten became a fad diet, once the public zeitgeist got the idea that some people can't digest gluten properly people started thinking that maybe no one should eat gluten and the hucksters followed suit.
Do not believe any scammer who tries to tell you that milk is somehow not healthy or that the dairy industry is some kind of scam trying to poison America.
It's not bad for human health at all. Bullshit myths pushed on social media.
Well it is high in fat and calories, it's totally fine in moderation.
There's a lot of cholesterol in cows milk for a start.
Dietary cholesterol isn't unhealthy
That's what big dairy wants you to think
Dietary cholesterol is bad.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dietary-guidelines-eat-as-little-dietary-cholesterol-as-possible/
In moderation
It's not. The Mayo Clinic clearly states that milk is healthier than plant milks. Fortified soymilk is their second-best.
While there are saturated fats in cow milk, it's a low enough percent of calories that you can drink any amount of milk and still never cross the "healthy to unhealthy" line.
Also, be wary of people quoting nutritionstudies.org as it's a vegan propaganda mill with a founder that likes to make claims that are either unsubstantiated or rejected by medical experts and nutritionists in general. Using one of the cited references from that site "nobody needs to drink milk", he claims that casein causes tumor growth. There is a weak correlation between casein intake and tumor growth that puts it in the same category of "may possibly cause cancer" as hundreds of things you do every day (to add, there's similar evidence that dairy "may possibly" prevent some forms of cancer). Milk is not known to cause or worsen cancer, nor even **likely to ** cause/worsen cancer, from a scientific point of view. More frustrating, milk's nutritional balance and high protein makes it something doctors generally encourage cancer patients to drink.
That number, like all world population numbers is heavily skewed by just how many people are in China. The mutation that causes adults to continue to produce the enzyme to digest lactose is less common among those of Asian descent.
...and there are medieval European recipes that call for almond milk, and tofu is made from soy milk and there are written sources referencing it roughly a thousand years old. You're right, none of these are really new on the scene, aside from maybe oat milk.
I feel like your first paragraph completely ignored this aspect. You squeeze milk out of a cow. Nut and bean milks require grinding the stuff up with a lot of water, mixing it thoroughly, then squeezing the wet pulp through a fine filter (for small batches something like a cheesecloth) to separate the milk from the pulp.
Commercial oat milk requires further processing, because just pulping, mixing with water and straining oats does not produce anything appetizing at all.
That's not a bad assumption on their part - people who are deeply concerned with the emissions involved in producing their food tend to be richer, in no small part because poor folks are going to put price first, because they have to think about how food fits into their budget more.
Also cheese - you can't make cheese from plant milks. Well, you can try, but that's basically how you make tofu, and performing a similar process on other plant milks creates something closer to tofu than cheese.
Because it's a relatively new competitor on the market that doesn't have the same agricultural base as dairy products which warrants subsidies aimed at keeping farmers from losing their shirts during lean seasons?
Oat milk > Almond milk. Almond milk has a weird and bitter taste to it, oat milk doesn't.
I also like the coconut water with rice drinks, but they hardly classify as milk even tho some brands may claim it's a milk alternative.
I've tried a few different oat milks and they just seem so watery tasting, with an artificial thickness to them. None of the milk alternatives I've tried come close actually... Maybe in coffee, but in a bowl of cereal, or a glass all by itself?
Hopefully we can bio-engineer milk production like meat and get the benefits without the drawbacks (could make it lactose free too I bet).
We all just say "capitalism" and end the thread right?
We don't need non human milk in the first place so I don't need a milk alternative either lol
Also, for the record I'm mostly off human milk too now that I'm an adult
ಠ_ಠ
Don't worry, babysteps (no pun intended) for the win, you can do it!
Mostly? You still breastfeeding as an adult?
Not all the time. I'm not a weirdo
Who doesn't like a little breastmilk ice cream from time to time?
I love the one from you mom
side question, what is the impact of goat milk?
I don't know but it's not the best option out there lol
Because milking nuts is hard. Their teats are so small!