[US] Texas AG Threatens Seattle Hospital With Jail Unless It Provides Trans Patient Data
Excerpts:
"Seattle responded to the request by filing a lawsuit in Travis County, stating they cannot comply because Texas has no jurisdiction in Washington State, and no care was provided by the hospital in Texas. They also point out that the Dormant Commerce Clause, protected by the United States Constitution, “protects the right to interstate travel, including to obtain healthcare services.” By targeting out-of-state hospitals for enforcement of laws that only apply within the jurisdiction of Texas, they “discriminate against healthcare based on an interstate element,” violating constitutional protections, according to the legal filing. Lastly, Seattle Children’s Hospital cannot comply due to a shield law passed by Washington State. This law bars the hospital from providing any patient data and from responding to subpoenas pursuant to “protected healthcare services” obtained within the jurisdiction of Washington. Protected healthcare services include abortion, reproductive care, and gender-affirming care."
"This case promises to be extraordinarily complex. Seattle Children’s Hospital is challenging the jurisdiction of the demands directly in a Texas state court. Regardless of what the local court decides, the claims are likely to go to the Texas Supreme Court. Given that the claims also have a time limit on them and that appeals in Texas automatically favor the attorney general due to an automatic lifting of stays in the state, Seattle Children’s Hospital workers and providers for trans patients from Texas could be under legal jeopardy. Ultimately, the case presents questions of conflicting state laws and regulation of conduct across state lines, and the implications of those laws could be dire for abortion and trans care nationwide."
Thank you Seattle Children's Hospital for standing up to that bullshit.
Also thank you to Washington state for passing the shield law to make this happen.
"Go fuck yourself, Texas." - Sincerely, Washington state residents
I feel that even without the shield law, this would be a violation of HIPAA
HIPAA has exceptions, which include orders to disclosed PHI to the court.
... What Ken Paxton is attempting isn't legal though. Texas has no jurisdiction in this sham and following the order would violate Washington state law.
It doesn't sound like the douchebag has a court order, though.
Also sounds like he’s going on a treasure hunt, rather than ask for specific info about specific people
“Go fuck yourself, Texas.” -Sincerely, the rest of the United States of America
To be fair, they are legally required to. Complying with Texas' request would violate Washington law.
It really shouldn't be complex at all. It should be extremely simple: Is Seattle within the jurisdiction of the Texas AG or not?
I guess the issue is that they have to convince a Texas court of that, instead of some kind of reasonable judge.
Until it gets kicked up to federal court, at which point a judge will laugh Texas out of the courtroom. This is a huge waste of time that will achieve nothing.
"This is a huge waste of time that will achieve nothing."
That's the GOPs entire platform.
Obfuscate, obstruct, oppress.
Sadly true.
I hate how true this is
Texas is under the 5th circuit.
Judges there are often just as insane as their lower court brethren. Fully by design.
It's achieves political objectives for the Texas AG.
And then it goes to the Supreme Court, where a majority of the justices have already been bought and paid for well in advance
I doubt the Supreme Court would go for this since it would also mean that the Washington AG could demand something from a Texas hospital. Or any state from any other state. It's because they're bought and paid for that they wouldn't do something that would jeopardize their own paymasters' positions like that.
Yup. Liberal states are tired of this shit and will use the precedent
Bah. That's the one thing that always seems to never happen. 'Civilized' places always seem to take the high road and never hit back.
They're crazy, but even they won't fuck with interstate commerce.
The confederate states split from the union because they wanted the federal government to force free states to return escaped slaves, effectively enforcing the laws of one state on the residents of another. We are reenacting the events that led to the first Civil War.
This is spot on. This hadn't even occurred to me.
the fact of trans people being involved has the effect of making anything complicated, apparently. It's just sooooo complicated to checks notes allow us the same rights and protections as anyone else. But oh hey someone's building a database of trans people while passing a bunch of anti-trans legislation? Hold on now it's complicated he may have a point.
And, of course, it's only trans people for now. If they can build a database of people getting gender-affirming care, they can build a database of people getting any other sort of medical care. For example, care for HIV or sickle cell anemia or Tay Sachs. And then there's the ability to make a database of women getting legal abortions, certain forms of birth control or IVF treatments. Awfully convenient way to keep track of 'problem' members of society, isn't it?
More reasons to never, ever fucking step foot in the fucking shithole that is Texas.
Drive around it if you fucking have to.
Seriously! Apparently they try to claim ownership of you even after you leave now.
As a Washingtonian, don't fuck with Seattle Children's Hospital, you piece of shit.
As a Texan, can confirm that Ken Paxton is a piece of shit.
I wish he would roll Abbot off a cliff and jump down after him.
I once stood within 3 feet of Greg Abbott. Every single day of my life, I regret not punching him straight in the nose. It wouldn’t have changed anything, but he most certainly deserved it then, and double deserves it now.
Take comfort in one thing. He will eventually have to face himself and the life he built.
If y'all could get rid if him, that would be great.
We recently tried, and the whole thing played out like a corruption carnival. An astounding number of “liberals” in the Texas legislature suddenly switched sides on the biggest smoking gun issue they could have impeached him with (that he had illegally given information to Nate Paul to influence an investigation). Turn them upside down, and watch the money fall out of their pockets, I say.
For those who want to see what I’m talking about, look at how many democrats voted to acquit on article 4 as compared to every other article:
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/09/16/ken-paxton-impeachment-vote/
We just had the Dallas mayor switch from Democrat to Republican directly after his election too.
All the conservatives in state gov and the a-holes who enable them are POS's too.
It only takes one hero to make him gone forever.
If you’re implying violence, I can nearly guarantee that it would make him a martyr for the cause. The religious right love to see their leaders on crosses down here.
The absolute best hope for Texas is for liberal candidates to unite around issues that moderate rural Texans can get behind. When democrats in the federal government get our candidates to do things like make strong anti-gun statements, it only ends up making it impossible to win here. We have to focus on getting power before we make strong statements about using power in ways that offend rural Texans.
I've heard that line of thinking my entire life as things have gotten worse and worse and fascism and Christian conservative bullshit has taken a stronger and more vicious grip, it's time for a violent revolution.
I think you’re not understanding that I’m only talking about Texas here. Violent revolution is all well and good if you can win. Progressives are outnumbered and outgunned in this state.
If there were a lot more of us and we had it in the bag, sure, what the hell, let’s bring change now. But history is written by the victors, and no assassination looks justified when you lose. As it stands right now, progressives would lose a violent fight in Texas.
They (gop) really want a civil war.
they do realize that if they start it and we win, we're gonna have to finish the job for good this time, right? we aren't gonna make the "ending reconstruction early" mistake twice.
Sherman should have never stopped.
He should definitely have continued into the sea, and burned that, too.
When it comes to Texas, he went in the wrong direction.
I hope you're right, but I worry that the majority of Americans will want to forgive and move on.
Ban all confederate and nazi symbols and treat anyone using them as enemy combatants, dissidents, whatever. I don't like operating in absolutes but they've shown time and time again not doing so only allows them to push everything further right into christofascist extremism.
Just let them secede. They don’t really want a fair democracy anyway, so good riddance. America will be better off without them.
Even if they won their precious civil war, in their brave new world of Jesus Trumpmerica, states still aren't going to let other states tell them what to do.
The only world in which Texas' AG has this sort of power is a world where a country that includes the Pacific Northwest is called Texas.
At this point so do I. These monsters fill me with rage on a daily basis. Let's fucking do it already, there's way more liberals than vile conservatives. I'm ready to pop a few for the betterment of our country.
Who will rid us of this meddlesome priest?
OK, that's driving me nuts - what's that line from?
Paraphrased from an alleged quote by Henry II about Thomas Beckett from a millennia ago. I think it was turbulent instead of meddlesome, but you get the drift.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will\_no\_one\_rid\_me\_of\_this\_turbulent\_priest%3F
Henry II of England.
Four knights traveled to kill the priest.
Shouldn't he be in prison for when he tried to murder that poor pregnant woman a couple weeks ago?
And nothing of this is actually about trans youth. They really don't give a shit, they know this won't work and just do this anyway to rule the crazies to vote whilst also distracting everyone from them stealing said crazies dry
Why was the lawsuit filed in Texas and not in Washington State? The hospital is based in Seattle, the people coming for care received that care in Seattle, ... Surely Washington state courts should have the final say.
Because Washington State has no jurisdiction over Texas. The vice versa is the whole point of this suit.
because they haven't rigged Washington yet
But I thought Texas was all about "States rights to decide for themselves!"
Republicans: "States need to decide for themselves!"
Blue states: "Okay. We decide to protect LGBTQ people. And abortion rights. And prosecute people who tried to overturn our elections."
Republicans: "NOT LIKE THAT!!!"
This is states rights exactly as the South viewed Northern states not returning their slaves.
Seattle PD should demand the Texas AG come to their station to answer harassment complaints.
Seattle PD will tear gas their own citizens. Can't imagine what they'd do to someone from outside the state
They actually hate the people in the city more than anyone from out of state, a lot of Seattle PD don't even live in Seattle proper. If Ken Paxton came to say hello they would probably welcome him with a BBQ.
I haven't been in dispatch for a while, but isn't Seattle one of the cities that prohibits officers from living in their own jurisdiction?
Would that not be the place of the FBI?
the Interstate Communications Act, codified at 18 U.S.C. § 875. This law makes it a federal crime to transmit any communication in interstate or foreign commerce containing a threat to kidnap or injure the person of another.
Not a lawyer but there may be gas in that tank.
Does it? It seems pretty clear to me that the state of Texas does not have any authority over a children's hospital over 1000 miles outside of its jurisdiction. What exactly is complex about this?
It's going to be complex because the Texas AG has already made their dumb decision, and now the hospital is suing the state of Texas in Texas.
It'll be complex because the fascist Texas courts are involved.
I would be surprised if this could lose, even in Texas. The court will have to confront the double standard of Texas laws applying to other states, but other states laws not applying in Texas. Setting the precedent that states must comply with medical laws from other states would be a major win for Texans, which is why they can't let it happen.
I'm sure they'll find a way to conclude Texas State Is Best State
This might be a first pass where they intend to make the case go away under Texas jurisdiction if they can first and if they can't, then they might just say "well you don't have jurisdiction here anyways" and take it to federal court.
If you can arrest an entire hospital can you arrest an entire state government?
-my mom, multiple occasions
Can confirm. Many of us are quite familiar with your mom, multiple occasions.
Can they also try to undermine the federal HIPAA law at the same time?
Human trafficking is no big deal, don't see why someone as really and annoying as HIPAA would get in Texas way
Don't see how. HIPAA has clear and wide exceptions to allow sharing for court orders and "as required by law."
“With limited exceptions, HIPAA’s privacy rules preempt any contrary requirement of state law unless the state law is more stringent than the federal rules.” In re Collins, 286 S.W.3d 911, 917 (Tex. 2009) (citing 45 C.F.R. § 160.203).
Whose law?
He was born in 1962 and worked two years as "business consultant" and eleven years as lawyer for corporations. In his 61 years of life he has worked at most thirteen of them. The rest of the time has been bouncing around fake government part time jobs. He has zero experience with law enforcement or the justice system in general.
As long as we allow the talentless hacks of the world to rule us the world that they want will remain. Go ask your local elected officials if they can change a tire and how was work today.
What does this have to do with anything? I get that you’re talking about relating to the common experience, but that doesn’t have anything to with being able to govern. Don’t know if you’re American, but here we had the Tea Party at one time (the precursor of MAGA, in a way), so basically your MTG and Boebert types. These types of people can relate to the common experience quite well, but that doesn’t give them with any sense on how to effectively be part of legislature, so their default is being asinine attention seekers. There are plenty of people who have common roots who are just as terrible in their thinking as any elite. What matters I think is how well someone can empathize and think beyond party lines because at the end of it that’s what’s required to get things done.
It matters because not only relatability it matters because they haven't worked and they haven't developed any skillset.
Sarah Palin: journalist degree 5 years out of her entire life as a sportscaster.
Jan Brewer: radiology certificate she didn't use, homemaker
Ken Paxton: 3 years as a corporate lawyer for JC Penny and a corporate law firm for 2
Since you asked about the Tea Party I mentioned a few. None of these people spent 30 years adding productive value to the world. They did some work and drifted up, and they rule us. Having zero clue how the systems that keep us alive operate.
I am sorry, but some journalists are the best people you’ll ever meet, ditto for lawyers. You can get a really great sense of systems level thinking as both a journalist and lawyer, less so as a homemaker. Conversely, some of the most ardent assholes are store clerks and plumbers. Let’s not make unnecessary stereotypes, there’s enough of that already. Assholes come in all flavors, and thinking just because someone did a 9-5 doesn’t make them an asshole is a mistake.
It isn't that I don't think those are real jobs or that people who work trades have no assholes. It is the duration. Really I want you to think about this. These three big political leaders worked white-collar jobs for under half a decade. Paxton is 61. He has spent under 1/13 of his life working.
Ah okay, fair! I guess I read incorrectly. I also don’t think you mean that’s the only important criterion for measuring someone’s ability to effectively serve in government. I read things a little literally, that’s my problem ^^
My thoughts go out to the patients of Seattle Children's Hospital. What a shitty situation and what a shitty person.
Republican sues to see kids genitals.
They're still obsessed with that Cuties movie, Facebook pushes me exclusively right wing content and I've seen two "parody" videos in the past week (one from Babylon Bee) that display the movie front and center.
Cause, yknow, """LiBrUlZ"""
What's the cuties movie
Never stop overreaching. Assholes.
Who exactly is he planning to put in jail? Sounds like workers in seattle. But really... which one? I honestly don't even know why they bothered to respond to this political stunt.
According to the article title they're going to put the hospital itself in jail. They’ll call in construction equipment and dig the hospital up out of the ground and transport it to a large custom made jail cell.
I have dealt with Ken a few times now. He is as big a douchebag as he is a dipshit.
Sounds like a tale. We would love to hear it.
He just took part in a few meetings I led or was part of. All interactions with him before, during and after said meetings were unpleasant. He also said some seriously dumb shit. You know the type that pretends to be knowledgeable by asking or stating things with great authority, but what they say or ask is either not remotely close to on-topic, or shows a complete lack of knowledge or comprehension of the topic? He was that guy.
Does Texas believe we don't have guns?
Just because we don't parade around with it or make it our identity.
There's way more people on the left than on the right, the only way to save this country at this point is for some of these people to start disappearing, or another full on civil war. The bullshit has to end, I'm tired of every day being more hate fueled evil from these fucking troglodytes.
The big problem with a Second Civil War is that it won't be North vs South. It wouldn't even be Red States vs Blue States. It would be Red Counties vs Blue Counties.
I live in NY - a deep blue state. I even live in a blue area of the state. If I drive less than 30 minutes from my house, though, I'd end up in an area so red that I might as well be in the deep south.
If there was an active Civil War, people in these red counties would travel to the blue counties to launch attacks (and vice versa). There would be no real "front line." The entire country would be a front line.
I mean maybe. I have a hard time envisioning what a modern U.S. civil war would look like. What would be the organizations coordinating each side, and what would the chain of command look like? Who would be funding each side, and what would the supply chains look like? What would the actual U.S. military, pentagon, and DoD do?
Even the most red counties have something like 20% blue voters. I imagine voter demographics were comparable during the first Civil War, yet state governments still federated. Confederate states weren't able to get many volunteers, so they brutally enforced conscription.
My best guess is that it would be less open warfare and more terrorist attacks. For example, suppose NYC has its annual Pride Parade. Some right-wingers would travel in from a red county and "join" the parade. At a certain point, they'd set off some incendiary device to disrupt the proceedings before retreating back to MAGA-land.
These attacks wouldn't need a lot of ammunition or all that much coordination (when compared with a military). MAGA sheriffs could abuse their authority to protect MAGA terrorists from being arrested. (Leaking information to them. "Arresting" them first and refusing to turn them over to state/federal officials. Etc.)
With enough of these attacks, you could have a "war" without any military on either side.
Another full on civil war? I was with you until this point.
I don't thing this is true. If you label Democrat voters as "left" and Republican voters as "right," then there is usually only around a 5% difference in the popular vote during presidential elections.
If you label "progressives" as "left," and MAGA Republicans as "right," I think the right actually has a big numbers advantage, judging by how mainstream it seems to be (FOX News vs MSNBC?). I don't watch MSNBC, so I'm not actually sure if it's really progressive, but what I've seen from FOX is pretty far right.
Going by the media probably isn't a good barometer either of how the country leans, as most/all media outlets are owned by corporations and conservative-leaning investment-class folks who have no interest in left-leaning content. Even something like MSNBC will only go so far to the left, more like center-left and corporate-friendly.
I suspect most people are probably somewhere in the middle or left-leaning, not in total agreement with either party, but generally supportive of policies typically pushed by Democrats that help the broadest numbers of people, many are probably just politically agnostic and don't care to even think about politics that much. However, Democrats suck at messaging and at actually getting their policies enacted, either through ineptitude, naivete, or by design, and the demographic groups they go after are also the least dependable when it comes to voting. So we're left with Republicans usually getting their stuff pushed through because they have no shame and are willing to do questionable things in the pursuit of power.
IDK. Most people I personally know are right-leaning (unfortunately). Either for religious reasons, bigotry, or from drinking the "free-market" kool-aid. They definitely have a different outlook on things. They highly value the nuclear family, hierarchies, retribution, people getting what they "deserve," etc. They think these things are what's best for everybody. A lot of these people don't really follow politics closely, they just think "killing babies" is evil (meaning abortion), the Democrats let crime run rampant, taxes hinder progress and the economy, men kissing is gross and unnatural, the gays, media, and trans' are grooming children, etc.
The left doesn't have a meaningful presence in the US.
funniest thing I've seen on here all day. You think Dems are left or something? The parties are on the same side, ignore their "good cop bad cop" routine, they're there to benefit capital. Not us.
If you don't see the difference between Democrats and Republicans, you're not enlightened, you're blind.
The differences do tend to stop juuust at the part where monetary interests of their funders begin.
Aside from that, very different parties.
the difference is that when Ds have power they vountarily let Rs call the shots, like they did back in the Obama years when they had a supermajority and decided to let Rs dictate healthcare reform anyway. pay attention kid, they make different noises but they heel to the same masters. you're picking between the fascist party and the collaborator party.
But the Republicans are the ones who put in the time and effort while the left is smoking doobies, playing their bongos, and masturbating.
#¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It takes more than having a majority.
‐‐------‐
edit: The comment above this is literally hinting at violence.
Organizing around issues and engaging in direct action as well as political action is a good first step before we start plotting how to "disappear" people and wage war.
Yeah, it's just billionaire funding, not gumption.
Left is king of grassroots movements that go nowhere because they can't get funded while the right has daddy koch and murdock making it rain all the way down to altright and neonazi youtubers.
But call me a hippie conspiracy theorist and move on with your day, because you're obviously not too bright.
Ah the ad hominem attack, the bread and butter of people who have a half-formed argument. The signal of a weak argument dressed in forceful garb.
Ah the fallacy fallacy, the bread and butter of people who are incapable of making any argument to support their beliefs, leading one to believe they can't logically explain their position because they didn't logically arrive at it.
Calling out the ad hominem and dismissing it is all well and good, but they had other actual arguments in their post as well. Using the ad hominem at the end as an excuse to run away, claim victory, and commit some ad hominem of your own is just pathetic. If you're going to call out fallacies I expect you to be better than that.
You expect me to be better than that?
All you did up above was exactly what you accused me of doing. I pointed out a fallacy (what were the other arguments exactly? Koch/Nazi? Yeah I didn't mention them because the fallacy was the strongest part of their comment) and you created a false situation (that I "ran away" from something or other) and called that an ad hominem. Objectively incorrect.
Maybe a primer on Aristotelian logic might help you out... Unless of course you'd rather continue to dribble urine down your pant leg and present it proudly as a comment worth reading.
All you had was a long winded ad hominem.
If you had any actual points I missed please point them out.
If you're going to spend 2 days coming up with a response you're going to have to do better than that. You've once again provided nothing of value to the discussion, you've just flailed around trying to insult me and even failed at that.
This. I live in a "liberal" place and people look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them what the GOP is up to in the South. Sometimes they even laugh. Libs think we're as ridiculous and safe to disregard as the MAGAs do. A genocide is coming and libs have their heads in the sand about it. Voting will not save us.
As a straight, white man, I don't sweat it personally. I'll be the last one thrown into a camp.
But the people who are more at risk need to get practical with their planning. Community organizing is a great place to start. And I'm not taking violence off the table if it's in self-defense. But fantasizing online about taking up arms against the christo-fascists while skipping the planning stage and training is just going to get a lot of femboys raped and killed.
If a group of queer folks organized in my home state, that would help the GOP make their lists. If we got violent in self defense, they would kill and jail us. I used to be more of an activist, but it’s fucking impossible to get a job without scrubbing every trace of your transition from the internet.
Then scrub your fucking transition. I've done a decent job of scrambling my online identity so that it appears more like noise than signal. I get junkmail addressed to burner jokenames. And I'm a straight, white male. I just like my privacy.
Nothing is going to be handed to you. Keep a low profile and organize among people you trust. This isn't a fucking game. They want to kill you (probably rape you first), and you need to avoid that.
Do you do any community organizing yourself or do you just lecture queer folks on how to do it on the internet? I know “nothing is going to be handed to” me, I’m a trans person in a state where I don’t legally exist.
Currently, I bankroll and organize a group of ESL teachers to teach English and the basics of the USCIS citizenship test to immigrants. Is that community organizing?
I've done other work around labor and anti-war over the years.
Fetish stuff isn't my bag, but I know a bunch of repressed Republican guys who can't wait to get their big, meaty paws on a few femboys.
What a disgusting hateful piece of shit you are
And yet, I'm encouraging people to organize for self-defense.
#🤔
Sometimes strangers have your best interests in mind more than you do.
The rape and femboy fixation is fucking weird bro. And trans people aren’t femboys….
Ken Corruption can bite my shiny metal ass.
Suck a trans dick, Texas.
It appears the egos are also bigger in Texas.
This will never happen. A hospital in a jail? A Republican would never improve healthcare in the prison system.
Threatening a fucking children's hospital.
🖕Paxton
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=8-cFtSPIF4Q
They would have to build a huge jail cell that can fit an entire hospital, and then move the whole hospital to Texas to send it to jail! /s
I'm lost, did they repeal HIPAA? Can I freely distribute PHI now?
Fuckin bastards
https://twitter.com/OfficialPandR/status/1732329035458363646?t=fuXftD5cJVw5kIhARQCKkw