The first time the moderators countered his obvious dog-whistle lies I was absolutely blown away. You could have knocked me over with a feather. Then I started laughing and didn't stop.
The correction was really well done and completely natural by both moderators, I almost didn't register what happened. Love to see it.
Donald's whimpering rebuttal of "but but I saw it on TV" objectively did the most damage to his image of everything I have seen to date.
This. He sounded like a 5yo.
That's insulting to 5-year-olds. Many of them can actually complete sentences before going on to the next thought.
Especially from the guy who made the phrase “Fake news” famous.
He’s definitely sundowning.
It still blows me away that he managed to take over the term “fake news”.
It was introduced as a way to explain how social media was leading gullible people into MAGA, but he turned it into a term for persecution of MAGA by conventional media.
It was actually an incredible move. I can’t think of anything he’s spun that well since 2016.
I'm pretty sure Hitler or Mussolini popularized the term (Hitlers translation was closer to "lying press) originally to discredit journalists, socialists, scientists... Etc. Trump has been reported to have Mein Kampf on his bedside table, but I need to actually read it myself to confirm how much of his playbook comes from it. He for sure targets vulnerable, innocent groups (immigrants, women, LGBTQ, etc.). He eroded public infrastructure, attempting to privatize it where he could.
Not Mein Kampf, it was a book of translated Hitler speeches.
My favorite moment from the whole thing was when Harris offhandedly mentioned that his rallies were bad, and he spent a full minute of his rebuttal time insisting that his rallies were awesome, then started arguing with the moderators when they fact checked him. You could see that that, above everything else that went on, rankled him. It really highlighted the narcissism.
The highlight for me for the whole debate was not Trump's pet-eating outburst but the perfect setup and execution Harris did to bait him into that unhinged rant instead of talking about immigration.
She "invites" people to go to Trump rallies. She follows up the point about people leaving rallies early with a note along the lines of: you're about to watch Trump not talk about you. Sure enough, he fell into the trap, and Trump talked about what he cared about most at that moment.
It took him like 2 minutes to do everything she said, right in front of him, that he would
Go back and watch Trump. His eyeballs pop when she says attendees are leaving out of exhaustion and boredom.
Buttons pushed.
I'd say it is when he suggested migrants were eating people's pets 😅
That was all part of the same response and fact check sequence.
The thing is, he looked visibly confused. As if he truly believes that the things he sees on TV are absolute truth.
I was watching it through Dylan Burns stream on it and he said trump sounded like an angry five year old.
Edit: said not sayed, fucken Redneck accent fucken up my spelling.
Yeah this is one of those typos that you can hear ^^
What was it? “The people on TV said it!”
He sounded exactly like my grandmother with dementia the day I walked into her room to her freaking out about the postman stealing her cheerios.
You misspelled refuttal. Orange you embarrassed?
Too bad they let him continue to lie about the thing they just fact checked, let him talk beyond his allotted time, reapond when it wasn't his turn, and shut down Harris the one time she tried to respond out of turn.
The moderators crossed an extremely low bar on fact checking last night, but did everything else the same way they always have.
All his talking didn't help him at all. I don't think the Harris side cared about him self-destroying his image and giving lots for the talk shows later to make fun of.
It gives him a platform. End of story. Every single minute he talks it allows for normalization.
This works for some things, but it's like the parable of the boiled toad: you need to push on the edges of truth, not come out guns blazing with "post-birth abortions", "Immigrants eating family pets", and "Democrats wanted Roe v Wade overturned also"
It's too late for that. We deal with him or he gets back in the White House.
But to who? His cult? They are lost, stop trying to save them. B
It's complicated, since the Harris campaign wanted him to have more opportunities to ramble, interrupt and get mad. They were very much counting on him being himself and comparing that to someone who can speak in coherent sentences without getting mad.
My thoughts as well. Trump did himself no favours with undecideds and independents with his inane rambling rants. For the most part, Harris just seemed content to use her time to press him and let him make a fool out of himself, with only a couple of instances popping up when she seemed to want to interject but couldn't.
He shut her down twice. The one time was really over the line. But I loved the moderator saying there is no place in the USA that executing babies is legal. Wtf, 9 month abortions? Lol
My mom fully believes this shit for some reason. She believes mothers carry to 9 months and just abort out of inconvenience, and that doctors don't work to keep the fetus alive out of the womb if possible. She shares pictures with descriptions of the procedures with zero sources beyond Christian crisis pregnancy centers. Or just Christians.
And she wonders why I started exhibiting signs of PTSD before I was even six.
I support it. They have a job to let viewers know that the radical information is not true, and they should not take it as valid information to get worked up over.
It's the difference between Trump sounding like a maniac vs exposing a controversy. They don't need to stop him from sounding like a maniac. They just need to clarify that he is, in fact, a maniac.
In this case his extra time actually hurt him.
That really showed what a shitbag outfit CNN has become under it’s new conservative ownership group. They are a wolf in sheep’s clothing now.
“I would like to see CNN evolve back to the kind of journalism that it started with, and actually have journalists, which would be unique and refreshing,” he said. Then he suggested a model: “Fox News, in my opinion, has followed an interesting trajectory of trying to have ‘news’ news, I mean some actual journalism, embedded in a program schedule of all opinions.”
Malone’s comments didn’t resonate much beyond a couple of places: At Fox News, which responded with glee, and inside CNN, where they sounded alarm bells.
—New board member and billionaire John Malone, a legend in the cable TV business and one who has deep and longstanding ties with David Zaslav
CNN was much more honorable—the debate we had with Biden was a much more honorably run debate.”
The CNN moderators in June notably did not fact-check or question statements made by Trump or Biden during that event, as per agreed rules.
Emphasis added
I would like to see any organization actually have journalists or actually do journalism. But my definition of journalism is different from this sociopath's, like I take telling the truth as an assumption.
Al Jazeera is pretty good with international news. Be skeptical of their middle east news though.
Also Democracy Now. Amy Goodman is still out there trying to break stories.
There are only a handful of journalists left. Two that come to mind are Pam and Russ Martens of WSOP (Wall Street On Parade) who have been speaking truth to power for decades but remain obfuscated like other journalists with integrity.
Obviously these are financial journalists and we need many like them and their courage in the political and world news spheres.
They barely even fact checked him in the first place. They called him on a total of, what, three things? As opposed to the probably dozens of other complete untruths he uttered, not even just about policy and so forth but actual empirically verifiable elements of reality?
Here's just what I spotted:
Lied about not being involved with Project 2025 and not knowing what it is. We know he is acutely aware of what it is, and in fact some members of his staff were involved in its framing.
Lied about the number of immigrants coming into the country.
Further lied stating that other countries were "sending all their criminals and mental patients."
Claimed people were "aborting" babies after birth (called out by moderators).
Claimed Harris said she would ban fracking in Pennsylvania (called out by Harris).
Lied about crime rates going "through the roof" (called out by moderators).
Responded to this by claiming FBI crime stats were falsified by "leaving out problem cities."
Lied about migrants eating people's pets (called out by moderators).
Lied about inflation numbers post-pandemic.
Lied claiming that "Biden" built the Nordstream pipeline.
Distorted the truth by claiming he won more votes than any sitting president in the last election, failing to mention that Biden still got more.
There were probably others.
He also essentially admitted that his plan for the war in Ukraine was to just let Russia win. That should be pretty damn worrisome for anyone.
I wish they had pushed him harder on the simple yes or no questions.
Also, Harris missed a perfect opportunity to point out that Trump has been the only president that has advocated a gun ban. "take the guns and figure out due process later"
The yes/no about "should Ukraine win the war" he wouldn't answer anything except that he would end the war. He would just give up Ukraine to Russia to end it, though, and he didn't want to say that on TV.
He loves backstabbing allies. He's a dishonorable man.
The Kurds remember.
That would make him enemies right in the middle of his fandom.
You can't force him to change his answer. Y'all think you could fact check trump better live.
No, I meant when he was asked a yes or no question directly, multiple times, he never gave an actual answer.
Oh my bad, I agree on that point. Sort of expected it though but it would be nice to hear a simple answer here and there.
I'm sure he was completely truthful when he said he didn't read Project 2025. It would be very surprising if he read anything besides Mein Kampf.
The only way he actually read Mein Kampf is if it came in picture book format
"Everyone says it, you know Trump really is a genius, they say it. I've read all the best books: the Hungry Caterpillar, Green Eggs and Ham, Goodnight Moon. I'm the biggest read person in the country. They say this. The Giving Tree. I hated that book, communist propaganda! Kambala probably wrote it."
He read Maus but took the wrong lessons from it?
"I hate the art but I love the messaging."
I want this to exist so badly.
Mein erster Kampf
Hell, I'd be surprised if he's read more than the Berenstain Bear on audio book
The Gish gallop (/ˈɡɪʃ ˈɡæləp/) is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm an opponent by presenting an excessive number of arguments, with no regard for their accuracy or strength, with a rapidity that makes it impossible for the opponent to address them in the time available. Gish galloping prioritizes the quantity of the galloper's arguments at the expense of their quality.
Lied about Kamala being a Border Czar. She led a diplomatic initiative aimed at curbing immigration, she was never directly involved in border matters.
Biden wasn’t a sitting president though.
That's true on a technicality, but everyone knows what he meant. In the 2020 election, Biden got ~7 million more votes than Trump in addition to winning the electoral college. Trump's intent was to be intentionally misleading and to twist the qualifications to imply that he should have won last time when, in fact, he didn't.
It's a sobering detail of our situation. In 2020, Trump really did receive more votes than any candidate in any previous election. That means a ton of people showed up to vote for him in 2020 that hadn't in 2016.
He frames it weird (and it sounded weird when he said it) because otherwise it raises the obvious point that Biden also achieved that same record, plus an extra 7 million votes.
True, although population growth is a factor as well.
Like, it wouldn't be surprising to see more total votes than in 1990, just because there's a lot more people. Let alone 1890. The "most ever" has pretty declining meaning after going back just a couple of decades.
% of adult population would be more meaningful.
I agree. It’s technically true but intentionally misleading. That said, I think there are other, better examples to label as lies that don’t get into this gray area.
Lied about how much aid the US is giving Ukraine and how others are not. Lied about how the aid is given (it's in US made products not in Cash, the money stays in the US).
Wait what? Why would Biden build the nordstream?
Go ask whatever parasite is running the show in Trump's brain - it doesn't make any sense and I remember being very confused by that claim in real time
If you don’t want to be fact checked, maybe don’t repeatedly insist that Florida’s abortion ballot measure will legalize killing newborns.
Already legal in many states, happens every day. Don’t you watch tv?
They should legalize abortion of 78-years old babies imo
No mic should ever be placed near this man again.
Pence: Please do not place me near this man again.
The fly: do it. I'm hungry
Conservatives are mad that "they only fact checked Trump", and yeah, there's some truth to that...
But they let him tell so many little lies unchallenged. They only fact checked him on the egregious stuff like "Haitians eat pets" and "post-birth abortions".
Harris may have said some half-truths or omitted context for a few things, but she never told a single non-truth comparable to the things Trump got fact checked for.
The worst actual post-debate criticism I've heard for Harris was that she continues to say that Trump will enact Project 2025 and a federal abortion ban as president, despite his statements denying support for these things. The thing is, Trump is a huge fucking liar, and a Republican, so yeah, she's right to keep saying what he will absolutely do as president, despite his lies to the contrary.
Harris may have said some half-truths or omitted context for a few things, but she never told a single non-truth comparable to the things Trump got fact checked for.
The problem with Harris is that she's a professional politician who knows how to skirt the line. So you can challenge her on a point and she can clarify it in her favor and then PoliticoFactCheck has to do a 500 word article getting to the nut of the issue (and they'll get called liars for their biased interpretation too).
But "Black people in Ohio are eating all your dogs" is much more straightforward and easier to debunk. Same with "infanticide is legal in California".
Trump is a huge fucking liar, and a Republican
He's ForwardsFromGrandma tier racist. Even as lying goes, it comes across as weird and vulgar.
Didn't he also get like an extra 5-7 minutes of talk time? He would "answer" a question, Kamala would giver her rebuttal, then he would be like "wait a minute I need to respond to that" and they would let him.
Yeah, definitely a double standard on mic control. Any time he opened his mouth they turned his mic on, she tried once and they did a hard pass. Hell, even while they refuted his dog eating claims his mic was on talking over the moderator.
And that's because all of the media loves Trump. They have a bias, sure, but they know the crazy shit he says sells views/headlines and that's their business, informing the public is a byproduct.
I did think it was weird that the one time Harris wanted extra time to rebut, they denied her. At the same time, I don't think Trump really helped himself with all of his extra talking. Never interrupt your opponent when he is making a mistake, and all that
That reminds me of the Obama/Romney debate
Her misstep is that she should have just started talking anyway. As silly as it seems there are people that would respect that more than her keeping quiet while a man talks - in some weird republican domination fantasy. Those that would be upset aren't her base anyway.
They did that on purpose. Harris originally suggested open mics but Trump pushed back. I'm guessing she told the moderators not to worry too much about letting him get in an unsanctioned response, knowing that if he's at the point where he's barging in and ignoring decorum, he's likely going to self-immolate on camera.
She wasn't wrong. She was concise enough to get almost every question answered, and baited Trump into humiliating himself. Some of the most damaging things he said were said during time he wasn't supposed to be speaking.
It's the perfect trap. Giving him extra time sabotages him, but he can't complain that getting extra time to speak was a trap, because, as you suggest, at face value, it was unfair to Harris.
It also potentially saved the debate from an early conclusion. Trump has walked out of interviews and debates in the past when they forced him to stop talking or move on.
They really played him well.
we know definitively that trump is tied to project 2025, so yeah she's going to keep saying that.
a federal abortion ban as president, despite his statements denying support for these things
They straight up asked him the question, and he refused to answer it. So, she didn't tell a "half truth" - he literally refused to say he would veto a national ban when directly given the opportunity to do so.
As for project 2025, it's his playbook. Whether or not he will specifically call it that, doesn't change the fact it's how he wants to dismantle the federal government.
the guy fights dirty. fact checking prevents him from wasting his opponent's time. if an opponent had to counter all of his wacko statements they would never make progress. it would be some one-sided steamroller garbage. I hope they normalize the fact checking thing.
I think evidence points to the fact that while project 2025 may not be authored by Trump, it is probably something that would influence a trump presidency. kamala harris' statements about it were correct.
Yeah trump didn't make that shit up...but he's a useful idiot who absolutely can be manipulated into letting it happen
A bunch of the stuff he said cant entirely be disproven. Even the eating pets thing wasnt proof, it was the word of a local government official who republicans are likely not to trust.
I don't know there was more they can besides appeals to authority.
You're falling for their propaganda.
Republicans started this racist rumor about Haitians in Ohio.
The media talks to city officials and determines that these claims are unfounded.
Republicans claim that the city's response wasn't an outright denial, and suggest that this lends some amount of legitimacy that it might be happening.
But that's bullshit. Government PR (and pretty much every journalist) knows to never make statements of negative fact, because you cannot logically prove a negative. It's the same reason newspapers use "allegedly" to describe accused criminals: because future events could hypothetically change the truthfulness of the statement.
And that's all these claims will ever be: hypothetical. When all you have is a hypothesis, it is irresponsible to run away with it as if it were evidence of anything.
"Can't be disproven" is the default state of most social issues. That alone is equivalent to having zero evidence, and so repeating the completely baseless claims that Haitians might be eating pets, while technically true in a hypothetical sense, could be said about literally any group you want, because there will exist the same amount of evidence of it being true (none).
One can only conclude that anyone peddling this narrative solely wishes to spread racist ideas about Haitians.
I'm pointing out why its hard to disprove the stuff trump says, not defending them. You can't say dogs and cats aren't being eaten because you can't prove that, you can say that a reputable source said its not happening.
The debate is about the candidates, if they want to lie and make fools out of themselves they can. I do like that they were able to fact check the Springfield stuff because it sounds like the rumors are causing racism and violence. Hopefully the fact check helped a bit.
I'm willing to change my opinion though. What were some other things they could have fact checked but didnt?
It's not the job of the person disproving it to prove anything. It's the job of the person making the assertion and "Well, someone said it on TV!" isn't proof.
The problem is that no one fact checks him in his personal life, so he thinks it’s just a thing his political opponents do. But the reality is that no one thinks it’s worth the time to correct his wrong way of thinking, esp. when he can be a useful idiot and use his wrong ideas to distract from the issues at hand
It drives me crazy knowing that anyone takes this absolute clown seriously.
It drives me crazy that no one asks him normal ass questions. Like: can you elaborate? Can you point at it on a map? Do you know what that word means?
I bet you money he couldn't point out where Haiti is on an unlabeled map of the Caribbean.
Repeat the lies early and often and the general population will eat it up.
Carlin's quotes about average American voter still rings true today.
This was one reason I appreciated Harris repeating "Project 2025" several times. There's likely voters that didn't know about it, and it's possible her saying it enough got it in their heads to look it up. Can you tell I'm trying to be optimistic?
What’s even sadder is that he would 100% be president right now if he didn’t constantly stick his foot in his own mouth.
Everything about Trump makes him one of the most awful human beings alive, and yet he would be the leader of the free world if he wasn’t also incredibly thin-skinned & stupid.
He was gifted a nonpartisan crisis in an election year. He is so dimwitted and inept that he turned it into a wedge issue. He couldn't handle epidemiologists getting attention he wanted.
Should have been locked up ages ago, but seeing him this humiliated almost makes up for it.
Oh no. No, no we have a long way to go before anything makes up for it.
“The press is so dishonest in this country, it’s amazing,” Trump said. “Now, I didn’t mind because frankly I was pretty sure that’s what they would do. CNN was much more honorable—the debate we had with Biden was a much more honorably run debate.”
I felt better about the one where I creamed the senile old guy. The one where a younger, Black, WOMAN was awful.
He also said that the full context of his quotes on Charlottesville make it clear that what he’d said was “absolutely perfect.”
It was a perfect phone call!
Nevertheless, Trump claimed the evening had gone well for him. “I’ve been told I’m a good debater,” he said. “I think it was one of my better debates. Maybe my best debate.”
You're right, you've never done better. Way to go, shithead.
He's a Master Debater
He is steering and planting the thoughts of his believers.
"Maybe my best debate."
Some person: He must have done really well if he thinks about it that way.
“I’ve been told I’m a good debater,” he said. “I think it was one of my better debates. Maybe my best debate.”
Hmm, this is suspiciously good grammar.
Eat a dick, cunt.
well, cunts tend to do just that
Vagina dentata that dick, cunt?
Shut HIM down. Lying sack of shit fully believes his own shit. That is strongly indicative of mental deviance enough to disqualify any politician
Ah the ol' George Costanza method.
"It's not a lie... If you believe it."
I demand the shitgibbon be shutdown. Did you hear me? I demanded it!
I declare it!
Don't worry Mr. Orange, I called emergency services for you.
Well I demand trump be shut down. For being too old and senile! Bye dementia don
Didn't he say he won the debate? What's he mad about?
He's such a whiner.
I'm not sure there were opportunities to fact check harris and the one point where trump said it was disproven the "fact check" basically takes trump at his word that trump wasnt talking about the nazis.
Which is a black mark on snopes for allowing an unprovable statement as a fact by a guy known to lie and walk back his missteps.
That's something a dictator would do. 🤔
That vile bitch! “You were talking about the economy!” Let him say what the fuck he was talking about. Take off the baby gloves.
Nope. Won’t do it. He wins and your ratings go up.
No matter how tempting, if this asshole wins I will not click a single post or video passed around by Fox News.
i would really like to see someone successfully debate MAGA republicans that trump is unfit for office by reason of either, delusion, or insanity. That or concede that they are either, fascist, or equally deluded and insane.
The line of reasoning is very simple. It piggybacks off of the J6 report, which lines up the argument that there is no world in which trump knew that what he was doing on J6 was legal. The only presented alternative is that the entirety of the federal government is corrupt, and somehow only trump knows this, which is obviously indefensible. So it must follow that trump is either delusional, and unfit for office, or genuinely insane, and also unfit for office.
Therefore, if you don't think that trump is insane, and unfit for office, you are either, fascist, or insane and equally delusional. There is no alternative reality, because any alternative reality hinges completely on the concept of the entire federal government being entirely corrupt. Which is unfalsifiable and arguably, not possible.
If you support trump in 2024, you are one of three things, stupid, delusional, or fascist. There is no other option. This is categorically provable.
if conservatives will concede this point, i will agree with them on the take of biden being unfit for office, however they will literally never cede this, as they are fucking delusional.
👶
Crying 45 keeps on crying. The orange shitstain should shove off to Moscow and take all the MAGATs with him.
::: spoiler Daily Beast - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for Daily Beast:
The first time the moderators countered his obvious dog-whistle lies I was absolutely blown away. You could have knocked me over with a feather. Then I started laughing and didn't stop.
The correction was really well done and completely natural by both moderators, I almost didn't register what happened. Love to see it.
Donald's whimpering rebuttal of "but but I saw it on TV" objectively did the most damage to his image of everything I have seen to date.
This. He sounded like a 5yo.
That's insulting to 5-year-olds. Many of them can actually complete sentences before going on to the next thought.
Especially from the guy who made the phrase “Fake news” famous.
He’s definitely sundowning.
It still blows me away that he managed to take over the term “fake news”.
It was introduced as a way to explain how social media was leading gullible people into MAGA, but he turned it into a term for persecution of MAGA by conventional media.
It was actually an incredible move. I can’t think of anything he’s spun that well since 2016.
I'm pretty sure Hitler or Mussolini popularized the term (Hitlers translation was closer to "lying press) originally to discredit journalists, socialists, scientists... Etc. Trump has been reported to have Mein Kampf on his bedside table, but I need to actually read it myself to confirm how much of his playbook comes from it. He for sure targets vulnerable, innocent groups (immigrants, women, LGBTQ, etc.). He eroded public infrastructure, attempting to privatize it where he could.
Not Mein Kampf, it was a book of translated Hitler speeches.
My favorite moment from the whole thing was when Harris offhandedly mentioned that his rallies were bad, and he spent a full minute of his rebuttal time insisting that his rallies were awesome, then started arguing with the moderators when they fact checked him. You could see that that, above everything else that went on, rankled him. It really highlighted the narcissism.
The highlight for me for the whole debate was not Trump's pet-eating outburst but the perfect setup and execution Harris did to bait him into that unhinged rant instead of talking about immigration.
She "invites" people to go to Trump rallies. She follows up the point about people leaving rallies early with a note along the lines of: you're about to watch Trump not talk about you. Sure enough, he fell into the trap, and Trump talked about what he cared about most at that moment.
It took him like 2 minutes to do everything she said, right in front of him, that he would
Go back and watch Trump. His eyeballs pop when she says attendees are leaving out of exhaustion and boredom.
Buttons pushed.
I'd say it is when he suggested migrants were eating people's pets 😅
That was all part of the same response and fact check sequence.
The thing is, he looked visibly confused. As if he truly believes that the things he sees on TV are absolute truth.
I was watching it through Dylan Burns stream on it and he said trump sounded like an angry five year old.
Edit: said not sayed, fucken Redneck accent fucken up my spelling.
Yeah this is one of those typos that you can hear ^^
What was it? “The people on TV said it!”
He sounded exactly like my grandmother with dementia the day I walked into her room to her freaking out about the postman stealing her cheerios.
You misspelled refuttal. Orange you embarrassed?
Too bad they let him continue to lie about the thing they just fact checked, let him talk beyond his allotted time, reapond when it wasn't his turn, and shut down Harris the one time she tried to respond out of turn.
The moderators crossed an extremely low bar on fact checking last night, but did everything else the same way they always have.
All his talking didn't help him at all. I don't think the Harris side cared about him self-destroying his image and giving lots for the talk shows later to make fun of.
It gives him a platform. End of story. Every single minute he talks it allows for normalization.
This works for some things, but it's like the parable of the boiled toad: you need to push on the edges of truth, not come out guns blazing with "post-birth abortions", "Immigrants eating family pets", and "Democrats wanted Roe v Wade overturned also"
It's too late for that. We deal with him or he gets back in the White House.
But to who? His cult? They are lost, stop trying to save them. B
It's complicated, since the Harris campaign wanted him to have more opportunities to ramble, interrupt and get mad. They were very much counting on him being himself and comparing that to someone who can speak in coherent sentences without getting mad.
A well executed Batman Gambit in real life.
My thoughts as well. Trump did himself no favours with undecideds and independents with his inane rambling rants. For the most part, Harris just seemed content to use her time to press him and let him make a fool out of himself, with only a couple of instances popping up when she seemed to want to interject but couldn't.
He shut her down twice. The one time was really over the line. But I loved the moderator saying there is no place in the USA that executing babies is legal. Wtf, 9 month abortions? Lol
My mom fully believes this shit for some reason. She believes mothers carry to 9 months and just abort out of inconvenience, and that doctors don't work to keep the fetus alive out of the womb if possible. She shares pictures with descriptions of the procedures with zero sources beyond Christian crisis pregnancy centers. Or just Christians.
And she wonders why I started exhibiting signs of PTSD before I was even six.
I support it. They have a job to let viewers know that the radical information is not true, and they should not take it as valid information to get worked up over.
It's the difference between Trump sounding like a maniac vs exposing a controversy. They don't need to stop him from sounding like a maniac. They just need to clarify that he is, in fact, a maniac.
In this case his extra time actually hurt him.
That really showed what a shitbag outfit CNN has become under it’s new conservative ownership group. They are a wolf in sheep’s clothing now.
“I would like to see CNN evolve back to the kind of journalism that it started with, and actually have journalists, which would be unique and refreshing,” he said. Then he suggested a model: “Fox News, in my opinion, has followed an interesting trajectory of trying to have ‘news’ news, I mean some actual journalism, embedded in a program schedule of all opinions.”
Malone’s comments didn’t resonate much beyond a couple of places: At Fox News, which responded with glee, and inside CNN, where they sounded alarm bells.
—New board member and billionaire John Malone, a legend in the cable TV business and one who has deep and longstanding ties with David Zaslav
Emphasis added
I would like to see any organization actually have journalists or actually do journalism. But my definition of journalism is different from this sociopath's, like I take telling the truth as an assumption.
Al Jazeera is pretty good with international news. Be skeptical of their middle east news though.
Also Democracy Now. Amy Goodman is still out there trying to break stories.
There are only a handful of journalists left. Two that come to mind are Pam and Russ Martens of WSOP (Wall Street On Parade) who have been speaking truth to power for decades but remain obfuscated like other journalists with integrity.
Obviously these are financial journalists and we need many like them and their courage in the political and world news spheres.
They are out there, but they are the very few.
Yeah the baby executioner bit was gold.
THEY'RE EATING THE DOGS
Link?
They barely even fact checked him in the first place. They called him on a total of, what, three things? As opposed to the probably dozens of other complete untruths he uttered, not even just about policy and so forth but actual empirically verifiable elements of reality?
Here's just what I spotted:
There were probably others.
He also essentially admitted that his plan for the war in Ukraine was to just let Russia win. That should be pretty damn worrisome for anyone.
I wish they had pushed him harder on the simple yes or no questions.
Also, Harris missed a perfect opportunity to point out that Trump has been the only president that has advocated a gun ban. "take the guns and figure out due process later"
The yes/no about "should Ukraine win the war" he wouldn't answer anything except that he would end the war. He would just give up Ukraine to Russia to end it, though, and he didn't want to say that on TV.
He loves backstabbing allies. He's a dishonorable man.
The Kurds remember.
That would make him enemies right in the middle of his fandom.
You can't force him to change his answer. Y'all think you could fact check trump better live.
No, I meant when he was asked a yes or no question directly, multiple times, he never gave an actual answer.
Oh my bad, I agree on that point. Sort of expected it though but it would be nice to hear a simple answer here and there.
I'm sure he was completely truthful when he said he didn't read Project 2025. It would be very surprising if he read anything besides Mein Kampf.
The only way he actually read Mein Kampf is if it came in picture book format
"Everyone says it, you know Trump really is a genius, they say it. I've read all the best books: the Hungry Caterpillar, Green Eggs and Ham, Goodnight Moon. I'm the biggest read person in the country. They say this. The Giving Tree. I hated that book, communist propaganda! Kambala probably wrote it."
He read Maus but took the wrong lessons from it?
"I hate the art but I love the messaging."
I want this to exist so badly.
Mein erster Kampf
Hell, I'd be surprised if he's read more than the Berenstain Bear on audio book
I learned that what he does actually has a special name. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
The Gish gallop (/ˈɡɪʃ ˈɡæləp/) is a rhetorical technique in which a person in a debate attempts to overwhelm an opponent by presenting an excessive number of arguments, with no regard for their accuracy or strength, with a rapidity that makes it impossible for the opponent to address them in the time available. Gish galloping prioritizes the quantity of the galloper's arguments at the expense of their quality.
Lied about Kamala being a Border Czar. She led a diplomatic initiative aimed at curbing immigration, she was never directly involved in border matters.
Biden wasn’t a sitting president though.
That's true on a technicality, but everyone knows what he meant. In the 2020 election, Biden got ~7 million more votes than Trump in addition to winning the electoral college. Trump's intent was to be intentionally misleading and to twist the qualifications to imply that he should have won last time when, in fact, he didn't.
It's a sobering detail of our situation. In 2020, Trump really did receive more votes than any candidate in any previous election. That means a ton of people showed up to vote for him in 2020 that hadn't in 2016.
He frames it weird (and it sounded weird when he said it) because otherwise it raises the obvious point that Biden also achieved that same record, plus an extra 7 million votes.
True, although population growth is a factor as well.
Like, it wouldn't be surprising to see more total votes than in 1990, just because there's a lot more people. Let alone 1890. The "most ever" has pretty declining meaning after going back just a couple of decades.
% of adult population would be more meaningful.
I agree. It’s technically true but intentionally misleading. That said, I think there are other, better examples to label as lies that don’t get into this gray area.
Lied about how much aid the US is giving Ukraine and how others are not. Lied about how the aid is given (it's in US made products not in Cash, the money stays in the US).
Wait what? Why would Biden build the nordstream?
Go ask whatever parasite is running the show in Trump's brain - it doesn't make any sense and I remember being very confused by that claim in real time
If you don’t want to be fact checked, maybe don’t repeatedly insist that Florida’s abortion ballot measure will legalize killing newborns.
Already legal in many states, happens every day. Don’t you watch tv?
They should legalize abortion of 78-years old babies imo
No mic should ever be placed near this man again.
Pence: Please do not place me near this man again.
The fly: do it. I'm hungry
Conservatives are mad that "they only fact checked Trump", and yeah, there's some truth to that...
But they let him tell so many little lies unchallenged. They only fact checked him on the egregious stuff like "Haitians eat pets" and "post-birth abortions".
Harris may have said some half-truths or omitted context for a few things, but she never told a single non-truth comparable to the things Trump got fact checked for.
The worst actual post-debate criticism I've heard for Harris was that she continues to say that Trump will enact Project 2025 and a federal abortion ban as president, despite his statements denying support for these things. The thing is, Trump is a huge fucking liar, and a Republican, so yeah, she's right to keep saying what he will absolutely do as president, despite his lies to the contrary.
The problem with Harris is that she's a professional politician who knows how to skirt the line. So you can challenge her on a point and she can clarify it in her favor and then PoliticoFactCheck has to do a 500 word article getting to the nut of the issue (and they'll get called liars for their biased interpretation too).
But "Black people in Ohio are eating all your dogs" is much more straightforward and easier to debunk. Same with "infanticide is legal in California".
He's ForwardsFromGrandma tier racist. Even as lying goes, it comes across as weird and vulgar.
Didn't he also get like an extra 5-7 minutes of talk time? He would "answer" a question, Kamala would giver her rebuttal, then he would be like "wait a minute I need to respond to that" and they would let him.
Yeah, definitely a double standard on mic control. Any time he opened his mouth they turned his mic on, she tried once and they did a hard pass. Hell, even while they refuted his dog eating claims his mic was on talking over the moderator.
And that's because all of the media loves Trump. They have a bias, sure, but they know the crazy shit he says sells views/headlines and that's their business, informing the public is a byproduct.
I did think it was weird that the one time Harris wanted extra time to rebut, they denied her. At the same time, I don't think Trump really helped himself with all of his extra talking. Never interrupt your opponent when he is making a mistake, and all that
That reminds me of the Obama/Romney debate
Her misstep is that she should have just started talking anyway. As silly as it seems there are people that would respect that more than her keeping quiet while a man talks - in some weird republican domination fantasy. Those that would be upset aren't her base anyway.
They did that on purpose. Harris originally suggested open mics but Trump pushed back. I'm guessing she told the moderators not to worry too much about letting him get in an unsanctioned response, knowing that if he's at the point where he's barging in and ignoring decorum, he's likely going to self-immolate on camera.
She wasn't wrong. She was concise enough to get almost every question answered, and baited Trump into humiliating himself. Some of the most damaging things he said were said during time he wasn't supposed to be speaking.
It's the perfect trap. Giving him extra time sabotages him, but he can't complain that getting extra time to speak was a trap, because, as you suggest, at face value, it was unfair to Harris.
It also potentially saved the debate from an early conclusion. Trump has walked out of interviews and debates in the past when they forced him to stop talking or move on.
They really played him well.
we know definitively that trump is tied to project 2025, so yeah she's going to keep saying that.
They straight up asked him the question, and he refused to answer it. So, she didn't tell a "half truth" - he literally refused to say he would veto a national ban when directly given the opportunity to do so.
As for project 2025, it's his playbook. Whether or not he will specifically call it that, doesn't change the fact it's how he wants to dismantle the federal government.
the guy fights dirty. fact checking prevents him from wasting his opponent's time. if an opponent had to counter all of his wacko statements they would never make progress. it would be some one-sided steamroller garbage. I hope they normalize the fact checking thing.
I think evidence points to the fact that while project 2025 may not be authored by Trump, it is probably something that would influence a trump presidency. kamala harris' statements about it were correct.
Yeah trump didn't make that shit up...but he's a useful idiot who absolutely can be manipulated into letting it happen
A bunch of the stuff he said cant entirely be disproven. Even the eating pets thing wasnt proof, it was the word of a local government official who republicans are likely not to trust.
I don't know there was more they can besides appeals to authority.
You're falling for their propaganda.
Republicans started this racist rumor about Haitians in Ohio.
The media talks to city officials and determines that these claims are unfounded.
Republicans claim that the city's response wasn't an outright denial, and suggest that this lends some amount of legitimacy that it might be happening.
But that's bullshit. Government PR (and pretty much every journalist) knows to never make statements of negative fact, because you cannot logically prove a negative. It's the same reason newspapers use "allegedly" to describe accused criminals: because future events could hypothetically change the truthfulness of the statement.
And that's all these claims will ever be: hypothetical. When all you have is a hypothesis, it is irresponsible to run away with it as if it were evidence of anything.
"Can't be disproven" is the default state of most social issues. That alone is equivalent to having zero evidence, and so repeating the completely baseless claims that Haitians might be eating pets, while technically true in a hypothetical sense, could be said about literally any group you want, because there will exist the same amount of evidence of it being true (none).
One can only conclude that anyone peddling this narrative solely wishes to spread racist ideas about Haitians.
I'm pointing out why its hard to disprove the stuff trump says, not defending them. You can't say dogs and cats aren't being eaten because you can't prove that, you can say that a reputable source said its not happening.
The debate is about the candidates, if they want to lie and make fools out of themselves they can. I do like that they were able to fact check the Springfield stuff because it sounds like the rumors are causing racism and violence. Hopefully the fact check helped a bit.
I'm willing to change my opinion though. What were some other things they could have fact checked but didnt?
It's not the job of the person disproving it to prove anything. It's the job of the person making the assertion and "Well, someone said it on TV!" isn't proof.
The problem is that no one fact checks him in his personal life, so he thinks it’s just a thing his political opponents do. But the reality is that no one thinks it’s worth the time to correct his wrong way of thinking, esp. when he can be a useful idiot and use his wrong ideas to distract from the issues at hand
It drives me crazy knowing that anyone takes this absolute clown seriously.
It drives me crazy that no one asks him normal ass questions. Like: can you elaborate? Can you point at it on a map? Do you know what that word means?
I bet you money he couldn't point out where Haiti is on an unlabeled map of the Caribbean.
Repeat the lies early and often and the general population will eat it up.
Carlin's quotes about average American voter still rings true today.
This was one reason I appreciated Harris repeating "Project 2025" several times. There's likely voters that didn't know about it, and it's possible her saying it enough got it in their heads to look it up. Can you tell I'm trying to be optimistic?
What’s even sadder is that he would 100% be president right now if he didn’t constantly stick his foot in his own mouth.
Everything about Trump makes him one of the most awful human beings alive, and yet he would be the leader of the free world if he wasn’t also incredibly thin-skinned & stupid.
He was gifted a nonpartisan crisis in an election year. He is so dimwitted and inept that he turned it into a wedge issue. He couldn't handle epidemiologists getting attention he wanted.
Should have been locked up ages ago, but seeing him this humiliated almost makes up for it.
Oh no. No, no we have a long way to go before anything makes up for it.
I felt better about the one where I creamed the senile old guy. The one where a younger, Black, WOMAN was awful.
It was a perfect phone call!
You're right, you've never done better. Way to go, shithead.
He's a Master Debater
He is steering and planting the thoughts of his believers.
Some person: He must have done really well if he thinks about it that way.
Hmm, this is suspiciously good grammar.
Eat a dick, cunt.
well, cunts tend to do just that
Vagina dentata that dick, cunt?
Shut HIM down. Lying sack of shit fully believes his own shit. That is strongly indicative of mental deviance enough to disqualify any politician
Ah the ol' George Costanza method.
"It's not a lie... If you believe it."
I demand the shitgibbon be shutdown. Did you hear me? I demanded it!
I declare it!
Don't worry Mr. Orange, I called emergency services for you.
Well I demand trump be shut down. For being too old and senile! Bye dementia don
Didn't he say he won the debate? What's he mad about?
He's such a whiner.
I'm not sure there were opportunities to fact check harris and the one point where trump said it was disproven the "fact check" basically takes trump at his word that trump wasnt talking about the nazis.
Which is a black mark on snopes for allowing an unprovable statement as a fact by a guy known to lie and walk back his missteps.
That's something a dictator would do. 🤔
That vile bitch! “You were talking about the economy!” Let him say what the fuck he was talking about. Take off the baby gloves.
Nope. Won’t do it. He wins and your ratings go up.
No matter how tempting, if this asshole wins I will not click a single post or video passed around by Fox News.
i would really like to see someone successfully debate MAGA republicans that trump is unfit for office by reason of either, delusion, or insanity. That or concede that they are either, fascist, or equally deluded and insane.
The line of reasoning is very simple. It piggybacks off of the J6 report, which lines up the argument that there is no world in which trump knew that what he was doing on J6 was legal. The only presented alternative is that the entirety of the federal government is corrupt, and somehow only trump knows this, which is obviously indefensible. So it must follow that trump is either delusional, and unfit for office, or genuinely insane, and also unfit for office.
Therefore, if you don't think that trump is insane, and unfit for office, you are either, fascist, or insane and equally delusional. There is no alternative reality, because any alternative reality hinges completely on the concept of the entire federal government being entirely corrupt. Which is unfalsifiable and arguably, not possible.
If you support trump in 2024, you are one of three things, stupid, delusional, or fascist. There is no other option. This is categorically provable.
if conservatives will concede this point, i will agree with them on the take of biden being unfit for office, however they will literally never cede this, as they are fucking delusional.
👶
Crying 45 keeps on crying. The orange shitstain should shove off to Moscow and take all the MAGATs with him.
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