Ranked Choice Voting! Find your local RCV group and find ways to help get RCV implemented in your city! It’s something that sees opposition from republicans and democrats so you know it’s good.
I'm a fan of STAR voting myself, but anything is better than the first past the post system we have now.
If Star has traction in your city I say go for it! RCV just seems to have the most momentum.
Could you give a quick primer on what STAR voting is? I got a star from my teacher some 30 years ago, but somehow I doubt the system is based on those..
STAR, or Score Then Automatic Runoff, differs from RCV in that instead of ranking the candidates in order of preference, you can assign a rating to each, out of five stars. All of the stars are added for each candidate (score), and the ones with the fewest stars are eliminated (automatic runoff), then the scores are added again, another runoff, etc.
So say you love candidate C, you dislike candidate B, and you hate candidate A.
In an RCV system, you'd rank C,B,A, and if C is eliminated, your full support goes behind B, but in the initial scoring round, only your top ranked candidate gets your full vote.
In a STAR system, you'd maybe give C five stars, B two stars, and A zero stars. You're still giving some support to B for the initial scoring round, but most of your support goes to C.
So the biggest difference is that in the initial scoring round, your preference for candidates other than your first choice are considered. Check out this video, which gives a good breakdown of voting systems and how they account for spoilage: https://youtu.be/oFqV2OtJOOg?si=8sLYiYpA7EnOt94i
It would be nice if they did that for the Democratic primaries.
It’d also be nice if they couldn’t just override the primary election results because it’s not a “real election”
Yes, I’m still a bit bitter about how the DNC treated Bernie in the 2016 election
As you should be as this is part of the reason why Ttump got elected in the first place.
They did not override that one. Sanders did not even win the non superdelegates. That's not to say the 2016 Democratic primary was not fucked. Party officials clearly had a preference and were obviously pushing Clinton. Showing the super delegates planned counts before they actually voted made it seem like Sanders had no chance. They need to minimize the number of super delegates so that they can only decide really close primaries.
Eh, fair enough. Undermined, cheated, manipulated, schemed, swindled, deceived, duped, defrauded, etc might have been a better description.
I was curious about this. Since political parties run their own primaries, then they can decide to use whatever voting system they want. I suspect that RCV primaries would produce a candidate that is more competitive in the general election (though I don't know enough about electoral math or demographics to be sure). I'm certain that RCV has a tendency to discourage scorched earth campaign tactics, so party candidates would be less prone to trying to destroy one another.
My city does ranked choice voting, and it's great! I would love to see it at the state level.
That’s awesome! What city? What was the process for getting it on the ballot and what helped getting it passed?
San Francisco has had ranked choice voting since 2004. IIRC they called it "instant run-off voting" and it would save from having a run off election for the mayor and other elected officials.
It's stunning that each party managed to find a candidate that could lose against the other.
Its not that stunning. In fact, its more common than you'd guess.
Only Ford could lose to Carter. Only Dukakis could lose to Bush. Only Hillary could lose to Trump. Hindsight 20/20. Foresight blind as a fucking bat.
Ford did himself in. Apparently in 1976, American's didn't like the fact that the President could commit crimes while in office and get off with a pardon from his former VP. Crimes he was never charged with or convicted of.
Today, a scandal is like a badge of "honor" and being a convicted criminal and morally bankrupt sleezeball is basically a requirement for the Presidency. At least it is if you're a Republican.
The existence of Project 2025 makes all of the "which candidate is better?" discussion completely irrelevant. If you support the people that support Project 2025 then you're a bootlicker who wants to end popular representation in the government and replace it with authoritarianism. If you are vocally against the people who oppose Project 2025 then you are collaborating with the enemy.
Any other option is better.
Meanwhile Project 2025 on the Democrat side is the codename for the medical advances being pursued to keep Biden functioning through to 2025.
(I kid of course, you're absolutely right, as depressing as that is)
I think Trump retiring and the Republicans replacing him with a charismatic, young, intelligent christofascist would be devastating for the Democrats (and humanity) right now and I don't know why they don't do it.
For that matter I don't see why Democrats don't replace Biden with a charismatic, young, intelligent social democrat which would be equally devastating for republicans. So who knows with these people.
They don't do it because it doesn't serve them personally. As we have seen time and time again, politicians are mostly griftfers that will flip on a dime and change their moral compass just so that they can benefit from the situation.
By personally do you mean financially? Because I think an argument for personal benefit could be made for blowing the opposition out of the water.
By personally, I mean money, power, favors.
Any influence they can use for themselves.
Charismatic + Young + Intelligent + Christofascist...
0 results found.
I think Republicans might need to remove one search criterion to make that work.
As for Dems... that might just be AOC? Lol
You're right. DeSantis would've been catastrophic if he wasn't such a little weirdo with no charisma.
I would love to vote for AOC. She will be old enough to run next year, but it will be four years before the next election.
She checks all the boxes unless you're the type to believe Republican spin (she was a bartender once but has more education than most GoP house members). I'm unfortunately sure she'll get the same DNC treatment as Sanders, though :/
I don't think the DNC will be able to stop her. They can only do so much. I was a huge Bernie fan, volunteered at rallies and everything, but even I can acknowledge that the support was not quite strong enough to overcome the establishment headwind. He came close twice, but I think there were a number of people who wrote him off over his age and whatnot.
I think AOC could tip the scales, she's young and smart and has real conviction. She has all the Bernie benefits with none of the baggage.
Honestly I think aoc is the only I could be excited to vote for right now.
That spin is hilarious when you consider the source, they voted for a reality TV personality and didn't bar an eye when he padded his cabinet with family members and inept grifters.
I'm unfortunately sure she'll get the same DNC treatment as Sanders, though :/
What, other than bleak cynicism, leads you to that conclusion?
Why, bleak cynicism of course!
No really, it's just my concern since she's on the progressive side and you know how the Dems are.
I mean there's definitely intelligent enough people who just want to use people
Of course! But I don't think there's any public figure Republicans who fit the bill.
You don't think there's people out there to chirp the republican agenda for their own personal gain? People are definitely smart enough to say things they don't believe in to manipulate others
Who's both charismatic, young, and intelligent? Don't get me wrong, I'm quite aware people lie to manipulate others (that's like all religions) but I don't think there's someone in the GOP, or are GOP aligned celebs, who fit the description. Like... who? The best they ran celeb-wise Dr. Oz and he's am uncharismatic weasel.
Maybe two of the three, but even that's a stretch (DeSantis for instance might be two of three but I have doubts he's particularly intelligent; maybe by GOP standards). I guess someone could emerge but whoever they are, they ain't on my radar.
I'd love to vote for AOC too
I don't think you'll be happy with the one Republicans choose to get rid of.
I think one of the big things is the MAGA voters vote for Trump and ONLY Trump. They don't turn out for elections without him in it. The Republicans know that without the MAGAs, they're not gonna win the presidential election.
Also this is purely theory but I wouldn't be surprised if Russia gives Trump information he can blackmail Republicans with. I'm sure Russian honeypots have dug up a lot of stuff over the years.
Maga is a cult of personality. The Republicans' fear is they won't turn out for anyone but Trump.
As for the Democrats, the line they always give is that social democrats can't win elections, but honestly, I think the party elite is afraid of what would happen if they did.
I think both things can be correct at the same time. Unfortunately, they have quite a bit of evidence to support the former argument, which means they don't have to openly engage with the latter. The closest we got to the veil coming off was 2016, but whether or not we agree with them that the left can win elections, the fact of the matter is they generally don't except in the most ideologically homogenous districts.
Because the cult is about the man, not the idea. Ron DeSantis tried to be just that (not saying he holds any of those qualities that you mentioned, just that he tried) and failed because no one cares about what Trump actually stands for (when you listen to Trump supporters talk about him, you’d think they would actually vote for democrats considering the issues they bring up—barring the worst of the worst racist, homophobic deranged individuals of course). At the end of the day, they just care about their god-lord little-hand long-tie orange-faced crybaby and the made-up grievances he’s had to endure and how that somehow translates to their own impending persecution.
The reason the Democratic Party hasn’t does that is they hold the monopoly on milquetoast impotence in governing, as their corporate overlords have decreed.
Not saying I take everything Biden says at face value but he has stated that he wouldn't be running if Trump wasn't. I think there is sound rationale behind it though. Trump just flings shit all over everything, Biden has already been through it. Why expose a promising young candidate to that? Next election cycle the GOP primary candidates are going to be trying to out trump and whoever is going to be the dem candidate will be looking that much better because of the shit the GOP smeared all over themselves.
The point I'm making is more than a little devils advocate though. Dems need to address the enthusiasm gap, it seems like theyre going to be leaning on the grassroots movement from pro-choice groups. Fingers crossed it's effective.
Charismatic, intelligent people don't need fascism nearly as much as dumbfucks do but even for the few who get sucked in anyway, there's easier and more self-serving ways to express it than a grueling, always-on position in the Republican party.
But ultimately the answer to both "why don't they run someone actually good" questions is "because it would be a threat to neoliberals and their record profits".
Yeah I figured it could be seen as encouraging christofascism but I just yearn for young politicians.
Young = under mandatory retirement age
I'd accept under average age of death at this point.
Well, in any developed nation in the world except the US, they would be.
They don't have anyone nearly as good as him. People give Trump a lot of shit, deservedly so, but he's one hell of a politician. Nobody can galvanize their base like he does.
Yeah. Agree 100%. His greatest political victory was to convince people that a born wealthy real estate clown is an "outsider" to politics that can relate to the common folk. A true outsider would be an engineer, doctor, scientist, etc. Someone that doesn't have the ability to increase their wealth by millions with minor tweaks in the law.
Ever notice that corpo speak and political speak are exactly the same. Like how they can both run circles around any question without ever answering it? Yeah.
These old stodgy dudes have two things going for them that young guys don't (yet) have - a lifetime of building a support network of donors and mastery at playing "the game".
They should retire at 60 and pass along their donors and skills to a few proteges, but recently they cling until the very last breath.
It would still be better then trump but i would like to see a party that doesn’t suck since we have a two party system with 0 good options which is why im voting for biden despite hating him (rather incompetent then malicious)
This is the current state of US politics - it's more about who you're against than who you're for, and I firmly believe this is the reason why no scandals seem to matter anymore.
On the conservative side, they get a steady stream of content telling them how horrible Biden and the Democrats are, so anyone with a heartbeat and an (R) next to their name is fine. It's probably how Trump of all people became the party leader.
Strategic voting is a direct result of first past the post voting; effectively any system that uses FPTP will result in a two party system where your vote gets used against the other person not for your choice.
I’ll continue to shill for ranked choice voting whenever I see any opportunity.
We desperately need it if we want reasonable candidates again.
I’m against all these assholes taking bribes from whoever they can and above all else ignoring the needs of their constituents. Recall them all!
On the progressive side, they get a steady stream of content telling them how horrible Trump and the Republicans are, so anyone with a heartbeat and an D next to their name is fine. It’s probably how Biden of all people became the party leader.
Sure, if you ignore all the progressives who hate Biden and protest his handling of Palestine constantly, you can pretend that both sides are lockstep behind dear leader.
That was also true in 2020. And in 2016 for Hillary.
I have never whole heartedly supported the Democratic candidate (because I'm far more left than any of them have ever been), but I've always voted for them, because they're far better than the other option. This time they're just so far better than the other option, not because they are any better, but because the other option is so astoundingly worse. So, I guess, welcome to the club.
But I will say, Biden has been more progressive than any other candidate in my lifetime. Again, that's not saying much, but hey, it's better than nothing. He's just killing himself by supporting Israel.
This is sanest take I've seen on the matter. Good to see nuance is not dead!
But I will say, Biden has been more progressive than any other candidate in my lifetime.
I agree and I can remember every president since Nixon. Not one single president in the past 50 years has been better than Biden.
I supported them wholeheartedly for like a day when I moved from libertarianish something in my teens and early twenties to slightly progressive. I feel exactly the same.
Isn't this the general sad state of democracy? Specially in America and it's 2 party system?
Rarely people get to vote for whom they want, they vote against the one they dislike/fear the most
It's the sad state of democracy in all electorates that use demonstrably shitty voting systems like first past the post. Because those force you to vote strategically.
Biden has not been as bad as I expected him to be, but he is out of touch with the average American. Politicians need mandatory retirements. We need someone under the age of 65. But I'll take him over the convicted felon.
I'll take him over any republican. He's been fine, but we could do better. We could also do much worse.
I'd take a leftist of any age over a 35 year old centrist.
“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in."
Important to note that the lizards also have all the power and removing them would be exceedingly difficult and bloody.
Which book is this
Hitchhiker’s Guide
So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish, specifically.
This was the answer I was looking for.
You can listen to the whole book on audio book for free here:
No shit. That’s been his whole platform from the beginning.
Anyone who who is capable of getting themselves made president should on no account be allowed to do the job.
ETA: Anyone downvoting this is not a hoopy frood
Any man who can hitch the length and breadth of the Galaxy, rough it, slum it, struggle against terrible odds, win through and still know where his towel is, is clearly a man to be reckoned with.
Yeah no kidding. Why else would anybody vote for the dude?
He's actually been surprisingly effective at governing. He's low key been the best president we've had in decades.
Obama was a good president hampered by his will to try and get everyone to work together. I'd say his one weakness was prenegotiating with the republicans and trying to bring them to the table constantly. It was obvious they never would work with him.
He also bungled the Russian election interference by not letting the public know what was going on.
I would absolutely vote for Biden over any Republican. And most Dems, with the notable exception of Sanders.
I would vote for AOC over Biden in a heartbeat.
The only reason I'm voting for him is that he's not trump.
I'm not voting for Biden, I'm voting against trump
Just like I didn't vote Biden in 2020, I voted bye Don.
Vote Democrat because they don't have a plan to spend the entire system and fuck everything up much more than it already is. It's not just trump that is an insane asshole on that side.
That's what democracy is like pretty much everywhere.
Good thing they conducted a poll to figure this out
Yeah, instead of using polls to verify things, we should just go on our hunches for everything. Measuring things? Science? Pshaw I say, pshaw!
I thought this was an Onion article at first. Of course most people voting Biden are only doing so because the only other option is convicted felon Donald Trump.
Biden is a loser president in a loser system. But if the option is him or Insurrectionist/Felon/Rapist Donald Trump, it is the option people will vote for.
This must be some in-depth research to arrive at this conclusion
There's never been more evidence that we need to change voting systems in the US. We'll continue to pick the lesser of two evils until that happens.
And it won't, because both parties collectively have a stranglehold on the realisticness of such a change.
Sometimes I wish my competitors were as stupid and unsympathetic as Trump.
It's the exact same sentiment as the 2020 election.
Man who closed the deal with 43k votes out of 5.7M across three pivotal states happy to report he has well over 80% of his original voter base behind him.
Same guy that won with over 7,000,000 more votes. Yup, that guy. PRESIDENT Biden.
If an extra million people vote for you in California, the electoral college won't care.
Yeah it sucks I have to vote for Biden because that conservative doctrine sounds scary as all hell, and Trump is a felon. I'm looking for a president that at the very least pretends to care about the environment, and that is not Trump who is an oil company stooge.
Support? Or begrudgingly vote for him?
No shit! That's our fucking election system. After the primaries, we wind up withtwo candidates that most people don't like, and we vote against the one we think is worse. It's been this way for a very long time. Case in point:
Acting like this is shocking news is disingenuous bullshit.
I'm not American but the list of things I would support over Trump is not small.
I get the feeling Trumpers would have trouble comprehending this. Trumpers are in a straight up cult and I'm guessing it kindof doesn't compute that the majority of Biden voters kinda hate him and vote for Biden in spite of that.
One of the most common refrain from Trump supporters as to why it was impossible that he lost in 2024 was effectively "we treat Trump like our cult leader and follow him everywhere. . . but democrats don't do this with Biden! No way he could beat Trump."
In other news, water is wet.
surprising nobody
While reading this headline I began thinking to myself "Duh, of course they did. -Why even bother publishing a story like this. It doesn't even serve any valuab... ohhhh, right."
Shits mostly are none, Sherlock finds.
"Popular men, tey must create strange monsters, and then quell 'hem ; to make their artes seeme something. "
I would have thought Biden supporters would support Biden. This is hardly a revelation.
Ranked Choice Voting! Find your local RCV group and find ways to help get RCV implemented in your city! It’s something that sees opposition from republicans and democrats so you know it’s good.
I'm a fan of STAR voting myself, but anything is better than the first past the post system we have now.
If Star has traction in your city I say go for it! RCV just seems to have the most momentum.
Could you give a quick primer on what STAR voting is? I got a star from my teacher some 30 years ago, but somehow I doubt the system is based on those..
STAR, or Score Then Automatic Runoff, differs from RCV in that instead of ranking the candidates in order of preference, you can assign a rating to each, out of five stars. All of the stars are added for each candidate (score), and the ones with the fewest stars are eliminated (automatic runoff), then the scores are added again, another runoff, etc.
So say you love candidate C, you dislike candidate B, and you hate candidate A.
So the biggest difference is that in the initial scoring round, your preference for candidates other than your first choice are considered. Check out this video, which gives a good breakdown of voting systems and how they account for spoilage: https://youtu.be/oFqV2OtJOOg?si=8sLYiYpA7EnOt94i
It would be nice if they did that for the Democratic primaries.
It’d also be nice if they couldn’t just override the primary election results because it’s not a “real election”
Yes, I’m still a bit bitter about how the DNC treated Bernie in the 2016 election
As you should be as this is part of the reason why Ttump got elected in the first place.
They did not override that one. Sanders did not even win the non superdelegates. That's not to say the 2016 Democratic primary was not fucked. Party officials clearly had a preference and were obviously pushing Clinton. Showing the super delegates planned counts before they actually voted made it seem like Sanders had no chance. They need to minimize the number of super delegates so that they can only decide really close primaries.
Eh, fair enough. Undermined, cheated, manipulated, schemed, swindled, deceived, duped, defrauded, etc might have been a better description.
I was curious about this. Since political parties run their own primaries, then they can decide to use whatever voting system they want. I suspect that RCV primaries would produce a candidate that is more competitive in the general election (though I don't know enough about electoral math or demographics to be sure). I'm certain that RCV has a tendency to discourage scorched earth campaign tactics, so party candidates would be less prone to trying to destroy one another.
My city does ranked choice voting, and it's great! I would love to see it at the state level.
That’s awesome! What city? What was the process for getting it on the ballot and what helped getting it passed?
San Francisco has had ranked choice voting since 2004. IIRC they called it "instant run-off voting" and it would save from having a run off election for the mayor and other elected officials.
Yup. Y’all had it for a while.
It's stunning that each party managed to find a candidate that could lose against the other.
Its not that stunning. In fact, its more common than you'd guess.
Only Ford could lose to Carter. Only Dukakis could lose to Bush. Only Hillary could lose to Trump. Hindsight 20/20. Foresight blind as a fucking bat.
Ford did himself in. Apparently in 1976, American's didn't like the fact that the President could commit crimes while in office and get off with a pardon from his former VP. Crimes he was never charged with or convicted of.
Today, a scandal is like a badge of "honor" and being a convicted criminal and morally bankrupt sleezeball is basically a requirement for the Presidency. At least it is if you're a Republican.
But bats aren’t blind
The existence of Project 2025 makes all of the "which candidate is better?" discussion completely irrelevant. If you support the people that support Project 2025 then you're a bootlicker who wants to end popular representation in the government and replace it with authoritarianism. If you are vocally against the people who oppose Project 2025 then you are collaborating with the enemy.
Any other option is better.
Meanwhile Project 2025 on the Democrat side is the codename for the medical advances being pursued to keep Biden functioning through to 2025.
(I kid of course, you're absolutely right, as depressing as that is)
I think Trump retiring and the Republicans replacing him with a charismatic, young, intelligent christofascist would be devastating for the Democrats (and humanity) right now and I don't know why they don't do it.
For that matter I don't see why Democrats don't replace Biden with a charismatic, young, intelligent social democrat which would be equally devastating for republicans. So who knows with these people.
They don't do it because it doesn't serve them personally. As we have seen time and time again, politicians are mostly griftfers that will flip on a dime and change their moral compass just so that they can benefit from the situation.
By personally do you mean financially? Because I think an argument for personal benefit could be made for blowing the opposition out of the water.
By personally, I mean money, power, favors.
Any influence they can use for themselves.
Charismatic + Young + Intelligent + Christofascist...
I think Republicans might need to remove one search criterion to make that work.
As for Dems... that might just be AOC? Lol
You're right. DeSantis would've been catastrophic if he wasn't such a little weirdo with no charisma.
I would love to vote for AOC. She will be old enough to run next year, but it will be four years before the next election.
She checks all the boxes unless you're the type to believe Republican spin (she was a bartender once but has more education than most GoP house members). I'm unfortunately sure she'll get the same DNC treatment as Sanders, though :/
I don't think the DNC will be able to stop her. They can only do so much. I was a huge Bernie fan, volunteered at rallies and everything, but even I can acknowledge that the support was not quite strong enough to overcome the establishment headwind. He came close twice, but I think there were a number of people who wrote him off over his age and whatnot.
I think AOC could tip the scales, she's young and smart and has real conviction. She has all the Bernie benefits with none of the baggage.
Honestly I think aoc is the only I could be excited to vote for right now.
That spin is hilarious when you consider the source, they voted for a reality TV personality and didn't bar an eye when he padded his cabinet with family members and inept grifters.
What, other than bleak cynicism, leads you to that conclusion?
Why, bleak cynicism of course!
No really, it's just my concern since she's on the progressive side and you know how the Dems are.
Not an American, but AOC is who I hope the Dems go with next time. She's the only thing I envy about your political situation atm.
I mean there's definitely intelligent enough people who just want to use people
Of course! But I don't think there's any public figure Republicans who fit the bill.
You don't think there's people out there to chirp the republican agenda for their own personal gain? People are definitely smart enough to say things they don't believe in to manipulate others
Who's both charismatic, young, and intelligent? Don't get me wrong, I'm quite aware people lie to manipulate others (that's like all religions) but I don't think there's someone in the GOP, or are GOP aligned celebs, who fit the description. Like... who? The best they ran celeb-wise Dr. Oz and he's am uncharismatic weasel.
Maybe two of the three, but even that's a stretch (DeSantis for instance might be two of three but I have doubts he's particularly intelligent; maybe by GOP standards). I guess someone could emerge but whoever they are, they ain't on my radar.
I'd love to vote for AOC too
I don't think you'll be happy with the one Republicans choose to get rid of.
I think one of the big things is the MAGA voters vote for Trump and ONLY Trump. They don't turn out for elections without him in it. The Republicans know that without the MAGAs, they're not gonna win the presidential election.
Also this is purely theory but I wouldn't be surprised if Russia gives Trump information he can blackmail Republicans with. I'm sure Russian honeypots have dug up a lot of stuff over the years.
Maga is a cult of personality. The Republicans' fear is they won't turn out for anyone but Trump.
As for the Democrats, the line they always give is that social democrats can't win elections, but honestly, I think the party elite is afraid of what would happen if they did.
I think both things can be correct at the same time. Unfortunately, they have quite a bit of evidence to support the former argument, which means they don't have to openly engage with the latter. The closest we got to the veil coming off was 2016, but whether or not we agree with them that the left can win elections, the fact of the matter is they generally don't except in the most ideologically homogenous districts.
Because the cult is about the man, not the idea. Ron DeSantis tried to be just that (not saying he holds any of those qualities that you mentioned, just that he tried) and failed because no one cares about what Trump actually stands for (when you listen to Trump supporters talk about him, you’d think they would actually vote for democrats considering the issues they bring up—barring the worst of the worst racist, homophobic deranged individuals of course). At the end of the day, they just care about their god-lord little-hand long-tie orange-faced crybaby and the made-up grievances he’s had to endure and how that somehow translates to their own impending persecution.
The reason the Democratic Party hasn’t does that is they hold the monopoly on milquetoast impotence in governing, as their corporate overlords have decreed.
Not saying I take everything Biden says at face value but he has stated that he wouldn't be running if Trump wasn't. I think there is sound rationale behind it though. Trump just flings shit all over everything, Biden has already been through it. Why expose a promising young candidate to that? Next election cycle the GOP primary candidates are going to be trying to out trump and whoever is going to be the dem candidate will be looking that much better because of the shit the GOP smeared all over themselves.
The point I'm making is more than a little devils advocate though. Dems need to address the enthusiasm gap, it seems like theyre going to be leaning on the grassroots movement from pro-choice groups. Fingers crossed it's effective.
Charismatic, intelligent people don't need fascism nearly as much as dumbfucks do but even for the few who get sucked in anyway, there's easier and more self-serving ways to express it than a grueling, always-on position in the Republican party.
But ultimately the answer to both "why don't they run someone actually good" questions is "because it would be a threat to neoliberals and their record profits".
Don't give them any ideas, please.
Yeah I figured it could be seen as encouraging christofascism but I just yearn for young politicians.
Young = under mandatory retirement age
I'd accept under average age of death at this point.
Well, in any developed nation in the world except the US, they would be.
They don't have anyone nearly as good as him. People give Trump a lot of shit, deservedly so, but he's one hell of a politician. Nobody can galvanize their base like he does.
Yeah. Agree 100%. His greatest political victory was to convince people that a born wealthy real estate clown is an "outsider" to politics that can relate to the common folk. A true outsider would be an engineer, doctor, scientist, etc. Someone that doesn't have the ability to increase their wealth by millions with minor tweaks in the law.
Ever notice that corpo speak and political speak are exactly the same. Like how they can both run circles around any question without ever answering it? Yeah.
There's a possibility that this would provoke demobilization among Trump voters.
These old stodgy dudes have two things going for them that young guys don't (yet) have - a lifetime of building a support network of donors and mastery at playing "the game".
They should retire at 60 and pass along their donors and skills to a few proteges, but recently they cling until the very last breath.
It would still be better then trump but i would like to see a party that doesn’t suck since we have a two party system with 0 good options which is why im voting for biden despite hating him (rather incompetent then malicious)
The USA really needs preferential voting, like what Australia has: https://www.chickennation.com/voting/
I have to assume the reason is because they don't have anyone. If they did they'd be relatively forefront in politics and you'd know about them.
Probably why the Republicans attacked AOC so hard and made sure all their followers knew exactly where they were supposed to stand in regards to her.
This is the current state of US politics - it's more about who you're against than who you're for, and I firmly believe this is the reason why no scandals seem to matter anymore.
On the conservative side, they get a steady stream of content telling them how horrible Biden and the Democrats are, so anyone with a heartbeat and an (R) next to their name is fine. It's probably how Trump of all people became the party leader.
Strategic voting is a direct result of first past the post voting; effectively any system that uses FPTP will result in a two party system where your vote gets used against the other person not for your choice.
I’ll continue to shill for ranked choice voting whenever I see any opportunity.
We desperately need it if we want reasonable candidates again.
I’m against all these assholes taking bribes from whoever they can and above all else ignoring the needs of their constituents. Recall them all!
On the progressive side, they get a steady stream of content telling them how horrible Trump and the Republicans are, so anyone with a heartbeat and an D next to their name is fine. It’s probably how Biden of all people became the party leader.
Sure, if you ignore all the progressives who hate Biden and protest his handling of Palestine constantly, you can pretend that both sides are lockstep behind dear leader.
You've clearly never asked a progressive how they feel about the Democrat party.
Exactly. I was just using the conservative side as my example because the post topic was already covering the progressive side.
boTh SIdes aRe The sAMe!!!
Yep. The GOP is waging a War on Democracy and Dems have been using the wrong brand of mustard.
"People voting for watching paint dry instead of poking sticks in their eyes appear to be mostly motivated by avoiding sticks...in their eyes."
That was also true in 2020. And in 2016 for Hillary.
I have never whole heartedly supported the Democratic candidate (because I'm far more left than any of them have ever been), but I've always voted for them, because they're far better than the other option. This time they're just so far better than the other option, not because they are any better, but because the other option is so astoundingly worse. So, I guess, welcome to the club.
But I will say, Biden has been more progressive than any other candidate in my lifetime. Again, that's not saying much, but hey, it's better than nothing. He's just killing himself by supporting Israel.
This is sanest take I've seen on the matter. Good to see nuance is not dead!
I agree and I can remember every president since Nixon. Not one single president in the past 50 years has been better than Biden.
I supported them wholeheartedly for like a day when I moved from libertarianish something in my teens and early twenties to slightly progressive. I feel exactly the same.
Isn't this the general sad state of democracy? Specially in America and it's 2 party system?
Rarely people get to vote for whom they want, they vote against the one they dislike/fear the most
It's the sad state of democracy in all electorates that use demonstrably shitty voting systems like first past the post. Because those force you to vote strategically.
Lesser-of-two-evils-ocracy
Biden has not been as bad as I expected him to be, but he is out of touch with the average American. Politicians need mandatory retirements. We need someone under the age of 65. But I'll take him over the convicted felon.
I'll take him over any republican. He's been fine, but we could do better. We could also do much worse.
I'd take a leftist of any age over a 35 year old centrist.
“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see..."
"You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?"
"No," said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, "nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people."
"Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy."
"I did," said Ford. "It is."
"So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't people get rid of the lizards?"
"It honestly doesn't occur to them," said Ford. "They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want."
"You mean they actually vote for the lizards?"
"Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course."
"But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?"
"Because if they didn't vote for a lizard," said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in."
Important to note that the lizards also have all the power and removing them would be exceedingly difficult and bloody.
Which book is this
Hitchhiker’s Guide
So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish, specifically.
This was the answer I was looking for.
You can listen to the whole book on audio book for free here:
https://archive.org/details/hhgttg-ab
Damn, Douglas Adam’s coming hard.
I mean no shit.
Not-trump party go brrr.
In other news, water is wet.
No shit. That’s been his whole platform from the beginning.
Anyone who who is capable of getting themselves made president should on no account be allowed to do the job.
ETA: Anyone downvoting this is not a hoopy frood
Any man who can hitch the length and breadth of the Galaxy, rough it, slum it, struggle against terrible odds, win through and still know where his towel is, is clearly a man to be reckoned with.
Yeah no kidding. Why else would anybody vote for the dude?
He's actually been surprisingly effective at governing. He's low key been the best president we've had in decades.
Obama was a good president hampered by his will to try and get everyone to work together. I'd say his one weakness was prenegotiating with the republicans and trying to bring them to the table constantly. It was obvious they never would work with him.
He also bungled the Russian election interference by not letting the public know what was going on.
He got the hang of it eventually
https://youtu.be/5EPPTRAZeX0
I would absolutely vote for Biden over any Republican. And most Dems, with the notable exception of Sanders.
I would vote for AOC over Biden in a heartbeat.
The only reason I'm voting for him is that he's not trump.
I'm not voting for Biden, I'm voting against trump
Just like I didn't vote Biden in 2020, I voted bye Don.
Vote Democrat because they don't have a plan to spend the entire system and fuck everything up much more than it already is. It's not just trump that is an insane asshole on that side.
That's what democracy is like pretty much everywhere.
Good thing they conducted a poll to figure this out
Yeah, instead of using polls to verify things, we should just go on our hunches for everything. Measuring things? Science? Pshaw I say, pshaw!
I thought this was an Onion article at first. Of course most people voting Biden are only doing so because the only other option is convicted felon Donald Trump.
Biden is a loser president in a loser system. But if the option is him or Insurrectionist/Felon/Rapist Donald Trump, it is the option people will vote for.
This must be some in-depth research to arrive at this conclusion
There's never been more evidence that we need to change voting systems in the US. We'll continue to pick the lesser of two evils until that happens.
And it won't, because both parties collectively have a stranglehold on the realisticness of such a change.
Sometimes I wish my competitors were as stupid and unsympathetic as Trump.
It's the exact same sentiment as the 2020 election.
And the 2016 election (for many of us)
Man who closed the deal with 43k votes out of 5.7M across three pivotal states happy to report he has well over 80% of his original voter base behind him.
Same guy that won with over 7,000,000 more votes. Yup, that guy. PRESIDENT Biden.
If an extra million people vote for you in California, the electoral college won't care.
Yeah it sucks I have to vote for Biden because that conservative doctrine sounds scary as all hell, and Trump is a felon. I'm looking for a president that at the very least pretends to care about the environment, and that is not Trump who is an oil company stooge.
Support? Or begrudgingly vote for him?
No shit! That's our fucking election system. After the primaries, we wind up withtwo candidates that most people don't like, and we vote against the one we think is worse. It's been this way for a very long time. Case in point:
https://youtu.be/riDypP1KfOU?si=xwlInd1CS9p7rYcT
Acting like this is shocking news is disingenuous bullshit.
I'm not American but the list of things I would support over Trump is not small.
I get the feeling Trumpers would have trouble comprehending this. Trumpers are in a straight up cult and I'm guessing it kindof doesn't compute that the majority of Biden voters kinda hate him and vote for Biden in spite of that.
One of the most common refrain from Trump supporters as to why it was impossible that he lost in 2024 was effectively "we treat Trump like our cult leader and follow him everywhere. . . but democrats don't do this with Biden! No way he could beat Trump."
In other news, water is wet.
surprising nobody
While reading this headline I began thinking to myself "Duh, of course they did. -Why even bother publishing a story like this. It doesn't even serve any valuab... ohhhh, right."
Shits mostly are none, Sherlock finds.
"Popular men, tey must create strange monsters, and then quell 'hem ; to make their artes seeme something. "
I would have thought Biden supporters would support Biden. This is hardly a revelation.
To the surprise of…?
Yes