Jews in Israel and internationally, please Stand up to your government. You know this is wrong. Kill the babies? Listen to what they are saying.
Your government is fucked up. You have let fear and revenge drive your country to madness. Look in your hearts, would a loving and just God want this? I don't care what any book says, look in your heart. You know this is wrong.
Every western government has been complicit in this genocide. USA most of all. None of this could have occurred had it not been for the funding and the diplomatic cover provided by our governments. It's up to all of us to make it stop.
Lets not include Spain and the Republic of Ireland on it, who have even tried to get the EU to sanction Israel for this.
But yeah, the rest are a disgrace, after the US especially Germany, who once again because of the etnicity of the aggressors, unwaveringly supports their committing of genocide along etnic lines and were the political and media "elites" even deploy Goebbels-style propaganda on this against its own populations. It was pretty dissapointing for me to see that whilst the national socialist party of the german worker is gone (though at the hands of others, not because it was kicked out by the Germans themselves), their cold violent racist ways are alive and well, at least amongst the German "elites".
Oh yeah? Pray tell, how do we do that? And mind you, you've also got Iran in play, Egypt is doing its thing, and they would both react in their own way.
Like would you suggest NATO troops on the ground? How do you think Hamas would react to that?
What tactics has the West utilized against Russia that they have not employed against Israel?
Economic sanctions.
Apply them to Israeli leadership in the military and in politics. Plus Business leaders and bankers.
Prevent Israeli banking institutions "from accessing SWIFT, the international system for financial transactions, and restricting access to Western financial markets."
Ban Israeli access to international goods and services import as well as export. Let's see how long their military can go without oil.
Well, I think the US public has been pretty vocal about this compared to most issues. People are really pissed at Biden. So don't change the subject.
I think it's time we start publicly shaming Israelis and Jews who don't make strong statements condemning the murder of civilians and protesting the reckless-at-best and seemingly genocidal actions of their government.
publicly shaming Israelis and Jews
This is about Zionism. It's not about Jews. If you make it about Jews you are falling for the Zionist tactic of equating the two. Do better
Really I just meant the international community of Jewish people. Many of them have strong opinions about matters related to Israel.
As a member of the international community of Jews, I think what Israel is doing is monstrous and disgusting. But I am in no way responsible for what they do. I don’t live there, I’ve never been there, and I have zero ability to influence Israeli policy beyond expressing my disapproval, which I often do.
Stop spreading the misinformation that Israel = all Jews.
I understand your frustration at what I am saying, but I believe you have more influence over the Israeli people than I do as a non-jew. Am I wrong? I just imagine that Israeli jews would take more seriously and be more introspective after receiving critical comments from a fellow Jewish person, who presumably is more in tune with the worries and historical context of the Jewish community than a non Jewish person is.
My opinion is more easily decried as antisemitic or ignorant and waved away. Yours is not.
When Christians do horrible things in the name of god, don't you think being called out by other Christians is going to carry some more weight?
What would make you think this? Just because we happen to share an ethnicity doesn’t mean an entire nation will listen to me or give me any entitlement to tell them what to do. Nor is it my responsibility, as a Jew.
And people who make decisions based on ancient mythology aren’t exactly making rational decisions in the first place, so I don’t know why an appeal on that basis would work. I may be a Jew, but I’m also an atheist. The last thing this situation needs is more religion.
Unfortunately, there's no commonly accepted distinction between Jews who practice Judaism, Zionists, and ethnic Jews, At least not that I'm aware of. I do recognize that there is a difference, And if I were you, I would be pointing out the difference also.
I'm sorry, man.It sounds like this is rough for you to be tied to these people by the Jewish label. I hope sometime in this century. All this b******* gets sorted out For everyone's sake.
The difference between Jews and Zionists is the same as between Christians and Christo-Fascists.
Believers vs. Believers who believe they need to be in control because God picked them and all others are lesser.
Folks are welcome to believe what they want to believe, it's when they want to use that belief to restrict other people that it's a problem.
Yes there is— you just listed them. And what i find especially despicable is people like you who speak out of both sides of your mouth while disingenuously trying to appear “understanding” and civil. If you really felt bad for anyone, you wouldn’t be here making accusations and “just asking questions” in bad faith, trying to provoke an argument.
I said commonly accepted. I'm sorry, but those distinctions are lost on the general public.And what we need is the general public to put pressure on politicians. But sure, whatever, Let's get pissy and fight amongst ourselves. I'm sure that will help.
And don't compare me to that just asking questions Tucker Carlson, bullshit. I don't care where you live. I don't think it's a big ask for someone to stand up and say killing civilians is a bad thing.
It’s pretty arrogant of you to think you get to speak for the “general public”. And you weren’t asking for someone to stand up and say killing civilians is a bad thing— you have been saying that I, as a Jew, should lecture all of Israel about what they’re doing and they they should listen just because I happen to be a Jew also. Did you suddenly get struck by amnesia and forget what you’ve been saying this whole time? Because you can scroll up and review your past comments if you forgot what you said. Everyone else who’s read this far sure saw what you said.
You say you don’t want to be compared to Tucker Carlson, then I suggest you drop his bad faith, bs “debate” style.
I think it's time we start publicly shaming Israelis and Jews who don't make strong statements condemning the murder of civilians and protesting the reckless-at-best and seemingly genocidal actions of their government.
Are you deliberately trying to use the same language as was used against Muslims 20 years ago?
No, I guess I don't get your reference, unless you are referring to 911?
If so it would be the Americans needing to condemn their government for invading Iraq, not the Muslims condemning 911.
Not exactly like every Jew is Israeli, in fact Israel is the one trying to force the narrative that they are, because it reinforces that narrative to those Jews when people actually do antisemitic shit
It's a settler recruitment strategy.
Not to mention the view that being anti-genocide is antisemitic - a deeply stupid, dishonest, antisemitic position that gives the best possible justification one could give for the extermination of the Jews.
and internationally
Jewish people have nothing to do with Israel. There is no greater burden on them than us
Perfect example of the antisemitism channeled by this war...
Same kind of bullshit of asking a random Muslim on the street to denounce IS when they bombed something...
"But if you call it a genocide you're an antisemite."
-AIPAC
If it came from an arab or muslim religious figure, western media mainstream media wouldn't shut up about it for weeks. but an Israeli figure calling for extermination of an entire ethnic group passes under their radar and keep giving moral and legal ammunition to Israel to carry on its genocide in Gaza.
Really? Because searching with the roles reversed I definitely see similar statements had been made but only see coverage by ideologically aligned sites:
So it just looks more like the mainstream press isn't interested in reporting what religious zealots say outside of very narrow windows of relevance to major recent news stories (and even then rather sparingly).
That's a lot of very outdated and out of context links you put there.
Also some there interpret anti semitism very liberally.
You are so caught up in your agenda that you aren't even thinking though what you are saying.
Would it make more sense to discuss a pattern of behavior in the media by linking to multiple examples over an extended period of time or to only show examples within a narrow period of time?
Also some there interpret anti semitism very liberally.
In this case, people call literally tell from the URLs in the comment that your sealioning on this particular point is BS.
Except your examples are not examples of anti-Semitism. As everyone knows now Zionists call every criticism of israel anti-semitic.
Take Ryna Workman, the president of the NYU Law Student Bar Association who sent a message to "y'all" expressing "my unwavering and absolute solidarity with Palestinians in their resistance against oppression toward liberation and self-determination. Israel bears full responsibility for this tremendous loss of life. . .. I will not condemn Palestinian resistance."
Did this man say "I want to kill all the Jews" according to you?
You have a weird hangup here dude. You aren't at all engaging with my comment about media coverage, but are instead pulling a random excerpt from the opinion piece a few days after the Oct 7th attack to discuss....what?
The opinion piece doesn't even call that 'antisemitism.' You cut off the lines immediately before it, which makes no claim in line with what you allude:
The Harvard students hardly stand alone in their abhorrent willingness to cast Hamas as freedom fighters rather than bloodthirsty terrorists. Equally offensive statements blaming Israel and effectively applauding Hamas abound at other universities and colleges too numerous to list. Take Ryna Workman, the president of the NYU Law Student Bar Association...
The author of that opinion piece is entirely entitled to the opinion that victim blaming terrorist attacks on civilians is offensive to them, just as there's plenty of opinion pieces to the other direction that denying human rights violations is offensive to a lot of other people. That's kind of the point of opinion pieces - to express an opinion.
But the brunt of the examples I provided in the main part of my comment (the many examples of religious leaders calling for the ethnic killing of the people they don't like) were completely in line with the OP article.
The last two were simply included as examples of how little the mainstream press covers "these people call for genocide" claims from any side except when relevant to recent news - and to that point one of the only two mainstream pieces was an opinion piece.
You're basically making my central point in citing the Newsweek opinion piece's shortcomings - that contrary to the theory of the person I replied to, there's little to no coverage of religious figure calls for violence outside of limited sets of articles with clear agendas.
You pasted random Hasbara from internet that you didn't read and called criticism of israel anti-Semitic. If anyone is pushing an agenda it's you.
Not condemning Hamas equals calling for the genocide of all Jews?
Joke articles.
You pasted random Hasbara from internet that you didn't read and called criticism of israel anti-Semitic.
Citation needed, as it appears we're just making up straw men now. In this comment thread, I literally didn't even write the word 'antisemitism' outside of quoting your use of it.
Yeah, that's not true coverage of the topic... give me a break.
Did you read any of his links? Quote me the part where people say something anti-semitic.
In a July 21 lecture posted on the Davis Masjid YouTube channel, Muslim preacher Ammar Shahin spoke in English and Arabic about how all Muslims, not only Palestinians or Syrians, will be called upon to kill all the Jews on "the last day."
In a video translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI), Shahin also stressed that the Hadith (oral tradition of sayings attributed to the prophet of Islam) does not say where the final battle will take place. "If it is in Palestine," for example, "or another place," hinting at the possibility that such a battle could happen in the United States or Europe as well.
He also prayed that al-Aksa mosque be liberated from "the filth of the Jews."
In a clip of the kids’ TV show “The Pioneers of Tomorrow,” broadcast on May 2 and uploaded Thursday by the MEMRI media watchdog, the host of the program, a young girl in a hijab, interviews two very young children, one of whom says she hopes to be a police officer like her uncle Ahmad.
The host asks what policemen do, and, after establishing that they catch criminals, adds that “they shoot Jews, right?” and stresses to her young guest that “you want to be like him.”
“I will shoot the Jews!” the little child says.
“All of them?” the host asks.
“Yes,” the girl says
“Good,” the host answers.
In a previous segment, a co-host of the show, an anthropomorphic bee character, talks on the phone with a child in the West Bank Jenin refugee camp, and encourages him, if Jews come into the camp, to “punch them” and “turn their faces into tomatoes in order to liberate Palestine.”
LOL that's what I'm talking about... I can see the reply already "that's not true anti-semitism..."
Were there people that call themselves "Jews" attacking the Al Aqsa mosque and violently shooting Muslims one year ago? Do you think he is referring to that? Or is he calling to Genocide all Jewish children there?
Were there people that call themselves "Jews" attacking the Al Aqsa mosque and violently shooting Muslims one year ago? Do you think he is referring to that?
Considering the first article is from 2017 and the second from 2014, no I don't think either are referring to the Al Aswa mosque violence in 2023.
If they were, that would be really surprising.
That was only in 2023? Strange I recall seeing it quite a few times
They are turning into Nazis arent they? And i thought iron sky was far fetched. Instead, the Nazis have just infested the Jews!
Always been.
There were (and are) many Holocaust survivors which refused to go to Palestine to kill people and steal their land. And actively speak out against israel
People calling for genocide and murder of children are those who are far removed from humanity. They're a nasty burden that the modern society hasn't learned to deal with yet.
There no hate speech laws this breaks? He's literally calling for violence on a group of people.
Israeli laws outlaws hate speech and "expressing support for illegal or terrorist organizations".[9] Section 173 of the legal code makes it a crime to publish any "publication that is liable to crudely offend the religious faith or sentiment of others."[29]
According to Wikipedia. The problem, of course, is that it won't be enforced as long as hate speech is directed against specific groups of people.
A few guys saying similar things got jailed and busted as a terrorist organization in the 90s, the thing is - Israeli institutions have degraded a lot. They have bloodthirsty imbeciles at helm.
...or spoken by other specific groups of people.
He's saying the quiet part out loud...
Lmao, not where Palestinians are concerned. Welcome to Apartheid.
Haven't you heard? All Palestinians are terrorists so this is fine.
Yes, even the babies. Actually especially the babies. /s
Yeah they have a fair history becoming the thing they fought against.
If suffering was a teacher, humanity would have achieved utopia long ago.
I think we'd all just really hate school.
How do you mean?
Every firstborn son in Egypt will die, from the firstborn son of Pharaoh, who sits on the throne, to the firstborn of the slave girl, who is at her hand mill, and all the firstborn of the cattle as well.
You seem to be so enthusiastic about demonizing Jews that you even ignore that this is a story about enslaved people trying to leave.
I think people working on plantations from dawn to sunset till they can work no more would identify quite a lot with this passage.
Oh , the irony.
There can't possibly be any irony, since I've explicitly said "Jews" and not Israelis.
Your attempts to blend in with normal people are, of course, disgusting, but also as subtle as a Nigerian spy in Siberia.
Judges 19 to 21, where after the rape and death of a single person, many thousands are killed, and hundreds more are raped in response.
Really making that ICJ genocide case easy huh.
Man if every one in the world judged every American based on what one crazy preacher said we'd be in some trouble.
Well, the prime minister, the finance minister and the head of defense all have said similar things over there in Israel. At some point you have to believe that what they are saying and their actions are speaking for themselves and their words and actions are saying "no one is innocent and even if they were we are still going to kill them all so we can get the land."
I mean, it's kinda like judging America based on Pat Robertson, the Westboro Baptist Church, Steve Bannon, Steve Miller, and Trump.
Yes, we should beleive people like Trump when they say how awful they are. The fact that he was elected and is the presumptive Republican nominee says a lot about the American right, right now. But it definitely doesn't mean that Americans in general are awful people.
Are these people:
Pat Robertson, the Westboro Baptist Church, Steve Bannon, Steve Miller, and Trump.
Currently in charge?
Because Ben Gvir, Smotrich, and Bibi Netanyahu are all literally in charge of the country commiting genocide right now.
What's the purpose of that "currently"? Because if you meant that what's in the past is less real, it's not. Just removed from us by one coordinate.
It means there was a majority of people who decided these people shouldn't be in charge after witnessing what they did when they were in charge?
That wasn't the case when they were in charge, obviously.
Their party is about to get shit canned, because Israel is a democracy and these people don't represent the people.
Israel is a democracy despite that almost everyone who has power in the government is a racist genocidal maniac?
There's no democracy in MENA.
Rabbi Eliyahu Mali and his Yeshiva are sponsored by Benjamin Netanyahu’s government
I'm guessing you've never seen CPAC.
Yeah, although if the American state were sponsoring said crazy preacher it would be an issue. The Rabbi and his Yashiva are sponsored by the Israeli government as the article makes clear.
I don't know if you haven't been paying attention to Mike Johnson and some of the Republicans lately but well..
In what way aren't the crazy preachers representative of a massive segment of the population here?
I gave you the grand old party.
I never understood why some people would say it was anti semitic to criticize Israel in certain ways, like people say the BDS movement is racist, but it's exactly things such as this that made me start to see it, and now I can't unsee it. People rabidly hold Israel to a different standard and only one explanation consistently makes sense.
One Jewish nutbag bloviating his hatred into the void is asserted by some as evidence the the whole of Israel has evil, genocidal intent.
Targeted bombings of tunnels, valid military targets, with cell phone warnings, pamphleting, and roof knocking is described as indiscriminate.
Not giving foreigners the same rights as natively born or naturalized citizens is called literal "apartheid."
Israel must stop bombing immediately or America should burn our alliance and feed the Jews to Iran, only Israel though, for Hamas it's all "keep up the good work! Death to America!"
Palestinians in Gaza are natively born. They are not foreigners.
This is a Jewish Israeli extremist. Dont judge all of us based on this abhorrent example.
This is a Jewish Israeli extremist.
... who teaches at a yeshiva that gets its funding from the Israeli government.... guess he's not so extreme he can't get government funding. Embarrassing. Even in the relatively thoughtless USA we would cancel that sponsorship in a second.
Do Israeli institutions not have mechanisms to dismiss officials who vocalize rhetoric like this?
They have mechanisms to dismiss the rest
No clue. I'm just pointing out the existing association. He could be 1 in 1000 or he could be in 1 in 4.
Actually those yeshivas to get funding from Israeli government are more likely to be extremist.
Israeli democracy often resembles more of a Jewish "theocracy" I say that as a former Israeli voter. There is a huge coalition of religious politicians that work together to keep money flowing to the orthodox haredi voters whonare invaluable to them.
I have taken pains to point out that Zionism does not equate Judaism. Three of the men from whom I have learned the most about this conflict are all Jewish, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein and Ilan Pappé.
It’d be like asking Hamas the same question, clearly we shouldn’t judge the Palestinian innocents on Hamas’ views, nor should we judge Israel on this guys views
I'll judge Israelis on the actions and words of their representatives and armes forces.
Doesn't seem that much different to this extremist.
Majority held views among the population are in support of Gazan genocide and withholding all food from entering Gaza. The settler society at all levels understands its interests demand genocide.
Exactly my point, this extremist does speak for the majority.
No judgement to you all from me. War is a conductive environment for extremism. War is hell, after all.
Don't worry, we're judging you (Israel) by your actions, which... checks notes... are in full alignment
He is not just an extremist but also an Idiot.
Killing everyone in Gaza is just dumb because there are also several 10.000 Israeli soldiers in Gaza.
But meh... we already learned that extremism breads brain rot. Hamas is proof of it.
Crass
Drax? Is that you?
Ok, well if that's the case what is your community going to do to ensure he does not receive support from you, and that he can not recruit from within you, and that your community does not produce more extremists like him?
Usually in this type of situation the answer is to act outraged on social media.
Not the OP, but sadly, the israeli state has a vested interest in supporting rabbis like him who act as an arm of extreme statist propaganda.
Even though the "disciples" of these kinds of rhetoric are not likely to serve in the military, they will egg on the existing population and do their spiel of making bullshit stories up.
And while I'd love to be in a position to go all "not all of us are like that", and while I'm aware there are some Israelis who fight to get food in gaza, my entire family and most of my friends and colleagues spout this kind of extreme rhetoric, and i honestly feel like I'm slowly losing my mind over it.
There is not much willing in any community, and not much hope anything will change internally for the time being.
Most of my family believes similarly to this Rabbi. I feel like if I try to defend the Palestinians or put an ounce of blame on the Israeli occupation I'll be excommunicated.
I instead try to teach the undecided, usually the ones who have been ignorant to the situation or those who haven't yet "taken a side". I grew up in an orthodox Jewish settlement on the west bank so I belibe I can speak with some amount of authority.
Your situation sounds pretty miserable and you do have my sympathy.
I'm naive to the nuance of the Israel / Gaza / extremist situation. My comment was just a tongue in cheek commentary on the nature of ideologies and extremism.
Ideologies tend to attract and / or produce nutters, provide them succour, but then disclaim their behaviours.
And more importantly, is it ok if we carpetbomb his neighbourhood?
To be fair to the old testament it's not factual history. Those no proof of a Unified Kingdom of Israel and no proof for any of Joshua's conquests. Even though we have evidence of much older kingdoms in the area such as Yamhad.
If anything the old testament has history reversed. In 722 BC the Assyrians destroy Israel (circa 1000 BC with capital always in Shechem). The refugees move to Judah (circa 900 BC). The Israelites took their religion and rebased it on Jerusalem AFTER Israel got sacked. This means a "Jewish" identity for Israel could not have taken off until the 600 BCs at the earliest. 4000 years of Judaism history my 🍑.
Maccabee came in the 200 BCs and forced people into what we now call Judaism. The reason why a complete Bible cannot be found from the BC era is because the Bible wasn't finished yet.
The oldest fragment of the old testament says that the mountain around Shechem is the holy place.
The Bible says that a lot of the Judahites were bad but all of the Samaritans are bad.
The book of Joshua is archeologically completely anachronistic and false in the Southern Levant.
The early Israelites have only been found to have been peacefully cohabitating with the Canaanites and Philistines in the early Iron Age after they emerged as a population.
Personally, I think like a number of the pre-Judahite stories, that this was coming from an Aegean/Anatolian sea peoples forced relocation into the Southern Levant that ends up absorbed into the Israelite history.
'Yeshua' in Greek can go as either Jesus or Jason.
The Argonauts allegedly had a prophet Mopsus that died in the desert as they traveled by foot from a conflict in North Africa (not long before one of their elite warriors was killed by a shepherd casting a stone from a sling, actually).
There's no walls at the Biblical Jericho at the time these events were supposedly taking place, but Mycenae around 1200 BCE has its walls fall down (and it seems not to have been an earthquake, which was a recent surprise).
There's no evidence of the Israelites being a bunch of tribes conquering nearby cities and certainly not several across an ancestral homeland, but the sea peoples were a confederation of different tribes conquering their various home cities (at a time of various natural disasters were conveniently undermining powerful kingdoms, which was likely a factor in why they were so successful and why this period ends up mythologized with divine interventions).
At one of those battles the sea people were described as being without foreskins. This seems to be the same one day battle against Egypt that Odysseus claimed to have fought right at after the Trojan war.
The parallels get really incredible when you dive deeper into some of them. The recent Aegean style pottery made with local clay in Tel Dan, the only apiary in the "land of milk and honey" importing bees from Anatolia and worshipping an unknown bee goddess, and the song of Deborah ('bee'), prophet and leader of the Israelites, talking about "Dan stayed on their ships" is super fucking interesting for example.
I think a lot of what we think we know about the Mediterranean at the fall of the Bronze Age is due to be turned on its head as the historians of antiquity like Herodotus, Hecateus of Adbera, Atrapanus of Alexandria, Tacitus, and Manetho end up validated with a number of things modern historians have been making fun of with an air of superiority (bizarre given the relative access to documentary and oral traditions and the relationship of that to the likely impacts of survivorship bias).
Or maybe not. There are a lot of weasel words in your write up, seems, alleged, etc, and not many mentions of hard evidence.
If there's a particular area you want more details on, feel free to ask. But to actually include all the nuanced details for the summary above would take about 20 pages, and I really don't think most people here care enough to wade through all that (nor do I care to write all that out on my weekend).
You need hard evidence for events that were essentially before the beginning of written history, but apparently this isn't necessary for their assertions. Weasel words, indeed.
Huh? Written history begins around 2,000 years before these events. What are you talking about?
A number of the relevant pieces of information are the details in contemporary written accounts from Egyptian or Hittite sources which range from royal records of conflicts to letters written between countries.
That's how we know for example that there was actually a single day battle between Egypt and the sea peoples with Libya which Egypt wins and takes captives from seven years before an usurper Pharoh conquered Egypt. There's literally dozens of pages written about that battle by Merneptah. Which then bears a striking resemblance to the mythical story in the Odyssey of Odysseus fighting a one day battle against Egypt where he's taken captive exactly seven years before "a certain Phrygian" shows up to try to ransom him to Libya.
We even have records from Ramses III which describe the end of the 19th dynasty around the time of this usurper as Egypt having been conquered with outside help, switching to a form of government of city state governors, and "making the gods like men." Claims that resemble the Phoenician form of city state government emerging at this time and the claims of Phoenician euhemerism "from around the time of the Trojan War" in Philio of Byblos.
Yeah, but it's pretty shit. It's far from reliable, the Bible counts as part of the historical record and we are reasonably sure there weren't really any giants.
The rest is all Biblio of Biblios, I'm now aware what me rattling off a bunch of science information must sound like to people.
I was supporting your position anyway, you massive, swinging autist.
Why is it that followers of holy books always have a section or two that should be ignored when it's convenient?
'the word of God', but you can toss out whole sections without a second thought, meanwhile, if you break what's said in the other section you're definitely evil
because religion is fake
Apostasy. The religion of Judaism abhors murder. That Rabbi should be defrocked.
This is what one guy said. It is not representative, as a lone data point, of all Jews, all Israelis, or the Israeli government. If you have more data points, feel free to share them, but this one Rabbi's statement doesn't prove any generalisation.
Serious question - where would we see signs of broad Israeli opposition to the genocide? I know Netanyahu is unpopular, but I don't think the genocide is a major factor in that unpopularity.
Unfortunately, I don't think you'll find that as much anymore. One of understated but equally awful side effects of Hamas' very successful pogrom is, in targeting who it did among the Israeli population, it pushed a lot of Israeli society currently in Israel hard right even beyond standard rally around the flag effects. The Israeli left and peace activist movement effectively died last year.
I don’t think we should sensationalize one rabbi talking out his ass but there’s a lot of other data points. Itamar Ben-Gvir (Minister of National Security) and Yoav Gallant (Minister of Defense) say genocidal shit all the time. They’re not random rabbis. South Africa’s case before the ICJ included a lot of direct quotes from leading government officials.
And look: I know that Hamas and probably every other Islamic fundamentalist group’s leadership has said equally awful shit (and worse shit, for that matter). Some of the Israeli quotes came at an extremely traumatic moment. But this is bigger than one rabbi. I don’t think it’s be hard to establish intent if Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir, and Gallant end up getting tried for war crimes.
Edit: I just want to add that most Israelis (and the Jewish diaspora) do not support the current government at this point. They were having mass protests before Hamas attacked.
The he said/she said is getting really old.
It takes willful ignorance at this point to not recognize that both Likud and Hamas have influential representation frothing at the mouth at the idea of ethnic cleansing of the other side.
It certainly isn't all Palestinians or Israelis, it might not even be all of Likud or Hamas.
But the fact there's agents advocating genocidal actions within the governments of each side of the conflict is pretty much indisputable at this point.
The fact a humanitarian crisis has become such a tribalistic litmus test is pretty ridiculous and gross. (And I'm referring to both 'sides' of that tribalism in case anyone thinks this is a unilateral criticism.)
Yeah because it's not like rabbis have any influence over a congregation of people or anything.
I don't think he speaks for all Jewish people or all people in Israel...as far as the government goes...he might not speak for them, but he's definitely harmonizing. As far as data points go, I submit everything that had happened since 1967, with a very specific focus on the last ~5 months.
The problem is this comment doesn't exist in a vaccuum. It's simply the latest statement along these lines.
Sure does make me think we shouldn't have arms deals with theocracies though.
That rules out most of the Middle East, including Saudi Arabia.
While it would be nice to live in a world where strategic defense partnerships could be selected from better bedfellows, it's not like there's a plethora of good options to choose from in the area.
If it were up to me all arms sales to the Middle East would stop. I see absolutely no benefit to anyone within 1,500 miles of the Red Sea having access to so much as a single 9mm handgun cartridge.
While I agree in principle, I kind of get (especially after the invasion of Ukraine) why USINT has had a hard on for strategic opposition of Russia all these years.
I have a feeling if it was up to both of us we'd just not have arms sales or production anywhere and have those resources instead invested into research and development of things to help advance humanity. But in a world not up to either of us, I can understand hard choices even if they don't sit well with me.
Only thing this obvious fascist is missing is the Hugo Boss uni
Ah yes organized religion
Judaism in theory is not one (like there's no religious leadership, no central authority, and no clear idea who should be burned as a heretic). But in Israel they have the main rabbinate (maybe even two, I don't remember) and have built a pretty hierarchical structure, not really resembling Jewish religious organizations anywhere else.
Just because it is not the RCC doesn't mean it isn't organized. There is a spectrum between random people building ancestor shrines and the pyramid structure the Catholics have. Judaism lies much closer to organized side of the spectrum.
And I'm this particular case, with the government directly funded this shaman with tax dollars, we can be even safer to say that.
There is a spectrum between random people building ancestor shrines and the pyramid structure the Catholics have. Judaism lies much closer to organized side of the spectrum.
That's what I said, it doesn't. There's no hierarchy in Judaism, at all. Except for Israel, again.
Anyway, every religion gets turned in all the ways the encompassing society wants it turn. Say, speaking of "Taoism in China" is impossible, because that's a myriad of things, both in terms of the cult itself, and the structure, and whatever else.
How very biblical
It does seem old testament...
This is nothing new. Israel doing has been doing this for decades.
It's basically the same as what Hamas has been saying forever. Basically both sides want eachother wiped out.
Yikes. Not a good look at all.
🤦♀️ "Let's do what we're already doing!"
Like wtf
"They make a desert and call it peace."
Why? Was one of them prophesied to be a king someday?
Abhorrent.
1
By the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept
when we remembered Zion.
2
There on the poplars
we hung our harps,
3
for there our captors asked us for songs,
our tormentors demanded songs of joy;
they said, “Sing us one of the songs of Zion!”
4
How can we sing the songs of the Lord
while in a foreign land?
5
If I forget you, Jerusalem,
may my right hand forget its skill.
6
May my tongue cling to the roof of my mouth
if I do not remember you,
if I do not consider Jerusalem
my highest joy.
7
Remember, Lord, what the Edomites did
on the day Jerusalem fell.
“Tear it down,” they cried,
“tear it down to its foundations!”
8
Daughter Babylon, doomed to destruction,
happy is the one who repays you
according to what you have done to us.
9
Happy is the one who seizes your infants
and dashes them against the rocks.
Not quoting this to express my support, just reminded me of of the genocidal Psalm 137
1944 was how long ago? That's how long it took for a jewish person to sound just like a rabid Nazi.
Wow, Egyptians, 2000 BCE. Thats setting the ole Wayback Machine to high.
Wow, perhaps, but if you think we're going to leave you here, you are most definitely in DE-NILE!
Mr. Peabody
There's a story in the Talmud about Hillel the elder, a rabbi who died in 10 CE:
There was another incident involving one gentile who came before Shammai and said to Shammai: Convert me on condition that you teach me the entire Torah while I am standing on one foot. Shammai pushed him away with the builder’s cubit in his hand. This was a common measuring stick and Shammai was a builder by trade. The same gentile came before Hillel. He converted him and said to him: That which is hateful to you do not do to another; that is the entire Torah, and the rest is its interpretation. Go study.
Yep, it's generally a stereotypical Hassidic thing to quote Hillel at random moments
Which is why it's thankfully still not as genocidal as both its offsprings.
This would be international outrage if a palestinian said this about Israelis
Same thing they did to the Canaanites. They haven't changed their MO since The Bronze Age Collapse.
Which is fun because under further review it turns out that the Hebrews were Canaanites themselves. They genocided their own neighbors.
Israelites enforcing the word of EL? The Canaanite God of War? Yep. Same exact philosophy that has been handed down since The Bronze Age Collapse. Used against their cousins again.
Just accept that you're Israelite "history" from Exodus on is mythology, as in the authors lied, which was common at the time, and you'll see how these ideas are exactly the same, as are the people espousing such hatred for their fellow humans.
Israelites enforcing the word of EL? The Canaanite God of War? Yep. Same exact philosophy that has been handed down since The Bronze Age Collapse. Their blood may, or may not, be different. Their ideology is exactly the same. Genocide of their cousins.
Just accept that Israelite "history" from Exodus on is mythology, as in the authors lied, which was common at the time, and you'll see how these ideas are exactly the same, as are the people espousing such hatred for their fellow humans.
I think this is basically antisemitism. It has to be pretty blatant for me to play that card, but come on man.
Anti-Semitic? Nah. The Palestinians are a semitic people.
Anti-intentional-ignorance, yeah. I don't care when your fantasy book was written, if you're going to put "holy books," aka the fictional ravings of people that wanted to control others, ahead of science and history, then I have no time for you, other than to put a bullet in your head so that you stop harming the rest of the world.
me no rikee
as are the people espousing such hatred for their fellow humans.
You are likely European by ancestry while writing that, be more self-conscious or something
So basically he said the same exact thing Hamas says about Jews?
The difference is that Israel is considered an occupying power and has responsibilities under international law as such.
"The difference" is that Israel's formal position is not the elimination of Palestinian Arabs. Zionism as we know it primary exists because of widespread genocidal attitudes towards Jews.
I'm not defending Israel's heavy hand here by any means. I am just tired of everyone on the internet feeling free to just ignore all the historical context wrapped up in this conflict.
Israel’s formal position is not the elimination of Palestinian Arabs.
The UN has found credible evidence to the contrary
Zionism was from the very beginning a settler colonial enterprise. Yes genocidal attitudes towards Jews may have been used to promote the idea, but the end goal was always possession of land.
In its initial stage, Zionism was conceived by its pioneers as a movement wholly depending on mechanical factors: there is a country which happens to be called Palestine, a country without a people, and, on the other hand, there exists the Jewish people, and it has no country. What else is necessary, then, than to fit the gem into the ring, to unite this people with this country? The owners of the country [the Turks] must, therefore, be persuaded and convinced that this marriage is advantageous, not only for the [Jewish] people and for the country, but also for themselves.
It's worth noting that the ones who rejected that mandatory Palestine map were the Arab Palestinians.
If it's worth noting, you should cite sources.
I've come to hate people asking for sources in the interwebs. If you ask me for the sources for Gleiwitz or Mainila, or anything else, it'll be as hard to find as on this subject.
People who are ready to invest their time in writing a short comment may not be ready to do that for finding sources for you. And that's valid and doesn't mean you've won an argument or something. Arguments can't be won or lost anyway.
And people who are really ready to find sources are mostly not the good ones, it's, say, genocide denialist Turks\Azeris and the sources they link are trash or don't support what they say.
So you are making it seem that the other side has no sources when they may have and not giving sources seem worse than giving garbage sources.
And on your question - the Wikipedia article has some sources which seem fine.
For me, it's more kind of shocking that so many people feel like they can confidently comment on these events without basic knowledge of the very well known history surrounding them. Someone who has such large gaps in their knowledge probably isn't worth debating further, and simply highlighting those gaps should provide pretty good view to anyone else reading this conversation about what level they are operating on.
This is especially notable when you see accounts which literally do nothing besides comment on this conflict.
I think you are putting unneeded conditions where there should be only one - whether you want to participate for your amusement.
Arguments do not expose truth. Arguments are not won or lost. If the arguing sides are trying to impose some position, to win some fight, then the argument is garbage.
Nothing shocking here either. They do what they want with their time.
people acting like there aren't extremists on both sides of the conflict....
Bombing women and children en masse doesn't make it a conflict, it makes it a slaughter.
They're intentionally preventing food and water from entering Gaza. It's a genocide.
it's been a conflict for 70 years.
and the palestinian government is no saint either
the losers are the both the palestinian and israeli citizens turning our back on israel doesn't help anything. weve long had two state solution policy. it's a shame that the Israeli government has long since forgotten rabin's courage and the palestinian/gazan government cares more about killing israelis than it does helping their people
it’s been a conflict for 70 years.
Oh well in that case it's ok for Isreal to bomb women and children.
and the palestinian government is no saint either
This is a whataboutism.
Oh well in that case it's ok for Isreal to bomb women and children.
no where in my post did i say that....
Then what was the relevance of the sentence?
Half of the population is under 18.
Every new generation, this kind of conflict repeats - Hamas launches a more organized attack, then Israel bombs it into a warzone and redraws the borders.
Hamas, the Palestinian "government" recognized by Israel, is a hardliner terrorist group. After they were elected, Israel stopped holding elections for Palestinians... It's been decades now.
Sigh. As much as I hate Zionists, I'll be the first to say this is not indicative of everyone in Israel nor should all Israelis be criticized for statements like these.
It's the same thing as if an American pastor said shit. They do it all the time and it doesn't matter (much).
Rabbi Eliyahu Mali and his Yeshiva are sponsored by Benjamin Netanyahu’s government
Ahhh yeah the good cops can totally change the system from within!
/s
Whenever some Christians are engaging in hate, they avoid people condemning the whole religion thanks to Jesus's very anti-hate teachings. Judaism doesnt have that. All of the Old Testament's calls for violence against enemies stand without revision, and no sin is forgiven without sacrifice.
Yea, Judaism has no such thing as a deep and extensive set of rabbinical discourses that are as fundamental as the Torah. Really solid and thoughtful observation.
With like 50 pages arguing about how much a woman is worth based on the state of the hymen. No one ever likes to mention what the Talmud has to say on the subject.
Care to share with the people at home the argument about why the Talmud says you can't marry on a Friday and the counter argument and the counter counter argument?
Why? What in the world does your arbitrary cherry picked items have to do with the topic at hand? Are you trying to say that that is the entirety of talmudic discourse and that concepts of charity, stewardship, kindness, and growth are nowhere explored in the Talmud? I'm not saying there aren't many troubling aspects to Jewish liturgical Tesoro tradition. What I am saying is that they're about in par with any religion and shit like the OP posted is pretty fucking ignorant and dumb.
Care to share with the people at home the argument about why the Talmud says you can’t marry on a Friday and the counter argument and the counter counter argument?
This is a Lemmy sir, we don't read religious books we just repeat what other people say about them
’s very anti-hate teachings
Jesus had plenty of hateful messages, they just don't get quoted as much.
Can you give examples?
Sure.
He is quite clear that no one can speak or reach the father except through him. And that he is the light and way and none other. Not exactly a message of religious tolerance.
He affirms all the ancient sexual rules of the OT and even argues that they don't go far enough. Specifically forbidding a divorced woman from marrying. Not exactly sexually open.
When dealing with other ethnic groups he is continuously in contempt of them. Racist
The idea of an eternal hell didn't exist in widely read Jewish writings, we know of only one mention in one book, and plenty of other writings that describe the afterlife much differently. Now comes Jesus who specifically states that ever lasting torment exists and he will judge who gets into heaven or the other place.
Not even the family is respected as an institution. We are told that your love for him must be so great that the love of your own family wouldnt measure up to it.
The single parable he mentions about slavery doesn't condemn slavery and in fact demands that humans act as slaves.
The doctrine the man supposedly preached was that a select few that abandoned their property, their obligations, their family, knew his secret message, and loved him would inherit the kingdom of God and everyone else would go to hell. If you want to worship slightly different, have a sex life, own something of your own, think for yourself, or are unlucky enough to be from a different ethnic group torment awaits you
He is quite clear that no one can speak or reach the father except through him. And that he is the light and way and none other. Not exactly a message of religious tolerance.
By the same standard the pope is hateful. You may or may not agree with this, depending on your opinion of the pope.
Well less hateful since he seems to believe that Jews and Muslims don't go to hell since they have their own deal worked out and despite his many many flaws he isn't particularly known for racism.
Still an ass
"A huge asshole, but at least he's not racist!" -- damned by faint praise
Jews in Israel and internationally, please Stand up to your government. You know this is wrong. Kill the babies? Listen to what they are saying.
Your government is fucked up. You have let fear and revenge drive your country to madness. Look in your hearts, would a loving and just God want this? I don't care what any book says, look in your heart. You know this is wrong.
Every western government has been complicit in this genocide. USA most of all. None of this could have occurred had it not been for the funding and the diplomatic cover provided by our governments. It's up to all of us to make it stop.
Lets not include Spain and the Republic of Ireland on it, who have even tried to get the EU to sanction Israel for this.
But yeah, the rest are a disgrace, after the US especially Germany, who once again because of the etnicity of the aggressors, unwaveringly supports their committing of genocide along etnic lines and were the political and media "elites" even deploy Goebbels-style propaganda on this against its own populations. It was pretty dissapointing for me to see that whilst the national socialist party of the german worker is gone (though at the hands of others, not because it was kicked out by the Germans themselves), their cold violent racist ways are alive and well, at least amongst the German "elites".
Oh yeah? Pray tell, how do we do that? And mind you, you've also got Iran in play, Egypt is doing its thing, and they would both react in their own way.
Like would you suggest NATO troops on the ground? How do you think Hamas would react to that?
What tactics has the West utilized against Russia that they have not employed against Israel?
Economic sanctions. Apply them to Israeli leadership in the military and in politics. Plus Business leaders and bankers. Prevent Israeli banking institutions "from accessing SWIFT, the international system for financial transactions, and restricting access to Western financial markets." Ban Israeli access to international goods and services import as well as export. Let's see how long their military can go without oil.
Well, I think the US public has been pretty vocal about this compared to most issues. People are really pissed at Biden. So don't change the subject.
I think it's time we start publicly shaming Israelis and Jews who don't make strong statements condemning the murder of civilians and protesting the reckless-at-best and seemingly genocidal actions of their government.
This is about Zionism. It's not about Jews. If you make it about Jews you are falling for the Zionist tactic of equating the two. Do better
Really I just meant the international community of Jewish people. Many of them have strong opinions about matters related to Israel.
As a member of the international community of Jews, I think what Israel is doing is monstrous and disgusting. But I am in no way responsible for what they do. I don’t live there, I’ve never been there, and I have zero ability to influence Israeli policy beyond expressing my disapproval, which I often do.
Stop spreading the misinformation that Israel = all Jews.
I understand your frustration at what I am saying, but I believe you have more influence over the Israeli people than I do as a non-jew. Am I wrong? I just imagine that Israeli jews would take more seriously and be more introspective after receiving critical comments from a fellow Jewish person, who presumably is more in tune with the worries and historical context of the Jewish community than a non Jewish person is.
My opinion is more easily decried as antisemitic or ignorant and waved away. Yours is not.
When Christians do horrible things in the name of god, don't you think being called out by other Christians is going to carry some more weight?
What would make you think this? Just because we happen to share an ethnicity doesn’t mean an entire nation will listen to me or give me any entitlement to tell them what to do. Nor is it my responsibility, as a Jew.
And people who make decisions based on ancient mythology aren’t exactly making rational decisions in the first place, so I don’t know why an appeal on that basis would work. I may be a Jew, but I’m also an atheist. The last thing this situation needs is more religion.
Unfortunately, there's no commonly accepted distinction between Jews who practice Judaism, Zionists, and ethnic Jews, At least not that I'm aware of. I do recognize that there is a difference, And if I were you, I would be pointing out the difference also.
I'm sorry, man.It sounds like this is rough for you to be tied to these people by the Jewish label. I hope sometime in this century. All this b******* gets sorted out For everyone's sake.
The difference between Jews and Zionists is the same as between Christians and Christo-Fascists.
Believers vs. Believers who believe they need to be in control because God picked them and all others are lesser.
Folks are welcome to believe what they want to believe, it's when they want to use that belief to restrict other people that it's a problem.
Yes there is— you just listed them. And what i find especially despicable is people like you who speak out of both sides of your mouth while disingenuously trying to appear “understanding” and civil. If you really felt bad for anyone, you wouldn’t be here making accusations and “just asking questions” in bad faith, trying to provoke an argument.
I said commonly accepted. I'm sorry, but those distinctions are lost on the general public.And what we need is the general public to put pressure on politicians. But sure, whatever, Let's get pissy and fight amongst ourselves. I'm sure that will help.
And don't compare me to that just asking questions Tucker Carlson, bullshit. I don't care where you live. I don't think it's a big ask for someone to stand up and say killing civilians is a bad thing.
It’s pretty arrogant of you to think you get to speak for the “general public”. And you weren’t asking for someone to stand up and say killing civilians is a bad thing— you have been saying that I, as a Jew, should lecture all of Israel about what they’re doing and they they should listen just because I happen to be a Jew also. Did you suddenly get struck by amnesia and forget what you’ve been saying this whole time? Because you can scroll up and review your past comments if you forgot what you said. Everyone else who’s read this far sure saw what you said.
You say you don’t want to be compared to Tucker Carlson, then I suggest you drop his bad faith, bs “debate” style.
Are you deliberately trying to use the same language as was used against Muslims 20 years ago?
No, I guess I don't get your reference, unless you are referring to 911?
If so it would be the Americans needing to condemn their government for invading Iraq, not the Muslims condemning 911.
Not exactly like every Jew is Israeli, in fact Israel is the one trying to force the narrative that they are, because it reinforces that narrative to those Jews when people actually do antisemitic shit
It's a settler recruitment strategy.
Not to mention the view that being anti-genocide is antisemitic - a deeply stupid, dishonest, antisemitic position that gives the best possible justification one could give for the extermination of the Jews.
Jewish people have nothing to do with Israel. There is no greater burden on them than us
Perfect example of the antisemitism channeled by this war...
Same kind of bullshit of asking a random Muslim on the street to denounce IS when they bombed something...
Exactly.
Is that guy part of the government?
"But if you call it a genocide you're an antisemite."
-AIPAC
If it came from an arab or muslim religious figure, western media mainstream media wouldn't shut up about it for weeks. but an Israeli figure calling for extermination of an entire ethnic group passes under their radar and keep giving moral and legal ammunition to Israel to carry on its genocide in Gaza.
Really? Because searching with the roles reversed I definitely see similar statements had been made but only see coverage by ideologically aligned sites:
https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-787452
https://www.timesofisrael.com/egyptian-minister-quotes-koran-verse-on-killing-jews/
https://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/California-Imam-calls-on-Allah-to-annihilate-Jews-500676.
https://www2.cbn.com/news/world/palestinian-authority-issues-call-murder-jews-tells-islamic-leaders-incite-violence
https://www.timesofisrael.com/kill-all-jews-urges-hamas-tv-host/
The only mainstream sources along a similar thread were within days of the Oct 7th attack:
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/
https://www.newsweek.com/hamas-terrorists-have-genocide-their-hearts-they-say-so-themselves-opinion-1834360
So it just looks more like the mainstream press isn't interested in reporting what religious zealots say outside of very narrow windows of relevance to major recent news stories (and even then rather sparingly).
That's a lot of very outdated and out of context links you put there.
Also some there interpret anti semitism very liberally.
You are so caught up in your agenda that you aren't even thinking though what you are saying.
Would it make more sense to discuss a pattern of behavior in the media by linking to multiple examples over an extended period of time or to only show examples within a narrow period of time?
In this case, people call literally tell from the URLs in the comment that your sealioning on this particular point is BS.
Except your examples are not examples of anti-Semitism. As everyone knows now Zionists call every criticism of israel anti-semitic.
Did this man say "I want to kill all the Jews" according to you?
You have a weird hangup here dude. You aren't at all engaging with my comment about media coverage, but are instead pulling a random excerpt from the opinion piece a few days after the Oct 7th attack to discuss....what?
The opinion piece doesn't even call that 'antisemitism.' You cut off the lines immediately before it, which makes no claim in line with what you allude:
The author of that opinion piece is entirely entitled to the opinion that victim blaming terrorist attacks on civilians is offensive to them, just as there's plenty of opinion pieces to the other direction that denying human rights violations is offensive to a lot of other people. That's kind of the point of opinion pieces - to express an opinion.
But the brunt of the examples I provided in the main part of my comment (the many examples of religious leaders calling for the ethnic killing of the people they don't like) were completely in line with the OP article.
The last two were simply included as examples of how little the mainstream press covers "these people call for genocide" claims from any side except when relevant to recent news - and to that point one of the only two mainstream pieces was an opinion piece.
You're basically making my central point in citing the Newsweek opinion piece's shortcomings - that contrary to the theory of the person I replied to, there's little to no coverage of religious figure calls for violence outside of limited sets of articles with clear agendas.
You pasted random Hasbara from internet that you didn't read and called criticism of israel anti-Semitic. If anyone is pushing an agenda it's you.
Not condemning Hamas equals calling for the genocide of all Jews?
Joke articles.
Citation needed, as it appears we're just making up straw men now. In this comment thread, I literally didn't even write the word 'antisemitism' outside of quoting your use of it.
Yeah, that's not true coverage of the topic... give me a break.
Did you read any of his links? Quote me the part where people say something anti-semitic.
From this link: https://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/California-Imam-calls-on-Allah-to-annihilate-Jews-500676
Yeah, nothing antisemitic here.
LOL that's what I'm talking about... I can see the reply already "that's not true anti-semitism..."
Were there people that call themselves "Jews" attacking the Al Aqsa mosque and violently shooting Muslims one year ago? Do you think he is referring to that? Or is he calling to Genocide all Jewish children there?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR-c5QsoPxI
Considering the first article is from 2017 and the second from 2014, no I don't think either are referring to the Al Aswa mosque violence in 2023.
If they were, that would be really surprising.
That was only in 2023? Strange I recall seeing it quite a few times
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=QR-c5QsoPxI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
They are turning into Nazis arent they? And i thought iron sky was far fetched. Instead, the Nazis have just infested the Jews!
Always been.
There were (and are) many Holocaust survivors which refused to go to Palestine to kill people and steal their land. And actively speak out against israel
Thanks for the new YouTube recommendation
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
And actively speak out against israel
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
It's more like people are all over the place between these extremes.
The irony is ridiculous
Their Lizard People. Iron Sky 2
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Lizard People
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Ah yes, genocidal fascism reappears. Marvellous. (Not)
People calling for genocide and murder of children are those who are far removed from humanity. They're a nasty burden that the modern society hasn't learned to deal with yet.
There no hate speech laws this breaks? He's literally calling for violence on a group of people.
According to Wikipedia. The problem, of course, is that it won't be enforced as long as hate speech is directed against specific groups of people.
A few guys saying similar things got jailed and busted as a terrorist organization in the 90s, the thing is - Israeli institutions have degraded a lot. They have bloodthirsty imbeciles at helm.
...or spoken by other specific groups of people.
He's saying the quiet part out loud...
Lmao, not where Palestinians are concerned. Welcome to Apartheid.
Haven't you heard? All Palestinians are terrorists so this is fine.
Yes, even the babies. Actually especially the babies. /s
Yeah they have a fair history becoming the thing they fought against.
If suffering was a teacher, humanity would have achieved utopia long ago.
I think we'd all just really hate school.
How do you mean?
You seem to be so enthusiastic about demonizing Jews that you even ignore that this is a story about enslaved people trying to leave.
I think people working on plantations from dawn to sunset till they can work no more would identify quite a lot with this passage.
Oh , the irony.
There can't possibly be any irony, since I've explicitly said "Jews" and not Israelis.
Your attempts to blend in with normal people are, of course, disgusting, but also as subtle as a Nigerian spy in Siberia.
Judges 19 to 21, where after the rape and death of a single person, many thousands are killed, and hundreds more are raped in response.
Really making that ICJ genocide case easy huh.
Man if every one in the world judged every American based on what one crazy preacher said we'd be in some trouble.
Well, the prime minister, the finance minister and the head of defense all have said similar things over there in Israel. At some point you have to believe that what they are saying and their actions are speaking for themselves and their words and actions are saying "no one is innocent and even if they were we are still going to kill them all so we can get the land."
I mean, it's kinda like judging America based on Pat Robertson, the Westboro Baptist Church, Steve Bannon, Steve Miller, and Trump.
Yes, we should beleive people like Trump when they say how awful they are. The fact that he was elected and is the presumptive Republican nominee says a lot about the American right, right now. But it definitely doesn't mean that Americans in general are awful people.
Are these people:
Currently in charge?
Because Ben Gvir, Smotrich, and Bibi Netanyahu are all literally in charge of the country commiting genocide right now.
What's the purpose of that "currently"? Because if you meant that what's in the past is less real, it's not. Just removed from us by one coordinate.
It means there was a majority of people who decided these people shouldn't be in charge after witnessing what they did when they were in charge?
That wasn't the case when they were in charge, obviously.
Their party is about to get shit canned, because Israel is a democracy and these people don't represent the people.
Israel is a democracy despite that almost everyone who has power in the government is a racist genocidal maniac?
There's no democracy in MENA.
I'm guessing you've never seen CPAC.
Yeah, although if the American state were sponsoring said crazy preacher it would be an issue. The Rabbi and his Yashiva are sponsored by the Israeli government as the article makes clear.
I don't know if you haven't been paying attention to Mike Johnson and some of the Republicans lately but well..
In what way aren't the crazy preachers representative of a massive segment of the population here?
I gave you the grand old party.
I never understood why some people would say it was anti semitic to criticize Israel in certain ways, like people say the BDS movement is racist, but it's exactly things such as this that made me start to see it, and now I can't unsee it. People rabidly hold Israel to a different standard and only one explanation consistently makes sense.
One Jewish nutbag bloviating his hatred into the void is asserted by some as evidence the the whole of Israel has evil, genocidal intent.
Targeted bombings of tunnels, valid military targets, with cell phone warnings, pamphleting, and roof knocking is described as indiscriminate.
Not giving foreigners the same rights as natively born or naturalized citizens is called literal "apartheid."
Israel must stop bombing immediately or America should burn our alliance and feed the Jews to Iran, only Israel though, for Hamas it's all "keep up the good work! Death to America!"
Palestinians in Gaza are natively born. They are not foreigners.
Gazans aren't foreign dumbass
Dumbass they are to Israel.
This is a Jewish Israeli extremist. Dont judge all of us based on this abhorrent example.
... who teaches at a yeshiva that gets its funding from the Israeli government.... guess he's not so extreme he can't get government funding. Embarrassing. Even in the relatively thoughtless USA we would cancel that sponsorship in a second.
Do Israeli institutions not have mechanisms to dismiss officials who vocalize rhetoric like this?
They have mechanisms to dismiss the rest
No clue. I'm just pointing out the existing association. He could be 1 in 1000 or he could be in 1 in 4.
In my experience 1 in 4
Actually those yeshivas to get funding from Israeli government are more likely to be extremist.
Israeli democracy often resembles more of a Jewish "theocracy" I say that as a former Israeli voter. There is a huge coalition of religious politicians that work together to keep money flowing to the orthodox haredi voters whonare invaluable to them.
(x)
I have taken pains to point out that Zionism does not equate Judaism. Three of the men from whom I have learned the most about this conflict are all Jewish, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein and Ilan Pappé.
It’d be like asking Hamas the same question, clearly we shouldn’t judge the Palestinian innocents on Hamas’ views, nor should we judge Israel on this guys views
I'll judge Israelis on the actions and words of their representatives and armes forces.
Doesn't seem that much different to this extremist.
Majority held views among the population are in support of Gazan genocide and withholding all food from entering Gaza. The settler society at all levels understands its interests demand genocide.
Exactly my point, this extremist does speak for the majority.
No judgement to you all from me. War is a conductive environment for extremism. War is hell, after all.
Don't worry, we're judging you (Israel) by your actions, which... checks notes... are in full alignment
He is not just an extremist but also an Idiot.
Killing everyone in Gaza is just dumb because there are also several 10.000 Israeli soldiers in Gaza.
But meh... we already learned that extremism breads brain rot. Hamas is proof of it.
Drax? Is that you?
Ok, well if that's the case what is your community going to do to ensure he does not receive support from you, and that he can not recruit from within you, and that your community does not produce more extremists like him?
Usually in this type of situation the answer is to act outraged on social media.
Not the OP, but sadly, the israeli state has a vested interest in supporting rabbis like him who act as an arm of extreme statist propaganda.
Even though the "disciples" of these kinds of rhetoric are not likely to serve in the military, they will egg on the existing population and do their spiel of making bullshit stories up.
And while I'd love to be in a position to go all "not all of us are like that", and while I'm aware there are some Israelis who fight to get food in gaza, my entire family and most of my friends and colleagues spout this kind of extreme rhetoric, and i honestly feel like I'm slowly losing my mind over it.
There is not much willing in any community, and not much hope anything will change internally for the time being.
Most of my family believes similarly to this Rabbi. I feel like if I try to defend the Palestinians or put an ounce of blame on the Israeli occupation I'll be excommunicated.
I instead try to teach the undecided, usually the ones who have been ignorant to the situation or those who haven't yet "taken a side". I grew up in an orthodox Jewish settlement on the west bank so I belibe I can speak with some amount of authority.
Your situation sounds pretty miserable and you do have my sympathy.
I'm naive to the nuance of the Israel / Gaza / extremist situation. My comment was just a tongue in cheek commentary on the nature of ideologies and extremism.
Ideologies tend to attract and / or produce nutters, provide them succour, but then disclaim their behaviours.
And more importantly, is it ok if we carpetbomb his neighbourhood?
No need to call for it, they are already doing it.
Sounds like terrorism
Sounds like genocide
straight from the book of joahua in the old testament
Here is a list of the killings in Joshua.
The Jericho Massacre
Achan and his family are stoned and burned to death
The Ai Massacre
God stops the sun so that Joshua can get his killing done in the daylight
Five kings are killed and hung on trees
Joshua utterly destroyed all that breathed as the Lord God commanded
The genocide of twenty kingdoms
The Anakim: Some more giant killing
https://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/dwb/jos.html
thanks God
To be fair to the old testament it's not factual history. Those no proof of a Unified Kingdom of Israel and no proof for any of Joshua's conquests. Even though we have evidence of much older kingdoms in the area such as Yamhad.
If anything the old testament has history reversed. In 722 BC the Assyrians destroy Israel (circa 1000 BC with capital always in Shechem). The refugees move to Judah (circa 900 BC). The Israelites took their religion and rebased it on Jerusalem AFTER Israel got sacked. This means a "Jewish" identity for Israel could not have taken off until the 600 BCs at the earliest. 4000 years of Judaism history my 🍑.
Maccabee came in the 200 BCs and forced people into what we now call Judaism. The reason why a complete Bible cannot be found from the BC era is because the Bible wasn't finished yet.
The oldest fragment of the old testament says that the mountain around Shechem is the holy place.
The Bible says that a lot of the Judahites were bad but all of the Samaritans are bad.
The book of Joshua is archeologically completely anachronistic and false in the Southern Levant.
The early Israelites have only been found to have been peacefully cohabitating with the Canaanites and Philistines in the early Iron Age after they emerged as a population.
Personally, I think like a number of the pre-Judahite stories, that this was coming from an Aegean/Anatolian sea peoples forced relocation into the Southern Levant that ends up absorbed into the Israelite history.
'Yeshua' in Greek can go as either Jesus or Jason.
The Argonauts allegedly had a prophet Mopsus that died in the desert as they traveled by foot from a conflict in North Africa (not long before one of their elite warriors was killed by a shepherd casting a stone from a sling, actually).
There's no walls at the Biblical Jericho at the time these events were supposedly taking place, but Mycenae around 1200 BCE has its walls fall down (and it seems not to have been an earthquake, which was a recent surprise).
There's no evidence of the Israelites being a bunch of tribes conquering nearby cities and certainly not several across an ancestral homeland, but the sea peoples were a confederation of different tribes conquering their various home cities (at a time of various natural disasters were conveniently undermining powerful kingdoms, which was likely a factor in why they were so successful and why this period ends up mythologized with divine interventions).
At one of those battles the sea people were described as being without foreskins. This seems to be the same one day battle against Egypt that Odysseus claimed to have fought right at after the Trojan war.
The parallels get really incredible when you dive deeper into some of them. The recent Aegean style pottery made with local clay in Tel Dan, the only apiary in the "land of milk and honey" importing bees from Anatolia and worshipping an unknown bee goddess, and the song of Deborah ('bee'), prophet and leader of the Israelites, talking about "Dan stayed on their ships" is super fucking interesting for example.
I think a lot of what we think we know about the Mediterranean at the fall of the Bronze Age is due to be turned on its head as the historians of antiquity like Herodotus, Hecateus of Adbera, Atrapanus of Alexandria, Tacitus, and Manetho end up validated with a number of things modern historians have been making fun of with an air of superiority (bizarre given the relative access to documentary and oral traditions and the relationship of that to the likely impacts of survivorship bias).
Or maybe not. There are a lot of weasel words in your write up, seems, alleged, etc, and not many mentions of hard evidence.
It's a summary of around five years of sometimes rather nuanced research.
If there's a particular area you want more details on, feel free to ask. But to actually include all the nuanced details for the summary above would take about 20 pages, and I really don't think most people here care enough to wade through all that (nor do I care to write all that out on my weekend).
If you want a third party suggesting at least part of what I wrote above with some of the cited literature, you might want to read over this: https://armstronginstitute.org/736-were-the-seafaring-denyen-the-tribe-of-dan
You need hard evidence for events that were essentially before the beginning of written history, but apparently this isn't necessary for their assertions. Weasel words, indeed.
Huh? Written history begins around 2,000 years before these events. What are you talking about?
A number of the relevant pieces of information are the details in contemporary written accounts from Egyptian or Hittite sources which range from royal records of conflicts to letters written between countries.
That's how we know for example that there was actually a single day battle between Egypt and the sea peoples with Libya which Egypt wins and takes captives from seven years before an usurper Pharoh conquered Egypt. There's literally dozens of pages written about that battle by Merneptah. Which then bears a striking resemblance to the mythical story in the Odyssey of Odysseus fighting a one day battle against Egypt where he's taken captive exactly seven years before "a certain Phrygian" shows up to try to ransom him to Libya.
We even have records from Ramses III which describe the end of the 19th dynasty around the time of this usurper as Egypt having been conquered with outside help, switching to a form of government of city state governors, and "making the gods like men." Claims that resemble the Phoenician form of city state government emerging at this time and the claims of Phoenician euhemerism "from around the time of the Trojan War" in Philio of Byblos.
Yeah, but it's pretty shit. It's far from reliable, the Bible counts as part of the historical record and we are reasonably sure there weren't really any giants.
The rest is all Biblio of Biblios, I'm now aware what me rattling off a bunch of science information must sound like to people.
I was supporting your position anyway, you massive, swinging autist.
Why is it that followers of holy books always have a section or two that should be ignored when it's convenient?
'the word of God', but you can toss out whole sections without a second thought, meanwhile, if you break what's said in the other section you're definitely evil
because religion is fake
Apostasy. The religion of Judaism abhors murder. That Rabbi should be defrocked.
Are rabbis even frocked?
degloved
defenestrated
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herem_(censure)
No it doesnt.
Very normal country.
This is what one guy said. It is not representative, as a lone data point, of all Jews, all Israelis, or the Israeli government. If you have more data points, feel free to share them, but this one Rabbi's statement doesn't prove any generalisation.
Serious question - where would we see signs of broad Israeli opposition to the genocide? I know Netanyahu is unpopular, but I don't think the genocide is a major factor in that unpopularity.
Unfortunately, I don't think you'll find that as much anymore. One of understated but equally awful side effects of Hamas' very successful pogrom is, in targeting who it did among the Israeli population, it pushed a lot of Israeli society currently in Israel hard right even beyond standard rally around the flag effects. The Israeli left and peace activist movement effectively died last year.
I don’t think we should sensationalize one rabbi talking out his ass but there’s a lot of other data points. Itamar Ben-Gvir (Minister of National Security) and Yoav Gallant (Minister of Defense) say genocidal shit all the time. They’re not random rabbis. South Africa’s case before the ICJ included a lot of direct quotes from leading government officials.
I don’t know anything about this organization — I just found this on Google — but an NGO called Law 4 Palestine apparently has a database that seems to cite sources pretty well. https://law4palestine.org/law-for-palestine-releases-database-with-500-instances-of-israeli-incitement-to-genocide-continuously-updated/
And look: I know that Hamas and probably every other Islamic fundamentalist group’s leadership has said equally awful shit (and worse shit, for that matter). Some of the Israeli quotes came at an extremely traumatic moment. But this is bigger than one rabbi. I don’t think it’s be hard to establish intent if Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir, and Gallant end up getting tried for war crimes.
Edit: I just want to add that most Israelis (and the Jewish diaspora) do not support the current government at this point. They were having mass protests before Hamas attacked.
The he said/she said is getting really old.
It takes willful ignorance at this point to not recognize that both Likud and Hamas have influential representation frothing at the mouth at the idea of ethnic cleansing of the other side.
It certainly isn't all Palestinians or Israelis, it might not even be all of Likud or Hamas.
But the fact there's agents advocating genocidal actions within the governments of each side of the conflict is pretty much indisputable at this point.
The fact a humanitarian crisis has become such a tribalistic litmus test is pretty ridiculous and gross. (And I'm referring to both 'sides' of that tribalism in case anyone thinks this is a unilateral criticism.)
Yeah because it's not like rabbis have any influence over a congregation of people or anything.
I don't think he speaks for all Jewish people or all people in Israel...as far as the government goes...he might not speak for them, but he's definitely harmonizing. As far as data points go, I submit everything that had happened since 1967, with a very specific focus on the last ~5 months.
The problem is this comment doesn't exist in a vaccuum. It's simply the latest statement along these lines.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/2/21/us-congressman-andy-ogles-stirs-outrage-with-gaza-comment-kill-them-all
https://www.dailysabah.com/world/mid-east/israeli-lawmakers-kill-all-palestinians-remarks-resurface
https://www.voanews.com/a/damascus-airstrike-said-to-kill-iranian-revolutionary-guards/7448161.html
https://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/14/mothers-of-all-palestinians-should-also-be-killed-says-israeli-politician
https://www.commondreams.org/news/israel-gaza-genocide
Sure does make me think we shouldn't have arms deals with theocracies though.
That rules out most of the Middle East, including Saudi Arabia.
While it would be nice to live in a world where strategic defense partnerships could be selected from better bedfellows, it's not like there's a plethora of good options to choose from in the area.
If it were up to me all arms sales to the Middle East would stop. I see absolutely no benefit to anyone within 1,500 miles of the Red Sea having access to so much as a single 9mm handgun cartridge.
While I agree in principle, I kind of get (especially after the invasion of Ukraine) why USINT has had a hard on for strategic opposition of Russia all these years.
I have a feeling if it was up to both of us we'd just not have arms sales or production anywhere and have those resources instead invested into research and development of things to help advance humanity. But in a world not up to either of us, I can understand hard choices even if they don't sit well with me.
Only thing this obvious fascist is missing is the Hugo Boss uni
Ah yes organized religion
Judaism in theory is not one (like there's no religious leadership, no central authority, and no clear idea who should be burned as a heretic). But in Israel they have the main rabbinate (maybe even two, I don't remember) and have built a pretty hierarchical structure, not really resembling Jewish religious organizations anywhere else.
Just because it is not the RCC doesn't mean it isn't organized. There is a spectrum between random people building ancestor shrines and the pyramid structure the Catholics have. Judaism lies much closer to organized side of the spectrum.
And I'm this particular case, with the government directly funded this shaman with tax dollars, we can be even safer to say that.
That's what I said, it doesn't. There's no hierarchy in Judaism, at all. Except for Israel, again.
Anyway, every religion gets turned in all the ways the encompassing society wants it turn. Say, speaking of "Taoism in China" is impossible, because that's a myriad of things, both in terms of the cult itself, and the structure, and whatever else.
How very biblical
It does seem old testament...
This is nothing new. Israel doing has been doing this for decades.
It's basically the same as what Hamas has been saying forever. Basically both sides want eachother wiped out.
Yikes. Not a good look at all.
🤦♀️ "Let's do what we're already doing!"
Like wtf
"They make a desert and call it peace."
Why? Was one of them prophesied to be a king someday?
Abhorrent.
Not quoting this to express my support, just reminded me of of the genocidal Psalm 137
1944 was how long ago? That's how long it took for a jewish person to sound just like a rabid Nazi.
80 years mate
They want the land. Not the people.
Do unto others I guess?
Judaism doesnt follow New Testament
The Golden Rule predates both.
Wow, Egyptians, 2000 BCE. Thats setting the ole Wayback Machine to high.
Mr. Peabody
There's a story in the Talmud about Hillel the elder, a rabbi who died in 10 CE:
Yep, it's generally a stereotypical Hassidic thing to quote Hillel at random moments
Which is why it's thankfully still not as genocidal as both its offsprings.
I mean, it's not out of character historically.
This would be international outrage if a palestinian said this about Israelis
Same thing they did to the Canaanites. They haven't changed their MO since The Bronze Age Collapse.
Which is fun because under further review it turns out that the Hebrews were Canaanites themselves. They genocided their own neighbors.
Israelites enforcing the word of EL? The Canaanite God of War? Yep. Same exact philosophy that has been handed down since The Bronze Age Collapse. Used against their cousins again.
Just accept that
you'reIsraelite "history" from Exodus on is mythology, as in the authors lied, which was common at the time, and you'll see how these ideas are exactly the same, as are the people espousing such hatred for their fellow humans.😂
"they"
totally the same people
Israelites enforcing the word of EL? The Canaanite God of War? Yep. Same exact philosophy that has been handed down since The Bronze Age Collapse. Their blood may, or may not, be different. Their ideology is exactly the same. Genocide of their cousins.
Just accept that Israelite "history" from Exodus on is mythology, as in the authors lied, which was common at the time, and you'll see how these ideas are exactly the same, as are the people espousing such hatred for their fellow humans.
I think this is basically antisemitism. It has to be pretty blatant for me to play that card, but come on man.
Anti-Semitic? Nah. The Palestinians are a semitic people.
Anti-intentional-ignorance, yeah. I don't care when your fantasy book was written, if you're going to put "holy books," aka the fictional ravings of people that wanted to control others, ahead of science and history, then I have no time for you, other than to put a bullet in your head so that you stop harming the rest of the world.
me no rikee
You are likely European by ancestry while writing that, be more self-conscious or something
So basically he said the same exact thing Hamas says about Jews?
The difference is that Israel is considered an occupying power and has responsibilities under international law as such.
"The difference" is that Israel's formal position is not the elimination of Palestinian Arabs. Zionism as we know it primary exists because of widespread genocidal attitudes towards Jews.
I'm not defending Israel's heavy hand here by any means. I am just tired of everyone on the internet feeling free to just ignore all the historical context wrapped up in this conflict.
The UN has found credible evidence to the contrary
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/6/7/un-report-finds-israeli-occupation-root-cause-of-conflict
Zionism was from the very beginning a settler colonial enterprise. Yes genocidal attitudes towards Jews may have been used to promote the idea, but the end goal was always possession of land.
https://digitalprojects.palestine-studies.org/resources/special-focus/zionist-settler-colonialism
It's worth noting that the ones who rejected that mandatory Palestine map were the Arab Palestinians.
If it's worth noting, you should cite sources.
I've come to hate people asking for sources in the interwebs. If you ask me for the sources for Gleiwitz or Mainila, or anything else, it'll be as hard to find as on this subject.
People who are ready to invest their time in writing a short comment may not be ready to do that for finding sources for you. And that's valid and doesn't mean you've won an argument or something. Arguments can't be won or lost anyway.
And people who are really ready to find sources are mostly not the good ones, it's, say, genocide denialist Turks\Azeris and the sources they link are trash or don't support what they say.
So you are making it seem that the other side has no sources when they may have and not giving sources seem worse than giving garbage sources.
And on your question - the Wikipedia article has some sources which seem fine.
For me, it's more kind of shocking that so many people feel like they can confidently comment on these events without basic knowledge of the very well known history surrounding them. Someone who has such large gaps in their knowledge probably isn't worth debating further, and simply highlighting those gaps should provide pretty good view to anyone else reading this conversation about what level they are operating on.
This is especially notable when you see accounts which literally do nothing besides comment on this conflict.
I think you are putting unneeded conditions where there should be only one - whether you want to participate for your amusement.
Arguments do not expose truth. Arguments are not won or lost. If the arguing sides are trying to impose some position, to win some fight, then the argument is garbage.
Nothing shocking here either. They do what they want with their time.
Flaky... understood.
Does that make it any less abhorrent?
And we condemn Hamas, so...
It makes sense since Israel is a theocracy
...why is the picture the backrooms?
Biden and Netanyahu: Way ahead of you, buddy!
people acting like there aren't extremists on both sides of the conflict....
Bombing women and children en masse doesn't make it a conflict, it makes it a slaughter.
They're intentionally preventing food and water from entering Gaza. It's a genocide.
it's been a conflict for 70 years.
and the palestinian government is no saint either
the losers are the both the palestinian and israeli citizens turning our back on israel doesn't help anything. weve long had two state solution policy. it's a shame that the Israeli government has long since forgotten rabin's courage and the palestinian/gazan government cares more about killing israelis than it does helping their people
Oh well in that case it's ok for Isreal to bomb women and children.
This is a whataboutism.
no where in my post did i say that....
Then what was the relevance of the sentence?
Half of the population is under 18.
Every new generation, this kind of conflict repeats - Hamas launches a more organized attack, then Israel bombs it into a warzone and redraws the borders.
Hamas, the Palestinian "government" recognized by Israel, is a hardliner terrorist group. After they were elected, Israel stopped holding elections for Palestinians... It's been decades now.
This situation is scripted.
Whataboutism
see https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/7117231
Sounds like a good idea. 🤪
Sigh. As much as I hate Zionists, I'll be the first to say this is not indicative of everyone in Israel nor should all Israelis be criticized for statements like these.
It's the same thing as if an American pastor said shit. They do it all the time and it doesn't matter (much).
Ahhh yeah the good cops can totally change the system from within!
/s
Whenever some Christians are engaging in hate, they avoid people condemning the whole religion thanks to Jesus's very anti-hate teachings. Judaism doesnt have that. All of the Old Testament's calls for violence against enemies stand without revision, and no sin is forgiven without sacrifice.
Yea, Judaism has no such thing as a deep and extensive set of rabbinical discourses that are as fundamental as the Torah. Really solid and thoughtful observation.
With like 50 pages arguing about how much a woman is worth based on the state of the hymen. No one ever likes to mention what the Talmud has to say on the subject.
Care to share with the people at home the argument about why the Talmud says you can't marry on a Friday and the counter argument and the counter counter argument?
Why? What in the world does your arbitrary cherry picked items have to do with the topic at hand? Are you trying to say that that is the entirety of talmudic discourse and that concepts of charity, stewardship, kindness, and growth are nowhere explored in the Talmud? I'm not saying there aren't many troubling aspects to Jewish liturgical Tesoro tradition. What I am saying is that they're about in par with any religion and shit like the OP posted is pretty fucking ignorant and dumb.
This is a Lemmy sir, we don't read religious books we just repeat what other people say about them
Jesus had plenty of hateful messages, they just don't get quoted as much.
Can you give examples?
Sure.
He is quite clear that no one can speak or reach the father except through him. And that he is the light and way and none other. Not exactly a message of religious tolerance.
He affirms all the ancient sexual rules of the OT and even argues that they don't go far enough. Specifically forbidding a divorced woman from marrying. Not exactly sexually open.
When dealing with other ethnic groups he is continuously in contempt of them. Racist
The idea of an eternal hell didn't exist in widely read Jewish writings, we know of only one mention in one book, and plenty of other writings that describe the afterlife much differently. Now comes Jesus who specifically states that ever lasting torment exists and he will judge who gets into heaven or the other place.
Not even the family is respected as an institution. We are told that your love for him must be so great that the love of your own family wouldnt measure up to it.
The single parable he mentions about slavery doesn't condemn slavery and in fact demands that humans act as slaves.
The doctrine the man supposedly preached was that a select few that abandoned their property, their obligations, their family, knew his secret message, and loved him would inherit the kingdom of God and everyone else would go to hell. If you want to worship slightly different, have a sex life, own something of your own, think for yourself, or are unlucky enough to be from a different ethnic group torment awaits you
By the same standard the pope is hateful. You may or may not agree with this, depending on your opinion of the pope.
Well less hateful since he seems to believe that Jews and Muslims don't go to hell since they have their own deal worked out and despite his many many flaws he isn't particularly known for racism.
Still an ass
"A huge asshole, but at least he's not racist!" -- damned by faint praise
Jesus Hates Zombies
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"That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation. Go and study it."