The liberal SDP split with the communists, supporting "centrist" Hindenburg in the name of unity.
The communists campaigned on "A vote for Hindenburg is a vote for Hitler is a vote for war"
Hindenburg won the election, getting more votes than either the communist or fascist candidates.
Hindenburg, the liberal candidate, then proceeded to make Hitler the chancellor and staff positions of power with nazis while purging the government of communists.
The nazis then barely had to do anything to assert complete control.
The nazis didn't get in power because communists stayed home, they got into power because the liberals would rather work with fascists than communists.
Those lib kids would be very upset if they could read
The Nazis didn’t get in power because communists stayed home, they got into power because the liberals would rather work with fascists than communists.
Lets not bury the lede. You run weak Democrats, you comprise with fascists (or just do the policies yourself; Biden's border bill, Congressional support for making criticism of Israel a hate crime) : this is the path you put us on.
It looks a lot like in a way History is repeating itself: the Democrat Establishment in the US (who are a hard neoliberals, not lefties) fielded directly and without a Primary a guy like Biden who is less than in his prime and even supports an ethno-Fascist regime commiting Genocide (and, more importantly, is unwilling to walk back on that support even to improve his odds of winning against Trump, which is what we are being told is the most important thing in the World) all of which is making it far more likely that the Fascists will get power.
There are vast contradictions between what we are being told is the danger of Trump getting elected and the DNC and Biden persistently making choices that increase the chances of Trump getting elected and not walking back on those.
Surelly if "Stop Trump" is the most important thing in the World for them, the Democrat Establishment too would be walking towards the wishes of the electorate not just trying to push the electorate to do all the walking towards the wishes of the Democrat Establishment.
Agreed.
We can't say we must do everything to stop Trump and then shrug and say hold your nose and vote for the guy that's polling poorly.
That's not trying everything that's people in power wanting one outcome that are willing to risk everything they say they don't want because the scared masses should hopefully fall in line without even a backup plan for it not working.
This isn't trying and doing everything to stop a fascist dictator taking power this is capitalist conservatives trying to stretch out their win for a little bit longer using what they think is a sure win. This can only ever end poorly even if it's just another 4 years later from now.
the democrat establishment is already getting what they want from voters and the system and they won't get any of the blame should they lose; so they both have no reason to change nor do they have anything to risk by trying something new.
those contradictions you referenced are the centrists version of fox news stoking the culture war, but more vague because they're trying to appeal both both centrists and leftist; that and project 2025 are the talking points that the moderates are parroting to justify against voting progressively, thus proving martin luther king's opinion of the the american moderate is true.
and lets not forget what stopped hitler wasnt electoralism. it was the soviets, and they needed force at that point.
And the Ukrainians, and the Poles, and the French resistance, and the British, and the Americans, and the Canadians, and...
the soviets were the ones to bear the weight of all the casualties. while your heroes were sipping tea waiting for them to be destroyed by the nazis...
the british, really? americans? yall need to open a history book. ever heard of operation paperclip? or how anticommunist most of these were?
Exactly, the country that shared a massive land border with the NAZIs and was a direct target of their aggression suffered many more casualties than the ones what didn't, who'da thunk it? Without the combined efforts of essentially the entire rest of the world, the USSR would have been toast.
yall need some history. the USSR and germany did not share borders until much later, the west was nowhere to be found by the time they reached berlin.
the us mostly really only helped by the end when victory over nazis was already on the horizon.
They didn't share a border until the Soviets and NAZIs jointly invaded their neighbor Poland.
no such thing as "jointly invaded"
Nah they're an .ml user... It's all about soviets. USSR is literal utopia to them and didn't do anything wrong.
Forget that the Nazi efforts were always more focused on the western fronts...
Wowsers, that's horrible! I'll make sure not to vote for Biden if he nominates Trump as his VP.
During Hitlers Ascent to Power, the communist still considered the SPD to be the bigger threat and refused to march with them. And the SPD of the 1930 were by no means "liberals". They were further to the left than any democrat has ever been.
the communist still considered the SPD to be the bigger threat and refused to march with them
...which was confirmed when they agreed with the Nazis... And when they collaborated with the Freikorps to crush, torture, and murder the communists.
And the SPD of the 1930 were by no means "liberals". They were further to the left than any democrat has ever been.
Go ask Rosa Luxembourg, leader of communists in Germany and murdered at 47 at the order of SPD, how progressive and left the SPD was. "Left is when you agree to murder and torture communists". Fucking revisionists man
They agreed with Hitler? They were the only faction voting against him during the Gleichschaltungkrise.
"Left is when you agree tp torture and murder communists". So we both agree that the Stalinist Sovietunion and the KPD, which allied themselves with them arent left?
No, both SPD and KPD were way to the left of all pther political parties and had they banded together, like they did during the Kappputsch, my homecountry wouldnt have been destroyed and 60 Million People would probably still be alive. After every other institution failed Germany, these two failed them in conjunction by not even trying to organize a joined force.
So we both agree that the Stalinist Sovietunion and the KPD, which allied themselves with them arent left?
One country ended up with Nazis. The other ended up defeating the Nazis. I'd say the Bolsheviks did a better job, didn't they? The fact that there was oppression against Mensheviks and SRs in the context of a civil war, doesn't mean they're anticommunists, they didn't quite literally enable the Nazis in order to murder the ones who were more communist than them, but defeat them instead.
Want to find the blame for Nazism in Germany? The fault is primarily of Nazis, and then of Nazi enablers, and then of anti-communist leftists.
The other ended up defeating the Nazis. I’d say the Bolsheviks did a better job, didn’t they?
Uh. The Bolsheviks actively collaborated with Hitler and the Nazis, right up until Operation Barbarossa. The Soviets carved up Poland between themselves and Germany, and tried to invade Finland (Winter War, Continuation War), which is why the Finns ended up allying with the Nazis after Operation Barbarossa.
Got it bro, the actual Nazis aren't the Nazis, neither the ones who eliminated the most radical oppositors to Nazism, but actually the ones that died 26+mn of trying to fight them. God, you anti-communist revisionists are exhausting.
The Bolsheviks actively collaborated with Hitler and the Nazis, right up until Operation Barbarossa
Ugh, not this Nazi talking point again... The Soviet Union pursued for all the 30s a policy called "collective security", in which it desperately tried to achieve mutual-defense pacts with England, France and Poland because the soviets knew that their 15-year-old nation which had only just started industrializing since the end of the feudal and backwards Russian Empire, didn't have a chance alone against the Nazis with their 150 year long history of industry (as would be seen later with the USSR suffering 26+mn deaths during the war, in places like Belarus 1 in 4 people died). The USSR wanted these mutual defense agreements to the point of offering to send 1 million soldiers to France and England if they agreed to mutual defense... which France, England and Poland denied because they thought Nazis would attempt their declared goal of eliminating communisnm and massacring the "slavic untermenschen". After this was denied and it was obvious that the west would rather see the USSR invaded than reach a mutual defense agreement, they did the only possible course of action: delaying the war as much as possible to prepare for it and industrialize a bit more. That's where the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact takes place, not before a decade of exhausting every possible negotiation route with France and England in opposition to Nazism.
The fact that the USSR then proceeded to (rather bloodlessly, around 50k deaths overall, very comparable to the oppression within the USSR itself) invade Poland, has to do with the USSR not trusting the Polish government. Why? In 1917, the Bolshevik revolution drafted an unprecedentedly progressive constitution which granted the right to self-determination and lawful secession to all peoples of the former Russian Empire. That's how many countries such as Finland or Poland suddenly gained independence lawfully and peacefully in a never-before-seen act of respect of the right of self-determination. What did Poland immediately proceed to do? Become fully nationalist, ignore the right to self-determination of other peoples, and invade Ukraine (and later the USSR) in an attempt to gain territories they considered theirs by historical right. When they had conquered a good chunk of modern Ukraine and Belarus, the Polish Government decided it was a good idea to start a war against the USSR, since the USSR was plunged deep into a civil war and didn't have many resources or troops to defend itself, and some conquests and victories could grant them a positive peace agreement which granted the territories the Polish Nationalists considered theirs (while ignoring the right to self-determination that the Bolsheviks had granted them less than two years earlier). Poland was also happy to make peace and appeasement treaties with Nazi Germany as long as they could also get some territorial gains from Czechoslovak land.
Similarly, Finland in 1917 after gaining independence, was plunged into a civil war between communists and whites, which the latter won and proceeded to imprison communists in Finland who had supported the Reds, around 80k of which some 12k died (funny how nobody talks about that). The USSR had reasons to suspect of a possible alliance between the Finnish government and the Nazis, and proceeded to invade Finland. After the failure of the invasion, as you said, Finland joined the Nazis.
Blaming the USSR for entering a non-aggression treaty with the Nazis, when all western nations had done it, and after 10 years of the USSR trying to make mutual defense agreement with Poland, England and France, is at best ignorant, and at worst purposefully misinforming with an agenda. The USSR had reasons to suspect of Poland and Finland (especially given its history of constant betrayals by all European powers since the October Revolution, with 14 countries sending troops to aid the Tsarist loyalists against the Bolsheviks) and, while outright invasions may not be justified, it could all have been prevented if the western powers had actually agreed to fight nazism. It's absolutely nuts to blame the USSR and call them "collaborators with Nazis" given the historical background of the two decades before the war, especially the latter.
rather bloodlessly, around 50k deaths overall,
Wut.
50,000 deaths is 'rather bloodlessly'? And since that's comparable to oppression within the USSR, it's not that bad?
while outright invasions may not be justified,
Correct. That, right there, is the most important point you've made. They collaborated with Nazis to carve up territories, and were then shocked when the Nazis turned on them. As far as the appeasement pacts made with Nazi Germany by France, England, et al., there's very, very good reasons why the Vichy gov't and Quisling are viewed so negatively by everyone that isn't an apologist.
Good job evading the uncomfortable 90% of my comment. Since we're at that point, I will proceed to evade 100% of yours, seeing how you're not interested in discussing actual facts such as the reasons for the USSR to make a non aggression treaty with the Nazis after a decade of systematic rejection of military alliances by Poland, England and France.
Cool. In this comparison, none of that matters and the Tweet has a completely valid point.
Unless you suspect Biden will be appointing Trump in his cabinet if he wins?
We've been saying from day one, that if Biden doesn't move to the left and use every tool at his disposal to improve people's material conditions, Trump's going to win in 2024.
Biden didn't just not go left, he tried to outflank the republicans from the right by facilitating genocide, ending covid protections, and passing the most draconian border bill since like the 40s.
This is the closest thing he could have done to handing Trump the presidency, short of appointing him VP and stepping down.
Biden didn't just not go left, he tried to outflank the republicans from the right by facilitating genocide, ending covid protections, and passing the most draconian border bill since like the 40s.
This is one of the worst examples of confirmation bias I have ever seen. The Biden Administration's entire record is out there for you to peruse, and you pick 3 things out of hundreds, possibly thousands, that you think justify your comparison.
Outflanking the rights is a bad decision, because you put their extreme positions into mainstream.
he tried to outflank the republicans from the right
You really expect to be taken seriously saying some idiotic shit like this?
Your hyperbole is over the top. Trump’s Title 42 and Muslim ban were far worse.
POTUS has no reasonable control over grocery store prices, which is the part of the economy everyone is most concerned with. Last time an Executive Order was used to price fix the food industry, it blew up in Nixon’s face. Supply chain constraints were industry wide, and when the order expired, prices went up far past standard inflation. The other big concern is housing, which could be addressed with legislation if Democrats had congressional majority.
I completely agree about support of Israel. The only comparison is knowing Trump will be worse for Palestinians. It’s terrible to reconcile, but those are the options.
Abstaining isn’t voting for Trump, it’s refusing to stand in his way.
Trump’s Title 42 and Muslim ban were far worse.
Biden waited 3.5 years to end title 42 and tried to close the border. He has deported more people than Trump.
POTUS has no reasonable control over grocery store prices
He literally does though. But there's a million other things he could have done when he had control. Instead we just get excuses about how powerless the party controlling both houses and the presidency was because of Manchin or the parliamentarian or the SCOTUS or some rules the dems set for themselves or norms or whatever.
There's no point in quibbling about whether Biden was less bad than trump, these actions decrease how many people will vote for him. Implementing policy that makes you lose the election is refusing to stand in republican's way.
Wrong.
Biden ended the Muslim Ban on Jan 21, 2021, the day after he was inaugurated.
Nobody is talking about the Muslim ban, we're talking about the more recent attempt to close the mexican border.
But it's irrelevant, you're still missing the point.
My point is that Biden's unpopular actions decrease how many people will vote for him. This is how Biden ensures Trump will come to power.
Did you not read the second half of my comment? He ended Title 42 a year and a half after taking office. Federal judges stopped it for a year.
You wrote three and a half years.
You fabricate information in your comments often. I will always call out misinformation.
Cite your sources and stop with the lies.
Incidentally, you quoted my point about the Muslim ban in your previous comment. So yeah, we were certainly talking about it.
Biden has done plenty of good where Trump did nothing or actively worsened things for the working class, minorities, and the planet. You only select Biden’s worst policies to define his presidency.
It doesn't matter if his excuse was some court he can just ignore and face no consequences asked him to keep it in place or if did it on a whim, he had the power to change it, he didn't use it. It was in place for like 3 and a half years.
You're not calling out misinformation, you're quibbling.
You inflated his inaction on Title 42 by two years. Quibbling my ass. I’m calling you a liar. This is not the first time I’ve called you out on false information.
Something tells me it won’t be the last.
He took an action that took 3 years to complete instead of ending it on day one and telling the courts to fuck off.
That's keeping it in place for 3 years.
This isn't misinformation, this is you being intentionally dense.
POTUS is the head of the Executive Branch. He has no control over the Judicial Branch other than appointing judges in the event of vacancy.
Telling them to “fuck off” is meaningless nonsense.
Also, it still wasn’t three years. From inauguration in January of 2021 to May of 2022. You seem to really want to be right. You’d probably have more success if you cited accurate information.
You shouldn't engage with this guy. Its always a bait and switch/ false premise/ straw man with this guy.
You make a point about an actual bill (the mexican border bill), he makes it about trump and a muslim ban.
Its always in bad faith. Its a condition of blue MAGA.
Read the thread you’re so confident in condemning.
I cited my statements while your friend here repeatedly made false claims.
The Mexican Border bill you’re referring to is an Executive Order, not congressional legislation. Trump’s border Executive Order was the Muslim ban. Neither of which required congressional approval, and therefore are directly equatable.
Maybe you two should get a place together in misinformation land.
Just downvote and move along.
Blue fash is still fash. They aren't an allie.
In 2016 I voted for Bernie in the primary, and Hillary in the election.
Using my civic duty to compromise for the lesser of two evils does not make me a fascist.
Name calling is unproductive and childish. Have a conversation or find someone else to use as your stepladder to superiority.
That’s true of the post-pandemic food industry prices for sure. That description was regarding the failure of Nixon’s attempt to price fix with an Executive Order.
Oh sorry I was clearly not paying much attention to what I was reading. Thanks for the gentle correction.
No problem. Thank you for citing sources in your comment. I always appreciate substantiation in this world of misinformation.
If you look at many people’s material conditions during Trump and during Biden, they haven’t gotten better. You can say whatever you want about Biden’s policies, his cabinet appointments, and how much Democrats have done when they hold power, but at the end of the day it hasn’t changed most folks’ lives one bit. It might be good metric-wise, but until folks feel like they’re better off it doesn’t matter.
Also, it’s hilarious to me how much shit Republicans seem to get done even when they don’t hold the House, Senate, and White House together, but the minute Republicans get one of those, suddenly it’s “oh shit Democrats can’t do anything”. It’s like Republicans are playing with nukes and Democrats are showing up with rubber band guns.
And no, I won’t be voting for Biden, I’ll be voting third party. And I know, you think “a vote for a third party is a vote for Trump”, but I don’t give a shit. I’ve been seeing this same “at least I’m not…” shit for 25 years and watching our country be sold to the highest bidder under both parties. At this point, if we can’t figure out shit out, we deserve to be razed to the ground.
Also, Hitler had to declare a state if emergency to gain the absolute power the Supreme Court has just handed to the US president.
Suffice it to say, something lile this is impossible now in Germany. The justices of our highest court, the Bindesverfassungsgericht, can only hold the job for 12 years and can be no older than 68. They are also always equally voted in by two different branches of the government and need a two thirds majority for any decision.
Our democracy isn't without faults, but this is probably our strongest bulwark against another descent into facsism.
Let's hope it holds up against the AFD
it looks like it isn’t holding up? How are they allowed to still campaign?
Because the Verfassungsschutz sucks, but that's not the fault of the Bundesverfassungsgericht.
And they repeatedly declared laws of the government unconstitutional, not matter which parties were in the coalition at the moment.
They're concealing their true nature, and get a bunch of naïve moderates to clean their image. Jobbik did it in Hungary first, it even lead to the radicals splitting out the party under Mi Hazánk Mozgalom (Our Homeland Movement - technically a satellite party and the "bad cops" of Fidesz), and the moderates rebranding as more boring conservatives. Fidesz learned this tactic, and used it to make Trianon Revisionism seem like a "common cause". Gamergate also did it the first round, the second round was just a literal reaction against any kind of inclusivity. The republicans are also doing it of course: Their average voter isn't as evil as it seems, they're just the naïve loyal voters, who think even if things go bad, they can just be removed from legislation. Which is true, but it will be hard if democracy is dismantled like in Hungary, and even then you can't unlegislate ruined lives, the dead from their graves, the lost years people had to endure because of bad laws and no worker's protections.
I think Trump will declare a state of emergency as soon as people will riot against his unjust laws. Project 2025 has something about deploying the military against the population to force through deeply unpopular laws.
Hitler was appointed chancellor by Hindenburg. He wasn't voted in by the people.
Even setting aside the bit of history where the SDP party rallied around Hindenburg because of their deep and abiding fear of the Evil Russian Backed KDP party (god damn, everything old really is new again), there were three different elections from July of '32 to March of '33. The Nazis took 37% of the seats in July, dipped down to 32% in November, and then jumped to 43% the following March.
And then, what really kicked off martial law was the Reichstagg fire, which was blamed on Tankie Antifa Far-Left Communists and used to justify a Nazi-lead state of martial law. Liberals, Conservatives, and Fascists all united under a single banner in their staunch hatred of German Communism.
This was decades after German military police and Freikorps paramilitary groups under Hindenburg crushed the Spartacus League during the 1919 strike wave. The leaders of the movement - Rosa Luxemburg, Karl Liebknecht, and Franz Mehring - were executed by the police and the organizations disbanded under threat of further imprisonment/execution.
This, in comparison to the Beer Hall Pustch four years later, in which Hitler's band of low-ranking military officers were tossed in the drunk tank for nine months, before returning to politics and rapidly climbing the ranks on the basis that he'd been martyred by (((bad Germans))) who secretly controlled the government.
Gotta wonder how this compares to the 2014 BLM protests, the subsequent police crackdown, and then the string of BLM leadership "suicides" where members of the movement shot themselves in the head right before being incinerated in their cars. Or the widespread bipartisan/corporate efforts to suppress labor activism in the rail, shipping, and Amazon distribution centers, the automotive industry, and the Starbucks-centric food service sectors.
Or the feeble efforts by US government officials to arrest/convict J6ers, the hand-slap sentencing of Alex Jones and Steve Bannon, and the stubborn refusal to federally prosecute Donald Trump.
Oh well, anyways!
Yeah we have a lot more in common with pre third Reich Germany than people want to talk about and it's not just a voting for a crazy shouting lunatic thats making the comparison so eerily similar.
The staunch refusal to try and go left and actually make things better and give people to rally behind is gonna do a lot of the heavy lifting of moving people to the right and it's not appreciated or understood by the people who make the memes about voting for Biden regardless of anything.
That does depend on who is making those memes. The bad faith propaganda meant to further divide the population targets all sides of all issues and it's another very divisive issue. Any time I see someone making what should be a good point but in a way that will instead increase resistance, I suspect that's what's going on. It's not a certain way to determine if that's happening; anyone who has read How to Win Friends and Influence People knows that our instincts about persuasion are bad even before any bad faith is involved.
Shit, the Freikorps immediately turned around after murdering the Spartacus League and overthrew the SPD government who sent them out. The Kapp Putsch. And the SPD compromised with them.
I, personally, have learned from history, which is why I'll be voting PSL in the upcoming election.
There is a good reason why it starts with "first they came for the communists"
2014 BLM protests? You're almost a decade early there
Are we going to ignore the Ferguson protests after the police slaying of Michael Brown?
because of their deep and abiding fear of the Evil Russian Backed KDP party (god damn, everything old really is new again)
You missed the moment where NSDAP and German communists kinda had intersecting constituencies, as in "angry young people with nothing good to do".
Many stormtroopers were members of both at different points of their, eh, path.
And then, what really kicked off martial law was the Reichstagg fire,
Which was almost certainly a false flag operation by Nazis.
Liberals, Conservatives, and Fascists all united under a single banner in their staunch hatred of German Communism.
Such parallels always suck. They didn't really have liberals in the Weimar republic. It was all conservatives, monarchists, nationalists, and some fishy social-democrats. And it was kinda authoritarian at every point.
This was decades after German military police and Freikorps paramilitary groups under Hindenburg crushed the Spartacus League during the 1919 strike wave. The leaders of the movement - Rosa Luxemburg, Karl Liebknecht, and Franz Mehring - were executed by the police and the organizations disbanded under threat of further imprisonment/execution.
Yep. You might consider that such a republic shouldn't be so readily compared to the US.
I'm not saying future is cool.
We got monarchists. We got nationalists. We got conservatives. And most USians hate communism as an internalized educational message become reflex. We are not that far apart chronologically, either.
And not to mention the bunds and many American industrialists were very horny for Hitler not all that long ago. Those families didn't go anywhere.
This may happen, but not the same way, all I can say.
Like losing the popular vote.
The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. — Plato
Imagine having a political opponent you consider equal to Hitler and choosing Joe Biden as the candidate you run against him.
And after the debate you have to wonder who you're really voting for. I don't believe he's really calling the shots. If it's Obama or something okay, but let's be honest.
Idiotic conspiracy theories like this is troll shit.
I don't believe you are not an idiot. Let's be honest.
You really think he's in control? He looks like he can't control his bowels.
The only one who can't control their bowels is diaper don.
I'm not a fan of Trump, and many very mentally sharp people have issues with bodily functions - that's often part of life and I apologize for using it as a slur.
I still think Biden is looking unfit to be one of the top world leaders for the next 4 1/2 years.
And after the debate you have to wonder who you’re really voting for.
The one who doesn't pledge to be a dictator.
Next you’ll be telling us about “big Mike”, right, Chuddy?
Since this is posted on a shitpost community, I'll just assume it's not supposed to be taken seriously.
Likely testing waters to see if it would land.
We already had trump and biden, and country has been in structural decline since at least 2008.
It doesn't matter who is the next president since there is zero indication current policy will be adjusted in any meaningful way to to provide any relief for working people.
Beatings will continue until morale improves.
Income tax sunset from trump corpo tax cuts coupled with inflation really pinching people this year. But fake news and our dear leaders can't figure why z peasants are bitching since inflation is "down"
there is zero indication current policy will be adjusted in any meaningful way to to provide any relief for working people.
Just a reminder that Biden has been working overtime to provide student debt relief the entire time he's been in office. Republicans have been working overtime to block it.
Student debt shouldn't even exist. We need more education, not less.
Using existing means to cancel fraudulent loans for non accredited schools that went under or people who were already supposed to have their loans forgiven by standing law but hadn't because people like literally Joe Biden have given the keys to the kingdom to the business that want to make money more and have been going unpunished for screwing over the general populace.
They aren't real actually helpful policies it's minor enforcement of things that he and others of the major parties have ignored being broken for the bank accounts of their donors.
Which is not an adjustment in policy in any meaningful way.
If regulation was being drawn up to control pricing of higher education, then we could talk.
Student debt relief without a reduction in prices is just funneling money to colleges with extra steps. It is an important step, Biden should be doing it, but it needs to be accompanied by serious consumer protections and price controls applied to colleges.
Sure, college education should just be a part of the regular public education system like it is in Europe. More education is a boon for the individual, society, and the economy.
That would be good, private colleges could still exist but they'd have to compete with free college so the prices would have to come down and the value come up, a win for the consumer either way. It would be expensive but an important investment in our future.
Biden has been working overtime to provide student debt relief the entire time he’s been in office
Biden could sign an executive order right now forgiving all government-backed student loans. He doesn't need to work overtime on this, he could literally hand-write it and sign it in like five minutes.
I believe he actually did a blanket forgiveness, and the conservative majority of the Supreme Court struck it down.
Good for 100k people... Thanks daddy
For the remainder: beatings will continue until morale improves.
Where are you getting 100k? 8 million so far, close to 45 have debt.
what program are walking here about?
4 downvotws but nobody can name it huh
“dOnT cArE, nOt VoTiNg”
-hexbear
So weird to think that that all went down in 14 years. 2010 doesn't seem that long ago.
The proper marker is 2008... It has been going down hill and fast.
Boomers created this paradise for us.
Yeah... I mean.. bad decisions to "fix" the country post crash followed by the absolutely nauseating problematic laws and decisions since, like citizens united and eased FTC regulations.
And all that before I was even close to being able to vote.
But here we have the boomers and silent generation demanding they know best and will never die and their kids in Gen X just sitting back and trying to make their money at the expense of generations after claiming they "feel sorry" for us without even lifting a finger to help...
Honestly fuck a few generations even though it doesn't help against the real issue of the rich but there was a lot of adults in the room ignoring it because they still felt comfortable well past the signs.
Boomers sold out their kids and country for macmansions and 401ks (most of them did not even get either) by providing political cover for the regime looting the country and fucking the working people.
It is a really disgusting set up the more you learn the mechanics, just getting fucked at every turn.
The fuckening is systemic and premeditated.
They just needed a little bit more. One more sweet hit of that cash before they will get out of the way. And it's not like they are doing anything young people wouldn't do and they will live long enough to get their win eventually. /S
Man the lead levels in their corpses are probably gonna poison the soil for generations (I'm hoping it was lead and not just societal selfishness)
It think the lead theory is a cope...
Hard to admit to yourself that entire society is like this on purpose lol
It didn't just take "Hitler's death" for Germans to be able to vote again. It wasn't a case of "oh look, he's dead, now we can go back to democracy". It took over a decade of political terror and violence, a devastating world war, and one of the most organised campaigns of mass murder and genocide in history.
Yeah, and he went away not because they voted him out but thanks to Soviet weapons.
Who allied up with the Nazis to invade Poland?
IBM and Standard Oil
Soviets were the only ones who truly supported the Spanish democracy against the fascist. Every other country, including Poland, turned their back to us while the Luffwaffle was bombing our citizens.
Soviets were the only ones who truly supported the Spanish democracy against the fascist.
Curious that their backstabbing the Spanish republicans was instrumental in losing the Spanish Civil War for the republican side. Strange kind of support.
What kind of propaganda are you reading in which sending weapons, planes and officers (while all the other countries did NOTHING) is backstabbing.
Spain democracy lost because the allied powers did not care about us the same way the cared about Poland.
You're on Divide By Zero, you should be fucking familiar with how they fucked the anarchists and the Trots, and that most of their 'aid' was purchased, not given.
I'm friends with everyone leftist, even if they hate each other. I can feel comfortable among anarchist, tankies, socdems, new age leftists, reformist, etc. Because I know what our common objective is and I just can't care about the subtle differences. So I know the anarchist side of the story as well as I know the tankie side.
Being myself an active member of the social movement in my country and actually having watched modern day anarchist working with modern day communists I can say without any doubts that no version is true. Probably both starting arguing about stupid shit, and actual personal problems disguised as political problems, when they should had focused on the real enemy. But anyway I'm thankful for ALL who fought against fascism in Spain, anarchist, communist, republicans... I thank the international brigades, I thank orwell and I thank the soviets and stalinist. They all put their lives on line to stop fascism.
I just despise such an unproductive and harmful division of the left for shit that just does not matter when the true enemy is so big. And sometimes I just see a lust for internal division and eternal losing in such behavior. I don't know how some leftists have energy left to hate each other after they should had used that energy to fight the true enemy, capitalism and fascism. And I say this for any anarchist who hates tankies and any tankie who hates anarchists. You are not enemies, the enemy is in other direction.
Because I know what our common objective is and I just can’t care about the subtle differences.
Even when those 'subtle differences' result in being backstabbed and sold out and the entire cause being lost against a fascist enemy, great. Subtle little differences, like "We need to purge the anarchists and Trots" should be met with "We need complete and total cooperation with the people who want to purge us 😊"
The true meaning of a united front, huh?
As I said I have actually worked a lot in environments with a diverse leftist spectrum.
And in my experience backstabbing usually goes both ways and is a result of the previous hate (and a lot of the time because personal non political issues) not the other way around.
And yes. The only wins I've seen is when there have been total cooperation. Division is always the prelude of defeat.
And be ensure that I would be saying exactly the same words to any tankie who talks about "purging any leftist" no matter what their ridiculous arguments are for such a premise. I've heard it all and it is often just as untrue.
And American weapons. Let's not pretend that the USSR fought alone.
And Brittish weapons
and my axe!
And Fremch razor
Land Lease is just a western conspiracy!
It's Lend-Lease...
Probably more accurate to say American trucks and raw materials, but yes.
They did do 80% of the fighting, though. So lets not give America too much credit.
They did 80% of the dying, the current Ukraine war should be evidence that Russia's force multiplier is fractional
And only stole most of east Germany's infrastructure.
East Germany paid war reparations to the Soviets while rebuilding itself into an industrial powerhouse - the people who "stole most of East Germany's infrastructure" were the West German capitalists after reunification, when the whole region was forcibly de-industrialized and left a shadow of its former self that still hasn't fully recovered over thirty years later.
Source?
I read Stasi State or Socialist Paradise some years ago, I recommend it for anyone interested in a history of East Germany that isn't written by West German propagandists.
As did everyone. There's no study showing that the amount of rapes per soldier by the soviets is higher than that of other nations.
Oh fuuuuck of. There are books based on actual KGB archives that were opened up. Rape of Berlin is well described. There are books about the actual bordelos attached to armies. Western armies. Soviet officers had army wives. Apparently they still do.
There are countless accounts of people prefering Nazi soldiers to soviets.
It is THE reason central and easter Europe hates russia.
No data on rapes my ass. But pleeenty of data that soviets single handedly saved the world from Nazis.
Get a grasp.
Wow, so the released KGB archives show the tapes. I wonder what would happen if the Americans or the English did that too!
Hatred of Russians by eastern Europeans is due to 30+ years of anti-communist propaganda. The fact that poles hate the USSR which liberated more than the very Nazis who genocided millions of them, shows this. And it wasn't the case 40 years ago.
Polls in France after WW2 showed 70%+ of people saying it was the USSR who saved them from Nazism. Nowadays, it's 70% Americans. That's what Hollywood and propaganda do.
Your link shows nothing. And no. Not at all propaganda. As a Polish citizen, fuck you. The entirety of my family hates the USSR. Including those who were alive for WW2. No propaganda about it.
Their link shows some infographic in french, for me. I have reposted it.
Interesting. Look's like the "old.reddit" plugin breaks that link. Weird that they have to source a reddit thread rather than the actual study. Red flag for sure that they're full of shit. https://www.ifop.com/publication/la-nation-qui-a-le-plus-contribue-a-la-defaite-de-lallemagne/
Now is that graph valid... well looking at the "study report"... It's like 3 pages of content that doesn't actually outline much of anything and conflates with itself. The report says it was 1200 people 18 and older... the website says sample size of 995 people. The study report says 1200 people sample for the 2015 figures, except it was actually taken in may 2014. And no figures about how many people in the previous years. So I would worry about how "valid" this is to begin with. But let's look at the content on the original page.
The study even cites the reason this "perception" could have been a thing... (translated, possibly poorly. Check yourself! But my high school french skills only go so far).
Virginie Sansico, a historian specializing in World War II, sees these results as a certain logic: “Under De Gaulle, who was anti-Atlanticist, one was not quick to maintain the memory of the Landing. Moreover, the Communist Party has long helped to value the Soviets, when it had a strong influence. The first State-backed landing commemorations took place only in 1984, organized by Mitterrand: they mark a break in public opinion.”
“In Western Europe, the Allied Landing was crucial, but in the eastern countries, Stalin’s army still played a great deal behind.”
So actually it looks like Russia propaganda in the 1940s thanks to De Gualle's personal opinions on the matter.
So I'm going to go with, not only does that graph itself mean nothing in this conversation, but the story behind it actually damns the argument they're trying to make, especially since the matter is well known https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01402390.2016.1220367.
No, you see, your grandparents did not encounter both Nazis and soviets. Your parents did not live under communist rule. And most of all you cannot even pin point results of current day ramifications of: 1. Occupation period, 2. Communism.
Totally, propaganda. It is sooo good that they even brainwashed your parents into thinking like they lived in bad communist state. It is so good it feels like there is a rift between generations.
Totally. And would not you know, they also did that in the Baltics and Czech.
Ah yes I forget, my family's lived experience isn't real because some jerkwad on lemmy said so. The source of a removed comment on reddit proved otherwise! You've converted me, the stories, written history, oral stories that I've recorded for my own records/kids/history must all be wrong. Literal hours of first hand accounts and hundreds of pages of documented familial history
must be tainted and not an accurate account of the glorious USSR reign. Fuck... I better delete my grandfathers phone number. It must be getting answered by some deepfake AI voice...
I can see it in my browser and my phone, but sure. It's a poll showing how in 1945, 55% of French people claimed the USSR freed them from Nazism. In 2015 it's 25%. That's exactly propaganda.
When you are ready to spend 10% of the time you spend shitting on communism and the USSR, actually shitting on the Nazism which carried out actual genocide in your country, I'll be ready to talk with you. I'm sorry that the Polish foundational myth is based on Russophobia and anti-communism, it's impossible to have meaningful discussions of 20th century socialism with most polish people.
feel free to actually address it at your leisure. But you've shown that you're crazy anyway. So I don't think anyone has high hopes for you.
I shit on both Nazis and Russia. Both then and now.
I used that link not from a Reddit thread, I just know the graph and the easiest way for me to find it was to google-image-search it, and it's the first link that I could copy-paste, since it's more productive imo to link a graph than an entire study, since it's a comment section and not a scientific article.
So basically, your whole argument is, "the graph is kinda sus and I don't trust the source, probably russian propaganda, I hate Russia and I hate Nazis". Not the strongest rebuttal in my opinion.
Regardless. Notice how your phrase isn't "I hate Nazis and I hate the USSR and I hate the modern Russian government". You can make the distinction between Germany and Nazis, but you can't make the distinction between the Russian governments at different times and the nation as a whole. This proves further my point that your hatred is more Russophobia than actual historical criticism of the actions of governments.
Suddenly you only go as far back as WW2, not to the German-occupied regions of Poland before and during WW1. We forget about those because they weren't Russian, don't we? Those pesky friendly Germans in western Poland, who cares, nothing happened before Nazism, the important thing are the evil Russians. But of course we remember the Poland under the Russian Empire! Because that actually aligns with the contemporary Polish foundational myth!
Never mind that the Bolsheviks granted Poland the legal right to secede in 1917 immediately after the October revolution, and Poland used that power to immediately proceed to invade the similarly recently independent Ukraine and even some soviet lands because of nationalist conceptions of historical borders. It's somehow all the fault of Russians after all, isn't it? Much better to forbid communist parties in Poland while you have literal Nazis in parliament using fire extinguishers against Jewish symbols!
So basically, your whole argument is, “the graph is kinda sus and I don’t trust the source, probably russian propaganda, I hate Russia and I hate Nazis”. Not the strongest rebuttal in my opinion.
No... and not even close. The graph led me to the study which has obvious flaws... But even IGNORING Those flaws... they themselves put up an argument of why the sentiment could have been this way... and it was because of the French leadership.
but you can’t make the distinction between the Russian governments at different times and the nation as a whole.
Nope, I can make that distinction. The difference here is that both in the past and present they're monsters. During Communism they shit on Poland, and now they threaten Ukraine... our neighbors. I don't NEED to make the distinction because it's both cases. Where as with Gemany I have to make the distinction as they're not currently ruled by the Nazi party.
Suddenly you only go as far back as WW2
No... That's the context of this thread. I kept with the context. The fact that you have to keep shifting goal-posts and cannot continue the discussion under the same pretenses is a huge red flag.
Never mind that the Bolsheviks granted Poland the legal right to secede in 1917 immediately after the October revolution
So in 1945... what happened to Poland... since they legally succeeded from the USSR they were a free country again right?
https://archive.org/details/polandsholocaust00piot/page/88/mode/2up
Or did Russia actually completely fuck Poland (again) by undermining it's legitimacy? Removing all previous influences and pulled them into the Soviet Union. Going so far as to kill thousands for no fucking reason other than they weren't communist.
It’s somehow all the fault of Russians after all, isn’t it?
Nah, that just historic revisionism that pro-Russian people spout all the time. You seem to love changing time-frames all the time. So here... let's end this stupidity.
Which time do you want to talk about how Russia tried to fuck Poland? I've traced my roots back to the 1500s... I can possibly talk about a number of these wars.
But it's a general trend that Russia goes out of it's way to Fuck the Polish people. Yet somehow this is Russophobia! Yeah get out of here.
We do know however that the Red Army had the most investigations of and prosecutions of rapists, so it's a bit of a "Swedish rape crisis" problem where they look worse on paper than other countries simply because their record keeping of the crime in question is better.
Oh, boy. Good that soviets took such good care of recording rapes. Unlike bad western nazies. White washing soviet rapes with statistics.
There is also one more reason. soviets had no bordelos for the regular army. Only officers had army wives. It is a known fact. So what would regular grunts would do is rape anything they find.
But probably western propaganda. Because in communism, everyone is equal, and everything belongs to everyone.
Like in current day russia.
I will let you know that you constantly excuse and support ultracapitalist nazi regimes. That makes you a nazi.
Tell me one I'm defending
I also only rape within the average of my demographic
What's your point? Every rape is to be condemned and prosecuted. What isn't fair is making up claims about the amount of rapes by a certain demographic and not backing that up with extensive evidence. That exactly what racist people do against immigrants, and that's what Nazis did against soviets.
Prosecuted ? Yes, war, famously rule-of-law kind of situation...
The first NSDAP government came into being in 1930, in Thuringia. It toppled a left-wing government with a broad alliance of liberals, conservatives and right-wing extremists. Today, a center-left government is still in power in Thuringia, but in a tolerated minority government that is dependent on the votes of the other parties. In a few months, it will most likely be voted out by another one. The liberal, conservative and far-right parties are already using their majority to jointly push through laws against the government. An extreme right-wing party will probably become the strongest force and as such will be able to do a lot of damage, even without government participation.
There are already areas where only right-wing candidates are running and right-wing conservatives are the most left-wing option.
Perhaps history will repeat itself this year.
If they're trying to convince Republicans to vote against Trump then they've chosen the wrong argument.
They probably want non voters to vote.
That's just a bit over 3 legislative periods. Hardly enough for anything significant to happen.
Edit: Just two hours passed and Poe's Law struck again.
How long until Coles Law?
(I am very hungry)
Accompanied by J Law*?
*Either him or her, I don't mind both.
This implies that people care, which might not be true...
What do you expect, people think Hitler was good for most Germans and restored economy and made trains run on time, and the defeat part oh well. Because that's what movies show. And that's because for commies Hitler was just a variation of the west, probably less capricious, while for the west Hitler was bad, but good against commies. So both would show Nazis as being better than their opponent.
He wasn't even good for the German economy though, the Nazis produces a large GDP growth through massive military spending, they bankrupted the country well before the war was over, and had they won the war, the German economy would have crashed immediately.
They've also ran a few state-level scams and Ponzi schemes to have the funds for that military and other spending.
Their business model was - step 1, cheat to have money, step 2, use money to rearm, step 3, conquer and loot, thus get funds that way, step 4 probably would be to force some peace, then rearm, then rinse and repeat, but they didn't manage to capture a few strategic areas they needed in time. So they had fuel shortages, food shortages, and ultimately lost.
Their system also only ran as far as it did because of the so called Mefo-bills
These fit under "state-level scams".
EDIT: Still, while I wasn't going to compliment them or something, it can be a valid strategy for survival to use anything to accumulate some operational power ; I can see a few nations (not all of them have recognized states) on the map for which it may be necessary to survive in the following decade. But Nazis didn't have to take such risks, it was ideological for them that theft and robbery are better than honest work.
There was no way Germany could have "won" anyway, unless it resulted in literally conquering the entire world. They were in a state of constant "mission creep" (to use a modern term). Early it was "retake the land we lost in the first war", then it was "Lebensraum im Osten", then Africa, the entire Soviet Union, etc.
Wtf I wrote in the end...
I’m voting for Joe!
I'm voting for Not Trump!
I'm voting for Joe and against Trump.
So brave
I'm not sure what point this snark is supposed to be making, but okay.
So just 14 years, a world war, a holocaust, and an aftermath which still leads to new wars until today?
Yeah I think I’ll just be watching a couple of Netflix documentaries on Nov. 5th. Those are crazy, right?
When the Nazi Party won several municipal, state and national elections in between 1930 and 1932, Adenauer, a strong opponent of Adolf Hitler and the Nazis, still believed that improvements in the national economy would make his strategy work: ignore the Nazis and concentrate on the Communist threat. He thought that based on election returns, the Nazis should become part of the Prussian and Reich governments, even when he was already the target of intense personal attacks. Political maneuverings around the ageing President Hindenburg then brought the Nazis to power on 30 January 1933.
By early February, Adenauer finally realized the futility of all discussions and any attempts at compromise with the Nazis. Cologne's city council and the Prussian parliament had been dissolved; on 4 April 1933, he was officially dismissed as mayor and his bank accounts were frozen. "He had no money, no home and no job." After arranging for the safety of his family, he appealed to the abbot of the Benedictine monastery at Maria Laach for a stay of several months. According to Albert Speer in his book Spandau: The Secret Diaries, Hitler expressed admiration for Adenauer, noting his civic projects, the building of a road circling the city as a bypass, and a "green belt" of parks. However, both Hitler and Speer concluded that Adenauer's political views and principles made it impossible for him to play any role in Nazi Germany.
Adenauer was imprisoned for two days after the Night of the Long Knives on 30 June 1934; however, on 10 August 1934, maneuvering for his pension, he wrote a ten-page letter to Hermann Göring, the Prussian interior minister. He stated that as Mayor he had violated Prussian laws in order to allow Nazi events in public buildings and Nazi flags to be flown from city flagpoles, and that in 1932 he had declared publicly that the Nazis should join the Reich government in a leading role.[24][25] At the end of 1932, Adenauer had indeed demanded a joint government by his Zentrum party and the Nazis for Prussia
What a cool dude. Glad this guy was able to get back in charge of the German government in 1949, because his views were so incredibly normal and good and definitely not what might enable fascism to take root a second time.
In a speech on 20 September 1949, Adenauer denounced the entire denazification process pursued by the Allied military governments, announcing in the same speech that he was planning to bring in an amnesty law for the Nazi war criminals and he planned to apply to "the High Commissioners for a corresponding amnesty for punishments imposed by the Allied military courts"
Incredible leadership. Fantastic. Awesome. Love it.
The problem with the left everywhere is they don't have the balls to actually take action. They all talk about tolerance and how dialogue should make people change and be the politicians language.
No. Certain things shouldn't be tolerated. Fascism and nazism are two of those. Democracy is above anything else. If a subject is trying to undermine democracy or the institutions protecting it, they should be considered a national threat and dealt with accordingly.
The problem is that the left is afraid of being seen as "authoritarian" so when a fascist comes and openly says they want to fuck democracy until it becomes a dictatorship, leftists just say "hey now, let's sit down and talk".
No, my dude, we don't "sit down and talk" with a fascist. We punch them in the face and tell them "fuck you, if you want to be a dictator, you're a threat for our country and will be dealt with as a terrorist".
80 years ago, we argued with Nazis by shooting them. We forgot and now we're having them in our governments again.
dont conflate liberals with leftists
Yeah -- has the commenter above seen literally any civil war ever? It's the leftists that show up
The problem with the left everywhere is they don't have the balls to actually take action
Wait, I thought the problem is that the communists are oppressive tankies. What's the conclusion then, the left goes too far or it doesn't go far enough?
They all talk about tolerance and how dialogue should make people change and be the politicians language. No. Certain things shouldn't be tolerated. Fascism and nazism are two of those
Please tell me, which ideology do the famous and vilified "antifa", the ones who actually go and punch Nazis, espouse? Are they lukewarm Dems, are they republicans? Or are they actual leftists, both anarchists and communists?
The problem is that the left is afraid of being seen as "authoritarian" so when a fascist comes and openly says they want to fuck democracy until it becomes a dictatorship, leftists just say "hey now, let's sit down and talk".
This is true in some cases, not in others. You can argue this is true for Salvador Allende in Chile, you can maybe even argue for pre-spanish civil war Second Republic, but you can't argue this about Maoists or Marxist-Leninists. Those are as far to the left as it gets, isn't it?
Maybe the problem isn't with "the left not being active enough", but with democrats in the US and socialdemocrats in Europe co-opting the left thanks to the power of mass media? Maybe the problem is the century of anti-communist propaganda that we've suffered?
The Democratic platform if they actually acted to stop the rise of fascism and codified basic human rights:
the page is blank
Who's Hitler lol no cap fr fr deadass tho
Jenkins' brother.
Bro, I can't believe how that happened. They erased Jenkins from the timeline and somehow history was completely unaffected, because his brother became Fuhrer. Like what the shit
Leroy is my cuzin
Junkers, dive bombing facts
Just a casual grasp of historical events and a critical phase of post-war and interwar politics and economies of Europe.
There's a lesson there!
Something about a Genocide and never again...
Do you mean the Germans should have voted for Hitler harder OP?
They had better turn out in that electron than the US did in 2020, by 20%, and the Nazi party won a decisive victory. This meme doesn't check out.
Ah yes, another fantastic reason to vote for Claudia De la Cruz in this upcoming election.
The Germans in 1932 all voted for the "realistic" liberal candidate, Hindenberg, and he went ahead and appointed Hitler as chancellor anyway. The only option to prevent the Nazis from rising to power was the communists, which is of course why the Nazis killed all the communists the first chance they got (with the help of the social democrats - don't trust the squad is what I'm saying).
Are you saying Biden will make Trump president?
Since Biden has done nothing to curb the radical conservative takeover of the Supreme Court, he doesn't have to. The GOP has all the undemocratic institutional power they could ever ask for.
Ah yes, another fantastic reason to vote for Claudia De la Cruz in this upcoming election. The Germans in 1932 all voted for the “realistic” liberal candidate, Hindenberg, and he went ahead and appointed Hitler as chancellor anyway. The only option to prevent the Nazis from rising to power was the communists, which is of course why the Nazis killed all the communists the first chance they got (with the help of the social democrats - don’t trust the squad is what I’m saying).
Since Biden has done nothing to curb the radical conservative takeover of the Supreme Court, he doesn’t have to. The GOP has all the undemocratic institutional power they could ever ask for.
voting for liberals to keep the fascists out doesn't work
our current system has already shown the tendency for liberals to let fascists into prominent positions of power
in the historical example, the Germans could have saved their country by voting for communists, therefore I advocate voting for communists in the present day
is that simple enough for you to understand?
Will also be voting for her, insane how many people think voting for a genocide enabler is a perfectly reasonable thing
There is no escape because Bourgeois representative “democracy” is a lie
Any look at Germany now….
Currently still dealing with Nazis organizing into a major political party.
Shitshow again, and extremely dangerous. Three eastern states are voting this year and the new Nazis are all on top in the polls.
Historical fact: Thüringen was the first state voting for the Nazis, 100 years ago. And they consider to do it again.
tf do you mean?
I took a nap earlier and woke up wondering what year it was 😵💫
Libs trying to teach history before learning it themselves. Iconic.
A good reminder to vote against genocide Joe.
And vote for Genocidal Convicted Felon Trump?
Don't forget that he is a certified charlatan and rapist. Also he is a terrible businessman and overall shit person in general. Republican's favorite person.
Being a charlatan and rapist is very bad. Supporting genocide and mass murder is worse.
They’re poisoning the blood of our country
Trump quoting Hitler on immigrants.
Thanks for the reminder to vote against dementia Don.
Wow. Reading this comment has lowered the IQ of everyone in this thread...
Hey, have you kissed your Nick Fuentes photo today?
Are we really going with the trump is hitler thing again?
no, he himself is doing that.
Please tell me exact things he has done that have been like hitler? I need direct examples of things he has actually done directly.
Holy conspiracy theory dude... "In a picture trump tweeted, if you turn it sideways and raise the light levels you will see a ghost image of hitler in the picture behind his head!"
yeah dude, none of it is intended, just whoopsie daisy, accidentally nazi'd again... yeah it wasn't convincing for pewdiepie, not gonna be convincing with the actual fascist who says he wants to be a dictator.
When you see someone on the right claiming a thing that sounds crazy, that is literally you with that website you linked. Its so weird that stuff works on you guys.
as i said I don't have time for bad faith bullshit. come back when you get one comment with positive karma.
So you have time to get into conspiracy theories but not respond to someone with a different opinion... Sounds great!
He's more of a Gaddafi, but you won't like that much either.
Countries that go for these types of guys never end up doing well, but the fans never seem to notice.
Trump is a Gaddafi? Trump wants to nationalize the main sources of wealth of the country, to redirect the profits towards the majority of the population, towards education and healthcare and infrastructure? Trump is a weird form of socialist who believes in something analogous in America to the Pana-Africanism and Pan-Arabism that Gaddafi promoted?
What the hell is that comparison?
They're both conniving, self-serving authoritarian dummies. It's true that Gaddafi had some virtues and Donny doesn't seem to have any.
Gaddafi actively turned his country from a backwards, exploited, standard north-african country, into the country in Africa with the highest living standards... I'm sorry but you can't compare him with Trump.
While you can say Gaddafi had some authoritarian tendencies, Libya had a democratic parliament in no way less functional than the one in the US.
Yall need to learn some history.
The liberal SDP split with the communists, supporting "centrist" Hindenburg in the name of unity.
The communists campaigned on "A vote for Hindenburg is a vote for Hitler is a vote for war"
Hindenburg won the election, getting more votes than either the communist or fascist candidates.
Hindenburg, the liberal candidate, then proceeded to make Hitler the chancellor and staff positions of power with nazis while purging the government of communists.
The nazis then barely had to do anything to assert complete control.
The nazis didn't get in power because communists stayed home, they got into power because the liberals would rather work with fascists than communists.
Those lib kids would be very upset if they could read
Lets not bury the lede. You run weak Democrats, you comprise with fascists (or just do the policies yourself; Biden's border bill, Congressional support for making criticism of Israel a hate crime) : this is the path you put us on.
It looks a lot like in a way History is repeating itself: the Democrat Establishment in the US (who are a hard neoliberals, not lefties) fielded directly and without a Primary a guy like Biden who is less than in his prime and even supports an ethno-Fascist regime commiting Genocide (and, more importantly, is unwilling to walk back on that support even to improve his odds of winning against Trump, which is what we are being told is the most important thing in the World) all of which is making it far more likely that the Fascists will get power.
There are vast contradictions between what we are being told is the danger of Trump getting elected and the DNC and Biden persistently making choices that increase the chances of Trump getting elected and not walking back on those.
Surelly if "Stop Trump" is the most important thing in the World for them, the Democrat Establishment too would be walking towards the wishes of the electorate not just trying to push the electorate to do all the walking towards the wishes of the Democrat Establishment.
Agreed.
We can't say we must do everything to stop Trump and then shrug and say hold your nose and vote for the guy that's polling poorly.
That's not trying everything that's people in power wanting one outcome that are willing to risk everything they say they don't want because the scared masses should hopefully fall in line without even a backup plan for it not working.
This isn't trying and doing everything to stop a fascist dictator taking power this is capitalist conservatives trying to stretch out their win for a little bit longer using what they think is a sure win. This can only ever end poorly even if it's just another 4 years later from now.
the democrat establishment is already getting what they want from voters and the system and they won't get any of the blame should they lose; so they both have no reason to change nor do they have anything to risk by trying something new.
those contradictions you referenced are the centrists version of fox news stoking the culture war, but more vague because they're trying to appeal both both centrists and leftist; that and project 2025 are the talking points that the moderates are parroting to justify against voting progressively, thus proving martin luther king's opinion of the the american moderate is true.
and lets not forget what stopped hitler wasnt electoralism. it was the soviets, and they needed force at that point.
And the Ukrainians, and the Poles, and the French resistance, and the British, and the Americans, and the Canadians, and...
the soviets were the ones to bear the weight of all the casualties. while your heroes were sipping tea waiting for them to be destroyed by the nazis...
the british, really? americans? yall need to open a history book. ever heard of operation paperclip? or how anticommunist most of these were?
Exactly, the country that shared a massive land border with the NAZIs and was a direct target of their aggression suffered many more casualties than the ones what didn't, who'da thunk it? Without the combined efforts of essentially the entire rest of the world, the USSR would have been toast.
yall need some history. the USSR and germany did not share borders until much later, the west was nowhere to be found by the time they reached berlin.
the us mostly really only helped by the end when victory over nazis was already on the horizon.
They didn't share a border until the Soviets and NAZIs jointly invaded their neighbor Poland.
no such thing as "jointly invaded"
Nah they're an .ml user... It's all about soviets. USSR is literal utopia to them and didn't do anything wrong.
Forget that the Nazi efforts were always more focused on the western fronts...
Wowsers, that's horrible! I'll make sure not to vote for Biden if he nominates Trump as his VP.
During Hitlers Ascent to Power, the communist still considered the SPD to be the bigger threat and refused to march with them. And the SPD of the 1930 were by no means "liberals". They were further to the left than any democrat has ever been.
...which was confirmed when they agreed with the Nazis... And when they collaborated with the Freikorps to crush, torture, and murder the communists.
Go ask Rosa Luxembourg, leader of communists in Germany and murdered at 47 at the order of SPD, how progressive and left the SPD was. "Left is when you agree to murder and torture communists". Fucking revisionists man
They agreed with Hitler? They were the only faction voting against him during the Gleichschaltungkrise.
"Left is when you agree tp torture and murder communists". So we both agree that the Stalinist Sovietunion and the KPD, which allied themselves with them arent left?
No, both SPD and KPD were way to the left of all pther political parties and had they banded together, like they did during the Kappputsch, my homecountry wouldnt have been destroyed and 60 Million People would probably still be alive. After every other institution failed Germany, these two failed them in conjunction by not even trying to organize a joined force.
One country ended up with Nazis. The other ended up defeating the Nazis. I'd say the Bolsheviks did a better job, didn't they? The fact that there was oppression against Mensheviks and SRs in the context of a civil war, doesn't mean they're anticommunists, they didn't quite literally enable the Nazis in order to murder the ones who were more communist than them, but defeat them instead.
Want to find the blame for Nazism in Germany? The fault is primarily of Nazis, and then of Nazi enablers, and then of anti-communist leftists.
Uh. The Bolsheviks actively collaborated with Hitler and the Nazis, right up until Operation Barbarossa. The Soviets carved up Poland between themselves and Germany, and tried to invade Finland (Winter War, Continuation War), which is why the Finns ended up allying with the Nazis after Operation Barbarossa.
Got it bro, the actual Nazis aren't the Nazis, neither the ones who eliminated the most radical oppositors to Nazism, but actually the ones that died 26+mn of trying to fight them. God, you anti-communist revisionists are exhausting.
Ugh, not this Nazi talking point again... The Soviet Union pursued for all the 30s a policy called "collective security", in which it desperately tried to achieve mutual-defense pacts with England, France and Poland because the soviets knew that their 15-year-old nation which had only just started industrializing since the end of the feudal and backwards Russian Empire, didn't have a chance alone against the Nazis with their 150 year long history of industry (as would be seen later with the USSR suffering 26+mn deaths during the war, in places like Belarus 1 in 4 people died). The USSR wanted these mutual defense agreements to the point of offering to send 1 million soldiers to France and England if they agreed to mutual defense... which France, England and Poland denied because they thought Nazis would attempt their declared goal of eliminating communisnm and massacring the "slavic untermenschen". After this was denied and it was obvious that the west would rather see the USSR invaded than reach a mutual defense agreement, they did the only possible course of action: delaying the war as much as possible to prepare for it and industrialize a bit more. That's where the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact takes place, not before a decade of exhausting every possible negotiation route with France and England in opposition to Nazism.
The fact that the USSR then proceeded to (rather bloodlessly, around 50k deaths overall, very comparable to the oppression within the USSR itself) invade Poland, has to do with the USSR not trusting the Polish government. Why? In 1917, the Bolshevik revolution drafted an unprecedentedly progressive constitution which granted the right to self-determination and lawful secession to all peoples of the former Russian Empire. That's how many countries such as Finland or Poland suddenly gained independence lawfully and peacefully in a never-before-seen act of respect of the right of self-determination. What did Poland immediately proceed to do? Become fully nationalist, ignore the right to self-determination of other peoples, and invade Ukraine (and later the USSR) in an attempt to gain territories they considered theirs by historical right. When they had conquered a good chunk of modern Ukraine and Belarus, the Polish Government decided it was a good idea to start a war against the USSR, since the USSR was plunged deep into a civil war and didn't have many resources or troops to defend itself, and some conquests and victories could grant them a positive peace agreement which granted the territories the Polish Nationalists considered theirs (while ignoring the right to self-determination that the Bolsheviks had granted them less than two years earlier). Poland was also happy to make peace and appeasement treaties with Nazi Germany as long as they could also get some territorial gains from Czechoslovak land.
Similarly, Finland in 1917 after gaining independence, was plunged into a civil war between communists and whites, which the latter won and proceeded to imprison communists in Finland who had supported the Reds, around 80k of which some 12k died (funny how nobody talks about that). The USSR had reasons to suspect of a possible alliance between the Finnish government and the Nazis, and proceeded to invade Finland. After the failure of the invasion, as you said, Finland joined the Nazis.
Blaming the USSR for entering a non-aggression treaty with the Nazis, when all western nations had done it, and after 10 years of the USSR trying to make mutual defense agreement with Poland, England and France, is at best ignorant, and at worst purposefully misinforming with an agenda. The USSR had reasons to suspect of Poland and Finland (especially given its history of constant betrayals by all European powers since the October Revolution, with 14 countries sending troops to aid the Tsarist loyalists against the Bolsheviks) and, while outright invasions may not be justified, it could all have been prevented if the western powers had actually agreed to fight nazism. It's absolutely nuts to blame the USSR and call them "collaborators with Nazis" given the historical background of the two decades before the war, especially the latter.
Wut.
50,000 deaths is 'rather bloodlessly'? And since that's comparable to oppression within the USSR, it's not that bad?
Correct. That, right there, is the most important point you've made. They collaborated with Nazis to carve up territories, and were then shocked when the Nazis turned on them. As far as the appeasement pacts made with Nazi Germany by France, England, et al., there's very, very good reasons why the Vichy gov't and Quisling are viewed so negatively by everyone that isn't an apologist.
Good job evading the uncomfortable 90% of my comment. Since we're at that point, I will proceed to evade 100% of yours, seeing how you're not interested in discussing actual facts such as the reasons for the USSR to make a non aggression treaty with the Nazis after a decade of systematic rejection of military alliances by Poland, England and France.
Cool. In this comparison, none of that matters and the Tweet has a completely valid point.
Unless you suspect Biden will be appointing Trump in his cabinet if he wins?
We've been saying from day one, that if Biden doesn't move to the left and use every tool at his disposal to improve people's material conditions, Trump's going to win in 2024.
Biden didn't just not go left, he tried to outflank the republicans from the right by facilitating genocide, ending covid protections, and passing the most draconian border bill since like the 40s.
This is the closest thing he could have done to handing Trump the presidency, short of appointing him VP and stepping down.
This is one of the worst examples of confirmation bias I have ever seen. The Biden Administration's entire record is out there for you to peruse, and you pick 3 things out of hundreds, possibly thousands, that you think justify your comparison.
Outflanking the rights is a bad decision, because you put their extreme positions into mainstream.
You really expect to be taken seriously saying some idiotic shit like this?
Your hyperbole is over the top. Trump’s Title 42 and Muslim ban were far worse.
POTUS has no reasonable control over grocery store prices, which is the part of the economy everyone is most concerned with. Last time an Executive Order was used to price fix the food industry, it blew up in Nixon’s face. Supply chain constraints were industry wide, and when the order expired, prices went up far past standard inflation. The other big concern is housing, which could be addressed with legislation if Democrats had congressional majority.
I completely agree about support of Israel. The only comparison is knowing Trump will be worse for Palestinians. It’s terrible to reconcile, but those are the options.
Abstaining isn’t voting for Trump, it’s refusing to stand in his way.
Biden waited 3.5 years to end title 42 and tried to close the border. He has deported more people than Trump.
He literally does though. But there's a million other things he could have done when he had control. Instead we just get excuses about how powerless the party controlling both houses and the presidency was because of Manchin or the parliamentarian or the SCOTUS or some rules the dems set for themselves or norms or whatever.
There's no point in quibbling about whether Biden was less bad than trump, these actions decrease how many people will vote for him. Implementing policy that makes you lose the election is refusing to stand in republican's way.
Wrong.
Biden ended the Muslim Ban on Jan 21, 2021, the day after he was inaugurated.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2021/01/21/biden-executive-order-ends-muslim-travel-ban-donald-trump/4240420001/
He ended Title 42 on May 20, 2022, but the measure was stopped by federal judges. It took until May of 2023 to be completed.
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/20/title-42-border-judge-ruling-migrants/
Nobody is talking about the Muslim ban, we're talking about the more recent attempt to close the mexican border.
But it's irrelevant, you're still missing the point.
My point is that Biden's unpopular actions decrease how many people will vote for him. This is how Biden ensures Trump will come to power.
Did you not read the second half of my comment? He ended Title 42 a year and a half after taking office. Federal judges stopped it for a year.
You wrote three and a half years.
You fabricate information in your comments often. I will always call out misinformation.
Cite your sources and stop with the lies.
Incidentally, you quoted my point about the Muslim ban in your previous comment. So yeah, we were certainly talking about it.
Biden has done plenty of good where Trump did nothing or actively worsened things for the working class, minorities, and the planet. You only select Biden’s worst policies to define his presidency.
It doesn't matter if his excuse was some court he can just ignore and face no consequences asked him to keep it in place or if did it on a whim, he had the power to change it, he didn't use it. It was in place for like 3 and a half years.
You're not calling out misinformation, you're quibbling.
You inflated his inaction on Title 42 by two years. Quibbling my ass. I’m calling you a liar. This is not the first time I’ve called you out on false information.
Something tells me it won’t be the last.
He took an action that took 3 years to complete instead of ending it on day one and telling the courts to fuck off.
That's keeping it in place for 3 years.
This isn't misinformation, this is you being intentionally dense.
POTUS is the head of the Executive Branch. He has no control over the Judicial Branch other than appointing judges in the event of vacancy.
Telling them to “fuck off” is meaningless nonsense.
Also, it still wasn’t three years. From inauguration in January of 2021 to May of 2022. You seem to really want to be right. You’d probably have more success if you cited accurate information.
You shouldn't engage with this guy. Its always a bait and switch/ false premise/ straw man with this guy.
You make a point about an actual bill (the mexican border bill), he makes it about trump and a muslim ban.
Its always in bad faith. Its a condition of blue MAGA.
Read the thread you’re so confident in condemning.
I cited my statements while your friend here repeatedly made false claims.
The Mexican Border bill you’re referring to is an Executive Order, not congressional legislation. Trump’s border Executive Order was the Muslim ban. Neither of which required congressional approval, and therefore are directly equatable.
Maybe you two should get a place together in misinformation land.
Just downvote and move along.
Blue fash is still fash. They aren't an allie.
In 2016 I voted for Bernie in the primary, and Hillary in the election.
Using my civic duty to compromise for the lesser of two evils does not make me a fascist.
Name calling is unproductive and childish. Have a conversation or find someone else to use as your stepladder to superiority.
Just a reminder to folks emphasizing that retailers used that as cover for corporate greed, and a lot of it was lies. Various links:
https://dailymontanan.com/2024/03/27/trade-watchdog-big-retailers-used-supply-chain-problems-to-inflate-grocery-costs/
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/21/us/politics/grocery-prices-pandemic-ftc.html
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/07/retailers-have-been-cutting-costs-so-why-are-prices-still-so-high/
Great quote from that Harvard one:
The FTC report that is the basis for the first three links above: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/03/ftc-releases-report-grocery-supply-chain-disruptions
And don't get me started on shrinkflation.
That’s true of the post-pandemic food industry prices for sure. That description was regarding the failure of Nixon’s attempt to price fix with an Executive Order.
Oh sorry I was clearly not paying much attention to what I was reading. Thanks for the gentle correction.
No problem. Thank you for citing sources in your comment. I always appreciate substantiation in this world of misinformation.
If you look at many people’s material conditions during Trump and during Biden, they haven’t gotten better. You can say whatever you want about Biden’s policies, his cabinet appointments, and how much Democrats have done when they hold power, but at the end of the day it hasn’t changed most folks’ lives one bit. It might be good metric-wise, but until folks feel like they’re better off it doesn’t matter.
Also, it’s hilarious to me how much shit Republicans seem to get done even when they don’t hold the House, Senate, and White House together, but the minute Republicans get one of those, suddenly it’s “oh shit Democrats can’t do anything”. It’s like Republicans are playing with nukes and Democrats are showing up with rubber band guns.
And no, I won’t be voting for Biden, I’ll be voting third party. And I know, you think “a vote for a third party is a vote for Trump”, but I don’t give a shit. I’ve been seeing this same “at least I’m not…” shit for 25 years and watching our country be sold to the highest bidder under both parties. At this point, if we can’t figure out shit out, we deserve to be razed to the ground.
I think it's more like Trump getting elected and he is appointing Putin as US president. Which isn't that far off, is it?
Also, Hitler had to declare a state if emergency to gain the absolute power the Supreme Court has just handed to the US president.
Suffice it to say, something lile this is impossible now in Germany. The justices of our highest court, the Bindesverfassungsgericht, can only hold the job for 12 years and can be no older than 68. They are also always equally voted in by two different branches of the government and need a two thirds majority for any decision.
Our democracy isn't without faults, but this is probably our strongest bulwark against another descent into facsism.
Let's hope it holds up against the AFD
it looks like it isn’t holding up? How are they allowed to still campaign?
Because the Verfassungsschutz sucks, but that's not the fault of the Bundesverfassungsgericht.
And they repeatedly declared laws of the government unconstitutional, not matter which parties were in the coalition at the moment.
They're concealing their true nature, and get a bunch of naïve moderates to clean their image. Jobbik did it in Hungary first, it even lead to the radicals splitting out the party under Mi Hazánk Mozgalom (Our Homeland Movement - technically a satellite party and the "bad cops" of Fidesz), and the moderates rebranding as more boring conservatives. Fidesz learned this tactic, and used it to make Trianon Revisionism seem like a "common cause". Gamergate also did it the first round, the second round was just a literal reaction against any kind of inclusivity. The republicans are also doing it of course: Their average voter isn't as evil as it seems, they're just the naïve loyal voters, who think even if things go bad, they can just be removed from legislation. Which is true, but it will be hard if democracy is dismantled like in Hungary, and even then you can't unlegislate ruined lives, the dead from their graves, the lost years people had to endure because of bad laws and no worker's protections.
I think Trump will declare a state of emergency as soon as people will riot against his unjust laws. Project 2025 has something about deploying the military against the population to force through deeply unpopular laws.
Hitler was appointed chancellor by Hindenburg. He wasn't voted in by the people.
Even setting aside the bit of history where the SDP party rallied around Hindenburg because of their deep and abiding fear of the Evil Russian Backed KDP party (god damn, everything old really is new again), there were three different elections from July of '32 to March of '33. The Nazis took 37% of the seats in July, dipped down to 32% in November, and then jumped to 43% the following March.
And then, what really kicked off martial law was the Reichstagg fire, which was blamed on Tankie Antifa Far-Left Communists and used to justify a Nazi-lead state of martial law. Liberals, Conservatives, and Fascists all united under a single banner in their staunch hatred of German Communism.
This was decades after German military police and Freikorps paramilitary groups under Hindenburg crushed the Spartacus League during the 1919 strike wave. The leaders of the movement - Rosa Luxemburg, Karl Liebknecht, and Franz Mehring - were executed by the police and the organizations disbanded under threat of further imprisonment/execution.
This, in comparison to the Beer Hall Pustch four years later, in which Hitler's band of low-ranking military officers were tossed in the drunk tank for nine months, before returning to politics and rapidly climbing the ranks on the basis that he'd been martyred by (((bad Germans))) who secretly controlled the government.
Gotta wonder how this compares to the 2014 BLM protests, the subsequent police crackdown, and then the string of BLM leadership "suicides" where members of the movement shot themselves in the head right before being incinerated in their cars. Or the widespread bipartisan/corporate efforts to suppress labor activism in the rail, shipping, and Amazon distribution centers, the automotive industry, and the Starbucks-centric food service sectors.
Or the feeble efforts by US government officials to arrest/convict J6ers, the hand-slap sentencing of Alex Jones and Steve Bannon, and the stubborn refusal to federally prosecute Donald Trump.
Oh well, anyways!
Yeah we have a lot more in common with pre third Reich Germany than people want to talk about and it's not just a voting for a crazy shouting lunatic thats making the comparison so eerily similar.
The staunch refusal to try and go left and actually make things better and give people to rally behind is gonna do a lot of the heavy lifting of moving people to the right and it's not appreciated or understood by the people who make the memes about voting for Biden regardless of anything.
That does depend on who is making those memes. The bad faith propaganda meant to further divide the population targets all sides of all issues and it's another very divisive issue. Any time I see someone making what should be a good point but in a way that will instead increase resistance, I suspect that's what's going on. It's not a certain way to determine if that's happening; anyone who has read How to Win Friends and Influence People knows that our instincts about persuasion are bad even before any bad faith is involved.
Shit, the Freikorps immediately turned around after murdering the Spartacus League and overthrew the SPD government who sent them out. The Kapp Putsch. And the SPD compromised with them.
I, personally, have learned from history, which is why I'll be voting PSL in the upcoming election.
There is a good reason why it starts with "first they came for the communists"
2014 BLM protests? You're almost a decade early there
Are we going to ignore the Ferguson protests after the police slaying of Michael Brown?
You missed the moment where NSDAP and German communists kinda had intersecting constituencies, as in "angry young people with nothing good to do".
Many stormtroopers were members of both at different points of their, eh, path.
Which was almost certainly a false flag operation by Nazis.
Such parallels always suck. They didn't really have liberals in the Weimar republic. It was all conservatives, monarchists, nationalists, and some fishy social-democrats. And it was kinda authoritarian at every point.
Yep. You might consider that such a republic shouldn't be so readily compared to the US.
I'm not saying future is cool.
We got monarchists. We got nationalists. We got conservatives. And most USians hate communism as an internalized educational message become reflex. We are not that far apart chronologically, either.
And not to mention the bunds and many American industrialists were very horny for Hitler not all that long ago. Those families didn't go anywhere.
This may happen, but not the same way, all I can say.
Like losing the popular vote.
The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men. — Plato
Just ask my slaves. Gods, I love slavery. - Plato
Imagine having a political opponent you consider equal to Hitler and choosing Joe Biden as the candidate you run against him.
And after the debate you have to wonder who you're really voting for. I don't believe he's really calling the shots. If it's Obama or something okay, but let's be honest.
Idiotic conspiracy theories like this is troll shit.
I don't believe you are not an idiot. Let's be honest.
You really think he's in control? He looks like he can't control his bowels.
The only one who can't control their bowels is diaper don.
"Real men wear diapers" - seen at tRump rallies
Cope
We have actual multiple audio captures of Trump shitting his pants: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1dqvcag/to_what_extent_did_trump_literally_crap_his_pants/
That's just one of many!
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CFf2cCWF1Ih/?hl=en
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/former-apprentice-staffer-claimed-trump-often-soiled-his-diapers-on-set-had-foul-odor/vi-AA1lVd3y
I'm not a fan of Trump, and many very mentally sharp people have issues with bodily functions - that's often part of life and I apologize for using it as a slur.
I still think Biden is looking unfit to be one of the top world leaders for the next 4 1/2 years.
The one who doesn't pledge to be a dictator.
Next you’ll be telling us about “big Mike”, right, Chuddy?
Since this is posted on a shitpost community, I'll just assume it's not supposed to be taken seriously.
Likely testing waters to see if it would land.
We already had trump and biden, and country has been in structural decline since at least 2008.
It doesn't matter who is the next president since there is zero indication current policy will be adjusted in any meaningful way to to provide any relief for working people.
Beatings will continue until morale improves.
Income tax sunset from trump corpo tax cuts coupled with inflation really pinching people this year. But fake news and our dear leaders can't figure why z peasants are bitching since inflation is "down"
Just a reminder that Biden has been working overtime to provide student debt relief the entire time he's been in office. Republicans have been working overtime to block it.
Student debt shouldn't even exist. We need more education, not less.
Using existing means to cancel fraudulent loans for non accredited schools that went under or people who were already supposed to have their loans forgiven by standing law but hadn't because people like literally Joe Biden have given the keys to the kingdom to the business that want to make money more and have been going unpunished for screwing over the general populace.
They aren't real actually helpful policies it's minor enforcement of things that he and others of the major parties have ignored being broken for the bank accounts of their donors.
Which is not an adjustment in policy in any meaningful way.
If regulation was being drawn up to control pricing of higher education, then we could talk.
Student debt relief without a reduction in prices is just funneling money to colleges with extra steps. It is an important step, Biden should be doing it, but it needs to be accompanied by serious consumer protections and price controls applied to colleges.
Sure, college education should just be a part of the regular public education system like it is in Europe. More education is a boon for the individual, society, and the economy.
That would be good, private colleges could still exist but they'd have to compete with free college so the prices would have to come down and the value come up, a win for the consumer either way. It would be expensive but an important investment in our future.
Biden could sign an executive order right now forgiving all government-backed student loans. He doesn't need to work overtime on this, he could literally hand-write it and sign it in like five minutes.
I believe he actually did a blanket forgiveness, and the conservative majority of the Supreme Court struck it down.
Good for 100k people... Thanks daddy
For the remainder: beatings will continue until morale improves.
Where are you getting 100k? 8 million so far, close to 45 have debt.
what program are walking here about?
4 downvotws but nobody can name it huh
“dOnT cArE, nOt VoTiNg”
-hexbear
So weird to think that that all went down in 14 years. 2010 doesn't seem that long ago.
The proper marker is 2008... It has been going down hill and fast.
Boomers created this paradise for us.
Yeah... I mean.. bad decisions to "fix" the country post crash followed by the absolutely nauseating problematic laws and decisions since, like citizens united and eased FTC regulations.
And all that before I was even close to being able to vote.
But here we have the boomers and silent generation demanding they know best and will never die and their kids in Gen X just sitting back and trying to make their money at the expense of generations after claiming they "feel sorry" for us without even lifting a finger to help...
Honestly fuck a few generations even though it doesn't help against the real issue of the rich but there was a lot of adults in the room ignoring it because they still felt comfortable well past the signs.
Boomers sold out their kids and country for macmansions and 401ks (most of them did not even get either) by providing political cover for the regime looting the country and fucking the working people.
It is a really disgusting set up the more you learn the mechanics, just getting fucked at every turn.
The fuckening is systemic and premeditated.
They just needed a little bit more. One more sweet hit of that cash before they will get out of the way. And it's not like they are doing anything young people wouldn't do and they will live long enough to get their win eventually. /S
Man the lead levels in their corpses are probably gonna poison the soil for generations (I'm hoping it was lead and not just societal selfishness)
It think the lead theory is a cope...
Hard to admit to yourself that entire society is like this on purpose lol
It didn't just take "Hitler's death" for Germans to be able to vote again. It wasn't a case of "oh look, he's dead, now we can go back to democracy". It took over a decade of political terror and violence, a devastating world war, and one of the most organised campaigns of mass murder and genocide in history.
If they survived that is.
Yeah, and he went away not because they voted him out but thanks to Soviet weapons.
Who allied up with the Nazis to invade Poland?
IBM and Standard Oil
Soviets were the only ones who truly supported the Spanish democracy against the fascist. Every other country, including Poland, turned their back to us while the Luffwaffle was bombing our citizens.
Curious that their backstabbing the Spanish republicans was instrumental in losing the Spanish Civil War for the republican side. Strange kind of support.
What kind of propaganda are you reading in which sending weapons, planes and officers (while all the other countries did NOTHING) is backstabbing.
Spain democracy lost because the allied powers did not care about us the same way the cared about Poland.
You're on Divide By Zero, you should be fucking familiar with how they fucked the anarchists and the Trots, and that most of their 'aid' was purchased, not given.
I'm friends with everyone leftist, even if they hate each other. I can feel comfortable among anarchist, tankies, socdems, new age leftists, reformist, etc. Because I know what our common objective is and I just can't care about the subtle differences. So I know the anarchist side of the story as well as I know the tankie side.
Being myself an active member of the social movement in my country and actually having watched modern day anarchist working with modern day communists I can say without any doubts that no version is true. Probably both starting arguing about stupid shit, and actual personal problems disguised as political problems, when they should had focused on the real enemy. But anyway I'm thankful for ALL who fought against fascism in Spain, anarchist, communist, republicans... I thank the international brigades, I thank orwell and I thank the soviets and stalinist. They all put their lives on line to stop fascism.
I just despise such an unproductive and harmful division of the left for shit that just does not matter when the true enemy is so big. And sometimes I just see a lust for internal division and eternal losing in such behavior. I don't know how some leftists have energy left to hate each other after they should had used that energy to fight the true enemy, capitalism and fascism. And I say this for any anarchist who hates tankies and any tankie who hates anarchists. You are not enemies, the enemy is in other direction.
Even when those 'subtle differences' result in being backstabbed and sold out and the entire cause being lost against a fascist enemy, great. Subtle little differences, like "We need to purge the anarchists and Trots" should be met with "We need complete and total cooperation with the people who want to purge us 😊"
The true meaning of a united front, huh?
As I said I have actually worked a lot in environments with a diverse leftist spectrum.
And in my experience backstabbing usually goes both ways and is a result of the previous hate (and a lot of the time because personal non political issues) not the other way around.
And yes. The only wins I've seen is when there have been total cooperation. Division is always the prelude of defeat.
And be ensure that I would be saying exactly the same words to any tankie who talks about "purging any leftist" no matter what their ridiculous arguments are for such a premise. I've heard it all and it is often just as untrue.
And American weapons. Let's not pretend that the USSR fought alone.
And Brittish weapons
and my axe!
And Fremch razor
Land Lease is just a western conspiracy!
It's Lend-Lease...
Probably more accurate to say American trucks and raw materials, but yes.
They did do 80% of the fighting, though. So lets not give America too much credit.
They did 80% of the dying, the current Ukraine war should be evidence that Russia's force multiplier is fractional
They did some rapes too !
And only stole most of east Germany's infrastructure.
East Germany paid war reparations to the Soviets while rebuilding itself into an industrial powerhouse - the people who "stole most of East Germany's infrastructure" were the West German capitalists after reunification, when the whole region was forcibly de-industrialized and left a shadow of its former self that still hasn't fully recovered over thirty years later.
Source?
I read Stasi State or Socialist Paradise some years ago, I recommend it for anyone interested in a history of East Germany that isn't written by West German propagandists.
As did everyone. There's no study showing that the amount of rapes per soldier by the soviets is higher than that of other nations.
Oh fuuuuck of. There are books based on actual KGB archives that were opened up. Rape of Berlin is well described. There are books about the actual bordelos attached to armies. Western armies. Soviet officers had army wives. Apparently they still do.
There are countless accounts of people prefering Nazi soldiers to soviets. It is THE reason central and easter Europe hates russia.
No data on rapes my ass. But pleeenty of data that soviets single handedly saved the world from Nazis.
Get a grasp.
Wow, so the released KGB archives show the tapes. I wonder what would happen if the Americans or the English did that too!
Hatred of Russians by eastern Europeans is due to 30+ years of anti-communist propaganda. The fact that poles hate the USSR which liberated more than the very Nazis who genocided millions of them, shows this. And it wasn't the case 40 years ago.
Polls in France after WW2 showed 70%+ of people saying it was the USSR who saved them from Nazism. Nowadays, it's 70% Americans. That's what Hollywood and propaganda do.
Yup, propaganda. Sure.
Yes. Propaganda.
https://external-preview.redd.it/AhO5ZQ677V5Y9TmxXkvG9PfdoBCeDKR7gFKy84JiGTc.jpg?auto=webp&s=e727011a95ea3bbe987cc313ffdda0e38fae8c64
Your link shows nothing. And no. Not at all propaganda. As a Polish citizen, fuck you. The entirety of my family hates the USSR. Including those who were alive for WW2. No propaganda about it.
Their link shows some infographic in french, for me. I have reposted it.
Interesting. Look's like the "old.reddit" plugin breaks that link. Weird that they have to source a reddit thread rather than the actual study. Red flag for sure that they're full of shit. https://www.ifop.com/publication/la-nation-qui-a-le-plus-contribue-a-la-defaite-de-lallemagne/ Now is that graph valid... well looking at the "study report"... It's like 3 pages of content that doesn't actually outline much of anything and conflates with itself. The report says it was 1200 people 18 and older... the website says sample size of 995 people. The study report says 1200 people sample for the 2015 figures, except it was actually taken in may 2014. And no figures about how many people in the previous years. So I would worry about how "valid" this is to begin with. But let's look at the content on the original page.
The study even cites the reason this "perception" could have been a thing... (translated, possibly poorly. Check yourself! But my high school french skills only go so far).
So actually it looks like Russia propaganda in the 1940s thanks to De Gualle's personal opinions on the matter.
So I'm going to go with, not only does that graph itself mean nothing in this conversation, but the story behind it actually damns the argument they're trying to make, especially since the matter is well known https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/01402390.2016.1220367.
No, you see, your grandparents did not encounter both Nazis and soviets. Your parents did not live under communist rule. And most of all you cannot even pin point results of current day ramifications of: 1. Occupation period, 2. Communism.
Totally, propaganda. It is sooo good that they even brainwashed your parents into thinking like they lived in bad communist state. It is so good it feels like there is a rift between generations.
Totally. And would not you know, they also did that in the Baltics and Czech.
Ah yes I forget, my family's lived experience isn't real because some jerkwad on lemmy said so. The source of a removed comment on reddit proved otherwise! You've converted me, the stories, written history, oral stories that I've recorded for my own records/kids/history must all be wrong. Literal hours of first hand accounts and hundreds of pages of documented familial history must be tainted and not an accurate account of the glorious USSR reign. Fuck... I better delete my grandfathers phone number. It must be getting answered by some deepfake AI voice...
I can see it in my browser and my phone, but sure. It's a poll showing how in 1945, 55% of French people claimed the USSR freed them from Nazism. In 2015 it's 25%. That's exactly propaganda.
When you are ready to spend 10% of the time you spend shitting on communism and the USSR, actually shitting on the Nazism which carried out actual genocide in your country, I'll be ready to talk with you. I'm sorry that the Polish foundational myth is based on Russophobia and anti-communism, it's impossible to have meaningful discussions of 20th century socialism with most polish people.
https://lemmy.saik0.com/post/911795/3275325
feel free to actually address it at your leisure. But you've shown that you're crazy anyway. So I don't think anyone has high hopes for you.
I shit on both Nazis and Russia. Both then and now.
I used that link not from a Reddit thread, I just know the graph and the easiest way for me to find it was to google-image-search it, and it's the first link that I could copy-paste, since it's more productive imo to link a graph than an entire study, since it's a comment section and not a scientific article.
So basically, your whole argument is, "the graph is kinda sus and I don't trust the source, probably russian propaganda, I hate Russia and I hate Nazis". Not the strongest rebuttal in my opinion.
Regardless. Notice how your phrase isn't "I hate Nazis and I hate the USSR and I hate the modern Russian government". You can make the distinction between Germany and Nazis, but you can't make the distinction between the Russian governments at different times and the nation as a whole. This proves further my point that your hatred is more Russophobia than actual historical criticism of the actions of governments.
Suddenly you only go as far back as WW2, not to the German-occupied regions of Poland before and during WW1. We forget about those because they weren't Russian, don't we? Those pesky friendly Germans in western Poland, who cares, nothing happened before Nazism, the important thing are the evil Russians. But of course we remember the Poland under the Russian Empire! Because that actually aligns with the contemporary Polish foundational myth!
Never mind that the Bolsheviks granted Poland the legal right to secede in 1917 immediately after the October revolution, and Poland used that power to immediately proceed to invade the similarly recently independent Ukraine and even some soviet lands because of nationalist conceptions of historical borders. It's somehow all the fault of Russians after all, isn't it? Much better to forbid communist parties in Poland while you have literal Nazis in parliament using fire extinguishers against Jewish symbols!
No... and not even close. The graph led me to the study which has obvious flaws... But even IGNORING Those flaws... they themselves put up an argument of why the sentiment could have been this way... and it was because of the French leadership.
Nope, I can make that distinction. The difference here is that both in the past and present they're monsters. During Communism they shit on Poland, and now they threaten Ukraine... our neighbors. I don't NEED to make the distinction because it's both cases. Where as with Gemany I have to make the distinction as they're not currently ruled by the Nazi party.
No... That's the context of this thread. I kept with the context. The fact that you have to keep shifting goal-posts and cannot continue the discussion under the same pretenses is a huge red flag.
So in 1945... what happened to Poland... since they legally succeeded from the USSR they were a free country again right? https://archive.org/details/polandsholocaust00piot/page/88/mode/2up Or did Russia actually completely fuck Poland (again) by undermining it's legitimacy? Removing all previous influences and pulled them into the Soviet Union. Going so far as to kill thousands for no fucking reason other than they weren't communist.
Nah, that just historic revisionism that pro-Russian people spout all the time. You seem to love changing time-frames all the time. So here... let's end this stupidity.
Which time do you want to talk about how Russia tried to fuck Poland? I've traced my roots back to the 1500s... I can possibly talk about a number of these wars.
But it's a general trend that Russia goes out of it's way to Fuck the Polish people. Yet somehow this is Russophobia! Yeah get out of here.
We do know however that the Red Army had the most investigations of and prosecutions of rapists, so it's a bit of a "Swedish rape crisis" problem where they look worse on paper than other countries simply because their record keeping of the crime in question is better.
Oh, boy. Good that soviets took such good care of recording rapes. Unlike bad western nazies. White washing soviet rapes with statistics.
There is also one more reason. soviets had no bordelos for the regular army. Only officers had army wives. It is a known fact. So what would regular grunts would do is rape anything they find.
But probably western propaganda. Because in communism, everyone is equal, and everything belongs to everyone.
Like in current day russia.
I will let you know that you constantly excuse and support ultracapitalist nazi regimes. That makes you a nazi.
Tell me one I'm defending
I also only rape within the average of my demographic
What's your point? Every rape is to be condemned and prosecuted. What isn't fair is making up claims about the amount of rapes by a certain demographic and not backing that up with extensive evidence. That exactly what racist people do against immigrants, and that's what Nazis did against soviets.
Prosecuted ? Yes, war, famously rule-of-law kind of situation...
My point is it should be
Imagine thinking the Russian cowards were the main factor in Hitler’s loss 😂😂😂
This is not a shitpost.
The first NSDAP government came into being in 1930, in Thuringia. It toppled a left-wing government with a broad alliance of liberals, conservatives and right-wing extremists. Today, a center-left government is still in power in Thuringia, but in a tolerated minority government that is dependent on the votes of the other parties. In a few months, it will most likely be voted out by another one. The liberal, conservative and far-right parties are already using their majority to jointly push through laws against the government. An extreme right-wing party will probably become the strongest force and as such will be able to do a lot of damage, even without government participation.
There are already areas where only right-wing candidates are running and right-wing conservatives are the most left-wing option.
Perhaps history will repeat itself this year.
If they're trying to convince Republicans to vote against Trump then they've chosen the wrong argument.
They probably want non voters to vote.
That's just a bit over 3 legislative periods. Hardly enough for anything significant to happen.
Edit: Just two hours passed and Poe's Law struck again.
How long until Coles Law?
(I am very hungry)
Accompanied by J Law*?
*Either him or her, I don't mind both.
This implies that people care, which might not be true...
What do you expect, people think Hitler was good for most Germans and restored economy and made trains run on time, and the defeat part oh well. Because that's what movies show. And that's because for commies Hitler was just a variation of the west, probably less capricious, while for the west Hitler was bad, but good against commies. So both would show Nazis as being better than their opponent.
He wasn't even good for the German economy though, the Nazis produces a large GDP growth through massive military spending, they bankrupted the country well before the war was over, and had they won the war, the German economy would have crashed immediately.
They've also ran a few state-level scams and Ponzi schemes to have the funds for that military and other spending.
Their business model was - step 1, cheat to have money, step 2, use money to rearm, step 3, conquer and loot, thus get funds that way, step 4 probably would be to force some peace, then rearm, then rinse and repeat, but they didn't manage to capture a few strategic areas they needed in time. So they had fuel shortages, food shortages, and ultimately lost.
Their system also only ran as far as it did because of the so called Mefo-bills
These fit under "state-level scams".
EDIT: Still, while I wasn't going to compliment them or something, it can be a valid strategy for survival to use anything to accumulate some operational power ; I can see a few nations (not all of them have recognized states) on the map for which it may be necessary to survive in the following decade. But Nazis didn't have to take such risks, it was ideological for them that theft and robbery are better than honest work.
There was no way Germany could have "won" anyway, unless it resulted in literally conquering the entire world. They were in a state of constant "mission creep" (to use a modern term). Early it was "retake the land we lost in the first war", then it was "Lebensraum im Osten", then Africa, the entire Soviet Union, etc.
Wtf I wrote in the end...
I’m voting for Joe!
I'm voting for Not Trump!
I'm voting for Joe and against Trump.
So brave
I'm not sure what point this snark is supposed to be making, but okay.
So just 14 years, a world war, a holocaust, and an aftermath which still leads to new wars until today?
Yeah I think I’ll just be watching a couple of Netflix documentaries on Nov. 5th. Those are crazy, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1949_West_German_federal_election
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Adenauer#Years_under_the_Nazi_government
What a cool dude. Glad this guy was able to get back in charge of the German government in 1949, because his views were so incredibly normal and good and definitely not what might enable fascism to take root a second time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Adenauer#Ending_denazification
Incredible leadership. Fantastic. Awesome. Love it.
Don't forget helping manufacture the Clean Wehrmacht mythology. Sanitized fucking Heinz Guderian.
The problem with the left everywhere is they don't have the balls to actually take action. They all talk about tolerance and how dialogue should make people change and be the politicians language. No. Certain things shouldn't be tolerated. Fascism and nazism are two of those. Democracy is above anything else. If a subject is trying to undermine democracy or the institutions protecting it, they should be considered a national threat and dealt with accordingly. The problem is that the left is afraid of being seen as "authoritarian" so when a fascist comes and openly says they want to fuck democracy until it becomes a dictatorship, leftists just say "hey now, let's sit down and talk". No, my dude, we don't "sit down and talk" with a fascist. We punch them in the face and tell them "fuck you, if you want to be a dictator, you're a threat for our country and will be dealt with as a terrorist". 80 years ago, we argued with Nazis by shooting them. We forgot and now we're having them in our governments again.
dont conflate liberals with leftists
Yeah -- has the commenter above seen literally any civil war ever? It's the leftists that show up
Wait, I thought the problem is that the communists are oppressive tankies. What's the conclusion then, the left goes too far or it doesn't go far enough?
Please tell me, which ideology do the famous and vilified "antifa", the ones who actually go and punch Nazis, espouse? Are they lukewarm Dems, are they republicans? Or are they actual leftists, both anarchists and communists?
This is true in some cases, not in others. You can argue this is true for Salvador Allende in Chile, you can maybe even argue for pre-spanish civil war Second Republic, but you can't argue this about Maoists or Marxist-Leninists. Those are as far to the left as it gets, isn't it?
Maybe the problem isn't with "the left not being active enough", but with democrats in the US and socialdemocrats in Europe co-opting the left thanks to the power of mass media? Maybe the problem is the century of anti-communist propaganda that we've suffered?
The Democratic platform if they actually acted to stop the rise of fascism and codified basic human rights:
the page is blank
Who's Hitler lol no cap fr fr deadass tho
Jenkins' brother.
Bro, I can't believe how that happened. They erased Jenkins from the timeline and somehow history was completely unaffected, because his brother became Fuhrer. Like what the shit
Leroy is my cuzin
Junkers, dive bombing facts
Just a casual grasp of historical events and a critical phase of post-war and interwar politics and economies of Europe.
There's a lesson there!
Something about a Genocide and never again...
Do you mean the Germans should have voted for Hitler harder OP?
They had better turn out in that electron than the US did in 2020, by 20%, and the Nazi party won a decisive victory. This meme doesn't check out.
Ah yes, another fantastic reason to vote for Claudia De la Cruz in this upcoming election.
The Germans in 1932 all voted for the "realistic" liberal candidate, Hindenberg, and he went ahead and appointed Hitler as chancellor anyway. The only option to prevent the Nazis from rising to power was the communists, which is of course why the Nazis killed all the communists the first chance they got (with the help of the social democrats - don't trust the squad is what I'm saying).
Are you saying Biden will make Trump president?
Since Biden has done nothing to curb the radical conservative takeover of the Supreme Court, he doesn't have to. The GOP has all the undemocratic institutional power they could ever ask for.
is that simple enough for you to understand?
Will also be voting for her, insane how many people think voting for a genocide enabler is a perfectly reasonable thing
There is no escape because Bourgeois representative “democracy” is a lie
Any look at Germany now….
Currently still dealing with Nazis organizing into a major political party.
Shitshow again, and extremely dangerous. Three eastern states are voting this year and the new Nazis are all on top in the polls.
Historical fact: Thüringen was the first state voting for the Nazis, 100 years ago. And they consider to do it again.
tf do you mean?
I took a nap earlier and woke up wondering what year it was 😵💫
Libs trying to teach history before learning it themselves. Iconic.
A good reminder to vote against genocide Joe.
And vote for Genocidal Convicted Felon Trump?
Don't forget that he is a certified charlatan and rapist. Also he is a terrible businessman and overall shit person in general. Republican's favorite person.
Being a charlatan and rapist is very bad. Supporting genocide and mass murder is worse.
Trump quoting Hitler on immigrants.
Thanks for the reminder to vote against dementia Don.
Wow. Reading this comment has lowered the IQ of everyone in this thread...
Hey, have you kissed your Nick Fuentes photo today?
Are we really going with the trump is hitler thing again?
no, he himself is doing that.
Please tell me exact things he has done that have been like hitler? I need direct examples of things he has actually done directly.
i don't have time for bad faith bullshit but here's a list that doesn't even get into his hitler-like tendencies but noting only direct invocations of hitler: https://forward.com/fast-forward/615880/donald-trump-hitler-nazi-references/
Holy conspiracy theory dude... "In a picture trump tweeted, if you turn it sideways and raise the light levels you will see a ghost image of hitler in the picture behind his head!"
yeah dude, none of it is intended, just whoopsie daisy, accidentally nazi'd again... yeah it wasn't convincing for pewdiepie, not gonna be convincing with the actual fascist who says he wants to be a dictator.
When you see someone on the right claiming a thing that sounds crazy, that is literally you with that website you linked. Its so weird that stuff works on you guys.
as i said I don't have time for bad faith bullshit. come back when you get one comment with positive karma.
So you have time to get into conspiracy theories but not respond to someone with a different opinion... Sounds great!
He's more of a Gaddafi, but you won't like that much either.
Countries that go for these types of guys never end up doing well, but the fans never seem to notice.
Trump is a Gaddafi? Trump wants to nationalize the main sources of wealth of the country, to redirect the profits towards the majority of the population, towards education and healthcare and infrastructure? Trump is a weird form of socialist who believes in something analogous in America to the Pana-Africanism and Pan-Arabism that Gaddafi promoted?
What the hell is that comparison?
They're both conniving, self-serving authoritarian dummies. It's true that Gaddafi had some virtues and Donny doesn't seem to have any.
Gaddafi actively turned his country from a backwards, exploited, standard north-african country, into the country in Africa with the highest living standards... I'm sorry but you can't compare him with Trump.
While you can say Gaddafi had some authoritarian tendencies, Libya had a democratic parliament in no way less functional than the one in the US.