Superman is such a single note character that the good things that came out of his existence can all be counted on one hand. I get that he was foundational to the concept of superheros, but it shows in this day and age.
I will say the monologue in justice league while he's slapping around Darkside is immaculate though.
The best thing to come from Superman is Lex Luther. No villain can go toe to toe with Supes, except maybe Doomsday, but does he really count as a villain? Mindless kill machine. Anyway, Lex has to beat Superman who can punch him into mist, or roast him by looking at him too hard, or literally blow him to the moon. How do you write a villain to counter that? By making them cunning and lovable to the public so that if Superman does any of those things, the public turns against him. Superman’s weakness isn’t only kryptonite, he craves social acceptance, if he didn’t he would just punch his way into being in charge and dare anyone to stop him. Lex gets how razor thin that edge is and takes full advantage.
Lex can beat Superman, but not homelander
Homelander has the additional power of corpo-political PR
"The only reason anyone is good is because they want to be seen and thought of as good."
Pure narcissism.
Eh, Batman is exactly as single-note as Superman is.
Superman requires very good writing from someone who understands what to do with the character.
I'm pretty excited to see what Gunn does with him, tbh.
That's a fair comparison. Superman is powerful enough to always make the right choice, even when it's hard. The appeal comes from Superman discovering and making the right choice.
Batman makes the necessary choice (apart from killing), which isn't always the right choice. The appeal comes from stories where Batman walks the line between criminal vigilante and hero who saves the day.
Yeah but batman is literally just as crazy as the villains he fights. Gotham is just glad he has a weird justice obsession instead of a weird clown or scarecrow kink. That's more interesting than superman just being perfect at everything. I've been reading through "Alan Moore in the DC universe" and like, each of the superman stories are just so one note. He is good at everything, until a random mcguffin comes up and then another charcter comes along to pick it off the ground, and then Supes beats up whoever brought the evil space flower to him in the first place.
I'll be intrigued to see how Gunn handles him too, but in a life time of reading comics the only superman stories I found interesting was elseworld stuff red son and kingdom come where they treat him as a concept more than a charcter.
Main universe or any of the movies? Meh.
Well, it can't be any worse than Synder's "Objectiman."
I disagree. Superman has as much depth as Batman. He's just more morally pure, and people mistake "dark" for "complex".
I'd argue Batman's equally bad, it's interesting that he's not super by the definition everyone wide uses, but trauma an only carry you so far
Superman has had its good moments like the world made of cardboard scene. Nowadays I think saitama from one punch man makes for a better all powerful hero as the narrative really focuses more on the consiquences of that power on himself and the people around him rather than just having him save the day over and over.
They wrote themselves into a corner making him that strong.
Mickey Mouse. Like what is even the appeal? Is there anyone who actually likes Mickey Mouse?
That fucking mouse is absolutely everywhere but it's the most boring nonsense character to ever exist.
Like most really early animated characters, Mickey Mouse was a lot of things over a long period of time. And as far as American animation goes, Mickey Mouse has been a staple for the childhood of literally every generation. Younger millennials and zoomers grew up on Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. Children in decades prior watched Mickey be a musketeer in one short and starving due to poverty in the next.
So while the rough edges of the character have been sanded down over time, he's still very much a plucky, brave, kind, and helpful protagonist in most of the media he's in.
Which to your average adult viewer means... he's a bland and uninteresting character.
That said, he's still an icon of animation as a whole, and most things with Mickey in them are doing some new and novel something (design, production pipeline, whatever) that pushes the whole industry forward in some way.
I'm curious, I feel like I haven't seen mickey in anything flagship Disney in an extremely long time, what's his latest work?
as someone who is in their mid 30s… Kingdom Hearts? And I really only played the first one where’s he’s (if I remember correctly) just kinda talked about and teased at the end. I would be really shocked if anyone had any actual feelings toward him as a character in any meaningful way other than him being a mascot. Did he even win a sportsball recently?
At this point I'm not sure what's newest, since my kid just watches everything streaming.
I do have to say the newer 2D animated shorts, The Wonderful World of Mickey Mouse, are a fantastic return to form.
Exactly. Donald Duck is an infinitely superior character.
Rich Evans once said of Who Framed Roger Rabbit: "Bugs Bunny gave Eddie Valiant the spare tire (instead of a spare parachute) because Mickey Mouse would never do anything funny."
I think Mickey just serves as a stand-in for Disney in general
I mean... He was literally the first animated character ever to have synced audio with the visuals.
So they had 100 years to develop the character and this is what we got?
I like how he fucks up anyone stupid enough to fuck with him. How does The Mouse's dick taste, DeSantis?
Harry Potter. People often talk about a "golden age" of JK Rowling, and I think to myself, what golden age? Harry Potter, both the character and the books, are written like a hyperinflated Cinderella, complete with an attempt at discriminatory apologetics that would make CS Lewis say "you okay bro?"
Also, Luke Skywalker. People hate Anakin for being whiny and weak and Rey for being a Mary Sue, but Luke is both and nobody complains.
Luke had to actually train and failed when he fought his main, more experienced villain for the first time. Then he went back and did more training off screen. I think that makes him less a Mary Sue. He's definitely whiny, though.
Only in the beginning. Part of the excellence of the OT was seeing him grow from whiny kid to self-confident man.
He's whiny in just barely enough lines to establish that he's still a bit naive, but I would not consider him an overall whiny character, even in the vacuum of episode 4, he is not constantly bitching and dodging his responsibility once its importance is established.
Its probably the best way they could've utilized whininess
It helped that the actor who played Luke was appealing and non-threatening, with a bowl cut. He looked like a wide-eyed kid.
True, true. It''s a good coming of age story in that way. You don't see him grow up physically, but in maturity, confidence, wisdom, and least importantly, ironically enough, power. I say least importantly, because it's the growing in wisdom that helps him defeat the Emperor in the end, not his cool force powers (although that does make the movies more fun to watch).
You have to descend into Hell and rescue your father, man! -Jordan Peterson
Additionally, and probably most importantly, Luke actually isn't strong enough to defeat the emperor at the end. He losses. However, he wins over his father and that's what turns the tide.
Similarly, while Anikan has some mary sue moments, he has a far share of losses (chase for Padme's would be assassin, count doku fight, Obi-Wan fight, etc.)
I think the only time Rey "losses" a battle is in force awakens when she gets captured (but even after being captured she overpowers Ben almost immediately).
She gets a ghost cheer squad. I guess that helps her to be relatable. As @RIPandTERROR@sh.itjust.works put it, bag of fucking sand.
Just an FYI incase they weren't typos but the word you're after in the first and last paragraph is 'loses'; the one in the second para is correct.
Haha, thanks! I always mess those words up.
Yeah, but he used to bullseye womp rats in his T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters.
THIS
As much as I enjoy that franchise I agree with you. For years I kept hearing 'it's better in the books', I remember specifically people saying that about the organization that helps dobbie and his people. Fuggin, I read the books as an adult and it's barely expanded on it at all, they just have more scenes about the organization but it isn't ever truly relevant beyond explaining why Hermione does what she does as an adult.
It's a charming little story that matured with readers and got a decent adaptation that led it to explode. Lots of luck to get to where it's at.
I would love to see a wandering inn adaptation instead.
All superheroes.
One-trick ponies, with one characteristic only (strong, loyal, fast, ...)
So flat and boooring.
Harry fucking potter. What an absolute bag of sand.
Okay Malfoy
He’s such a whiner!!!
Astarion from BG3. I can understand why people like him. I personally do not and generally never used him in the party because I didn't want to hear him be annoyed yet again I was helping people.
Astarion is particularly annoying in Act 1 for some reason, with 99% of his reactions just being him hating anything that is remotely positive. His reactions (and character in general) in the following acts is a lot more fleshed out and varied.
His guard is up for the first act because he is traveling with new people.the change is due to warming up to the characters.
Shadowheart does this in the first act too, and combined they are really annoying as a combo but I found both to be fine individually.
Even with her guard up, Shadowheart's character is still more varied. Her reactions are more mixed and you can really see her bluntness and pragmatism come through. Her responses vary from indifference, apathy, rudeness, hostility, and moments of care and tenderness. Astarion in Act 1 is just an asshole all the time. I also feel that some of his reactions clash with his character and don't make sense. Don't get me wrong; I think he's a good character but I can also see why so many want nothing to do with him.
The thing is, Viconia and ::: spoiler Throne of Bhaal spoilers
Sarevok
:::
had similar arcs in the previous games but I never got annoyed enough to not want them in my party. A character can be disagreeable without being insufferable.
I wasn't a fan of Astarion either. Though to be fair, I'm never a fan of self-centered characters or evil runs. I don't get the appeal.
It was the same for me with the guy with the hamster in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. He's a favourite to everyone, to me he was just an annoying idiot.
I think he's endearing. But I was probably about 12 when I first played BG1, and the dumb-but-good-hearted warrior with the world's only miniature giant space hamster was comedic gold for me at that age.
Minsc is also relatively weak compared to other potential party members.
Minsc is getting a big punch up for the nostalgia factor. He's a beloved character from the original games and has been featured in other D&D stories.
He was much better written in those games, I think
I killed him almost immediately after those first few nights in camp. I then left Shadowheart there to rot with his corpse. I never understand the mass appeal towards those two.
I found Shart less annoyed by altruism, and there are story reasons too. Astarion's just an ass.
I didn't mind Shadowheart as much but she sure has her moments!
I think as the game progresses, you get to see why Astarion is so eager to act in his own interests. However, his backstory really only justifies half of his refusal to help people. The other half of his whining feels antithetical to his own situation, but perhaps that's just because he doesn't fully acknowledge his newfound freedoms until Act 2.
Yeah but you gotta have a rogue in the party
My bard pc got most things done that a rogue did!
...sometimes with a smidge of savescumming when a lock was particularly rude.
That's when you ask the barbarian to give it a go.
Hey Withers, here's 100 gold to turn a better character into whatever role I need.
Jim from the US version of The Office.
I think he's liked more because he's relatable, rather than he's an interesting character. Personally, I think his pranks on Dwight are amusing, but everything else about him is nothing special.
I can't help but feel that Dwight would be a much better friend to have than Jim.
Dwight would be a much more loyal friend for sure, and far less likely to steal your girl. But these high intelligence low wisdom friends are exhausting. Especially when they make a mistake, because they’re so book smart they couldn’t possibly be wrong. Tons of unwanted advice on subjects they’ve only read about. But they’ll always be first to arrive when you need help moving. It’s almost impossible for you to be as good a friend in return, not that it’s required, but I feel bad when it’s not even. And then you’re just driving around one day chatting with them in the passenger seat and they pull out the ninja star they bought at the gas station and want you to think it’s as cool as they do. I just don’t know how to handle Dwight friends.
Not that I’m suggesting that I’m smart, but I really felt this comment to my core. I feel like people that know me may look at me like I’m a “Dwight Friend”, and I’ve long realized this (though never have I articulated it quite as well as you). It’s a real confidence killer when you realize this is how you’re viewed. But yes, if someone called needing help, I would be there in a heartbeat.
If it helps, in pretty much every friendship, one of you will be the Dwight. I have Dwight friends, and I am the Dwight to other friends. If you feel like you’re always the Dwight, you just haven’t found your Dwight yet. He’s out there and he’s patient.
You take that back! You're just jealous that you're not Big Tuna. /s
I've been watching some Friends here and there (a bit late to the game) and I absolutely cannot stand Rachel.
Ross is the one that drives me insane. Literally every other person demonstrates some sort of growth over the 10 years the show takes place, but Ross is pretty much exactly the same.
For me, Rachel starts out annoying but gets more likeable through the seasons.
I was watching a few on a road trip and happened to catch them when Rachel was rejecting Joey, then demanding Ross not date and stay with her. She was just awful in every episode I saw.
so many. jesus, allah, jehova, it goes on and on.
Sephiroth. His look is basically the most generic bishy anime character you can make, his entire backstory can be boiled down to "mommy issues" and his motivations are the standard villain "destroy world/become god". He's just so bland.
Yeah but he got a bitchin soundtrack
Playing Kingdom Hearts without knowing who he was and having him show up as a secret boss was wild
Agreed. And Kefka was way cooler anyway.
(I firmly believe most people gush over FF7 so much only because it was their first exposure to a mainstream console RPG in non-Japanese circles. FF7 as a whole was a fairly meh entry into the series anyway, if you ask me.)
Not only did Kefka have real style, twisted though it may be, he also for all intents and purposes actually managed to win. He fractured the world, scattered the heroes, built his goddamned tower, and was lording it all over everybody with a penthouse view. He didn't have angst; he was just nuts. It was frankly a complete fluke that he got the shit whacked out of him by a little girl with a paintbrush, a 8x per round attacking Moogle with Genji gloves, a senior citizen, and a mime.
The Joker.
I really don't get the obsession with overusing the Joker when most of Barman's other rogue gallery members are much more interesting. The worst of it is during "The Batman Who Laughs", because now you have both the regular Joker and "what if Batman became Joker" running around. And then, as if it couldn't get any more ridiculous,
::: spoiler spoiler
The Batman who Laughs gets Dr. Manhattan's powers in a groan-worthy way which is like, not how Dr. Manhattan works at all just so they can fit more Joker into the story.
:::
And I think most people will agree by now that Harley Quinn is a lot better of a character after she's done being Joker's sidekick.
The Doctor.
We get it. You wish a dashing eccentric gentleman with an English accent will appear out of the blue and whisk you away from your situation to a life of adventure. But it's not going to happen, sweetheart.
It doesn't help that Doctor Who has always been crap sci-fi, but gets a free ride due to having such a long history stretching back to before anyone knew any better. The series as a whole is one of those I find also dragged down by a subsection of rabid insufferable fans, at least the modern incarnations, right up there with Rick and Morty and Supernatural. (I see I already kicked the beehive.)
I think the sci-fi is not crap. But it is not appealing to everyone. DW remains a children's show, always has been. It should be viewed as such, just like Star Wars is.
TBH, I still watch it, even though it peaked seasons 4 - 6, then went down and down and down. I think nostalgia has got a hold of me because the new season wouldn't wouldn't get hooked to it if I were my first time watching it.
Upvoted for a hot take!
I never watched the old stuff. I enjoyed the campy and quirky scifi romp that peaked with the 10/11 doctors, but there are certainly long stretches of pretty dull episodes, I admit. There are many episodes that I just love and tried to make note of through my last watch through.
It doesn't take itself too seriously and I like that. It's also like gateway scifi for people not normally too into the genre.
Who hurt you?
I thought you were referring to The Doctor from Star Trek: Voyager and was about to pitch a fit but, yeah—fuck Whom’st Doctor Doth Darken Mine Teleboothe
Forsooth, yon apothecary of tyme y aether inhabit woman's frame. Waxes tedious.
I never got the hype with Doctor Who in general, but I can see the appeal of the character.
Dr Who has had some genuinely good episodes and plot lines, nowadays though it does mostly seem to be re-hashing its own old plot lines but in a shorter and less well executed form or just trying to cram as many current issues into an episode as possible. Its basically suffering the same fate as the simpsons.
Upvoted, just to stir stuff up.
For me it was Rose. She was an alright companion but far from the best and it annoyed me how much importance she had to everything with all her storylines.
Deadpool
I can understand liking him as a 10 year old
Bu the movie is rated r
It's an easy movie to watch, which makes it enjoyable for me. Everything else in life takes a lot of energy, so when I want to watch a movie over doing something else, I just want something that I can zone out to.
Same reason I watch a Will Ferrell movie and like them (like the one where he voiced a dog)
Edward Cullen
First, imagine you're a horny 13 year old girl. Then you'll get the appeal.
Eww, no thanks.
I’ve had friends who are girls who like it and my gf who likes it but also thinks it’s weird describe it like this
To muscly older women fighting over you
And ya know when they explain it like that, I get it
When I got into Tsukihime I realized it was just Twilight for male 20 somethings, and that's when I finally understood
Nein. So skinny, no job, lives with his friends.
I hated it when I was just a 13 yo girl.
The vampire was an angry, soulless piece of the shit who looks and acts like a serial killer.
The woman was a daft cow who always had this dumb look in here eyes like a deer in headlights.
Match made in hell.
I rewatched the first one recently with my girlfriend and God is Edward a creep when seen through non teen girl eyes. Dudes a literal pedo creep but he's handsome and broken so it's ok.
I don't understand how the character couldn't be viewed as a creep. Is this some sort of conditioning or does it trigger appeasement behaviour?
Many others too but I hardly watch any movies or tv series so no one else comes to mind
John wick is supposed to be a shallow character. A nobody who is surprisingly a goat assassin. The surprising simplicity of the first movie is exactly what it's supposed to be. Man mad cuz wife dead and brat crimelord son kills dog gets revenge.
Just like another Keanu movie that there shouldn't have been sequels to the story suffers if the perspective gets expanded. Prison break too, forcing follow ups means the story gets more complex whilst the simplicity is it's main draw.
Keanu sommes un those roles a he is a bit aloof and emotionally detached. Somehow that suits both roles, but there isn't much there to flesh out a longer story.
Snape
Yeah....I want to like him and he's got more character development than any other, but yeah. So your high school crush didn't "get" your personality disorder and then slipped away. That's what happens in high school. But then he goes back to teach AND LIVE at his old high school and never moves on? Snape my man...marry Denise from your gym and get over it. Get a job somewhere else, join a pickleball league or somethin.
Everyone on Rick and Morty.
They're not supposed to be likeable, they're supposed to be entertaining.
I find they're neither.
K
I've got three questions for you.
Did you not grow up watching cartoons?
Do you find the science fiction based topics to be too much?
Do you believe there shouldn't be cartoons geared towards adults?
If you answered yes to all of these:
::: spoiler spoiler
Who hurt you?
:::
I grew up watching cartoons, and still do.
I'm an avid scifi, horror, and speculative fiction reader/watcher.
There absolutely should be animations geared toward adults.
I don't like Rick and Morty. I think it's dumb, self obsessed, drivel. I think it's writing style is the literary equivalent of pumpkin spice latte. No one hurt me, I just don't like it and I don't understand why people do. I answered a question. I didn't tell people to not watch it.
Understandable. Thanks for replying.
Now... what are some of your favorite new sci-fi movies? =)
It's been more books recently.
We just did Snowcrash, which has parts that aged poorly, but over all was a fun read. That leads to the old movie Pontypool (Snowcrash is in a shot in that that's an obvious plant- both had similar themes). That lead to Pontypool Changes Everything a book that, try as I did, I could not get through. But the movie and BBC radio drama are both great.
We're doing Ubik by Philip K Dick right now, and I'm enjoying that a lot. I've read a fair bit of his stuff but missed this one. I tend to binge authors so I imagine I'll do a few more from him.
Late last year I did about everything from Scott Meyers. The Magic 2.0 books are deff for a younger audience but were fun in their own way.
I tried to do the Murderbot series recently, but it missed it's mark with me. I didn't not like them and I can see goung back to give them a second try maybe in the fall.
The Duck and Cover series was heavily thrown at me through ads so I gave that a go. It deff has its moments but I think there's underlying difference of opinion between me and the author. I have no proof of this, it's just kind of a feeling. Not bad books, funny and clever in spots.
John Scalzi and Dennis E. Taylor are two guys I get everything from as soon as something new drops.
And recently a buddy got me to watch Ravenous. An old cannibalistic, period piece in the Spanish American War era with a good dose of homoeroticisim thrown in. Deff highly recommend watching that.
Not op, but i dont care much for the show myself either. I used to, when it was new and something different, but I believe I have grown past the pseudointellectual, but actual college humor. It just hits different these days
I actually agree. I started losing interest in the show during season 5 (2021). But like how GoT seasons went, I don't write the show off as a loss because the last few seasons weren't strong hitters.
The little Prince is overrated imo.
Boo and humbug.
How is the little prince overrated?
He's not some huge pop icon.
Oh unless, is he some huge pop icon where you're from?
It was a global success (translated into over 500 languages and has sold over 140 million copies). That doesn't seem like much compared modern movies or TV shows, but for a book those are really good numbers. Dr. Seuss sold over 600 million books but that's spread over 60 different titles. Could be a generational thing. I remember seeing "The Little Prince" in a lot of homes in the 80s.
I'm curious what they think is overrated about the little Prince.
Me, too. It's an interesting choice.
Kelsier
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler
I liked him in Mistborn at least. After that, well. Jury’s out. :::
While I enjoy him, I get this one. He is a hero who would be the villain in any other story, so if you see through him he can be pretty unpalatable.
::: spoiler [Secret History]
He will make a great villain. (Or already is from one series perspective)
Depends if you like your morally gray characters I guess.
:::
Heads up bud, your spoiler tags didn't work!
Working now? They work in both Voyager and the default web UI, can't do much better than that?
That user may be using Sync, which last time I checked only supports the reddit style spoilers.
Ah, I am! The other users spoiler tag was fine so I just assumed something was up, had no idea sync didn't support the tag.
No harm done though, I've already read the whole series a couple of times.
There are a few companions in Mass Effect that seem to inspire a way stronger reaction from other fans and I don't totally get it. Like, I like Thane, and I'm sad about what happens to him, but some people are SO into him and I don't get it. I also love Tali and restarted my first nearly complete playthrough when I realized I couldn't save her and Legion, but there are fans who are full on obsessed. Then again, my love for Garrus can't be contained, so I'm sure some people don't get that.
At least we can all agree that Ashley and Kaiden are the worst, right?
John Constantine. The snarky smartass that has the most plot armor of any character.
Long John Silver
Aside from Tim Curry's rendition in Muppet Treasure Island. Pure gold.
Arrrr.
Peppa Pig
Edward Kenway from Assassin's Creed 4. The whole game actually is extremely overrated. I had a hard time finishing that game. I rather play 3 or even Unity.
I couldn't care less about Superman.
Superman is such a single note character that the good things that came out of his existence can all be counted on one hand. I get that he was foundational to the concept of superheros, but it shows in this day and age.
I will say the monologue in justice league while he's slapping around Darkside is immaculate though.
The best thing to come from Superman is Lex Luther. No villain can go toe to toe with Supes, except maybe Doomsday, but does he really count as a villain? Mindless kill machine. Anyway, Lex has to beat Superman who can punch him into mist, or roast him by looking at him too hard, or literally blow him to the moon. How do you write a villain to counter that? By making them cunning and lovable to the public so that if Superman does any of those things, the public turns against him. Superman’s weakness isn’t only kryptonite, he craves social acceptance, if he didn’t he would just punch his way into being in charge and dare anyone to stop him. Lex gets how razor thin that edge is and takes full advantage.
Lex can beat Superman, but not homelander
Homelander has the additional power of corpo-political PR
"The only reason anyone is good is because they want to be seen and thought of as good."
Pure narcissism.
Eh, Batman is exactly as single-note as Superman is.
Superman requires very good writing from someone who understands what to do with the character.
I'm pretty excited to see what Gunn does with him, tbh.
That's a fair comparison. Superman is powerful enough to always make the right choice, even when it's hard. The appeal comes from Superman discovering and making the right choice.
Batman makes the necessary choice (apart from killing), which isn't always the right choice. The appeal comes from stories where Batman walks the line between criminal vigilante and hero who saves the day.
Yeah but batman is literally just as crazy as the villains he fights. Gotham is just glad he has a weird justice obsession instead of a weird clown or scarecrow kink. That's more interesting than superman just being perfect at everything. I've been reading through "Alan Moore in the DC universe" and like, each of the superman stories are just so one note. He is good at everything, until a random mcguffin comes up and then another charcter comes along to pick it off the ground, and then Supes beats up whoever brought the evil space flower to him in the first place.
I'll be intrigued to see how Gunn handles him too, but in a life time of reading comics the only superman stories I found interesting was elseworld stuff red son and kingdom come where they treat him as a concept more than a charcter.
Main universe or any of the movies? Meh.
Well, it can't be any worse than Synder's "Objectiman."
I disagree. Superman has as much depth as Batman. He's just more morally pure, and people mistake "dark" for "complex".
I'd argue Batman's equally bad, it's interesting that he's not super by the definition everyone wide uses, but trauma an only carry you so far
There's an entire song about this.
Superman has had its good moments like the world made of cardboard scene. Nowadays I think saitama from one punch man makes for a better all powerful hero as the narrative really focuses more on the consiquences of that power on himself and the people around him rather than just having him save the day over and over.
They wrote themselves into a corner making him that strong.
Mickey Mouse. Like what is even the appeal? Is there anyone who actually likes Mickey Mouse?
That fucking mouse is absolutely everywhere but it's the most boring nonsense character to ever exist.
Like most really early animated characters, Mickey Mouse was a lot of things over a long period of time. And as far as American animation goes, Mickey Mouse has been a staple for the childhood of literally every generation. Younger millennials and zoomers grew up on Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. Children in decades prior watched Mickey be a musketeer in one short and starving due to poverty in the next.
So while the rough edges of the character have been sanded down over time, he's still very much a plucky, brave, kind, and helpful protagonist in most of the media he's in.
Which to your average adult viewer means... he's a bland and uninteresting character.
That said, he's still an icon of animation as a whole, and most things with Mickey in them are doing some new and novel something (design, production pipeline, whatever) that pushes the whole industry forward in some way.
I'm curious, I feel like I haven't seen mickey in anything flagship Disney in an extremely long time, what's his latest work?
as someone who is in their mid 30s… Kingdom Hearts? And I really only played the first one where’s he’s (if I remember correctly) just kinda talked about and teased at the end. I would be really shocked if anyone had any actual feelings toward him as a character in any meaningful way other than him being a mascot. Did he even win a sportsball recently?
https://youtu.be/7_6mpKet-KI?feature=shared
At this point I'm not sure what's newest, since my kid just watches everything streaming.
I do have to say the newer 2D animated shorts, The Wonderful World of Mickey Mouse, are a fantastic return to form.
Exactly. Donald Duck is an infinitely superior character.
Rich Evans once said of Who Framed Roger Rabbit: "Bugs Bunny gave Eddie Valiant the spare tire (instead of a spare parachute) because Mickey Mouse would never do anything funny."
I think Mickey just serves as a stand-in for Disney in general
I mean... He was literally the first animated character ever to have synced audio with the visuals.
So they had 100 years to develop the character and this is what we got?
I like how he fucks up anyone stupid enough to fuck with him. How does The Mouse's dick taste, DeSantis?
Harry Potter. People often talk about a "golden age" of JK Rowling, and I think to myself, what golden age? Harry Potter, both the character and the books, are written like a hyperinflated Cinderella, complete with an attempt at discriminatory apologetics that would make CS Lewis say "you okay bro?"
Also, Luke Skywalker. People hate Anakin for being whiny and weak and Rey for being a Mary Sue, but Luke is both and nobody complains.
Luke had to actually train and failed when he fought his main, more experienced villain for the first time. Then he went back and did more training off screen. I think that makes him less a Mary Sue. He's definitely whiny, though.
Only in the beginning. Part of the excellence of the OT was seeing him grow from whiny kid to self-confident man.
He's whiny in just barely enough lines to establish that he's still a bit naive, but I would not consider him an overall whiny character, even in the vacuum of episode 4, he is not constantly bitching and dodging his responsibility once its importance is established.
Its probably the best way they could've utilized whininess
It helped that the actor who played Luke was appealing and non-threatening, with a bowl cut. He looked like a wide-eyed kid.
True, true. It''s a good coming of age story in that way. You don't see him grow up physically, but in maturity, confidence, wisdom, and least importantly, ironically enough, power. I say least importantly, because it's the growing in wisdom that helps him defeat the Emperor in the end, not his cool force powers (although that does make the movies more fun to watch).
You have to descend into Hell and rescue your father, man! -Jordan Peterson
Additionally, and probably most importantly, Luke actually isn't strong enough to defeat the emperor at the end. He losses. However, he wins over his father and that's what turns the tide.
Similarly, while Anikan has some mary sue moments, he has a far share of losses (chase for Padme's would be assassin, count doku fight, Obi-Wan fight, etc.)
I think the only time Rey "losses" a battle is in force awakens when she gets captured (but even after being captured she overpowers Ben almost immediately).
She gets a ghost cheer squad. I guess that helps her to be relatable. As @RIPandTERROR@sh.itjust.works put it, bag of fucking sand.
Just an FYI incase they weren't typos but the word you're after in the first and last paragraph is 'loses'; the one in the second para is correct.
Haha, thanks! I always mess those words up.
Yeah, but he used to bullseye womp rats in his T-16 back home, they're not much bigger than two meters.
THIS
As much as I enjoy that franchise I agree with you. For years I kept hearing 'it's better in the books', I remember specifically people saying that about the organization that helps dobbie and his people. Fuggin, I read the books as an adult and it's barely expanded on it at all, they just have more scenes about the organization but it isn't ever truly relevant beyond explaining why Hermione does what she does as an adult.
It's a charming little story that matured with readers and got a decent adaptation that led it to explode. Lots of luck to get to where it's at.
I would love to see a wandering inn adaptation instead.
All superheroes.
One-trick ponies, with one characteristic only (strong, loyal, fast, ...)
So flat and boooring.
Harry fucking potter. What an absolute bag of sand.
Okay Malfoy
He’s such a whiner!!!
Astarion from BG3. I can understand why people like him. I personally do not and generally never used him in the party because I didn't want to hear him be annoyed yet again I was helping people.
Astarion is particularly annoying in Act 1 for some reason, with 99% of his reactions just being him hating anything that is remotely positive. His reactions (and character in general) in the following acts is a lot more fleshed out and varied.
His guard is up for the first act because he is traveling with new people.the change is due to warming up to the characters.
Shadowheart does this in the first act too, and combined they are really annoying as a combo but I found both to be fine individually.
Even with her guard up, Shadowheart's character is still more varied. Her reactions are more mixed and you can really see her bluntness and pragmatism come through. Her responses vary from indifference, apathy, rudeness, hostility, and moments of care and tenderness. Astarion in Act 1 is just an asshole all the time. I also feel that some of his reactions clash with his character and don't make sense. Don't get me wrong; I think he's a good character but I can also see why so many want nothing to do with him.
The thing is, Viconia and ::: spoiler Throne of Bhaal spoilers Sarevok ::: had similar arcs in the previous games but I never got annoyed enough to not want them in my party. A character can be disagreeable without being insufferable.
I wasn't a fan of Astarion either. Though to be fair, I'm never a fan of self-centered characters or evil runs. I don't get the appeal.
It was the same for me with the guy with the hamster in Baldur's Gate 1 and 2. He's a favourite to everyone, to me he was just an annoying idiot.
I think he's endearing. But I was probably about 12 when I first played BG1, and the dumb-but-good-hearted warrior with the world's only miniature giant space hamster was comedic gold for me at that age.
Minsc is also relatively weak compared to other potential party members.
Minsc is getting a big punch up for the nostalgia factor. He's a beloved character from the original games and has been featured in other D&D stories.
He was much better written in those games, I think
I killed him almost immediately after those first few nights in camp. I then left Shadowheart there to rot with his corpse. I never understand the mass appeal towards those two.
I found Shart less annoyed by altruism, and there are story reasons too. Astarion's just an ass.
I didn't mind Shadowheart as much but she sure has her moments!
I think as the game progresses, you get to see why Astarion is so eager to act in his own interests. However, his backstory really only justifies half of his refusal to help people. The other half of his whining feels antithetical to his own situation, but perhaps that's just because he doesn't fully acknowledge his newfound freedoms until Act 2.
Yeah but you gotta have a rogue in the party
My bard pc got most things done that a rogue did!
...sometimes with a smidge of savescumming when a lock was particularly rude.
That's when you ask the barbarian to give it a go.
Hey Withers, here's 100 gold to turn a better character into whatever role I need.
Jim from the US version of The Office.
I think he's liked more because he's relatable, rather than he's an interesting character. Personally, I think his pranks on Dwight are amusing, but everything else about him is nothing special.
I can't help but feel that Dwight would be a much better friend to have than Jim.
Dwight would be a much more loyal friend for sure, and far less likely to steal your girl. But these high intelligence low wisdom friends are exhausting. Especially when they make a mistake, because they’re so book smart they couldn’t possibly be wrong. Tons of unwanted advice on subjects they’ve only read about. But they’ll always be first to arrive when you need help moving. It’s almost impossible for you to be as good a friend in return, not that it’s required, but I feel bad when it’s not even. And then you’re just driving around one day chatting with them in the passenger seat and they pull out the ninja star they bought at the gas station and want you to think it’s as cool as they do. I just don’t know how to handle Dwight friends.
Not that I’m suggesting that I’m smart, but I really felt this comment to my core. I feel like people that know me may look at me like I’m a “Dwight Friend”, and I’ve long realized this (though never have I articulated it quite as well as you). It’s a real confidence killer when you realize this is how you’re viewed. But yes, if someone called needing help, I would be there in a heartbeat.
If it helps, in pretty much every friendship, one of you will be the Dwight. I have Dwight friends, and I am the Dwight to other friends. If you feel like you’re always the Dwight, you just haven’t found your Dwight yet. He’s out there and he’s patient.
You take that back! You're just jealous that you're not Big Tuna. /s
I've been watching some Friends here and there (a bit late to the game) and I absolutely cannot stand Rachel.
Ross is the one that drives me insane. Literally every other person demonstrates some sort of growth over the 10 years the show takes place, but Ross is pretty much exactly the same.
For me, Rachel starts out annoying but gets more likeable through the seasons.
I was watching a few on a road trip and happened to catch them when Rachel was rejecting Joey, then demanding Ross not date and stay with her. She was just awful in every episode I saw.
so many. jesus, allah, jehova, it goes on and on.
Sephiroth. His look is basically the most generic bishy anime character you can make, his entire backstory can be boiled down to "mommy issues" and his motivations are the standard villain "destroy world/become god". He's just so bland.
Yeah but he got a bitchin soundtrack
Playing Kingdom Hearts without knowing who he was and having him show up as a secret boss was wild
Agreed. And Kefka was way cooler anyway.
(I firmly believe most people gush over FF7 so much only because it was their first exposure to a mainstream console RPG in non-Japanese circles. FF7 as a whole was a fairly meh entry into the series anyway, if you ask me.)
Not only did Kefka have real style, twisted though it may be, he also for all intents and purposes actually managed to win. He fractured the world, scattered the heroes, built his goddamned tower, and was lording it all over everybody with a penthouse view. He didn't have angst; he was just nuts. It was frankly a complete fluke that he got the shit whacked out of him by a little girl with a paintbrush, a 8x per round attacking Moogle with Genji gloves, a senior citizen, and a mime.
The Joker.
I really don't get the obsession with overusing the Joker when most of Barman's other rogue gallery members are much more interesting. The worst of it is during "The Batman Who Laughs", because now you have both the regular Joker and "what if Batman became Joker" running around. And then, as if it couldn't get any more ridiculous,
::: spoiler spoiler The Batman who Laughs gets Dr. Manhattan's powers in a groan-worthy way which is like, not how Dr. Manhattan works at all just so they can fit more Joker into the story.
:::
And I think most people will agree by now that Harley Quinn is a lot better of a character after she's done being Joker's sidekick.
The Doctor.
We get it. You wish a dashing eccentric gentleman with an English accent will appear out of the blue and whisk you away from your situation to a life of adventure. But it's not going to happen, sweetheart.
It doesn't help that Doctor Who has always been crap sci-fi, but gets a free ride due to having such a long history stretching back to before anyone knew any better. The series as a whole is one of those I find also dragged down by a subsection of rabid insufferable fans, at least the modern incarnations, right up there with Rick and Morty and Supernatural. (I see I already kicked the beehive.)
I think the sci-fi is not crap. But it is not appealing to everyone. DW remains a children's show, always has been. It should be viewed as such, just like Star Wars is.
TBH, I still watch it, even though it peaked seasons 4 - 6, then went down and down and down. I think nostalgia has got a hold of me because the new season wouldn't wouldn't get hooked to it if I were my first time watching it.
Upvoted for a hot take!
I never watched the old stuff. I enjoyed the campy and quirky scifi romp that peaked with the 10/11 doctors, but there are certainly long stretches of pretty dull episodes, I admit. There are many episodes that I just love and tried to make note of through my last watch through.
It doesn't take itself too seriously and I like that. It's also like gateway scifi for people not normally too into the genre.
Who hurt you?
I thought you were referring to The Doctor from Star Trek: Voyager and was about to pitch a fit but, yeah—fuck Whom’st Doctor Doth Darken Mine Teleboothe
Forsooth, yon apothecary of tyme y aether inhabit woman's frame. Waxes tedious.
I never got the hype with Doctor Who in general, but I can see the appeal of the character.
Dr Who has had some genuinely good episodes and plot lines, nowadays though it does mostly seem to be re-hashing its own old plot lines but in a shorter and less well executed form or just trying to cram as many current issues into an episode as possible. Its basically suffering the same fate as the simpsons.
Upvoted, just to stir stuff up.
For me it was Rose. She was an alright companion but far from the best and it annoyed me how much importance she had to everything with all her storylines.
Deadpool
I can understand liking him as a 10 year old
Bu the movie is rated r
It's an easy movie to watch, which makes it enjoyable for me. Everything else in life takes a lot of energy, so when I want to watch a movie over doing something else, I just want something that I can zone out to.
Same reason I watch a Will Ferrell movie and like them (like the one where he voiced a dog)
Edward Cullen
First, imagine you're a horny 13 year old girl. Then you'll get the appeal.
Eww, no thanks.
I’ve had friends who are girls who like it and my gf who likes it but also thinks it’s weird describe it like this
To muscly older women fighting over you
And ya know when they explain it like that, I get it
When I got into Tsukihime I realized it was just Twilight for male 20 somethings, and that's when I finally understood
Nein. So skinny, no job, lives with his friends.
I hated it when I was just a 13 yo girl.
The vampire was an angry, soulless piece of the shit who looks and acts like a serial killer.
The woman was a daft cow who always had this dumb look in here eyes like a deer in headlights.
Match made in hell.
I rewatched the first one recently with my girlfriend and God is Edward a creep when seen through non teen girl eyes. Dudes a literal pedo creep but he's handsome and broken so it's ok.
I don't understand how the character couldn't be viewed as a creep. Is this some sort of conditioning or does it trigger appeasement behaviour?
Do I have the video for you! https://youtu.be/bqloPw5wp48?si=GK_toc-qlIYNtRf6
Yes, it is worth the 3 hour watch time.
John Wick
Many others too but I hardly watch any movies or tv series so no one else comes to mind
John wick is supposed to be a shallow character. A nobody who is surprisingly a goat assassin. The surprising simplicity of the first movie is exactly what it's supposed to be. Man mad cuz wife dead and brat crimelord son kills dog gets revenge.
Just like another Keanu movie that there shouldn't have been sequels to the story suffers if the perspective gets expanded. Prison break too, forcing follow ups means the story gets more complex whilst the simplicity is it's main draw.
Keanu sommes un those roles a he is a bit aloof and emotionally detached. Somehow that suits both roles, but there isn't much there to flesh out a longer story.
Snape
Yeah....I want to like him and he's got more character development than any other, but yeah. So your high school crush didn't "get" your personality disorder and then slipped away. That's what happens in high school. But then he goes back to teach AND LIVE at his old high school and never moves on? Snape my man...marry Denise from your gym and get over it. Get a job somewhere else, join a pickleball league or somethin.
Everyone on Rick and Morty.
They're not supposed to be likeable, they're supposed to be entertaining.
I find they're neither.
K
I've got three questions for you.
Did you not grow up watching cartoons?
Do you find the science fiction based topics to be too much?
Do you believe there shouldn't be cartoons geared towards adults?
If you answered yes to all of these: ::: spoiler spoiler Who hurt you? :::
I grew up watching cartoons, and still do. I'm an avid scifi, horror, and speculative fiction reader/watcher. There absolutely should be animations geared toward adults.
I don't like Rick and Morty. I think it's dumb, self obsessed, drivel. I think it's writing style is the literary equivalent of pumpkin spice latte. No one hurt me, I just don't like it and I don't understand why people do. I answered a question. I didn't tell people to not watch it.
Understandable. Thanks for replying.
Now... what are some of your favorite new sci-fi movies? =)
It's been more books recently.
We just did Snowcrash, which has parts that aged poorly, but over all was a fun read. That leads to the old movie Pontypool (Snowcrash is in a shot in that that's an obvious plant- both had similar themes). That lead to Pontypool Changes Everything a book that, try as I did, I could not get through. But the movie and BBC radio drama are both great.
We're doing Ubik by Philip K Dick right now, and I'm enjoying that a lot. I've read a fair bit of his stuff but missed this one. I tend to binge authors so I imagine I'll do a few more from him.
Late last year I did about everything from Scott Meyers. The Magic 2.0 books are deff for a younger audience but were fun in their own way.
I tried to do the Murderbot series recently, but it missed it's mark with me. I didn't not like them and I can see goung back to give them a second try maybe in the fall.
The Duck and Cover series was heavily thrown at me through ads so I gave that a go. It deff has its moments but I think there's underlying difference of opinion between me and the author. I have no proof of this, it's just kind of a feeling. Not bad books, funny and clever in spots.
John Scalzi and Dennis E. Taylor are two guys I get everything from as soon as something new drops.
And recently a buddy got me to watch Ravenous. An old cannibalistic, period piece in the Spanish American War era with a good dose of homoeroticisim thrown in. Deff highly recommend watching that.
Not op, but i dont care much for the show myself either. I used to, when it was new and something different, but I believe I have grown past the pseudointellectual, but actual college humor. It just hits different these days
I actually agree. I started losing interest in the show during season 5 (2021). But like how GoT seasons went, I don't write the show off as a loss because the last few seasons weren't strong hitters.
The little Prince is overrated imo.
Boo and humbug.
How is the little prince overrated?
He's not some huge pop icon.
Oh unless, is he some huge pop icon where you're from?
It was a global success (translated into over 500 languages and has sold over 140 million copies). That doesn't seem like much compared modern movies or TV shows, but for a book those are really good numbers. Dr. Seuss sold over 600 million books but that's spread over 60 different titles. Could be a generational thing. I remember seeing "The Little Prince" in a lot of homes in the 80s.
I'm curious what they think is overrated about the little Prince.
Me, too. It's an interesting choice.
Kelsier
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler I liked him in Mistborn at least. After that, well. Jury’s out. :::
While I enjoy him, I get this one. He is a hero who would be the villain in any other story, so if you see through him he can be pretty unpalatable.
::: spoiler [Secret History] He will make a great villain. (Or already is from one series perspective)
Depends if you like your morally gray characters I guess. :::
Heads up bud, your spoiler tags didn't work!
Working now? They work in both Voyager and the default web UI, can't do much better than that?
That user may be using Sync, which last time I checked only supports the reddit style spoilers.
Ah, I am! The other users spoiler tag was fine so I just assumed something was up, had no idea sync didn't support the tag.
No harm done though, I've already read the whole series a couple of times.
There are a few companions in Mass Effect that seem to inspire a way stronger reaction from other fans and I don't totally get it. Like, I like Thane, and I'm sad about what happens to him, but some people are SO into him and I don't get it. I also love Tali and restarted my first nearly complete playthrough when I realized I couldn't save her and Legion, but there are fans who are full on obsessed. Then again, my love for Garrus can't be contained, so I'm sure some people don't get that.
At least we can all agree that Ashley and Kaiden are the worst, right?
John Constantine. The snarky smartass that has the most plot armor of any character.
Long John Silver
Aside from Tim Curry's rendition in Muppet Treasure Island. Pure gold.
Arrrr.
Peppa Pig
Edward Kenway from Assassin's Creed 4. The whole game actually is extremely overrated. I had a hard time finishing that game. I rather play 3 or even Unity.
your mom
Agreed. I really wanted that go-kart, you bitch!