"Men are bad at picking up on women's hints." What are your actual thoughts on this sentiment?
Either through memes or comments I keep seeing this sentiment pop-up from time to time. And I'm wondering what your (yes, you) consensus is on it.
I for one am too pessimistic to do anything with potential hints. Like even if there is a good chance I still just don't want to risk it.
One problem is that it's very socially unacceptable to mistake not-a-hint for a a hint. Maybe people should stop trying to 'hint' and be more direct.
This right here. I do not try to take any hints. If you like me say so.
It's worse when they do that shit on purpose like it's some stupid power move. I catch wind of that and I'm immediately flaccid. All interest is gone. I don't need that shit in my life.
If you get a “hint” wrong you could end up having a meeting with HR, being told to “fuck off, creep”, or some other negative result. So men might see what could be a hint, but the price of getting it wrong is too high for many reasons. So you either stop looking for them or just stop acting on anything that isn’t direct.
It’s also kinda the woman placing the responsibility and the work on the guy for making the “real” moves in an encounter or relationship. He needs to pursue her and pay attention, not the other way around.
I would also add there is an element of the expected pursuit of the woman after she has said no. Like, no means try harder. I think it's a good thing that a guy (or whoever) backs off once someone says they aren't interested. You shouldn't expect the guy you like to push past the first rejection then call the guy you don't like a creep for ignoring your no.
Like there isnt decades of movies that hinge on this whole premise too.
Especially in a workplace. If you decide to actually ask out a coworker No doesnt just mean no, no means "be very careful about what you say and how you act towards them for the immediate future in case they take something you say or do as a further advance and decide to report you to HR. Or decide that you are now treating them poorly because they rejected you and decide to report you to HR."
Just to be clear, these arent the ONLY outcomes and yes are extreme but I have seen both happen first hand.
Generally speaking, don't shit where you eat. Which is another way of saying, don't try dating in the workplace. That is almost always a bad idea, in many ways.
Regardless of any other fallout, I’d rather be someone women feel comfortable around, not someone they think “oh jeez, I have to be sure not to give any indication he might read as flirting.”
Yeah. I would totally rather not be treated as a creep. Sure wish I had a button I could press to change that.
Very well put.
It's common sense not to flirt at your job. You say something like "I'm going to the Flaming Donkey for a few drinks around 8 PM. Drop by if you want." If he or she doesn't show, then that's it.
I wasn’t making a judgment on the concept, only offering that it does happen. You are correct of course, it’s not good to date co-workers.
I'm an autistic woman, and I've found great success in leaning into my autistic tendencies. By that, I mean just being blunt and upfront. One of my favourites is that if I've got chemistry with someone I don't expect to see again, before I bid them farewell, I'll give them a note with my number on and say something like "I had a great time hanging out with you tonight, would you like to go on a date with me sometime?" And then I hand them my number and scuttle off like a crab because I can only put on a cool face for so long before I crack under the anxiety.
Aspie man here, it's harder for us to do that. I have a friend who I gave the standard, "Hi, my name is MapleEngineer and I have Asperger's. That means..." speech to when I thought she was hinting. She said, "Ok, you don't like hints?" "No." "Ok. I've always found you attractive and have fantasized about sucking your cock. We should get together." We did. It was awesome.
Life would be so by easier if the normies didn't muddy the waters so much with their hints and clues.
Oh yeah, it's why I mentioned I'm a woman - it's certainly relevant to my experience here. I don't have to worry about being perceived as threatening - if I flirt with a woman in an upfront way like I described, I never feel like there's a risk of frightening her. Whereas on the flip side, if a guy asks me out, I'm always a bit on edge because of the small minority who are not safe to politely turn down. "Privilege" is definitely the wrong word for this, but being perceived as non threatening does make some things simpler.
I have been accused of being incredibly dense because I mask by playing all new relationships with women as completely natural. The woman I mentioned in my comment was hinting hard but I played it neutral. After I had a couple of hours to think about it I went back and said, "I have Asperger's and here's what that means. Here's what masking is. I mask by playing hard neutral. I think you might be hinting. Hinting doesn't work with me. If you're hinting you need to stop and just say or ask what you want to say or ask. I won't be offended. I will probably say, 'Yes' (I'm a sexy Aspie and I always say, 'Yes'. )" So she just asked, I said, "Yes" and we had a good time. She told me that she had always found me and my attitude toward sex very appealing but thought I didn't like her because I never flirted or expressed any interest. She said that in the almost 15 years we had been acquainted I had never even touched her. I said I thought it would be fun if the first time we touched was a kiss. The first time we touched it was a kiss. Now I'm waiting to find out if she's going to go with me on a short road trip with one or two nights in a nice hotel this weekend.
I could've written this comment word for word. It really does make things a lot easier to just be direct, being able to do this is one of the very few outright advantages of our non-standard brains imo!
dog bless you
I'm male, and bi. I'm about equally bad at picking up on hints from men and women, but it seems more common with men to just flat out state what they want, either immediately, or after I miss their clue, which I'd presume to be cultural.
I'm bad with social clues in general, so I dunno if it's a male-thing, or a me-thing.
@VeganCheesecake It's a bit of both. I think the relevant concept here is Ask Culture versus Guess Culture.
I'm not sure if @FatTony is talking about romantic hints or all hints, but I think in many cultures women are socialised to be little a bit more Guess Culture than men, even if it doesn't come naturally. The same goes for LGBTQ+ in cultures that are repressive. And of course some nationalities tend towards one or the other.
As someone whose natural state is very Ask, I found this concept really helpful. Sometimes I straight out ask the Guess people if they are hinting to me.
That's a fun way to put this into concept!
The funny thing is, despite often being bad at ascertaining what is being hinted at, I have very much been raised in a 'guess' culture, a family that found itself to be very high-brow and fancy, which lasted until the companies went bust, and the debt caught up to them.
Anyway, that leads to me, while having lots of problem with reading 'guess' people (unless they grew up in similar circumstances, that usually helps), also apparently being pretty hard to read for many conversation partners.
In the end, I found that jumping over my shadow and just spelling out what I'm trying to say, ask, or think I'm being asked, usually resolves things.
@VeganCheesecake yeah I was raised in a mostly 'guess' family as well! They think I'm oafish.
You're right it does cut both ways. My 'guess' ex thought I was super hard to read because they couldn't grasp that I literally meant exactly what I said not some extra hidden meaning.
These days I'm with another 'ask' person so the only stress like that is figuring out what our mothers are trying to get at.
My mother's actually pretty approachable in that regard, she's a surgeon from a mostly working class family that married in. Anyone else can be pretty difficult though. Especially the part of the family that didn't crash and burn financially, though they life on the other side of the country, luckily.
I'm usually a bit taken aback when I meet a 'guess' person that gets legitimately offended when being asked stuff directly, because pretty much everyone in my circle is pretty chill.
I guess everyone is living in their own world, in the end.
That's interesting how it's linked to social class so clearly in your family!
Come to think of it, the guessiest guesser in my life is from an industrial factory-labourer workingclass background, but different country. They experience direct requests as confrontations, so they are very easy to inadvertently hurt. It used to exasperate me, until I read the above concept.
Yeah, kinda curious, might also be one families customs vs the others, though. Might also be a family that became wealthy at the turn of the last century, and then got stuck in the way they thought they where expected to act, enforced via 'traditions' taught. Dunno, really.
The guessiest person I ever met was actually the mother of my last partner. She was, on the one hand, usually offended by direct requests, while also very much assuming and extrapolating things from anything indirect one said, to the point where she often became incredibly offended by things no one said, but that she heard. It was exhausting, to a degree, and my first instinct was that she was looking for things to be offended about, either consciously or subconsciously, but I also feel that I can't really judge someone for the way they perceive the world.
I think once you get a group of people all guessing it normalizes it within a family as well maybe?
It really is a perception thing I think, but yeah it can feel incredibly exhausting for us, instinctively oppo and I guess frustrating for them.
I had some insight once when a sibling was complaining about how they kept making excuses not to pick up a gift they'd accepted and they seemed genuinely angry the person was still offering and hadn't "taken the hint" they don't actually want it. It's flabbergasting to me but seems like that's really how they see things.
One way to normalise it was probably that there where euphemisms seen as the acceptable way to hint at, or say something. I guess.
And yeah. I think people just need to come to terms with there being a range of ways others express themselves, and that they can't expect everyone will just understand their specific way immediately.
@VeganCheesecake I agree. Communication can be hard but it's rewarding.
Three things: one woman's "hint" is another woman's platonic behavior and "hints" are meant to be subtle so that they provide plausible deniability if there is no interest returned.
Dont blame us for not "getting" hints when part of the point is to be able to easily brush them off as not being signs of romantic interest. If you are interested in a dude, use your words.
And lastly, us not asking a woman out in response to her hints doesn't necessarily mean we didn't get the hints. It may just mean we aren't interested in that particular person and dont want to make it awkward.
Also there’s a lot of flak in our society for men who overstep their bounds. Responding to a hint can also be harassing someone.
Let's get to the point of clarity where the hint is recognized as the harassment.
We're not bad....we're careful.
Make the wrong call and you are considered a creeper or worse.
Nah, we pick them up, but false positives are way too dangerous to risk it.
Men cannot afford to go through the process of trial and error to learn to follow hints. The risks from misreading the situation are far too high.
Uh yeah, they can. That's exactly how it was done before the Internet. Yes, it's embarrassing, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.
You misunderstand, he's one of those guys that thinks he can accidentally rape someone by misreading social cues.
Ah.
I'm a bisexual trans woman. I've dated men and women while presenting as male, and as presenting as female. In my experience the whole "not picking up on hints/not leaving strong enough hints to be picked up on" thing is not a gendered issue.
Honestly I really don't think men and women are as different as they appear.
Your username is awesome
It’s the roles that’s different. Men are the ones who are supposed to detect and then transform hints into direct communication.
After 34 year, i think my husband is tired of hints. Recently he said, "i don't know what you're talking about. If you want (do it), touch my (junk).
How am I supposed to tell that you're actually hinting and this isn't just you? I've literally had that happen where a girl seemed super into me. Constantly talking to me and coming up with every reason to be close to me or touch me. I asked her out and she had a boyfriend and I'm just like "alright I'm never asking a girl out again this shits infuriating"
So now I just don't even think about it much. Occasionally I'll see a pretty girl and want to interact with her but then remember my experiences and go back to not caring.
Tbh, it sounded like she was into you
It's happened multiple times with multiple women and I've resigned myself to believing it's clearly something about me that no one is willing to tell me is a problem so I've just given up entirely ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Let me try: You're decently attractive, quick to offer help and have a meek and gentle nature. Sounds like you? These women were looking for a shoulder to cry on without giving anything in return. She was touching you because things weren't going so great with her boyfriend.
I think most men are so infamously dense because they don't want to misinterpret things. It's a really thin line to walk and falling might ruin a friendship or make things very awkward. Very good manners/kindness and flirtatiousness are very difficult to distinguish.
Making the first move and reading things wrong can really hurt, especially if the other party wants it too. I had a female friend that was very friendly, who'd hug and hold hands with me at times. Friends told me to go for it. When I did she told all of her friends and I was collectively humiliated by the whole school. You could say I dodged a bullet, but it felt like I was by a car.
I'm over it now but I'm now very risk averse. Unless somebody are practically yelling at me to date them, I will only assume friendly intentions
Be a fucking adult and express your desires and intents clearly.
"How about we finish this drink and we go to my place to fuck?"
Works 100% of the times, everyone should try it and stop it with the immature waste of time that is flirting /s
Or you could just say "Want to come back to my place?" Like a civilized adult.
Does that express your intent and desires clearly though?
Yes, it does.
So if she accepts, it means she understands and is 100% dtf to you? Boy I have bad news..
Did I say that "DTF?" If she wasn't interested in you, she wouldn't go. When she's there, you feel the situation out, see where it goes.
You'll understand these things when you're an adult.
Please dont be that edgy it hurts, I have taken home a girl or two back in my going out days. The last one that I've bought a house and made kids with. While I had fun I'm glad I don't need to deal with that anymore, particularly in this decade as it was abit more relaxed when I did it.
What you seem to be missing in your simplicity is that the whole post is about young males scared about making a move, mentioning plausible deniability, wishing women were more clear, and needing more than a hint to take a risk these days. The person I replied to made an asinine comment dismissing all these concerns, and you ran with it thinking it was smart, and triple down.
Whatever you say, Junior.
I'd put that percentage a bit lower, even for women. They could be flirting with a gay man, or a man that just doesn't find them attractive.
Proviso, comment is based on old memories.
There was some research done on how women flirt. Women particularly put out IoIs (Indicators of Interest). These include things like hair flick, lip touching etc. When a woman is attracted to a man, the rate of IoIs goes up, sometimes 200-300% baseline.
Unfortunately, the catch is the baseline. Women vary widely on this. Some normally use 2-3/hour, others all the way up to 120/hour. This is where men can often get in trouble. A woman sending them 60/hour might be a 20 flirting outrageously, or a 120 who is actively disinterested. Trying to advance things will get vastly different results with these 2 women.
Because of this, a lot of men get risk adverse. Even if they pick up on the hints, they are not sure if they are reading them right. Conversely, a few men go the other way. These men tend to have a disproportionate, problematic effect on women. This is why most men don't think that sleazy, overly handsey men aren't much of a problem, but women vastly disagree.
Basically, men are stuck in a "damned if they do, damned if they don't" situation. Even worse, the men who figure things out tend to find a good partner and pair up, taking them out of the pool.
To add to the confusion, what women say they want, and what actually works can be quite different. The same applies to men. However, since men are generally expected to make the first move, they tend to screw it up a lot more (and get burnt).
Why does this get an 'even worse' qualifier?
Because it leaves the blind leading the blind, leading to really stupid ideas getting too much traction. Both in being too aggressive, and being too passive. Neither work well.
It also creates a biased pool, which helps fuel the really negative views of women.
It's the same effect as happens in weight loss groups. Those who succeed tend to move on. Those that hang around and gain "authority" tend to have failings.
Don't get me wrong, it's a good thing for the people involved, but bad for those left.
https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/01/27/news-58/
This is about only hiring the top 0.5% of software engineers, but it applies to dating too! The people in the pool the longest are the least attractive.
Hints are great if what you look in a partner is the ability to solve puzzles. Otherwise, they should be skipped. Proper communication is key to any successful relationship.
I am 100% thick as bricks when it comes to picking up on hints directed at me.
But I have no problem seeing others flirting and one of them being oblivious to it.
That being said, now I am married I am ok with being oblivious.
Anecdotally, I had two female coworkers that acted the same way around me, kinda flirty but in a more friendly way, I felt, rather than trying to hint at anything. One said "EWW" out loud when someone suggested we date, and the other told me way after the fact that she was super in to me and I should have made a move.
The women I've actually dated made an effort to make sure our feelings were not only known, but reciprocated before laying down the "rizz" too much. I have no problem lightly flirting with someone that has no desire for a relationship, its fun, but that can't be the only sign you're in to someone when it isn't even REALLY a sign for a lot of people.
Women resort to dropping hints when they're too scared to risk rejection by being direct.
I don't why my comment has appeared as a reply to this.
They also respond to rejection with accusations of sexual assault as if that's just the perfect way to save face(as if saving face is necessary).
I would say I’m reasonable at picking up hints, usually takes me about 4-10 years though.
I am terrified of making people uncomfortable, generally a lot more with women than men. Unless someone is very explicit, I will pretty much never act on a percieved hint.
"Why is this man so dense? He never responds to the subtle clues I carefully place behind a veil of plausible deniability."
If you're trying to make a move without making a move, that might be the reason he's not responding. You're asking him to take on all the risk of misinterpretation. At some point somebody has to be overt. If you're presuming it should be him, you should ask yourself why you think that.
You're spot on, I no longer deal with said "veil of plausible deniability"
This is 100% how I approach all sorts of relationships in my life, not just romantic. That's called direct and open communication.
I will straight up ask (politely) that someone clarify what their explicit stance is, if they refuse or try to play coy about it I simply let them know I don't know where they stand and I don't know what they want.
I've done this with bosses, siblings, my son, and my partner. I have grown to respect people much more because I understand them better and have also cut out some toxicity from my life that I didn't know was eating away at my happiness.
It's true, I basically had to learn to be super blunt to men.
"I think you're cute, want to go on a date with me"
Because literally nothing else gets through :|
Could you help fellow lemmings by saying how even approximately pick hints, i mean, many men mistake goodwill and good chat for relationship hints, as for me, I'm like op, I'm way too pessimistic to trust hints
Picking up on hints is a thing that requires a lot of social context and emotional empathy/intelligence. Unfortunately I don't think there's any pro tips I can offer to help you better identify them except interact with girls more and have honest conversations where you're not trying to get the girl to date you - it's learning the hard way, but bridging that emotional understanding gap is the only good way to get a better understanding of girls as people (and get your heart rate down so talking to them isn't a panic).
That said, if you can find the confidence, being a little blunt yourself can work as well. Girls can be dense too.
A lot of the reason girls are doing the subtle hint stuff is because they're also not confident / unsure / scared of rejection / scared of coming off too strong. It's a way of feeling out a situation without strong commitment. We kind of expect guys to do that back so that we can have a sort of subtle social fencing game to figure out if there might be mutual interest. (unfortunately, most of the time, everyone involved is too dense for this to be effective)
Honestly both sides kinda suck at this in their own ways.
Thank you)
It gets through, but we're not 100% and don't want you telling your whole circle of friends how much of a creep some dude is because he shot his shot.
If all you can do is hint, you don't deserve to get laid. You have to put yourself out there if you truly want to make a connection.
If I interpret what I see as a hint in the wrong way, and actually act on that misinterpretation, it could almost trivially lead to my arrest, conviction, and likely incarceration. And any sort of record - even if I was exonerated - could do significant to severe damage to my life-long economic potential.
So I just don’t fucking deal with hints. The math just does not make that a viable option in any logical or rational way.
If you, as a woman, can’t come out and converse like a functional adult, imma just gonna ignore you wholesale like the immature, games-playing child you are.
Unless your response to a hint is sexual assault, how do you think that it's supposed to trivially lead to your arrest?
I think you need to update your 60s-era viewpoint to include unwanted attention and a metric arseload of other things a lot less severe than outright rape.
This world isn’t black and white. There are a lot of shades of grey, and most of that spectrum has been criminalized (for men, specifically; women aren’t affected) since your obsolete and archaic viewpoint ossified itself into your brain.
Men have been arrested for as little as making a woman uncomfortable. Even when he didn’t even realize she existed in the first place.
Shoo, incels. Women might be pissed when you approach them, and might insult you, but that's about it, unless you actually assault them.
They actually have a lot of trouble making cops move their butts when actual rape is committed, so nothing important is going to be done about guys hitting on girls 🙄
Leave your incel talking points at the door.
https://muskokatoday.com/2022/05/man-arrested-after-approaching-women-they-say-made-them-feel-uncomfortable-suspicious-fearful/
You were saying? And that’s just one of the first articles in the search results.
Interesting how the first thing you reached for was an ad hominem that is explicitly designed to shut down any conversation by shaming the other person into silence and into compliance with the female supremacist narrative.
Almost as if you had absolutely no viable counter-argument to provide.
Edit: And I am married. 18 years this year, 28 years with the same woman. So I am absolutely ineligible for the incel attribute. I just refuse to ignore uncomfortable facts, and will never bow to anti-reality ideologies.
Married men can (and often are) misogynist pigs. You may not be an incel, but get your facts straight.
Funny you should mention reality. Isolated facts happen, but they're not characteristic of a larger reality that the poor men are oppressed by women. In fact, the opposite oppression exists in a systematic way: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_harassment, https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-002-x/2019001/article/00017-eng.htm
Crybabies. Don't be a creep, and you'll be alright. Open streets are not the right place to pick up women minding their own business. And even if you do it, the worst you're likely to get is an insult, meaningless anecdotes aside, because cops are fucking useless.
What business does a man married for 30y have in talking about seduction? You clearly haven't spoken to actual women in a while to seduce them, by your own admission further down in the discussion thread, and you're spreading FUD about things you haven't experienced. Stay on your lane. The world doesn't need your misogynist ramblings. We all have uncles at Christmas dinners for that, thank you very much.
Fragile crybabies.
As a gay man and outsider on this issue, it seems mildly sexist. It's the kind of thing that fits in with the content at over at r/AreTheStraightsOk.
The assumption that women are giving hints all the time rather than just trying to get through their day seems wrong.
And the idea that men need to get better at figuring those hints out rather than leaving them alone also seems wrong.
But whenever I hear the issues which men and women who date each other face I am often baffled.
Well you exist in a community (that I'm not a part of but have been pretty thoroughly immersed in in the past) where in my experience supply and demand of sex or sexual favors is roughly 50/50. It vastly simplifies things when the number of people who would like a blowjob is pretty well matched by the number of people who want to give one.
"You want to suck some dick? Awesome! I have a dick and enjoy getting it sucked. If you're still cute when I have some post nut clarity I might offer to buy you a drink to get the taste out of your mouth"
I think someone downvoted you because cum tastes awesome!
I think what you described is more of a side effect of the lack of a gender-based power differential and equal sexual culture between the two partners.
I don't think that gay men are as hyper-sexual as the stereotype suggests, but we do have the option to be so without having the repercussions women would face.
Yes it is a wild oversimplification, but I worked and ran security for a few seperate gay bars/clubs over the years so I saw more of the "meat market" side of the community.
In general that's also where we got the stereotype, our bars and bathhouses. These were the more visible parts of our community for a very long time, and they're places gay men went to meet each other and hook up before apps were a thing.
It would be like judging all men by the men who go to strip clubs.
It's not that it's necessary wrong, in that there are lots of gay men, myself included, who fit that stereotype. But it inherently excludes people who don't fit from being considered.
I think that's similar to the statement OP is asking about, but I am not sure where the "women give hints and men miss them" trope comes from.
Oh I'm not silly, I knew gay people outside of that context and worked straight clubs too, I just noticed the differences in that context were the same as in regular day to day life only amplified.
Hints are bad, my relationships have all been with people who say what they want in plain English.
The hints are sometimes trash
I'm a woman and not so good at picking up anyone's "hints". And when I do try, it rarely ends up being the intended hint.
I don't even think it's true that men are particularly bad at this. Everyone is.
And I don't think hinting is automatically a negative thing like so many are implying. It just depends on your preference and then ultimately comparability. Hinting is a form of flirtation. Flirtation extends the tension period of romance/sex, and can add fun and excitement. Some people prefer a direct approach.
I don't think anyone picks up on subtle hints unless they're constantly looking for them. And most people aren't looking for them.
Everything will looks like a hint if one actively looking for it.
And constantly looking for them will drive you crazy.
I hate the idea of hints. Because A. You then have to make the person your interested in make their own way towards you, and B. Then they have to notice it and then take a risk. I think it's FAR better, to give your crush an opening, serve them a line on a silver platter.
For example:
My wife was interested in me and she opened with:
"Am I too close?" To which I could've replied "nah you're good" or "yes, a bit" without any fuss. but, since I was also interested, I replied.
"Oh nonsense, if anything you're not close enough" which, can easily be dismissed as me being silly, but nope, she's interested. So she responds
'OH really? So how close can I get?"
Like, set up a romantic line. If there's a romantic line to be had. If they're interested, they'll take it.
That's the same thing
This literally described picking up a hint
Yep lol, I thought I was going crazy reading it.
I know other people replied telling you already that this is exactly what the Op is taking about so I'll be a little more exact in my reply.
I've had this exact scenario happen to me two different times and with two different women when I was younger. One viewed me as someone they were interested in and one viewed me as a platonic friend amongst a group of friends.
The first one was the platonic friend. I took this as her trying to snuggle up to me when we were sitting next to each other on a couch and she flatly rejected my advance where I asked if she just wanted to snuggle so she could be more comfortable.
The second time a similar situation happened with a different group of friends at a party and instead of trying to reciprocate what I perceived the first time as a flirt, I opted to stand up and go sit on the bean bag chair so she could have more personal space. Much much later someone told me she was flirting with me and asked why I didn't try and snuggle with her. By the time they had told me this, she was no longer interested in me romantically. Presumably because I spurned her in front of everyone, much like the first person I mentioned did to me.
From then on I accepted that if I missed out on potential romantic opportunities because I didn't interpret a hint from a woman correctly then it was no great loss. They're clearly not a good match for someone like me who prefers clear and enthusiastic consent when entering into a physical relationship.
The first time I kissed my wife on our first date I asked her if I could kiss her. I've had multiple people tell me that it was lame to do or that I "should have just gone for it", but I preferred to be very direct with my intentions and make sure I'm not putting someone else in an awkward position where they're letting me kiss them because they're not comfortable plainly rejecting me.
Making the conscious decision to always be direct with my desires and potential love interests was one of the better choices I've made in my life. It allowed me to by myself without requiring "game or rizz". If the other person didn't respond positively then no big deal as we likely aren't compatible as potential partners.
TL;DR: Hints are fucking dumb.
Be open, speak plainly, and be direct. This isn't just something for people who fall on the spectrum. Pretending to be anything other than exactly who you are around the people you're most comfortable with is a silly game that will end up with you likely losing in the long term. You can't keep up your "first date persona" forever and eventually the real you will come out and they might not like who they see.
Historically, I've been terrible at interpreting hints. These days, I often worry about whether these hints are genuine, leading me to assume they are simply being kind.
Whenever I attempted to decipher these hints in the past, I was invariably rejected. Consequently, as an adult, my self-esteem has suffered greatly. So much so, that with the last woman who dropped hints, I merely wanted to be friends. Five years later, I still think about it.
Needless to say, my job doesn't provide many opportunities to meet women.
I too suck at it.
If I am picking up on a vibe I don't go all in. I point at the elephant and say: look, I think I see an elephant. Is it really there? My eyes play tricks in me sometimes, but I could swear you brought this elephant with you into the room.
Then they will say: yes, I did, or no, no elephant.
And then you carry on, with or without the elephant.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't
I always pick up on women's hints... the next day, when it's too late.
I think my personal record is about 6 years.
...ohh, THAT'S why she wanted to go back to her place. Damnit.
Try 15 years. There was this cute girl who'd always kind of hang around in the background, but never said a word. She made a big mistake by repeatedly sending her solid-10 friend to talk to me about her, and we fell in love instead.
Years later, another girl tried the genius tactic of inviting me and about a dozen gorgeous female friends of hers to a bar, then sitting straight across the table from me and just glaring at me intensely. I started thinking "gee, she must really hate me" and made my move on the girl sitting next to me. Who was the only one I could actually talk to, because it was just too noisy in that bar.
There were other times when I immediately picked up hints from girls because they made it abundantly clear what they want from me, but they simply weren't my type, so I basically ignored them, which only made them try harder. I realize now that to them, genuine disinterest and blissful ignorance must be indistinguishable.
I can tell when I’m being flirted with for the most part, but I can’t tell whether it’s flirting for fun, or they’re genuinely interested.
I honestly cannot tell if anyone is flirting with me or not. I also cannot imagine that anyone would flirt with me in the first place, but if anyone did, I still wouldn't know. The only flirting I knew was when my wife called me up and lectured me for not asking her out. Apparently, she had been flirting with me and I didn't know. I am not bright.
Doesn't mean you're not bright! You might just have difficulty recognizing emotion / subtext like with ASD.
when we met, my bf never picked up any of my hints, and i gave him many. i mean we met online, had a lot in common, and got along really well right away. i mean he was exactly my type and i was very clear about that as we got to know each other lol. but i only hint at interest until i'm sure, and then i get direct, so i eventually asked him out. he seemed pretty embarrassed for not picking up on the hints afterward, especially the more direct ones, but i just thought he was pretty adorable for it. i've never really thought all men are necessarily bad at taking hints in particular i mean i have never put much thought into whether a particular gender is worse at picking up on hints but i'm a woman and i've dated and had situationships with men, women, enbies and more and and in hindsight i'd say i've been bad at picking up on hints and everyone's been bad at picking up on my hints so probably everyone's bad at it lol
I think we always assume our own communications are super clear, and we blame other people when they don't understand. That goes for flirting, but also everything else involving two or more people trying to communicate.
i agree; communication is very complicated and for example even understandings of common phrases varies sometimes not just regionally but from person to person, so it makes sense to me that people in general often struggle to pick up on hints, especially the more subtle the hints are, and that's no one's fault. for hints in terms of sexual/romantic i think i would also probably factor in self esteem as depression and anxiety are epidemics in our society that are only getting worse as it becomes harder to maintain social lives as third places disappear. low self-esteem often comes with depression and anxiety and people who struggle with it may assume that no one would/could be interested in them or be flirting with them. idk, that at least described me for a long time when i was younger. in the case of my bf he's also autistic and struggles to pick up on social cues in general, much less flirting
It's true. I once played spin the bottle with one other person and didn't realize what the plan was after playing it. Thought it was just an awkward interaction until she asked brought it up a couple years later.
Later on in life, a girl invited me to a sleepover and we were joking and having fun shared a bed and went to sleep. I woke up to her crying because she took it as me finding her ugly and not being into her.
Needless to say neither went anywhere because I guess my smooth brain was not an attractive trait.
That's actually kinda sad. Oh well. Clear communication is key!
I know I suck at picking up on hints, unless it's someone I know very well - and even then I suck at it. I'm honestly just sorta scared that if I mistake a non-hint for a hint, then I'll ruin a great friendship or something.
However, there once was this one woman who made it fairly obvious she was attracted to me and, after a few dates, said something to the tune of "we're going back to your place now, or this isn't going to work out". So anyway, we're married now. Half the time her "hint" when she wants to have sex is asking me why I still have underwear on. Of course sometimes things still progress there naturally, but then she also makes it fairly obvious if she's truly in the mood.
Point of the story is, ladies, if you really like the man, feel like he likes you too, and he's not getting your hints, don't be afraid to be direct. Sure guys like the chase too, but to have a woman straight up tell you that she's really into you and feels a special connection with you that she's never felt before? It's just such a beautiful experience... There's just so much I'll never forget, even if our ways were to be parted one day.
Too general, aka always wrong
Some of us are just bad at picking up on hints, whether they come from women, men, or grizzly bears.
I had a woman flirting with me yesterday at the bulk food store. Happened to be at the coffee grinder, and she was struggling with it, and I just spontaneously teased "you broke it I'm telling"!
This led to a little bit of banter and talking about recipes, which led back to how she likes to get her coffee here.
I told her how I like ro enjoy my morning espresso.
She smiled and gave me that flirtatious side look and mellifluously intoned "I'd sure love some morning espresso... Brought to me in bed..."
The words floated off my lips "is your kitchen floor cold? Should I bring my slippers?"
She immediately looked shocked, faced directly at me pie-eyed. "I should have known better. Typical response from a man."
I was fucking gobsmacked.
Don't ever tell me that men don't pick up signals, we have been trained... by women, to never pick up signals.
I've been married for 10 years and have two kids. I'm still not sure if my wife likes me. I haven't picked up any hints. I must've missed them all.
Maybe she's from Canada and is just being polite.
It's a legit possibility.
Dude, it's been 10 years.... she's definitely interested. Probably.
Make up some bogus tiktok challenge with a list of questions she has to answer. Slip: "Do you like me?" In the middle of the list.
Make sure to video it with your phone so it looks legit for tiktok..... but really, you can study her response to dylm? over and over for years to come looking for clues to if she really does like you.
It's still a coin toss. She may just be nice.
My sentiment is that men are in this horrible place where consent is king, and explicit communication is necessary, but too many women still want to play hard to get, or do these tiktok challenges to trick men into giving them a reason to be angry.
I mean, if men are bad at taking the hints of human women, maybe that means we are meant to take the hints of women of other species like elves, fairies, sexy space aliens or something else.
Downvotes? This is quality commentary!
How dare they downvote good shitpost!?
I was always terrible at picking up on hints, but even when I did get the hint I was generally either not interested in pursuing something, too cowardly to pursue it, or I had a preference to go about things a bit slower.
Sometimes women can be attractive and hint a lot, but once you've burned yourself once or twice you realize it's better to take things slow than to risk getting involved with someone more crazy than you can handle.
Amongst people I am closer to and actually like I am absolutely oblivious at times, but I would much rather err on the side of friendship.
Well first of all there's no such individual as "men" so it's impossible to generalize. Some can and some can't. I think it's however safe to assume that on average we're not that great at it.
In my own case I think I'm quite good at reading the underlaying emotions of especially my girlfriend but then again I know her really well anyway. However this goes a bit against my suspicion about my autism because you'd think I had more trouble with that. Then there's also the fact that I'm tall and somewhat handsome if I may say so myself so I haven't really experienced the situation of a woman not wanting to talk with me but I can see when they don't want to talk with someone else.
Seems like a way to foist off the responsibility for shitty communication on the supernaturally-supposed-to-be-recipient, in my opinion.
I'm seeing a lot of "acting on a not-a-hint is way too dangerous" comments. I'm curious as to what you think acting on a hint is. They almost never mean "let's make start boning with no further communication".
Just ask "are you flirting with me?"
I know a girl who hinted so badly that she wants me to send her nudes but kept laughing afterward. Until one day I told her that I would send her then she said she was joking and acting like a horny man. That's one example of many I have in my life where a girl would tell me that we should be boyfriend and girlfriend, then when I proposed to go out with her and gave weeks to choose from where I know she had no work, she replied that she is a busy woman and keeps her day offs to her many friends. I was devestated and felt like a creep. I also had a female friend who had forever hinted that we should fuck, and when I went to her house she showed up to me covering her boobs behind the door of the shower wet covering her boobs with her hands , and I immediately apologized and said I didn't know she was in shower, and she said it's okay come in. So I go in thinking she wanted action, but guess what? After I kept pushing and hinting she said she was just being herself and never wanted shit. I can go on and on with such stories. They all made me literally too numb to give a fuck anymore and I wouldn't pick up a hint if a girl I'm with started masturbating in front of me unless she made it clear she wants me to join. Anyway, I gave up on this shit long time ago. I came to terms with the fact that females and males have different brains when it comes to sexuality
It’s not just men, as an autistic woman I have a hard time with this too. It’s better if people are just straight forward and plain spoken
Sucks to be someone who only communicates in hints, I guess.
I think the definition of a hint is communication that’s difficult to clearly receive.
There are multiple layers to this hornet's nest of a topic. But from a personal perspective, I know I was (still am?) terrible at reading such interest from women. Luckily, I'm happily married, so I don't need to worry about it now.
In the past I've literally had to have women launch themselves at me or graphically proposition me before I was aware that they were really into me. And even then it was often a surprise. And there were a few times I asked out girls who I knew and seemed to have done chemistry with, and they recoiled in alarm. And I'm a fairly average neuro-typical guy. So yeah, I think some of us definitely have trouble reading the interest of women in those one-on-one situations.
Quite a few of my make friends have run into similar experiences. While a few others assumed any woman who spoke to them must be into them. Which is, of course, the other side of the same 'unable to read women' coin.
But adding to all that, there are all the tricky social obstacles to navigate. Things like:
So yeah, it's a fucking (pun intended) mess.
Women are bad at picking up men's hints.
Humans are just bad at picking up flirting because everyone's idea of the thing is different.
True in my case. When my wife wants a particular piece of jewellery for her birthday, the only way to make me realise is to slam my head down on the counter next to it and say "THIS. I WANT THIS."
I swear, honey, I thought you said you wanted a glass jewelry counter. I distinctly remember how hard and cold the glass was when you told me that you wanted one......
My life.
Well I know I am. I don't like subtlety. Too easy to mistake from friendliness. Be direct and honest or go home.
The Apple Vision Pro will fix this. You'll get a ❤️ symbol above people's heads when they are interested in you.
Hahh! I'm bad at picking up on anyone's hints!
I agree with what everyone has already said and...
Some people flirt to practice, or see if they can get a response, to measure their own self worth, to see "if they still got it", as a measure of power, or something to do when bored.
The game ends when the target takes the next step, and then it's no longer fun, and now 'creepy'. You can see similar behavior on dating apps with people who swipe yes, but then reject people in conversation.
So now not only do people have to recognize the hint, they also have to figure out the intention of the hint giver... i.e. was this a serious hint?
Women give hints? :p
maybe it's more, women feel like they have to give hints because being direct can receive judgment or not be safe. so it's not that they're bad at hinting it's just that they have to use hints a lot more often than we do, and I can't pick up a hint to save my life
I ignore their hints because I'm not interested in ever having kids in a world like this and because they hint to bait me into some kind of trouble where they control the narrative.
Lol, men should have a mantra, "She's a WAITRESS, she's just being nice!" "She's a BARTENDER, she's just being fun!" "She's at the grocery checkout, she's just making small talk!"
"She's just a person being nice to other people. You are just a person she is being nice to. Be nice and leave her alone!"
I've never had a man not pick up on my interest. I have been called brutally honest though, so maybe I'm a bit more direct than most. I have had the reverse problem where they think normal politeness is an invitation.
It's actually more a question of women's hints being unable to penetrate men's insecurities and generalized incompetence when it comes to intimate matters.
I think men are as good at picking up on hints as anyone. I think their entitlement often leads them to ignore said hints, and then they try to cover their backsides by claiming ignorance.
Are the straights okay?
Some are, most arent. Thats probably not exclusive to us straights though