I was proud to vote for Bernie in the 2016 and 2020 primaries, but I bit the bullet and phone banked for Biden even though he was far from my first choice. There's way too much at stake here.
Yes. Better Biden than Trump but Bernie would have been better.
I volunteered for Sanders campaign but didn't do anything for Biden. He didn't earn my vote. Democracy at work.
I honestly get where you are coming from. I protest voted green party in 2016 thinking Hillary had the election in the bag - and felt terrible afterwards. Voted for Biden in 2020 even though he was low on my list. Without seriously overhauling our voting process to ranked choice or STAR voting, not voting for one of the major party candidates just helps the other.
Depends on where you are, I voted sanders, but since my area and state went Democrat it didn't really matter. It's not like it's entirely popular vote.
Maybe I’m a naive idealist, but, in the age of social media I actually tend to disagree. If there’s ever a time that a 3rd party could be plausible, it’s now. Everyone hates both sides, social media and the internet gives anyone a platform.
The notion that you cannot vote for anyone else is and has been pedaled by both sides for too long. It’s tired and false.
I don’t see either party being willing to pass something that in-essence, weakens their stance, so voting reform is likely dead.
Idk, this country is fucked. Like I can even easily go counter myself as I type this. You’re probably right. I just don’t want to believe it. I’ll likely be voting democrat anyway, simply cause my soul knows you’re right. Fuck.
I'm all for having choices outside of our de-facto two party system, but the reality is that the more progressive candidates we have, the more it splits the progressive vote. Our adversaries know this, as part of the Russian election interference involved social media posts encouraging progressives to vote for Green Party candidate Jill Stein. Stein claims she had no involvement, but there have been accusations that she has ties to Russia, particularly stemming from this gala she attended. A senate investigation found no wrongdoing on her part, however.
there is no evidence she was aware. this is slander.
Which part of my comment could be considered slander? I thought I was presenting the facts as they are, and even mentioned that she denied any knowledge of the Russian election interference done to promote her campaign and split the progressive vote.
you said there is evidence she was aware. that's not true.
Fair enough. I've updated my comment.
Blame the candidate that works for the people. Not voting for Biden helps Trump? I guess not voting for Trump helps Biden too then?
If you're a conservative voter and you refuse to vote for Trump for one reason or another then it does help Biden. The problem is that conservatives are rallying behind Trump pretty much regardless of what he does, while progressives are infighting about whether to vote for Biden because of his stance with Israel.
Not voting for the lesser of two evils helps the greater evil, whoever you think that might be in this election
100 million voters don't vote in the US.
Who did you vote for? Or did you just not vote?
I voted down ballot Dem except POTUS which I voted third party. I'm in California.
In the past few elections, voting feels more like a hostage situation than exercising my right to making a “choice”. This country is absolutely fucked if Trump is elected again.
We need to focus on smaller winnable races. Unfortunately we can't shortcut our way into the presidential candidates we want, we need to replace the establishment and build a foundation of allies to support it. I know a lot of us are in conservative areas where you can't realistically get new candidates elected locally, but you can still volunteer for races in other parts of the country. If we can shift politics in the house and Senate the presidency will follow. It's hard work but it's possible.
Easier said than done I know but if Trump wins my wife and I would strongly consider emigrating to another country. There's only so much insanity one can take before needlessly going down with the ship. And if the calculus is that that my kids will have better prospects elsewhere, then so be it.
You're assuming that 1st world countries will have us.
Fascism is on the rise globally. If enough decent people leave the US, we will fall into a fascist regime, and it will be the beginning of World War Three, with the US leading the equivalent of the Axis powers. No place in the world will be safe for you or your children. That's the hard, honest truth.
With my partner, friends, and I being "degenerates" and likely the first group the fascists genocide... nope, see ya, I'm out. We already are experiencing the low-tide effects of genocide and while people aren't in droves killing us yet, there are state allowed murders seemingly popping up and medical genocides creeping into the states. It's only a matter of time and there is effectively nothing I can do, so for the lives of my family, friends, and I, we will be doing whatever it takes to get out before it really starts.
You must do what you feel is right, of course. I disagree that it is inevitable, I disagree that there is nothing you can do, and as I said above, I doubt that, should it happen, anybody will be safe, anywhere; but I wish you and yours safety and peace, wherever you go.
I'll be in my 3rdW country eating popcorn
Yes. That's the end game of our type of voting system. You get two options and both suck.
We will get no progress until we get something like ranked choice voting.
Which we won’t get, because it doesn’t benefit the right people
If we can at least get 2 dems in a row in office we can begin to claw the Overton window back from the fascist side. It'd be a start at least
This is the part too may people fail to understand. The same reason Trump wasn't able to completely dismantle democracy in 4 years is why Dems can't check every progressive box in 4 years. The system is designed to require a decade or more of electoral success to enact real change. Otherwise you'd just have an unsustainable political yoyo.
Even then, Trump winning one time has completely fucked the Supreme Court, and US democracy will unequivocally not survive another Trump pick. A ton of allegedly left leaning people here seem suspiciously enthusiastic about that prospect.
Wtf? Civil Rights?
Bless your heart.❤️
Obligatory CGP Grey video about the inevitability of a 2-party system
That's my favorite. I've watched it more than a few times
It always has been.
We might be tempted to think that our Democratic heritage automatically protects us from such threats. This is a misguided reflex. In fact, the precedent set by the founders demand that we examine history to understand the deep sources of tyranny and consider the proper responses to it. - On Tyranny by Timothy Snyder (Chapter 1, Page 13)
Citizens United needs to be removed.
The massive polarisation in the media needs to be addressed and the outright blatant lies told by the Rightwing goons needs to be legally stopped. ‘Free Speech’ my ass. They need to be labelled ‘opinion’ or ‘entertainment’ or something other than pretending to be ‘fair’ or ‘news’.
I think an "equal air time" law that requires that corrections to misinformation and disinformation be provided at the same scope, scale and duration as the offending material. Since Fox news backed down on their dominion case, they ought to reprint every article, rehost every show and re-run every ribbon and banner on all of their platforms for next 3 years, admitting that they lied, linking sources to proof of their lies, and advising everyone that 2020 had no meaningful amounts of voter fraud on either side. Failure to do so should be fined at a rate of 1000 dollars per second of missed remediation time.
Unfortunately the law would've never applied to fox news, as it was broadcast only and cable was exempt. But even so nowadays so much of the information sphere is online, through Facebook, Twitter and the thousand different right wing blog news sites that you aren't really going to be able to stop anything. The American system very dependent on the two parties having a bipartisan consensus. But after a few decades of the right wing media sphere whipping the base into frenzy after frenzy the 'true believers' are the ones in government now and the idea of compromise is done for.
That all breaks down though when you can point to foreign actors stirring the pot. Republicans are really letting other countries decide their fate at this point
The massive polarisation in the media needs to be addressed and the outright blatant lies told by the Rightwing goons needs to be legally stopped. ‘Free Speech’ my ass. They need to be labelled ‘opinion’ or ‘entertainment’ or something other than pretending to be ‘fair’ or ‘news’.
Replace "rightwing goons" with "leftwing commies" and this is exactly Trump's plan lmao. Do you not see how that is a problem?
What left wing media empire has spread lies so much as to be sued for hundreds of millions of dollars? This is not a two sides issue.
For Trump Left wing commies = literally anyone who disagrees with him
I'm not pushing it as a two sides issue. I haven't seen anyone in the Democratic establishment advocating for media censorship like this. I'm talking about you, as an individual. You're not a side.
I’m not advocating ‘censorship’. I’m advocating for standards of truth in news media. Unless it’s laid out as the facts, it’s opinion.
This used to be the case until Murdoch and the GOP changed the law to allow bullshit.
If you're talking about the fairness doctrine, it required broadcast networks to devote equal time to both sides of controversial issues. It never applied to opinion shows, which are like 2/3rds of the content on 24 hour cable news networks, and it never applied to cable. You could bring it back tomorrow and it wouldn't change anything about Fox News.
There is not, nor has there ever been, a legal 'standard of truth' for news media. There shouldn't be. If you trust the government to decide what is true and punish the media for reporting otherwise, what's to stop trump or the next trump from weaponizing that? That is why the first amendment exists.
Don't forget, Sanders is the only person Trump has ever admitted he's afraid of.
Dems really underestimate what life is like for normal Americans. trump doesn't get it either obviously, but at least he acknowledges shit is bad for them.
If Biden tries to run in the economy it's going to hurt him because all the money is going to the wealthy.
Bernie acknowledges and actually has a plan to fix shit. And unlike trump points the finger at whose fault it is.
trump can't compete with that.
But neoliberals don't want to really address wealth inequality either.
Cannidates like Biden help fascism
Biden is the only thing standing between democracy and fascism in the US. Hate it all you want,but that is the reality at the moment.
Biden isn't standing between anything...he's a speed bump. We still lost our reproductive rights, Trump's tax cuts are still in place, we are still sending money to Israel and not the Ukraine.
Biden sucks. Don't vote for Trump...but god it's fucking depressing that the only alternative is a guy with Alzheimer's and a meme army for political clout.
You lost your reproductive rights because a bunch of Sanders bros decided they'd rather let Trump win than vote for Hillary.
Am I the only one that remembers the DNC was sued over that...and Sanders won?
Over what exactly? The only lawsuit the Sanders campaign filed was over a misunderstanding over how a DNC voter database was configured. Both candidates had access to the same modeling and turnout software, and the Sanders campaign was mistakenly able to access data and models Clinton had generated because the system was not configured correctly. He sued when that mistake was corrected, but quickly dropped the suit when the issue was clarified.
The lawsuit against Wasserman-Shultz was from a voter group, and it was dismissed. Maybe I'm missing one though. Can you jog my memory?
I'm afraid to ask what you think a vote for Trump helps.
Please stop being so dramatic, you shouldn't be afraid to talk to other people about their political opinions.
It's not fear, it's that no one wants to read the same half assed logic that boils down to actively supporting efforts of conservatives to put Trump back in power. This shit strategy is getting old.
The winner of the 2024 general election for POTUS will be Donald Trump or Joe Biden. In a FPTP system any eligible vote not cast for Joe Biden is supporting Donald Trump, a member of the minority party. This is math. You are going to support one of these candidates if you're eligible to vote. It is mathematically impossible to sit out and not have influence.
Not a single one of the commenters trying to depress Democratic votes has provided a single alternative argument to these facts. It's not a real argument. It's just trying to create apathy so conservatives can gain more power.
You can talk about Democratic principles all day long, voting is a strategic play. And if you were actually trying to defend Democratic principles you would take the action that results in the least harm, which is Joe Biden, not Donald Trump.
You are discussing strategy to avoid the most harm. Harm avoidance. That's fear. You are literally describing fear without using the word fear and acting like I was the one misunderstanding. You need to understand that you are acting on fear. It's ridiculous, and I was right to point it out.
You mentioned my other comment in passing like it meant nothing to you, then say that no one hear has given any real arguments? Maybe you just need to read in better faith. You clearly don't have any respect for my concerns with Biden if your comment demonstrates a complete unwillingness to even entertain the thought.
Canadian btw, you don't need to convince of anything to do with voting strategy anyway. Wasted energy. I just think you guys are being really silly and can't see the forest from the trees. You could probably use third party observers to get your heads on straight.
Well, it's a good thing you're not dramatic at all...
Zero interest in trying to convince you of anything. I just want everyone else to understand that listening to you acts against their own interests. Either you don't understand how our electoral system works, or you're misleading people to try and put your thumb on the scale in support of some pretty horrible people.
Waiting anytime for an explanation of how Trump getting elected benefits the situation in Gaza btw. Or do we not care about that now because that would be acting out of fear?
Take with a grain of salt, considering Putin says Biden is better for him than Trump. While I don't necessarily agree with the argument, Republicans (and centrist dems) certainly believe Sanders would've been an easy target for smear campaigns.
Is there a real plan to shore up our "democracy" if the Democrats win this election? What is Biden going to do next term that he didn't do this term?
I feel like people are so fixated on Trump that they can't see past him. Trump is a giant, clown-shaped piece of shit-- absolutely. How does the opposing party fail at politics so hard that someone like Trump ever even had a shot?
I don't think there really can be a plan. Like what would you want Biden to do to shore up democracy?
One of the inescapable, fundamental, bedrock concepts of democracy is that people will not vote for a corrupt, criminal, authoritarian, self serving demagogue.
If a society can't achieve that basic state then they can not be a democracy.
Honestly, I suspect that the best thing Biden can do is to "grey rock" the American people and hope that Trump self combusts, which seems to be what's happening.
That said, that's just the best Biden can do. The dems need an actual leader that can inspire the american people to see a better version of themselves.
Did you mean to have the word "not" in your second paragraph? Because people absolutely vote for leaders like that all the time lol.
Oh I think I see. I agree that we're not a real democracy.
I feel like people are so fixated on Trump that they can't see past him.
Well yeah, because if he wins there won't be anything past him for much of the country.
OK? What if Biden wins, is my question. Is the Democrat value-proposition nothing more than "periodic intervals of slightly slower slide into total fascism"?
In what way have the Democrats advocated for sliding into fascism? They're status quo politicians, not wannabe dictators like some other orange person.
Intervals of "status quo" between fascist administrations is slow-walking into full fascism.
So, what's your suggestion then?
Fuck man, I've got a lot I guess. Like the kind of shit the Repubs do, but the Dems claim powerlessness to do. Trump has shown that the rule of law only matters if there is some consequence to breaking it. So break the law. Wield the power. Especially if you genuinely feel like this will be the last ever election. Fucking declare an emergency, arrest Trump and everyone else involved in J6. Send the military to reassert power over the national border in Texas. Break up media monopolies, and nationalize telecoms. Why the fuck would you risk losing an election to a criminal gang who want to end democracy?
All those possibilities pretty much went out the window when the Democrats nominated Biden. Even if Biden was as left as we would like him to be, he is a technocrat who sees the norms as vital to maintaining the legitimacy of government.
I don't even necessarily disagree that maintaining legitimacy is vital, but I'd put representing the people over donors a notch higher than maintaining norms.
I don't actually think they were ever possibilities. Even if Bernie had won, his own party would have trampled over the repubs in order to impeach him first lol.
I don't think so. The more people actually hear Bernie speak, the more they like him. He wouldn't be hiding from the public like Biden, he would be leading rallies on the Whitehouse lawn. If Bernie had access to the bully pulpit, impeaching him would be political suicide.
The supreme Court is slow-rolling determining whether or not a president is liable for criminal activity in office until after the election. If they determine now, then either trump gets held accountable, or Biden has immunity from crimes in office, and can plainly jail or order a hit on trump and a good chunk of Congress.
Obviously though, the president is not immune from the consequences of crimes committed while in the office.
I just don't understand how you can believe that the supreme court can't or won't just ignore precedent.
Your suggestions are very tempting, I must say. We don't want to sleepwalk into fascism. It could be 1930s Germany all over again.
Trump and many of his gang were arrested already, though, and are facing trial. So far, the verdicts have shown that the justice system is still somewhat functional. I don't think it makes sense to flip the table as long as the justice system continues to hold Trump and his ilk accountable. Taking it to the next level and declaring an emergency would accomplish what, exactly? He has already been charged, so would the point of the emergency declaration be to skip the trial phase and go straight to hanging? Essentially it means outlawing Trumpism, which means purging the GOP, which means civil war. No one wants civil war as long as there is a chance to beat Trump constitutionally.
We had a situation in Canada in the 90s where our second largest province had a very serious vote on whether to separate from Canada. It would have literally ended the country as we know it. It was certainly tempting to arrest the leaders for treason to save the country. However, that would certainly have led to either a civil war or the Quebecois equivalent of the IRA in Canada. So, we persevered through the vote and the remainers won by about 1%, as I recall. We saved the country by the skin of our teeth, but through legitimate democratic means, and so the result was respected.
Yeah, purge them. As absolutely awful as a civil war would be, I say that it is preferable to risk it now than cordially handing over the reins of power to these clowns from hell. For one, civil war is by no means guaranteed. For all our big talk, most Americans will go along with 'the program', whether it's purges of fascists or purges of minorities. I'm afraid we have to choose one, and I much prefer the former.
Yes, that's correct. Slower slide means more of a chance to fix it.
Fix it how? Like what's the plan? Is there a plan?
Democracy cannot be permanently "fixed", it can only be preserved via endless education and participation.
Literally the only way to "fix" democracy is to participate in it.
OK? How does that happen? Is there a Dem plan to drive democratic engagement, because they obviously haven't done a good job of it yet. It seems like fear of Repubs is the main selling point to voting Dem, and it isn't exactly a thrilling strategy.
How does that happen?
It happens when I go canvas and vote, not complain about it on the internet like you.
Sounds like you've got it covered then.
More people voted for Biden in the 2020 election than any other candidate in American history by a pretty significant margin, voter turnout in both midterms and general elections are at their highest points in 100 years, obviously something is working
You have to know that a lot of those votes were "against Trump" more than they were "for Biden" right? Heartening to see such resistance to what Trump represents, to be sure, but it's laughable to say that Biden earned those votes.
No there is a lesser chance. The worse the conditions get for the more support fascism gets.
If Trump does not win this election, an even worse person will win the next one
This, so much, this, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
The Democrats are ideologically incapable of dealing with fascism, they will not address the root causes, America will have an authoritarian in office within 8 years.
Quite frankly if America can't withstand trump's decrepit, corrupt, senile version of fascism then we're just going to fall to what ever ghoul the Republicans summon next.
But what can you really do? Not voting is beneficial to the open christo fascists, and the only person who has any real world shot at winning an election, for some mind melting reason Joe Biden. The same Joe Biden, who despite his kinda actually not terrible first term, is currently funding a genocide as the wold watches. It's a shit choice, but this problem isnt going to be fixed this cycle. It's like punching the clock.
Biden isn't the only one who could win, and seems to be worse off than a generic dem in swing States, by a long shot. They're choosing the candidate again, like they did with Hillary, from the ranks of the least popular people in the US. They're shooting themselves and blaming the left and Muslims in MI already.
I agree with you completely. I think the DNC is going to do what they want, and it will take time and deliberate action to change them. This cycle is going to be a Trump/Biden election. I don't see a way around it. Here's to 2026 and 2028 for making progress with elections. In the meantime we still have to donate and support with our time.
I'll be volunteering for Biden, because that's the best cause I believe I can support during this election. Doesn't mean I'm super pumped on him being the candidate.
But what can you really do?
Not give into cynicism and participate in the democratic process? Democracy isn't something that you can set and forget, it requires constant attention and participation or it breaks. We are where we're at because the GOP and big corporations have been carefully engineering widespread burnout in a large percentage of the working class population.
Oh for sure. I'm just saying the DNC is going to put up Biden, no matter what, so that's our choice this round. Action can be taken for 2028, but be real... They're not going to change horses.
I agree that it's frustrating that Democrats use shitty Republicans as an excuse to be just a tiny bit less shitty. However, it's getting really annoying that you can't criticize Trump without someone chiming in with "whadabout Biden?!" and you can't criticize Biden without getting a "whadabout Trump?!"
They're both fucking awful. It's a waste of time criticizing Trump because everybody knows who he is, and the people that like him don't give a fuck what he does. They aren't listening to your criticism. I'm don't think Dem leadership really wants to actually help working class people, but they definitely don't have much reason to start when people keep voting for the most "conservative" ones out of fear from the monsters which have mysteriously found a way to represent the other half of voters.
As far as Democrats go, Biden is amazing. He's supported Israel no more than Obama or Clinton did. He's forgiven tens of billions in oppressive student loans. He enacted a funding bill that will finally establish a HSR network in parts of America. He rolled back disastrous Trump era policies on immigration. He fixed Trump's disastrous COVID response. He re-established relations among NATO countries and was paramount in alerting the world that Russia was about to invade Ukraine when we all knew Trump was trying to weaken their military with his quid pro quo scheme.
In your opinion, how has Biden failed America?
To add to this. Biden has passed significant investments in growing manufacturing jobs in the US the results we won't really see for years. Planting a tree that he will never enjoy the shade of. He has approved renewable energy projects and initiated much needed improvements to energy transmission so more renewable energy can be in the grid when they are built. Biden has done a lot to advance our infrastructure.
Obama didn't even openly support gay marriage. I get that as the first black president he didn't want to give the GOP anything to call "radical", but Biden is doing so much progressives have been asking for in the past 30 years, it's very hard for me to not be excited by that.
Cricket cricket
....
Blyat
The more he loses the less likely he'll be to win, plus he's old as hell and not aging gracefully. Rebuking Trumpism is shoring up democracy.
Didn't we rebuke Trumpism last election? I'm asking why the fuck is Trumpism alternating as the most popular political position for the American electorate. This is an indictment of the political acumen of the Democratic party.
We did but facism will never go away. Before they slunk away but now fascists can connect with each other online. Instead of it being a few people that happen to meet up and connect now they can seek each other out. It's the same reason that racism has made such a dramatic resurgence. It will literally require eternal vigilance.
Is this how it is in all countries? An eternal choice between "whole fascism" and "skim fascism"?
Just ask about DC statehood and the Dems' inability to enfranchise over a million US citizens.
As soon as you scratch this problem, you discover how shallow and unserious the party is in "protecting democracy".
I agree, I'm just trying to get others to see how little "resistance" the Dems pose to the more naked fascism of the Repubs.
You know they don't . Their strategy was, is, and will continue to be: "The other side is worse".
Yep, and it is a shit strategy.
Because Trump is great for me fundraising and keeping party bigwigs at the trough
Sometimes in life there is such a thing that is called:
"Maybe there is no Good Vs. Bad just assholes all around".
Good luck with that
I know you mrrrkns absolutely hate it when furriners' talk about your politics, but it saddens me to see a fellow democracy in such a state. Both these guys are demented old f&@ks! These are the best candidates your democratic system can give you? Really? I know we Aussies have plenty to cringe about, but jeez!
Yeah. It’s super frustrating living in the United States and having these two old fucks as the voters choice. To be clear, I’m voting Biden, because he and the Democrats are the lesser of the evils by a pretty large margin, but they both fucking suck.
Why settle for the lesser evil? Cthulhu 2024.
I’m all in on spaghettification of the government. Gotta be better than this bullshit.
Trump is a result of the systems failure to address underlying problems. The underlying problems can all be associated with a single common source: Inflation.
Governments printing money at a rate greater than value is created in the economy, nets you inflation - and that has been going on since around the mid 90's in a very real way, and even before that. We can more or less call this the "NeoLiberal Era" if you like. Around the 90's is when things get bad - and to more or less cover it up, the CPI was manipulated (read: Fixed like you would fix a wrestling match) to make inflation look acceptable - in reality: Replace Steak for Ground beef in the CPI shopping cart and tell people it's still relevant.
End of the 90's you get the ,Com bubble and crash. 2008 Market Crash - and you get "Quantitative Easing" being sold as a fix - when all it is is, PRINTING MONEY. Then during the pandemic a huge push to shut down the economy (largely impacting the lowest wage earners the hardest just FYI) requiring the government to provide stimulus, coupled with grands, loans, and such to businesses in hopes they would keep people employed (hint: They didn't). And so we have had a series of the most NeoLiberal thing possible: Publicize the risk, privatize the profits, and screw the poor over in the process.
The fix: Reduce the Money Supply. Drive to a negative inflation number. But the kicker is? The wealthiest hedge funds, realestate investors, and what not would basically go belly up from that type of move. And why? Because if inflation lowers - the debts accrued cost more to maintain the interest on, than they can gain with inflation flipping for real profit over time. Once you reduce the money supply by at this point about 2/3eds - we can move to aiming for a 0% inflation number. The government should at that point be focused on reducing debt one way or another.
The real problem for the US Economy is, if any action is taken to reduce the debt - it will be a clear signal that the US economy is not gaining value, and that the Dollar Value is currently overvalued. And that could in a very real way cause a spiral. And a fear of the Spiral is making the long term problem worse as it's kicked down the road.
By the way: You can take the US out of this and replace just about any western nation into the mix and find the same problem. Actually, China really fits in here. And oh boy a correction is coming and it's going to be ugly.
I like the insinuation that the US is an actual "democracy" lmao
If we do an election and the wrong candidate wins, the democracy goes away.
So you can't vote for the wrong candidate.
And also, you can't vote for a third-party candidate.
And also, you can't abstain from voting.
So, really, you have exactly one choice that you're allowed to make.
Democracy!
but “allowed” is not accurate. you’re allowed to do any of those things. it’s just that all of them blow, and one blows less.
And also, you can’t abstain from voting.
[Citation required.]
We could actually improve our democracy by making voting mandatory.
We'd get a better representation of how all of the voting-age population feels.
Then maybe we can get politicians that support more thorough voting system reform.
We could actually improve our democracy by making voting mandatory.
In Australia, we've tried that. I have to say, that I personally, am not a fan.
The consequences of forcing politically ignorant or complacent people to vote is that they end up deciding the result of the election, and you just get skilled used car salesmen as your politicians. They know all the buzzwords and three word slogans to keep the politically apathetic tuned in.
They know all the buzzwords and three word slogans to keep the politically apathetic tuned in
And how is that different from what we have?
we get that now tho…
We could actually improve our democracy by making voting mandatory.
Brazil has mandatory voting, and its just as rife with corruption and fascism as anywhere else. I like the idea of compulsory enfranchisment simply because it operates as a counterweight to disenfranchisement. A state with a legal duty to vote is one with a legal obligation to fully implement elections infrastructure (at least, in theory).
But when it comes to the quality of candidates? Well... Bolsonaro was not a paragon of civic virtue.
you’re right, now that i think about it—as long as gerrymandering gets banned at the same time. because guess who doesn’t want most folks to vote? the R party. you know, the one that wants to rule, not govern.
Also, unless you live in a specific set of states, your vote is effectively meaningless!
There's downticket stuff and that shouldn't be ignored.
At the same time, we get meager media coverage of the downticket races so its very difficult to discern who is good and who sucks unless you've got an in-group to turn to. I like to pretend I'm active in Dem circles, but I'll be damned if I know who to vote for on my state senate seat much less all the judiciary races. The one guy I liked to primary out the loathsome Liz Fletcher turned out to be a serial sexual harasser.
But yeah, pretending my vote in Texas will swing the national election is absurd. And then trying to tie that national election vote back to "Oh no, democracy is ending if you don't vote for my guy!" is even fucking dumber.
oof. perception +20
It is for anything besides president. That's the sad part.
i’d say it’s largely, tho not completely, a de facto oligarchy now.
It never was, or was ever meant to be, an actual "democracy". Imperial core countries' political systems only serve to protect capital and imperialism, with a thin veneer of "democracy" to discourage uprising and two parties to divide the working class.
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Sanders looks like Noam Chomsky in this picture.
By supporting a different Republican, how hard is it? In many states you can even vote in the primary of a party you're not part of, people think it's beneath them to pick a candidate of the party they dislike whose agenda is least-unlikable. There's no law preventing you from switching parties on a whim.
If trump wins and America can't defeat his senile version of fascism, then it's already on the death bed waiting for the next republican to take power...
trump is the best authoritarian we're going to get, he's easy mode, the republicans will get someone worse, someone who has the ability to think beyond his next shit.
It's not going to get better only worse...
how were republicans before trump? how was Bush? (i literally have no idea because I was 7 at the time)
Bush was far worse than Trump.
Didn't know Bush tried to overthrow the government after he lost
Bush started multiple wars and killed millions of people by lying about WMD's and blamed Iraq for doing 9/11 which was done by Afghanistan but actually by Saudis. And Bush passed many spying acts and abolished rights.
Trump bombed Suleimani and withdrew from Afghanistan. That's it for foreign policy.
Bush was infinitely more worse than Trump. Trump just looked really dumb
MUST WATCH: Bernie Sanders - Why People Vote For Trump
And I’ve said many times before: I believe we’re at an inflection point in this country — one of those moments where the decisions we’re about to make can change — literally change the trajectory of our nation for years and possibly decades to come.
Each inflection point in this nation’s history represents a fundamental choice. I believe that America, at this moment, is facing such a choice. And the choice is this: Are we going to continue with an economy where the overwhelming share of the benefits go to big corporations and the very wealthy? Or are we going to take this moment right now to set this country on a new path — one that invests in this nation; creates real, sustained economic growth; and that benefits everyone, including working people and middle-class folks?
That’s something we haven’t realized in this country for decades.
Here’s the simple truth. For a long time, this economy has worked great for those at the very top, while ordinary, hardworking Americans — the people who built this country — have been basically cut out of the deal.
And I’ve said this from the time I announced I was going to run: I believe this is a moment of potentially great change. This is our moment to deal working people back into the economy. This is our moment to prove to the American people that their government works for them, not just for the big corporations and those at the very top.
Yet an off-the-cuff remark about asking wealthy people to accept slightly higher taxes is somehow all his breathless detractors want to pretend has ever existed.
Man, it’s crazy how similar that sounds to exactly what Biden has been saying all along:
I get your frustration, but this is a good thing. Bernie having the same message only strengthens it, and can convince people that won't listen to Biden.
We don't have the luxury of picking allies. If holding my tongue gets us a reluctant ally, I'll take it. None of us have to like each other. We just need to remember that fascism is the ultimate evil. We may bicker like dwarves and elves, but when the orcs appear, we need to fall lockstep shoulder to shoulder immediately.
Actions speak louder than words. Biden locked in Trump’s $2T tax cuts for the rich and corporations, bringing the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. Never mind the open loopholes they exploit to pay virtually nothing anyway. Then, Biden claims he wants to bump up the corporate tax rate to 28%, but can’t, for “reasons.”
What is this halfway corpo-fascist stance? How are we going to pay for that?! By cutting social programs meant to support the working class. Biden is full of shit on this issue, open your eyes.
Biden locked in Trump’s $2T tax cuts for the rich and corporations, bringing the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%.
Nuance glossed over for the sake of partisan shit-flinging:
Let me be clear - Bernie isn’t in office right now. If he were, he’d have likely come up with some way to deal with these two.
It’s really too bad that Mr Biden couldn’t arrange an audience with President Manchin during this time to figure something out, since Manchin is calling all the shots. At least they got some things accomplished together. Any and all applicable environmental regs be damned.
Bernie isn't in office right now.
Bernie is in office. He is the Chair of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions. And he would not be in this position if the Democratic party had not heard what he is saying and agreed to demand government to perform better for the working class.
he’d have likely come up with some way to deal with these two
And everyone would get a pony.
If Trump wins what? An election?
It's a good thing no one who was ever democratically elected dismantled democracy so they could never lose the power they gained.
1, he's been elected before, yet we've still got our election system. 2, democrats are actually trying to dismantle democracy by denying a huge number of voters the ability to vote for their choice for president. Dont by hypocritical, flip the roles around and imagine Trump or republican states are the ones barring Biden from running. It's not gonna sit well with you is it?
Democracies mean the people decide, even if that goes against who you want to win.
If Biden committed the acts and, as of now alleged crimes Trump has been accused of, then Biden would need to be barred too. That's the difference with Trump supporters, the rest of us want the laws applied no matter which "team" the politician represents. It's people over party and not the other way around.
Sanders is one of the only politicians unworthy of the guillotine.
Bernie is a Genocide defender and wants to keep funding israel even now.
Yes he wants to continue the 3 billion per year and does not want to sanction israel.
These are Bernies's own words he said in the video I linked above.
Funny how many comments just went poof! Gone! So this place is basically /r/politics now? Mods smoking out every opinion they don't like?
Funny thing is, the deleted comments were from liberals, not raging conservatives spewing bile and lies. Must not have passed the purity test.
So this place is basically /r/politics now?
👨🚀🔫👨🚀
Funny how many comments just went poof!
Are they in the mod log? The link is at the bottom of each page.
Is there a way to filter by post? It's hard to find anything when it's everything from all communities.
Or maybe the mods are actually moderating by cutting out the off-topic arguments and BS threads that don't contribute anything to the overall discourse of the discussion.
I can imagine most of the comments were 14yo's and trolls saying GeNoCiDe JoE hUrRrR
My thoughts exactly. Why is it that these "politics" sites just end up going completely Left? Is this "politics" or "Democrat Politics?" I get confused... apparently, the Right isn't allowed to have an opinion any where anymore..
Does the right still have anything left to say that isn't hate speech? The entire conservative economic schtick has failed the reality test so badly that most conservatives don't even want to talk about it anymore. It's all border wall nonsense, election denial, and reactionary isolationism now, and that's the saner half of conservatism.
Yes. I'm Mexican American, family came here from Mexico, legally in the 50's. Worked hard, and established a great life. We were raised in a strict Catholic household, so, ideally, my family always votes Republican. This doesn't make us horrible people. We simply believe in different things than Liberals/Democrats. However, I'm also a firm believer in Gay Rights, Abortion, and social programs. But, I think there needs to be limits, rules, and restrictions on a lot of that stuff. That's where most of my political beliefs start to lean more Right. Sounds like you're just profiling based on what you read on Reddit and Lemmy. That's like me saying all Democrats and Liberals are anti-gun, anti-religion, and hate white people We know that's not true.
We were raised in a strict Catholic household, so, ideally, my family always votes Republican.
Political parties are not like sports teams and you aren't required to vote for a particular party just because you were born into it. Anyways, there is no correlation between being Catholic and voting for Republicans. Also, Biden is Catholic, and Trump is not - just in case you think that's relevant.
This doesn’t make us horrible people.
I never said anything about you being horrible. My comments were directed at the current state of Republican policy and rhetoric, not the personal character of Republican voters.
I’m also a firm believer in Gay Rights, Abortion, and social programs.
Your Pope is also a firm believer in social programs. He doesn't support Gay Rights and Abortion, but he takes a very different stance on them than Republicans.
But, I think there needs to be limits, rules, and restrictions on a lot of that stuff.
So do Democrats. I've noticed this tendency for people on the right to make these kinds of sweeping statements that sound like fundamental policy positions but are really so meaningless that anybody could say they support them. "I believe in small government." "I am against excessive regulation." etc. No real point there, I just find it interesting.
The biggest curtailment of the welfare state in the least 100 years came from the Clinton administration. Obama's biggest safety net accomplishment was Obamacare, which was originally a plan from the extremely right wing Heritage Foundation.
You’re just profiling based on what you read on Reddit and Lemmy.
No, I'm really not. Again, my comments were on the current state of Republican policy and rhetoric, so "profiling" doesn't come into it. This goes back to my point about sports teams. My observations are also based on what I see coming out of Republican politicians and media figures. Conservatives on Lemmy, and especially Reddit tend to keep largely to their own insulated communities, and I don't often visit.
Pray tell, these opinions of yours that you're afraid of sharing publicly?
I think there should be limits and restrictions on social programs. I believe in tough on crime, funding more police, not less. I believe that we should be allowed to question the billions being sent to Ukraine, without being told we're traitors and spineless. The Republicans are the ones trying to limit the amount of money we send all over the world, and for some reason, this makes them the party of the "bad guys." I'm against many ultra liberal views, like allowing petty theft to go unpunished, allowing the homeless crisis to grow in California because apparently, it's "not their fault."
Oh I got it. You're a moron who can't bother to rub his last two braincells together.
Spotted the tolerant liberal!
You're allowed to have an opinion and we're allowed to tell you that your opinion sucks
Ironically, many of the kids that worship the ground he walks on won’t lift a finger to walk his walk, let alone talk his talk. And don’t even get started on any of them actually making it to the polls.
There too busy folding their arms and pouting over Biden.
Meanwhile, as Bernie said: our democracy at risk.
they are = they're
they're too busy
If you let typos be typos and focus on the point of the words, you’ll find it easier to interact with people.
And if you don’t think it’s a typo, go ahead and spell check my comment history.
God you’re insufferable.
We don't have much of a democracy as things stand considering the average person doesn't influence policy lol. If all hope is on Biden clutching it out then we better brace for the end. Dems had 4 years to plan ahead.
What sort of plan do you think an incumbent president who has actually been doing policy should adopt?
We did plan ahead, I'm sorry you don't like what we planned but you were also fully welcome to participate in the process the entire time.
The same process that locked Bernie out?
The same one where biden literally promised he would be a one term president but now has turned around and is running again and there is no democratic challenger?
Yes that process. Sorry your internet comments didn't work to stop us!
Damn you suck at planning lmao
Well, our guy is president and yours is not.
If becoming less popular than when you beat Trump and enabling genocide is planning ahead, then I guess it is over.
Sorry to hear you're giving up but I guess that makes it easier for me.
This.
As his position on the Israel-Gaza war threatens to upset his support
In the bi-line. I don't think these people know who Bernies supporters are.
Bernie is right about why people vote for Trump, he's wrong that it will be the end of democracy. America has never had a democracy, it's had an electoral college with gerrymandering and 2 senators per state.
You know perfectly well why he means. US democracy is shitty as it is, but it can become a lot LOT worse, and Trump will make sure that happens
How horrible is your life bro?
It's quite nice, actually, thanks! How about yours?
Well whatever we have is still better than a dictatorship.
So, which country with 300 Million people is doing it the right way? China? India? Do tell...do tell!
That’s what they said last time.
Socialism 2024. End the MIC. Vote 3rd party or enjoy Trump.
This literally every.single.election.fuck off with this whole thing.
They've been saying this every election. This line is the norm now. There never was much of a democracy.
I don't think it's a coincidence that "this line" became normal at the same time the GOP has been enacting antidemocratic legislation and putting forward antidemocratic candidates.
at the same time the GOP has been enacting antidemocratic legislation
Your linked evidence shows him saying that he wants to stop supporting Israel, contrary to the first sentence of your post.
It's a bit difficult listening to the interview with that YouTube guy telling you what to think, but it's there if you endure.
I got you MLH because there is clear need for help to explain what words mean and MLH explains it very well.
Sanders goes on to say that he wants to continue to give israel 3 Billion dollars per year and does not want to sanction israel. Even when pressed on the double standard with Apartheid south Africa.
Thanks for the link. I watched it to the end and I don't see the 3 billion claim, he kept saying he wants to stop money going to Israel. Feel free to timestamp where it is, maybe I missed it.
13:58. For more explanation you can watch the MLH video
There's nothing "raw" about this video. It's a fully produced and edited interview.
Did you just dodge the facts and respond with completely something irrelevant because you got proven wrong?
It is the raw video of the footage used by MLH so "raw" is the correct description here. Now respond to your claim of "Bernie not defending israel money."
lmao schizophrenic
Oh brother... they say the same thing every time a Republican becomes President....if Trump becomes President, he'll be exactly like he was before. This is just more fearmongering from the Left.
Well Trump did actively support an insurrection, I don't know how you can't see this as a threat to democracy in the US...
It will be the end of democracy. Just like last time. Remember when democracy died?
Most presidential elections have had some kind of doomsayers. This particular election has a candidate that supported (supposedly indirectly) an insurrection, stated it's ok to execute political opponents, and has openly said some very nazi like things. This election is a bit different than the others.
Then the left puts up a weak candidate, again, and says eat that shit sandwich, so I get the frustration.
What left?
All i see is fascist capitalism vs narcist capitalism. Neither cares what the people actually want. But yeah one is significantly worse… which means reasonable people have only one option to vote. Freedom be damned.
I can keep slapping your face and insulting your family, or I can kick you in the nuts and hit you with a baseball bat. You pick America
Don't worry, the democrats will yet again cheat enough to make sure they win and in doing so, save democracy. Cause god forbid people would decide who they want for president. That's not how you save democracy !
Democracy is more of a sliding scale than a true or false. The US has had significant democratic decline during the last decade or two, and it was definitely not helped by Trump.
Slide far enough and well, that’s the end of democracy.
I was proud to vote for Bernie in the 2016 and 2020 primaries, but I bit the bullet and phone banked for Biden even though he was far from my first choice. There's way too much at stake here.
Yes. Better Biden than Trump but Bernie would have been better.
I volunteered for Sanders campaign but didn't do anything for Biden. He didn't earn my vote. Democracy at work.
I honestly get where you are coming from. I protest voted green party in 2016 thinking Hillary had the election in the bag - and felt terrible afterwards. Voted for Biden in 2020 even though he was low on my list. Without seriously overhauling our voting process to ranked choice or STAR voting, not voting for one of the major party candidates just helps the other.
Depends on where you are, I voted sanders, but since my area and state went Democrat it didn't really matter. It's not like it's entirely popular vote.
Maybe I’m a naive idealist, but, in the age of social media I actually tend to disagree. If there’s ever a time that a 3rd party could be plausible, it’s now. Everyone hates both sides, social media and the internet gives anyone a platform.
The notion that you cannot vote for anyone else is and has been pedaled by both sides for too long. It’s tired and false.
I don’t see either party being willing to pass something that in-essence, weakens their stance, so voting reform is likely dead.
Idk, this country is fucked. Like I can even easily go counter myself as I type this. You’re probably right. I just don’t want to believe it. I’ll likely be voting democrat anyway, simply cause my soul knows you’re right. Fuck.
I'm all for having choices outside of our de-facto two party system, but the reality is that the more progressive candidates we have, the more it splits the progressive vote. Our adversaries know this, as part of the Russian election interference involved social media posts encouraging progressives to vote for Green Party candidate Jill Stein. Stein claims she had no involvement, but there have been accusations that she has ties to Russia, particularly stemming from this gala she attended. A senate investigation found no wrongdoing on her part, however.
there is no evidence she was aware. this is slander.
Which part of my comment could be considered slander? I thought I was presenting the facts as they are, and even mentioned that she denied any knowledge of the Russian election interference done to promote her campaign and split the progressive vote.
you said there is evidence she was aware. that's not true.
Fair enough. I've updated my comment.
Blame the candidate that works for the people. Not voting for Biden helps Trump? I guess not voting for Trump helps Biden too then?
If you're a conservative voter and you refuse to vote for Trump for one reason or another then it does help Biden. The problem is that conservatives are rallying behind Trump pretty much regardless of what he does, while progressives are infighting about whether to vote for Biden because of his stance with Israel.
Not voting for the lesser of two evils helps the greater evil, whoever you think that might be in this election
100 million voters don't vote in the US.
Who did you vote for? Or did you just not vote?
I voted down ballot Dem except POTUS which I voted third party. I'm in California.
In the past few elections, voting feels more like a hostage situation than exercising my right to making a “choice”. This country is absolutely fucked if Trump is elected again.
We need to focus on smaller winnable races. Unfortunately we can't shortcut our way into the presidential candidates we want, we need to replace the establishment and build a foundation of allies to support it. I know a lot of us are in conservative areas where you can't realistically get new candidates elected locally, but you can still volunteer for races in other parts of the country. If we can shift politics in the house and Senate the presidency will follow. It's hard work but it's possible.
Easier said than done I know but if Trump wins my wife and I would strongly consider emigrating to another country. There's only so much insanity one can take before needlessly going down with the ship. And if the calculus is that that my kids will have better prospects elsewhere, then so be it.
You're assuming that 1st world countries will have us.
Fascism is on the rise globally. If enough decent people leave the US, we will fall into a fascist regime, and it will be the beginning of World War Three, with the US leading the equivalent of the Axis powers. No place in the world will be safe for you or your children. That's the hard, honest truth.
With my partner, friends, and I being "degenerates" and likely the first group the fascists genocide... nope, see ya, I'm out. We already are experiencing the low-tide effects of genocide and while people aren't in droves killing us yet, there are state allowed murders seemingly popping up and medical genocides creeping into the states. It's only a matter of time and there is effectively nothing I can do, so for the lives of my family, friends, and I, we will be doing whatever it takes to get out before it really starts.
You must do what you feel is right, of course. I disagree that it is inevitable, I disagree that there is nothing you can do, and as I said above, I doubt that, should it happen, anybody will be safe, anywhere; but I wish you and yours safety and peace, wherever you go.
I'll be in my 3rdW country eating popcorn
Yes. That's the end game of our type of voting system. You get two options and both suck.
We will get no progress until we get something like ranked choice voting.
Which we won’t get, because it doesn’t benefit the right people
If we can at least get 2 dems in a row in office we can begin to claw the Overton window back from the fascist side. It'd be a start at least
This is the part too may people fail to understand. The same reason Trump wasn't able to completely dismantle democracy in 4 years is why Dems can't check every progressive box in 4 years. The system is designed to require a decade or more of electoral success to enact real change. Otherwise you'd just have an unsustainable political yoyo.
Even then, Trump winning one time has completely fucked the Supreme Court, and US democracy will unequivocally not survive another Trump pick. A ton of allegedly left leaning people here seem suspiciously enthusiastic about that prospect.
Wtf? Civil Rights?
Bless your heart.❤️
Obligatory CGP Grey video about the inevitability of a 2-party system
https://youtu.be/s7tWHJfhiyo
That's my favorite. I've watched it more than a few times
It always has been.
Citizens United needs to be removed.
The massive polarisation in the media needs to be addressed and the outright blatant lies told by the Rightwing goons needs to be legally stopped. ‘Free Speech’ my ass. They need to be labelled ‘opinion’ or ‘entertainment’ or something other than pretending to be ‘fair’ or ‘news’.
I think an "equal air time" law that requires that corrections to misinformation and disinformation be provided at the same scope, scale and duration as the offending material. Since Fox news backed down on their dominion case, they ought to reprint every article, rehost every show and re-run every ribbon and banner on all of their platforms for next 3 years, admitting that they lied, linking sources to proof of their lies, and advising everyone that 2020 had no meaningful amounts of voter fraud on either side. Failure to do so should be fined at a rate of 1000 dollars per second of missed remediation time.
Unfortunately the law would've never applied to fox news, as it was broadcast only and cable was exempt. But even so nowadays so much of the information sphere is online, through Facebook, Twitter and the thousand different right wing blog news sites that you aren't really going to be able to stop anything. The American system very dependent on the two parties having a bipartisan consensus. But after a few decades of the right wing media sphere whipping the base into frenzy after frenzy the 'true believers' are the ones in government now and the idea of compromise is done for.
That all breaks down though when you can point to foreign actors stirring the pot. Republicans are really letting other countries decide their fate at this point
Replace "rightwing goons" with "leftwing commies" and this is exactly Trump's plan lmao. Do you not see how that is a problem?
What left wing media empire has spread lies so much as to be sued for hundreds of millions of dollars? This is not a two sides issue.
For Trump Left wing commies = literally anyone who disagrees with him
I'm not pushing it as a two sides issue. I haven't seen anyone in the Democratic establishment advocating for media censorship like this. I'm talking about you, as an individual. You're not a side.
I’m not advocating ‘censorship’. I’m advocating for standards of truth in news media. Unless it’s laid out as the facts, it’s opinion.
This used to be the case until Murdoch and the GOP changed the law to allow bullshit.
If you're talking about the fairness doctrine, it required broadcast networks to devote equal time to both sides of controversial issues. It never applied to opinion shows, which are like 2/3rds of the content on 24 hour cable news networks, and it never applied to cable. You could bring it back tomorrow and it wouldn't change anything about Fox News.
There is not, nor has there ever been, a legal 'standard of truth' for news media. There shouldn't be. If you trust the government to decide what is true and punish the media for reporting otherwise, what's to stop trump or the next trump from weaponizing that? That is why the first amendment exists.
Don't forget, Sanders is the only person Trump has ever admitted he's afraid of.
Dems really underestimate what life is like for normal Americans. trump doesn't get it either obviously, but at least he acknowledges shit is bad for them.
If Biden tries to run in the economy it's going to hurt him because all the money is going to the wealthy.
Bernie acknowledges and actually has a plan to fix shit. And unlike trump points the finger at whose fault it is.
trump can't compete with that.
But neoliberals don't want to really address wealth inequality either.
Cannidates like Biden help fascism
Biden is the only thing standing between democracy and fascism in the US. Hate it all you want,but that is the reality at the moment.
Biden isn't standing between anything...he's a speed bump. We still lost our reproductive rights, Trump's tax cuts are still in place, we are still sending money to Israel and not the Ukraine.
Biden sucks. Don't vote for Trump...but god it's fucking depressing that the only alternative is a guy with Alzheimer's and a meme army for political clout.
You lost your reproductive rights because a bunch of Sanders bros decided they'd rather let Trump win than vote for Hillary.
Am I the only one that remembers the DNC was sued over that...and Sanders won?
Over what exactly? The only lawsuit the Sanders campaign filed was over a misunderstanding over how a DNC voter database was configured. Both candidates had access to the same modeling and turnout software, and the Sanders campaign was mistakenly able to access data and models Clinton had generated because the system was not configured correctly. He sued when that mistake was corrected, but quickly dropped the suit when the issue was clarified.
The lawsuit against Wasserman-Shultz was from a voter group, and it was dismissed. Maybe I'm missing one though. Can you jog my memory?
I'm afraid to ask what you think a vote for Trump helps.
Please stop being so dramatic, you shouldn't be afraid to talk to other people about their political opinions.
It's not fear, it's that no one wants to read the same half assed logic that boils down to actively supporting efforts of conservatives to put Trump back in power. This shit strategy is getting old.
The winner of the 2024 general election for POTUS will be Donald Trump or Joe Biden. In a FPTP system any eligible vote not cast for Joe Biden is supporting Donald Trump, a member of the minority party. This is math. You are going to support one of these candidates if you're eligible to vote. It is mathematically impossible to sit out and not have influence.
Not a single one of the commenters trying to depress Democratic votes has provided a single alternative argument to these facts. It's not a real argument. It's just trying to create apathy so conservatives can gain more power.
You can talk about Democratic principles all day long, voting is a strategic play. And if you were actually trying to defend Democratic principles you would take the action that results in the least harm, which is Joe Biden, not Donald Trump.
You are discussing strategy to avoid the most harm. Harm avoidance. That's fear. You are literally describing fear without using the word fear and acting like I was the one misunderstanding. You need to understand that you are acting on fear. It's ridiculous, and I was right to point it out.
You mentioned my other comment in passing like it meant nothing to you, then say that no one hear has given any real arguments? Maybe you just need to read in better faith. You clearly don't have any respect for my concerns with Biden if your comment demonstrates a complete unwillingness to even entertain the thought.
Canadian btw, you don't need to convince of anything to do with voting strategy anyway. Wasted energy. I just think you guys are being really silly and can't see the forest from the trees. You could probably use third party observers to get your heads on straight.
Well, it's a good thing you're not dramatic at all...
Zero interest in trying to convince you of anything. I just want everyone else to understand that listening to you acts against their own interests. Either you don't understand how our electoral system works, or you're misleading people to try and put your thumb on the scale in support of some pretty horrible people.
Waiting anytime for an explanation of how Trump getting elected benefits the situation in Gaza btw. Or do we not care about that now because that would be acting out of fear?
It is known
Take with a grain of salt, considering Putin says Biden is better for him than Trump. While I don't necessarily agree with the argument, Republicans (and centrist dems) certainly believe Sanders would've been an easy target for smear campaigns.
Is there a real plan to shore up our "democracy" if the Democrats win this election? What is Biden going to do next term that he didn't do this term?
I feel like people are so fixated on Trump that they can't see past him. Trump is a giant, clown-shaped piece of shit-- absolutely. How does the opposing party fail at politics so hard that someone like Trump ever even had a shot?
I don't think there really can be a plan. Like what would you want Biden to do to shore up democracy?
One of the inescapable, fundamental, bedrock concepts of democracy is that people will not vote for a corrupt, criminal, authoritarian, self serving demagogue.
If a society can't achieve that basic state then they can not be a democracy.
Honestly, I suspect that the best thing Biden can do is to "grey rock" the American people and hope that Trump self combusts, which seems to be what's happening.
That said, that's just the best Biden can do. The dems need an actual leader that can inspire the american people to see a better version of themselves.
Did you mean to have the word "not" in your second paragraph? Because people absolutely vote for leaders like that all the time lol.
Oh I think I see. I agree that we're not a real democracy.
Well yeah, because if he wins there won't be anything past him for much of the country.
OK? What if Biden wins, is my question. Is the Democrat value-proposition nothing more than "periodic intervals of slightly slower slide into total fascism"?
In what way have the Democrats advocated for sliding into fascism? They're status quo politicians, not wannabe dictators like some other orange person.
Intervals of "status quo" between fascist administrations is slow-walking into full fascism.
So, what's your suggestion then?
Fuck man, I've got a lot I guess. Like the kind of shit the Repubs do, but the Dems claim powerlessness to do. Trump has shown that the rule of law only matters if there is some consequence to breaking it. So break the law. Wield the power. Especially if you genuinely feel like this will be the last ever election. Fucking declare an emergency, arrest Trump and everyone else involved in J6. Send the military to reassert power over the national border in Texas. Break up media monopolies, and nationalize telecoms. Why the fuck would you risk losing an election to a criminal gang who want to end democracy?
All those possibilities pretty much went out the window when the Democrats nominated Biden. Even if Biden was as left as we would like him to be, he is a technocrat who sees the norms as vital to maintaining the legitimacy of government.
I don't even necessarily disagree that maintaining legitimacy is vital, but I'd put representing the people over donors a notch higher than maintaining norms.
I don't actually think they were ever possibilities. Even if Bernie had won, his own party would have trampled over the repubs in order to impeach him first lol.
I don't think so. The more people actually hear Bernie speak, the more they like him. He wouldn't be hiding from the public like Biden, he would be leading rallies on the Whitehouse lawn. If Bernie had access to the bully pulpit, impeaching him would be political suicide.
The supreme Court is slow-rolling determining whether or not a president is liable for criminal activity in office until after the election. If they determine now, then either trump gets held accountable, or Biden has immunity from crimes in office, and can plainly jail or order a hit on trump and a good chunk of Congress.
Obviously though, the president is not immune from the consequences of crimes committed while in the office.
I just don't understand how you can believe that the supreme court can't or won't just ignore precedent.
Your suggestions are very tempting, I must say. We don't want to sleepwalk into fascism. It could be 1930s Germany all over again.
Trump and many of his gang were arrested already, though, and are facing trial. So far, the verdicts have shown that the justice system is still somewhat functional. I don't think it makes sense to flip the table as long as the justice system continues to hold Trump and his ilk accountable. Taking it to the next level and declaring an emergency would accomplish what, exactly? He has already been charged, so would the point of the emergency declaration be to skip the trial phase and go straight to hanging? Essentially it means outlawing Trumpism, which means purging the GOP, which means civil war. No one wants civil war as long as there is a chance to beat Trump constitutionally.
We had a situation in Canada in the 90s where our second largest province had a very serious vote on whether to separate from Canada. It would have literally ended the country as we know it. It was certainly tempting to arrest the leaders for treason to save the country. However, that would certainly have led to either a civil war or the Quebecois equivalent of the IRA in Canada. So, we persevered through the vote and the remainers won by about 1%, as I recall. We saved the country by the skin of our teeth, but through legitimate democratic means, and so the result was respected.
Yeah, purge them. As absolutely awful as a civil war would be, I say that it is preferable to risk it now than cordially handing over the reins of power to these clowns from hell. For one, civil war is by no means guaranteed. For all our big talk, most Americans will go along with 'the program', whether it's purges of fascists or purges of minorities. I'm afraid we have to choose one, and I much prefer the former.
Yes, that's correct. Slower slide means more of a chance to fix it.
Fix it how? Like what's the plan? Is there a plan?
Democracy cannot be permanently "fixed", it can only be preserved via endless education and participation.
Literally the only way to "fix" democracy is to participate in it.
OK? How does that happen? Is there a Dem plan to drive democratic engagement, because they obviously haven't done a good job of it yet. It seems like fear of Repubs is the main selling point to voting Dem, and it isn't exactly a thrilling strategy.
It happens when I go canvas and vote, not complain about it on the internet like you.
Sounds like you've got it covered then.
More people voted for Biden in the 2020 election than any other candidate in American history by a pretty significant margin, voter turnout in both midterms and general elections are at their highest points in 100 years, obviously something is working
You have to know that a lot of those votes were "against Trump" more than they were "for Biden" right? Heartening to see such resistance to what Trump represents, to be sure, but it's laughable to say that Biden earned those votes.
No there is a lesser chance. The worse the conditions get for the more support fascism gets.
If Trump does not win this election, an even worse person will win the next one
This, so much, this, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
The Democrats are ideologically incapable of dealing with fascism, they will not address the root causes, America will have an authoritarian in office within 8 years.
Quite frankly if America can't withstand trump's decrepit, corrupt, senile version of fascism then we're just going to fall to what ever ghoul the Republicans summon next.
But what can you really do? Not voting is beneficial to the open christo fascists, and the only person who has any real world shot at winning an election, for some mind melting reason Joe Biden. The same Joe Biden, who despite his kinda actually not terrible first term, is currently funding a genocide as the wold watches. It's a shit choice, but this problem isnt going to be fixed this cycle. It's like punching the clock.
Biden isn't the only one who could win, and seems to be worse off than a generic dem in swing States, by a long shot. They're choosing the candidate again, like they did with Hillary, from the ranks of the least popular people in the US. They're shooting themselves and blaming the left and Muslims in MI already.
I agree with you completely. I think the DNC is going to do what they want, and it will take time and deliberate action to change them. This cycle is going to be a Trump/Biden election. I don't see a way around it. Here's to 2026 and 2028 for making progress with elections. In the meantime we still have to donate and support with our time.
I'll be volunteering for Biden, because that's the best cause I believe I can support during this election. Doesn't mean I'm super pumped on him being the candidate.
Not give into cynicism and participate in the democratic process? Democracy isn't something that you can set and forget, it requires constant attention and participation or it breaks. We are where we're at because the GOP and big corporations have been carefully engineering widespread burnout in a large percentage of the working class population.
Oh for sure. I'm just saying the DNC is going to put up Biden, no matter what, so that's our choice this round. Action can be taken for 2028, but be real... They're not going to change horses.
I agree that it's frustrating that Democrats use shitty Republicans as an excuse to be just a tiny bit less shitty. However, it's getting really annoying that you can't criticize Trump without someone chiming in with "whadabout Biden?!" and you can't criticize Biden without getting a "whadabout Trump?!"
They're both fucking awful. It's a waste of time criticizing Trump because everybody knows who he is, and the people that like him don't give a fuck what he does. They aren't listening to your criticism. I'm don't think Dem leadership really wants to actually help working class people, but they definitely don't have much reason to start when people keep voting for the most "conservative" ones out of fear from the monsters which have mysteriously found a way to represent the other half of voters.
As far as Democrats go, Biden is amazing. He's supported Israel no more than Obama or Clinton did. He's forgiven tens of billions in oppressive student loans. He enacted a funding bill that will finally establish a HSR network in parts of America. He rolled back disastrous Trump era policies on immigration. He fixed Trump's disastrous COVID response. He re-established relations among NATO countries and was paramount in alerting the world that Russia was about to invade Ukraine when we all knew Trump was trying to weaken their military with his quid pro quo scheme.
In your opinion, how has Biden failed America?
To add to this. Biden has passed significant investments in growing manufacturing jobs in the US the results we won't really see for years. Planting a tree that he will never enjoy the shade of. He has approved renewable energy projects and initiated much needed improvements to energy transmission so more renewable energy can be in the grid when they are built. Biden has done a lot to advance our infrastructure.
Obama didn't even openly support gay marriage. I get that as the first black president he didn't want to give the GOP anything to call "radical", but Biden is doing so much progressives have been asking for in the past 30 years, it's very hard for me to not be excited by that.
Cricket cricket
....
Blyat
The more he loses the less likely he'll be to win, plus he's old as hell and not aging gracefully. Rebuking Trumpism is shoring up democracy.
Didn't we rebuke Trumpism last election? I'm asking why the fuck is Trumpism alternating as the most popular political position for the American electorate. This is an indictment of the political acumen of the Democratic party.
We did but facism will never go away. Before they slunk away but now fascists can connect with each other online. Instead of it being a few people that happen to meet up and connect now they can seek each other out. It's the same reason that racism has made such a dramatic resurgence. It will literally require eternal vigilance.
Is this how it is in all countries? An eternal choice between "whole fascism" and "skim fascism"?
Just ask about DC statehood and the Dems' inability to enfranchise over a million US citizens.
As soon as you scratch this problem, you discover how shallow and unserious the party is in "protecting democracy".
I agree, I'm just trying to get others to see how little "resistance" the Dems pose to the more naked fascism of the Repubs.
You know they don't . Their strategy was, is, and will continue to be: "The other side is worse".
Yep, and it is a shit strategy.
Because Trump is great for me fundraising and keeping party bigwigs at the trough
Sometimes in life there is such a thing that is called: "Maybe there is no Good Vs. Bad just assholes all around". Good luck with that
I know you mrrrkns absolutely hate it when furriners' talk about your politics, but it saddens me to see a fellow democracy in such a state. Both these guys are demented old f&@ks! These are the best candidates your democratic system can give you? Really? I know we Aussies have plenty to cringe about, but jeez!
Yeah. It’s super frustrating living in the United States and having these two old fucks as the voters choice. To be clear, I’m voting Biden, because he and the Democrats are the lesser of the evils by a pretty large margin, but they both fucking suck.
Why settle for the lesser evil? Cthulhu 2024.
I’m all in on spaghettification of the government. Gotta be better than this bullshit.
Trump is a result of the systems failure to address underlying problems. The underlying problems can all be associated with a single common source: Inflation.
Governments printing money at a rate greater than value is created in the economy, nets you inflation - and that has been going on since around the mid 90's in a very real way, and even before that. We can more or less call this the "NeoLiberal Era" if you like. Around the 90's is when things get bad - and to more or less cover it up, the CPI was manipulated (read: Fixed like you would fix a wrestling match) to make inflation look acceptable - in reality: Replace Steak for Ground beef in the CPI shopping cart and tell people it's still relevant.
End of the 90's you get the ,Com bubble and crash. 2008 Market Crash - and you get "Quantitative Easing" being sold as a fix - when all it is is, PRINTING MONEY. Then during the pandemic a huge push to shut down the economy (largely impacting the lowest wage earners the hardest just FYI) requiring the government to provide stimulus, coupled with grands, loans, and such to businesses in hopes they would keep people employed (hint: They didn't). And so we have had a series of the most NeoLiberal thing possible: Publicize the risk, privatize the profits, and screw the poor over in the process.
The fix: Reduce the Money Supply. Drive to a negative inflation number. But the kicker is? The wealthiest hedge funds, realestate investors, and what not would basically go belly up from that type of move. And why? Because if inflation lowers - the debts accrued cost more to maintain the interest on, than they can gain with inflation flipping for real profit over time. Once you reduce the money supply by at this point about 2/3eds - we can move to aiming for a 0% inflation number. The government should at that point be focused on reducing debt one way or another.
The real problem for the US Economy is, if any action is taken to reduce the debt - it will be a clear signal that the US economy is not gaining value, and that the Dollar Value is currently overvalued. And that could in a very real way cause a spiral. And a fear of the Spiral is making the long term problem worse as it's kicked down the road.
By the way: You can take the US out of this and replace just about any western nation into the mix and find the same problem. Actually, China really fits in here. And oh boy a correction is coming and it's going to be ugly.
I like the insinuation that the US is an actual "democracy" lmao
If we do an election and the wrong candidate wins, the democracy goes away.
So you can't vote for the wrong candidate.
And also, you can't vote for a third-party candidate.
And also, you can't abstain from voting.
So, really, you have exactly one choice that you're allowed to make.
Democracy!
but “allowed” is not accurate. you’re allowed to do any of those things. it’s just that all of them blow, and one blows less.
[Citation required.]
We could actually improve our democracy by making voting mandatory.
We'd get a better representation of how all of the voting-age population feels.
Then maybe we can get politicians that support more thorough voting system reform.
In Australia, we've tried that. I have to say, that I personally, am not a fan.
The consequences of forcing politically ignorant or complacent people to vote is that they end up deciding the result of the election, and you just get skilled used car salesmen as your politicians. They know all the buzzwords and three word slogans to keep the politically apathetic tuned in.
And how is that different from what we have?
we get that now tho…
Brazil has mandatory voting, and its just as rife with corruption and fascism as anywhere else. I like the idea of compulsory enfranchisment simply because it operates as a counterweight to disenfranchisement. A state with a legal duty to vote is one with a legal obligation to fully implement elections infrastructure (at least, in theory).
But when it comes to the quality of candidates? Well... Bolsonaro was not a paragon of civic virtue.
you’re right, now that i think about it—as long as gerrymandering gets banned at the same time. because guess who doesn’t want most folks to vote? the R party. you know, the one that wants to rule, not govern.
Also, unless you live in a specific set of states, your vote is effectively meaningless!
There's downticket stuff and that shouldn't be ignored.
At the same time, we get meager media coverage of the downticket races so its very difficult to discern who is good and who sucks unless you've got an in-group to turn to. I like to pretend I'm active in Dem circles, but I'll be damned if I know who to vote for on my state senate seat much less all the judiciary races. The one guy I liked to primary out the loathsome Liz Fletcher turned out to be a serial sexual harasser.
But yeah, pretending my vote in Texas will swing the national election is absurd. And then trying to tie that national election vote back to "Oh no, democracy is ending if you don't vote for my guy!" is even fucking dumber.
oof. perception +20
It is for anything besides president. That's the sad part.
i’d say it’s largely, tho not completely, a de facto oligarchy now.
It never was, or was ever meant to be, an actual "democracy". Imperial core countries' political systems only serve to protect capital and imperialism, with a thin veneer of "democracy" to discourage uprising and two parties to divide the working class.
deleted by creator
Sanders looks like Noam Chomsky in this picture.
By supporting a different Republican, how hard is it? In many states you can even vote in the primary of a party you're not part of, people think it's beneath them to pick a candidate of the party they dislike whose agenda is least-unlikable. There's no law preventing you from switching parties on a whim.
If trump wins and America can't defeat his senile version of fascism, then it's already on the death bed waiting for the next republican to take power...
trump is the best authoritarian we're going to get, he's easy mode, the republicans will get someone worse, someone who has the ability to think beyond his next shit.
It's not going to get better only worse...
how were republicans before trump? how was Bush? (i literally have no idea because I was 7 at the time)
Bush was far worse than Trump.
Didn't know Bush tried to overthrow the government after he lost
Tried? Bush did that.
lol
Bush started multiple wars and killed millions of people by lying about WMD's and blamed Iraq for doing 9/11 which was done by Afghanistan but actually by Saudis. And Bush passed many spying acts and abolished rights.
Trump bombed Suleimani and withdrew from Afghanistan. That's it for foreign policy.
Bush was infinitely more worse than Trump. Trump just looked really dumb
MUST WATCH: Bernie Sanders - Why People Vote For Trump
https://youtu.be/FSuaxqZLNwE
He's 100% right on this.
Man, it's crazy how similar that sounds to exactly what Biden has been saying all along:
Yet an off-the-cuff remark about asking wealthy people to accept slightly higher taxes is somehow all his breathless detractors want to pretend has ever existed.
I get your frustration, but this is a good thing. Bernie having the same message only strengthens it, and can convince people that won't listen to Biden.
We don't have the luxury of picking allies. If holding my tongue gets us a reluctant ally, I'll take it. None of us have to like each other. We just need to remember that fascism is the ultimate evil. We may bicker like dwarves and elves, but when the orcs appear, we need to fall lockstep shoulder to shoulder immediately.
Actions speak louder than words. Biden locked in Trump’s $2T tax cuts for the rich and corporations, bringing the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. Never mind the open loopholes they exploit to pay virtually nothing anyway. Then, Biden claims he wants to bump up the corporate tax rate to 28%, but can’t, for “reasons.”
What is this halfway corpo-fascist stance? How are we going to pay for that?! By cutting social programs meant to support the working class. Biden is full of shit on this issue, open your eyes.
Nuance glossed over for the sake of partisan shit-flinging:
Yes, reasons. Amazing how Bernie would have had to deal with exactly those same "reasons", isn't it?
Oh they're quite open. Trust me on that.
Let me be clear - Bernie isn’t in office right now. If he were, he’d have likely come up with some way to deal with these two.
It’s really too bad that Mr Biden couldn’t arrange an audience with President Manchin during this time to figure something out, since Manchin is calling all the shots. At least they got some things accomplished together. Any and all applicable environmental regs be damned.
Bernie is in office. He is the Chair of the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions. And he would not be in this position if the Democratic party had not heard what he is saying and agreed to demand government to perform better for the working class.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/in-new-role-as-labor-committee-chair-bernie-sanders-says-corporations-should-be-nervous
And everyone would get a pony.
If Trump wins what? An election?
It's a good thing no one who was ever democratically elected dismantled democracy so they could never lose the power they gained.
1, he's been elected before, yet we've still got our election system. 2, democrats are actually trying to dismantle democracy by denying a huge number of voters the ability to vote for their choice for president. Dont by hypocritical, flip the roles around and imagine Trump or republican states are the ones barring Biden from running. It's not gonna sit well with you is it?
Democracies mean the people decide, even if that goes against who you want to win.
If Biden committed the acts and, as of now alleged crimes Trump has been accused of, then Biden would need to be barred too. That's the difference with Trump supporters, the rest of us want the laws applied no matter which "team" the politician represents. It's people over party and not the other way around.
Sanders is one of the only politicians unworthy of the guillotine.
Bernie is a Genocide defender and wants to keep funding israel even now.
Bernie has proven that he is Controlled Opposition
Is he though?
Yes he wants to continue the 3 billion per year and does not want to sanction israel.
These are Bernies's own words he said in the video I linked above.
Funny how many comments just went poof! Gone! So this place is basically /r/politics now? Mods smoking out every opinion they don't like?
Funny thing is, the deleted comments were from liberals, not raging conservatives spewing bile and lies. Must not have passed the purity test.
👨🚀🔫👨🚀
Are they in the mod log? The link is at the bottom of each page.
Is there a way to filter by post? It's hard to find anything when it's everything from all communities.
Or maybe the mods are actually moderating by cutting out the off-topic arguments and BS threads that don't contribute anything to the overall discourse of the discussion.
I can imagine most of the comments were 14yo's and trolls saying GeNoCiDe JoE hUrRrR
My thoughts exactly. Why is it that these "politics" sites just end up going completely Left? Is this "politics" or "Democrat Politics?" I get confused... apparently, the Right isn't allowed to have an opinion any where anymore..
Does the right still have anything left to say that isn't hate speech? The entire conservative economic schtick has failed the reality test so badly that most conservatives don't even want to talk about it anymore. It's all border wall nonsense, election denial, and reactionary isolationism now, and that's the saner half of conservatism.
Yes. I'm Mexican American, family came here from Mexico, legally in the 50's. Worked hard, and established a great life. We were raised in a strict Catholic household, so, ideally, my family always votes Republican. This doesn't make us horrible people. We simply believe in different things than Liberals/Democrats. However, I'm also a firm believer in Gay Rights, Abortion, and social programs. But, I think there needs to be limits, rules, and restrictions on a lot of that stuff. That's where most of my political beliefs start to lean more Right. Sounds like you're just profiling based on what you read on Reddit and Lemmy. That's like me saying all Democrats and Liberals are anti-gun, anti-religion, and hate white people We know that's not true.
Political parties are not like sports teams and you aren't required to vote for a particular party just because you were born into it. Anyways, there is no correlation between being Catholic and voting for Republicans. Also, Biden is Catholic, and Trump is not - just in case you think that's relevant.
I never said anything about you being horrible. My comments were directed at the current state of Republican policy and rhetoric, not the personal character of Republican voters.
Your Pope is also a firm believer in social programs. He doesn't support Gay Rights and Abortion, but he takes a very different stance on them than Republicans.
So do Democrats. I've noticed this tendency for people on the right to make these kinds of sweeping statements that sound like fundamental policy positions but are really so meaningless that anybody could say they support them. "I believe in small government." "I am against excessive regulation." etc. No real point there, I just find it interesting.
The biggest curtailment of the welfare state in the least 100 years came from the Clinton administration. Obama's biggest safety net accomplishment was Obamacare, which was originally a plan from the extremely right wing Heritage Foundation.
No, I'm really not. Again, my comments were on the current state of Republican policy and rhetoric, so "profiling" doesn't come into it. This goes back to my point about sports teams. My observations are also based on what I see coming out of Republican politicians and media figures. Conservatives on Lemmy, and especially Reddit tend to keep largely to their own insulated communities, and I don't often visit.
Pray tell, these opinions of yours that you're afraid of sharing publicly?
I think there should be limits and restrictions on social programs. I believe in tough on crime, funding more police, not less. I believe that we should be allowed to question the billions being sent to Ukraine, without being told we're traitors and spineless. The Republicans are the ones trying to limit the amount of money we send all over the world, and for some reason, this makes them the party of the "bad guys." I'm against many ultra liberal views, like allowing petty theft to go unpunished, allowing the homeless crisis to grow in California because apparently, it's "not their fault."
Oh I got it. You're a moron who can't bother to rub his last two braincells together.
Spotted the tolerant liberal!
You're allowed to have an opinion and we're allowed to tell you that your opinion sucks
Ironically, many of the kids that worship the ground he walks on won’t lift a finger to walk his walk, let alone talk his talk. And don’t even get started on any of them actually making it to the polls.
There too busy folding their arms and pouting over Biden.
Meanwhile, as Bernie said: our democracy at risk.
If you let typos be typos and focus on the point of the words, you’ll find it easier to interact with people.
And if you don’t think it’s a typo, go ahead and spell check my comment history.
God you’re insufferable.
We don't have much of a democracy as things stand considering the average person doesn't influence policy lol. If all hope is on Biden clutching it out then we better brace for the end. Dems had 4 years to plan ahead.
What sort of plan do you think an incumbent president who has actually been doing policy should adopt?
We did plan ahead, I'm sorry you don't like what we planned but you were also fully welcome to participate in the process the entire time.
The same process that locked Bernie out?
The same one where biden literally promised he would be a one term president but now has turned around and is running again and there is no democratic challenger?
Yes that process. Sorry your internet comments didn't work to stop us!
Damn you suck at planning lmao
Well, our guy is president and yours is not.
If becoming less popular than when you beat Trump and enabling genocide is planning ahead, then I guess it is over.
Sorry to hear you're giving up but I guess that makes it easier for me.
This.
In the bi-line. I don't think these people know who Bernies supporters are.
Bernie is right about why people vote for Trump, he's wrong that it will be the end of democracy. America has never had a democracy, it's had an electoral college with gerrymandering and 2 senators per state.
You know perfectly well why he means. US democracy is shitty as it is, but it can become a lot LOT worse, and Trump will make sure that happens
How horrible is your life bro?
It's quite nice, actually, thanks! How about yours?
Well whatever we have is still better than a dictatorship.
So, which country with 300 Million people is doing it the right way? China? India? Do tell...do tell!
That’s what they said last time.
Socialism 2024. End the MIC. Vote 3rd party or enjoy Trump.
This literally every.single.election.fuck off with this whole thing.
They've been saying this every election. This line is the norm now. There never was much of a democracy.
I don't think it's a coincidence that "this line" became normal at the same time the GOP has been enacting antidemocratic legislation and putting forward antidemocratic candidates.
1940: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winnice_P._Clement
1964: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Eye_(United_States)
1981: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballot_Security_Task_Force
From 1838 to Present: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_disenfranchisement_in_Florida
It hasn't been forever. It's been since Trump started running, and the Republcan party pulled the Southern Stratgy Part 2.
Did climate change stop being real when we started breaking the record temp every year?
Were you alive in 2000? Bush & Gore were often parodied as too similar
Also, The End of History
Bernie wants to continue to support israel.
And Bernie refuses to acknowledge israel commits Genocide.
His words ring hollow.
Watch this pathetic man dance around the subject of a Genocide on two million people
Nice try. Go back to Truth Social and/or Russia.
Your linked evidence shows him saying that he wants to stop supporting Israel, contrary to the first sentence of your post.
It's a bit difficult listening to the interview with that YouTube guy telling you what to think, but it's there if you endure.
I got you MLH because there is clear need for help to explain what words mean and MLH explains it very well.
Sanders goes on to say that he wants to continue to give israel 3 Billion dollars per year and does not want to sanction israel. Even when pressed on the double standard with Apartheid south Africa.
here is the raw video.
Thanks for the link. I watched it to the end and I don't see the 3 billion claim, he kept saying he wants to stop money going to Israel. Feel free to timestamp where it is, maybe I missed it.
13:58. For more explanation you can watch the MLH video
There's nothing "raw" about this video. It's a fully produced and edited interview.
Did you just dodge the facts and respond with completely something irrelevant because you got proven wrong?
It is the raw video of the footage used by MLH so "raw" is the correct description here. Now respond to your claim of "Bernie not defending israel money."
lmao schizophrenic
Oh brother... they say the same thing every time a Republican becomes President....if Trump becomes President, he'll be exactly like he was before. This is just more fearmongering from the Left.
Well Trump did actively support an insurrection, I don't know how you can't see this as a threat to democracy in the US...
It will be the end of democracy. Just like last time. Remember when democracy died?
Most presidential elections have had some kind of doomsayers. This particular election has a candidate that supported (supposedly indirectly) an insurrection, stated it's ok to execute political opponents, and has openly said some very nazi like things. This election is a bit different than the others.
Then the left puts up a weak candidate, again, and says eat that shit sandwich, so I get the frustration.
What left?
All i see is fascist capitalism vs narcist capitalism. Neither cares what the people actually want. But yeah one is significantly worse… which means reasonable people have only one option to vote. Freedom be damned.
I can keep slapping your face and insulting your family, or I can kick you in the nuts and hit you with a baseball bat. You pick America
Don't worry, the democrats will yet again cheat enough to make sure they win and in doing so, save democracy. Cause god forbid people would decide who they want for president. That's not how you save democracy !
Democracy is more of a sliding scale than a true or false. The US has had significant democratic decline during the last decade or two, and it was definitely not helped by Trump.
Slide far enough and well, that’s the end of democracy.