'I will never vote Biden': Some Muslim Americans in a key swing state feel betrayed by the president
stopthatgirl7@kbin.social to 
nbcnews.com
Muslim and Arab Americans say their support was critical to Biden’s winning Michigan in 2020. Some warn they won’t back him again over his blanket support for Israel.
Wonder what they think Trump would have done differently.
Seriously. Trump is advocating turning Gaza into a parking lot.
And it's not like Democrats have exactly been shy of their general support of Israel, if you've paid any attention at all. They just also happen to acknowledge that Palestinians are people, unlike most Republicans.
It's possible to be angry at both Republicans and Democrats.
But you still must vote for the one likely to do you the least harm if you don't want to get fucked. White Biden sucks he's objectively better than Trump for Muslim Americans. Trump was talking about deporting and blocking them from entering.
Not everyone thinks from a position of harm reduction. If you see a president stand up and speak out in favor of (in your eyes) genocide then you may not react to that ”rationally".
If you're protest voting on principle but not also joining more... radical... organizations that are actually working towards your desires, you're just being foolish.
Lots of voters ate foolish. And there's something to be said for the fact that voting for the lesser evil keeps evil in power. Not saying that's me but I do understand the sentiment.
Which is why you either do something about it or suck it up and vote for the lesser.
Just don't do nothing and then pretend you're taking a stand.
I'm not convinced having a lost Roomba who utters racist bullshit and hands countries over to terrorist organizations is a good pick. If it's Biden and Trump again, I am either not going to vote or go third party. I cannot in good conscience vote for either of them.
In a First Past the Post voting system, refusing to vote, or voting 3rd party, is numerically the same as an extra vote for the candidate you hate the most. It's just one more vote closer to victory that your opposition gets.
Neither party is great, there's plenty to dislike about both, but it's patently obvious that one is far more harmful than the other.
Well it's not really numerically the same as voting for the candidate you hate the most, it's numerically the same as not voting. And to be honest, it really only matters if you're in a potential swing state. And I'm saying this as someone who still votes despite having lived in a deep red state where my presidential vote always doesn't matter (but I go anyway because down ballot votes do matter and I might as well vote the whole ballot).
Muslim population is significant in certain swing states.
I agree, any loss of votes in a swing state could theoretically be significant.
Same, but a blue state. It really doesn't matter who I vote for, or if I vote at all, when it comes to the president. I can't remember the last time I enjoyed voting for president, and I've voted for decades. I often think about just bowing out of the whole voting scam, but then there's always local shit that gets me to do the deed.
In the sort of two-party system they have in the US, it really is one or the another
And yet they both do the shit they accuse the other side of.
The Republicans attempted a coup.
So since Trump exists, we should be happy with mediocrity? Nothing will ever get fixed in this country with this binary political system.
Well, geopolitics often go beyond party politics, or at least they should
Per the article. They do the protest vote.
And if that gets them Trump 2024, what do the smoothbrains think will improve for either Palestinians or Muslims in America?
Considering the guy is literally supporting deporting pro-Palestinian students, I think they've given it the typical amount of thought a modern theist gives anything.
That's effectively a vote for whoever who hate most in the ticket. Not voting has consequences
Grab em by the pussy?
Somehow he would have found a way to discriminate against all religions involved. He would have tried to make money from Israel over this situation and he would have stationed US troops in Gaza.
Are you serious? You Americans have a brain worm
The next election will likely be a choice between Biden and Trump. So you can either vote for Biden or decide that you don't mind Trump wins.
And as a reminder Trump recognized Jerusalem as the Israeli capital, recognized the Golan heights as being part of Israel, had an Iranian general assassinated, and announced a peace plan which suggested the Israelis should be allowed to annex another 30% of the West Bank. In recent weeks, he's been banging on about there being no better US ally than Israel and how if he's elected Israel will be safer than ever.
You can be critical of Biden, but the republicans are religiously pro-Israel. They don't give a shit about Palestinians. Biden is the better option.
It's like all the idiots who make excuses for Hamas, because they're unaware that for a long time Hamas was supported by Israel, and that by supporting terrorists they're effectively undermining any chance of a Palestinian state.
Us Americans recall the Muslim ban, and the increase in hate crimes after 45 took office. There are no good answers and the protest vote only gets you the worst candidate elected. Do you prefer passive or active genocide?
Some americans make decisions on single issues instead of considering the full voting record and position of a candidate. Some even approve or disapprove for sillier reasons.
So instead of diminished aid for Palestine, you’d rather… checks notes… travel bans for all middle eastern people trying to go to the US, except for people from a handful of governments who are actively giving Trump money?
Don't forget Trump's son-in-law's middle east foreign policy plan for Israel that Palestinian supporting groups rejected and weren't consulted with further. Israel was to be allowed to annex existing settled positions, and no further expansion from either side. Israeli settlers haven't adhered to this "peace plan" anyway.
Any Americans staying home at elections, this type of foreign policy is what they tacitly support.
Tbh, Israeli West Bank “settlers” really shouldn’t be considered non-combatants.
Sure don't vote Biden. Just vote for the fascist Republicans that previously banned people from muslim countries. That will work, right gaiz? Plus any Republican president won't ever send Gaza aid. Biden is sending aid.
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206897197/biden-makes-deal-on-aid-delivery-to-gaza
Yeah. Does anybody else think that this "One strike and you're dead to me, regardless of how complex the issue is" thing is getting a little out of hand? The only winning move here is not to play, but then he would be attacked from both sides for appearing apathetic.
It's hilarious because it's happening to both sides, like the extreme Republicans saying they won't vote for their representative because they didn't vote for Jim Jordan or Pence because he didn't agree to coup an election for Trump. The purity tests are so intense and instaneous nowadays.
Since Trump is going the Nazi way, it's a win-win, innit?
Name a democratic Muslim country with free elections.
E: the fact I only got one response should be proof enough. when you have societies that tend to gravitate towards dictators, strong men, or are hostage to royal families, that’s what you’re gonna get.
Indonesia.
Single issue voters are myopic
Eh. I’d argue that if your single issue is climate change, you’re rather sharp sighted. But I take your point in general.
The exception that proves the rule 🙂
Two party voters are making sure the ship stays on course for a full impact crash
Islam and far right Christianity have a lot in common. Wouldn't surprise me that the Muslim community would side with the party that wants to limit women's rights and LGBTQ rights.
My dude Arab and Muslim Americans vote for Democrats by like, a 5 to 1 margin, and the Muslims in Congress are among the most progressive in the country. They're saying they don't want to vote for a president enabling ethnic cleansing and THIS is what you're taking from that?
Arab and Muslim activists are currently working with the Conservative party in my jurisdiction to institute clear anti trans laws so yes, I'm taking reality away from this article. I'm literally watching it happen right in front of me, thankfully saner votes prevailed in our last election.
So, like, are they going to vote for the guy that literally has "banning Muslims" as a platform?
They might vote for neither.
So a half vote for the party that wants them banned. Smart.
Same difference
Not really.
Either your vote matters, or it doesn't. You can't have it both ways.
Your vote always matters, especially if you don't vote. The progressives who couldn't bring themselves to vote for Hilary voted for a generation of conservative control over the Supreme Court. The American Muslims who can't bring themselves to vote for Biden are voting for persecution.
Every Muslim voter is going to choose between 'not their ally' and 'their enemy'. They can skip the polls, but they're going to vote whether they like it or not.
Nothing says “land of the free” like being forced to vote against your own interests no matter what.
Best. System. Ever.
You could vote for pink balloons, does that matter?
Ok, but then don‘t cry when Trump gets reelected
Welp…good lucky with that other guy, whomever that might be.
My feeling is that this "betrayed" part of Muslim is the socially conservative one that voted left because the right was racists and pro Israel. But if the left is pro Israel as well, then they might as well vote right to get conservative (pro life, misogynistic) policies forward
TBH, the bizarre cognitive dissonance in all these religious types (pick one) bypasses all rational thought processes.
Yep nothing is rational about "I'm not voting at all if I don't get my way!" That's how it is when you're a baby but doesn't work out in the real world. Not voting is a vote for the alt right. All they'll get as a result is a Republican dictatorship where they'd have to end up leaving the country.
this is beyond islamophobic lmao the people supporting palestinians are a massive front of liberal muslims. Just because they don't support endless bombing by an islamophobic apartheid regime doesn't mean they're misogynistic. Fuck outta here.
Bruh.
Sorry dont know why I bother on subs like this its a bunch of "democrat = left wing and conservative = right wing" dullards. Feel free to disregard. x
“I am willing to vote for a much worse actual fascist monster who will 100% use his presidency to destroy democracy and those that tried to hold him accountable, all because Biden… stood with an ally during a horrendous terrorist attack even though because of Biden Israel has slowed its roll and allowed aid in”
The full brainless take from that moron. What an emotionally stunted bullshit opinion
Or they could just not vote at all like most Americans
In a two party system, abstention is a vote for the person you hate most.
That is why you stop using that system on the first place.
If most third party voters or vote boycotters were actively working on, in one way or another, opening avenues for ending the two party hegemony, I'd be all ears. But as it stands most are just being idealists and hoping that works out for them.
If only.
I agree and I always vote
Where did they say who they were voting for instead?
They didn't. Most people don't understand the concept that politicians should earn your vote by their own merits, not just against the worse option of their competitor. Refusing to vote for a candidate who goes against your best interests is a part of your civic duty, even if the alternative is no better.
I totally agree.
There will never be a candidate that exactly matches your best interests. You need to consider the overall and cast yourself your vote for the one who comes closest to your interests.
It doesn't have to exactly match, but there should be enough overlap that you don't feel as though you're just supporting the 'lesser oppressor.'
Unfortunately, most people like being oppressed or controlled so we don't get any politicians that fight back against it.
Not to mention Trump or any of the republican contenders would be far more extreme on middle east issues.
Totally agree with you. I'm impressed with Biden's strategy. This is what expert diplomacy looks like. The US is acting like a true friend to Israel by supporting them while also moderating their thirst for revenge, which of course also helps the Palestinians and may prevent the wider Middle East from escalating into a regional war. Biden may be old, but he actually learned something about statecraft during all those years in politics.
So their option would be...what?
I will simply not vote, unless I get another decent option like Bernie Sanders. Any other genocide denying piece of shit can kick rocks.
Bernie did a speech about his support of Israel just last week.
It seems like he supports keeping an ally and also minimizing human suffering. Curious where I can find that speech of his? Is it in line with these press releases of his?
Good statements. Condemning Hamas while acknowledging the suffering in Gaza. And I read it in his voice lol.
It was during the senate debate about support for Israel and Ukraine
You may not see a choice that gets better in your single issue, but not voting may be a choice for the worse on many issues you also care about
Yeah, I don't think people understand that elections are a zero sum game (especially in a two party system). Not voting essentially becomes a vote for the other party, since one less vote lowers the threshold for one party to win over the other.
What if you don't like either side equally? Which side does your non-vote go to? Or, by your logic, are you technically voting twice for the negative aspects of both sides?
Since Republicans can and do win the presidency without a popular majority, I'd say not voting at all favors them. They understand this and it's why they always try to reduce voter turnout.
That's honestly a fair argument, and stated well.
I believe I'll vote for a third party candidate!
I can't not upvote a Simpsons reference.
No amount of mental gymnastics is going to convince me to vote for someone who actively aided a genocide.
Genocide denying? Best I can tell Biden is in support of stopping the violence and negotiating peace which would be a two state solution.
He referred to the calls for a ceasefire as "abhorrent"
100% sounds like you're talking out your ass right now, but if you have a source I'll change my mind.
Sorry he said "disgraceful" not abhorrent, but, yeah I feel you on the cognitive dissonance, it's a bizarre take.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4248451-white-house-calls-lawmakers-not-backing-israel-wrong-disgraceful/
Not choosing is still making a choice
A man giving up his life for the USA is not enough to stop Trump from berating that soldier's surviving family publicly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khizr_and_Ghazala_Khan
If Arab and Muslim want to choose that over Biden because of Palestine well then I'll not contribute ever again to a rebuilding of the mosque in my community.
Consider my face eaten, leopards.
How many times have you contributed to a rebuilding of the mosque in your community?
Twice. Once in the town I live near here in the PNW another the town another family member lives in the Midwest.
I give money to temples when I see antisemitic stuff in the news. And when African American churches are targeted I donate to them, too.
I am a pagan, and I sacrifice to my gods all the time food, spice, and liquor. I throw them coins, but the gods never take those so I usually pick up the coins and go inside.
religion makes people do the dumbest shit
If I have to choose between eating a shit sandwich and a shit sandwich with broken glass, I'm gonna choose the one without the broken glass every time. So many people seem to think that eating the one with broken glass, or letting someone else choose, is somehow taking a stand against shit sandwiches.
If enough people get angry and vote third party, it can change the outcome of an election.
This incentivizes both parties to minimize the amount of people they anger in a close race.
If enough people get angry at one time they can change the outcome in a way that's essentially random. Come on, the math is really not that hard.
So who are they going to vote for then? I cannot believe that they would imagine Trump to be more sympathetic to their cause, if anything, Israel would receive even stronger backing were he the President
Didn't he basically put a fire to the whole conflict by moving the embassy to Jerusalem?
They obvioualy haven't heard what Trump and the right said about Hamas then, or they wouldnt be thinking that way.
This is a best case scenario.
because of biden we got the ground invasion put off and humanitarian aid flowing into gaza...
Shh, don't tell them that. They are still busy thinking Israel bombed that hospital.
i mean it is awful that the us is blocking an independent investigation into it....
Or did he lie about that like he lied about headless babies? And hundreds of other claims from him
With your username I can never tell if you're a parody account. If you are, you are tonally perfect and I am very impressed.
Yeah, vote for a republican because that’s definitely not going to fuck you. And let’s fucking be real, all you pedants: a vote other than Biden is a vote for the republican traitor filth.
No it's not.
The world isn't black and white.
American politics is a zero-sum game and will be for the foreseeable future.
It’s a binary decision. Accept it or not.
And the binary choices never change right? That's why we still have the Whig Party on the US ballot?
Look, you wanna shoot yourself in the dick because you can’t accept reality, I don’t care. Have at it.
That makes no sense whatsoever to me. And I'm not alone, that I know for sure. I mean the whole ordeal: religion, war, hate, the economic construct of "nations" - I don't get it anymore. Actually never had.
😂 lol so they want trump.... Who wants to wipe out all Muslims.
Muslims make up less than 1% of the U.S. population, which is much less than the margin of any presidential election in my lifetime, so I doubt Biden is losing too much sleep over this.
You forget that the US isn't a Democracy. In 2016, Trump won Michigan by less than 12,000 votes. Dearborn, MI has 100,000 people, roughly half of which are Arab-American.
Does that mean Biden has to listen to them? Biden did win Michigan by 150,000 votes in 2020, and people never vote 100% by their ethnicity, so they probably won't swing the election all on their own. And there could be worse consequences even just in MI for even a small budge in the direction of Palestine. But, if I were Biden, I'd be thinking about it.
Horse-race bullshit aside, he should support Palestine because it's the right thing to do. So ultimately I support these people; the outcome at the very least is the Biden admin is going to think harder about maintaining their level of support for Israel, and that's a good thing.
Seems kinda weak, just stating who you don't support. And to be a single issue voter is dangerous.
Presidents tend to betray everyone at some point.
Biden is going to need to reach out to Muslim, Black, Latino, and Asian voters. Any one of them, on their own, won't swing the election, but a combination of them deciding to just stay home will give us Trump 2.0.
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/04/942262760/majority-of-muslims-voted-for-biden-but-trump-got-more-not-less-support
"In fact, Trump appears to have gotten more, not less support from American Muslims. Associated Press exit polls show 35% of Muslims voted for Trump and 64% for Joe Biden. A separate poll from a Muslim civil rights group found that 17% of Muslims voted for Trump, but that was still up by 4 percentage points from its poll in 2016.
Muslims make up a small percentage of the population, but their vote is key in states such as Michigan. It's a state where Biden won by about 155,000 votes. Trump won Michigan in 2016 by under 11,000."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/black-men-drifted-democrats-toward-trump-record-numbers-polls-show-n1246447
"In Obama’s first presidential campaign, 95 percent of Black male voters and 96 percent of Black women chose him. Four years later, support from Black women remained at 96 percent for Obama’s 2012 re-election, while the figure for Black men slid to 87 percent.
In 2016, when the nominee was Hillary Clinton, Black men dropped further to 82 percent while Black women’s support for Clinton remained high at 94 percent. Biden came close to matching that this year, garnering the support of 91 percent of Black women."
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/30/new-trump-poll-women-hispanic-voters-497199
"But Biden only won Hispanic voters by 21 points, 59 percent to 38 percent, down significantly from Clinton’s 38-point advantage, 66 percent to 28 percent. There was a slight gender gap — Biden won Hispanic men by 17 and Hispanic women by 24 — but Trump surged broadly among Hispanics, especially among Hispanic voters without a college degree.
Trump “had about a 10-point gain from 2016 to 2020 in the share of Hispanic voters who supported him,” said Ruth Igielnik, a senior researcher at Pew."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/asian-americans-voted-biden-63-31-reality-more-complex-n1247171
Biden won the Asian demo 63-31, but that's down from Clinton's numbers of 65-27. Trump actually did better against Biden despite the anti-China rhetoric and rise in attacks on Asian citizens.
"While Biden performed well among Asian Americans, the data suggest that Trump didn't lose support with the group, either. Paul Ong, a research professor at the UCLA Luskin School of Public Affairs, said he expected more movement away from Trump because of his use of xenophobic and discriminatory language to describe the pandemic, such as "kung flu" and "China virus."
Ong said that during the pandemic, anti-Asian sentiment across the country has contributed to both hate incidents as well as an unprecedented increase in Asian American unemployment and business closings."
Two articles about trump from 4 days ago:
https://www.newarab.com/news/trump-vows-expel-anti-israel-immigrants-ban-muslims
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-pledges-expel-immigrants-who-support-hamas-ban-muslims-us-2023-10-16/
There isn't a better alternative for them that has a chance right now.
Imagine being more upset with the US than Hamas in this situation.
Everyone please ignore the bad faith actors.
Daily reminder to please vote logically.
It seems that many commenters in this thread did not read the article, which said that many are going to leave the top of the ticket blank, aka abstain from the presidential vote, while many are going to vote 3rd party.
Not voting for Biden does not automatically mean a vote for Trumpty Dumpty, or whomever ends up with the nomination (unlikely it won't be him, I know, but after 2016, I don't take anything for granted).
The older I get, the more sick and tired I get of people making this flawed argument...
Pop quiz: In a tug-of-war, what happens when people on the left decide to let go of the rope?
American elections are just like a tug-of-war, between the Democrats (on the left) and the Republicans (on the right). And in that type of game you're either pulling the rope towards your side or giving up ground. Whether we like it or not, by the design of the American political system itself there are two viable teams, and if you don't support the team that's generally pulling in your direction, then you are making it that much easier for the other team to pull the country further away from what you want.
In other words, it's just plain stupid not to vote. Votes are power, and just like the rope, every inch of power that one side concedes will end up in the hands of the other side. And we've seen what happens when the wrong people get power, time and again: corruption, war, pandemic, erosion of human and civil rights, economic crashes, failure of governance, and so on.
If you care about which side wins the tug of war, you'd better pull the damn rope. And please, if you decide to let go, don't feign surprise and upset at the very obvious results.
Leaving the ticket blank is for people who truly don't know what they want, and people who don't understand how elections work.
Won't vote for Biden? Then you deserve Trump and all that comes with him.
They do maybe but the rest of us and democracy itself doesn’t
That's fair.
Democrats have been running the same candidate since the Clinton era.
We could use someone new.
Yeah, the guy that calls you "Moose-limbs" has your back. /s
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In a series of more than a dozen roundtable discussions with Muslim community leaders in the two weeks since the Oct. 7 attack by Hamas, Ramadan said the main takeaway is that “people are very disappointed.” They say they “will not forget what President Biden did and why he lied to them,” he added.
In rolling conversations in Michigan and beyond over the past two weeks, Muslim elected officials, activists and community leaders have coalesced around a plan to mobilize their constituents to vote next year — but also to encourage them to leave the top of the ticket blank in protest, according to multiple people involved in the discussions.
Immediately after his Oval Office address Thursday night, Biden called the family of Wadea Al-Fayoume, the 6-year-old Palestinian American boy slain in Illinois in what prosecutors say was an anti-Muslim hate crime.
Top officials like national security adviser Jake Sullivan have held meetings with Arab and Muslim American community leaders to discuss ways to combat Islamophobia.
Muslims make up only 1.3% of the U.S., about half the size of the Jewish population, but advocates argue their votes are critical in battleground states that may be won or lost on narrow margins, including Michigan, Minnesota, Georgia and Arizona.
That anger has been especially felt in Dearborn, where the city’s mayor has been excoriating Biden and other officials on social media for being “silently complicit in some of the most horrific war crimes our eyes have witnessed, funded by our tax dollars.”
The original article contains 1,907 words, the summary contains 250 words. Saved 87%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Nice free countries where we can't vote not one but two political parties
Not the brightest
Lol I warned everyone this exact situation would happen
Especially after Biden did a whole shill thing for Muslims on stage.
Will be nice to see him get kicked in the teeth for elections, although I can't say I'm looking forward to seeing some brain dead republican take his place
go live in Gaza then
I love how the liberals in the comments are coping.
I love how your post history really shows how you're not coping, like at all. Are you doing OK?
I'm a straight-passing white male liberal with a high level of income. It's no skin off my back if you elect someone who hates you and everything you care about.
Have fun with your protest vote.