I remember him flying back from Germany to Russia after the poisoning.
Watching Ricky & Morty with his wife.
Very brave, but incomprehensibly stupid.
If ever there was a person who had a justified claim to political asylum, it was him.
Navalny most certainly wasn't stupid. He understood what he was getting into when he got on that flight back to Russia. My guess is that he hoped his arrest and detention would spark an uprising, which sadly didn't materialize.
I would not have made the choice he did, but I'm also not as brave as he is. Fuck Putin.
I don't think Navalny believed any resistance would be mounted for him - he might have had hope but I don't think he counted on anything. I think he chose to go back knowing he would likely die. He chose to be a martyr to maximize the effect he'd have.
Maybe you should all watch the documentary "Navalny", it literally shows you him and his wholeteams reactions on his way back to Moscow.. Very harrowing but a must watch.
He understood what he was getting into when he got on that flight back to Russia. My guess is that he hoped his arrest and detention would spark an uprising
Then it seems like he really didn't understand what he was getting into.
Brave, but not stupid.
It was self-martyrdom—self-immolation.
The only thing Навальный did not expect was just how long it would take Путин to crucify him.
Now, at last, Путин's fate is sealed, and by his own hand.
Just like Israel, if the IDF pushes half of Gaza into Egypt.
Just fyi, I wouldn't use the Cyrillic spellings like that because you haven't conjugated them correctly so it just looks like you're trying to seem more knowledgeable than you are of the russian language. But you also spelled the midget's name wrong its "пидарас (pee-da-ross)," have fun triggering orcs with that one =)
I didn't know хуйло fell out of fashion. Pidors may come in many shapes and forms, while хуйлуша is this one exact disgusting person. Let's be precise in our despise.
There's the polite and shy version of пуйло or хутин .
Thanks for mentioning it, but I don't feel like I'm a polite or shy person talking about him (:
But I do immensely enjoy the ironically homophobic joke. Homophobic jokes are appropriate when making fun of a country of homophobes.
How did you get a homophobic joke from a pederast?
I disagree with this. Using a characteristic of a person as a slur harms all people with that characteristic.
"Stupid" is a characteristic of stupid people. Do you disagree with its usage as well?
I use the Cyrillic spellings to better reflect pronunciation. I don't give a fuck about Russian's totally fucking insane grammar. I know Russian grammar. Only too well.
The first two are actually right. Both are nominative singular.
Only "Путин's fate" is wrong. If I were to respect Russian grammar, but again, why?, it would be "fate Путина".
Nobody else knows or cares how Cyrillic is pronounced versus the language the rest of everything written is. You're just confusing people, especially if you don't care about proper grammar to match your capricious language hopping.
Self-censored
That's a funny clip but let's be kind to each other. They were trying to be thoughtful in their own, admittedly unique, way
I wished to call out arrogant behavior in a fun way, but I may have been needlessly hurtful. I have edited my reply.
I appreciate your saying that, and your desire to be respectful of people's names. You had good intentions. I hope you have a great day.
Edit: Why are all you jerks downvoting the dude for saying sorry? Do you want to discourage people from apologizing? Because that's how you discourage people from apologizing.
Why respect the spelling and pronunciation but not the grammar? Seems kinda arbitrary.
It is not respect for the language. It is the minimum amount of respect every person gets when addressed by their true name. Even Путин deserves to be called by his true name. Though that is really all he deserves.
Haven't these people read 1984? They don't just kill you. They torture you until you say what they want to hear, and they keep you under close watch until the public forgets where you are. Then they kill you.
It wasn't stupid at all. You missed the whole point of you actually think that
Easy to say now how stupid some decision was. Much more difficult to remember circumstances and agree that the person somewhat adequately calculated risks but above all made the only possible decision to continue his fight. Check out their movie.
This is a statement from his wife from the Munich Security Conference:
"Thank you to the conference for giving me the opportunity to speak. I’m sure you have seen the terrible news. I kept thinking, should I come here or go be with my children. And it occurred to me that if Alexei was in my shoes, he would be standing on this stage.
I don’t know whether to believe the terrible news we received from Russian government sources because for many years – and you all know this – we cannot believe Putin and his government; they are always lying.
But if it is true… I want Putin and his friends and his government to know that they will bear the full brunt of responsibility for what they did to our country, my family, and my husband. And that day will come very soon.
I want to call on the world community, everyone in this room, people all over the world to come together and defeat this evil, this reign of terror. Putin must be held personally responsible for the horrors he did to my country, our country, in the recent years. Thank you."
That poor woman and his children too. Fuck that disgusting human for killing him.
I fear that, sadly, you won’t have to feel sorry for Navalny’s wife and children for too much longer.
And we will keep allowing oligarchical tyrants like Putin to rob us and slaughter our heroes and communities. If we were better people we would've put a stop to this already, but the framers know we're pathetic, which is why fascism will take over the world. For too many decades now I've seen movements, protests, demonstrations, voting, all these ways fail us time and time again, only making things slip into worse and worse situations. We need to stop playing the game by their rules, but we can't even agree with eachother in Lemmy comment threads let alone organize to do anything that matters.
but we can't even agree with eachother in Lemmy comment threads let alone organize to do anything that matters
That's the point. They run psyops to keep us mad at each other.
A big part of the problem is that everyone worships this idea of ultimate freedom, that intrinsically includes by nature of its absolutism the accumulation of power (whether money, political, religious, etc.) Even Democrats and some progressives. Look at America's political system right now, everybody's screaming you have to vote for Biden to stop Trump but nobody asks why aren't we pulling back executive power and strengthening our systems against abuse - because "D" OR "R" what good is the "freedom" to run for office of it doesn't include the "freedom" to wield that power as you see fit?
There has to be a bar. On power, on money, and yes on freedom insofar as ones ability to hoard it via power and money. A handful of people can hoard like 80% of the world's wealth but some asshole you never met across town can't (not to minimize trans but from how it affects one from a 3rd party perspective) get a new haircut and wardrobe because they're more comfortable as Laura than they are Steve? Eat a whole ass.
Yes, it's a tricky proposition and not one we're likely to breach, and likewise we'll continue letting singular nut jobs wipe out huge swatches of innocent people in the name of "ultimate freedom." There's no easy right answer, but
A- We'll never stop these issues until people learn to redefine this extremist vision of freedom
B- Everyone's going to screech about "ThEn WhO mAkEs DeCiSiOnS tHeN?" and I'm going to go ahead and counter that with "how about we start with NOT nutters like Putin and Netanyahu? Then come talk to me."
Just a couple of days ago someone told me Putin would never kill him because that would make a martyr out of him. What a timing.
RIP Nawalny. You died for something bigger than you.
Apart from the known one, russia has a long history of suppressed revolutions
I can think of at least 2 successful Russian Revolutions, actually.
He effectively killed him when he sent him to that prison.
Such cynicism. They just let him rot, bullied him with arbitrary resasons to punish him more and the farce of endless legal battles where no one really cared about the law. He was a strong person, but there's only that amount of pressure and mockery one can endure. I'm sad he died in captivity never to see the change of regime. That being said, he wasn't a coward, and kept doing what he could right until the end.
RIP Alexey, another russian his country needed but wasn't ready for.
Pressure and mockery? Pretty sure he died of physical abuse and malnutrition. He didn't die because Putin made him sad.
From what I've read, he has been woken up at irregular hours, has been in a solitary confinement, has been denied contacts to his lawyers – the only persons who he could talk to. That's from his prison close to Moscow, I don't know what he endured in Harp. I suspect it was even worse.
That man had balls of steel, going back to Russia after being poisoned. o7
I never understood why he did. He had to know Putin was going to throw him in the gulag, and imo could have done a lot more influencing Russians from the outside rather than simply martyring himself and ruining the rest of his life. Now there's absolutely no one standing up to Putin, and Nalvany is dead. Imo Russia is in a worse spot as a result.
Exactly. Going back to Russia was suicide.
It wasn't even a dramatic suicide like the Vietnamese monk who set himself on fire and drew attention to a cause. It was a suicide that didn't really draw any additional attention to Russia, and instead just silenced one of the critics who the world was listening to.
The last time he was in Russia Putin tried to murder him with a nerve agent, and that was only about 5 months before he turned himself in. While he was in Germany recovering from the poisoning, he was able to get the poisoner on the phone and trick him into confessing what had happened and how it had been done. That drew attention to Putin because it was such a dramatic story about tricking one of the agents.
But, flying to Russia to surrender to Putin? What exactly did he think was going to happen? What a waste!
It did draw extra attention, lots of extra attention actually. Navalny's problems in the Russian prison system made the news frequently, regularly reminding everyone what a fucked up state Russia is. Immolating himself on the red square would have been far less effective since that's been done a few times already (there's been a few people who have immolated themselves there already). So as a suicide with a message/martyr for a cause, it was in my perception fairly effective at getting a message across I think. Point in case: we're talking about it again even now ...
As much attention as he could have drawn if he had stayed outside Russia? I doubt it.
Eh, there is more than one man with values to a country of 140mln, one would expect.
It's just that this is not about standing up to someone. It's like a toxic swamp. Like fighting windmills which can and will kill you.
I suppose this was an emotional decision, such a swamp breeds cowardice, and feeling cowardice in people around you (figuratively) may be unbearable. Which is maybe why he wanted to do that.
Fuck bravery, the man had a family. That’s stupidity. I rather my father be around.
And he had an amazing redemption ark from a typical neo-Nazi of the cowardly kind (no exaggerations, his LJ from late 00s and even a few amateur political ads be proof of that) to simply a hero (no exaggerations again).
But he shouldn't have returned. It maybe was something aligning with the mood of defiance and felt right, but he really didn't owe anyone to go back.
I have my country and my beliefs. And I don’t want to give up either my country or my beliefs. And I cannot betray either the first or the second. If your beliefs are worth something, you must be willing to stand up for them. And if necessary, make some sacrifices. And if you’re not ready, then you don’t have any convictions. It just seems to you that they are there. But these are not beliefs and principles, but thoughts in the head.
And he talks about just a month ago how his sacrifice is sitting in solitary. He either underestimated how brazen Putin is, or thought it'd eventually be some kind of martyr? A real shame he's gone regardless.
I think he just overestimated his health and underestimated how (Russian) prison affects it. Bad nutrition, no sports, bad conditions - some place may be too hot, some too cold, there may be various fungi, and simple illnesses which you can easily treat outside prison are much more dangerous, because prison medics do not really care if you survive.
And, of course, that all is without the administration trying to kill you by sleep deprivation, sun deprivation and whatever else.
Putin is a murderer. 400.000 + 1.
May he rise as a martyr the Russian people so desperately need.
Too bad, russian people are apathetic sheeps, so they wont do anything
While what you said is crass, it's not incorrect. Russia has a very homogeneous population, and the culture among the older generations is to not question the government. Combined with a corrupt, burned-out police force that tortures activists, the average citizen is incentivized to keep quiet to avoid being the nail sticking out that needs to be hammered.
I never understood why the guy went back to Russia after they tried to murder him last time. There was really no other outcome that could realistically be expected. Was he really so keen on being a martyr?
Sometimes there are things a person chooses to do that are bigger than themselves.
He chose to allow himself to be a martyr. Hopefully it makes a difference, but it very likely may not.
Who knows, maybe his sacrifice paves the way for his successor.
His influence may not be obvious or immediate. We tend to think of history as being shaped by individuals, and in many cases it is, but often it's not so simple. His actions may not inspire revolution tomorrow, but his name is going on a list that gets noticeably longer all the time, his body has been added to a pile that continues to grow into a mountain, and his actions will be remembered alongside the actions of many others that form a very strong narrative. Those things collectively will shape the future of Russia.
Also remember sometimes a revolution isn't started by the revolutionaries on their schedule. Sometimes it starts when the opportune moment presents itself. I mean, Putin's getting older, and doesn't he look tired?
I agree.
I just feel like I understand why navalny went back to Russia, despite the obvious threat to his life.
He almost certainly didn’t die a clean death. I wouldn’t want to martyr myself the way he did.
Interesting username combined with your point.
I agree, but I also can understand why he chose what he did.
Yes.
It's not about being a martyr. Check out the Navalny movie. https://navalny-film.io/ maybe they will add English subtitles at some point soon, otherwise it's available in streaming platforms and torrents.
I hope that someday the people of Russia know freedom, something they've never known since the Tsars.
The Russian people have NEVER known freedom. Ever. They've been a war like, oppressed people with Stockholm syndrome for their entire history
One of my teachers in high school (around 1986 or 1987) said that the Russian people were incapable of freedom. He said they wanted & needed an authoritarian ruler.
At the time I thought he was just buying into propaganda, but I've been thinking he may have been right.
But then, it's starting to look like a huge portion of Americans don't value their own freedom either. At least, they seem to be willing to trade their freedom for ensuring that the people they don't like will suffer.
My personal theory is that there's a biological split in our species. Like how some people taste soap when they eat cilantro and others don't. I think some of us are wired to need and want a leader and others do not. The evolution of not needing a leader has not fully propagated to the whole species yet.
This is an interesting theory and begs the question... From an evolution standpoint, which one would be more likely to win out?
It looks like every 20's we have the leader thing win against the freedom thing. Then the leader kind of turns against the followers and the freedom thing resurfacss agqin. But since the freedom thing needs a lot of responsibility thing and people eventually fail to secure themselves the leader thing naturally arises again.
You want freedom? When someone out there is chopping off their oui-oui (pardon my French) all you think about is having freedoms? I thought this was 'Merica!
Since before the Tsars. They kinda got wrecked by The Kahns before the Tsars.
That would require bravery from a lot of people. Few have been as brave as Navalni. Let's hope his death shakes people's apathy.
They were briefly fairly free in the ‘90s, but the experience of their version of the shock doctrine was so painful that the people begged to be ruled again.
Yer, they got experimented on by free market maximalist. All regulations to no regulations. All public to all private, in a big fire sale. Those with money bought everything and became a new super rich ruling class. There was, understandable push back from that mess, but it swang too far back to authoritarian; but now with a new class of super rich calling the shots. Like Putin.
That's not really true.
That's what Putinists say, and what Communists say, and what Western leftists surely are pleased to repeat, but in reality privatization was simply conducted the way that people closer to the "reformers" could rapidly accumulate wealth. More like mafia plundering of Soviet industries and state property.
Obviously mostly illegal even despite the fact that state institutions were controlled by people involved in the process.
"Those with money" were not that, there were no such people in USSR, rather "those with party and bureaucratic connections" and "Yeltsin's clan".
“Those with party and bureaucratic connections” = “Those with money”. Power = money. Which order you put it in, doesn't matter. Those will one, have the other, on or off the books.
It wasn't the kind of power people with connections in USA have today, rather the kind to make a phone call to a court or to choose who privatizes a factory central to a town. The short-lived kind, because the properties plundered wouldn't last for long. There would also be literal mafia wars (only I think I've read that actual Italian mafia doesn't have much infighting, they are rational businessmen in some sense).
The point about this having nothing to do with free market stands.
The problem was basically unregulated free for all. A free market only works with regulation and law enforcement. Free market anarchists are naïve. But it was a common thinking at the time. The 2008 crash seriously dented their voice.
It wasn't "unregulated free for all", that's a leftist overvalued idea about Russian 90s. Laws were similar to what there is in Russia today, give or take, derived from Soviet laws. There just was a lot of open crime.
It simply doesn't fit in that leftist narrative no matter how you turn it, if you don't hide the reality completely behind such abstract phrases.
Free market anarchists are naïve. But it was a common thinking at the time. The 2008 crash seriously dented their voice.
How would it dent anything, being a direct consequence of protectionism?
I think we can agree there was a lot of crime.
The 2008 was a result of financial deregulation, not protectionism.
How are backdoor deals not part of the free market?? They're a natural consequence of information asymmetry.
Former soviet leadership using their connections to consolidate wealth and power the new system is imo not meaningfully different from the revolving door between American government and private industry and lobbying firms.
You don't get it, I'm not talking about any information asymmetry, I'm talking about a factory boss privatizing that factory with his friends, some of which would have better connections with sporty guys in leather coats and some better connections with special services, so some of those friends and their friends would benefit more.
It wasn't any "consolidation", you are talking in terms of actually functioning states with properties and rights protected, it was literal plundering. Similar to the Octopus series in atmosphere, one can say. With plenty of murders, gang wars etc.
No one begged to be ruled, let’s not be dramatic here.
Reactionary bullshit
nah, the collective trauma of perestroika gave origin to putin. only in its chaotic environment would someone that is at the same time political leader, criminal leader and oligarch leader come to be. russian people do vote for putin and his party. criminals either work for him either get exiled(see wagner group), sometimes its even worse to them and their family. oligarchs either nut up or shut up, bought by the relative safety of their families living in western europe.
addressing the reactionary bullshit comment, i can only infer that admitting the mistake of perestroika is a disturbing experience for you. but i recommend adam curtis documentary "hypernormalization" to understand putin and a part of the russian zeitgeist.
Do you always talk down to people?
i always try not to and am always sorry if i come out as such.
Ignore him, you're the only one talking knowledgeably
yeah the other commenter forgets that one is not only writing an answer but also engaging in a larger conversation. let that one be a constructive one.
Most people today on the Internet forget that, which is a damn shame
Answering the first comment in this idiotic thread ...
1989-1993 counts as freedom, I'd say. So does 1905-1914.
Now, absolutism doesn't offer much in that regard, neither does late feudalism. But that wouldn't make Russia significantly different from many European countries till somewhere around 1848. Then it became butt buddies with similar monarchies against revolutions and stuff (saving Austria from Hungarian revolutionaries in particular), only, say, Austrian monarchy still made quite a few concessions and reforms, while Russia remained a swamp till the Crimean war, and then tried to reform itself.
One can say it was finally on track to modernizing between 1905 revolution and till 1914, but then WWI happened, and then the October revolution happened.
Imagine, how weak and insecure Putin must feel to do this with any competition in his country.......
Yeah this is the very opposite of a strong man move. Really weak look.
Edit: great quote from Blinken
His death in a Russian prison and the fixation and fear of one man only underscores the weakness and rot at the heart of the system that Putin has built.
I knew almost nothing about the guy prior to watching it, and what happens to him is fascinating. He's not perfect but I do believe what he says and he really wanted a better Russia. The balls on this guy!!
Drives me a lil nuts that when something important like this is made and it gets exclusively stuck on one streaming platform.
They did make it available here https://navalny-film.io/ although without English subtitles from what I see. Hopefully this will change at some point, but feel free to watch if you understand Russian. Otherwise nobody was ever going to blame anyone for watching a ripped copy.
A flame has extinguished,, i will light a candle
I truly hope that a day will come and he will be remembered as a hero to the Russian people, celebrated and honoured. R.I.P. Alexei Navalny.
So the poison worked this time
A bit hard to get to German hospital when you are in a Russian prison in the attic circle
Third time's a charm
I hope there is eternal hell for people like Putin. Few deserve it like he does.
it'd be so great if someone made putty some polonium tea. he needs to go painfully.
I'm surprised it took them this long to kill him.
They were waiting for the world to forget about him.
I guess they got tired of waiting.
What's Putin's murder tally ip to now?
i count ukraine war victims as murdered by putin. either russian or ukranian.
It's over 9000!
rest in power, sir
it's so absurd that a certain segment of the population will continue to defend putin's russia.
You can kill a revolutionary, but you can't kill a revolution.
The Navalny story is puzzling from beginning to end, like mentioned elsewhere his political views were pretty wacky and basically ethnonationalist. But in the west we can not deal with anything more complicated than Good Guy - Bad Guy stories so Navalny had to be the good guy.
But what is strange to me is why Putin would want him dead, and more importantly if Putin wanted him dead why it took him so long. The Russian state has shown to be very effective at killing dissidents in the UK what made it so difficult to kill someone in a Russian prison?
The only thing I can think of is that Putin was ambivalent if Navalny lives or dies, and that the attempts were made by (minor) officials within the FSB acting on their own.
what made it so difficult to kill someone in a Russian prison?
To kill quietly.
I thought I saw him explain that he wasn’t an ethnonationalist but did tolerate such people supporting him because he wanted a bigger coalition to go against Putin.
A bar with Nazis in it is a Nazi bar
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Jailed Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny is dead, the prison service of the Yamalo-Nenets region where he had been serving his sentence said on Friday.
More follows on this breaking news story
The original article contains 32 words, the summary contains 32 words. Saved 0%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
You really dropped the ball on this one, little boop boop.
I have seen it come back with a "Saved -2%" before... turns out there were html entities that were counted as only one character pre-summary, but the full 5-6 character codes were counted post.
Was funny to me especially since the bot was honest about it lol. Like if I were to code a similar bot in the future, I am def going to add a conditional and skip the post if compression is <= 0.
How convenient
I wonder if he really did
Occam's razor, dude.
He is gone.
I'm sure he's dead but I feel like "He is gone." is not perfectly suited for the situation.
"You can kill a man but not his ideas."
It's interesting that Russians probably know whats really going with these deaths, but simply look the other way. The way things are going in America the world might see this happening in 10-20 years (Musk first please).
In a 2007 pro-gun rights video, Navalny presents himself as a “certified nationalist” who wants to exterminate “flies and cockroaches” – while bearded Muslim men appear in cutaways.
Seems your comment is pretty negatively reviewed but I'd love to hear the arguments against it. I'm gonna withhold my vote until maybe doing some light investigation later when I'm not busy.
Smearing Navalny's name is inappropriate when the bigger-picture thing the article gives is that, in 2024, a political dissident died in a gulag, which is the real news here.
Even worse: if you consider where we are, it could also have been an attempt to spread the narrative that he deserved to die, which is disgusting. But let's not assume the worst.
The truth is the truth, a political dissident died under suspicious circumstances and said dissent had some (pretty) unsavory political views. Doesn’t mean Putin is a good guy.
What I find inappropriate is that western media willingly completely ignore Navalnys actual politics in a ploy to get one over on Putin. How about just reporting the facts for once instead of being a blind propaganda machine.
I learnt his politics were shite by watching Western media
Western propaganda (mostly) doesn’t work via straight up lying or omitting the truth, it works by choosing what is amplified. And for the past 10 years the story around Navalny was that he was the liberal opposition leader, and once in power Russia would be a good™️country. I think given what we know of his actual activism and statements it would have been a lateral move at best.
That doesn’t mean political murder is a good thing, it just means (to my best estimation) it’s a power struggle between to highly questionable politicians and one of them won.
That may be true in your case, but it certainly wasn't the case in my country.
I'll grant you that most of the coverage about Navalny didn't mention it in my country either. I always assumed it was because it was irrelevant, because coverage was about how the opposition in Russia is persecuted, it was never about judging whether any candidate was worthy of replacing Putin.
If someone is kind of murdered and you write nothing about that and think that it's instead important to mention that his political views were terrible..... Well...
I don't like a lot of people, but that's not what democracy is about.
My bad. I forgot that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights has that exception that allows murdering "certified nationalists"......
"Certified nationalist" comes from Al Jazeera. He was a straight up Nazi, and Russia has claimed its goal is denazification after the Nazis killed 40 million of their people in living memory and there are somehow still people there who think Nazi ideas are good, they have no excuse. Who knows the circumstances of how he died, but lets not forget the CIA tried to kill Julian Assange, that's a confirmed fact about the US empire. The US empire will murder not to protect their people from Nazi thugs but to preserve their tyranny while Russia protects people like Snowden.
Russia justified the invasion of Ukraine with "denazification". So, I don't care what Russia thinks about it. It's probably 60% bullshit and 40% propaganda.
And what is that whataboutism about the US and Assange? I'm not even from the USA, in case you thought that...
And even more whataboutism about Snowden?
Must be hard for you to just write something about the death of Nawalny without focussing 90% of the text on the Vietnam war, 9/11 and the moon landing.....
It's hardly a whataboutism if I'm simply pointing out the selective outrage that give people a skewed and one-sided view of reality. I wouldn't have to bring up Assange if people gave him half as much attention, something that could actually help lead to his freedom and do something instead of demonizing happenings you have no control over aside from starting WW3.
but he doesn't like Putin so he must be a great flawless person who can never be critisiced
I get your point. He is a bad guy, so we should focus on that, rather than the fact that he probably was poisoned for the second time by a political opponent.
We should for sure upvote this article about a video from 17 years ago...
Guy bad, so we must kill /s
And these bloodthirsty tankies dare call leftists warmongers for not siding with Putler's Russia in Ukraine...
That's one thing the bourgeois democracies in the West get right: dissidents shouldn't be jailed and killed, even though it has happened in the past. If you can't guarantee that, fuck your whacky "socialism with Chinese caracteristics", cosplay communist.
Guy bad, so we must kill
Strawman argument. Can't expect better.
Also, I don't see any sympathy among liberals for Julian Assange, who's a jounalist and a legitimate political prisoner.
It's not a strawman, it's an obvious exaggeration to mock OP's positions as being primitive. Stop using debatebro vocabulary you don't understand. Try having an original thought.
About Julian Assange, despite the guy being kind of a dipshit, he has my sympathies, and I hope he'll be judged properly. I also hope the US will someday get better whistleblower laws. Because it hurts people doing good and brave work.
Chelsea Manning is out of prison alive and transitioned (wouldn't have happened in Russia). Snowden was exiled, but didn't drink polonium tea or spend a day in prison. Both of these guys blatantly broke the law, however bad the law is. It's not laws that were invented to jail them. They weren't jailed just for "vibes".
It’s not laws that were invented to jail them. They weren’t jailed just for “vibes”.
Ignorance is rewarded with upvotes here.
Assange is being tortured for the crime of publishing facts.
-Joint open letter by Nyt, The Guardian, Le Monde, Der Spiegel and El País.
Not that it would make the slightest difference to the lib cult.
We all know what happened to Assange. There are crucial differences with Navalny, like the fact that the US hasn't laid a single finger on him yet. Stop trying to change the subject.
The subject was: your smearing of Navalny's name is despicable. Yes, the guy is no angel, and we're not saying he should be president. Who Russia's president should be is for Russians to decide. But he did not belong in a gulag.
Hard to see something if you've got your eyes closed. There's plenty of liberal support for Assange, just this week the centre right led government of Australia passed a motion to urge the UK and US to return him to Australia.
Wow you made quite a stretch from what I actually said. Try to understand nuance, politics isn't always black and white. People who criticise one thing don't have to support the biggest alternative
I wasn't saying him dying was good, but I was saying that the people acting like he is some kind of perfect hero are ignorant and deserve to be called out on it
Said nobody ever.
Yet Navalny's more nationalist views are troubling. Last year he spoke at the Russky Marsh, where some protesters made Nazi salutes. He has also endorsed a movement called Enough of Feeding the Caucasus, which protests against the theft of state funding but which critics see as xenophobic. And a video that Navalny recorded for Narod several years ago called for arming the population to shoot Chechen bandits.
A sane country doesn't jail and assassinate dissidents for being dissidents. That's what's being criticized here. But, I'll admit, this guy's not exactly someone I'd have dined with. Not exactly a surprise to me, but maybe some people didn't already know.
A sane country doesn’t jail and assassinate dissidents for being dissidents
Agree 100%
So in 2012 he says that Russia shouldn't spend money on forcing Chechnya to still be part of Russia. And that Chechen bandits are a problem.
Later in 2015 Chechen bandits hired by Kadirov(and certanly with Putler's agreement) kill Nemtsov(oppositioner) right near Kremlin.
In 2022-present Kadirov's troops kill Ukrainians.
Nothing changed. Caucasus is still region where laws don't work.
RIP Navalny.
I remember him flying back from Germany to Russia after the poisoning. Watching Ricky & Morty with his wife.
Very brave, but incomprehensibly stupid.
If ever there was a person who had a justified claim to political asylum, it was him.
Navalny most certainly wasn't stupid. He understood what he was getting into when he got on that flight back to Russia. My guess is that he hoped his arrest and detention would spark an uprising, which sadly didn't materialize.
I would not have made the choice he did, but I'm also not as brave as he is. Fuck Putin.
I don't think Navalny believed any resistance would be mounted for him - he might have had hope but I don't think he counted on anything. I think he chose to go back knowing he would likely die. He chose to be a martyr to maximize the effect he'd have.
Maybe you should all watch the documentary "Navalny", it literally shows you him and his wholeteams reactions on his way back to Moscow.. Very harrowing but a must watch.
Then it seems like he really didn't understand what he was getting into.
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Source code and contact information
Brave, but not stupid. It was self-martyrdom—self-immolation. The only thing Навальный did not expect was just how long it would take Путин to crucify him. Now, at last, Путин's fate is sealed, and by his own hand. Just like Israel, if the IDF pushes half of Gaza into Egypt.
Just fyi, I wouldn't use the Cyrillic spellings like that because you haven't conjugated them correctly so it just looks like you're trying to seem more knowledgeable than you are of the russian language. But you also spelled the midget's name wrong its "пидарас (pee-da-ross)," have fun triggering orcs with that one =)
I didn't know хуйло fell out of fashion. Pidors may come in many shapes and forms, while хуйлуша is this one exact disgusting person. Let's be precise in our despise.
There's the polite and shy version of пуйло or хутин .
Thanks for mentioning it, but I don't feel like I'm a polite or shy person talking about him (:
But I do immensely enjoy the ironically homophobic joke. Homophobic jokes are appropriate when making fun of a country of homophobes.
How did you get a homophobic joke from a pederast?
The English "pedarast" is not a great translation. Not vulgar, or like, swear-wordy enough. Doesn't capture the Russian connotations. See https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%BF%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%81
пидорас Russian
Alternative forms
пидара́с (pidarás)
пдр (pdr) (SMS slang)
пдрс (pdrs) (SMS slang)
Etymology
Deliberate mispronunciation of педера́ст (pederást, pedɛrást).
It then goes on to say
Noun
пидора́с • (pidorás) m anim (genitive пидора́са, nominative plural пидора́сы, genitive plural пидора́сов)
I disagree with this. Using a characteristic of a person as a slur harms all people with that characteristic.
"Stupid" is a characteristic of stupid people. Do you disagree with its usage as well?
I use the Cyrillic spellings to better reflect pronunciation. I don't give a fuck about Russian's totally fucking insane grammar. I know Russian grammar. Only too well.
The first two are actually right. Both are nominative singular.
Only "Путин's fate" is wrong. If I were to respect Russian grammar, but again, why?, it would be "fate Путина".
Nobody else knows or cares how Cyrillic is pronounced versus the language the rest of everything written is. You're just confusing people, especially if you don't care about proper grammar to match your capricious language hopping.
Self-censored
That's a funny clip but let's be kind to each other. They were trying to be thoughtful in their own, admittedly unique, way
I wished to call out arrogant behavior in a fun way, but I may have been needlessly hurtful. I have edited my reply.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
In case you don't know him
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Were you confused by what I had typed?
Yeah, so much so that I had to tell you about it in that last comment I wrote.
Yes, I see. I'm sorry. I really thought it would be pretty clear what each Cyrillic name meant, even to people who had never read Cyrillic before.
Looks like gobbledygook to me.
I appreciate your saying that, and your desire to be respectful of people's names. You had good intentions. I hope you have a great day.
Edit: Why are all you jerks downvoting the dude for saying sorry? Do you want to discourage people from apologizing? Because that's how you discourage people from apologizing.
I certainly was, it's like you [redacted] didn't want us to [redacted] but instead [redacted] you were saying about [redacted]. Get it?
Why respect the spelling and pronunciation but not the grammar? Seems kinda arbitrary.
It is not respect for the language. It is the minimum amount of respect every person gets when addressed by their true name. Even Путин deserves to be called by his true name. Though that is really all he deserves.
Haven't these people read 1984? They don't just kill you. They torture you until you say what they want to hear, and they keep you under close watch until the public forgets where you are. Then they kill you.
Exactly what happened
It wasn't stupid at all. You missed the whole point of you actually think that
Easy to say now how stupid some decision was. Much more difficult to remember circumstances and agree that the person somewhat adequately calculated risks but above all made the only possible decision to continue his fight. Check out their movie.
This is a statement from his wife from the Munich Security Conference:
"Thank you to the conference for giving me the opportunity to speak. I’m sure you have seen the terrible news. I kept thinking, should I come here or go be with my children. And it occurred to me that if Alexei was in my shoes, he would be standing on this stage.
I don’t know whether to believe the terrible news we received from Russian government sources because for many years – and you all know this – we cannot believe Putin and his government; they are always lying.
But if it is true… I want Putin and his friends and his government to know that they will bear the full brunt of responsibility for what they did to our country, my family, and my husband. And that day will come very soon.
I want to call on the world community, everyone in this room, people all over the world to come together and defeat this evil, this reign of terror. Putin must be held personally responsible for the horrors he did to my country, our country, in the recent years. Thank you."
That poor woman and his children too. Fuck that disgusting human for killing him.
I fear that, sadly, you won’t have to feel sorry for Navalny’s wife and children for too much longer.
And we will keep allowing oligarchical tyrants like Putin to rob us and slaughter our heroes and communities. If we were better people we would've put a stop to this already, but the framers know we're pathetic, which is why fascism will take over the world. For too many decades now I've seen movements, protests, demonstrations, voting, all these ways fail us time and time again, only making things slip into worse and worse situations. We need to stop playing the game by their rules, but we can't even agree with eachother in Lemmy comment threads let alone organize to do anything that matters.
That's the point. They run psyops to keep us mad at each other.
A big part of the problem is that everyone worships this idea of ultimate freedom, that intrinsically includes by nature of its absolutism the accumulation of power (whether money, political, religious, etc.) Even Democrats and some progressives. Look at America's political system right now, everybody's screaming you have to vote for Biden to stop Trump but nobody asks why aren't we pulling back executive power and strengthening our systems against abuse - because "D" OR "R" what good is the "freedom" to run for office of it doesn't include the "freedom" to wield that power as you see fit?
There has to be a bar. On power, on money, and yes on freedom insofar as ones ability to hoard it via power and money. A handful of people can hoard like 80% of the world's wealth but some asshole you never met across town can't (not to minimize trans but from how it affects one from a 3rd party perspective) get a new haircut and wardrobe because they're more comfortable as Laura than they are Steve? Eat a whole ass.
Yes, it's a tricky proposition and not one we're likely to breach, and likewise we'll continue letting singular nut jobs wipe out huge swatches of innocent people in the name of "ultimate freedom." There's no easy right answer, but
A- We'll never stop these issues until people learn to redefine this extremist vision of freedom
B- Everyone's going to screech about "ThEn WhO mAkEs DeCiSiOnS tHeN?" and I'm going to go ahead and counter that with "how about we start with NOT nutters like Putin and Netanyahu? Then come talk to me."
Just a couple of days ago someone told me Putin would never kill him because that would make a martyr out of him. What a timing.
RIP Nawalny. You died for something bigger than you.
Apart from the known one, russia has a long history of suppressed revolutions
I can think of at least 2 successful Russian Revolutions, actually.
He effectively killed him when he sent him to that prison.
Such cynicism. They just let him rot, bullied him with arbitrary resasons to punish him more and the farce of endless legal battles where no one really cared about the law. He was a strong person, but there's only that amount of pressure and mockery one can endure. I'm sad he died in captivity never to see the change of regime. That being said, he wasn't a coward, and kept doing what he could right until the end.
RIP Alexey, another russian his country needed but wasn't ready for.
Pressure and mockery? Pretty sure he died of physical abuse and malnutrition. He didn't die because Putin made him sad.
From what I've read, he has been woken up at irregular hours, has been in a solitary confinement, has been denied contacts to his lawyers – the only persons who he could talk to. That's from his prison close to Moscow, I don't know what he endured in Harp. I suspect it was even worse.
That man had balls of steel, going back to Russia after being poisoned. o7
I never understood why he did. He had to know Putin was going to throw him in the gulag, and imo could have done a lot more influencing Russians from the outside rather than simply martyring himself and ruining the rest of his life. Now there's absolutely no one standing up to Putin, and Nalvany is dead. Imo Russia is in a worse spot as a result.
Exactly. Going back to Russia was suicide.
It wasn't even a dramatic suicide like the Vietnamese monk who set himself on fire and drew attention to a cause. It was a suicide that didn't really draw any additional attention to Russia, and instead just silenced one of the critics who the world was listening to.
The last time he was in Russia Putin tried to murder him with a nerve agent, and that was only about 5 months before he turned himself in. While he was in Germany recovering from the poisoning, he was able to get the poisoner on the phone and trick him into confessing what had happened and how it had been done. That drew attention to Putin because it was such a dramatic story about tricking one of the agents.
But, flying to Russia to surrender to Putin? What exactly did he think was going to happen? What a waste!
It did draw extra attention, lots of extra attention actually. Navalny's problems in the Russian prison system made the news frequently, regularly reminding everyone what a fucked up state Russia is. Immolating himself on the red square would have been far less effective since that's been done a few times already (there's been a few people who have immolated themselves there already). So as a suicide with a message/martyr for a cause, it was in my perception fairly effective at getting a message across I think. Point in case: we're talking about it again even now ...
As much attention as he could have drawn if he had stayed outside Russia? I doubt it.
Eh, there is more than one man with values to a country of 140mln, one would expect.
It's just that this is not about standing up to someone. It's like a toxic swamp. Like fighting windmills which can and will kill you.
I suppose this was an emotional decision, such a swamp breeds cowardice, and feeling cowardice in people around you (figuratively) may be unbearable. Which is maybe why he wanted to do that.
Fuck bravery, the man had a family. That’s stupidity. I rather my father be around.
And he had an amazing redemption ark from a typical neo-Nazi of the cowardly kind (no exaggerations, his LJ from late 00s and even a few amateur political ads be proof of that) to simply a hero (no exaggerations again).
But he shouldn't have returned. It maybe was something aligning with the mood of defiance and felt right, but he really didn't owe anyone to go back.
And he talks about just a month ago how his sacrifice is sitting in solitary. He either underestimated how brazen Putin is, or thought it'd eventually be some kind of martyr? A real shame he's gone regardless.
I think he just overestimated his health and underestimated how (Russian) prison affects it. Bad nutrition, no sports, bad conditions - some place may be too hot, some too cold, there may be various fungi, and simple illnesses which you can easily treat outside prison are much more dangerous, because prison medics do not really care if you survive.
And, of course, that all is without the administration trying to kill you by sleep deprivation, sun deprivation and whatever else.
Putin is a murderer. 400.000 + 1.
May he rise as a martyr the Russian people so desperately need.
Too bad, russian people are apathetic sheeps, so they wont do anything
While what you said is crass, it's not incorrect. Russia has a very homogeneous population, and the culture among the older generations is to not question the government. Combined with a corrupt, burned-out police force that tortures activists, the average citizen is incentivized to keep quiet to avoid being the nail sticking out that needs to be hammered.
I never understood why the guy went back to Russia after they tried to murder him last time. There was really no other outcome that could realistically be expected. Was he really so keen on being a martyr?
Sometimes there are things a person chooses to do that are bigger than themselves.
He chose to allow himself to be a martyr. Hopefully it makes a difference, but it very likely may not.
Who knows, maybe his sacrifice paves the way for his successor.
His influence may not be obvious or immediate. We tend to think of history as being shaped by individuals, and in many cases it is, but often it's not so simple. His actions may not inspire revolution tomorrow, but his name is going on a list that gets noticeably longer all the time, his body has been added to a pile that continues to grow into a mountain, and his actions will be remembered alongside the actions of many others that form a very strong narrative. Those things collectively will shape the future of Russia.
Also remember sometimes a revolution isn't started by the revolutionaries on their schedule. Sometimes it starts when the opportune moment presents itself. I mean, Putin's getting older, and doesn't he look tired?
I agree.
I just feel like I understand why navalny went back to Russia, despite the obvious threat to his life.
He almost certainly didn’t die a clean death. I wouldn’t want to martyr myself the way he did.
Interesting username combined with your point.
I agree, but I also can understand why he chose what he did.
Yes.
It's not about being a martyr. Check out the Navalny movie. https://navalny-film.io/ maybe they will add English subtitles at some point soon, otherwise it's available in streaming platforms and torrents.
I hope that someday the people of Russia know freedom, something they've never known since the Tsars.
The Russian people have NEVER known freedom. Ever. They've been a war like, oppressed people with Stockholm syndrome for their entire history
One of my teachers in high school (around 1986 or 1987) said that the Russian people were incapable of freedom. He said they wanted & needed an authoritarian ruler.
At the time I thought he was just buying into propaganda, but I've been thinking he may have been right.
But then, it's starting to look like a huge portion of Americans don't value their own freedom either. At least, they seem to be willing to trade their freedom for ensuring that the people they don't like will suffer.
My personal theory is that there's a biological split in our species. Like how some people taste soap when they eat cilantro and others don't. I think some of us are wired to need and want a leader and others do not. The evolution of not needing a leader has not fully propagated to the whole species yet.
This is an interesting theory and begs the question... From an evolution standpoint, which one would be more likely to win out?
It looks like every 20's we have the leader thing win against the freedom thing. Then the leader kind of turns against the followers and the freedom thing resurfacss agqin. But since the freedom thing needs a lot of responsibility thing and people eventually fail to secure themselves the leader thing naturally arises again.
Edit: fixed a thing.
You want freedom? When someone out there is chopping off their oui-oui (pardon my French) all you think about is having freedoms? I thought this was 'Merica!
Since before the Tsars. They kinda got wrecked by The Kahns before the Tsars.
That would require bravery from a lot of people. Few have been as brave as Navalni. Let's hope his death shakes people's apathy.
They were briefly fairly free in the ‘90s, but the experience of their version of the shock doctrine was so painful that the people begged to be ruled again.
Yer, they got experimented on by free market maximalist. All regulations to no regulations. All public to all private, in a big fire sale. Those with money bought everything and became a new super rich ruling class. There was, understandable push back from that mess, but it swang too far back to authoritarian; but now with a new class of super rich calling the shots. Like Putin.
That's not really true.
That's what Putinists say, and what Communists say, and what Western leftists surely are pleased to repeat, but in reality privatization was simply conducted the way that people closer to the "reformers" could rapidly accumulate wealth. More like mafia plundering of Soviet industries and state property.
Obviously mostly illegal even despite the fact that state institutions were controlled by people involved in the process.
"Those with money" were not that, there were no such people in USSR, rather "those with party and bureaucratic connections" and "Yeltsin's clan".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Shleifer#Scandal
“Those with party and bureaucratic connections” = “Those with money”. Power = money. Which order you put it in, doesn't matter. Those will one, have the other, on or off the books.
It wasn't the kind of power people with connections in USA have today, rather the kind to make a phone call to a court or to choose who privatizes a factory central to a town. The short-lived kind, because the properties plundered wouldn't last for long. There would also be literal mafia wars (only I think I've read that actual Italian mafia doesn't have much infighting, they are rational businessmen in some sense).
The point about this having nothing to do with free market stands.
The problem was basically unregulated free for all. A free market only works with regulation and law enforcement. Free market anarchists are naïve. But it was a common thinking at the time. The 2008 crash seriously dented their voice.
It wasn't "unregulated free for all", that's a leftist overvalued idea about Russian 90s. Laws were similar to what there is in Russia today, give or take, derived from Soviet laws. There just was a lot of open crime.
It simply doesn't fit in that leftist narrative no matter how you turn it, if you don't hide the reality completely behind such abstract phrases.
How would it dent anything, being a direct consequence of protectionism?
I think we can agree there was a lot of crime.
The 2008 was a result of financial deregulation, not protectionism.
How are backdoor deals not part of the free market?? They're a natural consequence of information asymmetry.
Former soviet leadership using their connections to consolidate wealth and power the new system is imo not meaningfully different from the revolving door between American government and private industry and lobbying firms.
You don't get it, I'm not talking about any information asymmetry, I'm talking about a factory boss privatizing that factory with his friends, some of which would have better connections with sporty guys in leather coats and some better connections with special services, so some of those friends and their friends would benefit more.
It wasn't any "consolidation", you are talking in terms of actually functioning states with properties and rights protected, it was literal plundering. Similar to the Octopus series in atmosphere, one can say. With plenty of murders, gang wars etc.
No one begged to be ruled, let’s not be dramatic here.
Reactionary bullshit
nah, the collective trauma of perestroika gave origin to putin. only in its chaotic environment would someone that is at the same time political leader, criminal leader and oligarch leader come to be. russian people do vote for putin and his party. criminals either work for him either get exiled(see wagner group), sometimes its even worse to them and their family. oligarchs either nut up or shut up, bought by the relative safety of their families living in western europe.
addressing the reactionary bullshit comment, i can only infer that admitting the mistake of perestroika is a disturbing experience for you. but i recommend adam curtis documentary "hypernormalization" to understand putin and a part of the russian zeitgeist.
Do you always talk down to people?
i always try not to and am always sorry if i come out as such.
Ignore him, you're the only one talking knowledgeably
yeah the other commenter forgets that one is not only writing an answer but also engaging in a larger conversation. let that one be a constructive one.
Most people today on the Internet forget that, which is a damn shame
Answering the first comment in this idiotic thread ...
1989-1993 counts as freedom, I'd say. So does 1905-1914.
Now, absolutism doesn't offer much in that regard, neither does late feudalism. But that wouldn't make Russia significantly different from many European countries till somewhere around 1848. Then it became butt buddies with similar monarchies against revolutions and stuff (saving Austria from Hungarian revolutionaries in particular), only, say, Austrian monarchy still made quite a few concessions and reforms, while Russia remained a swamp till the Crimean war, and then tried to reform itself.
One can say it was finally on track to modernizing between 1905 revolution and till 1914, but then WWI happened, and then the October revolution happened.
Imagine, how weak and insecure Putin must feel to do this with any competition in his country.......
Yeah this is the very opposite of a strong man move. Really weak look.
Edit: great quote from Blinken
I would really recommend the documentary Navalny:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navalny_(film)
I knew almost nothing about the guy prior to watching it, and what happens to him is fascinating. He's not perfect but I do believe what he says and he really wanted a better Russia. The balls on this guy!!
Drives me a lil nuts that when something important like this is made and it gets exclusively stuck on one streaming platform.
They did make it available here https://navalny-film.io/ although without English subtitles from what I see. Hopefully this will change at some point, but feel free to watch if you understand Russian. Otherwise nobody was ever going to blame anyone for watching a ripped copy.
A flame has extinguished,, i will light a candle
I truly hope that a day will come and he will be remembered as a hero to the Russian people, celebrated and honoured. R.I.P. Alexei Navalny.
So the poison worked this time
A bit hard to get to German hospital when you are in a Russian prison in the attic circle
Third time's a charm
I hope there is eternal hell for people like Putin. Few deserve it like he does.
it'd be so great if someone made putty some polonium tea. he needs to go painfully.
I'm surprised it took them this long to kill him.
They were waiting for the world to forget about him.
I guess they got tired of waiting.
What's Putin's murder tally ip to now?
i count ukraine war victims as murdered by putin. either russian or ukranian.
It's over 9000!
rest in power, sir
it's so absurd that a certain segment of the population will continue to defend putin's russia.
You can kill a revolutionary, but you can't kill a revolution.
https://toombs.earth/music-archived/Tool%20%26%20Rage%20Against%20The%20Machine%20-%20Revolution.mp3
EDIT: better recording? https://toombs.earth/music/youtube/Tool%20%26%20Rage%20Against%20The%20Machine%20-%20Revolution%20%28Remastered%29%20-%20eXnbo09kGFI.opus
The Navalny story is puzzling from beginning to end, like mentioned elsewhere his political views were pretty wacky and basically ethnonationalist. But in the west we can not deal with anything more complicated than Good Guy - Bad Guy stories so Navalny had to be the good guy.
But what is strange to me is why Putin would want him dead, and more importantly if Putin wanted him dead why it took him so long. The Russian state has shown to be very effective at killing dissidents in the UK what made it so difficult to kill someone in a Russian prison?
The only thing I can think of is that Putin was ambivalent if Navalny lives or dies, and that the attempts were made by (minor) officials within the FSB acting on their own.
To kill quietly.
I thought I saw him explain that he wasn’t an ethnonationalist but did tolerate such people supporting him because he wanted a bigger coalition to go against Putin.
A bar with Nazis in it is a Nazi bar
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Jailed Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny is dead, the prison service of the Yamalo-Nenets region where he had been serving his sentence said on Friday.
More follows on this breaking news story
The original article contains 32 words, the summary contains 32 words. Saved 0%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
You really dropped the ball on this one, little boop boop.
I have seen it come back with a "Saved -2%" before... turns out there were html entities that were counted as only one character pre-summary, but the full 5-6 character codes were counted post.
Was funny to me especially since the bot was honest about it lol. Like if I were to code a similar bot in the future, I am def going to add a conditional and skip the post if compression is <= 0.
How convenient
I wonder if he really did
Occam's razor, dude.
He is gone.
I'm sure he's dead but I feel like "He is gone." is not perfectly suited for the situation.
"You can kill a man but not his ideas."
It's interesting that Russians probably know whats really going with these deaths, but simply look the other way. The way things are going in America the world might see this happening in 10-20 years (Musk first please).
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/25/navalny-has-the-kremlin-foe-moved-on-from-his-nationalist-past
Seems your comment is pretty negatively reviewed but I'd love to hear the arguments against it. I'm gonna withhold my vote until maybe doing some light investigation later when I'm not busy.
Smearing Navalny's name is inappropriate when the bigger-picture thing the article gives is that, in 2024, a political dissident died in a gulag, which is the real news here.
Even worse: if you consider where we are, it could also have been an attempt to spread the narrative that he deserved to die, which is disgusting. But let's not assume the worst.
The truth is the truth, a political dissident died under suspicious circumstances and said dissent had some (pretty) unsavory political views. Doesn’t mean Putin is a good guy.
What I find inappropriate is that western media willingly completely ignore Navalnys actual politics in a ploy to get one over on Putin. How about just reporting the facts for once instead of being a blind propaganda machine.
I learnt his politics were shite by watching Western media
Western propaganda (mostly) doesn’t work via straight up lying or omitting the truth, it works by choosing what is amplified. And for the past 10 years the story around Navalny was that he was the liberal opposition leader, and once in power Russia would be a good™️country. I think given what we know of his actual activism and statements it would have been a lateral move at best.
That doesn’t mean political murder is a good thing, it just means (to my best estimation) it’s a power struggle between to highly questionable politicians and one of them won.
That may be true in your case, but it certainly wasn't the case in my country.
I'll grant you that most of the coverage about Navalny didn't mention it in my country either. I always assumed it was because it was irrelevant, because coverage was about how the opposition in Russia is persecuted, it was never about judging whether any candidate was worthy of replacing Putin.
If someone is kind of murdered and you write nothing about that and think that it's instead important to mention that his political views were terrible..... Well...
I don't like a lot of people, but that's not what democracy is about.
My bad. I forgot that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights has that exception that allows murdering "certified nationalists"......
"Certified nationalist" comes from Al Jazeera. He was a straight up Nazi, and Russia has claimed its goal is denazification after the Nazis killed 40 million of their people in living memory and there are somehow still people there who think Nazi ideas are good, they have no excuse. Who knows the circumstances of how he died, but lets not forget the CIA tried to kill Julian Assange, that's a confirmed fact about the US empire. The US empire will murder not to protect their people from Nazi thugs but to preserve their tyranny while Russia protects people like Snowden.
Russia justified the invasion of Ukraine with "denazification". So, I don't care what Russia thinks about it. It's probably 60% bullshit and 40% propaganda.
And what is that whataboutism about the US and Assange? I'm not even from the USA, in case you thought that...
And even more whataboutism about Snowden?
Must be hard for you to just write something about the death of Nawalny without focussing 90% of the text on the Vietnam war, 9/11 and the moon landing.....
It's hardly a whataboutism if I'm simply pointing out the selective outrage that give people a skewed and one-sided view of reality. I wouldn't have to bring up Assange if people gave him half as much attention, something that could actually help lead to his freedom and do something instead of demonizing happenings you have no control over aside from starting WW3.
but he doesn't like Putin so he must be a great flawless person who can never be critisiced
I get your point. He is a bad guy, so we should focus on that, rather than the fact that he probably was poisoned for the second time by a political opponent.
We should for sure upvote this article about a video from 17 years ago...
Guy bad, so we must kill /s
And these bloodthirsty tankies dare call leftists warmongers for not siding with Putler's Russia in Ukraine...
That's one thing the bourgeois democracies in the West get right: dissidents shouldn't be jailed and killed, even though it has happened in the past. If you can't guarantee that, fuck your whacky "socialism with Chinese caracteristics", cosplay communist.
Strawman argument. Can't expect better.
Also, I don't see any sympathy among liberals for Julian Assange, who's a jounalist and a legitimate political prisoner.
It's not a strawman, it's an obvious exaggeration to mock OP's positions as being primitive. Stop using debatebro vocabulary you don't understand. Try having an original thought.
About Julian Assange, despite the guy being kind of a dipshit, he has my sympathies, and I hope he'll be judged properly. I also hope the US will someday get better whistleblower laws. Because it hurts people doing good and brave work.
Chelsea Manning is out of prison alive and transitioned (wouldn't have happened in Russia). Snowden was exiled, but didn't drink polonium tea or spend a day in prison. Both of these guys blatantly broke the law, however bad the law is. It's not laws that were invented to jail them. They weren't jailed just for "vibes".
Ignorance is rewarded with upvotes here.
Assange is being tortured for the crime of publishing facts.
https://www.nytco.com/press/an-open-letter-from-editors-and-publishers-publishing-is-not-a-crime/
-Joint open letter by Nyt, The Guardian, Le Monde, Der Spiegel and El País.
Not that it would make the slightest difference to the lib cult.
We all know what happened to Assange. There are crucial differences with Navalny, like the fact that the US hasn't laid a single finger on him yet. Stop trying to change the subject.
The subject was: your smearing of Navalny's name is despicable. Yes, the guy is no angel, and we're not saying he should be president. Who Russia's president should be is for Russians to decide. But he did not belong in a gulag.
Hard to see something if you've got your eyes closed. There's plenty of liberal support for Assange, just this week the centre right led government of Australia passed a motion to urge the UK and US to return him to Australia.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-15/motion-to-urge-us-uk-to-allow-julian-assange-return/103469226?utm_source=abc_news_app&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_app&utm_content=other
Wow you made quite a stretch from what I actually said. Try to understand nuance, politics isn't always black and white. People who criticise one thing don't have to support the biggest alternative
I wasn't saying him dying was good, but I was saying that the people acting like he is some kind of perfect hero are ignorant and deserve to be called out on it
Said nobody ever.
https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2012/jan/15/alexei-navalny-profile-vladimir-putin
Seems like a cool fella. RIP.
A sane country doesn't jail and assassinate dissidents for being dissidents. That's what's being criticized here. But, I'll admit, this guy's not exactly someone I'd have dined with. Not exactly a surprise to me, but maybe some people didn't already know.
Agree 100%
So in 2012 he says that Russia shouldn't spend money on forcing Chechnya to still be part of Russia. And that Chechen bandits are a problem.
Later in 2015 Chechen bandits hired by Kadirov(and certanly with Putler's agreement) kill Nemtsov(oppositioner) right near Kremlin.
In 2022-present Kadirov's troops kill Ukrainians.
Nothing changed. Caucasus is still region where laws don't work.