Linus reviewed (roasted) our phone | Fairphone reacts
youtu.be
I can't believe some of the points Linus made against the Fairphone, especially given he's onboard with the same compromises for the Framework laptop. đź¤
I can't believe some of the points Linus made against the Fairphone, especially given he's onboard with the same compromises for the Framework laptop. đź¤
Eh, I stopped paying attention to Linus after the whole debacle last year.
Hmm, no, actually I think I stopped paying attention to him quite a long while ago. I think once they went all in on the clickbaity titles and just non-content, algorithm filler.
I first reevaluated my perception of him (shall we say) after that AWFUL “let’s try Linux” series, and it didn’t exactly get better from there.
The Microsoft ball gargling is ridiculous on its own
The Linux series was one of the best, because it showed what would happen if someone who didn’t know what they were doing tried to move to Linux. Linux shills have been preaching “it’s the year of the Linux desktop” forever now, but since it’s so different from windows and macOS there’s a massive learning curve that only shows up once you’ve switched.
I would bet 8/10 people who have used windows/macOS for 30+ years would have many of the same problems as Linus did. I know I’ve made many of the same mistakes that were made by Linus/Luke in that series, including accidentally nuking my DE.
Linux sucks as a desktop if you aren’t already familiar with Linux from the terminal. There’s a few edge cases, but for the most part it’s not a good experience if you do anything more than web browsing.
I’m no Linus shill, though I do enjoy their content for the most part. He’s not a tech god like people make him out to be, he’s just a slightly above average tech nerd who’s a good presenter. And that’s the audience that the Linux shills are trying to push the OS onto.
I think what you're saying is that Linux desktop is going to be a bad experience if you come in with your expectations from macos or windows. In neither of those can you "accidentally" uninstall your de because you're not reading terminal prompt.
This kinds of problems are for people who think they know what they're doing
Tech doesn't get wider adoption if you expect every user to know what they're doing. And without wider adoption, devs don't get on board and apps don't get made. Lowering the learning curve improves the experience for everybody, especially with linux where we can have different distributions with different target audiences.
I agree, but we're not there yet. As of now, you'll need to at least try to read what you're approving in terminal
But to avoid this you could run a VM and restore to a snapshot but that's not really switching to Linux. Windows/Mac users should generally not just jump into Linux but transition to it.
I'm genuinely curious how saying that Linux GUI desktop has issues equates to gargling Microsoft's balls?
Tribalism I'm guessing is why it's being said
I liked him when he was more authentic. Back when they were filming out of a house, rather than some compound, just doing silly shit like that whole office water cooling.
Now it's all about him blowing tons of cash on his house, or his studio, or just shilling/shitting on everything.
By making a video of it it becomes a deductible business expense. Use backyard pool for water-cooling video? Free pool.
His let's try Linux series was amazing. Showing how dogshit it really is when you get out of the circlejerk.
For those that haven't seen it: His Pop-OS desktop environment got un-installed by Apt when he tried to install Steam.
So many people forget that while they understand how to use a Linux terminal and how Linux on a high level works, not everyone does. Plus, learning all of that takes time, effort, and tenacity, which not everyone is willing to do. Linus's whole conclusion was that as long as that learning curve exists and as long as it's that easy to shoot yourself in the foot, Linux desktop just isn't viable for a lot of people.
But Linus has done a lot of public fuck ups therefore everything he says must be inherently wrong.
I'm an absolute mouth breathing imbecile, with no IT/SysAdmin/Otherwise technical background or knowledge outside of what I gained by just being a typical windows user.
I cold turkey switched to linux with relatively few issues with nothing but a weekend of sporadic research done beforehand. Learning curve for everyday shit hasnt been that deep or curvy.
Its not 1997. Linux is not that hard to use, even for gaming. Especially with some modern distros built specifically for the task (like Nobara)
No, its not for everyone, but its not this incomprehensibly obtuse and mystical monstrosity that people try to constantly paint it as, 30 years ago maybe, but not anymore. as long as you can follow basic instructions and have a modicum of common sense (Which is asking a lot from the average person, I know..)
Most people are not interested in tech. To them, doing any amount of research about computers will be a chore and something they will try to avoid. They don't care about the linux philosophy, or open source, and just want a computer that works for them as quickly as possible. So naturally they use Mac or Windows like all of their friends.
I dont give a shit about my OS.
I didnt switch cause I saw the blessed light of open source software or anything like that.
I switched cause I fucking hated Windows 10, and absolutely fucking loathe windows 11 and the direction they are taking their operating systems. and my choice was to take Windows 10/11, or to go Linux... and I went Linux.
So you can say I switched under duress
Linux is free if you don't value your time.
I spend far more time dealing with issues in Windows than I do Manjaro. I only boot my windows partition when I absolutely have to
How many years have you been using Linux?
Also relevant:
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/6754380
Fewer years than I've been using windows. 20 years of Linux, 25 years of Windows. I personally think the stigma that Linux has is due to the past. I would agree that it was difficult at points in the past.
The thing is that your 20 years greatly skews your perspective on what easy is compared to someone who has never used it. And I agree, it's never been better, but for a lot of people, it just isn't there yet.
My main issue with it is that it's so fractured, it's greatest strength is also it's greatest weakness OSS often lacks standardisation and Linux is a victim of that.
Its slowly getting there, I mean I think it's awesome that SystemD is used by so many distros, it's some commonality between them all.
But then you get Ubuntu trying to be smart and using dash, then it breaks scripts and I want to scream. So there are those actively making it worse, lol.
Fuck, I made a hackintosh and windows was still more maintenance intensive if you're the type that doesn't like persistent problems. Most windows users just close error windows until something completely breaks and act dumb when I have to fix their shit. One time, Windows 10 auto update broke and I have to reinstall from scratch because none of the fixes worked. I spent about 10 times longer doing trouble shooting then I would have just doing a clean reinstall.
Yup, and I've spent hours troubleshooting dumb fucking issues on Linux servers that often end up with me just blasting it away and starting again because the further I get into it, the more shit I find broken.
Linux is stable and repeatable, that's why it's great for servers. But I've wasted way too many hours of my life troubleshooting dumb problems that shouldn't even be problems and often I just say fuck it and rebuild it. I don't want to do that on my desktop thanks. Especially because sometimes I do random mindless shit. Look how Linus uninstalled his UI because he didn't know any better. The last time I uninstalled the entire UI on windows was when converting a Server 2012 machine to server core.
But I think the bottom line is, let people use what they want.
My friend only uses arch and there's a few games we want to play together but it doesn't work on Linux, there's also plenty of times we have to wait while he's troubleshooting shit when we want to play games.
He's an SRE with about 22 years of experience. It's not even a skill issue.
We often jokingly say "have you tried using windows?" or "this wouldn't happen on windows" and dumb shit like that. But he uses Arch and wr all accept that and that there are some issues and the things said are in jest. He sometimes hits us with the same shit. But overall we respect that we want different things from our PCs and I do enough of this shit at work for me to want to do anything at home besides click on some UI shit and things just work.
Its okay to be different and it's okay if you use Linux and I use windows, bashing on about how bad it is isn't winning any friends or favor and the general toxicity with this shit puts a lot of people off of even trying Linux.
This is exactly what I did with windows (mostly 98 and XP) when I had a problem. Troubleshooting and fixing always took longer than just nuking and reinstalling. So I kept all my data on a separate partition/drive, with backups of bookmarks/emails/etc, so I could quickly and easily restore back to where I was.
Windows 7 was the bomb though, So fucking stable and issue free. Think I only had to nuke due to problems twice in the whole time I ran it, every other install was due to hardware failures/migrations. Such a good OS.
It really was. I like Win10 too, but not as much
Step 1: open "pop shop" in the task bar
Step 2: search for "Steam"
Step 3: Click download
This concludes my guide on how to download Steam on Pop!_OS.
afair they fixed and improved stuff since the video tho
That is what he did. Then when Pop Shop threw an error, he looked up other ways to install it, and ended up doing it in the terminal through apt. Though his system was not up to date, so it got messed up and he removed his DE in the process. All he needed to do was make sure to update his system after that fresh install BEFORE he started installing things.
Most conventional OS's will notify you when you need to do this.
You're right, I rewatched it for better context. Not a lot of detail on what he tried, it kind of just skipped forwards.
I also think it's funny how he talks about doing everybody from a newbies perspective while using a Threadrpper and Titan PC with XLR peripherals lol
You know why.
Do you think he'd have gotten as many eyes on the video if it went smoothly and he read what he was supposed to?
"Eyes on the video" is usually dependent on the thumbnail, not the actual content.
If anything I think it probably would have gotten more eyes if it came off as a viable alternative.
TIL any video thats ever gotten popular or viral was thanks entirely and 100% due to the thumbnail and not at all due to the content.
"100%" was not in any part of my statement but nice job rephrasing to intentionally misrepresent my statements.
Intentionally ignoring the sarcasm so you can pretend to be a victim. How original.
Agreed. It was pretty refreshing and sobering.
I gave up a while back, and can't really nail down what actually got me over the edge to stop watching.
Really didn't help that the one time I checked back in, because I hadn't seen anything from him in a bit (prior to the latest scandals), all the latest uploads was him being totally unrelatable and barely even tech-relevant while trying to heat his pool with his water cooling loop.
I ignored him for years because of his click bait video images, but then started liking him due to the scrap yard wars. But then quickly grew tired of his regular content after a couple of months with what a shill fest the entire thing was from their begging for likes to begging to buy their merch to begging for patreon.
Who cares what linus thinks he is a youtube shill.
More and more I'm starting to agree with this view, still glad he introduced me to my new laptop (framework 16) though
I heard its good the lap i mean.
I really like it so far, I look forward to using it for a long time
You got one? :o I thought the pre-purchase batches would be sent in March.
I was batch 2, it looks like the first few batches are going out at the same time, also I was lucky as I didn't order any of the parts that were delayed
Enjoy
What a dumb take. Linus is one of the primary tech reviewers. After he got blasted by GN they got their shit together.
They're advertisers disguised as reviewers.
They disclose their advertisements through audio and video, altough I dislike them not declaring in title whether it's a sponsored video or review. Linus said publicly that he wonders why people don't understand which of their videos is sponsored or not, but going by their titles it's to be expected.
Watching their video it's imo pretty obvious what is a review and what is
sponsoredadvertisement.Which reviewers do you find that don't utilize advertising?
ACG on YouTube I feel does a great job at this if he's following his publicized guidelines. He doesn't do any sponsored content nor accept paid for trips from the gaming industry and when he receives a free copy of the game for review purposes he purchases a copy to give away to the audience. Accepting the free early copies and paying to give one away on release seems like a good compromise to ensure he can get the review out near the embargo date.
https://www.acgamer.net/about
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_2c4kmx5vjlWk-jS2XHEDw
His primary skill and draw is entertainment. Tech is just what fills the gaps between shenanigans, "isn't this cool?" and the next self-deprecating remark.
Bullshit. Linus was one of the first reviewers that didn't say dumb stuff like "buy a really expensive motherboard and a mid range CPU" or "spend 200 dollars on a 1000Watt PSU for your 300Watt system".
Was that in the past few years?
I watched his stuff before the GN kerfuffle . I'm not unfamiliar with the self-promotion, compound-building as content, antics or free-wheeling vids (or vids made to look that way).
Yes, even the side channel stuff.
The tech signal to total signal is... Low-ish. It's entertaining, it's broad in its scope, but I can find denser, deeper stuff if I care about a topic.
I agree, but it is important to point out that this is not necessarily a bad thing. It just means that the videos are aimed at a more mainstream audience. His videos are definitely part of what got me (and many other people) interested in tech.
The LTT stuff that's currently coming out is high quality stuff.
After GN went off on LTT, Linus reigned in his marketing staff and gave the tech staff more time resources to properly review.
I'll check it out. Thanks for the update.
I don't think Linus Sebastian is worth watching during the NCIX days because he always seem like someone who would spend the least amount of effort and say whatever is popular to get the most amount of views. As you can see in this video, a lot of the criticism he made on the Fairphone are really nitpicking and isn't fair (heh) at all.
For example, the phone thickness, which he measured with a caliper as a point, is not a metric most people outside of reviewers would care about, especially since most people puts a beefy case on their phone immediately anyways, and size is usually the main tradeoff with modularity.
Or their point about using a Qualcomm industrial chip instead of a Snapdragon chip as a point against Fairphone, when they have previously stated that it is to get a longer time of support.
That being said, having a long, uncut and unfiltered reaction video towards criticism by having the co-founder improv on the spot was not the smartest thing to do on Fairphone's part. He came off as defensive and completely unprepared in the video and failed to address the criticism effectively (with some easy rebuttals if he was given even a little time to prepare) effectively, which is not great for PR.
The video could be much more effective if they cut it down to half the length with an actual script. It's a YouTube video, there's no reason to do it completely live and unscripted.
For the last part: I'm pretty sure it's just his thing to do "real" things, instead of scripting, cutting it down, watching it before or anything.
I also very much got the feeling that he acted in a defensive and hurt way, but it's his real emotion and I can understand it since Linus is bashing the phone much more than "necessary".
To me, the profile thickness is a benefit. Tiny thin phones scream "compressed electronics, overheats fast, difficult repairs"
I think the main reason for a thin phone nowadays is to have it fit in your trouser pocket. (or lack thereof). Having a flip style folding phone (as opposed to a book style) really helps.
I generally wear loose fitting pants and belt, but I can definitely see how it would conflict with tightpants fashions.
Of course the support is great, but some other phones also achieve that without a slow and old SoC.
The Fairphone seems pretty nice in theory but the performance is pretty poor and the price is high.
Poor in comparison to what though? I know what the benchmarks say but I don't really notice any differences between the Fairphone 5 (what I'm currently typing on) or my previous phones (Huawei Mate 10, Zenfone 6, Zenfone 8 Flip) in terms of daily driving (aside from battery maybe). I'm sure there is for gaming, but that's the one thing I don't use my phone for.
I haven't used it personally but apparently it's general usage is pretty slow.
All I can say is that has not been my experience and I am curious what exactly people think is slow about it.
I could be entirely wrong, but it seems like some people are conflating benchmarks against current flagships as the day to day experience.
Peak performance was not a priority. I would argue most modern phones are far more powerful than is necessary for daily tasks, often at the cost of battery life.
Also their test of using nothing but a constant YouTube video playback is not reflective of real-world use. Mrwhosetheboss (terrible name BTW) does much more realistic tests.
The cost will necessarily be higher because they are not utilizing the absolute cheapest way of doing things. As stated in the video they specifically source providers who provide their workers a fair wage and sustainably-sourced materials. Hence the name.
What are people using their phones for that require such beefy processing power? I have a Fairphone 4, which presumably is slower than the Fairphone 5, and it is perfectly snappy for all my needs. Actually curious. Is it gaming?
I dunno I just heard it was slow for general usage.
But I also wonder why there exists so many phones that target mobile gaming with external fans and all that.
What games are people playing that require a special gaming phone? Switch emulation or something is the only thing I can think of.
Last I checked all mobile games ran perfectly fine on everything. I don't really understand non-casual mobile gaming. If I want to play good games I play on a switch, steam deck, or I just wait until I get home and I play in the way I find most comfortable, i.e. using a mouse and keyboard.
Fairphone 4 is not slow for general usage, but for gaming it can be slow depending on the load, ye.
Gamecube emulation would be slower than latest and greatest, but those soc's only have 4 years of support, and thats not up to fairphone's standards
Just like any hardware, it all depends what you use it for and what your requirements are.
Hehe yeah, mobile gaming seems awful to me as well. Never heard about external fans. Seems like going out of your way to have a sub-par gaming experience.
Its gaming. I asked this in an old thread before and the response was gaming and emulation. Which is fair if you want the latest and greatest, but general usage on my fairphone 4 is snappy and fine so idk. I dont do gaming on my phone though :)
Linus is full of shit in a lot of videos
I know what phone I'll be looking for when the piece of shit in my pocket finally dies. That maneuver where he popped the cover with a fingernail and hotswapped the battery sold me.
Hey, totally unrelated question: Didn't linus recently take a lot of flak for shady/unfair reviewing practices?
No, he took a lot of flack for rushing through them with lots of errors.
He's trash and the people that defend him are useful idiots.
Yes. Yes, indeed.
Yeah. He took flack. It was more about the completeness and accuracy of the reviews rather than being unfair.... at least from what I recall.
They did a whole show of the matter, suspended uploads for a week or so, did some internal restructuring, hired a new CEO. Linus is now chief vision officer or some such nonsense.
Bluntly, I liked LTT videos more when they were a scrappy bunch of nerds working out of a house, putting out a couple videos a week...
You knew the information wasn't perfect and that was fine. It was enough to give you an impression of what to expect. They did a recent comparison that confirmed something I already knew, by taking a smattering of the "same" CPU and testing them against eachother. They found that some were quantifiably better than others. To me this was proof that all reviews are skewed. You never know which way they'll be skewed, and it really doesn't matter. The fact remains that all tech reviews are going to be different than personal experience. They're also going to differ from reviewer to reviewer since, even if they're using the "same" hardware, that hardware might be slightly faster or slower than other reviewers by a small margin. Once upon a time the hardware was so similar and the differences were so small you could effectively ignore this variance. Modern hardware is so fast that even a small variance can make a pretty significant difference to benchmark performance.
So you have to take literally everything posted as a review with a grain of salt. It's not accurate to what you would experience buying the exact same stuff off a shelf. As lithography gets smaller and smaller the relatively minor variance will have a larger and larger impact to the final products performance.
It's the way of things. All things. Whether it's a car or a computer, some just roll off the line different.
I seem to recall something to the effect of "theft of a prototype:" like a custom water block or something like that he was supposed to review, and then gave a rushed, improper review, and then misplaced or in some way failed to return the prototype. IIRC.
They were sent some form of prototype cooler from a startup for a specific GPU, I believe it was LTT used a different GPU that the cooler wasn’t meant for
LTT complained the cooler was shit and didn’t work up to standard, which is to be expected when using it on something it wasn’t meant for.
And then sold the cooler at some kind of expo or show when the startup specifically asked for it.
This is mostly right, I remember this part clearly:
The water block was a custom block for both a CPU and GPU combined into one mass. It was supposed to sandwich a specific CPU series chip and a specific GPU. They used the right CPU series with it, but used the next GPU up in the series... I think it was built for a 3080 or something and they put a 4000 series on it.
They realized their mistake, even during the shoot, but Linus didn't want to spend the time, effort and money into retesting it with the proper components, and just steamrolled ahead with the video.
After all that, their team neglected to return the prototype promptly, and took months to even properly communicate with the manufacturer. During those months they held some kind of gathering, either LTX or one of their LANs, and during the event someone suggested the prototype water block for the silent auction, and Linus agreed, so they auctioned it off and gave the money to charity.
There was some drama about it, and Linus did his usual thing of speaking before thinking and digging his grave even further, then eventually made a public apology. They committed to paying the full price for the prototype, well above $20k, if I recall, so that the company could have a new one created.
Much of the recent criticism relates specifically to toxic/bro culture and a work culture that encouraged cutting corners, mistakes, and burnout. I'm not sure what was going on in the house behind the scenes was a model of a professional workplace.
He hired the CEO a few months prior to that so that they could deal with running the company while he focused on content creation.
When they ditched the headphone jack fairphone ditched environmentalism.
The fairphone 3+ was their last fair phone.
It's just another cheap phone now. Made in the same place from the same stuff as other makers, with maybe a year of extra security updates.
They started by doing stuff differently, now they do things the same as everyone else and want to pretend they're different.
It's still a modular, repairable phone. That's objectively different to a regular phone. Not to mention the broad support for ROMs.
I still wouldn't buy one because of the cost, reduced performance, reduced battery life, and worse screen than other phones. It's not worth it even if it's upgradable as it can't be upgraded enough to stay relevant forever anyway unlike a framework where you can plop in a new motherboard.
Sounds like you didn't watch the video
I disagreed with the video.
Sounds like you're too keen to spout fallacies as if you're in a debating match rather than engaging in a discussion.
I'm stating my point because you contradict the video not because you don't agree with it.
If the lack of jack stock is a deal breaker for you, then it's a deal breaker for you. From what I see, they still make phones that are great if not among the best performing phones out there, then they are great in other ways, as explained in the video.
The lack of ethics and increase in waste is a deal breaker for me.
They're not the best performing. They're generally slow. Other phones objectively perform better.
Not only did the fairphone 4 ditch a feature I needed and would prevent waste in general for many.
It also caused my housemate who owned one no end of issues with every update. Bluetooth dropouts, touchscreen glitches.
Issues with the camera.
Issues with the microphone
Slow charging.
He's a beta tester and he's paid a premium for it.
Support from fairphone has basically been pathetic.
It's hilarious how many supporters of this company are. It must be like the phenomenon of car drivers supporting public transport. They're hoping everyone else buys a fairphone.
As they're not even the most environmentally friendly phone it's all a bit silly.
Which part of the video talks about the audiojack? I must've missed it.
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
I'm refering to the part about a phone being great on other parameters than just stuff that few users find valuable. They talked bout it when it comes to gaming.
You are wrong but I feel like arguing with you is pointless so carry on.
Ew, who still watches LTT?
More people than are active on Lemmy
That's
...
SAD BUT TRUUUUE, YEEA
YEAHEAH!
Lol, that bar is not too high though.
insert Roblox oof sound
Linus simply isn't the target audience for this phone. He says he's onboard with their mission and everything, but then makes points that aren't relevant to their mission. Also, if a company as dedicated to their mission as FairPhone (or so they claim, I haven't personally checked) can make a phone like this, then probably the reason other companies make better phones is really because they don't care about ethics and morals but cold hard cash.
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
The point is; he wants a Framework-like approach to modularity and feature set. That means a phone that's good enough to actually holds its own without retreating to being "ethical" or "modular."
Fairphone is just the worst deal you can get even if you consider the ethical side of it. This is because rescuing an old phone gives you a much better experience for less than half the cost and keeping tech from the landfill is a lot more ecologically friendly as the work and sourcing was already done regardless of you purchasing the device.
Even Google failed at that and he's expecting a cash-strapped startup to do so better and ethically at that too? He's naive, ignorant, or both.
It is not, if you buy a new phone. Then it's ethically better to buy a FairPhone. If all companies were held to the ethical standards of FairPhone, then we could talk about performance, but if you care more about performance than ethics, that's your deal.
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
Nice, cc in case this gets hoovered up into a llm?
You got it! đź‘Ť
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
The only LTT review I'm interested in is a review of the culture in the workplace.
I hope Madison is doing OK today.
Hurts so bad to get your 1 in 1000000 dream job to get sexually harassed out of it.
Fuck Lingus. Who cares what he thinks about anything?
12 yo's, probably.
A lot of men who think they are techies because they game or something but really aren't.
Honestly it’s funny to watch WAN and see him melt down over obvious trolls in chat. Makes me feel a lot better about my own emotional stability.
Don't know what you're talking about.
Though I actually did finally listen to Linus's review. Minus a few stupid things like "it's too thick" or "I don't like where the SIM slot is", I think I mostly agree with him. It seem like the software at least has some major issues if he is to be believed.
I actually agree with him on the thickness, especially since I'd put the phone in a case which would add even more girth. It makes it less pocketable, and more importantly less easy to handle. My thumb can't easily reach all the way across the screen on my current, similarly sized and thinner phone already and the added few millimetres from the case do make it noticeably worse.
It's not the major thing that's keeping me away from the Fairphone (I'm just not the target demographic), but certainly isn't a point in it's favour.
It is a little annoying to have to reboot the phone to switch micro SD cards
It's quite annoying for me, (when i had an sd card slot) i pulled my card and moved files back and forth a lot because androids "file server" is ass at transferring more than a couple things. WiFi transferring is okay but i don't like having to constantly map files to an ftp or smb so i can access them quickly, i know I'm in the minority on this but really accessible hot swap storage is super important to me. Most of my drives are removable in my main computer so i can toss them in my bag with my laptop and take what i need with me. My v20 had 2 sd cards tucked into it's case so i could swap between a (retro)rom library, music library, or run system backups to the 3rd.
I agree with a lot of the points LTT had, I was pretty excited for this video when I saw it. But the response was just complaing and excuses instead of just being nice and simple "here's the issue you had, We can either fix it, or can't for these reasons..."
Yeah, I was expecting something like "Yeah, this is an issue, we know. It's that way because we had to make a trade-off to enable ..." but it was mostly just lame excuses or just talking about something entirely unrelated to the point being made.
Like the thickness of the device and bezels. Just accept it, the FP is thicc. It's a conscious trade-off you made. Be open about it. Don't whine about measuring with the camera bump included (if anything, measuring from the bump gives the FP an advantage since its bump isn't as thic as others?). If the bezels are a little thicker than the competition, just state why that is (i.e. to make it easier to replace).
Had to stop watching after that or I would have died of cringe.
for sure. I managed to power through but it didnt get better at all
I don't care what fairphone or Linus says. They got rid of the headphone jack. A "modular" phone my ass.
The second biggest dealbreaker for me after the small battery.
Ok, they have a USB-C to jack dongle, but guess what USB-C port's wearout is the reason I was looking for a new phone in the first place.
Port wearout, isn't that a good reason for a repairable phone?
I don't know much about the fair phone I do remember a day when cellphone batteries were user replaceable and back then you could get third party larger batteries with larger cases. Is that available for the fair phone?
I've got a list of must haves for phones and that is on it. Obviously nothing has met my list in years.
The USB-C pulling double duty for an audio port means it wears out faster. If the port needs replacement sooner, then that goes against their e-waste reduction goals. But look, they have ear buds!
Great, more batteries, more points of failure. Simple is best. I want my wired headphones.
So I could choose, get replecement parts for my current phone (charging board + battery) for 40 eur. Or get a new fairphone for 700 eur, downgrading my battery by 40% and throwing away a functional phone.
Really wish c wasn't the standard. Breaks so easily
I don't know what are you doing with your phones. I have never witnessed someone wearing out a USB Type-C port.
Anyway, if you want to be upset at someone, the implementators of USB standards are: Apple, HP, Intel, Microsoft, Renesas Electronics, STMicroelectronics, Texas Instruments.
ITT people mad at Linus for pointing out all the reasons the phone wouldn’t appeal to a mass market audience
Lemmy as usual disregarding pragmatism to be as dogmatic as possible
“You mean people DONT like a thick, heavy phone with a garbage camera and poor battery life? Well obviously, everyone else is wrong”
5 years later
This phone sucks, the display looks moderate at 1° viewing angle, isn't as powerful as my desktop PC, and we think all resources should be mined in the most unethical ways so we can have 20 more hours of tiktok on a single charge.
Tech channels go further and further from the mark of "good". I'm not playing AAA games on my phone, I don't watch YouTube for 20 hours straight, I prefer larger bezels (even if slightly uneven) because I tend to touch the screen accidentally if they're too small, and I prefer more responsible resources even if it means less battery life or performance.
I don't need a PC in my pocket and Linus is just going too far into the techbro headspace for me to trust him for anything .
This video is how so many tech reviewers are now, credit to MeatCanyon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GsoZOpw8aE
This is exactly what I felt while watching this. Does anyone really care about bezel width or weight or thickness when the differences have to be measured with callipers? And that stupid yellow tint when you're not looking directly at your phone. I'd actually like worse viewing angles for my phone because it seems better privacy wise.
Battery life is kinda nice if you're travelling or just not sure when you'll next be able to charge, but in those cases the solution is always to just get a battery pack for emergencies. All of these criticisms seem so out of touch with how people actually use their phones.
And when those compromises mean you have your phone longer and buy a more ethical, sustainable product that pays workers... Easy choice.
Tbh both have fair points from their side of bias.
Fuck Linus "Tech Tips"
The framework laptop is not handicapped in terms of performance nearly as much and has a much more reasonable price for what you get idk what you're talking about
...who?
he's an investor in framework btw
And?
I think the idea is that Linus is a hypocrite.
One is a phone. One is a laptop.
It does seem to be the thinnest available criticism here.
They are both products focused on being fairer for consumers with upgradable components and better repairability. In terms of this discussion yours is a distinction without a difference.
One is a phone. One is a laptop.
I'm getting Idiocracy vibes from your comment.
Welcome to Fairphone. I love you.
Not even that. It's that his review isn't an objective assessment of the product because he stands to financially benefit from Framework doing well. He's worse than a hypocrite, he's a shill.
I don't understand what one has to do with the other?
One is a laptop, one is a phone, they don't compete with each other.
I'm talking less about the products and more about Linus's reviewing practices. We saw this in the watercooler debacle. He half-asses reviews and blames the product when he's the one messing up.
If you want to say he is not always a good reviewer, that's a fair position, but not what we're discussing. We're discussing an alleged conflict of interest.
They both have the same goal of reperability and the same shortcoming (being way more pricy than competitors with the same performances). Buy one gets roasted and not the other.
One has to make significantly more compromises than the other due to the form factor. Again, these are not comparable devices.
He reviewed the framework. He invests in it. That makes him bought and paid for. He doesn't become a new person each time he reviews a product, his history exists regardless
LOL no it doesn't?
You don't have to "become a new person" to understand that this product does not compete with the one he invested in. If there was another laptop reviewed that was the same repairable/upgradeable ethos you might have a point.
You don't seem to understand the concept that if a source is biased, then they can be unreliable in areas outside of their known bias. It's not hard though, really.
You don't seem to understand that no one doesn't have a bias. Or that the supposed issue at hand is not bias at all but a conflict of interest. One that does not exist with phones.
K simp
Hmm, you make a convincing rebuttal.
Whatever you wanna say about the fairphone, LTT shouldn't have any say in the review industry after their back-to-back lying to the public AND sexual harassment debacles. They've been sleazy for years, taking money from companies they claim to review impartially, and twisting everything into a meme factory instead of putting the tiniest amount of effort into quality reviews and tech journalism.
Linus is absolutely the last guy you should be listening to on anything unless he's explaining how he managed to salvage his reputation after covering up toxic and predatory workplace behaviour and still coming out the other side a multimillionaire.
What?
... that none of which ended up in the court let alone confirmed. That's an allegation, not something proven.
Straight up one of the points GN made. Which they really did improve upon. They don't pump out as much content now, as well as generally higher quality content again.
:D
Guy created and ran a YouTube channel, expanded it to be a media company. Hosts a forum, sells high quality merchandise (you can look up the coverage of their bag or screwdrivers from places like project farm). Also runs a premium video hosting and live streaming service for creators. That's what we call "earned it."
This comment just reeks of toxicity, rather than criticism.
I would say this is a "bad take" from Linus.
You really can't compare a Fairphone to any other phone on a level playing field because it has goals that literally no other phone has, and will inevitably make compromises to achieve those goals.
He had multiple "dealbreakers" that are trivial to most. He seemed to approach this entire review from a very selfish perspective. And while a personal view can be useful, it shouldn't be entirely self-centered, which is how he came off.
Thicker phones is something enthusiasts have been clamoring for for years. The number of trade-offs they've made in exchange for a couple extra mm in phones is absurd.
Same goes for a couple of extra mm in the bezels.
The off-axis viewing angles is something that has always confused me. Who looks at their displays that way?
Gaming is not great? Who cares? It's not a gaming phone.
Camera is not great? Most of modern camera quality is in software. Install Gcam or Open camera and save yourself the cash. F5 had some of the best photos of the ones they showed anyway.
Like Jesus, these are the things you want to focus on? Is there nothing more important you could talk about in this short review?
Most of these can be fixed with a software update (which isn't an excuse).
The guy in the video also had a bad take, comparing the F5 to F4 over and over again. Like who are you, Apple? It doesn't matter to the end user.
My biggest gripe with Fairphone is their lack of a headphone jack. I think that's a legitimate dealbreaker for a lot of people and also goes against the "fair" ethos. But that was never mentioned in this review 🤷
Yeah, I was listening and found myself nodding many of the design choices. Yes I want 60Hz default, yes I don't want SIM slot on the side, yes I want the phone to be thicker and heavier to accommodate the durability and repairability and features... I'm clearly the target demographic for this device and Linus'es review felt like it completely missed the point. "It's not much more difficult to replace the Galaxy Note's battery" say what buddy?
I can't even imagine how you can possibly say its a bad take. They were all fair criticisms of that phone, if it doesn't apply to you very well, but the fact that it's slower than an old phone it might matter to some specially in the optic of keeping that phone for 5/6 years or more...
It's nothing about my personal opinion. It's about the priorities of their target market.
They were fair criticisms but the way they were presented (angry "dealbreakers") appears to come from a very selfish perspective, and there were several other important items he left out of the review entirely.
Phones don't use much energy. I'm not getting the "efficiency" thing for wireless charging. Even new standards are basically the same.
This CEO sounds like he has no idea what he's talking about
Energy lost as heat during the power transmission. It's what makes the phones warm during wireless charging. That heat decreases the lifespan of the battery and makes the phone uncomfortable to use, which is why wireless charging speed is limited once the phone reaches a certain temperature. I specifically avoid using wireless charging on my Pixel to extend its battery lifespan since it will live for 7 years and battery replacement is expensive. New wireless charging standards could probably play with frequency and other parameters in order to reduce energy lost as heat, similar to how increasing the voltage in a circuit decreases loss to heat for the same cables.
Yes but that's mostly relevant when using fast wireless charging. Slow wireless charging doesn't get that hot. And it reduces friction on the USB port.
Furthermore this phone has a swappable battery so it would be fixable if the battery degraded
I can think of reasons to not to include wireless charging such as repairability. The efficiency is bs as people can still charge wired if they want to.
Pogo pins on the back of the phone, pads on the cover with the coil, and bam, you have a removable wireless charger and a replaceable battery.
I haven't seen a single device (other than a two way handset) that uses that sort of function. You would have to slot your phone into a giant plastic base and I just don't know why anyone would want that. Anything but that and the charge pins would be exposed and thusly a fire hazard. Spring loaded pins are a dinosaur in today's tech market and no one, let alone a company that is trying to reduce waste, would use such an outdated and niche system.
I don't think you fully understood (my fault for a shitty explanation)
So you have the pogo pins on the back of the body of the phone, they connect to the back cover of the phone, the cover that covers the removable battery. The back cover has the coil integrated into it.
You can make the coil be removable from the back cover to reduce waste if you decide to replace the back because it's scratched or broken.
The pogo pins are literally just to connect the wireless charging coil to the back of the phones cover when you close the phone up.
Oh lol, I'm dumb. Thanks for explaining.
No worries!
i’ve got a samsung chargepad thing, it has a builtin little cute fan (internal, not blowing on the phone) - the phone is elevated, laying on a lip so it does not have direct contact. it’s always cool to the touch even tho it charges relatively quick (80% charge limit tho)
Maybe so, but you've lost energy to making that heat, now you're spending more energy to remove it. Ergo, efficiency.
Something can be technically correct. Efficiency.
And not matter at all because phones don't need any real amount of power.
Not when it's explicitly defined.
And did you just call a 70% efficient device (staggeringly low by engineering practices in even the 60s) a negligible amount of power? Do you have even the remotest inkling of just how many billions of these chips are produced annually? Assuming only 0.1% will go in phones with wireless charging and that they will only be used for that year, we are talking about an enormous quantity of energy that is wasted. It would be enough energy to push the earth into the sun.
You're being very dismissive about something you obviously have no real experience in, and there would be nothing wrong with not knowing something if you weren't making claims simultaneously. Efficiency is a well known, inarguably defined, rigorously studied, timelessly practiced, design concept that the CEO has an obvious working knowledge of. There is no "alternative truth" that is being ignored here, only ones that should be.
Oof, so much hate when confronted with the simple fact that over the course of a phone's life, wireless charging doesn't have more than a slight negative impact. And one that isn't going to be noticed by 99% of users. They will notice the convenience wireless brings though.
But continue to cry from your basement.
No hate. Just annoyed. But you'd probably be annoyed too if I insisted on my uninformed opinions about selling herbalife.
I guess airflow especially between the phone and the pad could mitigate the heat. I see some charging pads integrate this now.
You shouldn't bother. I exclusively charge my Pixels wirelessly and keep them around forever as development devices and the batteries on all of them are fine.
The long and short of the lower efficiency of wireless charging is a concept called Free Space Loss
In order for energy to pass through an open space it has to use some energy. Unlike a cable where the pins are contacting and the loss is far lower.
Yes but it's not massive amounts.
Phones use practically no energy compared to PC's laptops, washing machines etc.
And if people want that level of charging efficiency... The USB C port still exists...
My latest phone is a xiaomi note 12. It has 120 watt charging and I never knew I'd love this so much! 0 to 100% in 30 min. No need to plan charging any more. Just give it 10 min and you're good to go. Charging efficiency is maybe the greatest feature I look for now, besides connectivity
That's not efficiency, that's speed. I charging efficiency is your charger drawing 35W and your phone only getting charged with 30W.
Honestly, in the best of circumstances, it would be closer to only 20 W getting to the phone by today's standards.
Yes and no, 120W charging wouldn't be possible if the electronics in the phone weren't quite efficient, because there would be too much heat generated.
You are probably right. It's efficient for me though. I get a lot more charge per minute wasted waiting for it to charge. But it may not be the scientific term of efficiency
Otherwise known as, "efficiency"
Ah, yes, "alternative facts."
Maybe say convenient instead.
I think they meant to say it's time efficient for them, not that the phone is energy efficient.
I don't watch LTT anymore thanks to Gamers Nexus. I was shopping for a new graphics card for my mother's desktop and I did see the confusing inconsistencies they were talking about in at least one video.
It just seemed like an improvement to switch to AMD from Nvidia ever since she switched to Linux. I'll watch this later!
Ligma test strips
Just shows the lack of knowledge LTT have really. They just dont understand Fairphone at all, or even how people use phones apparently...
did he grope the phone? not intending to watch any of his shit.