Don't panic, thats just me running it on PC, laptop, worklaptop, pinenote, pinephone, steamdeck and in multiple VMs for experimentation. (and don't forget my randomized fingerprinting setup in the browser)
Was gonna ask if this stat included the Steam Deck, as that's also accounting for the vast majority of Linux gaming numbers. Whether it does include the Deck or not, it's a nice rise, but all the better if it doesn't include the Deck. I wonder if the popularity of using Linux on the Raspberry Pi is helping too.
How many people are reading blogs on their steam decks though? I don't think it's having much of an effect for statcounter
You never know, given the Deck has desktop mode. That said, still is a good thing with or without the Deck bolstering the numbers.
How is the PineNote coming along?
I love the idea of the Pinenote, but could never afford one.
This was my question too
Not great tbh. But I made it work for my usecase somewhat.
As a huge tinkerer I like it over the Remarkable2 which I had before and which was a huge pain to customize.
But I wouldn't recommend it to normal people.
How are you randomising your fingerprint? I'm very interested
Edit: ah, in your browser
It rubs the lotion on it's skin.
Hoe is the pinenote? I have been debating on buying one
Hardware is pretty solid, software is extremely lacking.
Only buy one if you want to develop for it.
Thanks, I hoped the software would have been a bit more developed by now. I don't have the time to mess about with it sadly
tell me more about your browser setup.
how do you randomize the fingerprint?
Me, who could do everything I have set up with one RPi: FIVE? Guess imma get a third Pi
What do you use for randomized fingerprinting?
With MS enshitifying Windows at an ever increasing pace and the hard work of open source developers, volunteers, advocates, to make Linux better and more approachable, I won't be surprised at all to see that percentage move up.
"You mean its free and doesn't try to sell me other products the whole time I'm using it?"
There is the psychological factor that Windows behaves more like malware with their forced full screen overlays to shove the Edge into your ass. Over and over again. Microsoft doesn't take No for an answer like an abusive partner.
You put words to the feeling I get whenever I turn on my work PC. It has relatively little to do with my actual work. It's the dread of the psychological abuse of everything asking me to update, upgrade, and look at how cool our AI is, try all of our other products, share your opinion, etc. etc. etc. I would be twice as productive if they let me BYOOS (bring your own OS) and if my day to day tools were Linux compatible. There are best practices for this kind of thing, but many of the most "reputable" tech companies willingly disregard them in favor of mind games and dark psychology.
damn, you might get me back on Windows if it feel like that π₯΄
And Microsoft keeps enshitifying Windows because they know they can get away with it. So many businesses are backed into a corner and have essential parts of their business that are only compatible with Microsoft's tech. They can't switch, they won't even entertain the idea (much less the time/energy required to test it out). The folks at Microsoft know they've won. I won't be surprised when they make Windows 12's compatibility even more egregious than 11's.
Sorry guys, this is just me with a basement full of computers running Linux.
Sorry I've been reinstalling my computer about once a week.
Same but with local repos and cached debs so they don't count
We must all do what we can to BECOME the Mirror.
NixOS user spotted!
I'm a bit more of a masochist, Archlinux. I am beginning to see the appeal of having something like NixOS though.
Definitely try it, using NixOS after the "horrors" of Arch feels much more secure. Your system is basically unbreakable, not unintentionally, at least.
found the power user!
2024 : The year of the Linux desktop
GUYS, IT'S HAPPENING
This time for sure!!!
MY BODY IS READY
10th year in a row
I think at 25 in a row it's a silver jubilee.
Linux also surpassed 10% in my country, Greece (10.72%).
I prepared a couple of old laptops I had around recently, to gift to my niece and cousin, and I put Debian with XFce in both of them. Worked great. And I think that's why Linux is big in Greece. Consider that when someone buys a car here, they use it until the end of its life. Very rarely they sell cars to get something new. The average car is 15 years old in Greece. I think that's the deal with old laptops and computers too: people try to extend the lives of their machines.
how do you check for individual countries?
Follow the link in the post and click on "edit chart data".. You can select time frame, countries, which data to show, etc.
there's a choice on the bottom of the page somewhere
Didn't we hit 3% in January this year? At this rate well reach 350% by EOY!
I know it's a joke, but where did you get that number? If it's at 3% in January and 4% in February. Either it's a flat 1% increase/month or an increase of 33%. How else can it be interpreted?
From the dephs of my ass. But basically it's been around 2% for decades, then it went from 3 to 4% in a matter of months, so it's accelerating exponentially very quickly!
You can do funny things with statistics if you just use the wrong fitness function.
From the depths of my ass
oh ok
Fitness function, nice. Will remember that. Ty :D
How else can it be interpreted?
Exponential increase that has been slow for decades, but is just now starting to ramp up?
Sure, but the question was how they got to the number. If it was a random big number, then fine, that answers my question, but I was just wondering if there was a reason behind it. Usually when people make that joke they just purposefully misinterpret the trend which is why I went for the 1% or 33%
You can download a csv of the market share from 2009, it shows it reached 3% for the first time in jun 2023, there might be some kind of rapid growth in popularity here.
on an unrelated note, people who squeeze in what os they use to every conversation also rises to 4%.
Just wait for VeganOS to drop.
Is equating Linux users to vegans a thing? I came to the conclusion (I thought) on my own...but now reading this here I'm questioning that conclusion
"how do you know someone [does crossfit, is vegan, uses linux]"
"They'll tell you"
It's a fairly common joke and seems to get stapled onto any lifestyle choice that someone likes to talk about
Linux users are like vegetarians
Arch users like vegans. One is a dietary choice, the other a cult.
It's a big thing because it's much easier to make fun of an objectively better lifestyle choice (avoiding meat or Microsoft etc.) than it is to try and argue against it. Especially because that would force people to question their own behaviour and that can be difficult and hurtful.
nah it's just a reputation because people who make these choices usually try to spread the word, but sometimes it becomes perceived as obnoxious. vegans just got a bad reputation because it was relatively early internet days, i haven't seen vegans being as obnoxious as weed smokers, for example.
now, weed smoking is objectively not a better lifestyle choice but i think they're much much worse than vegans ever were. has nothing to do with arguing against things, not that I would argue against veganism anyway; i admire the choice.
hey I try to be vegan for software, but a moderate and balanced diet is the objectively better lifestyle choice than forcing beans and grass down your throat, and producing enough methane to power 2 dutch ovens.(I am from a predominantly vegetarian culture, most of our meat dishes have only 10% meat in them, which I think is a good enough amount)
It's not making fun of the lifestyle, it's the the fact that people who partake in these things seemingly bring it up for no reason.
But honestly I can't remember the last time a vegan brought up being a vegan for no reason. While here on lemmy it seems every opportunity someone has to claim Linux superiority, no matter how weak, they have to let everyone know how "objectively better" they are.
Iβm vegan and I hate bringing it up out of any context. Obviously thereβs context here since weβre talking about it.
Hell I hate even saying it at a restaurant. Get weird looks ordering pizza without cheese when everyone else is getting mozz sticks and wings. Sure I could get a salad, but have you ever had salad at a pizza place? Fucking horrid. And only oil and vinegar to slide it down your throat? Ugh.
Not surprising considering just how much India is running on old hardware. I wouldn't be surprised if a big chunk of laptops there don't even support win11.
That is surprising perhaps govts push for adoption in Kerala and elsewhere is the reason.
I saw lot of folks in college switch to Linux, especially Ubuntu back in the day. It was considered synonymous with coding here. There was a time I could recognize that Ubuntu's Unity DE from anywhere before it was killed(and resurrected again recently).
Unity was my first desktop, around the 2010s. Around 2020, I came back to Linux with the intention to ditch Windows forever.
I switched completely to Linux somewhere around 2016, I guess. I gave Windows 11 a spin recently but it didn't leave too good of an impression.
how do you check indovidual countries?
You just have to scroll down. Over there, you'll see the countries parameters.
How on earth can people stand using Windows full time? Everything I'm on a Microsoft product I feel claustrophobic!
Stuff just works on windows, I have a proxmox box with some Linux vms to run containers and I've tried several times over the last 20 years to move to Linux on my main pc but there are just too many faffy bits.
I really dislike what windows has become, it's bloat ware that's getting worse and worse, but I begrudgingly use it as I can be productive, the moment I can be as productive in Linux I'm off of windows, but even simple things like drivers are often not as good, lots of commercial software has barebones or no Linux support, there are many different package managers (on one hand great) but some have permission problems due to sandboxing when you need something like your IDE to have access to the dotnet package, also as a developer building apps/libs for Linux is a nightmare.
For example if I make an app for Windows I build a single binary, same for mac os, for Linux it's the Wild west, varying versions of glibc various versions of gtk and that's the simpler stuff.
Anyway I REALLY WANT to like Linux and move away from windows to it, but every time I try its hours/days of hoop jumping before I just end up going back to windows and waiting for windows to annoy me so much I try again.
(just to be clear the annoyances I have with windows are it's constant ad/bloat ware, it's segregation of settings and duplication of things, it constantly updating and forcing you to turn off all their nonsense AGAIN)
Honestly, you get used to whatever you use and learn to avoid the faffy bits. I was like that with Windows back in the day, I just learned how to deal with it.
Now when I have to use a Windows box, I end up in a rage because of all the stupid shit I just used to avoid or knew how. Most of the useful bits are hidden from that Settings app that seems like it's designed for children.
So really, if you get down to it and pushed your way through the familiarity stage, you'd be fine. If you want something that doesn't give you much visible complexity for configuration, use Gnome, if you like to have every setting at your fingertips, use Plasma.
If you want your applications in a single bundle, use AppImage which is essentially what MacOS does.
And for development, being able to do things like containers/distrobox for your toolchains right on your dev box, without whatever the hell it is that Windows does these days is pretty sweet.
That's exactly it. I've been using Linux on my desktop for literally decades now and to me it just works.
Whereas using windows is an endless string of frustrations because everything is awkward and broken and unclear and hidden in places that make no sense.
Of course I manage because I've been around long enough, but I always wonder why people choose to use it.
I have the same experience as the author you just replied to. While some of what you are saying is true, I have never had everyday issues like these on windows. I switch to Linux once a year to change things up. Mint, arch, Debian... A few major issues I experience
login screen just freezes after standby
wifi not automatically recognizing what settings e.g. security protocol my work wifi uses
external monitors not working
updates just breaking my whole OS or not working
These are essentials, not something I can simply learn to live with or fix on the fly.
Would love to switch! I can get through work without proprietary software so that's not the issue.
Well, that sucks. I've used it for decades now and the last 8 or 10 years seems really low-maintenance.
Maybe try a Fedora spin like Nobara next time you get around to it. It's pretty tuned up and seems stable as hell. And fairly cutting edge.
Linux is a far more reliable operating system at the kernel level, which is why the vast majority of the Internet runs on Linux, and is very stable compared to anyone's personal computer (no matter O.S). It's also lighter weight at its core, which is a big plus for servers.
The thing about Linux desktops that tend to be finicky is interop with some proprietary software (e.g nvidia drivers) or desktop environments (gnome can freeze/crash if you like running bleeding edge before bugs are ironed out). Windows has issues too however, free software often literally doesn't run on Windows (requiring WSL, the same way games on Linux require wine), and the desktop environment is essentially indistinguishable from the base operating system. When you get a desktop environment crash on Windows, your system will BSOD and restart with no recourse, in Linux I can ssh into my still functioning computer and kill my DE, or drop to the TTL and do the same thing.
The end might not seem like a big deal for some people (who cares if you have to restart by a button press or kill your DE and login, they'll take a similar amount of time), but for someone like me where reliability is a big concern (as in, uptime for the half a dozen services/containers I run for people), this is great. People watching media off of jellyfin don't have to stop because of a DE bug, but on Windows a BSOD would stop their media (and within the last week we've had several BSODs on Windows PCs due to bugs relating things like adaptive sync or sometimes just unknown reasons).
For what it's worth I also game exclusively on Linux, vk3d, dxvk, and proton are godsends. Somethings don't work, developers who won't flip the switch for EAC (e.g Fortnite), but for me the games I play always worked. This will actually change soon, Vanguard is coming to League and that only works on Windows, but also probably not my last install of Windows (I tried W11 when it came out because I'm just curious about new tech), but I had to do a TPMBypassCheck despite having ftpm enabled in the BIOS, and afaict, at least from people I know with similar builds to me, if this happened then firmware TPM probably isn't being picked up by W11, and that means I need to buy a TPM module or drop to W10 to play League. Plus, vanguard is an intense rootkit with full 24/7 access to your O.S so I probably don't want that installed anyway, even if it happened to work on Linux. Just going to stick to SoD for now in my free time lol
I have a steamdeck and it's a brilliant bit of kit and if the whole Linux eco system had this same sort of cohesion and "out the box" working experience then it would probably be far more adopted.
Your point on stability is great, but for most people I would say they rarely see BSODs, windows is pretty stable too, I think a lot of the reasons that corporate servers use Linux over windows is more to do with licensing and permissions, I have seen plenty of windows server setups which works fine 24/7 so I don't think windows is any less stable, it's just more faff to setup things which are based on Linux conventions/features (i.e docker).
If Windows went back to how it was in window ls 7 where it didn't ram garbage down your throat every update I wouldn't have any problems with it.
Exactly this.
To both points actually.
I have a home server on debian and after a bit of setup woes(partly linux still being so reliant on CLI, partly my inexperience with it), it's been running super smoothly.
Have multiple dockers and it has been a joy.
And same for the steam deck, it just works. Some glitches here and there with controller support but that's just PC gaming.
But I installed it on my laptop as well and that was a shitshow. All biometrics wouldn't work, wifi kept dropping in and out, phantom touches now and then. Sure I could have done some cli technical wizardry but I gave up after trying to make it work half as smoothly on my workflow as in windows. And the windows 11 on it is utter garbage.
Partly this is manufacturing not having linux drivers available and partly it is linux just not having guis for essential functions. Hope steam is able to have enough of a push to get much needed consumer friendly guis for more system functions.
Itβs also lighter weight at its core, which is a big plus for servers.
Really? Busybox is more-or-less feature equivalent to a BSD userland (FreeBSD userland can be a bit more bloated, see the ls man page), but how many people have picked that up? Still using GNU coreutils, haha.
I saw many *BSD developers told Linux kernel developers to hang their work for a while and fix quality problems.
Uh, most apps are still for Windows. That's why so many people use it.
If you tell someone to use an alternative OS, but then they are left on their own to run alternative versions of apps that don't work the same, forced to give up features they are use to, or run dozens of different programs through Wine or Proton or emulation or virtualization or whatever, JUST BECAUSE "Microsoft bad", they're going to laugh at you and go right back to Windows.
It's taken Linux 30(?) years to make it to 4%, and a lot of that is recent because of games. It's still a niche platform.
Create an 'average user' friendly OS. Similar to ElementaryOS but more easier.
The GUI is elegant and its easy to download apps(applications).
For medium to heavy users, have a developer or advance mode.
Yeah, that is what Linux needs.
More segregation with yet another distro.
/s
Another distribution doesn't mean segregation. Diversity and compatibility is the strength of Linux.
Yes it comes with a small cost, but without it Linux wouldn't have the success it has today.
PopOS, Mint, Ubuntu. All have that mission.
Honestly I'm at a bit of a loss what people think needs to become simpler.
The people hating on it are either shills or people that tried linux 10 years ago and it wouldn't run their game so they'll talk shit. I've been over a year now full time linux and it plays all the games I have and have gotten. I'm really impressed with how much better it's gotten over the past few years.
I run pop os with AMD hardware on wayland.
I think the AMD hardware is a big part of things being a good experience.
I know it helps, but I do have an Intel/Nvidia machine hooked to my tv that my son uses and it's just as flawless so far.
As someone who has tried it on multiple devices in recent years, it still isn't smooth enough. And I've been assembling computers for 2 decades now. So not entirely technically illiterate, but just not adept in linux.
Definitely heavily reliant on use cases for how smooth the experience is. The server side is very well developed with years of linux leaning heavier on that side, but the splintering of frontend has a bit of an android effect.
Lots of really cool things but still some jank that you can't get rid of.
"recent years", yeah I agree, years ago it wasn't very good for a daily driver, especially if you want to game. I have no complaints now and it feels great to not be using a malware os.
Recent years of 2021, 22, 23, and 24.
What distro's and what issues did you have? I'm curious because of how good it has worked for me this past year. I wanted to switch to Linux for the past 15 years but there was always something that didn't work out enough that it was a deal breaker. Now, I have no issues with anything.
Copied from another comment I made
"
I have a home server on debian and after a bit of setup woes(partly linux still being so reliant on CLI, partly my inexperience with it), it's been running super smoothly.
Have multiple dockers and it has been a joy.
And same for the steam deck, it just works. Some glitches here and there with controller support but that's just PC gaming.
But I installed it on my laptop as well and that was a shitshow. All biometrics wouldn't work, wifi kept dropping in and out, phantom touches now and then. Sure I could have done some cli technical wizardry but I gave up after trying to make it work half as smoothly on my workflow as in windows. And the windows 11 on it is utter garbage.
Partly this is manufacturing not having linux drivers available and partly it is linux just not having guis for essential functions. Hope steam is able to have enough of a push to get much needed consumer friendly guis for more system functions.
"
I use both. Sadly, I have lots of software that doesn't work (or works pretty bad) on Linux. I love Linux, but there's no denying it can be frustrated, specially if your hardware doesn't support it, and that applies to too many people who has no saying in the hardware they use.
So in what world? Corporate world, science, CAD modelling...
There is a big misunderstanding in people's mind. LInux claims to run on pretty much every system (and it does ofc), but people take it as in every device and drivers is supposed to run flawlessly. I bought a 200 euros thinkpad knowing lenovo supported Linux directly, and I'm more satisfied with it than my 3000 euros macbook pro. In fact I havent opened my work one for 6 months+ lol
Mandatory I use arch btw
Current distros doesn't support many hardware platform, despite being very well funded. Compared to OpenBSD. (NetBSD is too much, right? and it is not really usable.)
Fedora: Only run on amd64, arm64, arm, ppc64le, s390x
https://www.openbsd.org/sparc64.html
The other architectures that OpenBSD supports have benefited because some kinds of bugs are exposed more often by the 64-bit big endian nature of UltraSPARC.
https://www.openbsd.org/want.html
It is important to spread sparc64 around the development community, since it is the most strict platform for detecting non-portable or buggy code.
I use a Windows 10 virtual machine for this purpose and run Linux on my bare metal hardware. And if I absolutely have to use Windows, I can boot the virtual machine, use Windows, and then shut it back down again until I need it again.
I mean, that's what I do, do you think that's feasible for everyone? No. Not everyone is willing to go through that much hassle.
CAD world and corporate PLM is supported on REL or SUSE by Siemens NX v12 and Teamcenter
Most people are not really using the OS. All they do is starting the webbrowser and that's it. They need input & sound from the OS, but that's it.
This is exactly how I feel. I can't relax into my work (and my work quality is impacted) when I have to use Windows.
The majority of people ... just aren't into OSes enough to care.
Windows does what they want it to do, comes with the laptop they bought and doesn't require much setup for them to start using it. Even a tech illiterate can setup a Windows in 15 minutes.
The more advanced users just know how to read settings, and disable all the parts they do not like. Windows can very much be molded to adapt to the users preference, no matter what the Linux fanatics claim. Most of their arguments come from an ignorant perspective that hasn't rang true for 10+ years.
Probably a good chunk of it but admittedly it helped me feel confident in using Linux as my daily driver on my desktop. Nothing drives adoption like being able to play video games.
this data is from web trackers, how many people visit the web on their steam deck?
Iβm part of that I just upgraded two of my pcβs to Linux.
It's so good that it counts as an upgrade.
Replacing Windows is always an upgrade
Can't disagree with that
I just installed WSL so I can learn Linux before I totally get rid of windows. If anyone has any suggestions for windows users learning Linux I will read them!
You could look at dual boot instead of WSL. YouTube has some pretty decent tutorial. Just make sure you take all tutorials with a pinch of salt; don't EVER run a command without looking it up first and checking out what it does; and try to find the most recent tutorials you can.
You may also have a local Linux club that can help you get started too π
Dual booting always fucks up my Windows installation. I have to fix it using Linux every time I wanna use Windows.
I assume you've got the boot partitions on the same drive? I've found it is easier when you have windows on a completely separate drive.
My only other suggestion would be to check out the Arch Wiki on dual booting - it's a goldmine for working out dual boot issues.
Not so easy when you're trying to do this on a laptop.
I would recommend you to try out Linux in a virtual machine and play around with it. You can watch this video if you don't know how to set this up. You can do much more with a VM than with WSL. It allows you to basically try any Linux Distribution, whereas WSL only supports a few distros. In a VM you also get a desktop environment by default, whereas WSL mostly restricts you to the terminal. Sure, you can run graphical apps in WSLg, but you still don't have a Linux desktop. Lastly, it's much easier to take a snapshot of a VM, and roll back in case you break something.
After you get comfortable in a VM, maybe try booting a Live USB of some Linux distribution. That way you will be able to try it out on your actual hardware.
After that, you can set up dual boot. That way, you can still keep your Windows installation, but also use Linux without any restrictions or limitations.
I hate that there is such a discrepancy between the amount of Linux server implementation and desktop usage. I'm hopeful for the future though, I've been noticing Linux has been getting more attention.
Linux dominates every computing sector except for the one it was originally created for
Very telling how Linux dominates every computing sector, except the one where the majority of users has to interact with directly.
Seems like Linux just needs a shell before the average user is able to interact with it in a consumer-friendly way.
I did my part.
This year I went back to 100% Linux for my computers. Iβve kept my primary PC with Windows just for games but with the advancements that Proton has made to WINE it hasnβt been necessary. The only thing I miss in being able to use Affinity Publisher and Designer on the computer and not just my tablet.
Same here. Thanks to Proton and SteamDeck, things have reached a point where I can find plenty of things to play without keeping a Windows license around.
Last time I did it was 2008 or 2009, the only game I played much was World of Warcraft and it ran great under WINE at the time. I donβt remember exactly why I switched back to windows back then but it was probably games. I know I needed it when I got my VR headset back in 2016 but itβs been a while since I sold that. I donβt know if Steam VR works on Linux or not, I want to have a headset again.
What's the chance that these are actual regular people doing this?
I downloaded Ubuntu recently. Don't hurt me
I stopped distro hopping around a decade ago, and just use default Ubuntu LTS releases. No shade from me.
I'm not going to pretend that Ubuntu is the coolest, hippest, trendiest distro around, but it's good enough, stake enough, and gosh darn it I'm just used to it.
Ubuntu is great because they have a huge community and an enterprise-class, fully supported product. No shade for using it. Itβs not my cup of tea, I often find myself wanting to be more on the bleeding edge, and Iβve found Endeavor (an Arch variant) to be amazingly capable.
But Iβve also been using Linux on and off since 97 and exclusove (at least in personal life) since like 2015.
Define "regular people".
Not tech savvy people. Your aunt.
So... I have a couple 40-core Xeon servers in my homelab. What do I need to do to trigger these higher? I can Argo Workflow jobs that spin up VMs and execute a webhook / etc to whatever is needed. Let's get that needle at least past the fisher price of OS's MacOS.
Yeah, fake those numbers! That'll definitely help the cause and not at all make anyone look desperate or stupid or cause the data to be thrown away!
Go you!
I'm cariousΒ how they monitorΒ linux desktop users
maybe by web agent ?Β
Yes
It doesn't mean much, it's just a metric people like around here. This number can grow and shrink just as easily with spoofed user agents strings. I think brave spoofs it and there's a chrome extension, there maybe a few more examples.
I wouldn't take it at face value is what I'm getting at. There's just no other way to measure because most distros don't collect telemetry and Firefox doesn't seem to make theirs public.
Websites choose to use their web analytics, then the site combines the web analytics looks at the web agent and guesses from there. I don't think the number has much meaning, it could vary widely if a Linux centric site opted in or if a privacy extension chooses to black/white list their stuff my default.
Hold on here how is Linux Desktop beating out chrome OS?
Don't get me wrong I am totally onboard with Linux winning over chrome OS. But I just don't believe it.
I can got to any local store right now and buy a Chrome OS computer. I can't say the same for Linux.
Not sure, but I'll say that if you use ChromeOS, you're much more likely to buy special hardware (Chromebooks) to run it on. Not many people download ChromeOS to run on their pre-existing computers. But you can just slap Linux on a toaster if you really want to. Even more, Valve's Steam Deck comes with Linux by default, and that's basically a desktop with touch and gamepad controls in mind.
I just wish the culture around open source gave more back to the people working on the software, even if it was just businesses. I think we'd see even more delevopment and support if the one guy making a critical driver for some obscure device that only power plants use, could take a vacation or quit his day job.
People around the world depend on open source being freely available and shareable. But if you're making millions of dollars a year, I think it's only fair to give some money to the people making your profit possible.
Not sure, but Iβll say that if you use ChromeOS, youβre much more likely to buy special hardware (Chromebooks) to run it on. Not many people download ChromeOS to run on their pre-existing computers.
That is my point. Normal people are not downloading any OS and installing it on their computers. They are going to the local big box store or online store and buying a computer and using whatever that OS is preinstalled. In my neck of the woods those options are Windows, OSX and Chrome OS. There is no Linux computers at your local big box store. And I am sure you could find a Linux computer online if you specifically searched for it but Amazon is going to put the Linux computer on page 500 if you search for "Laptop"
Valveβs Steam Deck comes with Linux by default
Yeah the Steam Deck is the only thing the came to my mind that mainstream people would get that would have Linux pre-installed. However I can't imagine it is the steam deck is selling anywhere near the numbers to what Chrome OS computers are selling and also these numbers are based on web browsing. Are people using their steam deck to browse the web? I have a Steam Deck and yes Gaming is amazing on it however if I am being honest the desktop experience is terrible I don't know how they manage to make the on screen keyboard suck so bad. I would prefer browsing the web on my phone over the Steam Deck. The only way I would browse the web on the Steam Deck is if it was fully setup with a Mouse and Keyboard and External monitor.
Granted this is all just based of my single experience and small corner of the world view point. Maybe Linux is poping off in other parts of the world like in India with a huge population base.
Oh no, I got you. I was kind of looking at if from another angle.
You normally can't buy a machine with desktop Linux pre-installed, but you can with ChromeOS. Despite that, Linux has a bigger market share. I think part of the reason why is specifically because ChromeOS is so limited and intrinsically tied to Google, that people who do things like install new OSes avoid it like the plague. Google's push to satisfiy shareholders and build walled gardens is the reason their desktop OS isn't being used.
I've installed Android in virtual machines and played with x86 builds on bare metal. I've installed Linux on Macbooks, desktops, servers, and handhelds. I've tried out BSD on network shares and other little devices. I've never done anything like that with ChromeOS. It holds zero appeal to me, despite being easily purchasable at a retail store.
The statistics seem to be based on User Agent. A lot of people"fake" their user agent to avoid fingerprinting and other things.
I myself used to do it when I wanted to download Windows 10 ISO from Microsoft.
If your UA said anything Windows you were forced to use download Microsoft USB Tool. If it said Linux you got a direct link to the ISO.
Isn't chrome os more or less US specific? Yes, I could buy a laptop with chrome os in central Europe if I looked for it, but is it widespread? Absolutely not. I don't know single person that have (or had) one.
That I don't know, I just know my territory in the US they are in every store that carries laptops.
I believe I have also seen them in Canada as well.
Linux has much better hardware support overall than Windows.
Yeah linux runs on 30+ year old hardware
And brand new $12k CPUs
I think I saw somewhere that Windows still has scheduled bugs with high core count CPUs so you can legitimately get better performance from Linux because the scheduler has already been optimized for high core count servers
Sure but at least from my experience if the desktop hardware doesn't support Windows we are already talking about a very obscure type of hardware that isn't going to be mass deployed to the general public that would affect this user agent statistic.
The thing with Windows is that you are dependent on the Manufacture to make drivers for the device. Windows supports nothing out of the box. You can see this if you install Windows stock on a device with no internet. Granted that's very uncommon but depending on the manufacture for support is a mixed bag sometimes.
Sure but that's a really really narrow scope. Hardware is designed to work with Windows first. It's unfortunate but it is what it is and saying hardware support is bad on windows is misleading.
I just know from experience with obscure hardware. You can't run Windows on your router and Windows 11 doesn't support serial connections.
Yeah, why isnβt ChromeOS rolled into Linux?
I know technically ChromeOS is running Linux under the hood but it has been so bastardized by Google that it looses the spirit of Linux that it shouldn't be consider the same thing. At least in my opinion.
Iβm not sure about that. Android isnβt Linux for those reasons, but ChromeOS is much, much closer to a regular GNU/Linux distro. Theyβre even switching to Wayland from what Iβve heard. π
I don't know but it might be inextricably linked to Googles content servers or reliant on services in such a way that it can't simply be stripped of the telemetry in the way VSCodium is for example.
ChromeOS uses a custom display server for the moment, but Chrome + is pretty similar. π€·π½ββοΈ
ChromeOS is moving to Wayland as their display server, to make it even more of a standard Linux install.
But is the desktop really the most relevant measurement? Wouldn't it be more relevant to talk about "primary" devices?
When I grew up, the desktop was what people used to connect with Internet and everything that comes with that. Hence, Linux on the desktop seemed to be relevant. Now, that is still relevant in relation to work and gaming, but for general use people use other devices.
So instead of "on the desktop" I think we should talk about "for work", "for gaming" and "for programming".
Exactly.
As usual, the geeks in this forum are completely out of touch with reality. I say that as a Linux user of decades.
Desktop stats matter less than ever because ordinary people do not buy desktop computers any more and will do so even less in the future.
But in this context, desktop includes laptops. People still buy those.
Less and less. At this point most internet users in the world have never been near a general-purpose computer of any kind.
The Linux phone has hit 0.01% oooof
I'm calling to arms linux desktop users to dip their toes into this space as we need all the support we can get
Well... in 2022, linux wasn't even categorized on mobile, and was grouped into "others". Now its marketshare is relevant enough to have its own category. It's something.
Thatβs actually a nice silver lining ;)
As much as I'd like to use a Linux phone, it's simply not feasible for almost everybody at the moment.
What do people user their phone for?
Private conversations
Banking
All kind of apps
Linux phones, at the moment, are way behind Android/iOS in terms of security and, since privacy requires security, also in privacy.
Even stock Android has so many more security features, that it's not even close. Verified boot, exploit mitigation, (working) app sandboxing and so on. Not even speaking of specialized projects like GrapheneOS.
Even if the app ecosystem was there and the OS mature, I'd never run my banking through a Linux phone at the moment.
Also its just hostile hardware. I can run Linux on any PC I own. Only a few phones support installing it and have bad drivers even if.
Yes, but in fairness: The same is true for iOS or GrapeneOS, though that's for valid reasons.
year of the linux desktop!!!!
I just built a new PC but I've still been booting up my old laptop from time to time to retrieve files/settings/etc. I'm going to take credit for this.
How do they know the percentage, does Linux send info back to somewhere?
your browser tells websites what os youre using
Oh yeah, another thing I've to do is find a browser that doesn't.
Yeah, I already use Firefox and the standard add ons, but I wasn't sure if it was one that gave out user data to websites.
by default it does not randomize the user agent string, because that would make some websites, (eg: download pages) behave weird
I moved back to Windows for the games years ago. But I'm never going to install a copy of Windows 11 because fuck that shit, and the next time I move to Linux, I suspect games won't be a problem.
Have they fixed Discord streaming yet?
Haven't had any troubles screensharing on wayland, so I guess?
I don't know if it's still needed or if discord updates to a newer version of electron that supports Wayland.
This should help if you need to support screen capture in x11 apps. XWayland video bridge
From Linux, I've screen-shared my desktop in the web application for some years without troubles. Not even need to install the app.
I question the methodology here. The same site lists Linux desktop share at 2% in my country specifically. It feels like if it was that high youβd see it on peopleβs laptops more in coffee shops and what notβ¦ but Iβve yet to see a single other person using Linux on the desktop.
I know most of that 4% is in India⦠but still feels like it should be more ubiquitous if the number is that high.
With 2%, you would roughly find someone using linux for every 50 computers you stumble upon. Maybe it's not as far off as you imagine. However, like someone already mentioned, the distribution isn't homogenous, and maybe there are concentrations of linux computers in some universities, businesses, etc.
Or maybe linux users don't go out as often as the average person, so you never get the chance to see them in coffee shops lol. If the other linux users are like me, that's exactly the case...
2% is still very low, and thats not necessarily spread evenly throughout different areas/communities.
Iβve got LXCβs running on my Proxmox host and been playing or working with Linux for 25 years, but on my desktop Iβve always run Windows. Linux is great right up until it isnβt and then I spend more time than Iβd like troubleshooting it. On my desktop I just want things to work and Windows does that. I hate the bloatware, spyware and the nagging to switch to Edge, but everything I run, runs, including games with anti-cheat. Iβm sure I could get Linux to a similar state, but it would take a lot more effort.
o
The freedom of choice is wonderful, isnt it ?
We are all free, to make our own decisions, as free as to live with the consequencies out of that^^
I've never understood how this is good for Linux. Why is having more users so important?
More users means there is more interest from private companies to reach these users and to port their software/products to Linux.
Ie Adobe, Games, AutoCAD Suit, etc.
But why do we want more proprietary software running on Linux? Wouldn't we be recreating the same situation that Windows has?
Edit: Why downvote me instead of replying with a reason why I'm "wrong" or discussing further? Is Lemmy turning into Reddit already?
There's also more chances of FOSS being developed for Linux if more people use it. FOSS is better the more popular it gets.
This seems like wishful thinking to me. Is there any data that supports that with more users comes more FOSS developers?
I'm not sure you need data to understand that if more people use a product, there's a greater chance someone will develop FOSS for it, as FOSS developers tend to also be users.
Bigger platforms attract more devs.
The BSDs donβt have the dev resources of Linux simply because Linux has a much larger install base.
The BSDs donβt have the dev resources of Linux simply because Linux has a much larger install base.
Really?
I don't think OpenBSD is as funded as Debian but it could maintain software like OpenSSH (even the portable version for Linux and Windows); LibreSSL (still not much used, but funded because of this), OpenSMTPD.
But OpenBSD can maintain its ports which in my opinion is relatively large (no update for -release, sorry :) ). And base. For so many hardware platform. Even VAX until 6.9
Yeah, really. OpenBSD punches above its weight. There are many things they would like todo, but donβt have the resources.
But why do we want more proprietary software running on Linux?
You're right, there's downsides for the FOSS community, but it's much better for many individuals.
Usability, accessibility and privacy for a user is better when any proprietary software, that they cannot avoid, can at least run relatively sandboxed inside an OS they have control over.
Wouldn't we be recreating the same situation that Windows has?
Good point, but thankfully, an open OS mitigates these issues a great deal.
Proprietary software is one of the last anchors holding people to Windows or macOS.
Ideally, people would switch to FOSS alternatives on a FOSS OS, but proprietary software on top of a FOSS OS is better than FOSS software on a proprietary OS.
Also, people are going to charge for software in some form or fashion. The economic model would need to change in order to allow people to develop software without any economic motives.
The difference is that, with a base FOSS OS, you're not locked in to an flavor you don't like. Dislike the way Ubuntu is headed? Switch to Debian, Pop, or Mint and use the same exact programs you're used to. If you dislike Windows 11, you've only got a few years before you're forced to switch to it. Makes it much easier for them to force shitty decisions.
More adoption of Linux also means more incentive for FOSS projects to support it. Yes, it also means more proprietary software, but the truth is that most people don't care what kind of software they use as long as it works for them. At least Linux can't become beholden to the demands of that software.
People don't like frequently dual-booting or switching operating systems. If someone needs a specific program for work, and that program only works on windows, chances are they will only use windows.
Many people have to use proprietary software at work, which means most computers for work have to run windows. If linux can get enough marketshare to get support for the necessary programs that people have to use, that will free them up to not use windows at all.
But why do we want more proprietary software running on Linux?
Because it's what reality looks like right now. Everything FOSS would be ideal, but it's probably not going to happen for a looooong time. In the meantime more software is always good, and it also means more FOSS software you can choose as an alternative.
Wouldn't we be recreating the same situation that Windows has?
No, because the base OS is still open, so you have choices that you don't have under Windows.
Why downvote me instead of replying with a reason why I'm "wrong" or discussing further?
Tbh it sounds a bit disingenuous when you say that you don't understand such a basic thing. It should be pretty obvious that more users means more interest from devs+companies and more support for the platform.
You've never understood how support works? It doesn't matter that it's harder to find apps that work on Linux than windows and Mac? It matters less to me than most people but it definitely still matters
I would certainly benefit if more hardware supported Linux out-of-the-box.
Many people will benefit if that one key application they need is supported on Linux.
We all benefit from the paid developers working on Linux. The number of such people are linked to the profitability of Linux for companies which is a function of popularity.
Your point is a very important one. The numbers have to come up so that manufacturers notice. It might make the difference in a laptop designer choosing a well-Linux-supported wifi chip, instead of a shitty, closed chipset like Broadcom. When the price-per-unit difference is pennies, knowing that you're potentially losing some thousands of customers in exchange for saving a few cents per unit can make the difference in how you choose.
It also matters in user choice in the workplace. The more normalized Linux is, the more likely there will be skills in IT support, more mass-management tools, and more willingness to allow employees to choose their OS.
But where it really matters is in standards. Diversity puts pressure on software developers to use standardized and open data exchange standards. I can't emphasize enough how important diversity in OSes is to driving creation of, and conformance to, standards, and how much of an anathema to standards monocultures are.
Even within OSS this is true: github and git have become monocultures; they aren't standards, they're tools developers are forced to use if they want to interact with the wider development world in any meaningful way. They're not bad; git became dominant largely because github used to be so fantastically better than anything else available at the time; but now, their very dominance stiffles diversity and innovation. Want to try the rather exciting pijul, the patch-based spiritual successor to darcs? Fuck you, because you won't be able to collaborate with anyone, and you repos won't work with any proglang module systems like cargo or Go modules, because it isn't git[1]. Monocultures are bad, whether they're evil corporation software, or FOSS.
Higher Linux use increases diversity, encourages data format standards, and creates a healthier ecosystem. That's why these numbers are important.
[1] Go and Rust's cargo support more VCSes than git, but they could easily not, and I'm sure the maintainer's of the vcs code wish they could drop support for some of the long tails - and everything that isn't git is on the long tail at this point. There are attempts at creating some standards around this; ActivityPub has tossed around ideas, forgefriends has been trying for a breakthrough for years - none of them address the root issue of how tools can access sourcecode efficiently in a way abstracted from the underlying vcs. Any such tool currently must have some bespoke code to speak the network language of the vcs, for every vcs. And since git is the most popular, when faced with the daunting task of supporting N vcses, when N-1 of them are in toto used by a small percent of users, it's just easier to support only git.
Cool. Then many more people would switch from Linux to BSDs instead. Which is better.
Of course only correct selection is TempleOS.
I don't think its power is comparable to research unix :)
Dumb question but what's a BSD? What's the difference?
It's another libre operating system that is not GNU/linux
wjy would it be better
Its more of a niche. You probably won't have the huge support you have on gnu/Linux nowadays
"gnu/Linux nowadays" is unusable on old hardware (except distros like Alpine) I think?
There are a bunch of distros focused on old hardware compatibility. I often install Linux on 32 bit laptops from around 2008 and they work perfectly
It's not necessarily better, some things are a personal preference. Though some might be able to list some technical pros and cons.
Some things I appreciate are:
base systems and packages are completely separate. Packages and their configuration goes in /usr/local/ No where else. (Thought they might write to /var/ )
bsd init, not systemd. Feels more home to me as a late 90s slackware user.
first class zfs support. Linux has caught up lately, especially now that there is a shared zfs codebase for both Linux and FreeBSD. When I switched to FreeBSD on my home server ~10 years ago that wasn't the case.
That research is much easier than figuring out what is computer's "stack" without using my first language!
Dude I'm a beginner struggling to learn Linux because there are so many options, so few good explanations, and people like you only want to patronize me
I just want a tldr
so few good explanations
What a lack of documentation. On BSDs we didn't suffer that.
I just want a tldr
BSD is an operating system. It diverged into FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD.
Don't panic, thats just me running it on PC, laptop, worklaptop, pinenote, pinephone, steamdeck and in multiple VMs for experimentation. (and don't forget my randomized fingerprinting setup in the browser)
Was gonna ask if this stat included the Steam Deck, as that's also accounting for the vast majority of Linux gaming numbers. Whether it does include the Deck or not, it's a nice rise, but all the better if it doesn't include the Deck. I wonder if the popularity of using Linux on the Raspberry Pi is helping too.
How many people are reading blogs on their steam decks though? I don't think it's having much of an effect for statcounter
You never know, given the Deck has desktop mode. That said, still is a good thing with or without the Deck bolstering the numbers.
How is the PineNote coming along?
I love the idea of the Pinenote, but could never afford one.
This was my question too
Not great tbh. But I made it work for my usecase somewhat.
As a huge tinkerer I like it over the Remarkable2 which I had before and which was a huge pain to customize.
But I wouldn't recommend it to normal people.
How are you randomising your fingerprint? I'm very interested
Edit: ah, in your browser
It rubs the lotion on it's skin.
Hoe is the pinenote? I have been debating on buying one
https://lemmy.world/comment/8047127
Hardware is pretty solid, software is extremely lacking.
Only buy one if you want to develop for it.
Thanks, I hoped the software would have been a bit more developed by now. I don't have the time to mess about with it sadly
tell me more about your browser setup.
how do you randomize the fingerprint?
Me, who could do everything I have set up with one RPi: FIVE? Guess imma get a third Pi
What do you use for randomized fingerprinting?
With MS enshitifying Windows at an ever increasing pace and the hard work of open source developers, volunteers, advocates, to make Linux better and more approachable, I won't be surprised at all to see that percentage move up.
"You mean its free and doesn't try to sell me other products the whole time I'm using it?"
There is the psychological factor that Windows behaves more like malware with their forced full screen overlays to shove the Edge into your ass. Over and over again. Microsoft doesn't take No for an answer like an abusive partner.
You put words to the feeling I get whenever I turn on my work PC. It has relatively little to do with my actual work. It's the dread of the psychological abuse of everything asking me to update, upgrade, and look at how cool our AI is, try all of our other products, share your opinion, etc. etc. etc. I would be twice as productive if they let me BYOOS (bring your own OS) and if my day to day tools were Linux compatible. There are best practices for this kind of thing, but many of the most "reputable" tech companies willingly disregard them in favor of mind games and dark psychology.
damn, you might get me back on Windows if it feel like that π₯΄
And Microsoft keeps enshitifying Windows because they know they can get away with it. So many businesses are backed into a corner and have essential parts of their business that are only compatible with Microsoft's tech. They can't switch, they won't even entertain the idea (much less the time/energy required to test it out). The folks at Microsoft know they've won. I won't be surprised when they make Windows 12's compatibility even more egregious than 11's.
Sorry guys, this is just me with a basement full of computers running Linux.
Sorry I've been reinstalling my computer about once a week.
Same but with local repos and cached debs so they don't count
We must all do what we can to BECOME the Mirror.
NixOS user spotted!
I'm a bit more of a masochist, Archlinux. I am beginning to see the appeal of having something like NixOS though.
Definitely try it, using NixOS after the "horrors" of Arch feels much more secure. Your system is basically unbreakable, not unintentionally, at least.
found the power user!
2024 : The year of the Linux desktop
GUYS, IT'S HAPPENING
This time for sure!!!
MY BODY IS READY
10th year in a row
I think at 25 in a row it's a silver jubilee.
Linux also surpassed 10% in my country, Greece (10.72%).
I prepared a couple of old laptops I had around recently, to gift to my niece and cousin, and I put Debian with XFce in both of them. Worked great. And I think that's why Linux is big in Greece. Consider that when someone buys a car here, they use it until the end of its life. Very rarely they sell cars to get something new. The average car is 15 years old in Greece. I think that's the deal with old laptops and computers too: people try to extend the lives of their machines.
how do you check for individual countries?
Follow the link in the post and click on "edit chart data".. You can select time frame, countries, which data to show, etc.
there's a choice on the bottom of the page somewhere
Didn't we hit 3% in January this year? At this rate well reach 350% by EOY!
I know it's a joke, but where did you get that number? If it's at 3% in January and 4% in February. Either it's a flat 1% increase/month or an increase of 33%. How else can it be interpreted?
From the dephs of my ass. But basically it's been around 2% for decades, then it went from 3 to 4% in a matter of months, so it's accelerating exponentially very quickly!
You can do funny things with statistics if you just use the wrong fitness function.
oh ok
Fitness function, nice. Will remember that. Ty :D
Exponential increase that has been slow for decades, but is just now starting to ramp up?
Sure, but the question was how they got to the number. If it was a random big number, then fine, that answers my question, but I was just wondering if there was a reason behind it. Usually when people make that joke they just purposefully misinterpret the trend which is why I went for the 1% or 33%
Relevant XKCD
You can download a csv of the market share from 2009, it shows it reached 3% for the first time in jun 2023, there might be some kind of rapid growth in popularity here.
on an unrelated note, people who squeeze in what os they use to every conversation also rises to 4%.
Just wait for VeganOS to drop.
Is equating Linux users to vegans a thing? I came to the conclusion (I thought) on my own...but now reading this here I'm questioning that conclusion
"how do you know someone [does crossfit, is vegan, uses linux]"
"They'll tell you"
It's a fairly common joke and seems to get stapled onto any lifestyle choice that someone likes to talk about
Linux users are like vegetarians Arch users like vegans. One is a dietary choice, the other a cult.
It's a big thing because it's much easier to make fun of an objectively better lifestyle choice (avoiding meat or Microsoft etc.) than it is to try and argue against it. Especially because that would force people to question their own behaviour and that can be difficult and hurtful.
nah it's just a reputation because people who make these choices usually try to spread the word, but sometimes it becomes perceived as obnoxious. vegans just got a bad reputation because it was relatively early internet days, i haven't seen vegans being as obnoxious as weed smokers, for example.
now, weed smoking is objectively not a better lifestyle choice but i think they're much much worse than vegans ever were. has nothing to do with arguing against things, not that I would argue against veganism anyway; i admire the choice.
hey I try to be vegan for software, but a moderate and balanced diet is the objectively better lifestyle choice than forcing beans and grass down your throat, and producing enough methane to power 2 dutch ovens.(I am from a predominantly vegetarian culture, most of our meat dishes have only 10% meat in them, which I think is a good enough amount)
It's not making fun of the lifestyle, it's the the fact that people who partake in these things seemingly bring it up for no reason.
But honestly I can't remember the last time a vegan brought up being a vegan for no reason. While here on lemmy it seems every opportunity someone has to claim Linux superiority, no matter how weak, they have to let everyone know how "objectively better" they are.
Iβm vegan and I hate bringing it up out of any context. Obviously thereβs context here since weβre talking about it.
Hell I hate even saying it at a restaurant. Get weird looks ordering pizza without cheese when everyone else is getting mozz sticks and wings. Sure I could get a salad, but have you ever had salad at a pizza place? Fucking horrid. And only oil and vinegar to slide it down your throat? Ugh.
15.21% in India πΏ
Not surprising considering just how much India is running on old hardware. I wouldn't be surprised if a big chunk of laptops there don't even support win11.
That is surprising perhaps govts push for adoption in Kerala and elsewhere is the reason.
Kerala?
https://www.zdnet.com/article/india-slowly-dumping-windows-for-linux/
An article from 2007 about Kerala and Tamil Nadu.
Wow, OK. I half expected a linux distro called Kerala. Hopefully this stance spreads!
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
did you just creative commons kerala? is that even how that works. i cant just run a pc program to creative commons every possible phrase
That's how licenses work. They protect every single word and if somebody uses that word henceforth, they breach the license.
CC BY-NC-SA 4.0
Yup
I saw lot of folks in college switch to Linux, especially Ubuntu back in the day. It was considered synonymous with coding here. There was a time I could recognize that Ubuntu's Unity DE from anywhere before it was killed(and resurrected again recently).
Unity was my first desktop, around the 2010s. Around 2020, I came back to Linux with the intention to ditch Windows forever.
I switched completely to Linux somewhere around 2016, I guess. I gave Windows 11 a spin recently but it didn't leave too good of an impression.
how do you check indovidual countries?
You just have to scroll down. Over there, you'll see the countries parameters.
How on earth can people stand using Windows full time? Everything I'm on a Microsoft product I feel claustrophobic!
Stuff just works on windows, I have a proxmox box with some Linux vms to run containers and I've tried several times over the last 20 years to move to Linux on my main pc but there are just too many faffy bits.
I really dislike what windows has become, it's bloat ware that's getting worse and worse, but I begrudgingly use it as I can be productive, the moment I can be as productive in Linux I'm off of windows, but even simple things like drivers are often not as good, lots of commercial software has barebones or no Linux support, there are many different package managers (on one hand great) but some have permission problems due to sandboxing when you need something like your IDE to have access to the dotnet package, also as a developer building apps/libs for Linux is a nightmare.
For example if I make an app for Windows I build a single binary, same for mac os, for Linux it's the Wild west, varying versions of glibc various versions of gtk and that's the simpler stuff.
Anyway I REALLY WANT to like Linux and move away from windows to it, but every time I try its hours/days of hoop jumping before I just end up going back to windows and waiting for windows to annoy me so much I try again.
(just to be clear the annoyances I have with windows are it's constant ad/bloat ware, it's segregation of settings and duplication of things, it constantly updating and forcing you to turn off all their nonsense AGAIN)
Honestly, you get used to whatever you use and learn to avoid the faffy bits. I was like that with Windows back in the day, I just learned how to deal with it.
Now when I have to use a Windows box, I end up in a rage because of all the stupid shit I just used to avoid or knew how. Most of the useful bits are hidden from that Settings app that seems like it's designed for children.
So really, if you get down to it and pushed your way through the familiarity stage, you'd be fine. If you want something that doesn't give you much visible complexity for configuration, use Gnome, if you like to have every setting at your fingertips, use Plasma.
If you want your applications in a single bundle, use AppImage which is essentially what MacOS does.
And for development, being able to do things like containers/distrobox for your toolchains right on your dev box, without whatever the hell it is that Windows does these days is pretty sweet.
That's exactly it. I've been using Linux on my desktop for literally decades now and to me it just works.
Whereas using windows is an endless string of frustrations because everything is awkward and broken and unclear and hidden in places that make no sense.
Of course I manage because I've been around long enough, but I always wonder why people choose to use it.
I have the same experience as the author you just replied to. While some of what you are saying is true, I have never had everyday issues like these on windows. I switch to Linux once a year to change things up. Mint, arch, Debian... A few major issues I experience
These are essentials, not something I can simply learn to live with or fix on the fly.
Would love to switch! I can get through work without proprietary software so that's not the issue.
Well, that sucks. I've used it for decades now and the last 8 or 10 years seems really low-maintenance.
Maybe try a Fedora spin like Nobara next time you get around to it. It's pretty tuned up and seems stable as hell. And fairly cutting edge.
Linux is a far more reliable operating system at the kernel level, which is why the vast majority of the Internet runs on Linux, and is very stable compared to anyone's personal computer (no matter O.S). It's also lighter weight at its core, which is a big plus for servers.
The thing about Linux desktops that tend to be finicky is interop with some proprietary software (e.g nvidia drivers) or desktop environments (gnome can freeze/crash if you like running bleeding edge before bugs are ironed out). Windows has issues too however, free software often literally doesn't run on Windows (requiring WSL, the same way games on Linux require wine), and the desktop environment is essentially indistinguishable from the base operating system. When you get a desktop environment crash on Windows, your system will BSOD and restart with no recourse, in Linux I can ssh into my still functioning computer and kill my DE, or drop to the TTL and do the same thing.
The end might not seem like a big deal for some people (who cares if you have to restart by a button press or kill your DE and login, they'll take a similar amount of time), but for someone like me where reliability is a big concern (as in, uptime for the half a dozen services/containers I run for people), this is great. People watching media off of jellyfin don't have to stop because of a DE bug, but on Windows a BSOD would stop their media (and within the last week we've had several BSODs on Windows PCs due to bugs relating things like adaptive sync or sometimes just unknown reasons).
For what it's worth I also game exclusively on Linux, vk3d, dxvk, and proton are godsends. Somethings don't work, developers who won't flip the switch for EAC (e.g Fortnite), but for me the games I play always worked. This will actually change soon, Vanguard is coming to League and that only works on Windows, but also probably not my last install of Windows (I tried W11 when it came out because I'm just curious about new tech), but I had to do a TPMBypassCheck despite having ftpm enabled in the BIOS, and afaict, at least from people I know with similar builds to me, if this happened then firmware TPM probably isn't being picked up by W11, and that means I need to buy a TPM module or drop to W10 to play League. Plus, vanguard is an intense rootkit with full 24/7 access to your O.S so I probably don't want that installed anyway, even if it happened to work on Linux. Just going to stick to SoD for now in my free time lol
I have a steamdeck and it's a brilliant bit of kit and if the whole Linux eco system had this same sort of cohesion and "out the box" working experience then it would probably be far more adopted.
Your point on stability is great, but for most people I would say they rarely see BSODs, windows is pretty stable too, I think a lot of the reasons that corporate servers use Linux over windows is more to do with licensing and permissions, I have seen plenty of windows server setups which works fine 24/7 so I don't think windows is any less stable, it's just more faff to setup things which are based on Linux conventions/features (i.e docker).
If Windows went back to how it was in window ls 7 where it didn't ram garbage down your throat every update I wouldn't have any problems with it.
Exactly this. To both points actually. I have a home server on debian and after a bit of setup woes(partly linux still being so reliant on CLI, partly my inexperience with it), it's been running super smoothly. Have multiple dockers and it has been a joy. And same for the steam deck, it just works. Some glitches here and there with controller support but that's just PC gaming. But I installed it on my laptop as well and that was a shitshow. All biometrics wouldn't work, wifi kept dropping in and out, phantom touches now and then. Sure I could have done some cli technical wizardry but I gave up after trying to make it work half as smoothly on my workflow as in windows. And the windows 11 on it is utter garbage. Partly this is manufacturing not having linux drivers available and partly it is linux just not having guis for essential functions. Hope steam is able to have enough of a push to get much needed consumer friendly guis for more system functions.
Really? Busybox is more-or-less feature equivalent to a BSD userland (FreeBSD userland can be a bit more bloated, see the ls man page), but how many people have picked that up? Still using GNU coreutils, haha.
I saw many *BSD developers told Linux kernel developers to hang their work for a while and fix quality problems.
Uh, most apps are still for Windows. That's why so many people use it.
If you tell someone to use an alternative OS, but then they are left on their own to run alternative versions of apps that don't work the same, forced to give up features they are use to, or run dozens of different programs through Wine or Proton or emulation or virtualization or whatever, JUST BECAUSE "Microsoft bad", they're going to laugh at you and go right back to Windows.
It's taken Linux 30(?) years to make it to 4%, and a lot of that is recent because of games. It's still a niche platform.
Create an 'average user' friendly OS. Similar to ElementaryOS but more easier.
The GUI is elegant and its easy to download apps(applications).
For medium to heavy users, have a developer or advance mode.
Yeah, that is what Linux needs.
More segregation with yet another distro.
/s
Another distribution doesn't mean segregation. Diversity and compatibility is the strength of Linux.
Yes it comes with a small cost, but without it Linux wouldn't have the success it has today.
PopOS, Mint, Ubuntu. All have that mission.
Honestly I'm at a bit of a loss what people think needs to become simpler.
The people hating on it are either shills or people that tried linux 10 years ago and it wouldn't run their game so they'll talk shit. I've been over a year now full time linux and it plays all the games I have and have gotten. I'm really impressed with how much better it's gotten over the past few years.
I run pop os with AMD hardware on wayland.
I think the AMD hardware is a big part of things being a good experience.
I know it helps, but I do have an Intel/Nvidia machine hooked to my tv that my son uses and it's just as flawless so far.
As someone who has tried it on multiple devices in recent years, it still isn't smooth enough. And I've been assembling computers for 2 decades now. So not entirely technically illiterate, but just not adept in linux. Definitely heavily reliant on use cases for how smooth the experience is. The server side is very well developed with years of linux leaning heavier on that side, but the splintering of frontend has a bit of an android effect. Lots of really cool things but still some jank that you can't get rid of.
"recent years", yeah I agree, years ago it wasn't very good for a daily driver, especially if you want to game. I have no complaints now and it feels great to not be using a malware os.
Recent years of 2021, 22, 23, and 24.
What distro's and what issues did you have? I'm curious because of how good it has worked for me this past year. I wanted to switch to Linux for the past 15 years but there was always something that didn't work out enough that it was a deal breaker. Now, I have no issues with anything.
Copied from another comment I made
" I have a home server on debian and after a bit of setup woes(partly linux still being so reliant on CLI, partly my inexperience with it), it's been running super smoothly. Have multiple dockers and it has been a joy. And same for the steam deck, it just works. Some glitches here and there with controller support but that's just PC gaming. But I installed it on my laptop as well and that was a shitshow. All biometrics wouldn't work, wifi kept dropping in and out, phantom touches now and then. Sure I could have done some cli technical wizardry but I gave up after trying to make it work half as smoothly on my workflow as in windows. And the windows 11 on it is utter garbage. Partly this is manufacturing not having linux drivers available and partly it is linux just not having guis for essential functions. Hope steam is able to have enough of a push to get much needed consumer friendly guis for more system functions. "
I use both. Sadly, I have lots of software that doesn't work (or works pretty bad) on Linux. I love Linux, but there's no denying it can be frustrated, specially if your hardware doesn't support it, and that applies to too many people who has no saying in the hardware they use.
So in what world? Corporate world, science, CAD modelling...
There is a big misunderstanding in people's mind. LInux claims to run on pretty much every system (and it does ofc), but people take it as in every device and drivers is supposed to run flawlessly. I bought a 200 euros thinkpad knowing lenovo supported Linux directly, and I'm more satisfied with it than my 3000 euros macbook pro. In fact I havent opened my work one for 6 months+ lol
Mandatory I use arch btw
Current distros doesn't support many hardware platform, despite being very well funded. Compared to OpenBSD. (NetBSD is too much, right? and it is not really usable.)
Fedora: Only run on amd64, arm64, arm, ppc64le, s390x
Debian: i386, amd64, arm64, arm, ppc64le, mips64le, s390x, riscv64 (testing).
Alpine: same as Debian but no MIPS support
Add your own here.
There isn't sparc64 support at all!
OpenBSD: alpha, amd64, arm64, armv7, hppa, i386, landisk, loongson, luna88k, macppc, octeon, powerpc64, riscv64, sparc64 (all equally supported except Alpha)
(VAX is discontinued after 6.9)
I use a Windows 10 virtual machine for this purpose and run Linux on my bare metal hardware. And if I absolutely have to use Windows, I can boot the virtual machine, use Windows, and then shut it back down again until I need it again.
I mean, that's what I do, do you think that's feasible for everyone? No. Not everyone is willing to go through that much hassle.
CAD world and corporate PLM is supported on REL or SUSE by Siemens NX v12 and Teamcenter
Most people are not really using the OS. All they do is starting the webbrowser and that's it. They need input & sound from the OS, but that's it.
This is exactly how I feel. I can't relax into my work (and my work quality is impacted) when I have to use Windows.
The majority of people ... just aren't into OSes enough to care.
Windows does what they want it to do, comes with the laptop they bought and doesn't require much setup for them to start using it. Even a tech illiterate can setup a Windows in 15 minutes.
The more advanced users just know how to read settings, and disable all the parts they do not like. Windows can very much be molded to adapt to the users preference, no matter what the Linux fanatics claim. Most of their arguments come from an ignorant perspective that hasn't rang true for 10+ years.
Steam decks ?
Probably a good chunk of it but admittedly it helped me feel confident in using Linux as my daily driver on my desktop. Nothing drives adoption like being able to play video games.
this data is from web trackers, how many people visit the web on their steam deck?
Finally the year of GNU/Linux desktop πΎ
Haven't we celebrated 3% just a few months ago?
Iβm part of that I just upgraded two of my pcβs to Linux.
It's so good that it counts as an upgrade.
Replacing Windows is always an upgrade
Can't disagree with that
I just installed WSL so I can learn Linux before I totally get rid of windows. If anyone has any suggestions for windows users learning Linux I will read them!
You could look at dual boot instead of WSL. YouTube has some pretty decent tutorial. Just make sure you take all tutorials with a pinch of salt; don't EVER run a command without looking it up first and checking out what it does; and try to find the most recent tutorials you can.
You may also have a local Linux club that can help you get started too π
Dual booting always fucks up my Windows installation. I have to fix it using Linux every time I wanna use Windows.
I assume you've got the boot partitions on the same drive? I've found it is easier when you have windows on a completely separate drive.
My only other suggestion would be to check out the Arch Wiki on dual booting - it's a goldmine for working out dual boot issues.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dual\_boot\_with\_Windows
Not so easy when you're trying to do this on a laptop.
I would recommend you to try out Linux in a virtual machine and play around with it. You can watch this video if you don't know how to set this up. You can do much more with a VM than with WSL. It allows you to basically try any Linux Distribution, whereas WSL only supports a few distros. In a VM you also get a desktop environment by default, whereas WSL mostly restricts you to the terminal. Sure, you can run graphical apps in WSLg, but you still don't have a Linux desktop. Lastly, it's much easier to take a snapshot of a VM, and roll back in case you break something.
After you get comfortable in a VM, maybe try booting a Live USB of some Linux distribution. That way you will be able to try it out on your actual hardware.
After that, you can set up dual boot. That way, you can still keep your Windows installation, but also use Linux without any restrictions or limitations.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
this video
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
It's already at 112% on my desktop.
I use Debian btw
I hate that there is such a discrepancy between the amount of Linux server implementation and desktop usage. I'm hopeful for the future though, I've been noticing Linux has been getting more attention.
Linux dominates every computing sector except for the one it was originally created for
Very telling how Linux dominates every computing sector, except the one where the majority of users has to interact with directly.
Seems like Linux just needs a shell before the average user is able to interact with it in a consumer-friendly way.
I did my part.
This year I went back to 100% Linux for my computers. Iβve kept my primary PC with Windows just for games but with the advancements that Proton has made to WINE it hasnβt been necessary. The only thing I miss in being able to use Affinity Publisher and Designer on the computer and not just my tablet.
Same here. Thanks to Proton and SteamDeck, things have reached a point where I can find plenty of things to play without keeping a Windows license around.
Last time I did it was 2008 or 2009, the only game I played much was World of Warcraft and it ran great under WINE at the time. I donβt remember exactly why I switched back to windows back then but it was probably games. I know I needed it when I got my VR headset back in 2016 but itβs been a while since I sold that. I donβt know if Steam VR works on Linux or not, I want to have a headset again.
Have you tried setting up Affinity Suite with the community guide?
Where's the party?
I'm waddling over!
What's the chance that these are actual regular people doing this?
I downloaded Ubuntu recently. Don't hurt me
I stopped distro hopping around a decade ago, and just use default Ubuntu LTS releases. No shade from me.
I'm not going to pretend that Ubuntu is the coolest, hippest, trendiest distro around, but it's good enough, stake enough, and gosh darn it I'm just used to it.
Ubuntu is great because they have a huge community and an enterprise-class, fully supported product. No shade for using it. Itβs not my cup of tea, I often find myself wanting to be more on the bleeding edge, and Iβve found Endeavor (an Arch variant) to be amazingly capable.
But Iβve also been using Linux on and off since 97 and exclusove (at least in personal life) since like 2015.
Define "regular people".
Not tech savvy people. Your aunt.
So... I have a couple 40-core Xeon servers in my homelab. What do I need to do to trigger these higher? I can Argo Workflow jobs that spin up VMs and execute a webhook / etc to whatever is needed. Let's get that needle at least past the fisher price of OS's MacOS.
Yeah, fake those numbers! That'll definitely help the cause and not at all make anyone look desperate or stupid or cause the data to be thrown away!
Go you!
I'm cariousΒ how they monitorΒ linux desktop users maybe by web agent ?Β
Yes
It doesn't mean much, it's just a metric people like around here. This number can grow and shrink just as easily with spoofed user agents strings. I think brave spoofs it and there's a chrome extension, there maybe a few more examples.
I wouldn't take it at face value is what I'm getting at. There's just no other way to measure because most distros don't collect telemetry and Firefox doesn't seem to make theirs public.
Websites choose to use their web analytics, then the site combines the web analytics looks at the web agent and guesses from there. I don't think the number has much meaning, it could vary widely if a Linux centric site opted in or if a privacy extension chooses to black/white list their stuff my default.
Hold on here how is Linux Desktop beating out chrome OS? Don't get me wrong I am totally onboard with Linux winning over chrome OS. But I just don't believe it.
I can got to any local store right now and buy a Chrome OS computer. I can't say the same for Linux.
Not sure, but I'll say that if you use ChromeOS, you're much more likely to buy special hardware (Chromebooks) to run it on. Not many people download ChromeOS to run on their pre-existing computers. But you can just slap Linux on a toaster if you really want to. Even more, Valve's Steam Deck comes with Linux by default, and that's basically a desktop with touch and gamepad controls in mind.
I just wish the culture around open source gave more back to the people working on the software, even if it was just businesses. I think we'd see even more delevopment and support if the one guy making a critical driver for some obscure device that only power plants use, could take a vacation or quit his day job.
People around the world depend on open source being freely available and shareable. But if you're making millions of dollars a year, I think it's only fair to give some money to the people making your profit possible.
That is my point. Normal people are not downloading any OS and installing it on their computers. They are going to the local big box store or online store and buying a computer and using whatever that OS is preinstalled. In my neck of the woods those options are Windows, OSX and Chrome OS. There is no Linux computers at your local big box store. And I am sure you could find a Linux computer online if you specifically searched for it but Amazon is going to put the Linux computer on page 500 if you search for "Laptop"
Yeah the Steam Deck is the only thing the came to my mind that mainstream people would get that would have Linux pre-installed. However I can't imagine it is the steam deck is selling anywhere near the numbers to what Chrome OS computers are selling and also these numbers are based on web browsing. Are people using their steam deck to browse the web? I have a Steam Deck and yes Gaming is amazing on it however if I am being honest the desktop experience is terrible I don't know how they manage to make the on screen keyboard suck so bad. I would prefer browsing the web on my phone over the Steam Deck. The only way I would browse the web on the Steam Deck is if it was fully setup with a Mouse and Keyboard and External monitor.
Granted this is all just based of my single experience and small corner of the world view point. Maybe Linux is poping off in other parts of the world like in India with a huge population base.
Oh no, I got you. I was kind of looking at if from another angle.
You normally can't buy a machine with desktop Linux pre-installed, but you can with ChromeOS. Despite that, Linux has a bigger market share. I think part of the reason why is specifically because ChromeOS is so limited and intrinsically tied to Google, that people who do things like install new OSes avoid it like the plague. Google's push to satisfiy shareholders and build walled gardens is the reason their desktop OS isn't being used.
I've installed Android in virtual machines and played with x86 builds on bare metal. I've installed Linux on Macbooks, desktops, servers, and handhelds. I've tried out BSD on network shares and other little devices. I've never done anything like that with ChromeOS. It holds zero appeal to me, despite being easily purchasable at a retail store.
The statistics seem to be based on User Agent. A lot of people"fake" their user agent to avoid fingerprinting and other things.
I myself used to do it when I wanted to download Windows 10 ISO from Microsoft. If your UA said anything Windows you were forced to use download Microsoft USB Tool. If it said Linux you got a direct link to the ISO.
Isn't chrome os more or less US specific? Yes, I could buy a laptop with chrome os in central Europe if I looked for it, but is it widespread? Absolutely not. I don't know single person that have (or had) one.
That I don't know, I just know my territory in the US they are in every store that carries laptops.
I believe I have also seen them in Canada as well.
Linux has much better hardware support overall than Windows.
Yeah linux runs on 30+ year old hardware
And brand new $12k CPUs
I think I saw somewhere that Windows still has scheduled bugs with high core count CPUs so you can legitimately get better performance from Linux because the scheduler has already been optimized for high core count servers
Sure but at least from my experience if the desktop hardware doesn't support Windows we are already talking about a very obscure type of hardware that isn't going to be mass deployed to the general public that would affect this user agent statistic.
The thing with Windows is that you are dependent on the Manufacture to make drivers for the device. Windows supports nothing out of the box. You can see this if you install Windows stock on a device with no internet. Granted that's very uncommon but depending on the manufacture for support is a mixed bag sometimes.
Sure but that's a really really narrow scope. Hardware is designed to work with Windows first. It's unfortunate but it is what it is and saying hardware support is bad on windows is misleading.
I just know from experience with obscure hardware. You can't run Windows on your router and Windows 11 doesn't support serial connections.
Yeah, why isnβt ChromeOS rolled into Linux?
I know technically ChromeOS is running Linux under the hood but it has been so bastardized by Google that it looses the spirit of Linux that it shouldn't be consider the same thing. At least in my opinion.
Iβm not sure about that. Android isnβt Linux for those reasons, but ChromeOS is much, much closer to a regular GNU/Linux distro. Theyβre even switching to Wayland from what Iβve heard. π
I don't know but it might be inextricably linked to Googles content servers or reliant on services in such a way that it can't simply be stripped of the telemetry in the way VSCodium is for example.
ChromeOS uses a custom display server for the moment, but Chrome + is pretty similar. π€·π½ββοΈ
ChromeOS is moving to Wayland as their display server, to make it even more of a standard Linux install.
But is the desktop really the most relevant measurement? Wouldn't it be more relevant to talk about "primary" devices? When I grew up, the desktop was what people used to connect with Internet and everything that comes with that. Hence, Linux on the desktop seemed to be relevant. Now, that is still relevant in relation to work and gaming, but for general use people use other devices. So instead of "on the desktop" I think we should talk about "for work", "for gaming" and "for programming".
Exactly.
As usual, the geeks in this forum are completely out of touch with reality. I say that as a Linux user of decades.
Desktop stats matter less than ever because ordinary people do not buy desktop computers any more and will do so even less in the future.
But in this context, desktop includes laptops. People still buy those.
Less and less. At this point most internet users in the world have never been near a general-purpose computer of any kind.
The Linux phone has hit 0.01% oooof
I'm calling to arms linux desktop users to dip their toes into this space as we need all the support we can get
Well... in 2022, linux wasn't even categorized on mobile, and was grouped into "others". Now its marketshare is relevant enough to have its own category. It's something.
Thatβs actually a nice silver lining ;)
As much as I'd like to use a Linux phone, it's simply not feasible for almost everybody at the moment.
What do people user their phone for?
Linux phones, at the moment, are way behind Android/iOS in terms of security and, since privacy requires security, also in privacy.
Even stock Android has so many more security features, that it's not even close. Verified boot, exploit mitigation, (working) app sandboxing and so on. Not even speaking of specialized projects like GrapheneOS.
Even if the app ecosystem was there and the OS mature, I'd never run my banking through a Linux phone at the moment.
Also its just hostile hardware. I can run Linux on any PC I own. Only a few phones support installing it and have bad drivers even if.
Yes, but in fairness: The same is true for iOS or GrapeneOS, though that's for valid reasons.
year of the linux desktop!!!!
I just built a new PC but I've still been booting up my old laptop from time to time to retrieve files/settings/etc. I'm going to take credit for this.
How do they know the percentage, does Linux send info back to somewhere?
your browser tells websites what os youre using
Oh yeah, another thing I've to do is find a browser that doesn't.
librewolf
https://www.whatismybrowser.com/guides/how-to-change-your-user-agent/firefox
Yeah, I already use Firefox and the standard add ons, but I wasn't sure if it was one that gave out user data to websites.
by default it does not randomize the user agent string, because that would make some websites, (eg: download pages) behave weird
I moved back to Windows for the games years ago. But I'm never going to install a copy of Windows 11 because fuck that shit, and the next time I move to Linux, I suspect games won't be a problem.
Have they fixed Discord streaming yet?
Haven't had any troubles screensharing on wayland, so I guess?
I don't know if it's still needed or if discord updates to a newer version of electron that supports Wayland.
This should help if you need to support screen capture in x11 apps. XWayland video bridge
From Linux, I've screen-shared my desktop in the web application for some years without troubles. Not even need to install the app.
I question the methodology here. The same site lists Linux desktop share at 2% in my country specifically. It feels like if it was that high youβd see it on peopleβs laptops more in coffee shops and what notβ¦ but Iβve yet to see a single other person using Linux on the desktop.
I know most of that 4% is in India⦠but still feels like it should be more ubiquitous if the number is that high.
With 2%, you would roughly find someone using linux for every 50 computers you stumble upon. Maybe it's not as far off as you imagine. However, like someone already mentioned, the distribution isn't homogenous, and maybe there are concentrations of linux computers in some universities, businesses, etc.
Or maybe linux users don't go out as often as the average person, so you never get the chance to see them in coffee shops lol. If the other linux users are like me, that's exactly the case...
2% is still very low, and thats not necessarily spread evenly throughout different areas/communities.
To see where we're at with the linux phone https://alexandrite.app/lemmy.ca/post/16514606.
Iβve got LXCβs running on my Proxmox host and been playing or working with Linux for 25 years, but on my desktop Iβve always run Windows. Linux is great right up until it isnβt and then I spend more time than Iβd like troubleshooting it. On my desktop I just want things to work and Windows does that. I hate the bloatware, spyware and the nagging to switch to Edge, but everything I run, runs, including games with anti-cheat. Iβm sure I could get Linux to a similar state, but it would take a lot more effort.
The freedom of choice is wonderful, isnt it ? We are all free, to make our own decisions, as free as to live with the consequencies out of that^^
I've never understood how this is good for Linux. Why is having more users so important?
More users means there is more interest from private companies to reach these users and to port their software/products to Linux. Ie Adobe, Games, AutoCAD Suit, etc.
But why do we want more proprietary software running on Linux? Wouldn't we be recreating the same situation that Windows has?
Edit: Why downvote me instead of replying with a reason why I'm "wrong" or discussing further? Is Lemmy turning into Reddit already?
There's also more chances of FOSS being developed for Linux if more people use it. FOSS is better the more popular it gets.
This seems like wishful thinking to me. Is there any data that supports that with more users comes more FOSS developers?
I'm not sure you need data to understand that if more people use a product, there's a greater chance someone will develop FOSS for it, as FOSS developers tend to also be users.
Bigger platforms attract more devs.
The BSDs donβt have the dev resources of Linux simply because Linux has a much larger install base.
Really?
I don't think OpenBSD is as funded as Debian but it could maintain software like OpenSSH (even the portable version for Linux and Windows); LibreSSL (still not much used, but funded because of this), OpenSMTPD.
But OpenBSD can maintain its ports which in my opinion is relatively large (no update for -release, sorry :) ). And base. For so many hardware platform. Even VAX until 6.9
Yeah, really. OpenBSD punches above its weight. There are many things they would like todo, but donβt have the resources.
You're right, there's downsides for the FOSS community, but it's much better for many individuals.
Usability, accessibility and privacy for a user is better when any proprietary software, that they cannot avoid, can at least run relatively sandboxed inside an OS they have control over.
Good point, but thankfully, an open OS mitigates these issues a great deal.
Proprietary software is one of the last anchors holding people to Windows or macOS.
Ideally, people would switch to FOSS alternatives on a FOSS OS, but proprietary software on top of a FOSS OS is better than FOSS software on a proprietary OS.
Also, people are going to charge for software in some form or fashion. The economic model would need to change in order to allow people to develop software without any economic motives.
The difference is that, with a base FOSS OS, you're not locked in to an flavor you don't like. Dislike the way Ubuntu is headed? Switch to Debian, Pop, or Mint and use the same exact programs you're used to. If you dislike Windows 11, you've only got a few years before you're forced to switch to it. Makes it much easier for them to force shitty decisions.
More adoption of Linux also means more incentive for FOSS projects to support it. Yes, it also means more proprietary software, but the truth is that most people don't care what kind of software they use as long as it works for them. At least Linux can't become beholden to the demands of that software.
People don't like frequently dual-booting or switching operating systems. If someone needs a specific program for work, and that program only works on windows, chances are they will only use windows.
Many people have to use proprietary software at work, which means most computers for work have to run windows. If linux can get enough marketshare to get support for the necessary programs that people have to use, that will free them up to not use windows at all.
Because it's what reality looks like right now. Everything FOSS would be ideal, but it's probably not going to happen for a looooong time. In the meantime more software is always good, and it also means more FOSS software you can choose as an alternative.
No, because the base OS is still open, so you have choices that you don't have under Windows.
Tbh it sounds a bit disingenuous when you say that you don't understand such a basic thing. It should be pretty obvious that more users means more interest from devs+companies and more support for the platform.
You've never understood how support works? It doesn't matter that it's harder to find apps that work on Linux than windows and Mac? It matters less to me than most people but it definitely still matters
I would certainly benefit if more hardware supported Linux out-of-the-box.
Many people will benefit if that one key application they need is supported on Linux.
We all benefit from the paid developers working on Linux. The number of such people are linked to the profitability of Linux for companies which is a function of popularity.
Your point is a very important one. The numbers have to come up so that manufacturers notice. It might make the difference in a laptop designer choosing a well-Linux-supported wifi chip, instead of a shitty, closed chipset like Broadcom. When the price-per-unit difference is pennies, knowing that you're potentially losing some thousands of customers in exchange for saving a few cents per unit can make the difference in how you choose.
It also matters in user choice in the workplace. The more normalized Linux is, the more likely there will be skills in IT support, more mass-management tools, and more willingness to allow employees to choose their OS.
But where it really matters is in standards. Diversity puts pressure on software developers to use standardized and open data exchange standards. I can't emphasize enough how important diversity in OSes is to driving creation of, and conformance to, standards, and how much of an anathema to standards monocultures are.
Even within OSS this is true: github and git have become monocultures; they aren't standards, they're tools developers are forced to use if they want to interact with the wider development world in any meaningful way. They're not bad; git became dominant largely because github used to be so fantastically better than anything else available at the time; but now, their very dominance stiffles diversity and innovation. Want to try the rather exciting pijul, the patch-based spiritual successor to darcs? Fuck you, because you won't be able to collaborate with anyone, and you repos won't work with any proglang module systems like cargo or Go modules, because it isn't git[1]. Monocultures are bad, whether they're evil corporation software, or FOSS.
Higher Linux use increases diversity, encourages data format standards, and creates a healthier ecosystem. That's why these numbers are important.
[1] Go and Rust's cargo support more VCSes than git, but they could easily not, and I'm sure the maintainer's of the vcs code wish they could drop support for some of the long tails - and everything that isn't git is on the long tail at this point. There are attempts at creating some standards around this; ActivityPub has tossed around ideas, forgefriends has been trying for a breakthrough for years - none of them address the root issue of how tools can access sourcecode efficiently in a way abstracted from the underlying vcs. Any such tool currently must have some bespoke code to speak the network language of the vcs, for every vcs. And since git is the most popular, when faced with the daunting task of supporting N vcses, when N-1 of them are in toto used by a small percent of users, it's just easier to support only git.
Cool. Then many more people would switch from Linux to BSDs instead. Which is better.
Of course only correct selection is TempleOS.
I don't think its power is comparable to research unix :)
Dumb question but what's a BSD? What's the difference?
It's another libre operating system that is not GNU/linux
wjy would it be better
Its more of a niche. You probably won't have the huge support you have on gnu/Linux nowadays
"gnu/Linux nowadays" is unusable on old hardware (except distros like Alpine) I think?
There are a bunch of distros focused on old hardware compatibility. I often install Linux on 32 bit laptops from around 2008 and they work perfectly
It's not necessarily better, some things are a personal preference. Though some might be able to list some technical pros and cons.
Some things I appreciate are:
That research is much easier than figuring out what is computer's "stack" without using my first language!
Dude I'm a beginner struggling to learn Linux because there are so many options, so few good explanations, and people like you only want to patronize me
I just want a tldr
What a lack of documentation. On BSDs we didn't suffer that.
BSD is an operating system. It diverged into FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD.
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