Just because the politicians want to grab you out of your life and use you as cannon fodder doesn't mean they want to actually be as accountable to you as they're supposed to.
Politicians voting for mandatory draft should be on the frontline. Pieces of shit.
Automatic registration for Selective Services, not automatic draft. That’s very different. This is actually helpful in keeping people out of prison or getting fined for not registering.
But yes, this absolutely proves that they could automatically register people to vote with no designated party affiliation.
As a European I have always been confused when Americans talk about "voter registration". The way it works in my country is you are legally required to register your residence with the government and that registration is automatically used to determine a voter registry (just filtering by age, citizenship and exclusion due to criminal convictions all of which is information already known to the government). I always just get a letter a few weeks before elections informing me where my polling place is.
Well you see, in the United States, the way some politicians, specifically ones belonging to a certain very authoritarian political party manage to get elected is by making sure people don't or can't vote.
This is often coupled with throwing a huge hissy fit about "voter fraud" which doesn't actually exist on any remotely meaningful level.
Well, voting fraud is a thing in Russia. Stuffing when one person throws multiple ballots at once, carousel when one persion votes one multiple stations, dead souls(reference to Gogol) where dead or absent people vote and Venedictov's box - when Sobyanin repeatedly claims that electronic voting results will come immidiately when voting ends, but don't long after all physical stations reported results.
Comparing Russian elections to US elections may as well be comparing Vichy France elections to US elections. They are quite different beasts.
Maybe, but I am more familiar Russian elections. Personal experience.
Also important note: election fraud != voting fraud. Voting fraud is just one type of election fraud. In Russia most widespread type of election fraud is not registering candidates.
Registering candidates in the US doesn't matter, I could run for president or any other office and no one would reject my application to be on the ballot, unless I didn't have enough signatures.
I would be surprised if you've ever heard of Vermin Supreme, or any of the other third party candidates for US president, much less the lower offices.
Btw it's insane to exclude people in a supposed democracy based on criminal convictions.
It's by design, if everyone voted, there would only be a very limited few republikkklowns in office, if any.
It seems that they exclude people wherever the commenter lives too.
Can exclude, not all of them do, I think it has to be a specific part of the sentence (ie not automatic) because some high court ruled that some years ago.
Can exclude, not all of them do
Who are "them"?
Who is excluding people where you live and why can they do that? Isn't it handled centrally by a single governmental body?
I meant not all criminal offenses necessarily cause an exclusion from voting rights. If I recall correctly there is a list of specific ones for which people can be sentenced to loss of voting rights.
That sounds logical for offences that have something to do with trying to overthrow the government or the like
German Law is very sane in regards to voting rights.
§ 13 of the German Federal Election Act (BWG) stipulates that only who is disenfranchised as a result of a judge's decision is excluded from the right to vote.
This provision does not conflict with the general principle of equality in Article 3 of the Basic Law (Grundgesetz - GG) and the principles of equality and universality of the vote, because the right to vote is not automatically revoked, but may only be revoked by a judge's ruling if certain legal requirements are met.
However, this exclusion as a result of a German court ruling is only possible in a few cases expressly mentioned in the Criminal Code (StGB) and the Federal Constitutional Court Act (BVerfGG) and applies for a maximum of two to five years. Exclusion from the right to vote applies if a person has been sentenced to at least six months or at least one year in prison for the following offenses, for example:
Preparation of a war of aggression and high treason against the Federation
Treason and disclosure of state secrets
Attack against organs and representatives of foreign states
Obstruction of elections and falsification of election documents
Bribery of members of parliament
acts of sabotage of means of defense or intelligence service endangering security (in this case, a prison sentence of at least one year is required).
In these cases, the deprivation of the right to vote is at the discretion of the court in accordance with the special criminal law provisions and is not an automatic consequence of the conviction for these criminal offenses.
Furthermore, the right to vote can be revoked by the Federal Constitutional Court due to the violation of fundamental rights.
The disenfranchisement from voting is btw. also the foundation that makes one ineligible to be elected.
According to the Federal Election Act, anyone who has German citizenship and is of legal age on the day of the election is electable. This does not apply to those who:
have lost the right to vote and therefore their eligibility to be elected as a result of a court ruling or no longer have the capacity to hold public office
is permanently dependent on a statutory caregiver / guardian
or is in a psychiatric hospital due to a conviction
In France you have to register to vote as well. It takes about a minute and you can do it online or at the town hall
Yep. Same. You just go get stamp in passport once, then you just go to voting station with passport. That's it. Oh, also by default(when you get passport) you get stamp that you live where you lived during filing.
you are legally required to register your residence with the government
Bit depressing.
Even in the US, you're legally required to for quite a number of things. The most obvious being driver's license/ID cards.
The standard is good behavior, not other people.
Also ID cards don't require it. License's do.
In my state, the state-issued photo ID cards absolutely do.
I might catch hate for this but I never understood why it wasn't automatic the entire time since it's illegal to not register.
Easy way to funnel the lazy into prison labor?
Not any more at least. Prior to this bill, failing to register for Selective Services was a felony punishable by imprisonment for up to five years and/or a fine of not more than $250,000.
Now you’re automatically enrolled. I think it’s actually better this way.
Eh, military service now is 8 years right? I'd take jail and file bankruptcy. At least you'll be alive instead of cannon fodder, and it's 3 years less.
We were always forced to register. The fine and imprisonment were penalties for avoiding registration. You’d be registered at the hearing as well as facing consequences.
At least you'll be alive instead of cannon fodder
I don't think the military is dying at a noticeable rate, especially as "cannon fodder." A quick Google says deaths by hostile action hasn't broken the triple digits annually over the last decade. I also didn't really look at the other deaths, so feel free to dive into that side.
This is about the draft. We haven't drafted in forever either, but you can bet if they draft it's because cannon fodder is needed.
We haven’t drafted in 50 years. That’s nothing
I'm catching a vibe you didn't read the initial comment you posted to.
if they draft it's because cannon fodder is needed.
That's a big if, as you noted US hasn't drafted in forever. But even if they did draft, the US hasn't used "cannon fodder" tactics for several decades. Their technology is so advanced (and military budget/spending so high) they don't need to in order to win. Trench warfare ain't really a thing anymore.
That never happened
Because there has not been a draft since the 70s, where automatic registration was not feasible.
Yes, but failure to register was a felony.
Just say you have bone spurs
Pretty sure that doesn’t get you out of the registration, only actually serving. I think Trump was registered and said the bone spur thing later
Yeah — seems like they just want to test people
It was not automatic so rich people can avoid it. I have never heard of someone facing criminal charges for failing to register. I have heard that failing to register can impact eligibility for college financial aid and scholarships.
I have heard that failing to register can impact eligibility for college financial aid and scholarships.
And this is why I hate the fucking neoliberals so much. As bad as the conservatives are they don't expect me to agree with them, they just want my money. Neoliberalism demands that you not only pay a shit ton of money for student loan debt that you also internalize that you deserve to because you were privileged. They have developed economic original sin
It should be automatic, and it is now. Why did I have to worry about it 40-years ago? Now? Now worries, done deal. Nothing has changed.
Of course lemmy thinks that serving means you're on the front lines as a grunt with an M4.
Might as well be. Giving a gun to a murderer is as bad as pulling the trigger, and that's what supply officers do. Mechanics fix killing machines. Cooks feed killers while they're off killing. The military is a machine, and every cog in that machine is a murderer.
You're already legally required to manually register with the selective service if you are male and you turn 18.
Why not just introduce legislation to end that requirement altogether.
Don't give them ideas.
As an aside, my parents kept me out of the "the system" for most of my youth so I missed my deadline, I never knew it existed.
This made me ineligible for some benefits like federal loans and other programs. I wrote to Selective Service with a notarized letter that my failure to register was truly an oversight and they sent me a waiver and cleared my status.
Oh no.. war is happening..
Just tell them that you have bone spurs
AFAIK this is only required if you apply for financial aid for college.
If I were an American I'd be calling their office and saying I can't fill out their form, and appearing in court to defend my violation of the law on the grounds that it's impossible to legally follow. Lying about my sex on a government form would be illegal, and I don't want to break the law.
Ayy, shout out Alyssa Rosenzweig! They're doing great work on M1 graphics drivers.
It is required your all males. That said, you will generally only have an issue when applying for financial aid or if you want to work for the federal government.
When I applied for a license at 16 back in 2006-esk time(born in 89) it was required to sign up to acquire one. 2 years before being legally allowed to vote
This will definitely get the kids voting Republican.
GOP 2024: We want you to die.
Remember kids, you can be a draft dodger and be president 😎👉👉
Which would be fine if said draft dodger wasn't a chickenhawk.
You're going to have to be more specific, I can think of at least 2 that could fit that description.
Things are only bad if Donald Trump does them.
No, it's also bad when Rush Limbaugh and Ted Nugent do it.
Also Bush II's questionable service record.
You mean like John Kerry? No, wait, he served in Vietnam and was shot at. Who are you thinking of?
So people can be automatically registered for the draft, but not automatically registered to vote? Seems like bullshit.
You didn't think the government would actually do something for you, did you?
Disagree, just make the draft also affect women so it's not sexist
I agree also require everyone to reregister at 65. Maybe grandpa and granma will think next time
"Hmm I really want lower oil prices but having to be drafted and assigned combat roles in the middle east is something I don't want"
But a village of 50 men and 50 women might be able to survive with 40 of those men dead. It most likely won’t survive with 40 of those women dead.
This is why, when shit is so bad that we’re drafting men to fight, we need to let the women stay home if they choose to.
You can always let immigrants in as long as you win the war
Good news for you, I guess.... this includes making women sign up.
Not what the article said
Are you implying we should blindly accept Yahoo News as a reputable source for all information and disregard everything else?
Can you find a source that says so? I only find sources that say they are not required
For one, I think this was already required. I remember having to enroll in selective service.
For two though, whoever calls another draft is dead in the water. It's commonly accepted that starting an actual draft is political suicide.
That said, it would be nice if we could codify that and ban the draft.
You are required to sign up but they usually only can enforce it in ways such as applying for a driver's license or voter registration. Maybe more kids aren't applying for drivers licenses and therefore aren't signing up.
if you never sign up you're excluded from a number of government jobs such as at the post office.
That would make sense, I never pay attention but it would make sense why so many applications ask about it
It's bonkers that you have to actively sign up for it. Canada had conscription on the books as an available tool but like... you never actively signed on or were penalized for not doing that paperwork. In 2021 they ended all mandatory military service and two months ago they removed conscription entirely. Not that it's possible for conscription to not come back as technically it's not actively banned, but if it did it would have to be written and implemented as law entirely from scratch and be re subject to the full process of new constitutional challenge and could now be subject to gender discriminations to strictly men as required by current civil rights .
There's something about coercing someone to sign their name to paper to register for conscription that feels wrong to me that just accepting a call to conscription doesn’t. Like they want to reduce your resistance to it by making it "voluntary".
Many people don't pay attention. My mother (63) didn't know me or my brother were egistered when a conversation came up about it last year. Most people are so complacent in accepting every day life because they are worried about living day by day. The concept that a mother who is legally responsible for 2 kids didn't know they both signed themselves to serve in the military at 16 is baffling from a stand back and look at it mentality. (Only two kids, both sign to give their life away while her and her husban(my father) are the only ones who legally could sign our lives away at that age.)
Yup. Bonkers.
I had to apply at the post office. I'm pretty sure there was a penalty if I didn't, like a fine or jail
$250k fine, but they haven't prosecuted anyone since the 80s, and even then, it was only a handful and typically only when the person went around bragging about it in protest.
The bigger deal is being barred from federal employment, contracts, grants, and other programs. Some states may deny drivers licenses because of it. And it used to mean you couldn't receive federal financial aid for college, but that changed in 2020.
the federal student loans and grants would not be dispersed if you were not signed up by a certain date
That was apparently repealed in 2020.
Wish it would've happened sooner. There was some issue with my school's financial aid office every freaking semester. A week before classes started, I would get a letter that all my financial aid was canceled for failing to register, and I'd have to go in and prove I had. After the 4th time, they finally took a photocopy of my registration and had me sign an affidavit and appended it to my file.
i did not know that, thank you for letting me know, it's good that they repealed that, for my area it wouldn't have made a difference for myself registering as our high school had all of the males do it as part of a civics class.
I wouldn't put it past the Republican party to bring conscription to the table. Probably with all kinds of exceptions and loopholes to either keep their own kids out of it entirely or guarantee cush domestic desk jobs to show how patriotic they are. Everybody else gets to line up with a rifle.
And with extra psychological torture to the undesirables, and will be sold to their voting base as "antidote to the LGBTQ+ movement".
It would be disastrous for Republicans. Independents and moderates would be furious
Yeah, honestly as long as we aren't willing to change things in a meaningful way, this is somewhat nice. It's like voter registration. It should be automatic (assuming it's required anyway). Sadly we are more likely to make draft registration automatic before voter registration.
Anything that actually required a draft would result in a nuclear exchange before the draft could be called.
If there is a legitimate reason for a draft, a draft may not be necessary anyway. Unless the enemy is offering a peaceful arrangement to everyone they meet, or there's no way to get your family to safety, I think most people would willingly fight.
Fully automated luxury war slavery
Some folks inherit star-spangled eyes
Ooh, they send you down to war, Lord
And when you ask 'em, "How much should we give?"
Ooh, they only answer, "More! More! More!" Yo
Fuck the draft. Dodge the draft.
If you can dodge a draft, you can dodge a ball
Apparently if you have "bone spurs" it's enough to get you out, just don't forget what foot you said you had them in.
Frag your CO before they even ship you out.
Seems like a pretty good Common Sense legislation really. You already have to register by law so making it automatic would be easier for all of us and avoid anyone getting in trouble for something stupid. I don't see a downside to this. I would like to see it apply to voting registration too however.
Haha good one...voting registration is not exactly in vogue these days.
Well, voting registration as it's implemented in America isn't exactly in vogue. As in "oh, you just need to get an ID to vote from now on." And people without ID need to do some extra paperwork and the office is open 5 minutes every other week, just go through the door located behind the acid moat and bear traps.
Over here in Finland: Government has a comprehensive record of citizens, they know where everyone lives and who's eligible to vote. So they send you a letter. "Here's how to do the advance voting, here's the polling location you need to go to on election day, Also here's how to draw the numbers, so this will be less confusing. Just bring this notice card with you. And an ID. If you don't have an ID, visit the police station and they'll give you one for free."
In Italy, you have to travel to whatever city you have residence in to vote. A lot of (mostly progressive) people have to fly across the country to cast their vote, apparently it sucks for them
I'm for this. Don't vote for war mongers when you or your kids or grandkids could be drafted for war.
Unfortunately there are no non-warmonger candidates in r or d and voting third party is a vote for trump so I guess we're all fucked amiright
Registration is already required,and has been for decades. This only automates the thing so people aren't breaking the law. Super simple stuff.
So I'm not sure what your point is?
That I'm pro this. That is the point. I can be pro something that is already the law and be pro things that increase the automation of it.
War monger kids and grandkids finagle indefinite deferments.
Technically, the USA already required you to sign up for the draft right around the time you received your Social Security Card. The draft has not been used since 1973 and earlier. So this basically has no adverse effect. Even if a draft happened all the same people who would have been drafted before will be drafted now.
You're required to sign up within 30 days of your 18th birthday. You should have (well your parents anyway) a social security card within the first year of your life, strange outliers aside.
It's still technically a crime knowingly not registering, with a $250k fine, even if it hasn't been prosecuted in decades.
It also bars you from federal government jobs, many federal programs, and grants. Until 2020, it also barred any federal financial aid for education, but that's changed now.
You should have a Social Security Number when you are born as a citizen of the USA. You register for your card when you turn 18.
Your parents received your ss card after you were born once your SSN was assigned.
You register for the draft when you register to vote.
I've definitely had my social security card since I was like, 12. Before that, my mom had it. Definitely, 100% did not get it at or around 18
American men are supposed to sign up for the draft when they turn 18, this new bill would make that an automatic process.
I think it's called selective service
Yes, it's called the selective service, but it's colloquially known as draft and that's what above was referencing
I like how you got downvoted for rehashing 16bit when all they did was repeat exactly the same thing me and the article headline said and still got upvotes.
The draft has not been used since 1973 and earlier
One thing I found as I’ve gotten older is that history gets shorter and shorter the older you get.
1973 was so recent bro you have no idea. It was within one human lifetime. That’s really close. That basically just happened.
I don't really get what point you're trying to make.
They're saying "I'M OLD AND TIME'S MOVING FAST SONNY BOY"
I don't even think he's over 69 I think he just wants to say the Draft is some impending doom we should be worried about, but at this point if a draft occurs it will probably be for something pretty important.
If it's important draft everyone then. Not just the men
Sure, sounds good.
Your sense of time is too short is what's being said.
I'm sorry I don't measure recent events in a span of a hundred years.
Trading bodily autonomy for voting isn't right, especially when half the country is not only exempt but fights any attempt to make it more equal.
Defending only yourself isn't right, especially when you want all the benefits with none of the costs.
Men are the only ones paying this cost in the US
Again, there hasn't been a draft in 51 years, all of our current armed forces are volunteers and about a fifth of them are women. If you want to extend the draft that is fine but it sounded more like you were opposed to the draft entirely.
Kinda a nothing burger really. The military doesn't want conscripts unless there's an existential threat to the country.
So there's two scenarios:
Selective service continues to exist and is only used if there's an existential threat to the country
Selective service is eliminated and is re-instated only if there's an existential threat to the country
Option 2 is preferable since it eliminates the cost of a program that will likely never be used again. But it still doesn't eliminate the possibility of a draft since if the country were under an existential threat in the future, legislation can be passed to bring it back. So Option 2 isn't effectively different from Option 1, other than the cost savings.
As it is, selective service is basically just a political talking point, and a way to "own the libs" or whatever. The best way to argue against it is to make an argument around the cost of a program that doesn't really accomplish anything. But the libs take the bait and argue about not wanting to be drafted, which isn't wrong, but that makes the libs look weak in the eyes of many, and it allows Republicans get to make hay about their opposition being weak.
Something tells me fragging (the original kind) might have a chance of becoming de rigueur again.
Applying for FAFSA was a required part of the application process for public universities and most private ones, meaning that nearly all amabs applying for college were automatically enrolled by this process…
until they simplified FAFSA in 2020, which I just learned about when acquiring the link above as a citation.
This bill would reinstate and expand automatic enrollment to amabs who don’t need FAFSA or who don’t want to go to college.
So they are trying to change the conditions for automatic enrollment from “has a penis and wants to go to college” (precovid) to just “has a penis”.
Naw I'm good, thanks.
I know I'm not the smartest fork in the kitchen, but how are they able to just pass this when it should be something we get to vote on?
I mean if you wanna argue that that is the way it should work, I guess we could have that conversation.
(Way too many people I know won't keep themselves informed enough to vote on representatives, let alone understanding every individual bill well enough to vote on those.)
But if you're under the impression that that is how it currently works, I guess all I can really do is recommend you take a civics class or something cause that's wild lmao
Prove to me right now that the average congressional rep knows everything they vote on as much as they should.
Prove to you a thing you just made up that nobody said?
I'm go with nah.
Fine don't. Continue to believe that Moscow Mitch is better informed and makes wiser decisions than a well read 15 year old.
The US is a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. You elect representatives to represent your interests. Or these days, you elect representatives to not represent the other people you don't like.
Thanks for the reply that helped :)
United States of Israel
Now that everyone is fat and 4 👀👁️👀 eyes, those are not excuses. When I was 18 I was not even close to being fit to serve. I wear glasses and I wasn't athletic.
So figure out the way guys! Trump had to take bone spurs! I'm sure you guys can come up with something! After all, how can you serve the Chinese overlords with war wounds right?
I mean they could take the Israel approach and exterminate us. Sorry too busy with my Ps7 Nintendo switcharoo. I think that if worse comes to worse I rather go than send my kids. I've had an okay life and my arthritis is starting to hurt. I think the Republicans are hard at work on preventing access to arthritis medication probably. So maybe I could just do my thing in China. Right? Defend our way of living. I want my kids to enjoy the freedoms I had. So I would fight for that now that I'm old and fucked up. Then the kids can join in later like the ruzzians did. They basically sent all their old men out to the meat grinder. Sounds bad. But if you got arthritis and you know people who had it, you would ask for the biggest grenade you could carry. I'd take that thing like a football right into a Chinese operations building or something. I mean, if they were evil and such according to the fear mongering politicians and if I indeed had my arthritis going uncontrolled. So far it's just an elbow and a pinky.
What was the question again? Get off my lawn hooligans!
If I am ever drafted (Unlikely due to my shoulder, colorblindness, various mental health things) I will just start saying "I'm going to tell the enemy where my group is and sabotage equipment. I am a liability, you don't want me there. If you put me with radio, I will shoot that radio. If you put me in cooking, I will spill the beans. If you give me a gun, it's not going to be used at the enemy."
Will I? Probably not. But talk is cheap and I don't think a military group wants someone who publicly stated "I will commit treason and aid the enemy."
Good way to end up in an internment camp under suspicion of sedition.
Better than shooting someone in cold blood because "murder is valid because we said it was war time." I'd rather be in jail than a murderer, I don't need to add PTSD when my brain is already fucked up.
You could just be a conscientious objector...
I am, and they wouldn't care in a draft. I'm a suicidal weirdo who refuses to harm anyone, I barely have the will power to harm myself, let alone others stuck in similar situations.
I just will say anything to get out of service of a war.
I just will say anything to get out of service of a war.
Apart from "I'm a conscientious objector" apparently. You have that right.
I'm going to say it. I was trying to be funny on the internet. I apologize.
Because the military has shown how fond of them they are even when they are truly heroes aka Desmond Doss' story.....
It sounds like you really don't want the military to be fond of you anyway. Conscientious objector would be the legal route to ensure you did not go to war.
It’s better to just tell them you’re suicidal. Not only will they take away any weapons from you, they will usher you out faster than you can blink.
Unless you're already in, in which case they'll put you on a mental health hold for a year or two, in the worst possible conditions, before kicking you out on your ass.
But if you’re in basic they will get you out fast and not bother with you.
Automatic draft, but notvoter registration...
Just because the politicians want to grab you out of your life and use you as cannon fodder doesn't mean they want to actually be as accountable to you as they're supposed to.
Politicians voting for mandatory draft should be on the frontline. Pieces of shit.
Why do they always send the poor?
Because we are expendable.
Why don't presidents fight the wars?
Automatic registration for Selective Services, not automatic draft. That’s very different. This is actually helpful in keeping people out of prison or getting fined for not registering.
But yes, this absolutely proves that they could automatically register people to vote with no designated party affiliation.
As a European I have always been confused when Americans talk about "voter registration". The way it works in my country is you are legally required to register your residence with the government and that registration is automatically used to determine a voter registry (just filtering by age, citizenship and exclusion due to criminal convictions all of which is information already known to the government). I always just get a letter a few weeks before elections informing me where my polling place is.
Well you see, in the United States, the way some politicians, specifically ones belonging to a certain very authoritarian political party manage to get elected is by making sure people don't or can't vote.
This is often coupled with throwing a huge hissy fit about "voter fraud" which doesn't actually exist on any remotely meaningful level.
Well, voting fraud is a thing in Russia. Stuffing when one person throws multiple ballots at once, carousel when one persion votes one multiple stations, dead souls(reference to Gogol) where dead or absent people vote and Venedictov's box - when Sobyanin repeatedly claims that electronic voting results will come immidiately when voting ends, but don't long after all physical stations reported results.
Comparing Russian elections to US elections may as well be comparing Vichy France elections to US elections. They are quite different beasts.
Maybe, but I am more familiar Russian elections. Personal experience.
Also important note: election fraud != voting fraud. Voting fraud is just one type of election fraud. In Russia most widespread type of election fraud is not registering candidates.
Registering candidates in the US doesn't matter, I could run for president or any other office and no one would reject my application to be on the ballot, unless I didn't have enough signatures.
I would be surprised if you've ever heard of Vermin Supreme, or any of the other third party candidates for US president, much less the lower offices.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermin_Supreme
Btw it's insane to exclude people in a supposed democracy based on criminal convictions.
It's by design, if everyone voted, there would only be a very limited few republikkklowns in office, if any.
It seems that they exclude people wherever the commenter lives too.
Can exclude, not all of them do, I think it has to be a specific part of the sentence (ie not automatic) because some high court ruled that some years ago.
Who is excluding people where you live and why can they do that? Isn't it handled centrally by a single governmental body?
I meant not all criminal offenses necessarily cause an exclusion from voting rights. If I recall correctly there is a list of specific ones for which people can be sentenced to loss of voting rights.
That sounds logical for offences that have something to do with trying to overthrow the government or the like
German Law is very sane in regards to voting rights.
The disenfranchisement from voting is btw. also the foundation that makes one ineligible to be elected.
In France you have to register to vote as well. It takes about a minute and you can do it online or at the town hall
Yep. Same. You just go get stamp in passport once, then you just go to voting station with passport. That's it. Oh, also by default(when you get passport) you get stamp that you live where you lived during filing.
Bit depressing.
Even in the US, you're legally required to for quite a number of things. The most obvious being driver's license/ID cards.
The standard is good behavior, not other people.
Also ID cards don't require it. License's do.
In my state, the state-issued photo ID cards absolutely do.
I might catch hate for this but I never understood why it wasn't automatic the entire time since it's illegal to not register.
Easy way to funnel the lazy into prison labor?
Not any more at least. Prior to this bill, failing to register for Selective Services was a felony punishable by imprisonment for up to five years and/or a fine of not more than $250,000.
Now you’re automatically enrolled. I think it’s actually better this way.
Eh, military service now is 8 years right? I'd take jail and file bankruptcy. At least you'll be alive instead of cannon fodder, and it's 3 years less.
We were always forced to register. The fine and imprisonment were penalties for avoiding registration. You’d be registered at the hearing as well as facing consequences.
I don't think the military is dying at a noticeable rate, especially as "cannon fodder." A quick Google says deaths by hostile action hasn't broken the triple digits annually over the last decade. I also didn't really look at the other deaths, so feel free to dive into that side.
https://dcas.dmdc.osd.mil/dcas/app/summaryData/deaths/byYearManner
This is about the draft. We haven't drafted in forever either, but you can bet if they draft it's because cannon fodder is needed.
We haven’t drafted in 50 years. That’s nothing
I'm catching a vibe you didn't read the initial comment you posted to.
That's a big if, as you noted US hasn't drafted in forever. But even if they did draft, the US hasn't used "cannon fodder" tactics for several decades. Their technology is so advanced (and military budget/spending so high) they don't need to in order to win. Trench warfare ain't really a thing anymore.
That never happened
Because there has not been a draft since the 70s, where automatic registration was not feasible.
Yes, but failure to register was a felony.
Just say you have bone spurs
Pretty sure that doesn’t get you out of the registration, only actually serving. I think Trump was registered and said the bone spur thing later
Yeah — seems like they just want to test people
It was not automatic so rich people can avoid it. I have never heard of someone facing criminal charges for failing to register. I have heard that failing to register can impact eligibility for college financial aid and scholarships.
And this is why I hate the fucking neoliberals so much. As bad as the conservatives are they don't expect me to agree with them, they just want my money. Neoliberalism demands that you not only pay a shit ton of money for student loan debt that you also internalize that you deserve to because you were privileged. They have developed economic original sin
It should be automatic, and it is now. Why did I have to worry about it 40-years ago? Now? Now worries, done deal. Nothing has changed.
Of course lemmy thinks that serving means you're on the front lines as a grunt with an M4.
Might as well be. Giving a gun to a murderer is as bad as pulling the trigger, and that's what supply officers do. Mechanics fix killing machines. Cooks feed killers while they're off killing. The military is a machine, and every cog in that machine is a murderer.
You're already legally required to manually register with the selective service if you are male and you turn 18.
Why not just introduce legislation to end that requirement altogether.
Don't give them ideas.
As an aside, my parents kept me out of the "the system" for most of my youth so I missed my deadline, I never knew it existed.
This made me ineligible for some benefits like federal loans and other programs. I wrote to Selective Service with a notarized letter that my failure to register was truly an oversight and they sent me a waiver and cleared my status.
Oh no.. war is happening..
Just tell them that you have bone spurs
AFAIK this is only required if you apply for financial aid for college.
Nope. Nearly all US citizens assigned male at birth age 18-25 must register, with very few exceptions.
That's transphobic. Trans women shouldn't have to sign up for the draft.
And sexist.
yeah, it sucks. heres a good essay on that issue
If I were an American I'd be calling their office and saying I can't fill out their form, and appearing in court to defend my violation of the law on the grounds that it's impossible to legally follow. Lying about my sex on a government form would be illegal, and I don't want to break the law.
Ayy, shout out Alyssa Rosenzweig! They're doing great work on M1 graphics drivers.
It is required your all males. That said, you will generally only have an issue when applying for financial aid or if you want to work for the federal government.
When I applied for a license at 16 back in 2006-esk time(born in 89) it was required to sign up to acquire one. 2 years before being legally allowed to vote
This will definitely get the kids voting Republican.
GOP 2024: We want you to die.
Remember kids, you can be a draft dodger and be president 😎👉👉
Which would be fine if said draft dodger wasn't a chickenhawk.
You're going to have to be more specific, I can think of at least 2 that could fit that description.
Things are only bad if Donald Trump does them.
No, it's also bad when Rush Limbaugh and Ted Nugent do it.
Also Bush II's questionable service record.
You mean like John Kerry? No, wait, he served in Vietnam and was shot at. Who are you thinking of?
So people can be automatically registered for the draft, but not automatically registered to vote? Seems like bullshit.
You didn't think the government would actually do something for you, did you?
Disagree, just make the draft also affect women so it's not sexist
I agree also require everyone to reregister at 65. Maybe grandpa and granma will think next time
"Hmm I really want lower oil prices but having to be drafted and assigned combat roles in the middle east is something I don't want"
But a village of 50 men and 50 women might be able to survive with 40 of those men dead. It most likely won’t survive with 40 of those women dead.
This is why, when shit is so bad that we’re drafting men to fight, we need to let the women stay home if they choose to.
You can always let immigrants in as long as you win the war
Good news for you, I guess.... this includes making women sign up.
Not what the article said
Are you implying we should blindly accept Yahoo News as a reputable source for all information and disregard everything else?
Can you find a source that says so? I only find sources that say they are not required
Example: https://www.americanbar.org/groups/senior_lawyers/resources/experience/2024-april-may/draft-will-should-women-have-duty-register/#:~:text=And%20post%209%2F11%2C%20those,their%20gender%20is%20later%20changed.
Where your source for YOUR claim?
For one, I think this was already required. I remember having to enroll in selective service.
For two though, whoever calls another draft is dead in the water. It's commonly accepted that starting an actual draft is political suicide.
That said, it would be nice if we could codify that and ban the draft.
You are required to sign up but they usually only can enforce it in ways such as applying for a driver's license or voter registration. Maybe more kids aren't applying for drivers licenses and therefore aren't signing up.
if you never sign up you're excluded from a number of government jobs such as at the post office.
That would make sense, I never pay attention but it would make sense why so many applications ask about it
It's bonkers that you have to actively sign up for it. Canada had conscription on the books as an available tool but like... you never actively signed on or were penalized for not doing that paperwork. In 2021 they ended all mandatory military service and two months ago they removed conscription entirely. Not that it's possible for conscription to not come back as technically it's not actively banned, but if it did it would have to be written and implemented as law entirely from scratch and be re subject to the full process of new constitutional challenge and could now be subject to gender discriminations to strictly men as required by current civil rights .
There's something about coercing someone to sign their name to paper to register for conscription that feels wrong to me that just accepting a call to conscription doesn’t. Like they want to reduce your resistance to it by making it "voluntary".
Many people don't pay attention. My mother (63) didn't know me or my brother were egistered when a conversation came up about it last year. Most people are so complacent in accepting every day life because they are worried about living day by day. The concept that a mother who is legally responsible for 2 kids didn't know they both signed themselves to serve in the military at 16 is baffling from a stand back and look at it mentality. (Only two kids, both sign to give their life away while her and her husban(my father) are the only ones who legally could sign our lives away at that age.)
Yup. Bonkers.
I had to apply at the post office. I'm pretty sure there was a penalty if I didn't, like a fine or jail
$250k fine, but they haven't prosecuted anyone since the 80s, and even then, it was only a handful and typically only when the person went around bragging about it in protest.
The bigger deal is being barred from federal employment, contracts, grants, and other programs. Some states may deny drivers licenses because of it. And it used to mean you couldn't receive federal financial aid for college, but that changed in 2020.
the federal student loans and grants would not be dispersed if you were not signed up by a certain date
That was apparently repealed in 2020.
Wish it would've happened sooner. There was some issue with my school's financial aid office every freaking semester. A week before classes started, I would get a letter that all my financial aid was canceled for failing to register, and I'd have to go in and prove I had. After the 4th time, they finally took a photocopy of my registration and had me sign an affidavit and appended it to my file.
i did not know that, thank you for letting me know, it's good that they repealed that, for my area it wouldn't have made a difference for myself registering as our high school had all of the males do it as part of a civics class.
I wouldn't put it past the Republican party to bring conscription to the table. Probably with all kinds of exceptions and loopholes to either keep their own kids out of it entirely or guarantee cush domestic desk jobs to show how patriotic they are. Everybody else gets to line up with a rifle.
Edit: Well, while I was baselessly speculating, this happened to come up on Lemmy: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/06/trump-world-mandatory-military-service-washington-post/
And with extra psychological torture to the undesirables, and will be sold to their voting base as "antidote to the LGBTQ+ movement".
It would be disastrous for Republicans. Independents and moderates would be furious
Yeah, honestly as long as we aren't willing to change things in a meaningful way, this is somewhat nice. It's like voter registration. It should be automatic (assuming it's required anyway). Sadly we are more likely to make draft registration automatic before voter registration.
Anything that actually required a draft would result in a nuclear exchange before the draft could be called.
If there is a legitimate reason for a draft, a draft may not be necessary anyway. Unless the enemy is offering a peaceful arrangement to everyone they meet, or there's no way to get your family to safety, I think most people would willingly fight.
Fully automated luxury war slavery
Fuck the draft. Dodge the draft.
If you can dodge a draft, you can dodge a ball
Apparently if you have "bone spurs" it's enough to get you out, just don't forget what foot you said you had them in.
Frag your CO before they even ship you out.
Seems like a pretty good Common Sense legislation really. You already have to register by law so making it automatic would be easier for all of us and avoid anyone getting in trouble for something stupid. I don't see a downside to this. I would like to see it apply to voting registration too however.
Haha good one...voting registration is not exactly in vogue these days.
Well, voting registration as it's implemented in America isn't exactly in vogue. As in "oh, you just need to get an ID to vote from now on." And people without ID need to do some extra paperwork and the office is open 5 minutes every other week, just go through the door located behind the acid moat and bear traps.
Over here in Finland: Government has a comprehensive record of citizens, they know where everyone lives and who's eligible to vote. So they send you a letter. "Here's how to do the advance voting, here's the polling location you need to go to on election day, Also here's how to draw the numbers, so this will be less confusing. Just bring this notice card with you. And an ID. If you don't have an ID, visit the police station and they'll give you one for free."
In Italy, you have to travel to whatever city you have residence in to vote. A lot of (mostly progressive) people have to fly across the country to cast their vote, apparently it sucks for them
I'm for this. Don't vote for war mongers when you or your kids or grandkids could be drafted for war.
Unfortunately there are no non-warmonger candidates in r or d and voting third party is a vote for trump so I guess we're all fucked amiright
Registration is already required,and has been for decades. This only automates the thing so people aren't breaking the law. Super simple stuff.
So I'm not sure what your point is?
That I'm pro this. That is the point. I can be pro something that is already the law and be pro things that increase the automation of it.
War monger kids and grandkids finagle indefinite deferments.
Technically, the USA already required you to sign up for the draft right around the time you received your Social Security Card. The draft has not been used since 1973 and earlier. So this basically has no adverse effect. Even if a draft happened all the same people who would have been drafted before will be drafted now.
You're required to sign up within 30 days of your 18th birthday. You should have (well your parents anyway) a social security card within the first year of your life, strange outliers aside.
It's still technically a crime knowingly not registering, with a $250k fine, even if it hasn't been prosecuted in decades.
It also bars you from federal government jobs, many federal programs, and grants. Until 2020, it also barred any federal financial aid for education, but that's changed now.
You should have a Social Security Number when you are born as a citizen of the USA. You register for your card when you turn 18.
Your parents received your ss card after you were born once your SSN was assigned.
You register for the draft when you register to vote.
I've definitely had my social security card since I was like, 12. Before that, my mom had it. Definitely, 100% did not get it at or around 18
American men are supposed to sign up for the draft when they turn 18, this new bill would make that an automatic process.
I think it's called selective service
Yes, it's called the selective service, but it's colloquially known as draft and that's what above was referencing
I like how you got downvoted for rehashing 16bit when all they did was repeat exactly the same thing me and the article headline said and still got upvotes.
One thing I found as I’ve gotten older is that history gets shorter and shorter the older you get.
1973 was so recent bro you have no idea. It was within one human lifetime. That’s really close. That basically just happened.
I don't really get what point you're trying to make.
They're saying "I'M OLD AND TIME'S MOVING FAST SONNY BOY"
I don't even think he's over 69 I think he just wants to say the Draft is some impending doom we should be worried about, but at this point if a draft occurs it will probably be for something pretty important.
If it's important draft everyone then. Not just the men
Sure, sounds good.
Your sense of time is too short is what's being said.
I'm sorry I don't measure recent events in a span of a hundred years.
Trading bodily autonomy for voting isn't right, especially when half the country is not only exempt but fights any attempt to make it more equal.
Defending only yourself isn't right, especially when you want all the benefits with none of the costs.
Men are the only ones paying this cost in the US
Again, there hasn't been a draft in 51 years, all of our current armed forces are volunteers and about a fifth of them are women. If you want to extend the draft that is fine but it sounded more like you were opposed to the draft entirely.
Kinda a nothing burger really. The military doesn't want conscripts unless there's an existential threat to the country.
So there's two scenarios:
Option 2 is preferable since it eliminates the cost of a program that will likely never be used again. But it still doesn't eliminate the possibility of a draft since if the country were under an existential threat in the future, legislation can be passed to bring it back. So Option 2 isn't effectively different from Option 1, other than the cost savings.
As it is, selective service is basically just a political talking point, and a way to "own the libs" or whatever. The best way to argue against it is to make an argument around the cost of a program that doesn't really accomplish anything. But the libs take the bait and argue about not wanting to be drafted, which isn't wrong, but that makes the libs look weak in the eyes of many, and it allows Republicans get to make hay about their opposition being weak.
Something tells me fragging (the original kind) might have a chance of becoming de rigueur again.
https://centeronconscience.org/
https://centeronconscience.org/guide-for-co-military/
https://www.aclu.org/issues/free-speech/conscientious-objectors
I wish they would institute another draft. Whatever party was behind it would be gone inside of the decade.
That would be nice. It is rather demeaning to sign a paper promising to die for your country when needed, in order to get voting privileges.
This will help bring down Inflation!
I was given a draft card with my financial aid package for undergrad.
Applying for FAFSA was a required part of the application process for public universities and most private ones, meaning that nearly all amabs applying for college were automatically enrolled by this process…
until they simplified FAFSA in 2020, which I just learned about when acquiring the link above as a citation.
This bill would reinstate and expand automatic enrollment to amabs who don’t need FAFSA or who don’t want to go to college.
So they are trying to change the conditions for automatic enrollment from “has a penis and wants to go to college” (precovid) to just “has a penis”.
Naw I'm good, thanks.
I know I'm not the smartest fork in the kitchen, but how are they able to just pass this when it should be something we get to vote on?
I mean if you wanna argue that that is the way it should work, I guess we could have that conversation.
(Way too many people I know won't keep themselves informed enough to vote on representatives, let alone understanding every individual bill well enough to vote on those.)
But if you're under the impression that that is how it currently works, I guess all I can really do is recommend you take a civics class or something cause that's wild lmao
Prove to me right now that the average congressional rep knows everything they vote on as much as they should.
Prove to you a thing you just made up that nobody said?
I'm go with nah.
Fine don't. Continue to believe that Moscow Mitch is better informed and makes wiser decisions than a well read 15 year old.
The US is a representative democracy, not a direct democracy. You elect representatives to represent your interests. Or these days, you elect representatives to not represent the other people you don't like.
Thanks for the reply that helped :)
United States of Israel
Now that everyone is fat and 4 👀👁️👀 eyes, those are not excuses. When I was 18 I was not even close to being fit to serve. I wear glasses and I wasn't athletic.
So figure out the way guys! Trump had to take bone spurs! I'm sure you guys can come up with something! After all, how can you serve the Chinese overlords with war wounds right?
I mean they could take the Israel approach and exterminate us. Sorry too busy with my Ps7 Nintendo switcharoo. I think that if worse comes to worse I rather go than send my kids. I've had an okay life and my arthritis is starting to hurt. I think the Republicans are hard at work on preventing access to arthritis medication probably. So maybe I could just do my thing in China. Right? Defend our way of living. I want my kids to enjoy the freedoms I had. So I would fight for that now that I'm old and fucked up. Then the kids can join in later like the ruzzians did. They basically sent all their old men out to the meat grinder. Sounds bad. But if you got arthritis and you know people who had it, you would ask for the biggest grenade you could carry. I'd take that thing like a football right into a Chinese operations building or something. I mean, if they were evil and such according to the fear mongering politicians and if I indeed had my arthritis going uncontrolled. So far it's just an elbow and a pinky.
What was the question again? Get off my lawn hooligans!
If I am ever drafted (Unlikely due to my shoulder, colorblindness, various mental health things) I will just start saying "I'm going to tell the enemy where my group is and sabotage equipment. I am a liability, you don't want me there. If you put me with radio, I will shoot that radio. If you put me in cooking, I will spill the beans. If you give me a gun, it's not going to be used at the enemy."
Will I? Probably not. But talk is cheap and I don't think a military group wants someone who publicly stated "I will commit treason and aid the enemy."
Good way to end up in an internment camp under suspicion of sedition.
Better than shooting someone in cold blood because "murder is valid because we said it was war time." I'd rather be in jail than a murderer, I don't need to add PTSD when my brain is already fucked up.
You could just be a conscientious objector...
I am, and they wouldn't care in a draft. I'm a suicidal weirdo who refuses to harm anyone, I barely have the will power to harm myself, let alone others stuck in similar situations.
I just will say anything to get out of service of a war.
Apart from "I'm a conscientious objector" apparently. You have that right.
I'm going to say it. I was trying to be funny on the internet. I apologize.
Because the military has shown how fond of them they are even when they are truly heroes aka Desmond Doss' story.....
It sounds like you really don't want the military to be fond of you anyway. Conscientious objector would be the legal route to ensure you did not go to war.
You’re not wrong.
It’s better to just tell them you’re suicidal. Not only will they take away any weapons from you, they will usher you out faster than you can blink.
Unless you're already in, in which case they'll put you on a mental health hold for a year or two, in the worst possible conditions, before kicking you out on your ass.
But if you’re in basic they will get you out fast and not bother with you.
You could just dress up in women's clothes.
Didn't really work for Corporal Klinger.