Michigan governor says not voting for Biden over Gaza war ‘supports second Trump term’
Gretchen Whitmer responds to calls by some Democrats to vote ‘uncommitted’ in Michigan’s primary on Tuesday
Gretchen Whitmer, the Michigan governor, pushed back on calls to not vote for Joe Biden over his handling of the Israel-Gaza conflict, saying on Sunday that could help Trump get re-elected.
“It’s important not to lose sight of the fact that any vote that’s not cast for Joe Biden supports a second Trump term,” she said on Sunday during an interview on CNN’s State of the Union. “A second Trump term would be devastating. Not just on fundamental rights, not just on our democracy here at home, but also when it comes to foreign policy. This was a man who promoted a Muslim ban.”
Whitmer, who is a co-chair of Biden’s 2024 campaign, also said she wasn’t sure what to expect when it came to the protest vote.
Rashida Tlaib, a Democrat who is the only Palestinian-American serving in Congress, urged Democrats last week to vote “uncommitted” in Michigan’s 27 February primary.
Alternate title: Michigan governor explains first past the post voting. People unhappy.
This is a primary. Voting for Biden won't make it less likely that Trump will be elected.
So they're not even the official candidates yet? Just how long is your election cycle?
4 years.
Primaries are rigged there's no real choice
That's not really true. Primaries weren't rigged in the Rupublican primaries in 2016. They voted Trump in despite what the RNC wanted. It was the Dem's primary that was rigged (and turned a bunch of people off of voting in the main election, and it seems those people still haven't learned anything).
Everyone says they didnt want him, but an idiot demagogue is a useful fool.
Altrrnate theory: They didnt know who would beat Hillary, so they played as many candidates as possible until they figured it out.
That's some nice history rewriting but the RNC actually openly loathed Trump until he won the primary - that's when they became bootlickers.
Ah yeah, politicians never lie
How were the Dem primaries rigged. I still see lots of people claim this to this day. But no one has ever presented evidence. I voted for Sanders in 2016 and 2020 primaries. But legitimately more people voted for Clinton in 2016. She also won more delegates. She won fair and square. Now do I think there needs to be a better process? Absolutely. But in the system democrats have used for the last 30 to 40 years Sanders lost fairly despite a strong showing.
The superdelegates, which in 2016 made up about 15% of the delegates, were not elected and are not beholden to any voters, they just chose whichever candidate they wanted, and 604 out of 651 went for Clinton immediately, which meant Bernie started off at an immediate disadvantage.
There's this idea that if it's technically possible to succeed, that the system is not rigged (see racism, sexism, etc). But that's ridiculous. If someone starts off at a major advantage over their competition, the system is rigged for them. If, in the general election, one candidate started off with 75 electoral votes because some unelected people just decided they liked that candidate, I imagine we would call that system rigged in favor of that candidate (even if it is technically possible for their opponent to win). Not only that, but starting off at such a deficit for what would already have been considered a close race is likely to make those who might have voted for Bernie just not bother showing up.
So yes, I'd say the primary was rigged against Bernie. And the Democrats seem to agree, because they got rid of superdelegates for the initial vote, because everyone was pissed.
The DNC used that system FOR DECADES. They didn't implement it in 2015 to snub Sanders. And as shitty as it was. It was better than what they had before. This, this is why no one rightfully takes you seriously. Or shows any respect. Hyperbolic, disingenuous BS.
Depends what you mean by "rigged".
The parties, the candidates, the PACs, and the media are all theoretically (and in many cases, legally bound to be) separate entities, acting independently. But in reality, a lot of them share the same interests, and so some things happen that aren't exactly collusion or breaking any rules, but do give an advantage to one candidate, which many voters consider unfair.
In the case of the 2016 DNC primary, I think the critical objection is not the existence of superdelegates, but how they were presented in the media.
Clinton hovered between 54%-59% of the pledged delegates, but the media coverage would consistently include superdelegates in the count, showing Clinton ahead by 600 or so delegates, giving her "70% of the total count, and making her the presumptive nominee! The Sanders campaign doesn't have any chance of coming back from this!" ...before most of the country had even voted.
This kind of thing happens all the time, with lots of stuff, and it's not technically "rigging".
But seeing an official-looking number on TV -- that you know, provably, doesn't reflect the reality of the ongoing election... That feels, to many people, like it's "rigged".
I mean rigged when I say rigged. But yes I agree with a lot of your other points. The system absolutely should be more democratic and clearer. And our media should absolutely be constantly rebuked for the shit show it is.
I have no love for the system or democrats. But I really think all this talk about it being "rigged" nearly a decade on. Realistically is keeping us from improving the situation or finding better solutions. Instead grinding some perceived axe. While people, we all would likely be United against are United themselves getting things that we hate done. Clinton and Wasserman Schultz definitely earned plenty of that ire though.
You're apparently forgetting the head of the DNC that got fired for giving debate questions to Clinton.
You're also apparently forgetting the DNC argument in court that because they are a private organization that they didn't have to abide by their own rules requiring fairness.
None of those are even touching the super delegate issues that others commented on.
Yea, neither Biden nor Trump have the official party endorsement yet. Presidential elections in the US usually last between two and five years depending on how you define them.
General election is in November. Get comfortable, it's gonna be a while.
The news starts talking about the next election the day after the election so our election cycle is permanent at this point.
Biden supports genocide. Centrists happy.
It's a fucking primary.
This is literally the only point in time we can try to drag Biden too the left, will we get him far enough that he stops being pro-genocide? Probably not, dude is all in on Israel and always has been.
But telling people they don't even get to vote "not committed" in a fucking meaningless primary is something so undemocratic if you told me it would happen this primary I'd have bet millions on it being republicans.
But then again, I'd have bet billions on them being the ones to pull delegates for something the state party had zero control over.
Not holding Dems to standards may have already fucked the country for good.
I don’t know why people don’t get this.
Since 2000 progressives have been told to vote for who you want in the primary and then hold your nose in the general.
Now we’re supposed to hold our nose in the primary, too?!
I don’t have enough clothespins for this bullshit.
NH went progressive over party favorite moderate the last two primaries they had that counted...
So this party the DNC said their votes count for nothing, then Biden withdrew and threw money at a write in campaign so the headlines would be "Biden wins even as a write in!"
And not:
"DNC just made NH primary meaningless for something only NH republican officials could change!"
They know this is just a primary.
They're just conservatives deep down and give zero fucks lying and destroying democracy if they win. And it's not enough to win, they demand 100% loyalty.
Just like trumpers.
It's why Dem standards can't just be "better than a Republican".
it's why the democratic party is going to fracture.
Hopely only slightly after the republican party. But both are trying to be the last one standing, so to speak.
The problem is Progressives aren’t offering up any other option. Who am I supposed to vote FOR this time around? “No one” isn’t much of a rallying cry.
Why should they? the DNC will never allow a progressive to be the party candidate. which is why we didn't have bernie in '16... like the VOTERS WANTED.
I would say 2020 was the real stinger... clyburn in south carolina playing king maker.
New Hampshire went for Sanders in 2020, and were punished by losing their primary representation in 2024. South Carolina proved pivotal to the Biden campaign, so they're rewarded by going first.
Yuuuup. There were plenty of better states to choose if they just wanted a less-white state. Georgia is diverse and actually in play, but instead we kick off with a state that's deep red with an ineffectual Democratic party because they voted the way the winners liked.
I cannot remember an election where the incumbent got primaried. And even if we tried we’d be accused of hurting the establishment candidate’s chances in the general.
The Dem olds in Congress were not happy to see AOC stomp on Crowley (10 term incumbent) back in '18 (I think).
You have to know that’s not comparable to a presidential election
And that's why they pulled out all the stops to block Cisneros and support anti-choice NRA stooge Cuellar.
Eric Cantor but that’s not exactly a 1:1 comparison.
"Behave, or else you get the Orange Turd." seems to be the message.
There's nothing in this article that indicates she's talking about the primary vs the general election
True. Which is just bad reporting
Is someone telling you you don't "get" to vote how you want? Telling someone you disagree with their choice or that they're dumb for voting a certain way is not at all stopping that person from voting how they want and not at all undemocratic
I think part of the problem is that people are so on edge with how close we are to democracy ending. And how fine, and even eager many are to move on to full fascism. It is a primary though. And what really matters is a commitment to defeat fascism in November.
However you don't do yourself any favors acting like a teenage edge lord. Saying hyperbolic bs like pro-genocide etc etc etc. Biden's actions on the front are absolutely questionable. Poor strategy wise considering Bibi isn't going to listen to anyone. And just going to do whatever he wants. So all Biden is likely going to get out of it is a tarnished image. Even if we cut Israel off completely, something Biden can't do himself. It wouldn't stop Bibi the butcher. But then it's always easier to call hyperbolic names than it is to come up with actual working solutions.
Trump, the one who moved the US embassy would, if anything, support Israel even more aggressively than Biden.
It's so infuriating how difficult it is for people to understand this
There are also a large amount of people who understand this and are intentionally acting as if they don't. This is just this round's version of the 'walk away' people from previous elections.
He's good friends with and likely has donations from Netanyahu. And all Trump and the GOP have to do (as usual) is sit back and watch the left fight and destroy itself while the gop sit back and win.
Democrats are so damn stupid. Not a single one of your candidates and potential presidents is against Israel, none, so why make it an issue for this election?
She's right, and anyone with half a brain would see it as obvious.
Not only that, but it effectively does nothing as Trump will support Israel as well.
It's a primary...
What they're hoping it will do is show the party and Biden that his actions don't follow the value of Dem voters.
The goal is for him to shape up so he doesn't depress turnout and let's trump wins like when he ran against Hillary.
Ignoring the problem and letting the media keep calling Biden "most progressive president yet" will disenfranchise Dems and hurt turnout.
Dem voters aren't Republican voters. Fear isn't enough to motivate them, it works on conservatives because they're statistically likely to have a larger amygdala. Liberals (actual liberals) are more likely to have increased frontal lobe activity that handles empathy and critical thinking.
The main problem is neoliberals are essentially conservatives. They may vote D, but they think like Rs. And without that critical thinking and empathy, they assume everyone else is like them. Like Republicans do.
The result is actual liberals look at both parties, and realize it's not a good thing the same type of people are now running the only two options. Especially when the donations are coming from the same place.
AIPAC for example. They're funding Biden and Republicans who say Trump won, while attacking Dem incumbents who are against genocide.
Because all AIPAC cares about us Israel. They dont give two shits about Biden or America.
And as we've seen with his decision to move the embassy to Jerusalem, his position is even more extreme. Everyone who has paid any attention to his position on such matter should be able to figure out what his response to the current conflict would be. He for sure wouldn't even try to reign Netanyahu in but actively encourage further brutalities. That's exactly the "strong man" bullshit Trump adores.
So even if you really dislike Biden's handling of this whole shit show, you better believe that Trump would be even worse. And that's just the foreign politics part of the Middle East, we all know what harm Trump wants to cause to the US itself.
Moving embassy to Jerusalem was bad because it basically spit in the face of Palestinians - but we are literally supplying bombs that are killing Palestinians right now.
One's a spit in the face. The other is a 2,000lb warhead in the face.
Would Trump have done the same? Probably. But we know for a fact Biden did what he did.
It effectively proves to Democrats that if they support Genocide like Republicans they will never win.
If Democrats want to bend over backwards to appeal to a small minority of AIPAC voters, they will lose all their other voters.
Oh, it has nothing to do with AIPAC VOTERS. It's ALL about AIPAC DONORS.
Big difference...
It's both. Dems want to appeal to voters that are brainwashed by AIPAC.
There is also a Zionist minority in America that will only vote for a Zionist president and Dems are so afraid to lose them that they will throw away every single moral value they have to appeal to them.
But if the Dems aren't shown that they will lose more voters by kneeling for AIPAC than they will gain, the Dems will not be incentivized to clean up their act. In fact Dems will only become more extreme in their Zionism because they know that people will keep voting for AIPAC anyways.
Biden still has a shot to win voters back by actually managing to get recognition for a Palestinian state implemented. But he's just dancing around that subject as long as possible and it doesn't look like he's serious in any way.
There are more AIPAC dollars than there are AIPAC voters, but then I guess that's always the inherent problem with our political system:
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2023/12/pro-israel-pacs-poised-to-spend-big-to-unseat-progressive-members-of-congress-in-2024-election-cycle
https://thepoliticswatcher.com/pages/articles/congress/2023/12/7/aipac-donations-congress-members-unveiling-influence
Objectively correct take.
You can validly hate Biden for the handling of Gaza. But not voting for him is just helping the Fascists win.
Swallow your pride. Do your duty at the ballot and then make the real changes by organising and protests.
No. It's not on the voters to show up no matter what. It's on the politicians to be someone we want to vote for. We already did "vote blue no matter who and pressure them for change later." And now we're funding a genocide. That's over. Now it's pressure time.
I will vote for Biden in the General Election, but I will not stop speaking out about the Genocide in Palestine. We can put a stop to this, now. We don't have to wait for the election, we don't want to let Netanyahu handle this situation in the slightest.
You have to put pressure on Biden because it could make a difference. There would be no convincing Trump. Israel has utterly failed this challenge. Netanyahu has proven himself beyond any reasonable doubt to be a criminal.
That’s the joy of continuing with democracy in the US. Biden and ‘the Left’ won’t attempt to curtail your speech or throw you in jail. The other guys… not so much.
biden is a zionist. he is definitely not part of the 'the Left'. at no point in his career has he been a leftist. he is a centrist zionist.
And this is the only correct solution.
You see so many people in this thread essentially equating Trump and Biden because of Gaza, and they keep skirting around “you shouldn’t vote Biden because both sides are the same tee-hee.”
She couldn't be more wrong. Not voting for Biden will show him what he could lose in the General. Primaries are the more important than the general in this way.
Think of it this way: Vote for Biden. Not because you support any war, because you support being able to harass the man for another four years. Don't let him leaving office leave you with regrets! Meanwhile, consider also voting specifically against tyranny.
Personally, I see a chance for change with Biden, or at least the foundations for positive change. All I see with Trump are giant steps backwards.
Voting for Biden because forcing him to be president is elder abuse, and he deserves it
he a little confused but he got the spirit
Biden is definitely confused, but he doesn't have the spirit.
He keeps ranting about how he wishes republicans we're more like Nixon, Reagan, and HW Bush...
I know you don't have 50 years of Senate experience, but you understand they weren't great guys with integrity...
Right? You get that right?
Please tell me people under 70 don't think those three were fine now.
I know the Overton window keeps getting dragged right by neoliberals, but have they really convinced people those three had integrity and everything was fine back then?
This is the best take I've ever heard tbh
This comment has a better shot of anything else to get me to vote for him instead of abstaining the presidential and just voting down ballot. And before anyone flips their shit, I don't live in swing state. My vote literally can not matter less.
I refuse to vote for someone who supports genocide. I'm conflicted about it because it helps Trump, but I simply cannot vote for Biden. Gaza is part of it, but he's broken his promises.
He said he would halt the border wall construction and instead expanded it and had a photo-shoot at the border. He used the same exact loopholes Trump did to deny and turn away asylum seekers at the border.
He said he would make the Saudis a pariah state for chopping up a journalist and then he signs billion dollar arms deals.
He makes a big deal out of Russian war crimes when 3x more civilians have died in a few months in Gaza than the entire 2 years since the war started in Ukraine.
He went and pretended like Navanly was a hero. He met with Navanly's family. The guy who organized and marched with neonazis in Moscow and referred to Muslims as "cockroaches" that needed to be exterminated.
It's such a ridiculous level of hypocrisy I cannot tolerate.
On the one hand, this is true, you gotta vote for the lesser of two evils.
But also, there are only two candidates.
So now it's this shitty situation where US voters just have to vote Biden no matter what, he can do anything and there will never be consequences electorally. And i really feel like there should be consequences for supporting a genocide.
Yeah, if we had a good process to hold referendums on certain important contentious issues, that would seemingly alleviate some of the problems with the two-party system. And drop the electoral college process entirely
How quickly we forget. Remember Brexit?
Yeah, I do. I had that particular counterfactual in mind when I wrote. It's not like we don't get bad outcomes with representative democracy as well. The stances on reproductive care, marriage equality, and policies on marijuana have traditionally been either contrary to majority view or else hit back and forth as a spotlight issue.
One should not have to say bundle positions on Israel, abortion, guns, and drugs. Voting for the president like getting cable vs satellite. And the electoral college definitely worsens that, and probably the supreme court as well.
Not saying referendums are perfect. Just saying we in the US aren't giving a thoughtful referendums process enough of a chance in my view, and the two-party process is such that one party going off the rails causes the other party to be a forced choice.
As a disclaimer, I'm a progressive liberal and I like Biden, and I think Trump is atrocious and fascist and his inner circle are appalling for continuing to support him.
This whole gaza fiasco very well could put trump in the presidential seat again, even though he should be barred as it is stated in the 14th amendment. Yet it doesnt seem to bother biden or the dnc, this is such a clear example of why people think both parties are the same, because if liberals want to be the good guys then they shouldnt be condoning israels mass slaughtering of the people of gaza.
Yeah, from my viewpoint Tlaib and the "uncommitted" campaign are taking the actual steps to try to fix this liability. The voters that need to be convinced just aren't in a position where one more white politician with no credibility tells them they have to. Not voting is the strategically wrong choice, but voters just aren't that objective, and frankly most probably aren't even hearing any of these arguments.
They need to actually change the reality of our support for a genocidal war, not tell people that reality is irrelevant.
Yeah because as a voter we should put principles above everything else and base our decision on single issues... Isn't that similar to what the MAGA crowd is doing?
Sure, the principles are very different. But the outcome is the same: Hurt yourself by ignoring the complexity of a political system and voting against your best interest because you mainly listen to your emotions... I don't get it!
You haven't engaged with a single word from my comment, just repeated the same old "vote" spiel. Your mantra doesn't work. Voters are emotional and tune out people who don't offer anything more to respond to their personal anger than "but it could be worse". You simply aren't going to track down all the disaffected voters and berate them into voting how you think they should objectively vote.
Tlaib and the uncommitted campaign are trying to convince Biden this is a problem that needs addressing. Material change is what can reach the masses, not lectures to political junkies on how the genocide could be worse or how not-voting will get you genocide AND other bad things rather than just genocide.
When every side supports Israel, isn't it basically a non issue? I know you guys love to police the world, but maybe choose your politicians based on national, not global affairs
Our politicians choose us for the most part, not the other way around.
The threats and pressure are aimed at changing that statement. How Biden reacts right now is very much not a non-issue.
That works if you are France or the UK where the head of government and the head of state are different people.
Then run a fucking better candidate. Biden is actively ignoring the will of his constituents. He didn't win because he's likeable or desired, he won because Trump generates negative voter turnout. Imagine if the DNC actually ran someone people were enthusiastic about--they might actually get a fucking landslide.
Voting uncommitted is a fine thing to do during the primary. It shows the party that people are displeased with how the government is handling the Gaza situation.
Sitting out an election in Michigan is a bad idea. If you're in a safe state, go wild. Just not Michigan.
If shes so concerned about people turning on Biden, maybe she needs to head to the oval office and tell him to stop fucking funding and equiping a goddamn genocide.
Cause one thing you forget, Democrats are not cultists. We will not tie ourselves into knots trying to defend your bullshit. We will call out, and criticize you when its appropriate.
and supporting and equiping a fucking genocide is a pretty goddamn appropriate thing to be criticizing Biden on.
Its not on the voters to get over it.
Its on Biden to stop fucking doing it and to tell Israel to fuck off.
Is Israel apartheid and slaughtering the Palestinians really so important that you'd throw away the election for?
Turn it around.
Is being noble on Gaza worth risking Gaza being obliterated by Trump and the GOP?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/we-should-kill-them-all-everybody-in-hamas-gop-lawmaker-tells-pro-palestinian-activist/
Is being noble on Gaza worth risking Gaza being obliterated by Trump and the GOP?
And Ukraine being destroyed by Russia? And women's rights further eroding? And LGBTQ rights further eroding?
Even if you accept the premise that Biden and Trump are equally bad for Gaza, there's so many other issues on the table.
She's not wrong, but I'm not sure this strategy is going to work. Biden is at risk of losing Michigan because of his support of Israel, and I think people are going to be swayed by a, "better than the other guy," argument on that issue. You can argue that economically, even if Biden is not as progressive as you'd like, he will govern in a manner closer to your beliefs than Trump. Trump is even more hostile to the Palestinians than Biden, but if Biden is supplying Israel with unconditional military aid while defunding UNRWA, it will be hard to claim that he's different in any practical way. If the democrats are worried about Michigan, they should be trying to push Biden to do something meaningful, like restoring humanitarian aid to Gaza, not scolding their voters.
At least it's not a sea of [deleted] like reddit lmao
Gonna cut her some slack since the last time trump was president his sycophants almost kidnapped and executed her.
I've wanted her to be my president since the first time I saw her speak. SOTU response or something iirc?
Except this is about the primary. How is not voting for him in the primary matter? Honestly, the fact that the Democrat party in places like Florida just got rid of the primary so none of the challengers could be voted for is...dumb to me.
I might hate most of the other people running, since they're largely anti-vaccine pseudoscience conspiracy types, but people should still be allowed to vote in the primary.
The genocide will continue until morale improves
redacted
I wonder if right wing fascism will arrive more easily and more quickly if we vote Biden vs sitting on our hands and watching trump be elected. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned but I'll try give the non fascism side a leg up every opportunity I get.
This is somewhat true, however there was also a fascist uprising in the US during the 1930's that was only just avoided.
Hitler be looking at how the US is handling the Native "problem" and be taking notes
redacted
As an outsider looking in, it feels really odd that this could even be a firm issue for any voter. Like that high horse sailed so long ago, how can you possibly blame the current president for what has been a national policy for 75 years?
Sure, push for a candidate that doesn't support Israel and dissent as much as you can. But every time I read a comment about "Genocide Joe" it screams Russian propaganda farm.
I feel like this is just another division tactic to split the vote to favor Republicans.
I have friends who were rabidly for Democrats and their agenda for decades, decrying single issue conservative voters, now acting the same way toward Biden over Gaza as if he single handedly orchestrated this and didn't inherit years of foreign policy.
I fucking hate what's happening there and don't want to support it in any way, but my vote doesn't change what's already established and the alternative is so much worse.
I keep asking for a viable alternative and all I get is vote third party or stay home which solves exactly nothing.
Welp... it's not a lie. What a horrible situation to be in. Anyways, it it helps, I find it impossible that trump would support palestine. So it's kind of a useless point atm.
Americans need to demand a preferential voting system
we need to demand a lot of things.
It is a goddamn primary election and there isn't oppostion to Biden. Anyone voting uncommitted in the primary is having no actual effect on the general election as Biden will be the nominee no matter what the voters express.
Telling the voters they doth protest too much is electorally a shit strategy.
And shit electoral strategies on behalf of the Democratic Party is how we got Trump once and now likely twice.
the democratic party is just the relief valve after the republicans have their way. ratcheting away towards fascism.
Going against the best wishes for you and your country because you don't agree with foreign policy (which will not change under either governments) might be the absolute stupidest thing I've ever heard.
It's not a real argument, it's really about saying that you won't participate because you don't like the options. Notably, if you go to lemmygrad or lemm.ml, you'll find that people are all over this. They want to use it to cause "empire" collapse.
...almost as much as Biden helping to fund a genocide on Gaza supports a second Trump term.
I'll still vote for him, cuz lesser evil n' shit, but wagging your finger at voters for drawing the line at genocide is a pretty tone-deaf move.
I mean, it's not drawing the line though. Both candidates are supportive of Israel, but one is going to be catastrophic for the US and plenty of other countries, while one is going to be...fine? Certainly not great, but not a disaster. Anyone saying they won't vote for Biden because supporting Israel is over the line is just giving better odds to the guy who is actively enthusiastic about genocide and they know it deep down. I wish we had a candidate that would tell Netanyahu to get fucked and put money into humanitarian relief for Palestinians instead, but that's not the reality we live in.
I'm with you. But I can't bring myself to blame folks who feel burned out at the options of calm and composed genocide or enthusiastic chaotic genocide.
Like I said, I'm still ultimately going to vote Biden. Lesser evil is lesser. But, fuck dude... I'm so tired of this shit.
And even if we just look at the Israel/Palestine policy, it's clear that Trump is worse than Biden. Not because Biden is doing a good job but because Donald "Kill the familes!" Trump is batshit insane on this topic and would advocate for every brutality he could think of. Biden at least tries to reign in the worst Netanyahu tries to do. For example by making him stop the hunger siege. Trump never would do that.
The entire Democratic Party platform. Shame voters for having virtuous ideals, especially in the face of Republican vice.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Gretchen Whitmer, the Michigan governor, pushed back on calls to not vote for Joe Biden over his handling of the Israel-Gaza conflict, saying on Sunday that could help Trump get re-elected.
“It’s important not to lose sight of the fact that any vote that’s not cast for Joe Biden supports a second Trump term,” she said on Sunday during an interview on CNN’s State of the Union.
Tlaib’s sister, Layla Elabed, is the campaign manager for Listen to Michigan, the group that has been leading the effort to get people to vote uncommitted.
The group has the support of 30 elected officials across south-east Michigan, including Abdullah Hammoud, the mayor of Dearborn, which has a large Arab American population.
While Biden will easily win the Democratic primary there, Michigan is a key swing state in the November general election.
“We have left a very damaging impression based on what has been a wholly inadequate public accounting for how much the president, the administration and the country values the lives of Palestinians.
The original article contains 498 words, the summary contains 171 words. Saved 66%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Primaries are the place for protest votes. You want to send a message, send it now in the primary.
Come general election, it's time to shut up and protect the country.
protect the
countryempireVoting for Biden cause he's least worst fucking sucks. Dems need to do better, and Trump is what happens because they won't.
Israel needs to do better. Biden or Trump not being president won’t stop the violence in Gaza, Netanyahu not being Prime Minister will.
Dems need to stop shoving candidates down peoples throats -- this is how a lot of people felt with Hillary.
If Biden wins the general, serves at least 2 years, and resigns for health reasons, Kamala will be an encombant in 2028 and 2032. It could well be 2036 before we get another primary.
I really don't see Harris winning in 2028 even as an incumbent, I doubt Trump will be running then if he loses this election so the "vote for anyone but trump" gang won't be there to support the Dems against .
Which party gets the presidency is going to depend less and less on the candidates in coming elections. Demographic shifts are going to push the popular vote further to the Democrats, so what really matters will be the state of Republican voters suppression.
This is exactly what Putin wanted when he funded Iran's proxy attack of Israel by Hamas.
It's not some unsolvable conundrum, some Gordeon knot. Biden just has not to support a genocide and these people would support him.
While nothing surprises me anymore, you got a source for the Putin funding Iran funding Hamas thing?
Then stop bombing children, it's that fucking simple you fucking ghouls.
Every Election Cycle, vote to keep sky from falling. Before I die, I would like to have a candidate that somewhat aligns with my priorities.
Super confusing headline. I understood it as Michigan governor says [she's] not voting for Biden over Gaza war [and she] "supports a second Trump term"
I mean she's right. If you register a protest vote against Biden you need to accept the moral liability of helping Trump. There really isn't any additional conversation here. You can write a million words about how you are making the perfect the enemy of the good, and none of it will change the very simple cause and effect of a protest vote.
This is in the primary. Voting uncommitted isn't going to hurt Biden's chance on the general. For that reason, this is one where I support a protest vote as it does nothing to the general in of by itself. If the youth and Muslims actually voted uncommitted, that'd be a good gauge on how much people dislike seeing Israel supported over their action. I would vote uncommitted if I was in Michigan because of Israel's support toward settlers, and lack of belief toward their civilian to military casualty ratio because of the questionable definition of soldier being 18+ males.
To clarify I am explicitly talking about protest votes in the general. The primary would definitely be the right place to register a protest vote.
Probably a late response, but it seems like 16% uncommited vote, but let's move on to the pinned thread.
If we can't even support the candidate of our choice in a fucking primary then democracy is actually dead. Shaming voters in the general is one thing, but doing so in a primary is dickish to the extreme. It's attitudes like this that will actually help Trump. Who the fuck wants to get in line for a party that doesn't give a rat's ass what you think?
What is preventing you from supporting your candidate?
Maybe vote uncommitted in primary for pressure since that has literally no effect on the main election?
I recommend listening to Medhi Hasan debate this exact issue on the most recent episode of the podcast "Pod Save America".
So much better of a discussion than can be had in fediverse comments.
The most powerful thing I took away from it is that there are people in Michigan, right now, who have had literal dozens of family members back in Gaza who are now dead just since Oct 7. That actual, real, current loss of lives is always going to be more powerful than " other guy worse". A lot of them may just not vote instead of casting their votes for their Democratic president who's done less than motherfucking Ronald fucking Reagan did in picking up the fucking phone and calling Netanyahu.
I don't like our current system but I don't believe she is wrong. We have a two party system. Either the GOP or the DNC candidate will take the electoral college.
I hate that we are still voting against something. The Democrats need to run a candidate that we WANT to vote for (like Obama was imo) but we aren't there in this election so we can either protest and vote 3rd party, vote for Trump, or vote for Biden.
Not just a second Trump term, but a second Trump term and continuation/acceleration of the genocide in Gaza. Not voting and letting Trump win with a razor thin margin in a swing state will not fix the problem. Between the two realistic choices, Biden is infinitely more likely to push Israel for a ceasefire, which is the best chance anybody has to get the situation under control.
It doesn't look like Gaza will survive til election day, so none of this can be put on Trump.
You can't blame Trump for the Gaza Genocide but you cannot claim that Trump will make any positive difference there vs Biden. And Trump WILL make destructive changes to the environment, women's rights, minority rights, trans rights, global warming, existence of democracy and establish a more fascist state. So yeah, I guess one outcome is indistinguishable from the other
We've also seen what Biden will do for the environment, women's rights, minority rights, and trans rights. Nothing. This is pathetic.
Source please.
I’m sure it’s not at the level that you and I wish for, and your grievances are valid…
But calling it “nothing” and then insinuating a Trump presidency will be equally bad as another Biden term?
Come on, friend. Let’s be more rigorous than that.
You're the one defending biden, show us something that will make him look more attractive other than fear mongering about a trump presidency.
Where on this thread did I defend Biden?
Our anger at the Democratic Party not doing enough to X, Y, and Z is valid.
As far as I’m concerned, feel free to beat up on the Democratic Party.
From my perspective, I was calling out the parent poster for a lack of rigor.
A national political institution not meeting our standards is not the same as a national political institution doing nothing.
Additionally, it also doesn’t work for us to equate a Trump presidency with a second Biden term as though one clearly won’t be worse than the other for many of the values you and I seem to be mutually committed to.
Its more than not meeting our standards. It is actively working against the working and lower classes. It is not doing anything to atone for the crimes of climate change that have proven to be the fault of the US and the fossil fuel profiteers that are headquartered here. Biden and the democratic party will never attempt to seize funds from those profiteers to pay reparations to the global south. Biden and establishment democrats are not really interested in paying reparations here even. Biden thinks they did us a favor for cancelling debt if you have 12k or less. Most people have more than that from one semester of school. You also had to be paying for a set amount of time beforehand. Public service gets you a better deal but you still have to pay. Why are we the only country that has "democracy" but not social welfare anywhere near what some countries even than us have? Well because this country was always a european colonial project and it hasn't stopped being such. MAGA? No, America is an illegitimate colonial project built on slavery that hasn't been reckoned with and continues to use slavery to meet its economic goals. We are the only "democratic" country that uses forced labor as punishment during incarceration. I don't see biden or establishment democrats mentioning anything about that?! THE US STILL PROFITS OFF OF SLAVERY. Say it again and keep saying it. You are not defending some shining beacon of liberty and freedom in the darkness that is the world. America is that darkness.
Show me some meaningful changes the biden administration has made in those arenas.. We don't have federally protected trans rights. Biden ok'd new pipelines. Democrats are attacking leftists and college students and saying they are russian or chinese assets when protesting for palestine so they don't even believe in free speech. McCartheyism is on the rise and the AIPAC funded democrats don't want actual radical leftists to have any voice or power.
"You have two bad choices and you'll like it" - Gretchen Whitmer, sort of
If Joe Biden can't take primary era criticism and use it to reinforce his general election campaign then he is truly unfit to lead. I'm voting for Uygur in the primary. We'll see who's still alive for the general.
So lets vote towards the furthering of the mistake of the last nazi war, or contribute to the next one.
That's the truth in very stark terms.
Not even remotely. The actual headline:
You win the top spot for “dumbest take on lemmy I've seen so far”. And that includes some shit from lemmygrad and hexbear before I blocked them.
Don’t get mad at me, I’m not the one intentionally funding a genocide.
I'm not mad, just impressed.
How’d that Michigan primary go for Biden? Lol