Trump must pay E. Jean Carroll over $83 million in defamation damages, jury rules
nbcnews.com
Former President Donald Trump must pay writer E. Jean Carroll over $83 million in damages for repeatedly defaming her, a jury found Friday.
The nine-person jury began deliberations in federal court in New York at 1:40 p.m. ET and reached a verdict in just under three hours.
Wow. They actually used the “she was asking for it” argument against a victim of sexual assault.
Also, he’s still not going to shut up about it and will land back in court under additional defamation charges.
Not exactly. It's far more insidious (and stupid). Her tact was to show that Carroll already received her financial reward by all the books and news appearances (i.e. the "comments and attention"). Basically, "Sure, she was raped, but look how well she profited from it!"
Too bad that kind of argument is only really relevant to the first trial. This one was punitive damages for failing to shut up after losing the first one, the purpose of which is to punish Trump so he thinks twice about doing it again, not award reparations to Ms. Carroll.
Alina Habba is truly the lawyer Trump deserves.
I agree, and my comment was intended as a reference not to the original rape but to the defense saying that she did not deserve any additional compensation due to Trump’s ongoing defamation because she wanted to profit off of it.
If I remember, one of his initial defenses against the allegations of rape was that the woman accusing him was too unattractive to rape, while other defenses were “they just let you do it.” I was thinking about the ironic application of the “asking for it” argument being applied to the additional judgement of defamation.
He’s going to triple down on this though, because he never thinks twice about anything. I don’t know if he is actually playing the game of “never admit to being wrong even when you are” or if he’s simply delusional enough to have reconstructed reality in his own brain, but I’d lay a wager that he’s not going to be able to shut up about this, even now. I don’t think it will even take a reporter triggering him by asking about it. I think it’s just going to pop out in one of his word salad campaign rambles.
And I can't wait for that to happen, because I'm sure a third jury will be so pleased (/s) he did it a third time.
Maybe next time he could at least be smart enough to do it in a red state.
Can't wait for someone to ask him about the case at a rally or something. He won't be able to help himself.
He knows very well how profitable being a victim can be and must think that that's why anyone is a victim. They don't win cases (because Trump hasn't ever really had a case), they settle out of court or gain from the sympathy of others.
The sheer speed at which the jury came to this determination is a really good sign that everyone on the jury was like "fuck this dude in particular". Not only that, what I think was hilarious was that Trump's testimony about his valuation in his NY civil trail was submitted and accepted as evidence for the determination on this fine. Like literally some Loony Toons Wile E. Coyote exploding in your face kind of thing.
This was such a massive L for Trump's legal team that I believe the correct lawyer term is HA HA HA HAHAH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HAHA!!
I swear, I'm just waiting for what creative backhoing their graves Trump's team will be doing in the appeals.
What's that saying? "Speech is free. Lies are expensive."
I'm gonna go ahead and borrow this, and then save it for later.
I, on the other hand, will outright steat it. Thanks, tho.
I open my mouth and out pops something spiteful
Words are so cheap, but they can turn out expensive
Words like conviction can turn into a sentence
Lawyer here. Can confirm.
It’s great when lawyers use the old Latin phrase but you can still figure out what it means through context.
‘Speech is free, but lies you have to pay for.’ - Louis Tompros, lawyer with WilmerHale and lecturer at Harvard Law School.
I mean, throwing a tantrum and storming out of court is going to be seen as a sign of disrespect by any jury. I bet if there even was a Trump supporter in the jury they'd be turned off by his behaviour.
Wow, 3x the money in punitive damage. Imagine how bad it'd be if this country did anything but fine rich people for being evil...
I overshot the damages award in a previous comment I made. I thought it was going to be closer to $150 million, but $83 million is still substantial. Plus there is a strong likelihood E. Jean Carroll and Robbie Kaplan could sue Donald Trump for defamation again for all the things he posted during this trial.
I'd just love to see this snowball into an avalanche.
It's already happening. He's probably defaming her on Truth Social right now while OD'ing on McDonald's.
Well he a billionaire so $83 million is a drop in the bucket. He’s probably got that much as change in the couch /s
“Well he a billionaire” [citation needed].
That's the beauty, his own sworn evidence that he brought in during the NY trial.
This is where worlds collide, especially if the NY judge orders the dissolution of the companies in NY, all assets will need to be moved, I bet ms Carrol's' lawyers will be standing by the sideline to make sure she gets paid.
And themselves! If they’re working on contingency they’ve got 8 figures coming their way too.
Enlightened Self-interest.
Funny thing would be that if he now claims he cannot pay, he automatically admits perjury in the other trial.
I present to you the only proof that he's a billionaire: He said so. That's valid, right? Right? Guys? Anybody?
In the instance of the court setting damages, I’m happy to accept the highest valuation Trump has to offer
In late stage capitalism, having a billion and owing three billion means you in effect still have a billion.
It's not like with normal people who have to subtract debt from assets and actually pay what we owe.
So yeah, he's a billionaire in all ways that affect him and will be until he dies, which can't happen soon enough.
83,000 would be a drop in the bucket. 83 million is more like a water bottle in a bucket.
Waiting for the SCOTUS to (again) reduce punitive damage limits in order to protect their special boy.
Historically, they HATE punitive civil damages and look for cases to cut them back. That's where the current ~4x limit currently exists, which even in the State Farm decision was clearly flagged as toeing the line.
Just look at how little actual damage Exxon ever paid for the Valdez spill. Or McDonalds for the hot coffee. These punitive damages always have a habit of just evaporating after the headlines. Leaving the victim little better off than before.
I doubt that will happen. This is round two of defaming her; it's already been established that he raped and defamed her, and it is glaringly obvious that he did it again (even before this verdict). His team will have to first appeal to the New York Court of Appeals, and it's very unlikely that they'll even hear it.
SCOTUS isn't likely to do him a favor but virtue of the highest court in NY not hearing it and this being a very obvious case of repeat offense. They suck right now, and they've made some really awful arguments and rulings, but they haven't exactly been a rubber stamp for Trump or Conservatives, either.
Thanks for the sanity check. I'm not lover of the current Court, but no, they're not partisan (ruling for the GOP or Trump).
Been collecting cases to show this. Only been going a week so far:
https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-transgender-bathrooms-indiana-35c59c4dbe94668592c96e2a27c8d517
https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-immigration-texas-razor-wire-9daef6bd316211b6633ece718e505187
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/u-s-supreme-court-wont-take-up-wa-capital-gains-tax-challenge/
It’s a civil case, unfortunately, so jail time was never an option. At the time the incident occurred, there was a five year statute of limitations, so Trump has never been charged criminally in the matter.
There's something truly gross about a civil case being the only recourse for a heinous crime.
Fucking loser always loses.
He's demonstrably the actual biggest loser in history, and he just got more loser-y folks... If any of you are starting to have your memories fade, here's a quick refresher to read this morning and then copy and send to your aunt karen in Missouri.
🎵 And a partridge in a pear treeeee 🎵
Holy shit that’s an incredible list. Amazing summation. Thanks.
He’s like an elite trailer park king of awfulness.
....
83 - million dollars Trump has to pay to E. Jean Carrol for defamation.
91 - indictments
Some slight dissonance as you switch from "always loses" to "was president for 4 years"
Many people think he didn’t even want to win the first time around. Like the picture of his face when he found out, etc.
So maybe he actually lost that election vs his expectations.
losing the popular vote still counts
At least fix the markdown ffs
Start the clock... how long until he fucks up this ruling too?
Are we using American time with Scaramuccis or British time with Lettuces?
The Liz Truss lettuce is tricky because while the lettuce only lasted 6 days, they didn't start counting until 14/10/22 when she had been sworn in on 6/9/22.
Technically a Mooch (11 or 10 days) is longer than a lettuce, but the lettuce measurement was artificially shortened. ;)
Both are still longer than a Brittany Spears marriage at 55 hours.
You made me giggle! Cause everyone knows it.
Planck time
I'd be fine if he keeps doing this and Carroll just bleeds him and his supporters dry and she becomes mega rich
She will become.... maga rich
As soon as he is president again, he will just change laws.
Punitive damages are capped under a million anyways
Not in this case they aren't:
"The award included $11 million for damage to Carroll's reputation, $7.3 million for emotional harm and other damages, and $65 million in punitive damages."
Just like Guiliani's case:
https://apnews.com/article/giuliani-2020-election-georgia-defamation-moss-freeman-6f6446c4f5224f521db8ff7763fb12d1
"There was an audible gasp in the courtroom when the jury foreperson read aloud the $75 million award in punitive damages for the women. Moss and Freeman were each awarded another roughly $36 million in other damages."
That depends on the circumstances of the case. In the case of certain federal crimes, murder, rape, and certain types of arson being a nonexhausive list, there's no cap.
IANAL, but the ideas of Molon Labe, and FAFO are written into federal law, in multiple areas
Edit: obviously this comment is talking about the US
Tell that to the judge
............obviously not.
He wouldn't have to pay anything if he could have kept his little anus mouth shut.
I give it less than a day before he defames her again.
He probably already has, but I refuse to go to his sewer of a Twitter clone to see.
Oh my god his mouth actually DOES look like a butthole!
Thank you for allowing my eyes to experience trauma in a whole new way today
What an absolute miserable day too have eyes.
Right? All he had to do was be a decent human being, or barring that, at least pretend to not be a vindictive asshole.
It's complete insanity that neither party is using this case against Trump during the primaries. Especially Haley, it's a gift wrapped opportunity for her to score points on Trump and she completely ignores it. Her campaign was a lost cause from the start but none of the Republican candidates have acted like they are even trying.
Let me get this straight: you think the
grab em by the pussy
crowd is gonna give a flying shit?!?
Not enough lib owning to interest those chucklefucks
Maybe not the moonshine-addled MAGA crowd, but there are plenty of faux Republicans (centrists) who may.
Erm, Haley is using this for her campaign:
Source: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4432630-haley-trump-defamation-verdict-america-can-do-better/
She's not wrong that we can do better.
She's just wrong in assuming she is better.
I mean, I certainly don't intended to vote for her over Biden, even considering my distaste for Biden, but I would say she is better than Trump from what I've seen. She seems more like "regular" republican evil primarily dangerous due to harmful policies, which is still plenty bad to be fair, but I don't expect we'd be as likely to have her try a coup should she lose an election.
I'd take her over Trump for sure.
But Biden over her, and like, fucking any other Democrat over Biden.
But this is where we're at, so I guess I'll fall in line.
I think this is my favorite dig on it
"If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him.."
-Sun Tzu
They don't know about it. Legit know someone that doesn't know all the legal issues trump is currently going through. Lots of "if he committed a crime why hasn't he been charged?" It was a bit surreal. All the witch hunt talk has saturated the conversation so they don't even know official proceedings are fully underway. They think because he hasn't actually paid the damages to E Jean Carrol it means he wasn't found "guilty" (because they don't understand the nuance between civil and criminal).
You think any news station Haley watches is even talking about this?
Conservatives live in a bubble these days 100%.
Any time they step outside of it the liberal "slant" of reality slaps them in the face.
You know things like being forced to acknowledge and respect LGBTQ+ people...
And ruin her future chances at getting elected in the
republicanTrumpican party?Honestly though, has trump ever paid anyone anything, like ever??
(In Nelson’s voice) “HA-HA!”
God sent Trump… to rape women and harass them relentlessly while encouraging others to threaten their lives. God be praised. Praise be to the rapist messiah.
I hope this goes on forever: he keeps defaming, she keeps sueing. Cause we all know this fat turd wont keep his mouth shut.
He's keeping it shut so far this time. This fine is enough to hurt.
He'll pay as much as Alex Jones has. Jack shit. Unless the court can forcibly remove the funds from their accounts or put them in prison until they pay, these fucks will do nothing.
Yeah, he's well-known as a deadbeat.
Yes, the courts can and absolutely will, though not in this case, because he's going to cough up the cash quickly (well as quickly as he can sell some stuff because there's no way he has that much in liquid assets).
I want her to be able to put liens on all his properties. I doubt that can happen but it would be glorious.
Lol get fucked, loser
Stop being so mean!
What is that pic from? It's the only time I've ever seen him look human.
Probably AI generated
So, we getting new Trump NFT cards? I need to complete the set.
Haven't seen you around in a while. Glad you're back. Can always count on you for a quality comment 😂
I get banned because… reasons. Hope you’re doing well.
capricious moderation. that's why.
I don’t mind. It keeps me from being stagnant and reminds me to adapt to the reader.
Ditto, and glad you're back in action. See ya around!
This seems amazing. Just shy of starting a religion. I'm down if you're down.
Can we start a pool on when/if he actually pays?
He already paid the previous $5 million. Technically it's in an escrow pending appeal, so Carroll doesn't have it yet. But regardless, Trump is out $5 million.
Now Trump has four choices:
Pay the $83 million to Carroll
File an appeal, which means either paying $83 million into an escrow account or putting a lien on his properties and getting a bank to pay $83 million into an escrow account. Either way, Carroll gets the money as soon as she wins the appeal
Do nothing. This is the worst option, because after 30 days Carroll's lawyers would start choosing Trump properties to auction off and/or directly withdrawing money from his bank accounts.
Declare bankruptcy. This could introduce a delay, but it will inevitably result in Trump properties being auctioned off.
Wouldn't New York have a lien on most of his properties with their fraud case?
I guess he will likely will try to appeal the amount and leverage another lein onto his properties. He could also use his grift money from the PAC's to pay into the escrow.
Of course his appeal will go swimmingly when he defames her again in 3... 2... 1...
He can't appeal the amount. He has to put the amount into escrow before he can appeal. That's standard practice for courts, so that people don't try to weasel out of paying. Trump isn't the first person to lose a big lawsuit....
If all of Trump's properties are under lien and he has nothing left in his bank accounts, then that leaves option 4.
Option 3 doesn't seem to be working for Alex Jones's creditors.
He chose option 4, and his estate is facing liquidation.
If it's paid at all, it'll be out of simp donation money.
That's the very sad truth of current US politics
I'll bet it all on never.
Carroll may not be paid for years if Trump strings out the appeals. But to appeal, he has to either pay the entire award to the court first, or he can use an appeal bond - assuming any financial institution will give him one. His credit rating is questionable with all these trials hanging over his head. $83 million here, maybe $370 million there, unknown amounts in the documents and vote tampering cases. And nobody is actually sure how much he's worth. The Trump brand is damaged goods.
He's under a financial microscope at the moment. He can't reassign any assets until the two civil trials are completed and paid. Whether Carroll sees the entire award depends on the NY fraud outcome and what Trump's assets are really worth. Maybe his cracker jack attorney will miss the 2 week appeal deadline, allowing Carroll to seize his liquid assets and put liens on Trump's real estate holdings.
Is it considered paying if it's forcefully garnished?
People in this thread saying he's not going to pay. How can he just not pay if it's a court order? Genuinely curious how that works. (Assuming the appeal is denied or whatever the final number he owes is).
Someone can probably give a better answer, but it starts by him not paying.
He will appeal the result and that could easily take another year or so, during which time he doesn't pay.
Then he will just not pay, that will take some time since you can't complain to the courts that he didn't pay after 1 day, it probably takes at least 90 days, but realistically probably closer to 120 or 150 days so that he is REALLY overdue.
Then he is given a grace period to respond, that's another 30 to 60 days. He'll just say that he can't. That goes back and forth for a while, at least 6 months total.
Eventually the courts might put some sort of lien on Trump's income except he doesn't make money the traditional way, so it won't pay out. That takes another 6 months or so.
Then maybe they start going after assets. Assets aren't just free, so that takes even more time.
Also during all of this Trump moves assets around. He isn't allowed to, but he's already not allowed to and he has.
At some point in this process an agreement for a settlement is brought up. Trump will offer pennies on the dollar, which no one will accept. Trump will use this to bide even more time.
It's neverending legal maneuvering. Just bullshit on bullshit on bullshit. Eventually someone gives up or dies. It takes tens of tens of years. At any point Trump can just start to pay a little bit of it, then stop after a few months and the process starts again.
BTW if you don't pay your bills the full fury comes down on you. No baby gloves.
To appeal he will have to put the amount ik escrow. Which negates a few of the statements you've made. Though completely agree that Trump usually goes for delay, delay, delay.
In order to file an appeal, he has to pay immediately. The money doesn't go to Carroll, it goes into an escrow account until she wins the appeal. But either way, Trump is out $83 million. No pay = no appeal.
If he doesn't appeal and doesn't pay, then in 30 days Carroll's lawyers will have access to his bank accounts and properties. At that point it won't matter if he writes a check, they can simply take what they are entitled to directly from his bank. If there isn't enough in his account, they can start an auction for his properties. The only thing Trump could do would be to declare bankruptcy, and this would only slow down the process not stop it.
Trump can get away with not paying his contractors, but he can't get away with not paying a court judgment. Of note, back when he owed Carroll $5 million, he paid on time.
Depends.
He could get a bond to secure the appeal of he can find a bank who will lend to him. Which might be easier, with what looks like the impending sale of his New York properties
Yes, he could get a bond. But these bonds are generally 100% collateralized, because the bank is unlikely to get their money back. So that just means his property will be under lien during the appeal and auctioned off if he loses.
Generally. Trump has an uncanny ability to secure bank loans though. And, if New York requires him to sell his properties in the fraud case it wouldn't surprise me if he was able to leverage the impending sale to secure the bond and then pull, well, a trump.
Remember, the rules you and I play by are not in effect here.
Well, he was able to secure loans back before it was revealed that he misrepresented the value of his assets. Now, perhaps it won't be so easy.
We can hope.
Not after 2020 anymore because:
I am sure Deutsche Bank is not going to give him another Cent and any other bank will go and count stairs, because he is lying about everything, even about how many floors his buildings have. The times it was easy for him are over.
On top of the 83 million he has a huge amount to pay to his lawyers and since he is not accepting the outcome of the trial and he has another 14 or so going on... and taking money out of his election funds is now also harder to do and getting elected is more expensive because Koch is helping his opponent and Koch has a truly endless warchest.
Every financial transaction he does is under a looking glas now, no more face value and trust, he is seen as the financial sector should have seen him in the past: A naked "king" that pretends to wear nice clothes.
On the assets, he probably also has them set up such that he doesn't "own" them.
You can also be judgement proof informally.
You and I are likely judgement proof in this sort of situation - we can't actually afford it. We're not rapist pieces of shit as well.
That's 41.5 presidential pardons
No surprise this being the result, it will be very hard to find anyone in NYC that would go easy on the person known for decades as the city's biggest douchebag.
LO fucking L
Badda Bing, Badda Boom.
She will never see a dime. He gets away with it again, and he will continue to until he is actually taken into custody.
This is different. All his properties in New York are under receivership. If and when they are forcibly sold to pay the judgement in the New York Civil fraud trial any remaining funds will go directly to E. Jean Carroll as she will be a lien holder on those assets.
Judgment creditors are last in line, the government is first. He won't have anything left over.
It won't matter he will just delay and appeal till he dies and then his kids will do the same thing and sue to keep it from ever happening
Appeals are not an infinite process, and as we have already seem multiple times just this month the New York State Court of Appeals has either denied his requests for appeal or swiftly ruled against him. Sometimes the rock hard cock of the law does catch up with you.
As Martin Luther King Jr. said, "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice."
Edit: I changed my initial statement because I forgot this case was in federal court not state court.
What did MLK say about the “rock hard cock of the law?”
I think it was something about having a dream and then needing to change the sheets.
IIRC he has to put up a cash bond equal to the value of the judgement in order to appeal it. In other words he has to come up with $83.3 million in cash in order to appeal. I'm not sure he has that even if he raids the campaign fund.
Well that's at least good to know
If.
Any news on what the legal costs have been?
NYT reported $60 million back in August.
Trump said his legal fees were close to $100 million while campaigning in Iowa in late October.
The truth is that nobody really knows the hard total, though based on available information it seems like it could be upwards of $5 million per month on average.
Will he actually pay, though? There’s not a shred of honor in this guy, so I’m guessing the “check’s in the mail” until long after all the players are gone.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
So can someone who knows tell me: how likely is it that she collects this?
I wilt have thought zero, but she did get the $5m from the last case.
Didn’t know that, so that’s hopeful. I always just assume there’s ways for people like this to string it out and avoid paying.
Actually, the court got $5.5 million. It's being held until the appeal process is completed. Then Carroll will get that plus interest.
According to other reporting, unless Trump successfully appeals it's very likely he will need to pay, and hewould be forced to sell assets if necessary. Even if he had some success on appeal, he'd still have to pay something. Although, no one was mentioning him declaring himself supreme leader if elected.
Trump will tie it up in court until they're both dead.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Former President Donald Trump must pay writer E. Jean Carroll over $83 million in damages for repeatedly defaming her, a jury found Friday.
Trump had already been found liable for defaming Carroll while he was president by mocking her allegation that he'd sexually abused her, so this jury was only tasked with determining how much she should be paid in damages.
Carroll's lawyer Roberta Kaplan asked the jury for at least $24 million in compensatory damages for the harm she suffered and “lots and lots of money” in punitive damages to stop him from continuing to defame her.
Trump's attorney Alina Habba contended that Carroll “had failed to show she is entitled to any damages at all” because she "actively sought the comments and the attention" she received.
A different jury last year found Trump liable for sexually abusing her in a New York City department store in the 1990s and for defaming her by mocking her claims after he left the White House.
U.S. District Judge Lewis Kaplan found Trump liable for defamation in the current case based on that jury's findings.
The original article contains 340 words, the summary contains 183 words. Saved 46%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
[Nelson voice] Haw Haw!
Same link got submitted within minutes of each other, need to pick which one stays and which ones go.
Keeping the one with the most upvotes and comments, congratulations! A winner is you!
Until the jury unrules it?
How would that work?
Maybe it is like unbirthday in Alice in Wonderland?