Sam Bankman-Fried living on bread and water because jail won't abide vegan diet, lawyer says
nbcnews.com
The co-founder of failed cryptocurrency exchange FTX pleaded not guilty to a seven count indictment charging him with wire fraud, securities fraud and money laundering.
An attorney for FTX co-founder Sam Bankman-Fried said in federal court Tuesday his client has to subsist on bread, water and peanut butter because the jail he's in isn't accommodating his vegan diet.
Welcome to the American corrections system, abuses like this and worse happen every day and we just don't normally hear about them because the defendants aren't famous like this one is
"For example, in 2019, guards force fed a Hindu man in ICE detention who went on hunger strike to protest the failure to provide vegan meals to him and other Hindus in detention."
Its not a corrections system, it's a punishment system; unfortunately.
People aren't reformed after leaving prison. Many ex-cons are forced into even worse situations and have to resort back to crimes to survive.
I don't think a system that's focussed on rehabilitation rather than punishment would be popular with American voters.
Countries that do focus on rehabilitation in western democracies, often hand out less long sentences and treat their prisoners relatively nicely. Their own cell, tv, etc. Still prison though, being robbed of your freedom is punishment in and of itself. On average that leads to better outcomes, lower recidivism, ....
But on a case by case basis, discovering someone who committed a heinous crime was let out after 10 years? Sure, often monitored, evaluated, and with stringent conditions. Sure, only if the chance they'll do it again is very low. But still. It doesn't feel right. Same thing with nice prison cells. Show the average American a Norwegian prison cell, and tell them it houses a rapist, and they'll be understandably offended. Think it isn't fair. Which it almost certainly isn't, but you don't lower the chance of repeat offending by sticking someone in a cage for ten years.
Also, I do wonder if these kinds of prisons are possible in a country without a semi-decent social safety net. If jail's better than being homeless, and homelessness is rampant, people will commit crimes just to escape. You end up rewarding criminals, because jail is comparatively nice compared to their existence outside jail.
The American political stance of "hard on crime" is why we will never see legislation reforming our prison system.
Start talking about prison reform, lowing mandatory sentences, zero tolerance, prisoner rights, and living conditions and see how hard you get attacked.
They don't have to be. That's not the point of it: the point is to punish them or permanently keep them locked away. If we wanted to guarantee they'll never hurt anyone ever again, we'd execute them and still do in some states.
YOU DON’T SAY!
It's funny because the little shits like him who think they are smarter and above the law, are the same people who are going to power trip on him in jail. I really hope he spends the rest of his life there, see what it's like to be shorthanded for once.
The article says that he can already get vegetarian and that they’re looking into getting vegan.
Most of the fruit, veg, rice, beans, oats, grits, bread, salad, condiments, pasta, juice etc. on the menu would be vegan any way. There might some mixed with milk or butter, but most is just going to be boiled, baked or fried in oil. Plus all the stuff from the commissary.
I think you vastly overestimate how many foods are made without animal products. I'm not even fully vegan and I often find it hard to get food that doesn't have some kind of dead animal in it.
Well I linked the menu. It should be clear there are plenty of options
I think it's crazy the number is people here who think that jail/prison is supposed to primarily be about punishment. Do they not understand the concept of recitavism?
I think that's an American thing compared to the rest of the world. Their prisons seem to be very much about punishment over rehabilitation.
Former Christian fundamentalist here. I think it's a religious thing, actually. It's very common in conservative religion in America to believe that there are good and evil things and people, and all you need to do is punish evil things and people. Any problems that exist are punishment from God for allowing evil instead of punishing it. Everything will be solved magically by God once you and your society are "righteous" enough (disapproving enough of evil), something which will never actually happen because this will literally just make things worse, providing more evidence of God's wrath.
This religious belief has influences far beyond the fundamentalist religion it came from, and it really helps explain why so many right wing movements are so contradictory and hypocritical.
Everyone else is out here thinking things like "if there's a problem, we need to figure out the solution" while a solid third or more of the American people is literally thinking that they just need to hurt the right people and God will fix it.
(Source: I grew up in the Christian right)
By rest of the world you mean Europe? Latinamerican, African and Asian jails are nightmares compared with US's ones.
I assumed I was largely dealing with Americans on here. Are those other countries jails bad due to a desire to punish or lack of funding available as they aren't rich nations?
I would guess that's depends on the country, all of those have problems with funding, but they differ on the punitive philosophy. For example argentinean prisoners can get jobs that pay the legal minimum wage and all the normal labor rights any worker enjoys, in Brazil they can read books and wrote essays about them to commute prison time, but their jails still lack proper infrastructure and are overcrowded.
Recidivism:
the tendency of a convicted criminal to reoffend.
"the prison has succeeded in reducing recidivism"
Good bot.
I am all for mitigating recidivism. I also think some people are just evil and won't reform. Someone who did the things SBF did won't reform.
See also: This asshole.
I'm surprised there are no prison rape jokes this time, people love those
It is certainly odd, though I bet that's going to change. For some strange reason people love talking about that stuff and even though it hasn't appeared in this thread yet it probably will soon.
Edit: it already happened, someone decided to say that they wondered how chewed he's going to be. You all just can't help yourself with the rape jokes, can you?
What does the idea of punishing people even solve in the first place? It doesn't help them, in fact it actually hurts them. It doesn't teach them how to be better people, so they're likely to do the same thing again. Oh yeah and it wastes resources on punishing these people, resources that could be going to regular people but are instead essentially being wasted to torture someone instead of trying to help them.
I bet somebody's going to come out of the woodwork and try and argue that prison helps people somehow, by punishing them and making them scared, though I've found that making people scared is the wrong way of going about making them into a better person, because scared people just like animals will react, and it's not pretty when they do.
Punishing evildoers doesn't hurt me, it only helps me. What does hurt me and millions of other Americans is when looney-bin cultists like you take the worst offenders and exploit them to manipulate and bully their victims and the victims' supporters into caving to your insane demands just so you can make yourself feel better. That's what actually hurts people.
In these comments, People who:
I don't think prison should be punitive, but I REALLY don't think jail should be punitive. You haven't been proven guilty of anything when you're in jail.
All of the food served in prison/jail is dogshit and it's not ok. Edible food is a human right. People with ethically based diet restrictions should be protected the same way that religiously based diet restrictions are.
Belief in a make believe sky-daddy doesn't make one persons ethical dietary choices more important than another's. Maybe the Satanic Temple can step in and help out the incarcerated vegans. That seems up their alley.
Yes from everything I hear American prisons are all around horrible (by first world standards). This doesn't seem surprising.
You're there to be punished by your freedom of movement being taken away. Not by being forced to eat inedible food.
If prisons are going to get nutritious food, then school children need to get it first.
Yes, you're right. They should both get nutritious food. It's not a competition. Everyone under care of the state should get nutritious, decent food. In fact even those that aren't under care of the state should.
Sysco provides the food to both in many cases.
... Or Aramark
Shudders
They both should, this should be the bare minimum for being a human existing in society.
I have noticed for a supposedly progressive network, there are a lot of posts recently on news stories about prisoners supporting capital punishment and wishing prison violence on them. Very odd stuff.
I'm hesitant to say PINO but there is definitely a cadre of folks who want (for example) food and shelter for the homeless and for their enemies to starve to death in a ditch.
Yeah, it's amazing how fast some people can dehumanise their perceived enemies yet stil think they're the good guys.
This has been repeated in case studies around the world since then but the Nuremberg Trials were the first public use of "But of course the other officers at Auschwitz were terrible people but I am not a terrible person!" The psychology would be interesting if it weren't so frikkin horrific. But I suspect SBF isn't that so much as a complete and total narcissist and sociopath.
Some of these "enemies" dehumanise themselves very easily. Narcisistic sociopaths who actively and openly brag about manipulating "idiots", saying they're the best shit to ever grace the earth and downplay their crimes while laughing all the way to the bank to withdraw ill gotten gains? Yeah, real hard to believe they'd ever want to redeem themselves.
Couple that with the general feeling that rich assholes always get lightly punished whenever they're caught and it's even easier to understand the bloodlust for "proper punishment" against them.
I think it has more to do with rich people getting away with murder because they are rich while homeless people getting the worst punishment for stealing a loaf of bread or sleeping on a bench.
And the rest of society getting sick and tired of it, so I see their sentiment.
I don't believe in capital punishment though, let alone a death sentence.
The thing is, if the rich are getting treated like this in prison, surely it's going to be even worse for literally anyone else.
It already is
Do you really expect a jail to cook things in butter? If they could get away with it, they would probably cook things in waste oil from the next garage.
True enough, but it was just an example. More likely something like mashed potato will have milk or other dairy. Even vegetarian nutriloaf might not qualify as vegan.
Point is not everything that starts out vegan ends up vegan on the plate.
Most margarine isn't vegan either.
Seriously, this comment section makes me want to leave Lemmy forever. Why would I build a community with these people?
Unfortunately this isn’t just Lemmy, or even Reddit. People irl feel this way.
Actually, to Lemmy’s credit, I’ve seen way more pushback to that mentality here than I’ve seen anywhere else.
I keep seeing the sentiment in this thread that if you go to prison you basically deserve whatever happens to you, which is a fucked up stance in itself, but more importantly:
Why do the cows, chickens, etc. deserve to suffer because someone is in prison? Does that make sense in any moral framework? How would you feel if we bagged random people not guilty of anything and forced prisoners to watch them tortured "on their behalf" as a form of punishment? That's pretty much the same situation ethically and everyone would agree it's fucked up.
Yeah I admit I'm very torn about this. On the one hand this idiot kid managed to blast through 50 fucking BILLION dollars of other peoples' money and shows zero remorse. On the other hand, I'm wondering what the ethical responsibility of the state is for accommodating prisoners' dietary needs from medical conditions, religious observation, and ethical/personal preferences eg vegetarian/veganism etc. I don't like punishing people beyond what the court orders, and it is really disturbing when people cheer and joke about things like prison rape.
Seems to me it shouldn't be too difficult to make a vegan "meatloaf" type food that checks all the boxes. Sort of like ordering the Kosher meal on an airplane. It's not gonna be great but it'll get you there.
It's the same thing with the trans woman Jan 6th rioter. She deserves punishment, but it should be humane. No one should be forced to serve a sentence where they don't belong, and we shouldn't be OK with it in any instance just because we disagree with the person. We should take the opportunity to improve things for everyone.
(We can still appreciate the irony of a trans person supporting Trump/Republicans and then being upset that their gender is not being recognized, then asking MTG and that lot for help. It shouldn't happen, but it is ironic.)
I didn't hear about that. I'm trying to think of something funny or snarky in response but I got nothing. Some people 🙄
Wait I'm legitimately confused about this.
I agree with you in the first paragraph.
I'm confused about what you mean by animals suffering because someone is in prison. Don't they suffer regardless of if someone is in prison? Like, the animal would die and be eaten, regardless of where the meat is sent.
I'm pro animal rights and all that btw, I just don't get the connection you are making here.
The meals will (I assume) be allocated on inmate numbers, so the animal will be reared, killed, transported, then thrown in the trash because someone doesn't want to eat it.
More generally this is the weird 'opt out' culture of food, where vegan is considered the exceptional position, which is kinda stupid, in my opinion.
He is Vegan. Irrespective of how we feel about what he did, the failure to address his core ethical beliefs is completely unacceptable. This would never occur if his belief was rooted in ideas of a higher being or afterlife. Not that I'm planning on going to jail anytime soon, but the thought that I would not be able to abide by that daily practice of my life would be incredibly distressing. Unless he is doing it for environmental reasons (I don't know) he likely seeks total animal liberation, and you're going to force feed him stolen animal secretions? Coproducts of dead baby cows, blended up chicks, and beings bred into painful bodies? The alternative is malnutrition? I would highly consider Jainism or Sikhism on this fact alone. Fuck you if you think he should be forced to go against his ethical beliefs.
That's a very sensationalist way to phrase your point and makes you sound fairly biased in the matter.
In the law, religious belief is a protected class, but dietary choice is not. A reasonable debate could be had about if it should be protected. The prison system nor the court room is the right forum, because it needs to be decided by the legislature.
Veganism it's not a simple dietary choice. Depending on how long the person has been vegan, a sudden switch could make them very sick.
And let's not pretend that prisons don't regularly disregard inmates dietary restrictions, even the medically necessary ones. It's easy to laugh at this one because 'haha vegan' but it's still atrocious to ignore any dietary restriction, let alone such a common one.
Veganism is not strictly a dietary choice. Look into ethical veganism. In the UK, Ethical Vegans are a legally protected class. I understand they are not legally protected in America - this does not require me to change my position at all. I made it clear that it's my opinion, and I presented how I would personally feel to be in his position and what I might consider just to have that ethical belief respected.
It's a lifestyle choice based on moral ramifications. I understand that you're not the legislative but it totally should be a part of the same protected class.
It is in most civilised nations.
Nobody said the guy is entirely ethical ¯\(ツ)/¯
I don't think being forced to consume death/murder is the answer to him not being ethical with people's funds.
I think the true argument is that dietary preference is a bit of a slippery slope. One could easily claim that they abide by a diet of only steak, truffles and lobster.
Obviously that is not feasible for a prison kitchen to fulfil. I do agree though that an effort could be made. I'm not sure if religious preference is catered to (no pork f.i.) and I could even see a point of not serving meat at all.
But the bottom line is that you can't let the prisoner make food demands like that and be considered unethical if not fulfilled. Medically there's not really a case here. Water and bread sounds a bit brutal, but it's not likely that he has no choice at all, it's also a bit of an act that his legal team will no doubt will utilise in court to claim 'inhuman circumstances'
It's not a slippery slope. Vegans have a saying, veganism is the moral baseline. Other prisoners who want to eat steak or chicken or hot dogs are being catered to for their preferences even though those actively cause victimization. But somebody wants to not victimize animals with their diet and all of a sudden it's "fuck them". None of you have thought about this at all.
Nah, fuck him.
You can be vegan for good reasons but I feel like he's just doing it to make a show.
I also think it's for show. Having worked in a jail kitchen, they serve lots of cheap food like beans and rice but also have vegetables and other foods that'd be considered vegan. I suspect what's happening is that he isn't getting gourmet meals like he was previously accustomed to, so he's refusing to eat anything else to gain sympathy points.
Depends on how it’s prepared. There are plenty of things one could add to veg that make them nonvegan, and a lot of us do add those things. Assuming originally vegan foods will be prepared and served in a way that keeps them vegan is a poor assumption. Idk about this guy’s actual diet, but I’ve seen a lot of vegans accidentally breaking their diet by eating something they assume is vegan, and then get sick from it since their bodies aren’t used to it anymore. Not to mention the guilt felt by those who are extremely serious about it.
I agree, only because it's about veganism that there is a supportive reaction. If they were not respecting his Christian/Muslim beliefs for example no one here would bat an eye, especially here.
Admittedly if he held a religion that he claimed required meat consumption I would be in favor of not accommodating him. Thankfully, no major religion does this, because as it turns out in trying to seek ethical practice, they all arrive at the idea that abstaining from killing conscious beings is morally good.
I also believe your first comment is correct and the US prison system is quite messed up to say the least. However I'm being very pragmatic here and I'm not going to shed a tear if he personally only has bread and water to eat. if anything it will do him some good. the problem is that this is applied to every person in jail or most jails.
He has been Vegan since at least April 2021. He was not arrested until December 2022. It's not a circus show. The dude's ethical beliefs in regards to Veganism are not in question. They need to be respected.
Ironic he can respect animals more than people. He won't find much sympathy here.
I respect animals more than people in most instances, I've had much worse experiences with other people than most animals in my life.
No one is forcing him to do anythig. He has bread and water, or he is supposed to receive a special vegan menu?
Edit: Also imagine the girl that killed many new born babies, would you also be like: "give her a vegan diet, poor girl!?" BFR
He is not supposed to be malnourished. If the option is malnutrition, or disregard of ethical beliefs, I'd argue they actually are forcing him.
What he has been accused of doing. He has not been proven guilty. I’m not saying he’s not guilty but until proven so, whatever happened to “innocent until proven guilty”?
I have a feeling the only reason this guy is facing consequences is because he defrauded other rich people.
That's what happened with Elizabeth Holmes, too. She defrauded both her investors and the patients using her products. She was only convicted of one of those. Guess which one?
Yep. He fucked with the money.
Anytime a big corp gets caught fucking with poor people worse they get is a slap on the wrist fine maybe 10 of what they profited and maybe 1-2 years max in prison time for a few fall guys.
Wonder how chewed this dude is about to be.
I don't believe his choices are THAT limited. Most prisons will have a self-service line with a choice of boiled veg, rice, beans, potatoes, pasta, fruit, grits, oats. Also, and just generally, boo hoo for him. Funny how his ethics extend to what he eats, but not who he steals from.
I have no idea what you are talking about. I was arrested when I was protesting in El Paso. They just brought trays of slop to us in our cells three times a day. It looked close to an '80s elementary school lunch but slightly lower quality. It really wasn't reasonable. I was found not guilty because Americans are supposed to be able to protest. The FBI felt otherwise when they cut off part of the tape proving my innocence but got caught doing so without consequence.
Federal institutions have a national menu that they're meant to provide. I've linked to it elsewhere and if inmates don't receive it then there are avenues to complain through. And to be clear I'm sure even in the best of circumstances the food still sucks, but there is a menu and there is choice. It is also VERY clearly spelt out in the MDC Brooklyn inmate's handbook on page 13 what the food is and an inmate's options regarding it and any religious / dietician exemptions.
IMO this is SBF being a precious entitled asshole in prison thinking he's above the conditions that everyone else in there is subject to. "Oh look at poor me I have to eat bread water and peanut butter". Meanwhile reality says he's lying. This is merely the latest incident of him attempting to control the narrative. He can't tamper with witness so he's holding a pity party and we're supposed to care.
Also bread and water is a vegan diet, lol
Hate the guy, pretty much, but tbh if it's true this isn't okay.
We never get news articles on how the common prisoner views the food. Fuck this billionaire thief and fuck NBC news.
Jail should accommodate a vegan diet, but it also seems like they are to some extent. PB sandwiches are food. As long as he can cobble together a nutritionally complete diet, it isn't cruel to have boring meals. Obviously JUST peanut butter sandwiches won't do it but I have to think they have potatoes, beans, rice on the menu too, stuff like that.
Just because they're on the menu doesn't mean they're vegan. They're often made with meat or meat stocks.
I think that should go without saying, and the real question is why isn't it the default? Why are we bothering to give prisoners (inherently relatively expensive/less sustainable) meat or dairy to begin with?
Because meat isn't taxes properly so that having a decent meat based diet is cheaper than having a decent plant based one
Sure there are a lot of cheap vegan meals, too, but some of them are harder and/or take longer to prepare than cheap meat-based food
I'd guess the dairy/meat lobby would complain a lot of they didn't have people forced to eat their stuff in prison
Id guess it's a very nice baseline of product-sales
The only reason this is being talked about is because he was a billionaire. Boo hoo poor guy stole 7billion Dollars, and now can't have the lifestyle he was used to
It's funny how we want to be treated as human beings but when it's about someone we perceive as "the enemy" human rights be damned. "We" should not be treated unfairly, but "they" deserve whatever they get.
Yup, people treat criminals like literal monsters so they don’t have to face uncomfortable moral dilemmas. It’s very black and white, and easy.
It’s also incredibly depressing, and goes to show how many people lack basic empathy.
"We" are following the rules society has agreed on. "They" are being selfish assholes and fucking up other people's lives.
Spot on. The very reason I subscribe to the left wing is because I believe everyone deserves a decent life as far as possible, including people who've (allegedly) committed fraud.
Is it accurate to call him a former billionaire? My understanding is that he essentially embezzled ~$50 billion investor money and never truly owned it himself. Didn't he take a ~$1 billion "loan" from the company for example?
I think it's more accurate to say "he had signature authority over accounts with billions in them" not "he was a billionaire" but idk..
what is it with fraudsters and weird hair
Aliens.
what's weird about letting your curly hair grow out regularly, it's one of the regular styles of the world I thought
Could be an intentional filter. Those that are bothered by it won't talk to them, so they don't have to work harder to filter them.
oooooh - good call
Yeast is alive he should go with just water. Also fuck him and everyone like him.
Crimes aside, punishment should not include limiting a person's diet or basic food options. No one's asking for gourmet in prisons, but basic fruits and vegetables should be the baseline.
They should get him those vegan meals the airlines have in economy class. That would work, no? Vegan enough for him to eat, but not enjoy.
Airplane meals aren't really that bad.
It is just that at that altitude, the pressure causes your taste to work worse than on the ground.
So I'm afraid it wouldn't really be a punishment.
Honestly, as a vegetarian myself (not vegan though), lots of airlines these days have a single meal that satisfies Vegan, Vegetarian, Gluten Free, Low Sodium, Low Sugar, etc.... I'm sure it saves them lots of money, but hot damn are they disgusting.
Starting to look like it wasn't a smart move meddling in the case, Sam. Almost as if actions have repercussions.
Also his League of Legends ranking has suffered terribly since his incarceration. This is a major human rights issue.
I have to tip my hat to you on that one.
So let him buy his food from the commissary. The prison doesn't serve potatoes? You can live off potatoes alone for a long time. Is there juice, cereal, rice, or beans? I find it hard to believe there isn't. He's clearly exaggerating the limits of his diet.
It's jail. You don't get to go where you want, do what you want, wear what you want, or eat what you want. You don't get to make choices about your life. That is part of the punishment.
You should look at what prisoners get to eat in France. Here in Spain prisoners wear their own clothes, only guards wear uniforms.
I believe the idea of prison should be that you are punished by you're freedom of movement being taken away. Not by being forced to eat inedible food or food that goes against your moral code.
If he had a moral code he wouldn't have harmed so many people. He doesn't. He's just a brat who wants to do whatever he pleases.
Yes it is. Which is where you go before being sentenced. So maybe don't punish people so harshly.
I'm not saying he deserves a gourmet vegan diet, but a few accommodations wouldn't be beyond the pale.
Therein lies the philosophical question, is prison about punishment or rehabilitation? Dehumanising these people and telling them their beliefs and practices don't matter isn't going to make them want to return as a reformed member of society.
I’m not sure the commissary accepts crypto …
Exactly. While he might have to find alternative sources of protein by forgoing meat there is obviously going to be ample stuff on the menu he can eat. If he claims he's living off bread and water, he is either an extraordinarily picky eater, or more likely just a liar out for some sympathy.
So there IS a vegan option.
Bread and water.
Yeah, I object to that as well. It may not be easy having empathy for a billionaire vegetarian but ….
When my kids were little, they took tours to meet first responders and see the facilities and equipment. However when police got to the hold facilities, they decided it was a “scared straight” opportunity. Part of their standard procedure was to
stealmake you pay to buy youdisgusting greasy swilltheir choice ofkids mealtheir quantity at the nearest fast food place. You have no choice, no reasonably healthy options, no allowance for anyone not used to all that grease, and you have to pay for it. I guess spending the day half starving while sitting on the toilet is “justified” for people who haven’t even had a chance to face charges yet.…. Oh and they were practically gleeful to point out that after a certain time Friday afternoon, the magistrate wouldn’t respond until the next week, so you would be stuck.
I had that happen to me personally when I was arrested on a traffic charge (driving on a suspended license that I didn't know had been suspended).
Bread, PB, and water is a perfectly fine meal. That shit was a delicacy when I was a kid in post-soviet Europe.
Besides, he's in jail because he fucked up his bond. He's not there to have a good time.
Depriving someone of nutrition isn’t an acceptable punishment.
And yet they served organic food to the Qanon Shaman. Go figure.
Man, I guess stealing a billion dollars and getting busted and put in prison means your choices for stuff get reduced. Who would have thought?!
They said jail, not prison, and he’s “facing charges”. He’s not proven guilty yet
He's in jail because he was intimidating and trying to bribe witnesses. And even in the jail he has special access to internet.
Man, I guess stealing a billion dollars and getting busted
and put in prisonmeans your choices for stuff get reduced. Who would have thought?!Better?
I'm all for improving conditions in the prison system. However, with how bad we know it is, expecting a vegan diet is a bit laughable. I'm surprised they offer vegetarian options at all.
I disagree. It's a moral issue. What if someone was wrongly convicted? Force them to go against their moral system? I personally couldn't bear to eat the flesh of an animal. I get this dudes a criminal but like, I don't think the issue itself is laughable.
Even if they weren't wrongly convicted. Murderer happens to follow any one of the religions that forbid pork? What's feeding them bacon going to accomplish, exactly? It's purely out of spite when the object is supposed to be to discourage reoffending. Treating people humanely makes them act human. Call them a dog and they'll act like a dog.
Even the more progressive can be like this. People have weird ideas about human worth being something measurable and thus rescindable.
There was nothing to disagree with. I didn't say I don't think they shouldn't supply vegan. I just know what the US prison system is like and wouldn't expect them to. It's fucking criminal gladiator college. There are some prisons that barely feed the inmates and make them need money for commissary food to not be hungry constantly.
I'm sure where SBF is being kept is a white collar low security place where they treat them better. They're still treated like caged dogs though.
Gotcha, i just thought the laughable part meant like 'we shouldn't care'. Yeah the prison system sucks
"Surprised" is the wrong word, but this thread has me wondering why all prison food isn't vegan. Never mind respecting people's religious/ethical/whatever preferences; why are we wasting meat on folks who don't deserve it? Just making everything vegan would be (a) the simplest "lowest common denominator" of dietary restrictions, and more importantly (b) the cheapest/most environmentally sustainable option (disregarding subsidies to the meat/dairy industry).
(On the other hand, this is half rhetorical because I'm also remembering about a documentary I watched about Alcatraz, which mentioned that the food was intentionally good in part to stave off prison riots.)
Seriously another issue where every country on earth has the solution and America just doesn't want to accept the answer.
Some of the replies here are absolutely vile: if you're going to endorse locking people in cages for years if not decades and pretend that's a justified response to anything short of their being an immediate physical danger to the people around them, then the least you can do is accommodate their most basic needs and ethical positions.
Prisons are pitched to us as places of rehabilitation - somewhere to pay penance and right wrongs before returning to the community, better for having served the time. I think it's a deeply disingenuous characterisation which serves mainly to let people avoid facing up to the reality which is prison's purposeless and ultimately harmful cruelty, but it is the dominant characterisation nonetheless.
But, if we blindly accept the rehabilitation narrative, then how exactly do we expect to rehabilitate people by fracturing them psychologically? By forcing them to violate ethical commitments which are sacrosanct to them, by alienating them from their communities and forcing them to abide by a clockwork dictatorial regime without any semblance of comfort or dignity, by leaving them to rot miserably for years?
No, and no wonder prisons are factories for broken people and recidivism if this is how people think about them. Get a hold of yourselves.
Also, before anybody retreats to the flimsy position of "but prisoners shouldn't eat better than schoolchildren" or "but what about the poor" - yes, those people are also underserved, and we have resources available to improve conditions for all of them too. All that's lacking is will.
Last but not least, if you concede that you care about neither the incarcerated nor the society they come from and will return to in time - then there's also the question of why animals should suffer? If people aren't even worthy of being afforded their basic preferences, then why should the default be the option which necessitates the lifelong suffering of sentient beings on an industrial scale?
Seriously, develop a sense of empathy.
Glad to know veganism is more important than justice.
He doesn't have the right to be a vegan in prison. He's in PRISON. Being justly punished. When you're in prison, you don't get to live the way you want barring basic human rights, and being vegan isn't a human right, it's a lifestyle choice.
Get over that fact and take your cultists out of the thread
funnily enough, if everyone went vegan, we'd have enough food for the poor and underfed people.
In America? many states don't even pretend with that pitch. They want to be "hard on crime" and "give justice to victims". And voters vote for that.
PB sammiches and vegetarian options are available, in addition to the normal food. He'll be fine.
Here is a sample federal prison menu. It's hard to see any day where he wouldn't have a significant choice off that list. Him claiming he only eats bread, water and peanut butter is just a play for pity and attention.
Damn, sometimes I just make shitty ramen and some frozen berries for dinner if I'm too tired to cook something real and don't have leftovers. Prisons have some decent sounding meals.
It sounds good on paper at least. In reality it might depend a lot on the facility. It definitely demolishes the claim that SBF's only choice is is bread, water and peanut butter. He tried this same schtick when he was held in prison in the Bahamas for 10 days. Maybe it was true there but it sure as hell isn't true in the US. It's just pity party theatrics to garner some sympathy.
those jowls do not smack of veganism.
There's no way this chubby fuck is vegan
I reeeaaally wish people would stop drawing a direct line between eating vegan and eating healthy.
Just cause I don’t want to eat animals that doesn’t mean I don’t want to stuff my face with good food.
Most restaurants just throw a salad at you or something.
You can eat nothing but Oreos and be vegan lmao. My dad literally gained weight when he became a vegan.
To be fair, there are lots of unhelthy vegan foods. Just because "veg" is in the name of your dietary preference doesn't mean you can just eat oreos all day
Can confirm Source: don't eat meat, still a fat little gremlin
Same for gluten free diets. Some people think eating gluten free is healthy (it isn't), but cram your face with GF pizza, pasta, cookies and candy and you'll be as fat as anyone else. As for health, my kids are celiac so I frequently peruse the ingredients of these products and even simple GF breads can have dozens of ingredients to give it texture, bubbles, elasticity & taste similar to regular wheat bread.
Actually, I think that's exactly what it means!
TIL Oreos are vegan.
Oreos are vegan.
So are Doritos and Hershey chocolate syrup. Vegan doesn't mean healthy.
Apparently depending on your brand of vegan, some sugar doesn't make the cut. I don't know the ins and outs I literally just googled it.
A lot of white sugar is made with bone char.
You can make vegan cakes, cookies, fried shit. Vegan doesn't mean healthy
And unhealthy doesn't automatically mean fat, either. It's all about calories in, calories out. You can eat all the junk food you want and still be skinny, so long as you're burning more calories than you're consuming.
ICE Cube got swole off bread and water, Sam is just a wimp