Some Tesla engineers secretly started designing a Cybertruck alternative because they 'hated' it
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Some Tesla engineers secretly started designing a Cybertruck alternative because they 'hated' it::"They were like, 'You can't be serious.' They didn't want to have anything to do with it," Franz von Holzhausen said, according to Walter Isaacson.
Cyber truck looks absolutely shit. The only thing it had going for itself was that it would have been the very first fully electric pick up truck - when it was first announced.
After more than 5 years Tesla is nowhere close to mass producing the ugly while Ford stole the thunder with announcing and launching the F150 Lightning. If I was in market for an EV pick up, I’d no longer consider Tesla cyber truck, let alone the Fascist ElMo’s shenanigans.
Good luck getting a base model F150 at a decent price. I tried earlier this year and only 3 dealers East of the Mississippi had the base model and they all wanted $30,000 OVER MSRP. Ford can lick my butt for not making enough base models and trying to push their XLT and platinums starting at $75k. I need a truck to work in not have it open and close the lift gate for me.
At this point I'll take a shit looking truck at a decent price over whatever the duck Ford and their dealers thought was a good idea with producing so little of the base model, not to mention base model with extended range batteries were ONLY available to fleet purchasers.
Two years ago I was going to but my first ford, my first truck, AND my first electric because it was the same car. On paper the F150 Lightning seems like the most practical family car ever made. Dealer markup and low volume completely killed it. Ford should eliminate dealerships and sell direct with fixed pricing.
It would be great if they just made more base models. They're "sold out" for this year already, but you still can order the luxury trims for trucks that haven't been made yet. I'm not convinced that Ford actually wants to sell any base models.
I walked away and bought a Bolt EUV instead.
You are actually allowed to buy directly from the manufacturer. Contact the Ford plant. They'll sell it to you at MSRP
Not the pro model (base model). You can order direct for all other trims though
It’s almost like lithium supply chains are absolutely fucked, and EVs would get zero traction without government subsidies.
Feels good though. Saving the world. (/S)
We actually just discovered the largest deposit of lithium on earth in Nevada, so those should get unfucked in the next couple years.
Kansas has declared all their children available for the mines.
The "micron precision" memo that leaked tells me they're nowhere close to mass production. At my old job, tolerances were pretty much set when we finished a design for a large chemical unit operation -- which was typically built within two years. I would expect mass production of something like a car to not to take too much longer.
I see what you did there, stealing thunder with the Lightning.
And yes, Ford's approach is smart, cheaper, and more utilitarian. Besides, it doesn't stand out like a smashed thumb in a splint.
Rivian also has some decent designs. I know that Ford has a stake in the company, but it's only holding 12%, so I don't know that they have much say in what goes on over there.
I could've sworn Ford sold out in April. Also I love the idea of a Rivian, looks so good, but one of my customers has had one on order for so long it might as well be the cybertruck to him at this point.
It hasn't even been 4 years
Gotta cut everyone some slack when estimating time since the pandemic. 3 years was 10 years ago.
I'm 46. As far as I'm concerned, the 90s was last week.
Same, and my music taste still reflects that :(
28 -- the 2010s feel like just a year or two ago, and my music taste reflects that too :(
You're right on that one, the struggle is real. Comes up in conversation pretty often.
Any day now, the cyber truck will come whizzing down the hyperloop with its sub 10 micron build tolerance and tornado proof glass, fully autonomously driving of course. Any day now.
With its flat body panels flapping in the wind.
Sexy
S3XY.
Amphibiously (briefly)
That was pretty painful. Not even a rumor that he said it, he tweeted it lol
Literally any vehicle can be briefly amphibious.
$10 says he'll sue to call the vehicle amphibious, autonomous, airborne, and explosion-proof, just because it can briefly be those things.
Any car is amphibious (briefly) 😉
It's a finisher car!!!
I really want to see one after it's hit by a heavy hail storm.
...or even a champagne bottle!
Obviously, it will have front-mounted flamethrowers.
Just after the Tesla semi!
You just know Elon had a personal hand in designing it, because there's no other reason a car company would go ahead and build the equivalent of "The Homer".
He didn't have a personal hand in designing anything, because he doesn't have an engineering degree. And that's why everything he does is stupid.
"Musk doesn’t have an engineering degree - and kind of has a science degree. He began the first in physics at Queen’s University in Kingston, Ontario, after he moved to Canada from his native South Africa. He completed it at the University of Pennsylvania, where he transferred after two years to earn his second bachelor’s degree, in economics, at the Wharton School. He completed it the following year. Musk then headed for Stanford to start a Ph.D. in applied physics, which he dropped out of."
https://www.news18.com/news/buzz/elon-musk-has-a-problem-with-rocket-scientists-thinks-engineers-deserve-all-the-credit-3136538.html
Oh, I know that. Neither did Homer.
He likely doodled it (or got some lackey to be his remote controlled pencil), and then it was some other poor fucker's job to turn that sketch and a handful of vague notes into an actual car.
I don't like Musk, and I'm not a fan of Tesla in general, but I kind of dig the design. Completely understand why it's controversial and how others could perceive it as ugly, but I like it.
Then again, I liked the PT Cruiser when it came out (compared to all the other cars of the era), but within a year it became the car that was falling apart and owners hated it, and within 5 years it looked really dated.
I still like the Chevy HHR and Plymouth Prowler designs. They are truly "bold" designs in that they make decisions that a large percentage of people disliked. Not the marketing "bold design" which means "we slightly exaggerated a popular design feature that's in style right now so no one will object to it".
You'd probably like the Fiat Multipla, the Renault Avantime or the Lotus Europa as well.
I actually really like all those designs. They're bold, playful, distinctive. Much more interesting than the dreary crossovers of today that all look identical - bloated hatchbacks with unnecessarily high ride-height, angry anime eyes, and oversized grilles. Full-width tail light bar like a dollar-store Porsche completes the look.
I’m not really into cars and I agree Multipla is horrible. Lotus Europa is wonky, but I don’t hate it. Genuinely curious to know what people have against that Renault when it comes to looks
With the Renault it's the back rather than the front. Like they were going for something, but nobody could really decide what.
It reminds me of early to mid 2000’s Megane, so I kinda like it. Always liked how that one looked, especially since my parents owned a boring Thalia
The Multipla looks like two cars got merged together in a transporter accident.
Liking the design and deciding as an executive that this is what your company are to spend money and resources at are different things.
Let's see how much you like the design after being hit by one.
The triangular unibody frame was a very clever functional idea that didn't seem to work for whatever reason. That happens all the time but it's insane to keep the same form when the function doesn't benefit.
I'd agree, if it was designed by somebody I respected. Than the lack of design could be perceived as a choice. As it is I think Elons a skillless dipshit and this is the only shape he could make on CAD software or some shit.
It looks like a shitty futuristic movie prop
From the 80s
Needs a vaporwave background. With a palm tree.
Not just shitty, but extremely cheap.
It’s looks like a little kid was drawing a house and halfway said, fuck it, it’s a car and put wheels on it.
Homer Simpson designed a better car than Elon.
I think a sequel to that episode is due.
where elon musk sees the car homer designed and makes a truck version
There's no way in hell this shit doesn't completely flop, right? Like, who in their right mind would buy this garbage aside from techbros riding Elon's pole?
There's a ton of goobers that want it, but very few are actually going to be able to afford it. It's going to be 80k plus
I know someone who preordered this atrocity immediately. He of course drives a Tesla already and was convinced it was fully self-driving capable (3 years ago! LOL).
Some people really embrace Musk's reality distortion field. Other co-workers just made fun of him and asked him if he was going to put his current Tesla S on his Cybertruck's truckbed to max out his Tesla fanboyism.
If it weren't for Musk standing to make a profit from it and Tesla's history of questionable design decisions and quality issues, I'd potentially be interested in one. I like how it looks (although my aesthetic choices are certainly not everyone's cup of tea,) and the specs are pretty impressive if they manage to deliver on them.
There's a lot of hunger out there for more EV trucks, musk fanboys will gobble up anything he is involved in, and lots of people make questionable vehicle purchases, I think it will sadly sell just fine.
I predict it will flop harder than the Segway.
Wait, should I stop expecting the Segway to finally become the next big thing??
Here's to hoping Musk tries some extreme cyber trucking on a very high and dangerous cliff somewhere too.
wait it's still in process, not out yet? How long is the development during, for this horror?
It will be a moderate success, I suspect. Owing more to the massive demand for electric vehicles than the cyber truck's particular design.
No chance it will outsell the f150 lightning, except possibly if Ford can't build enough to meet demand.
There are plenty of people not in their right minds who have the money (or access to financing) and questionable taste to go buy the thing as soon as it's available.
I don’t like Elon and I don’t like trucks but I like the cybertruck design 🙂 it’s just refreshingly new design on the road
Refreshingly new? It looks like someone started 3D modelling a Sprinter Trueno, but gave up after making the first low poly draft.
I like this sort of art
Something that looks straight out of a Hulk Hogan action show is refreshingly new to you? It looks like a late 80s early 90s toy.
Sorry, I’m not that old 😅
Completely flat steel's gonna ding like a bitch and it'll never come out. You'll need an entire new sheet to replace it if you want it to look right.
That said, it will never look right since it's not being built with thermal expansion in mind.
It‘ll also slice really nicely through pedestrians. I don’t see this being allowed in most EU countries.
The US laws on bumpers has been refined in blood over the years. At least 20% of the people I know in my area have damaged their car by hitting a deer.
How will this truck fare if hitting a 90 kg deer? It's different enough that it might be substantially different (better or worse) than a more conventional truck.
I'm also reminded of a famous car made of paneled stainless steel. It was a terrible car and ruined the company that made it. It's only remembered fondly because of a popular movie series.
Well if you're going to make a time machine out of a car, why not do it with some STYLE
Doc Brown was secretly a coke head, and DeLorean was his dealer. He threw the car in for free when he delivered the last couple kilos to Doc.
How do you think he got matched up with the Libyans? It's not everyday you get offered to help smuggle nuclear material...
and yet, each new generation of vehicles has less and less of an actual bumper, meanwhile the cost to replace basic shit like headlight housings have skyrocketed. I live in deer country too, and you have to add your own aftermarket bumper if you want any real protection.
From the sound of it you'd be lucky to get it off the lot /s
Fr tho I bet it'd cut the deer in half. Then again it's kinda huge, so maybe it would just ramp up on top of the deer and launch itself.
I assume it's also crazy fast like most Teslas, so maybe it would just pink mist the poor animal.
I think the truck would be totaled regardless, only real question is if the driver survives and if it catches on fire
You could Bondo and paint the entire thing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But nothing will ever make it look good
I thought he was always the only engineer tho. This implies he does not do his own designs. Very sus. /s
musk is not an engineer
It was supposed to be sarcasm but I guess it didn’t translate well via text. I’ll add the /s, sorry :)
(I am an engineer, so this lie by him has always irked me)
Engineer =/= designer
He's not the designer, either, that's the sad part... He just chose between designs others created.
He's a designer the way Nigel Tuffnel designed the Stonehenge set piece on a napkin.
are you disabled
So both the engineers and everyone in the comments is just saying they hate/like the look of it? That's the last important part. As I understand it, the Cybertruck is never going to be allowed to the roads in Europe because of how unsafe it is. That's what people should be interested in. Looks can be pleasing to some and ugly to others and that's ok.
I've been wondering about its crumple zones. So... does it not have any ?
The other car is the crumple zone.
I wonder how much the other car's crumple zone affects the performance of your own. I wouldn't be surprised if one car not having one would degrade the performance of the one that does.
In which case, these cars actually become a public safety risk.
The crumple zone absorbs kinetic energy / momentum and allows a smoother and slower deceleration for the passengers as the energy transfer of the impact gets drawn out over time. The suddenness of crashes is what causes the greatest injuries, so you want it to be less sudden.
If both cars have equally performing crumple zones then both zones contribute equally to this "jerk reduction" (a rapid change in acceleration is called jerk), but if only one has it then you only get half as good reduction and the slowdown will be more sudden.
I thought that might be the case but I didn't want to speak authoritatively.
Yeah this cyber truck is going to make accidents a lot worse.
So the pedestrians are as well?
Airbags
the bodies of children it's software won't detect will have plenty of crumple zones, don't see what's the issue
the thing is a giant slab of angled metal, when it crashes into things my guess is the hood will slide backwards and "dissect" entire people.
That's a threat with most vehicles and is easily engineered for. Aside from visibility problems, we can't know what real safety issues it might have until we get crash test data.
How unsafe is it? I've not seen any crash test results.
Afaik they haven't done any crash testing yet, or haven't released the results. The EU tends not to allow cars with sharp, angular front ends. Iirc that's why the latest Camaro can't be sold in swathes of Europe.
Why are people so convinced that the Cybertruck won't be safe? Of all the bad things we can say about Tesla, it's a fact that they're quite safe vehicles. I see no reason why the company would suddenly build a vehicle that is so unsafe it cannot be sold in Europe. Some comments in this thread say it doesn't have any crumple zones. How strong do you think 3mm stainless steel is? The strength of every vehicle comes from its frame, not from its body panels. Same thing with the Cybertruck.
Safety isn’t just about the driver though, you also have to think about what happens when they hit pedestrians or other cars. I gotta say, there’s a lot of vehicles I’d much rather be hit by than this if I had a choice
There are also pedestrian safety laws. I'm not convinced that the Cybertruck is less safe than any other similar-sized pickup truck. If anything, the nose is a bit lower, so it'd let a pedestrian fall on the hood more than if they were hit by another truck.
Either way, the stainless steel isn't going to be a factor, and the pickup market is flooded with vehicles that are less safe for pedestrians than lower cars.
The OG cybertruck reminds me of Lara Croft in the OG Tomb Raider.
If you know you know, looks like a shitty prototype.
Y'know, I wanted one until I learned anything about Tesla as a company or about Elon, and then I decided it's vaporware and will probably never be delivered for reasons that are stupid. Looking from the outside but with experience shipping big software releases, this smells a lot like what you get when you think of QC not as an engineering discipline, but as a cost to be minimized.
I am still very confused why it's not called the X Truck or CyberX TruX or something stupid containing the letter X
He already has the Tesla Model X. Probably why.
The Tesla models are S, 3, X and Y. Because Musk is a child. He's such a child that he tried to get the 3 to be Model E, but Ford owned the trademark.
He is also such a child that he had to give his daughter Exa Dark the nickname Y, because he forgot he named his other son X.
He is also a douchebag. Fucking dude has
710 kids claims to spend half the week with all of them. Claims he works over 100 hours a week and somehow also is the best person to be CEO of four companies... want proof CEOs don't really do much work. Here it is.12 kids.
Whoa, hold on. Who are the other 2? I am now counting up to 10: X, Y, Tau, Griffin, Vivian, Damian, Saxon, Kai, Azure and Strider.
Who am I missing? Are you sure your not thinking of Nick Cannon? Lol
Looks like we were both off: https://pagesix.com/article/elon-musk-children/
So it's 10 living kids + a SIDS death, which is tragic altho I struggle to feel any pain for Musk.
Makes me wonder if there's a psychological link between losing his first and having a breeding fetish. My money says no because he's a sociopath and his father clearly does the same, if not worse, shit. Still an interesting idea to wonder about.
What a fucking ding dong this guy is.
Drive one from California to Texas and see where the body panels pop off.
Barstow.
Hasn't Tesla's design language always been about not rocking the boat aesthetically? The model S looks nice, but except for the lack of a grille it kinda just looks like any other car. You could make an EV look pretty weird as you don't really need an engine compartment, but it's harder to sell someone on both an exotic drivetrain and an exotic appearance. This think looks like it fell out of blade runner...
It also doesn't look very aerodynamic. I have some concerns about range, especially considering that Tesla doesn't exactly have the best record of honesty in that particular area.
I guess we'll see how it sells. Eventually.
This thing looks like it fell out of the 1997 Blade Runner computer game if Westwood had decided to go with polygonal 3D graphics instead of pre-rendered FMV and voxel 3D.
The entire reason I was ever potentially interested in the cybertruck was how fuckin weird it looks.
Specifically this take from another poster
I love that shit.
It looks weird but no worse than any other truck. Anyone that tells you an F150 is aesthetically pleasing is full of shit.
Am I the only person besides Elon who likes the cybertruck? I hate agreeing with that idiot on anything, but I think the cybertruck looks cool.
I thought the concept looked cool, but the one driving around now looks absolutely fucking terrible imo.
I mean I respect the opinion. I honestly think the design just needs to be workshopped. You could absolutely market a futuristic all metal pickup with bullet proof windows and all the other stupid shit it does. It’s just the design that’s the problem. It’s all Elon, and as we know now Elon is actually dumb as fuck. He’s a guy who mistook his type two bipolar symptoms as ‘flashes of genius’, got lucky in the dot com boom, and is now too rich to be told no.
You need that guy in your corner that says ‘I like the first draft Elon, but what if we changed a few things, I think you’re on to something’. Elon fired all those guys. And he probably flatly refused to change his initial design. So we have this stupid shit.
All I can think about when I hear about how this guy conducts himself in business is Gavin Belson from Silicon Valley
I mean, I doubt he did any of the designing of the truck at all...he may have pointed at some presented options and selected this one, but that's probably the most "designing" he did...this is the shitty design-work of other people, put on display by him.
It's intentionally designed to look polarizing. You're not gonna find a lot of people sitting on the fence on this one and since it looks so different from every other car on the market there's gonna be a lot of people who aren't into the change. But yeah I hate it.
Yes. It looks stupid.
It looks like a cheap, "futuristic" car that would be in a vintage sci-fi movie.
I mean, there is nothing else on the road that looks like it for better or worse
It looks like a car drawn by a 5 year old.
I’m not even saying that as an insult, that’s literally what it looks like.
My problem with it is that it’s just extremely boring imo
I think it looks okay but it’s just way too big
It's smaller than a F-150.
That’s too big too
I disagree with you, but not because I'm a particular fan but because I think trucks are meant to do a job and not be any kind of showpiece or daily errand-runner. To me, a truck should be large and capable and only used when those capabilities are needed.
Honestly, the current consumer electric trucks are silly because their performance envelope is very small compared to their price. They are too expensive and heavy (in lithium and energy consumption) to make sense as a grocery getter and they are too limited to actually haul a real load or take a trailer camping.
I applaud the effort and I do think the F-150 is cool and represents solid progress in the state of the art, but I think the most efficient and environmental option is to keep a smaller efficient electric sedan for most routine driving and maintain an older large diesel truck for when it's needed. No need to build new iron, there's plenty of good trucks that can be kept on the road with TLC.
There are also industrial electric and hybrid (turbine-electric) trucks which are amazing, but we're talking multi million dollar specialty vehicles.
I agree with you fully here. Probably why I have a 500e for commute and a '95 F-250PSD for when I need a truck.
I like it, but honestly, the bigger reason I want it is the supposed 14k+ tow capacity.
If it doesn't actually achieve that, which I'm definitely dubious it will, it's a nonstarter for me.
I'd expect that to arrive at the same time as the unbreakable glass and the full self driving.
Yep.
I love it too. It's completely ridiculous and ugly in a way that appeals to me.
I'll get one if it has 500 miles of range. I have a reservation but might wait to see how close Chevy gets before making a choice.
It could look like a potato for all I care as long as it can haul a bed full of stuff for 500mi.
Rivian is offering a 400 mile range, with 600 bHP!
Tesla is notorious for lying about their range.
I have a model Y LR w/ 320 mi of range, and I have actually gotten that range before in ideal conditions, but yeah, it's unlikely at best.
I'm in no rush, I can wait to see what Chevy and Tesla do before deciding. Maybe Rivian comes out with a 500mi R1S and I'll just deal with a trailer.
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/
It's not just an ideal conditions thing, Tesla is further away from their EPA estimates than every competitor. It's borderline fraudulent and I wouldn't be surprised to see it at least land in court.
I would buy any number of things from anyone else because of how big a liar Elon is, and how much he seems to get involved in fucking things up.
I mean, ok, I get that, but it's never been an issue for me personally. I've never had a vehicle that hit it's EPA estimate when I drive 85+ with the AC at full blast when it's 105+ outside. My truck is rated for 517 highway and I've never got more than 330 out of a tank, so, it is what it is I guess.
Edit: So I'm saying I assume I'll need 500mi to hit ~350mi, that's always been my base assumption.
Ah gotcha, well... You might still need even more from Tesla then, because they exaggerate more than their competitors.
I think it's mostly that the roof comes to a point. If it had a flat roof it'd look a lot better.
I'm indifferent to it, but the amount of people who give a shit is hilarious to me. If it goes 500+ miles, requires no paint and is cheaper than other electric trucks, it's a win in my book. So weird how people use vehicles as an extension of who they are. It's a fucking truck. Have you seen the competition? Tundras, F150, Sierra, and Silverado all look like ass.
They do all look like utter shit. But the cybertruck looks like single-digit iq shit, the other ones are at least closer to the center of the bell curve, even if they have tribal tattoos, goatees, and listen to the home depot guitar riff on repeat.
I also would think it's a win if it flies, turned water into wine, and had an automatic blowjob machine installed, which is about as likely to be true as the rest of this shit.
you mean, the mockup on a model s chassis that Elon's groupies pre-purchased ? Financing for free (of interests) a multi-billions dollars company ... no!
There's a lot to hate. It's insanely ugly. It's like a PT Cruiser and a Nissan Cube mated and all the worst car genes went right into the CybeR TruCk.
Slightly off-topic, but do you know what I hated the most about the Nissan Cube? IT WASN'T A FUCKING CUBE!
What was weird is that the rear dome lights had consenteic waves radiating from it like the headliner was water and the light was dropped into it.
See
WTF? Why?
The whole car has a Northern California or Colorado yoga instructor vibe.
If that was their target demo, they nailed it.
I just thought the headliner was coming down on all the ones I've been in lol.
Atleast make it look like the classic brick aka the Cherokee XJ sport.
Fine, then call it the Nissan Brick. Because it's not a cube!
What im saying is that the Jeep Cherokee XJ Sport is closer to a cube than the Nissan cube.
Oh, gotcha.
Not to mention that it's an absolute hazard to pedestrians and cyclists. I hope that if this thing gets released, the EU just straight up bans it from the roads.
This thing, while not as body-crushing as a twice-raised SUV, will still fuck you up acting like a blunt knife.
Not to mention crumple zones
Maybe the truck should get a chance to throw a steel ball at Elon’s face.
Keep those designs in your back pocket. Teslas gonna need something to replace the Cybertruck with after it flops and investors finally oust Elon.
They'll never oust him. If they do, they won't be able to ride Musk's reputation as an engineering and tech genius and they'll have to finally address all the issues plaguing Tesla (terrible service, unreliable build quality, various lawsuits) and I doubt they can afford to actually invest in those things and keep turning a profit.
The sales of the Model Y are more than making up for any dud Tesla puts out right now.
i'm really excited for this isaacson bio; i loved his steve jobs one, but i read that in high school, bright eyed and wanting to go into tech. lol.
Now this I want to see. What did the engineers working on their own side project come up with?
Read this as 'cyberduck' at first and I was like, what's wrong with my favorite FTP client? Why do they hate it?
Tesla is developing a skunkworks. Maybe something good will come out of this.
Are you kidding, if musk hears about it, he's sure to shut it down, and fire the people for wasting time or some bs
I dont believe for a second that any engineer in Tesla was opposed to this design. Everyone wanted a taste of daddy Tesla after that cybertruck was revealed. I know its en vogue to shit on Elon now in 2023 but 2020/2021 everyone was dick riding the biggest chad on earth.
Gross. Absolutely not. Just because some people failed to grasp that every billionaire sucks donkey dick, doesn't mean everyone did.
You are either 15 or you are lying to yourself
I'm 30, and I'm quick to judge. For example, your hindsight sucks as much as your judge of character.
I see you like to judge books by their cover. I also judge and i think you are a liar. So if you are a liar then you must think my hindsight and judge of character is amazing right. I know im awesome 💋
Come on, even Tesla fanboys though it was a joke and were waiting for Elon to roll out the real truck. About five people liked that truck back then.
I’ll be perfectly honest with you. I have never liked the Cybertruck. It looked ridiculous when it came out and there were various online articles that agreed with this at the time. Though I will grant you that there were also a lot of people on the Elon bandwagon who thought it was awesome. One of my best friends actually put down the deposit for one and he and I had a lively debate about it. It was a controversial thing from day 1. And looking back now, this might have been my first clue that Elon was headed off the deep end.
Yeah what I meant was engineers that were at tesla were all on board. These guys work shit hours for shit pay just so they can have Tesla on the CV. This was even more competitive 2 years ago when Tesla was stonks and every word Elon said was cherished. I would agree I was on board with Tesla and I didnt like the cyber truck but im not a Tesla engineer.