Haven't they always done this for corporate customers with EoL products?
Yep
Yeah, this is nothing new.
False; it's now going to be offered to consumers, too.
That's the entire article, you're welcome.
Given that the alternative for consumers was to not get security updates at all, that's pretty sweet.
I'd either upgrade to Windows 11, or swap to Linux though.
Yeah this is good news to me assuming the updates are priced like the service packs of yesteryear
In this case machines sold as recently as 2020 are not supported and for the for the last 8 years since 10 came out old computers were less obsolete than in prior eras as SSD were already common and other than gaming or specialized apps computer software hadn't become notably heavier.
Basically many of those now forcibly obsolete machines bought as late as 2020 would have been expected to be in service for years yet either as primary machines or hand me downs. Basically much bitching will be heard.
Phrased differently: Microsoft announces the end of support for a product. If you want to pay for it, they will make an exception and continue to support it just for you.
I understand people dislike Windows 11, but complaining about life cycle management isn't going to help that.
Will this lead to pirated security patches? What a strange timeline.
This is absolutely nothing new, and the workaround is usually just a small registry tweak so Windows Update pulls from the extended support patches "channel". Same thing happened with Vista, 7, and 8.
Alternatively there are ways to download from the Windows Update servers using plenty of third party tools. It's a neccessity if you're going to streamline patches into your install media to save the post install mess of waiting for it to download and install all the updates that have come out since they first made the install .iso
I'm pretty sure Microsoft has been patching pirated copies of Windows for decades at this point.
Should have figured it was clickbait. They've done this with several previous versions after EOL security support ended AFAIK.
Is this news? This is expected, it's what they did with 7 and XP after those reached full EOL, which happened on the day they said it would for 7 at the time 7 launched, and a few years after the date they said when XP launched.
The 2025 date has been known since 2015 when 10 launched and is the standard Microsoft ten year support cycle for operating systems.
And yet, in spite of this, every single time the tech media published these breathless and shocked articles about how horrible it is that Microsoft is suddenly dropping support for their ten year old systems.
These articles are like clockwork. I'd say we'll be getting them for Windows 11 in about seven or eight years, but they have a new "modern" lifestyle they've adopted for it that's more based on last major update release or something and it'll probably come sooner than that this time around.
Although I generally agree with the sentiment the problem here is that most computers can't be upgraded to windows 11 and that pretty much never happened before.
Doubt that most cannot run W11. Unless you have a CPU before 2018 you should have TPM 2.0 and if you do not, you can bypass that requirement with 1 reg value. This officiall bypass still requires TPM 1.2, but most probably have it.
I'm still rocking an i7-4790K from 2016 with a 3070Ti and 32GB DDR3. While I know my rig is due a refresh, there isn't a game or VR game or program I've thrown at it that it can't handle properly.
But I can't upgrade to Win11 because no TPM 2.0. And I don't have 1000$ to throw in a new mobo + gen 12/13/14 CPU + DDR5 + M.2.
Googled a bit, not 100% sure but seems that CPU does not seem to have TPM at all so kind of out of luck. Motherboard does not have it either? In theory you could add it, no idea about cost.
Have never tested, but I remember there being methods to install W11 to any HW. No idea if afterwards everything works as expected, maybe give it a read and test in VM first.
Generally I would agree with you, as the 10 year lifecycle you described is what's to be expected. With Windows 10 however, Microsoft said on release it would be the last Windows and they move to windows-as-a-service. So Windows 10 not being the last Windows and the upgrade path being closed by default for many older PCs is newsworthy.
Microsoft never said that, though. One person said that and tech media ran with it like it was gospel (and Microsoft didn't correct it, which is absolutely their fault, but still, that was never an official statement but apparently something that was just poorly phrased)
It's different this time because of the tpm + other requirements of W11.
In the past it was never a big deal and people who didn't upgrade from xp or 7 could be labeled as luddites because MS provided an easy and even free upgrade path.
But for the first time ever, anything older than 7 years isn't supported.
I live in a 3rd world country and I can promise you that this is going to lead to a large percentage of the population using an insecure version of Windows 10 or just using mobile devices.
I doubt many people here will switch to Linux, but I can only hope. Maybe businesses will do that instead of buying new hardware. Recently, I saw a shop using Banana Pis as their checkout terminal.
Every time this has occurred before, there's been a very easy registry tweak to make Windows Update pull these "paid extended support" patches for free.
Is this because the free upgrade to Windows 11 is too large of a download?
MANY devices have hardware that's just outright not supported by windows 11. Even CPUs just a few years old aren't supported. I don't own a single device that supports Windows 11, and my stuff isn't exactly ancient. I imagine poorer countries have resold/used hardware in the majority of cases that aren't new enough for it
It's only in place upgrades that are really affected by that. You can still do a clean install on quite old hardware.
My last laptop I bought with the top of the line latest CPU at that time, and Windows 10 on it. I think originally that processor wasn't even going to be supported by anything older than 10, which created a big stink at the time.
That proc generation isn't supported by 11, so really, it was only ever a Windows 10 processor.
I'm generally okay with ending hardware support at some point, but that was really quick to cut off something like the processor that could easily have 10+ years of usable life.
Or a lot of existing machines that meet Win 7's specs running Win 10 aren't compatible with Win 11.
In my case the Intel Core i7 processor family is not supported for windows 11. Granted my rig is over 6 years old but it still does everything I want it to and I have no reason to upgrade.
i7 isn't a processor family its a marketing segment. Every generation of intel CPU has a i3 i5 i7. i7 means you have a nicer version of whatever year processor you have but you could have something 14 years old or released yesterday. I know it is absolutely confusing and awful and it makes it very hard to compare different generations without a spec sheet and benchmarks.
Yeah, i7's (along with i5's and i3's) from the 1st to 7th gen aren't supported, 8th gen has mixed support.
They still run 11 just fine in practice, but installation isn't as straightforward.
This is wild, though I really should expect it.
I have a machine in the basement that I use solely to run Zwift (an online cycling program). Windows update says it's not compatible, but I bought the machine in 2021, so it should be. My guess is that TPM 2.0 is disabled in BIOS, but I haven't looked for it. I don't recall what processor it has, nor should I really need to care.
If the processor is older, while reading this thread, I've seen that it likely is likely to work fine, even if Windows Update claims it isn't, but I might have to install it differently or edit the registry. So, basically, it can be done, but Microsoft is making it harder than it has to be. And Windows update (and the link they provide) aren't clear as to what the issue with upgrading is, if memory serves (I looked a while ago, so I might be wrong on this point).
I guess Microsoft makes money when we buy a new computer with Windows installed, so they aren't exactly upset that most users aren't going to bother figuring out how to install Win 11.
I mostly run Linux at home (the computer I'm typing this on, and my laptop, and my server). I love the reminder of why I do that.
Someone put Zwift into a docker image, so maybe it's time to investigate that further...
Yeah it’s what the other person said essentially.
If your computer is more than 4-5 years old, then you likely can’t upgrade to windows 11.
My computer made the cut by a single cpu generation. If it were a year older I’d be out of luck.
My computer is still way more power than I need and will have it for years to come.
If my computer were just a year older, I’d be in the same boat if not needing a new computer for years, but not have access to a secure system.
In addition, i can afford a new computer, but I wouldn’t spend the money on a new computer just to have security updates.
Hmm, I have a system running a 6000 series i7 (released mid 2015) and it was upgraded to Windows 11 a few months ago.
The version must be more of a recommendation than a firm requirement
The main think about the cpu is having a tpm. You can add one to the motherboard via pci, or your mobo may have one built in.
It’s been a while but I’m pretty sure it was 8th gen intel that included a tpm in the cpu by default.
So, this has been a standard phase of the Windows product lifecycle for 20+ years now. It doesn't really answer the problem with Windows 10 retirement and unsupported hardware on 11+ but it shouldn't be a shock to anyone.
Well, not supporting certain high end cpu's for Windows 11 is a problem. They are forcing me to either switch cpu, AND mb or not get Windows 11. The last one is fine with me, but now they stop support for Windows 10... That kinda rubs me the wrong way.
You're welcome to try Linux, it's free, easy to use, easy and free to update, and stable. I use Ubuntu because I prefer something I don't have to mess around with too much.
Yep.
I'm working on switching to Linux. My OneNote notebooks are the bigger barrier. Testing options currently.
OneNote web interface can work as an intermediate step while you work out alternatives. May I suggest either obsidian or logseq with syncthing or webdav.
As the other reply said, I'd definitely give Linux a try. Even the gaming situation has gotten a lot better though it's still not perfect.
The CPU thing with 11 is kinda dumb but I do see why they did it. They wanted users running all the virtualization-based security features that were optional in 10. Some of those depend on a feature to minimize the amount of times the virtualized parts of the OS needs to swap to the hypervisor and back when it needs to change between user and kernel mode memory pages. All the Intel CPUs supported and all but the earliest AMD CPUs supported have a hardware feature called MBEC/GMET that speeds this up drastically. Unsupported CPUs (and AMD Zen+ which are supported) have to fall back to an emulated version of this feature but the performance penalties are high. When I was running an AMD Zen+ architecture CPU the difference in game performance between virtualization-based security being enabled/disabled was often in the range of 15-20%. It's likely the earlier CPUs from Intel and AMD suffered from far worse impacts. If I had to guess Microsoft opted for the bad press from incompatible CPUs instead of being inundated with news about Windows 11 being dogshit slow.
That's great! Means it won't update randomly without my permission anymore.
Hahahaha, I love this perspective.
I've lost more hours to updates than I can count. Never lost any hours to being hacked...because my security is layered.
Actually, it will likely "upgrade" you to Windows 11 whether you want it to or not.
My w10 machine says it doesn't meet minimum requirements for w11. I'm safe!
Good. That'll be the day I finally update to windows 11 Linux
The Microsoft Blogpost keeps mentioning customers and I've seen it mentioned a few times in this thread, but it almost seems like they're gearing this towards businesses and not 100% average consumers. Then again, they do mention 365 subscribers so maybe they are. Either way it's such a waste that an OS would shutter anti-virus support for anyone who doesn't pay a subscription.
Also, a ton of people here keep saying how this will drive users to Linux. No, no it wont. It isn't the first shitty thing that Microsoft has done to their OS, and it won't be the last. Older and average people won't take time out of their day to swap OS's and learn terminals.
It's aimed at the U.S. Government. There's been an absolutely massive shift to get to Windows 10, updating systems as old as Windows 2000 to get there. MS advertised Windows 10 as their final OS, eventually backtracking and releasing Windows 11 and will continue to make iterative releases in the future. But for a moment The Government believed it and thought it was a great time to bite the bullet and go all in. Now that most major systems are upgraded to W10, it's doubtful from my perspective that U.S.G. will be able to support or migrate to W11 or even W12, meaning they will most likely pay a lot of money over many many years to keep MS providing security updates for the W10 platform.
Something something promissory estoppel!
I'm going to flip that back on them, Microsoft will have to pay me to update my OS.
This shit contributes to electronic waste.
It would be a REALLY simple thing to implement for longer and get the PR boost/spin. considering there are still so many devices that are working that don't support newer software. BRand loyalty is waning and windows is competing with chrome books. That's the shit k-12 are getting and most basic people. Give yourself at least a bit of an edge ffs!
But nah public hasn't made a big fuss about that so of course they won't elect to make better choices for the environment
Gonna be a lot of unsecured PCs about then, thanks to that ridiculous TPM requirement.
I've been a computer geek and programmer for 35 years. I'm the one my entire extended family asks for IT help. I'm even consulted by the IT department at work.
And I have no idea how to get Windows 11 running on my home PC. It has a TPM but I have secure boot in BIOS set to "Other OS" because I dual boot with Linux. I'm not getting rid of Linux, that's my daily driver. I just use Windows to play games. What does MS expect me to do exactly, get a second PC for Windows?
If you currently have a Windows 10 machine, you can use NT Lite to edit the win11 iso. You can remove some of the bloatware, turn off some of the annoying features, and disable the tpm and secure boot requirements entirely.
Yeah, pretty sure that's what stopped mine upgrading as well. I'm not messing with the boot settings, because I don't want a machine that suddenly can't boot.
Dunno which games you play, but Proton is incredible these days, and you can play just about anything with it (Protondb will give you an idea).
In fact, there have been several cases where the Windows version of a game with Proton plays better than the native Linux runtime for the same game.
35 years? cmon man, use your brain then. Install win11 on USB with Rufus, check the box to bypass tpm requirements, install windows. You can force it on anything like any other os. I hate windows 11, but you're being a little dense here.
With his experience (and I agree if this is the case), he's probably expecting issues with unsupported configurations of Windows 11.
I guarantee that at some point after Windows 10 support drops that Microsoft will start pushing features that require TPM functionality. Maybe it will be minor at first, like you can't use PIN logins without it. Eventually it might move on to HTTPS requests failing without root certificates protected by a secure element store. Maybe OS updates will fail to install making these customized Windows 11 installs just as useless as Windows 10.
I've been a software developer for over a decade, and while I will never say always, usually unsupported configurations like this TPM workaround eventually fail. I wouldn't place my trust in it lasting.
Yeah you're right, these hacks usually lead to trouble down the line, and sometimes the tools you need to use are shady. I'm wary of letting some script-kiddie tool touch my kernel drivers. I'm fine with putting in extra effort once - especially if I'm not paying for the software. But the maintenance of all these little things add up and I'd rather spend that time with my kids.
Also this was more to express disbelief and frustration with how difficult MS makes it. I'm paying for this product (three times over, in fact) and they are adding draconian security features that prevent me from using it the way I want to. When I said I had no idea how to install Windows 11, I meant I had no idea how to do it using methods supported by Microsoft.
Yeah but he said that he can't even get Windows 11 installed, didn't say much about anything past that
Hasn't this been a standard practice for decades? An absolute nothingburger.
It's new for the consumer market, with past versions of Windows it's only been available to the biz side.
So it's even better than before?
There's no reason for anyone but the non-tech savvy to care about this. Just like every time before it'll be a simple registry tweak to make Windows Update pull from the extended support channel.
Now there's an alternative if you want to do it officially or aren't as tech savvy. Don't see this as anything but a win, despite the way the article is framing it.
Still not updating until you let me keep my taskbar where it is.
Are you referring to the centered taskbar?
No.
Well shit now I'm more curious. Care to elaborate?
My taskbar is laid vertically along the left edge of the screen, so I can have full ungrouped small-icon text labels for every application. Monitors are wide, horizontal real-estate is cheaper than vertical.
Right edge of right monitor user here, good taste
Technically I do left-side-left-monitor, right-side-right-monitor, left is primary, right is chat.
Probably on the side of the screen, which is also where I like it. This change was actually a tipping point for me to give Linux another chance for daily driving.
This was supposed to be the "last" windows operating system they'd ever release.
Microsoft never officially said this. It was a random engineer
Last good one
Fuck off Microsoft.
I did not have that on my bingo card, but I realize I should have
Man I'm glad i shifted to linux. Not because I'm some open source zealot, but because I don't wanna deal with Microsoft's bullshit and the absolute awful look of windows 11. Given how well linux works these days, I'm very rarely having issues with it, and I only ever really use windows for vr so that i can have a desktop overlay.
yeah no crap they've been doing this for decades now lmao
prime enshittification.
"subscribe or die" is our future.
Seize the means of computation people!
Arrrrrr?
🐧
I mean, that's not exactly news. Windows 10 came out in 2015. It will stop receiving updates after 10 years just like every Windows version has.
Wtf 2015???
Time flies
I disagree that it's so simple, 10 is different because for a long time it was unclear 11 was ever going to happen, the biyearly releases were the new versions. For most of the other Windows versions they didn't stop receiving security update until well after the next version or two were out. 11 will have only been out for 4 years when support for 10 theoretically stops.
Well, I've been putting off switching to Linux for a long time now. I guess Microsoft is going to force my hand.
Are there any 10-year-old Linux distributions that are still getting free support?
Literally most of them. All the big ones like Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSUSE, Arch, etc. are 10+ years old and still get updates pretty much daily.
Debian had its 30th birthday back in September, actually.
I use 11 for work, and so I tried it at home to really dive into the issues I might have. I generally prefer Linux but have always kept my daily drivers Windows....well until last Friday. I had the explorer shell crash on me causing data loss and really was the last straw. Wiped everything and went to Linux, I'm tired of the games Microsoft. I tolerated your bullshit for YEARS because the core of the OS usually "just worked"....except in recent years that's not true and I don't feel like my computer is "my computer" when windows 10+ is on it.
It may have seemed like that, but killing explorer.exe doesn't cause data loss. None of the running applications are spawned by explorer, you just use it to launch them as separate processes.
maybe explorer crashing was a syntom of a lot of the system crashing, and that generalncrash that caused data loss?
In my experience it's a pretty common symptom of a drive that's about to die or is connected improperly. (I had a PC where the vibration from a fan on the hard drive cage would cause a SATA cable to come loose over time.)
Explorer gets hung up trying to read data, becomes unresponsive, and crashes or causes a BSOD.
A lot of apps you launch do become child processes of explorer.exe. If explorer crashes they might misbehave or become zombie process in Unix terms. It depends on the app though. e.g. Firefox and Edge don’t but Chrome does.
That’s why I run explorer in multi-process mode. Folder windows cannot crash the shell process.
I run chrome, firefox and more under win11 at an MSP.
That whole comment is so much not true.
Firefox and Edge don’t but Chrome does.
Assuming you have the most up to date version of Edge: It's literally Chromium. Don't kid yourself.
And I crashed more than once my explorer.exe and my whole DE. Not once have I lost files.
If you have done a file move, maybe it would have but not just by crashing while clicking icons.
I'm glad you think that, but in my case it definitely did.
It literally doesn't work that way. Wait, I got another one - BSOD is a problem with the hardware, not with Windows.
went to Linux, I’m tired of the games
Linux actually has really good support for games these days
/(not sure of appropriate tag for dumb "joke")
Lol fortunately I'm not much of a gamer, little sad that BG3 seems kinda broken on Linux right now but I'll live.
Oh what's wrong with it? It has gold status on protondb.
I've literally restarted explorer before to accomplish certain workarounds (like getting the old right click menu back) and had zero issues with data loss.
I don't see how you could have lost data because the shell crashed when I intentionally killed it and had zero interruptions to my workflow. I'm pretty sure it's just a way to interact with the file system.
Alternatively, if you're only really bothered by the new one missing shell extensions* then you can use Custom Context Menu to add your own context menu entries. I couldn't stand not having "Add to VLC Playlist" or 7-Zip shell extensions, but otherwise I don't mind it.
*Which is really on the third party devs, as they could easily register them for the new context menu.
That's the method I used, yeah. You have to either restart the computer or just restart file explorer.
I think it's stupid they changed it, 9/10 times when I need the menu I need something that requires an extra click, stupid UI regression.
You can also use Shift +Right Click to show the menu. I just hate having to do that.
Yeah I have too and it's these games I get tired of. In this case I lost data, it's the first time that's ever happened and it 100% was caused by a problem with explorer.exe.
Before anyone asked, I didn't have a backup of this data as it was deemed not important which it was not, but it was the last straw for me.
Windows 11 also drove me to Linux again...
Although to be fair, it came pre-installed on my new laptop and I was just too lazy to wipe it and switch over. My (now) backup laptop has been running ubuntu for years now, same with my desktop before it died.
But I got about 6 months of windows 11 after de-cluttering it. Still wasn't enough to convince me to keep it.
I actually went from 10 to a debloated 11 but found the lack of things like....printer drivers to be annoying.
I just had a flashback of trying to get cups working...
I'm sort of glad I haven't had to use a printer in years.
I do this shit for a living. Unless you were actively doing file moves then explorer crashing didn't cause the data loss.
You really need to do a health check on your drive(s), and you can install Teracopy for faster file move operations that aren't reliant on explorer staying up.
I'm glad you think you know what happened. I'm happy to say you don't. I'm also not going to bother replying as the whole point of my original post is that it happened and I no longer use Windows.
For what it's worth I too do this for a living :)
Why would they want to support an OS that they're not even selling anymore?
Continued money stream.
Better than single payments because more predictable.
What money stream? You can't buy it from them anymore. They only money they could make is from selling user data, and there's no reason they couldn't do that after dropping support.
That seems like a them problem though… shitty business model that’s already pushing users away
Remember when TPMS is an optional security feature ;-)
Tire pressure monitor sensor
LOL 😂 Oops.
It's still optional
Well, this is awkward. TPM and start menu position were like 90% of my reasons for not upgrading...
I guess that explains why it was still an add-on to last years motherboard :-)
You can change the start menu position back to W10 as well lol
Not if you customized it in win10. I dock mine along the left edge of the screen. They removed that ability.
I'm using W11 right now with my start menu on the left side...
No, as in, the left edge of the screen. Not "along the bottom, justified left" but "taskbar entries are a vertical list running down the left edge of my screen".
Ohhhh the vertical menu, I forgot that even existed. They took that out? Lame.
Next personal GFX update I'm going AMD and installing Linux on my gaming PC no matter what
But I get it, you don't want to maintain old builds forever. And given that certain systems still run Windows XP you have to force people and money is the only thing that talks
The problem with Linux builds is game compatibility. Many are windows only. Sure you can use Wine or Proton, but that isn't everyone. And they don't seem stable for long.
Steam UI is a good step forward.
I'll just not play those. But anticheats might suck
There are many games that have compatibility issues. I would check for your favorites first. Elden ring, cyberpunk, many others
Why wait?
Running windows 10 no issues so far. And heard Wayland has Nvidia issues
Tbf it depends what you do, but some distros just work with Nvidia apparently
And these problems will likely persist until they decide to fully publish the source for their drivers.
All the trouble I never had was with ATI/AMD cards, never with Nvidia.
And they'll never open source their drivers because they don't give a shit about half a percent of market share. The only reason they even bother maintaining a free Linux driver is because we provide free testing, which they can use for their professional cards where the big money is.
But I never understood people's obsession with Nvidia bring open source, it's not like it's the only proprietary Linux driver, or the only one with incompatible license etc.
Yeah good luck with games, support on Linux has gotten way better over the years but it's still severely lacking (mainly due to anticheats or game developers intentionally not supporting Linux). Even with games that you can play on Linux, they require an annoying amount of tweaking to actually get running.
Steam Deck gives me hope for Linux gaming but I don't think it'll ever have as much support as Windows gaming, in fact a surprisingly high amount of games have a Linux detection system that blocks Linux players because fuck you I guess...
But you can't really blame Linux for this, it's mostly the fault of aggressive anticheat that shouldn't exist in the first place, or shitty companies wanting to block Linux players from playing their games.
As for Nvidia, I've personally had no issue and in fact I run into more situations where having an Nvidia graphics card is better – encoding (great for recording games) and DLSS, for example. But that's just my experience, I'm sure it's just coincidental because I don't play that many games anymore.
Oh no!
Anyway, think how great gaming on Linux will be in 2 years.
My only holdback is modding - it's tougher to do without dancing among wine configs. Really hoping for some innovation there.
I mean, it is great now, it'll just keep getting better.
Exactly!
This will drive people to macOS before it drives them to Linux. I’m calling it now.
You can extend your security on deez nuts
Good thing by then I'll hopefully have upgraded computer, again, and be on the Mint train (or whatever distro tickles my fancy). I definitely gotta get on trying out a few on my backlog of distros to try on a VM before then.
While you certainly can run a Linux distro on a VM, why not just run a bootable flash drive with your distro of choice?
Personal preference. Plus, the only spare thumb drive I have is missing the protective case that shields the actual memory components.
Yarr harr fiddle di dee...
Almost all distros are alright with me.
Do what you want because Linux is free.
Yes, but I like gaming without having to tweak things for every game. Proton is looking pretty good thanks to the Steam Deck. Hopefully it'll be a very solid option when it comes time for me to make a decision.
Unfortunately, a lot of my music software and hardware is incompatible with both Linux and W11
Proton is already a pretty solid option. I've found many games that are labeled "unsupported" on Steam work just fine (for example, Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition with DSFix).
I've got games that are Linux compatible, and the Windows version with Proton works better than the native Linux runtime.
My daily driver is an endeavorOS install, the only reason I keep windows 10 on a small SSD is for GeForce Now since the windows app is the only platform they provide that supports streams at 120+fps and 1440p. My windows 10 install is just a GeForce Now thin client ever since I got att fiber.
My windows install is just for piracy
They can secure Deez nutz
So pirate Windows 11 or switch to Linux?
Or just run Win 10 forever.
I've still got customers on Windows XP.
Join the Free World!
Guess I'm putting linux back on my laptop.. Only kept Windows 10 on it, on the rare occasion where having windows without having to spin up a VM was useful to begin with, so its not a major loss i guess.
Just hope battery managements gotten better than the last time I tried, cause god damn that really ruined my battery in no time.
Anecdotally, I'm running Kubuntu on a Dell 7280 with a 4 cell battery as my personal computer, which gets an hour or two of websurfing and home network experimentation per day, and I'm having to charge up once or twice a week. I dunno how that stacks up to other devices or distros, but I really barely think about my battery.
My laptop can last a solid 8 hours or more web browsing with windows.
when I put linux (ubuntu for the record) on it, it got a whopping 30 minutes before it needed charging. and it royally fucked my battery health to the point it wouldnt work without being plugged in to the power supply constantly (edit. after a week of use, to be clear, not instantly). Thankfully Dell replaced my laptop for unrelated warranty issue and I got a new one with a fresh new unfucked battery.
You sure it wasn't the adapter? Dell has a proprietary chip for their OEM adapters to try to force people to use only Dell OEM adapters. When those adapters' chips shit the bed, the laptop will no longer charge the battery on purpose, just like using a regular adapter that doesn't use the chip (or a knock-off one spoofing it).
An OS isn't going to destroy battery cells or anything.
Ubuntu's official docs do tell you to fully charge the battery and let it run low through a few cycles before it figures it out, though I know people do complain it still gets it wrong. Personally I use Fedora and do not see those kinds of issues over the course of different laptops but as always YMMV.
You sure it wasn’t the adapter? Dell has a proprietary chip for their OEM adapters to try to force people to use only Dell OEM adapters. When those adapters’ chips shit the bed, the laptop will no longer charge the battery on purpose, just like using a regular adapter that doesn’t use the chip (or a knock-off one spoofing it).
Considering I have no problems with windows with the same one i've had from the beginning, yes.
An OS isn’t going to destroy battery cells or anything.
No, but bad built in battery management in the OS absolutely can and will.
and did.
Considering I have no problems with windows with the same one i’ve had from the beginning, yes.
Well I mean you were there but from your post it sounds like you're saying Ubuntu damaged your battery so it doesn't charge anymore. Are you saying it worked in Windows afterwards anyway?
No, but bad built in battery management absolutely can and will.
and did.
Nah, even if it started overheating the battery from charging, the battery should just stop before it actually damages it. If it doesn't that's problematic and definitely a hardware defect.
Then you're probably not going to need the security updates if that's all you're using it for.
Anything connected to the internet needs to be up to date for security fixes.
Did someone say it was connected to the Internet? You're assuming that's what's happening. There are plenty of reasons to spin up an OS to test something that does not require the Internet. And I'll even go a step further and say that the security updates may not even be needed depending on what you're doing if you are connected to the Internet. Most security updates are to prevent things from happening after the user interacts with something. If you're not interacting with these things and your PC isn't in the DMZ then there isn't much concern.
I love how you are getting offended because you think I'm making assumptions about how I use MY laptop.
Lol, oops. Either way, i stand by what i said. I spin up different OS's and snapshots frequently without needing the Internet.
Kinda bullshit, if you have made the patches anyway, just release them you bums. It's your own fault for repeatedly making shittier OS's that nobody wants to swap to.
Not how business works.
if it was, this would be a literal utopia.
Perfect, yeah gimme that
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Just be aware that the tech giant will force you to dip into your wallet to keep accessing security fixes and small bug hunts.
The current version, 22H2, will be the last of its kind for Windows 10, though it will still get monthly security updates all the way through the OS’ planned death date.
Businesses can purchase yearly ESU subscriptions, though Microsoft still has yet to detail how individual users can buy into the program.
Windows 8 lasted about 10 years before it stopped receiving free security updates, but the company decided not to provide ESU service to the much less popular OS.
The Taiwanese outlet The Commercial Times (via Tom’s Hardware) reported last week that Microsoft could release Windows 12 in June 2024.
Eventually, the only way you’ll be able to keep using Microsoft’s latest operating system is to strap yourself into a cramped, economy seat on the tech giant’s big AI passenger jet.
The original article contains 525 words, the summary contains 155 words. Saved 70%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
This is the best news Linux could ever get, it’ll speed up development by 10 or 11 fold!
As if I needed even more reason to leave Windows
Doesn't this violation of customer service laws or something.
Remember that million page document people accept without reading?
The one that isn't valid in most courts?
IANAL, but I don’t know if that’s relevant unless someone takes Microsoft to court.
I figured its about as relevant as anything else when it comes to a company as rich as microsoft, they could send a hit squad round to shoot your dad and leave a signed confession and still probably win the case through sheer weight of money.
Looks like no more Windows 10 updates
I thought this was when they’re ending support for Windows 10. Does this mean that they normally continue security updated for longer, and this is an exception?
Haven't they always done this for corporate customers with EoL products?
Yep
Yeah, this is nothing new.
False; it's now going to be offered to consumers, too.
That's the entire article, you're welcome.
Given that the alternative for consumers was to not get security updates at all, that's pretty sweet. I'd either upgrade to Windows 11, or swap to Linux though.
Yeah this is good news to me assuming the updates are priced like the service packs of yesteryear
The change this time around is not 3 more years having to code for IE9 😄
Gods, yes!
In this case machines sold as recently as 2020 are not supported and for the for the last 8 years since 10 came out old computers were less obsolete than in prior eras as SSD were already common and other than gaming or specialized apps computer software hadn't become notably heavier.
Basically many of those now forcibly obsolete machines bought as late as 2020 would have been expected to be in service for years yet either as primary machines or hand me downs. Basically much bitching will be heard.
Phrased differently: Microsoft announces the end of support for a product. If you want to pay for it, they will make an exception and continue to support it just for you.
I understand people dislike Windows 11, but complaining about life cycle management isn't going to help that.
Will this lead to pirated security patches? What a strange timeline.
This is absolutely nothing new, and the workaround is usually just a small registry tweak so Windows Update pulls from the extended support patches "channel". Same thing happened with Vista, 7, and 8.
Alternatively there are ways to download from the Windows Update servers using plenty of third party tools. It's a neccessity if you're going to streamline patches into your install media to save the post install mess of waiting for it to download and install all the updates that have come out since they first made the install .iso
I'm pretty sure Microsoft has been patching pirated copies of Windows for decades at this point.
Should have figured it was clickbait. They've done this with several previous versions after EOL security support ended AFAIK.
Is this news? This is expected, it's what they did with 7 and XP after those reached full EOL, which happened on the day they said it would for 7 at the time 7 launched, and a few years after the date they said when XP launched.
The 2025 date has been known since 2015 when 10 launched and is the standard Microsoft ten year support cycle for operating systems.
And yet, in spite of this, every single time the tech media published these breathless and shocked articles about how horrible it is that Microsoft is suddenly dropping support for their ten year old systems.
These articles are like clockwork. I'd say we'll be getting them for Windows 11 in about seven or eight years, but they have a new "modern" lifestyle they've adopted for it that's more based on last major update release or something and it'll probably come sooner than that this time around.
Although I generally agree with the sentiment the problem here is that most computers can't be upgraded to windows 11 and that pretty much never happened before.
Doubt that most cannot run W11. Unless you have a CPU before 2018 you should have TPM 2.0 and if you do not, you can bypass that requirement with 1 reg value. This officiall bypass still requires TPM 1.2, but most probably have it.
I'm still rocking an i7-4790K from 2016 with a 3070Ti and 32GB DDR3. While I know my rig is due a refresh, there isn't a game or VR game or program I've thrown at it that it can't handle properly.
But I can't upgrade to Win11 because no TPM 2.0. And I don't have 1000$ to throw in a new mobo + gen 12/13/14 CPU + DDR5 + M.2.
Googled a bit, not 100% sure but seems that CPU does not seem to have TPM at all so kind of out of luck. Motherboard does not have it either? In theory you could add it, no idea about cost.
Have never tested, but I remember there being methods to install W11 to any HW. No idea if afterwards everything works as expected, maybe give it a read and test in VM first.
Generally I would agree with you, as the 10 year lifecycle you described is what's to be expected. With Windows 10 however, Microsoft said on release it would be the last Windows and they move to windows-as-a-service. So Windows 10 not being the last Windows and the upgrade path being closed by default for many older PCs is newsworthy.
Microsoft never said that, though. One person said that and tech media ran with it like it was gospel (and Microsoft didn't correct it, which is absolutely their fault, but still, that was never an official statement but apparently something that was just poorly phrased)
It's different this time because of the tpm + other requirements of W11.
In the past it was never a big deal and people who didn't upgrade from xp or 7 could be labeled as luddites because MS provided an easy and even free upgrade path.
But for the first time ever, anything older than 7 years isn't supported.
I live in a 3rd world country and I can promise you that this is going to lead to a large percentage of the population using an insecure version of Windows 10 or just using mobile devices.
I doubt many people here will switch to Linux, but I can only hope. Maybe businesses will do that instead of buying new hardware. Recently, I saw a shop using Banana Pis as their checkout terminal.
Every time this has occurred before, there's been a very easy registry tweak to make Windows Update pull these "paid extended support" patches for free.
Is this because the free upgrade to Windows 11 is too large of a download?
MANY devices have hardware that's just outright not supported by windows 11. Even CPUs just a few years old aren't supported. I don't own a single device that supports Windows 11, and my stuff isn't exactly ancient. I imagine poorer countries have resold/used hardware in the majority of cases that aren't new enough for it
It's only in place upgrades that are really affected by that. You can still do a clean install on quite old hardware.
My last laptop I bought with the top of the line latest CPU at that time, and Windows 10 on it. I think originally that processor wasn't even going to be supported by anything older than 10, which created a big stink at the time.
That proc generation isn't supported by 11, so really, it was only ever a Windows 10 processor.
I'm generally okay with ending hardware support at some point, but that was really quick to cut off something like the processor that could easily have 10+ years of usable life.
Or a lot of existing machines that meet Win 7's specs running Win 10 aren't compatible with Win 11.
In my case the Intel Core i7 processor family is not supported for windows 11. Granted my rig is over 6 years old but it still does everything I want it to and I have no reason to upgrade.
i7 isn't a processor family its a marketing segment. Every generation of intel CPU has a i3 i5 i7. i7 means you have a nicer version of whatever year processor you have but you could have something 14 years old or released yesterday. I know it is absolutely confusing and awful and it makes it very hard to compare different generations without a spec sheet and benchmarks.
Yeah, i7's (along with i5's and i3's) from the 1st to 7th gen aren't supported, 8th gen has mixed support.
They still run 11 just fine in practice, but installation isn't as straightforward.
This is wild, though I really should expect it.
I have a machine in the basement that I use solely to run Zwift (an online cycling program). Windows update says it's not compatible, but I bought the machine in 2021, so it should be. My guess is that TPM 2.0 is disabled in BIOS, but I haven't looked for it. I don't recall what processor it has, nor should I really need to care.
If the processor is older, while reading this thread, I've seen that it likely is likely to work fine, even if Windows Update claims it isn't, but I might have to install it differently or edit the registry. So, basically, it can be done, but Microsoft is making it harder than it has to be. And Windows update (and the link they provide) aren't clear as to what the issue with upgrading is, if memory serves (I looked a while ago, so I might be wrong on this point).
I guess Microsoft makes money when we buy a new computer with Windows installed, so they aren't exactly upset that most users aren't going to bother figuring out how to install Win 11.
I mostly run Linux at home (the computer I'm typing this on, and my laptop, and my server). I love the reminder of why I do that.
Someone put Zwift into a docker image, so maybe it's time to investigate that further...
Yeah it’s what the other person said essentially.
If your computer is more than 4-5 years old, then you likely can’t upgrade to windows 11.
My computer made the cut by a single cpu generation. If it were a year older I’d be out of luck.
My computer is still way more power than I need and will have it for years to come.
If my computer were just a year older, I’d be in the same boat if not needing a new computer for years, but not have access to a secure system.
In addition, i can afford a new computer, but I wouldn’t spend the money on a new computer just to have security updates.
Hmm, I have a system running a 6000 series i7 (released mid 2015) and it was upgraded to Windows 11 a few months ago.
The version must be more of a recommendation than a firm requirement
The main think about the cpu is having a tpm. You can add one to the motherboard via pci, or your mobo may have one built in.
It’s been a while but I’m pretty sure it was 8th gen intel that included a tpm in the cpu by default.
So, this has been a standard phase of the Windows product lifecycle for 20+ years now. It doesn't really answer the problem with Windows 10 retirement and unsupported hardware on 11+ but it shouldn't be a shock to anyone.
Well, not supporting certain high end cpu's for Windows 11 is a problem. They are forcing me to either switch cpu, AND mb or not get Windows 11. The last one is fine with me, but now they stop support for Windows 10... That kinda rubs me the wrong way.
You're welcome to try Linux, it's free, easy to use, easy and free to update, and stable. I use Ubuntu because I prefer something I don't have to mess around with too much.
Yep.
I'm working on switching to Linux. My OneNote notebooks are the bigger barrier. Testing options currently.
OneNote web interface can work as an intermediate step while you work out alternatives. May I suggest either obsidian or logseq with syncthing or webdav.
As the other reply said, I'd definitely give Linux a try. Even the gaming situation has gotten a lot better though it's still not perfect.
The CPU thing with 11 is kinda dumb but I do see why they did it. They wanted users running all the virtualization-based security features that were optional in 10. Some of those depend on a feature to minimize the amount of times the virtualized parts of the OS needs to swap to the hypervisor and back when it needs to change between user and kernel mode memory pages. All the Intel CPUs supported and all but the earliest AMD CPUs supported have a hardware feature called MBEC/GMET that speeds this up drastically. Unsupported CPUs (and AMD Zen+ which are supported) have to fall back to an emulated version of this feature but the performance penalties are high. When I was running an AMD Zen+ architecture CPU the difference in game performance between virtualization-based security being enabled/disabled was often in the range of 15-20%. It's likely the earlier CPUs from Intel and AMD suffered from far worse impacts. If I had to guess Microsoft opted for the bad press from incompatible CPUs instead of being inundated with news about Windows 11 being dogshit slow.
That's great! Means it won't update randomly without my permission anymore.
Hahahaha, I love this perspective.
I've lost more hours to updates than I can count. Never lost any hours to being hacked...because my security is layered.
Actually, it will likely "upgrade" you to Windows 11 whether you want it to or not.
My w10 machine says it doesn't meet minimum requirements for w11. I'm safe!
Good. That'll be the day I finally update to
windows 11LinuxThe Microsoft Blogpost keeps mentioning customers and I've seen it mentioned a few times in this thread, but it almost seems like they're gearing this towards businesses and not 100% average consumers. Then again, they do mention 365 subscribers so maybe they are. Either way it's such a waste that an OS would shutter anti-virus support for anyone who doesn't pay a subscription.
Also, a ton of people here keep saying how this will drive users to Linux. No, no it wont. It isn't the first shitty thing that Microsoft has done to their OS, and it won't be the last. Older and average people won't take time out of their day to swap OS's and learn terminals.
It's aimed at the U.S. Government. There's been an absolutely massive shift to get to Windows 10, updating systems as old as Windows 2000 to get there. MS advertised Windows 10 as their final OS, eventually backtracking and releasing Windows 11 and will continue to make iterative releases in the future. But for a moment The Government believed it and thought it was a great time to bite the bullet and go all in. Now that most major systems are upgraded to W10, it's doubtful from my perspective that U.S.G. will be able to support or migrate to W11 or even W12, meaning they will most likely pay a lot of money over many many years to keep MS providing security updates for the W10 platform.
Something something promissory estoppel!
I'm going to flip that back on them, Microsoft will have to pay me to update my OS.
This shit contributes to electronic waste.
It would be a REALLY simple thing to implement for longer and get the PR boost/spin. considering there are still so many devices that are working that don't support newer software. BRand loyalty is waning and windows is competing with chrome books. That's the shit k-12 are getting and most basic people. Give yourself at least a bit of an edge ffs!
But nah public hasn't made a big fuss about that so of course they won't elect to make better choices for the environment
Gonna be a lot of unsecured PCs about then, thanks to that ridiculous TPM requirement.
I've been a computer geek and programmer for 35 years. I'm the one my entire extended family asks for IT help. I'm even consulted by the IT department at work.
And I have no idea how to get Windows 11 running on my home PC. It has a TPM but I have secure boot in BIOS set to "Other OS" because I dual boot with Linux. I'm not getting rid of Linux, that's my daily driver. I just use Windows to play games. What does MS expect me to do exactly, get a second PC for Windows?
If you currently have a Windows 10 machine, you can use NT Lite to edit the win11 iso. You can remove some of the bloatware, turn off some of the annoying features, and disable the tpm and secure boot requirements entirely.
Yeah, pretty sure that's what stopped mine upgrading as well. I'm not messing with the boot settings, because I don't want a machine that suddenly can't boot.
Dunno which games you play, but Proton is incredible these days, and you can play just about anything with it (Protondb will give you an idea).
In fact, there have been several cases where the Windows version of a game with Proton plays better than the native Linux runtime for the same game.
35 years? cmon man, use your brain then. Install win11 on USB with Rufus, check the box to bypass tpm requirements, install windows. You can force it on anything like any other os. I hate windows 11, but you're being a little dense here.
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/bypass-windows-11-tpm-requirement
With his experience (and I agree if this is the case), he's probably expecting issues with unsupported configurations of Windows 11.
I guarantee that at some point after Windows 10 support drops that Microsoft will start pushing features that require TPM functionality. Maybe it will be minor at first, like you can't use PIN logins without it. Eventually it might move on to HTTPS requests failing without root certificates protected by a secure element store. Maybe OS updates will fail to install making these customized Windows 11 installs just as useless as Windows 10.
I've been a software developer for over a decade, and while I will never say always, usually unsupported configurations like this TPM workaround eventually fail. I wouldn't place my trust in it lasting.
Yeah you're right, these hacks usually lead to trouble down the line, and sometimes the tools you need to use are shady. I'm wary of letting some script-kiddie tool touch my kernel drivers. I'm fine with putting in extra effort once - especially if I'm not paying for the software. But the maintenance of all these little things add up and I'd rather spend that time with my kids.
Also this was more to express disbelief and frustration with how difficult MS makes it. I'm paying for this product (three times over, in fact) and they are adding draconian security features that prevent me from using it the way I want to. When I said I had no idea how to install Windows 11, I meant I had no idea how to do it using methods supported by Microsoft.
Yeah but he said that he can't even get Windows 11 installed, didn't say much about anything past that
Lmao, I'll be on w10 till they release a not-shit OS again 😄
Hasn't this been a standard practice for decades? An absolute nothingburger.
It's new for the consumer market, with past versions of Windows it's only been available to the biz side.
So it's even better than before?
There's no reason for anyone but the non-tech savvy to care about this. Just like every time before it'll be a simple registry tweak to make Windows Update pull from the extended support channel.
Now there's an alternative if you want to do it officially or aren't as tech savvy. Don't see this as anything but a win, despite the way the article is framing it.
Still not updating until you let me keep my taskbar where it is.
Are you referring to the centered taskbar?
No.
Well shit now I'm more curious. Care to elaborate?
My taskbar is laid vertically along the left edge of the screen, so I can have full ungrouped small-icon text labels for every application. Monitors are wide, horizontal real-estate is cheaper than vertical.
Right edge of right monitor user here, good taste
Technically I do left-side-left-monitor, right-side-right-monitor, left is primary, right is chat.
StartAllBack can do that for you, and a few more things as well: https://www.startallback.com/
IIRC there's a F/OSS version too, forget the name.
https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher/wiki
Start dock is decent too
Absolute maniac
Probably on the side of the screen, which is also where I like it. This change was actually a tipping point for me to give Linux another chance for daily driving.
This was supposed to be the "last" windows operating system they'd ever release.
Microsoft never officially said this. It was a random engineer
Last good one
Fuck off Microsoft.
I did not have that on my bingo card, but I realize I should have
Man I'm glad i shifted to linux. Not because I'm some open source zealot, but because I don't wanna deal with Microsoft's bullshit and the absolute awful look of windows 11. Given how well linux works these days, I'm very rarely having issues with it, and I only ever really use windows for vr so that i can have a desktop overlay.
yeah no crap they've been doing this for decades now lmao
prime enshittification.
"subscribe or die" is our future.
Seize the means of computation people!
Arrrrrr?
🐧
I mean, that's not exactly news. Windows 10 came out in 2015. It will stop receiving updates after 10 years just like every Windows version has.
Wtf 2015???
Time flies
I disagree that it's so simple, 10 is different because for a long time it was unclear 11 was ever going to happen, the biyearly releases were the new versions. For most of the other Windows versions they didn't stop receiving security update until well after the next version or two were out. 11 will have only been out for 4 years when support for 10 theoretically stops.
Well, I've been putting off switching to Linux for a long time now. I guess Microsoft is going to force my hand.
Are there any 10-year-old Linux distributions that are still getting free support?
Literally most of them. All the big ones like Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSUSE, Arch, etc. are 10+ years old and still get updates pretty much daily.
Debian had its 30th birthday back in September, actually.
There are free major upgrades though.
Upgrading from Windows 10 to 11 is also free.
Actually, yes.
Debian has been supported since the early 90s, but admittedly that’s the only one I could name off the top of my head.
Or you can wait for the inevitable workaround to make Win 10 pull updates from the extended support channel for free.
They really want everyone on 11 don't they.
I use 11 for work, and so I tried it at home to really dive into the issues I might have. I generally prefer Linux but have always kept my daily drivers Windows....well until last Friday. I had the explorer shell crash on me causing data loss and really was the last straw. Wiped everything and went to Linux, I'm tired of the games Microsoft. I tolerated your bullshit for YEARS because the core of the OS usually "just worked"....except in recent years that's not true and I don't feel like my computer is "my computer" when windows 10+ is on it.
It may have seemed like that, but killing explorer.exe doesn't cause data loss. None of the running applications are spawned by explorer, you just use it to launch them as separate processes.
maybe explorer crashing was a syntom of a lot of the system crashing, and that generalncrash that caused data loss?
In my experience it's a pretty common symptom of a drive that's about to die or is connected improperly. (I had a PC where the vibration from a fan on the hard drive cage would cause a SATA cable to come loose over time.)
Explorer gets hung up trying to read data, becomes unresponsive, and crashes or causes a BSOD.
A lot of apps you launch do become child processes of explorer.exe. If explorer crashes they might misbehave or become zombie process in Unix terms. It depends on the app though. e.g. Firefox and Edge don’t but Chrome does.
That’s why I run explorer in multi-process mode. Folder windows cannot crash the shell process.
I run chrome, firefox and more under win11 at an MSP.
That whole comment is so much not true.
Assuming you have the most up to date version of Edge: It's literally Chromium. Don't kid yourself.
And I crashed more than once my explorer.exe and my whole DE. Not once have I lost files.
If you have done a file move, maybe it would have but not just by crashing while clicking icons.
I'm glad you think that, but in my case it definitely did.
It literally doesn't work that way. Wait, I got another one - BSOD is a problem with the hardware, not with Windows.
Linux actually has really good support for games these days
/(not sure of appropriate tag for dumb "joke")
Lol fortunately I'm not much of a gamer, little sad that BG3 seems kinda broken on Linux right now but I'll live.
Oh what's wrong with it? It has gold status on protondb.
I've literally restarted explorer before to accomplish certain workarounds (like getting the old right click menu back) and had zero issues with data loss.
I don't see how you could have lost data because the shell crashed when I intentionally killed it and had zero interruptions to my workflow. I'm pretty sure it's just a way to interact with the file system.
I recently found out that there is a registry hack you can use to get back this menu. It’s so dumb that you have to even do this but at least it’s an option. https://www.howtogeek.com/759449/how-to-get-full-context-menus-in-windows-11s-file-explorer/
Alternatively, if you're only really bothered by the new one missing shell extensions* then you can use Custom Context Menu to add your own context menu entries. I couldn't stand not having "Add to VLC Playlist" or 7-Zip shell extensions, but otherwise I don't mind it.
*Which is really on the third party devs, as they could easily register them for the new context menu.
That's the method I used, yeah. You have to either restart the computer or just restart file explorer.
I think it's stupid they changed it, 9/10 times when I need the menu I need something that requires an extra click, stupid UI regression.
You can also use Shift +Right Click to show the menu. I just hate having to do that.
Yeah I have too and it's these games I get tired of. In this case I lost data, it's the first time that's ever happened and it 100% was caused by a problem with explorer.exe.
Before anyone asked, I didn't have a backup of this data as it was deemed not important which it was not, but it was the last straw for me.
Windows 11 also drove me to Linux again...
Although to be fair, it came pre-installed on my new laptop and I was just too lazy to wipe it and switch over. My (now) backup laptop has been running ubuntu for years now, same with my desktop before it died.
But I got about 6 months of windows 11 after de-cluttering it. Still wasn't enough to convince me to keep it.
I actually went from 10 to a debloated 11 but found the lack of things like....printer drivers to be annoying.
I just had a flashback of trying to get cups working...
I'm sort of glad I haven't had to use a printer in years.
I do this shit for a living. Unless you were actively doing file moves then explorer crashing didn't cause the data loss.
You really need to do a health check on your drive(s), and you can install Teracopy for faster file move operations that aren't reliant on explorer staying up.
I'm glad you think you know what happened. I'm happy to say you don't. I'm also not going to bother replying as the whole point of my original post is that it happened and I no longer use Windows.
For what it's worth I too do this for a living :)
Why would they want to support an OS that they're not even selling anymore?
Continued money stream.
Better than single payments because more predictable.
What money stream? You can't buy it from them anymore. They only money they could make is from selling user data, and there's no reason they couldn't do that after dropping support.
That seems like a them problem though… shitty business model that’s already pushing users away
Remember when TPMS is an optional security feature ;-)
Tire pressure monitor sensor
LOL 😂 Oops.
It's still optional
Well, this is awkward. TPM and start menu position were like 90% of my reasons for not upgrading...
I guess that explains why it was still an add-on to last years motherboard :-)
You can change the start menu position back to W10 as well lol
Not if you customized it in win10. I dock mine along the left edge of the screen. They removed that ability.
I'm using W11 right now with my start menu on the left side...
No, as in, the left edge of the screen. Not "along the bottom, justified left" but "taskbar entries are a vertical list running down the left edge of my screen".
Ohhhh the vertical menu, I forgot that even existed. They took that out? Lame.
Next personal GFX update I'm going AMD and installing Linux on my gaming PC no matter what
But I get it, you don't want to maintain old builds forever. And given that certain systems still run Windows XP you have to force people and money is the only thing that talks
The problem with Linux builds is game compatibility. Many are windows only. Sure you can use Wine or Proton, but that isn't everyone. And they don't seem stable for long.
Steam UI is a good step forward.
I'll just not play those. But anticheats might suck
There are many games that have compatibility issues. I would check for your favorites first. Elden ring, cyberpunk, many others
Why wait?
Running windows 10 no issues so far. And heard Wayland has Nvidia issues
Tbf it depends what you do, but some distros just work with Nvidia apparently
Not just Wayland.
Every experience I've had so far with running anything Linux on Nvidia hardware has been unpredictable to say the least. Not just personal experience but those around me as well. Somehow it always comes down to driver compatibility issues, and there is a reason Torvalds used such strong words when describing the developer experience in dealing with Nvidia.
And these problems will likely persist until they decide to fully publish the source for their drivers.
All the trouble I never had was with ATI/AMD cards, never with Nvidia.
And they'll never open source their drivers because they don't give a shit about half a percent of market share. The only reason they even bother maintaining a free Linux driver is because we provide free testing, which they can use for their professional cards where the big money is.
But I never understood people's obsession with Nvidia bring open source, it's not like it's the only proprietary Linux driver, or the only one with incompatible license etc.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Torvalds used such strong words when describing the developer experience in dealing with Nvidia
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Yeah good luck with games, support on Linux has gotten way better over the years but it's still severely lacking (mainly due to anticheats or game developers intentionally not supporting Linux). Even with games that you can play on Linux, they require an annoying amount of tweaking to actually get running.
Steam Deck gives me hope for Linux gaming but I don't think it'll ever have as much support as Windows gaming, in fact a surprisingly high amount of games have a Linux detection system that blocks Linux players because fuck you I guess...
But you can't really blame Linux for this, it's mostly the fault of aggressive anticheat that shouldn't exist in the first place, or shitty companies wanting to block Linux players from playing their games.
As for Nvidia, I've personally had no issue and in fact I run into more situations where having an Nvidia graphics card is better – encoding (great for recording games) and DLSS, for example. But that's just my experience, I'm sure it's just coincidental because I don't play that many games anymore.
Oh no!
Anyway, think how great gaming on Linux will be in 2 years.
My only holdback is modding - it's tougher to do without dancing among wine configs. Really hoping for some innovation there.
I mean, it is great now, it'll just keep getting better.
Exactly!
This will drive people to macOS before it drives them to Linux. I’m calling it now.
You can extend your security on deez nuts
Good thing by then I'll hopefully have upgraded computer, again, and be on the Mint train (or whatever distro tickles my fancy). I definitely gotta get on trying out a few on my backlog of distros to try on a VM before then.
While you certainly can run a Linux distro on a VM, why not just run a bootable flash drive with your distro of choice?
Personal preference. Plus, the only spare thumb drive I have is missing the protective case that shields the actual memory components.
Yarr harr fiddle di dee...
Almost all distros are alright with me. Do what you want because Linux is free.
Yes, but I like gaming without having to tweak things for every game. Proton is looking pretty good thanks to the Steam Deck. Hopefully it'll be a very solid option when it comes time for me to make a decision.
Unfortunately, a lot of my music software and hardware is incompatible with both Linux and W11
Proton is already a pretty solid option. I've found many games that are labeled "unsupported" on Steam work just fine (for example, Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition with DSFix).
I've got games that are Linux compatible, and the Windows version with Proton works better than the native Linux runtime.
My daily driver is an endeavorOS install, the only reason I keep windows 10 on a small SSD is for GeForce Now since the windows app is the only platform they provide that supports streams at 120+fps and 1440p. My windows 10 install is just a GeForce Now thin client ever since I got att fiber.
My windows install is just for piracy
They can secure Deez nutz
So pirate Windows 11 or switch to Linux?
Or just run Win 10 forever.
I've still got customers on Windows XP.
Join the Free World!
Guess I'm putting linux back on my laptop.. Only kept Windows 10 on it, on the rare occasion where having windows without having to spin up a VM was useful to begin with, so its not a major loss i guess.
Just hope battery managements gotten better than the last time I tried, cause god damn that really ruined my battery in no time.
Anecdotally, I'm running Kubuntu on a Dell 7280 with a 4 cell battery as my personal computer, which gets an hour or two of websurfing and home network experimentation per day, and I'm having to charge up once or twice a week. I dunno how that stacks up to other devices or distros, but I really barely think about my battery.
My laptop can last a solid 8 hours or more web browsing with windows.
when I put linux (ubuntu for the record) on it, it got a whopping 30 minutes before it needed charging. and it royally fucked my battery health to the point it wouldnt work without being plugged in to the power supply constantly (edit. after a week of use, to be clear, not instantly). Thankfully Dell replaced my laptop for unrelated warranty issue and I got a new one with a fresh new unfucked battery.
You sure it wasn't the adapter? Dell has a proprietary chip for their OEM adapters to try to force people to use only Dell OEM adapters. When those adapters' chips shit the bed, the laptop will no longer charge the battery on purpose, just like using a regular adapter that doesn't use the chip (or a knock-off one spoofing it).
An OS isn't going to destroy battery cells or anything.
Ubuntu's official docs do tell you to fully charge the battery and let it run low through a few cycles before it figures it out, though I know people do complain it still gets it wrong. Personally I use Fedora and do not see those kinds of issues over the course of different laptops but as always YMMV.
Considering I have no problems with windows with the same one i've had from the beginning, yes.
No, but bad built in battery management in the OS absolutely can and will.
and did.
Well I mean you were there but from your post it sounds like you're saying Ubuntu damaged your battery so it doesn't charge anymore. Are you saying it worked in Windows afterwards anyway?
Nah, even if it started overheating the battery from charging, the battery should just stop before it actually damages it. If it doesn't that's problematic and definitely a hardware defect.
Then you're probably not going to need the security updates if that's all you're using it for.
Anything connected to the internet needs to be up to date for security fixes.
Did someone say it was connected to the Internet? You're assuming that's what's happening. There are plenty of reasons to spin up an OS to test something that does not require the Internet. And I'll even go a step further and say that the security updates may not even be needed depending on what you're doing if you are connected to the Internet. Most security updates are to prevent things from happening after the user interacts with something. If you're not interacting with these things and your PC isn't in the DMZ then there isn't much concern.
I love how you are getting offended because you think I'm making assumptions about how I use MY laptop.
Lol, oops. Either way, i stand by what i said. I spin up different OS's and snapshots frequently without needing the Internet.
Kinda bullshit, if you have made the patches anyway, just release them you bums. It's your own fault for repeatedly making shittier OS's that nobody wants to swap to.
Not how business works.
if it was, this would be a literal utopia.
Perfect, yeah gimme that
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Just be aware that the tech giant will force you to dip into your wallet to keep accessing security fixes and small bug hunts.
The current version, 22H2, will be the last of its kind for Windows 10, though it will still get monthly security updates all the way through the OS’ planned death date.
Businesses can purchase yearly ESU subscriptions, though Microsoft still has yet to detail how individual users can buy into the program.
Windows 8 lasted about 10 years before it stopped receiving free security updates, but the company decided not to provide ESU service to the much less popular OS.
The Taiwanese outlet The Commercial Times (via Tom’s Hardware) reported last week that Microsoft could release Windows 12 in June 2024.
Eventually, the only way you’ll be able to keep using Microsoft’s latest operating system is to strap yourself into a cramped, economy seat on the tech giant’s big AI passenger jet.
The original article contains 525 words, the summary contains 155 words. Saved 70%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
This is the best news Linux could ever get, it’ll speed up development by 10 or 11 fold!
As if I needed even more reason to leave Windows
Doesn't this violation of customer service laws or something.
Remember that million page document people accept without reading?
The one that isn't valid in most courts?
IANAL, but I don’t know if that’s relevant unless someone takes Microsoft to court.
I figured its about as relevant as anything else when it comes to a company as rich as microsoft, they could send a hit squad round to shoot your dad and leave a signed confession and still probably win the case through sheer weight of money.
Looks like no more Windows 10 updates
I thought this was when they’re ending support for Windows 10. Does this mean that they normally continue security updated for longer, and this is an exception?
I mean, yes, that's what happens 🤷♂️
https://youtu.be/rLXWqdry3Qc?si=LItEsEzrkK2DTL2D
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Winblows
Now there's an epithet that brings me back to the old Mac vs. PC flamewars in the late nineties