‘Don’t Mess With Us’: WebMD Parent Company Demands Return to Office in Bizarre Video

L4sBot@lemmy.worldmod to Technology@lemmy.world – 699 points – ‘Don’t Mess With Us’: WebMD Parent Company Demands Return to Office in Bizarre Video
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‘Don’t Mess With Us’: WebMD Parent Company Demands Return to Office in Bizarre Video::“I've seen better acting by hostages in direct to DVD movies,” one anonymous worker wrote about the video.

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I’m so tired of businesses claiming that the only way for a company to be successful is if everyone is in person for the dear dear meetings. We all know exactly what this is about. 1. It’s more dofficult to micromanage employees when a manger can’t constantly observe them, and 2. All the giant real estate investments companies have made is now coming due and they cant fill up their buildings fast enough to get those tax breaks. Why the hell else are they “tracking” people in the office. Meanwhile senior leadership can come and go whenever they see fit. It’s control. Plain and simple.

WebMD is owned by Internet Brands, which is owned by KKR, an investment group with $64 billion in real estate assets. This has fuck all to do with productivity or middle management.

https://www.kkrreit.com/our-company/about-us

https://www.webmd.com/corporate/press/20170915/internet-brands-kkr-portfolio-company-successfully-completes

Fuckin kkr. The ones who got Toys R Us to go bankrupt just to make a buck. They also purchased the company i worked for then sold it to another company which resulted in big layoffs some years back. They can eat shit and die.

There are company’s where their whole business strategy is to get their employees on the board of a struggling company with the plan to enact policies that seem like they will help but just dig the hole deeper. Until they can start selling off assets, move to bankruptcy, then sail away with golden parachutes to do it all again.

It's really just "we need people so that our real estate investments don't tank", I'm rooting for their shit to tank, fuck the rich.

My company had a badge in/badge out procedure, badge out was new after covid. No one actually badged out. They have since installed security guards at all exits and they will chase you out the door if you forget to badge out.

What'll they do, tackle you and drag you back inside?

This seems like a horrible reaction to me, which sounds about corp

All the giant real estate investments companies have made is now coming due and they cant fill up their buildings fast enough to get those tax breaks

What are these tax breaks for filling up buildings?

They don't exist. This made up tale about commercial real estate driving RTO policies has been around since early 2021 when things started opening back up on larger scales. It's a fiction that just won't die.

Can you back that up with any evidence whatsoever?

Evidence, that something doesn't exist?

Here: ...

You can also use this evidence freely to prove, that you didn't receive the package that you ordered.

It’s time for a boycott WebMD campaign. Let’s see how well they handle THAT 👹

Doing my part. I literally never visit that toxic site.

Yeah this is bullshit. Just middle and senior management trying to justify their jobs and all the expenses they've made on office real estate. I've worked 100% from home for 3 years now, and not only is my productivity much higher, but the team dynamic is better and the worker output overall is better too.

I get some people do better face to face with colleagues, and are happier and more productive. And to those people I say: Go for it! Go into the office and be at your best!

But companies should not force the rest of us to piss time and money away commuting for zero gain and just extra frustration and unhappiness.

it's honestly blowing my mind learning recently how many people not only literally love their shitty jobs but also want to see millions of others subjugated to the grind for absolutely no net benefit

to piss time and money away commuting

So much this! Why is it OK for us to waste our most valuable resource, time?? If you waste company time or assets, you'll be fired.

That and layoffs without firing people.

As a consumer, I will now forever remember that WebMD's C Suite is most interested in "crushing their competition" and being heavy handed with their employees. I once thought that they were concerned about the betterment of societal health. This is how you lose your most performant employees.

I can't believe they published this to a publically available platform like Vimeo. Did they already lose their Marketing executive?

With Kagi, WebMD never showing up again is just two clicks away:

Aaand done!

Dude's delusional thinking he's going to crush Mayo Clinic while his employees pass COVID back and forth. Straight goofball thinking.

I am not even sure what webmd does, but F them.

They run a website that helps you self diagnose even the slightest illness as cancer.

[Joke] C'mon, be fair!

It also suggests other horrific, life-threatening diseases as the reason for itchy eyes or cramps or whatever!

Cystic fibrosis or legionairres disease.

Web MD. The website. The website designed to make visitors feel a false sense of expertise about their health so that they don't leave home to see a doctor about illness, is threatening their workers to leave their homes, to unnecessarily return to work, during a wave of life threatening and easily transmitable illness, that they will have to bring home.

I’m so sick and god damned tired of corporations and governments making sweeping decisions with no evidence base to back them up. I work in a field where there is no option for remote work, but I think it’s pretty clear at this point that most non-service industries can be just as effective via remote options. All of this is just about control and it’s so stupid.

I slightly disagree on one aspect. I have read several studies (relatively short term, but still) about how WFH and Remote Work employees are measurably and significantly more effective and productive than their in-office counterparts. Evidence actually supports remote work.

Yup. WFH/Remote increases productivity. Any CEO who limits their companies productivity should be relieved of their job. In office is and should be a thing of the past for most day to day operations.

The companies were even praising the benefits of WFH earlier in the pandemic, boasting about record productivity, and those same people and companies are now saying they need to bring people back without acknowledging their prior statements. It's perfectly bizarre.

They want closer collaboration, there are ways to do that remotely, and do it well. I think MMOs have proven that people can collaborate effectively for long periods with people they've never met, don't know what they look like, what their voice sounds like, or even their name.

Yeah, so the decision is actually counter to the evidence.

They don't care. It's about control and real estate.

More about real estate than anything else, to be honest. You have far more control over remote work than in the office. I know how many minutes each member of my team spends on any and all websites, can log keyboards, to the point I don’t recommend to anyone working remotely to access bank accounts on their work computers.

I don't see how working from home changes anything. If you can do that kind of logging on their work computers at home, you can do it at the office too. Besides (in the EU at least) you have to inform employees about the extent of the monitoring beforehand. Can't imagine how they expect to attract competent employees that way though.

You’d be surprised how much people actually just don’t care how their work computers are monitored nowadays. We disclose everything, even showed our monitoring tool to employees, and they just don’t care. I guess people know by now that personal stuff should be handled on personal devices, such as phones, tablets and computers. And the things they use their work computers for, they don’t care if we’re looking at it or not,

Funny enough, we never used those tools working in the office, even though they would work. But the fact that people are inside a controlled environment makes companies more lenient about IT security, funny enough. Having a badge seems to make computer monitoring tools redundant (even though they aren’t, of course).

But again, I do think this “back to work” movement has more to do with financial losses in real estate than real team work or control over the team. To some degree, banks, insurers and funds own us all.

Even when we were in office, I never logged into anything or browsed for anything personal on my work device. I also never connected my phone to company WiFi on principle. We have tiny pocket computers. No reason to jeopardize my job going on then reddit, now lemmy on the company device.

They ALL are on green screen. There isn't anyone int his video present "in person"!

Totally this. There’s not a single person there who isn’t an SVP or an EVP. And I’m speaking as someone with an official title of EVP; unless you get the team to say “it’s awesome to be back in” on a video, this just comes across as so “because we say so”.

Our team is already distributed across 8 time zones and 5 countries; why do we need to be in the office to sit in the same calls across our regions?

There are some jobs that are much better done in person and then there are jobs that aren’t. For most roles, some tasks in that role is better in person, for some tasks it doesn’t make a difference and for some tasks it’s specifically better to be remote.

A video like this needs to explain WHY - and with more than just “we are better together!”; ok, but why?

And poorly executed at that ... Each exec kept moving to completely different background scenes each time they showed up, one they botched so badly they made it look like he was standing in the counter... It's like they didn't even care enough to try

And that was the weirdest "happy dance" the "employees" were doing at the end

Jesus. What fucking lunatics. That video never needed to exist. Just be like every other corp and send an email. At least that news story would have blended in with all the other RTO trash.

Now I’ll just forever remember that webMDs parent company is operated by unhinged boomers.

I remember WebMD was one of the most chaotic places I worked at. It was 2000-2001 and there was a president Marv Rich and a CEO Marty Wygod. They were both building duplicate ERP systems that basically did the same thing. One day, my boss Al was in a meeting, and they told him that he needed us to move the data center to the East Coast. The most valuable part was a bunch of big EMC Symmetrix arrays with all their data. He was freaking out because he got into an argument about loading all of them into one airplane, and he didn't want to do it. He was telling them that if the airplane goes down, all of WebMD would be gone, and it needed to be loaded onto two airplanes. I don't know why, but for some reason, that story always reminded me of my time at WebMD.

The one time I moved a data center, we did it in two trucks for this very reason. Of course, it wouldn't have been the whole organization lost, we had more than one data center. But yeah - the two planes part of this story makes complete sense to me.

Yeah, I feel like the part about developing two different systems to apparently do the same thing, was much stupider.

The planes were protection against an incredibly slim chance considering how incredibly safe air travel is (dramatically more likely to lose them in a truck accident on the way to or from the airport than on the plane), while the two different systems were guaranteed to be a massive waste of resources and time

Do you want more unions?

This is how you get more unions.

Fuck around and find out. I'm ok with more unions.

Make all of us mad and put us all in close proximity. Good idea. Not one of us will consider googling "how to form a union" with a few coworkers. It's probably too hard to do anyways (it isn't).

WebMD? They realize we’re in the midst of a Covid resurgence, right? You’d think a company like that would be a bit more understanding of stuff like that, given that they’re supposed to be experts on medicine and all.

I know a few people getting RSV. They've been out of work for like a month.

Last year I was sick for 7 weeks with covid, RSV, the flu, and then covid again. I had to go to work while still sick with covid because I was out of sick time, even though their own policies should have prevented me from returning. I told all my coworkers to stay away from me and avoided them like I had the plague, because I essentially did. Had I actually not cared about other people's health, I could have lied and destroyed the entire department for months with recurring spreading illness.

I had to have a meeting where I was being threatened with a PIP for attendance, while I was still sick and wearing a mask, for my job at a vaccine laboratory.

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Return to the office isn't about medicine, it's about entitled executives power tripping over the workers. At every medium/large company I worked for, upper management lived in its own bubble completely disconnected from the rest. I can give so many examples of poor decisions made by upper management that had a huge negative impact on the company and especially the workers. But regardless, they never gave a shit about our opinions and feedback. They didn't even tell us why they made those decisions.

It's about corporate real estate, profit margins, taxes, banks, interest rates, the economy, and more.

WFH has completely changed the economic landscape, and virtually all industries are impacted.

I embrace the change. Business men with shareholders do not. Banks with trillions of dollars in corporate mortgages and leases also do not. Etc.

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Are they in front of green screens? Did he not even bother to come into the office to record this?

I love response to the backlash. It's basically "Sorry our video was cringy and tonedeaf. We have removed the cringe."

Did they change the video? I was at least impressed that they acknowledged the interest in the video but didn’t realise they might also have made changes.

They did, and I quote:

As to comments/criticisms on the tone/style, Yeah, corporate videos are corporate videos!” the company then said, adding a shrug emoji.

Source

I saw the original and the changed one. The only thing that it seems they’ve changed is to add the precursor message, acknowledging the palaver. The rest of the video looked the same.

Ok. Fair point. I guess I should say, they addressed their cringe. But I still thought it seemed like they were feigning concerned but actually doubling down.

Is there a web site out there that can help me determine what kind of cancer that video gave me?

People who haven't come in to the office yet do it for a reason. They like it. They are happier. Happier employees are better employees.

They get more sleep so they are more alert or have more time for hobbies and recreation. They don't have to spend as much on gas or childcare. They don't use the office's electricity, water, facilities, coffee/snacks.

Make it a choice. For the betterment of humanity and the planet.

When someone makes videos like this, you don't get the best people to come work for your company, you get the most desperate.

But then again, maybe that's what they want. Idiots.

I am with you on almost all of that. Depending on the age of the child, I don’t think you should be tending to a child if you’re WFH.

Let the corporate whips crack! Let the slaves fall back in line! We want profits!

Because you're awesome, important to us, we care about your well being. We are a big family after all!

Being in the office ≠ more profit

It in fact takes away from the workers profit.

It doesen't matter that much, corporate ghouls have justified their existance!

My wife is a business analyst and software tester (not for WebMD) and still gets awards and bonuses for excellence, even while she’s worked at home during Covid.

This guy needs to explain to me why she should be forced back into the office to improve her performance.

Because he means business! Don't forget who thinks they're in charge here.

They run a semi-reputable health website which people use for mostly static information that rarely changes. How many new ideas do they really need?

How does creating a web page take so many people?

Creating the website is more or less a solved problem, but they have to keep coming up with new ways to exploit the website's visitors for profit. The demand for infinite growth is never satiated.

Tech company executives who ignore data need to be held accountable for their actions by their employees. People need to stand up and stop being sheep.

Exactly. It's time to stand up while we can.

We can't let these fucks take over the entire reality with their own "version" which is complete bullshit.

Lol I used to work for a company that has been bought and renamed several times and now is under the WebMD umbrella. They were trying that "remote work is bad" be a decade ago, and it's funny that now they are part of a larger company that still isn't with the times.

Bullshit to the "We are more productive when together " line.

No, they are not. Commutes eat into productivity big time. It would take my wife sometimes 2+ hours to get into work in Boston. Now, she puts the kids onto the bus and logs in. Last year, they even said they were the most productive they've been in the companies history (200 plus years, mind you).

Now it's "We need to be in person to be more productive" bullshit. These assholes sunk too much money into corporate real estate.

Plus, let's be real, most in person interactions with coworkers are not productive. I worked at home and then hybrid from June 2020-October 2021 and was far more productive on my at home days. Everyone spent about half their in office days socializing and then went home and actually got stuff done. My job is entirely in person now and some of the projects I do are taking way longer just because there are constant distractions in the office and they put me literally in the middle of the room. I kind of don't even care because if they want me there, those are the consequences.

Seriously... This is just far past a breaking point for even reasonable people... We need to organize and remind these people of the size of both sides of this conversation. What the fuck...

Have a read/watch of this other asshole CEO going on an unhinged rant about return to office earlier last year.

Interesting. I hadn't seen that. Dude looked like he was on some kind of upper but the supercut didn't do him any favors.

I watched the video and I didn't hear any real facts or reasoning, it's just a hype video. Rinse and repeat statements from your favorite gigantic corporations.

Because they don't need real facts or reasoning. ARE YOU QUESTIONING MANAGEMENT?!?!

Having been in the corporate world for 14 years, they're all awful, they're all dysfunctional. I just got written up for saying "It's demoralizing for people when the company has a hiring and pay freeze." I'm allowed to say it, just not in public ... They're all awful.

I'm honestly more stunned that this is an internet company. They didn't think this was a bad idea to post to Vimeo?

This is is some Black Mirror shit.

Not really. This is typical boomer behavior. They're old stupid brains can't wrap their heads around the idea that offices are outdated unneeded concepts in the new digital age. They actually think remote work is somehow losing money for them because workers aren't getting dressed up and commuting to the office. That somehow by not coming to the office workers are being lazy and not working hard enough for them. And their dumb boomer brains refuse to acknowledge the mountain of evidence that shows that remote workers are actually tremendously more productive than in-office workers

This is typical boomer behavior.

"Boomer"? I don't know if any of the people in that video was old enough to be a boomer. Heck, most of the execs were definitely under 50.

I don't think ageism is the answer to the problem. here.

There's ample evidence this is "stupid corporate culture" shit.

The people in the video are either actors or peons, the person who made the policy is the boomer and he is definitely old enough.

Dude in his boxers is late for the no-pants subway ride, which only people who work in person participate in. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Pants_Subway_Ride

Here's the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:

The No Pants Subway Ride (or No Trousers on the Tube Ride in the UK) is an annual event where people ride rapid transit or subway while they are not wearing pants. Beginning in New York in 2002, the event spread to as many as sixty cities as of 2013.

^to^ ^opt^ ^out^^,^ ^pm^ ^me^ ^'optout'.^ ^article^ ^|^ ^about^

It's great how all the executives recorded their videos not in the actual office.

"We're not asking we're informing" lollll

Having said that... People working from home has been the biggest frustration in my work for the past three years. I specifically picked a company where people like to come in, and are required to for at least three days. I want to work with people, not anonymous voices with cameras switched off not responding to calls and messages (I'm sure they're all hard at work lmao)

Incidentally you're one of the reasons the majority of workers don't want to return to the office.

That's fine, they can work somewhere else

Oh and they will. And when you're company loses the best and brightest in the field because no one enjoys spending time and money going to the office. If it's that important, why doesn't your company pay for everyone to drive to and from work (covering gas, car repairs, and allowing employees to clock in when they start their commute.)Also, pay for everyone's lunch since they have to be there.

I’ll say this. What works for you doesn’t always work for everyone else, and I feel like that’s kind of the point. The CEO/CFO cares more about bringing people back to the office than they do about their employees. I hear you, it’s healthy to interact with people, and If that’s what you need awesome. But a lot of other people don’t feel that same way. I think it’s going to take tolerance on both sides for this paradigm shift to be a success.

It depends on the kind of work you do. My work is very collaborative, and despite trying I've not found online collaboration as effective.

It doesn't help that the people working from home seem to have very different priorities.

It sounds like your working environment is a bit shit and I'd wager that it's not because there are remote workers.

I have to be arbitrarily in the office 1-2 days a week. Its absolutely collaborative work and I have 3-4 different "stand up" meetings a day for various teams. Well, when I'm in the office thise happen with everyone sat at their own desk on Zoom because the team is not all in one location. Being in the office feels completely pointless and there's literally not one task I do that can't be performed from home.

Dude, I’m in that same boat. So much of my team is remote that when I do come into the office all my meetings are still on zoom. I like how you put it, “I’m arbitrarily in the office”

This is entirely a cultural problem if that's what you experience with remote employees.

My company is remote-first with WeWorks for those who want them. Every meeting 90% of people have their cameras on, and the other 10% are either attending to something more important than the meeting or just not feeling it that day. No one questions them or gets onto them because we're not children.

If many people regularly have their cameras off in meetings then maybe your meeting isn't worth their full attention, and they're working on something else. Not every meeting needs everyone to be there. I'd wager part of the reason my company doesn't have this problem is we have an extremely low meeting culture. Impromptu meetings/discussions are encouraged and we often Slack huddle for 5-10 minutes when needed which cuts out a lot of the bullshit.

At my prior job we accounted for 2 hours a day of meetings when planning and it was a fucking drag. Now I have 3 1/2 hours of recurring meetings per week, with a sync for new projects/initiatives every few weeks. I get so much more done every day because I'm not listening to an endless stream of information which should have been an email.

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