Putin says past U.S. elections were rigged
yahoo.com
(Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin, running for a new six-year term in an election that his opponents say is a parody of democracy, said on Tuesday that past U.S. elections had been rigged by postal voting.
"In the United States, previous elections were falsified through postal voting ... they bought ballots for $10, filled them out, and threw them into mailboxes without any supervision from observers, and that's it," Putin said, without providing evidence.
And watch MAGA eat this shit up.
Why would putin lie about such a thing? I'm going to blindly believe him since it confirms my existing beliefs.
I mean, he does know a thing or two about rigged elections.
I don't know, technically killing your opponents isn't really rigging the election.
Rigging an election is something subtle, and Putin doesn't really do subtle. They don't even bother to make their murders look like accidents anymore.
MAGA and tankies. I'd say strange bedfellows, but honestly, they're not that different beyond what shade of red they prefer to be painted.
CCP Red or Kremlin Rouge
I prefer them in Ukrainian Missile Crimson
Cosplay communists.
No one who's an actual communist would support Yeltsin and the Oligarchs' friend Putin.
You're discounting the many actual communists that are also actual idiots.
Idiots who truly believe in communism, but also think that the fascist Russian government and the equally repressive Chinese one are that.
Is the tanky in the room with us right now?
Considering we're on Lemmy? In all likelihood, yes.
Well, I gotta say that you're the first person I've encountered that didn't immediately feel shame for randomly bringing up a totally irrelevant political faction after that question. I suppose the next question is, what do you consider a tanky? Anyone left of democrats? Or do you have a more specific definition in mind?
Edit: downvote me all you want, but this is a legitimate question. I'm a type of anarchist that advocates for mutual aid, industrial unionism, and a complete decentralization of power. I've been called a tanky because I support tenant unions.
I’m literally standing in the position you described and no one has ever called me a tankie, if you think China and the USSR were/are positive forces for common people, want to accelerate the collapse of the US, and/or have Anakin Skywalker tendencies (“then they should be made to”) you’re a tankie. If not you most likely aren’t a tankie
Don't bother. Tankies and their apologists don't argue in good faith.
Lmao, so you're calling me a tanky now, because I dared to ask a relevant question about your opinion?
Sorry for not falling for the "I don't know what a tankie even is here on the Fediverse, but I'm also 100% sure that they aren't a problem and you're exaggerating, pwease spoon-feed me what it means"
So you're just going to ignore the weaponization of the word across the political spectrum to the point where it's actually a pointless accusation?
If you think I was JAQing, I'll dispell that right now by giving the brief history for you and others. The origin of the term Tanky is from British marxists who used it as a term to seperate themselves from other British marxists that supported the brutal crushing of a worker revolt in Hungary, and has since turned into a term (by, for, and directed at) leftists that unequivocally support totalitarianism coming from a leftist perspective. Some leftists have also expanded that meaning to be people that identify with Marxist-Leninism. Others still use it to degrade people that want a scientific analysis of the successes and failures of other socialist projects. The alt-right uses it to disparage anyone with leftist sympathies. Liberals picked it up and use it to disparage people left of liberals.
Sorry for trying to have a common understanding I guess.
Yes, we're going to ignore it, tankie apologist. Because it doesn't exist. We know what we're talking about when we use the word.
Don't want to be called a tankie? Well, don't be one. It's that simple.
Common language is essential to understanding for a conversation to move forward. Case in point, I want to know what the USSR did well and I want to know what their failures were, so we can make an attempt at a better socialist experiment and prevent a Stalin from cropping up. An important part of that is seeing past the decades of propaganda and loaded language in the coverage of Western media. Seeking that kind of knowledge is known as scientific socialism. More than a few people call that "tanky", despite not fitting the definition of "unequivocally supports totalitarianism".
Do you consider Michael Parenti a tanky?
Never heard of him so I couldn’t say one way or the other
Fair enough I suppose. He's a historian and political activist, and one of the most prominently published marxists in the later half of the 20th century. He wrote classics like Democracy for the Few, Black Shirts and Reds, A People's History of Ancient Rome, Against Empire, To Kill a Nation, and many more. He was one of the faces of protest against the Vietnam War, and broke off his friendship with Sanders because Bernie supported the bombing of Yugoslavia.
I just realized I have one of his books in my audible library, I’d counter recommend The Philosophy of Social Ecology by Murray Bookchin and The Dawn of Everything by David Graeber and David Wengrow, based on the ideas you described two comments ago I think you’d get a lot out of both
I'll have to check them out, honest to goodness I love expanding my understanding of political philosophy.
How does he view something like China or Stalin?
He hasn't written or given many speeches about those topics from what I've seen, so I couldn't say for certain.
OK, too bad. They'd be quite telling
Aren't you tired of conversations like this? It doesn't matter what label any of us use to describe our political views. We don't have the power to implement them. Those that do don't give a fuck what we think. We're all just yelling at the perceived other while we watch things deteriorate.
Actually, I am. I'm sick of purity tests, infighting, and a disorganized left. That doesn't mean that I don't have any power. I have local power; we all do. I have tactical agreement with Democrats for a progressive future, that doesn't make me a Democrat.
I can influence local politics to have a progressive local government. With enough people doing this in their local government, we influence regions and states to be more progressive and push the country forward to a more equitable and just society. My weapon of choice is organizing a union at my work. Once we win, I'm going to organize my apartment complex. Once we win, I'm going to organize my broader community.
No alliance is possible with cosplay communists defending genocide. It's not about purity.
This 100%. The Russian propaganda to right wing talking heads pipeline is just so painfully obvious.
Elections have been rigged for a long, long time. Gerrymandering is absolutely insane. Cities with meandering sections cut off. Disadvantaged suburbs slammed into afluent areas across town to dilute the votes.
But not rigged in the way Putin and the Republicans claim. Rigged in ways that help them.
Just like all the claims the GOP makes now. If they claim we're doing something it's because they're doing it.
Not. To say that there's not Democratic gerrymandering as well, but when 80% of it leans red that 20% blue is more of a defensive posture than anything.
You could also have any political opponents thrown in jail or wait for them to fall out of a window. You don't need to tamper with the system that way.
That sounds more Russia's cup of tea
Rigged overlaps too much with the votes being fake. I think unjust and inequitable are better terms.
"In the United States, previous elections were falsified through postal voting ... they bought ballots for $10, filled them out, and threw them into mailboxes without any supervision from observers, and that's it,"
Problem - That's not the way vote by mail works.
You register to vote and place a signature on file.
You get your ballot in the mail and vote.
You put the ballot in the mailing envelope and sign the back of the envelope.
When the ballot is returned, they compare the signature on the envelope with the signature on file, if it matches, the ballot is set aside for counting.
If there's a PROBLEM:
A) Missing signature
B) Signature doesn't match
C) Ballot damaged or unreadable
D) Ballot already recorded as present
The ballot gets returned to the voter for correction, assuming there's enough time for it to be corrected.
What Putin describes wouldn't work, because the fake ballots either wouldn't have a signature, wouldn't have a valid signature, or wouldn't correspond to a registered voter.
Won't matter, he is speaking directly to MAGAs, and they already believe that this is the truth
You know how the Nigerian prince scams intentionally use terrible English to filter out the stupid ones?
Half the people you come across are below average. Technology has made it exceptionally effective to target the dumb and vulnerable.
Plus no one is allowed to supervise your ballot entries.
The supervision is the signature comparison, just like in person voting where you'd go in, sign the register, and they'd compare that signature to the one on file.
"filled them out, and threw them into mailboxes without any supervision from observers" Where does that suggest it is the signature involved? The signature is compared before Voting when Voting in person and after the office receives it when Voting by Mail. It makes no sense that lil' dictator pootie meant the signature in his statement.
Valid ballots have signatures matching the registered voter casting the ballot.
In Putin's scenario, there are no signatures, the ballots are not associated with registered voters, and as such would be rejected at the polling location.
That is not involved in the supervision of filling them out nor posting them. Both those things happen before or after, not during.
Nobody supervises the filling out of ballots, that's an entirely private matter.
The only supervision that happens is the comparing of signatures and that happens both at in person and vote by mail voting.
Which is indeed what I stated from the beginning. Well done catching up.
Bingo! Thank you for taking the time to write that up.
Just like Trump lies, Putin requires that there be no evidence to support his claims. Imagine if Trump actually tried to prove his claims with evidence... it would fail. Even if one ended up true that would be worse as then people would expect him to prove things with evidence in the future.
I fail to see why it would not work though? Instead of paying 10$ for an empty ballot from a registered voter you pay 10$ for an empty ballot from a registered voter and and their signed envelope?
Like I am not saying this happened, because 10$ ballot sales would probably have made the news around the election, I doubt 10$ buys silence. But like I fail to see how this is impossible?
You can't get that done in enough bulk to sway the election without getting caught.
Of course, that was my point with 10$ doesn’t buy silence. Top comment simply seemed to imply that buying blank mail-in ballots is impossible which for sure doesn’t seem to be. I could even see some nut at least trying to buying say 5-10, but ironically I think a Trump supporter is more likely to try to pull this.
Obtaining blank ballots isn't the trick, it's obtaining blank ballots attached to valid, registered voters with a signature on file and matching the signature.
You'd have to do that by the thousands to flip an election and it would only take one person going "I already voted? What do you mean I already voted?" to rumble it.
Even if we just counted ballots with no verification, which we don't, you'd end up with overcounts which we know did not happen. "Hey, this county only has 5,000 registered voters, how did we get 30,000 ballots?"
The point is you offer someone who registered for mail in to simply sell you their ballot along with a signed envelope. I would vager doing this for a few votes would be fairly easy. Certainly plenty of poor voters would easily sell a vote. Idk about 10, but for 20-50 bucks? For sure. I would imagine someone selling a vote would be less likely to come forward in some respect too, so if you target the right people, at some minor scale you would even get away with it no problem.
Yes this is obviously not happening, not at scale anyway, and certainly not enough to flip the election. But the idea that this is particularly hard in itself, let alone impossible, is absurd.
Oh, yeah, small scale voting fraud has always been a thing.
When we first set up vote by mail 23 years ago, Republican operatives got the bright idea to set up fake ballot drop off locations. The idea was go to Democratic heavy areas, collect the ballots, then just throw them away.
They were arrested. LOL.
Last election cycle there were multiple reports of people doing double voting for family members, they also got caught.
So when small scale stuff like this gets exposed and prosecuted, the idea that fraud on a scale big enough to turn an election would go un-noticed is just laughable.
A lie spreads worldwide before the truth contradicting it can be typed, unfortunately.
Ah yes, a Putin, the bastion of honesty and truth.
Well, this one is a confession from him
Pot calling Kettle black, but he ain't even wrong.
Not even getting into the Brooks Brothers Riots or Operation Eagle Eye or the straight explicit rigging of Jim Crow, the modern political class fully endorses rigging elections
Putin knows the US elections can be rigged because he's had his hands on the levers of power. But he's hardly unique in that regard. Certainly, not given how we've eviscerated the Voting Rights Act over the last twenty years.
Yes he IS wrong, what the fuck???
The brooks brothers riots had nothing to do with mail in voting, neither did any of the other examples you gave. If you’re going to say he’s right you need to qualify that since he specifically stated postal voting as the medium for rigging.
They very explicitly stopped a district from counting mailed in absentee ballots.
Right so why doesn't he provide proof then? He's absolutely motivated to provide it if he has it so the fact that he doesn't have it basically proves he just making stuff up.
I cited multiple examples with ample proof behind them.
Are you denying the Brooks Brothers Riot and Operation Eagle Eye happened? Or are you just upset that Putin isn't enumerating them from his bully pulpit?
Lol see, this dude had facts to back up his claim but because what he said was something people dont want to hear he gets downvoted to zero. I notice that a lot on here. It's part of the sewer that leaked over from Reddit.
Or maybe they simply worded their comment poorly. Yeah we have had elections stolen before but Putin is NOT right in stating that it was by way of mail in voting. Absolute bullshit on that.
Pretty gross how it took so long for you to admit this. Especially since this point is the entire essence of the article.
If you agree that American elections have previously been stolen then why are you disagreeing so emotionally with the post? If you admit that US democracy is a sham then why are you yelling at Putin rather than yelling at your own country's lack of human rights?
Whoa there buddy. It ain't a sham. Not yet anyways.
So weird that Trump and Putin have the exact same opinions. Do you think Trump is controlling Putin?
I wish.
President for life speaks about elections being a bad thing.
https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/505807-vladimir-putin-becomes-russias-president-for-life/
Putin dying will be a holiday.
I mean he should know since he was one of the people paying to influence the election.
Say it with me kids, Projection.
No, just casually driving another stake into the split of western societies.
phew I thought Russian elections were rigged too, glad to hear that is not the case, what a real relief
"by me lelelelelelelel" - Putin prolly
And he wouldn't lie would he. Internationally known as being a reasonable person that he is.
God, what a stupid article, why the hell was this even reported? Oh never mind it's Yahoo news, that's why
Rhetoric of this sort just promotes distrust in election systems, which of course prompts demagogues like Trump to promise voters they can fix it if they gain power. The fun thing here is that the right here needs you to believe things that aren't true in order to justify them doing a coup, the stupid thing is that stupid people take this kind of talk seriously.
But seriously, American voting is relatively secure- it's just that where lawmakers don't want voters deciding the 'wrong' way they've gerrymandered them into districts to prevent them doing it, and they've done things to strip voters of their voting rights and to suppress voting and to make it inconvenient or difficult to vote. This has been a bipartisan thing in the past, but today the GOP are the chief offenders.
Also, Putin's Russia is in the stage of democracy where elections are an exercise in flaunting the death of democracy itself, and nobody should ever take his talk about elections as being in good faith, ever
There's plenty of injustice in our voting system but it's all out in the open. Seriously, why go through the tremendous amount of risk and effort needed to fake votes when there are plenty of ways to sway the election in broad daylight?
Protecting bitch, Putin rigs Russian elections and tried to rig ours again but failed. Fuck him
Projecting?
Who cares what that failed czar pussy says kek
Once again proving the old adage that every accusation from the fascists is a confession, in Russia too.
Even the one that trump won?
Especially the one Trump 'won'.
Rigged primarily by the electoral college by making some people's votes worth more than others.
I love the logic pivot on people who in the 90s thought russia was just straight up evil are now looking at them as the bastion of conservative ideals...
Go move to Russia boys, oh you don't want to? Why not they apparently have it all figured out.
Because he has the receipt 😂
Hey Putin, we're all saving up for the gigantic party we're gonna throw when you blow your (meager collection of) irradiated brains out all over your disheveled office.
Also the table you use for meetings is SMALL!
Source: Trust me bro Trump.
I mean
The Bush family rigged W's election against AI Gore. Why did that get swept under the rug?
If by rigged you mean they stole it in broad daylight and got SCOTUS to aid in that then yeah. We haven't forgotten.
This post is disinformation
He didn't say that?
How so?
It lies on you to verify your claim is factual
He should know.
$10 a ballot sounds steep. I wonder if they offered a Costco sized box for cheaper? Maybe people should look for ballots off a knock-off site.
I saw an empty slot at my Costco where the Kirkland ballots were supposed to be
I had to double take to make sure it wasn't Jokes and Humor but actually World News
Interesting.
Seems like they're going to be shooting for an off election cycle coup, since their last one failed and its not quite time for the next window of opportunity.
The supreme court taking up Trumps case the most significant case in the history of the United States. It will decide if our constitution has any real meaning (in some ways, it determines the tests the very legitimacy of constitutionalism as a system). The language of the constitution, and the interpretation of this amendment is very cut and dry. No one can reasonably argue it wasn't designed, and intended to prevent Trump or Trump-like candidates. It was an insurrection against the United States of America. He not only partook in it, he led it, supported it.
So this may be a signal that Putin thinks the Supreme Court will rule against Trump. Go ahead and start seeding the doubt around the next election cycle now.
It may also be a sign for something far more nefarious, that perhaps rather than allowing a ruling to happen, Trump goes for a coup-in-name-only, makes the claim that the election was stolen, and that he is 'President-in-Abstentia' sitting in Moscow. Then gets his lackies to make road blocks across the country, idk.
Well, if anyone knows about rigging elections, Putin certainly qualifies!
Putin’s the type of dude who would steal your wallet and then help you look for it
oops! he forgot to activate the Trump puppet first, lol
He would know. He was the one providing the outside interference
“I should know, I did it.” -Pooteen
Rigged by him
Well...he would know
He's right you know. He's just not saying it's the Republicans who are benefitting.
Supreme Court nominations, Republicans benefit. Voter suppression/intimidation, Republicans benefit.
Recounting elections (Gore vs Bush), Republicans benefit.
Tossing votes before they get counted, Republicans benefit.
Articles like this just prove that this country isn't really paying attention anymore. Everybody has mentally checked out. And I don't blame them, this is exhausting. But it's all to the Republicans benefit.
Seeing Putin Gaddafi'd is on my bucket list.
What are you gonna do anyway huh ? Take over the capit- wait
Well, duh, the boss and subordinate have to be championing the same strategy, anything else is just bad business.
Shit stirring.
So, Putin and Trump are on the same page...? Color me surprised.
Of course I know him. He's me!
Like Putin doesn't rig his elections in his favor? Lol
$10? I got mine for $5. And I’m not even American. /s
I need a browser extension that changes every headline that begins with "Putin says..." to "Putin opens his mouth to let some of the diarrhea he's been gargling spill down his chin for Republicans to lick up."
And these stupid americans would pay for something that is completely free with our revolutionary Distant Electoral Voting system based on a blockchain technology!